Maurice Hurst

[pbmax]

Matt Miller @nfldraftscout
What I gathered from teams is that they're asking: "If our doctors didn't pass him, and the Combine doctors didn't pass him, and we know his condition—how did anyone pass him?"

Hurst had two doctors from Harvard tell teams he could play safely after the Combine docs found a heart condition. Michigan cleared him but acknowledged he had a heart condition.

Similar findings have not stopped Star Lotulelei's career. But his diagnosis was later retracted by MRI. Nick Fairley had a heart condition diagnosed at the Combine, but that diagnosis has stuck and he appears to be out of football because of it.

But Miller has it from several teams that Hurst was not cleared medically to be drafted. McShay had the same info. Raiders and Hurst seem to be gambling it will be fine and they will catch it before a larger problem develops.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/4/28/17294678/maurice-hurst-2018-nfl-draft-fell-medical-oakland-raiders

[mraynrand]

Raiders and Hurst seem to be gambling it will be fine and they will catch it before a larger problem develops.

Maurice Hearse?

[esoxx]

Maurice Hearse?

touche'

[Freak Out]

So why not throw a pick at him in round 4-5? What round did we draft a punter?

[pbmax]

So why not throw a pick at him in round 4-5? What round did we draft a punter?

Without knowing the exact condition (and assuming its not a false positive like Star Lotulelei), the problem is exactly what the risk is for fatality.

If its Nick Fairley and he just suffers some symptoms after a few years, has to drop out of practice and be observed for a few days, its probably worth a higher pick.

But if the sources aren't over-reacting, it seems like the downside could also be that he just drops dead on you. No way to know the percentages. But this comes down to team owners and GMs, some are willing to take that risk, some would not. Given some of the almost hysterical quotes, some seem to believe the risk is high.

Would love to know what his doctor's thought.

[mraynrand]

Would love to know what his doctors thought.

I wonder what he's thinking. Anyone with a serious heart condition kinda lives waiting for that other shoe to drop...

[texaspackerbacker]

Probably he's thinking to make as many million as he can before that shoe drops.

[pbmax]

I wonder what he's thinking. Anyone with a serious heart condition kinda lives waiting for that other shoe to drop...

Might be underestimating the consideration, but my guess would be that he believes the best version of the prognosis and the downside risk is the same as driving around: anyone could go at any time.

Really curious about the 2nd/3rd opinion. Not stunned at all that Michigan's Doctors cleared him again, would look foolish not to.

Specialties matter here: if it was team Docs, I might consider specialists first. Not sure I trust the Jet's urologist to be up to speed on heart conditions other than generalized panic.

[texaspackerbacker]

"Might be underestimating the consideration" ....... Does anybody not think the guy is literally doctor shopping for specialists who say he can play? And some of you guys get all weird about it when I minimize the concussion thing, which is much less of a threat than a heart condition like this would be.

Many many millions to play a fun game - that's the bottom line, and that trumps a lot of things, including risk perceived by a bunch of nervous nellie outsiders.

[pbmax]

"Might be underestimating the consideration" ....... Does anybody not think the guy is literally doctor shopping for specialists who say he can play? And some of you guys get all weird about it when I minimize the concussion thing, which is much less of a threat than a heart condition like this would be.

Many many millions to play a fun game - that's the bottom line, and that trumps a lot of things, including risk perceived by a bunch of nervous nellie outsiders.

So why did Chris Borland leave the game? He had to return money.

Your considerations of motive are wildly inconsistent. In another thread Rodgers was going to take less money because Super Bowl.

[mraynrand]

And some of you guys get all weird about it when I minimize the concussion thing, which is much less of a threat than a heart condition like this would be.

I don't 'get weird' because of the difference in perceived threat, I 'get weird' because you operate from a position of total ignorance yet speak as though you are an authority.

[texaspackerbacker]

So why did Chris Borland leave the game? He had to return money.

Your considerations of motive are wildly inconsistent. In another thread Rodgers was going to take less money because Super Bowl.

It's just a little bit different situation - Rodgers, who's filthy rich already and soon to be more so, and Hurst who hasn't made any NFL money yet. I suppose Borland did have to return the money for years he didn't play plus a proration of his bonus. He still made enough millions before quitting to be more than set for life by regular people's standards. Borland was also the extremely rare exception - either getting scared from symptoms already experienced or believing the "science" crap being put out. I would suggest the huge majority of players either don't believe it or don't care.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't 'get weird' because of the difference in perceived threat, I 'get weird' because you operate from a position of total ignorance yet speak as though you are an authority.

No, Rand, I'm just being skeptical and SUGGESTING that maybe that "science" crap could be wrong or exaggerated or (heaven forbid) agenda-driven. You and some others, on the other hand, swallow any silliness you read that purports to be "science" and spew it back like it's gospel. The global warming crap is in the same category as the concussion crap, and I assume you have the good sense not to believe that - or do you?

Anyway, the "weird" thing was more aimed at Zool than you.

[call_me_ishmael]

It's just a little bit different situation - Rodgers, who's filthy rich already and soon to be more so, and Hurst who hasn't made any NFL money yet. I suppose Borland did have to return the money for years he didn't play plus a proration of his bonus. He still made enough millions before quitting to be more than set for life by regular people's standards. Borland was also the extremely rare exception - either getting scared from symptoms already experienced or believing the "science" crap being put out. I would suggest the huge majority of players either don't believe it or don't care.

I don't think he came close to making millions, more like ~700K which after taxes in Cali is not that much. That's enough to take a couple years off of work or something though. He'll have no problems finding a job and making plenty of money though.

[mraynrand]

No, Rand, I'm just being skeptical and SUGGESTING that maybe that "science" crap could be wrong or exaggerated or (heaven forbid) agenda-driven.

"Besides, this whole concussion kerfuffle is grossly overrated" is what you stated with zero facts to back it.

[mraynrand]

You and some others, on the other hand, swallow any silliness you read that purports to be "science" and spew it back like it's gospel. .

I don't think so. Again, you've made a declarative statement that differs with plain fact. You can revisit the thread where I assessed the peer reviewed literature. If you like, you can assess those sources and/or present your own sources. That's kind of how science (with no quotation marks) works.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't think he came close to making millions, more like ~700K which after taxes in Cali is not that much. That's enough to take a couple years off of work or something though. He'll have no problems finding a job and making plenty of money though.

If you really make $700k a year, congrats, but I'm here to tell ya, you're pretty far removed from "regular people" - even in California. And what does Cali have to do with it? You don't live there, do you? And Borland might, but I think more likely would live in Wisconsin or Ohio.

[texaspackerbacker]

"Besides, this whole concussion kerfuffle is grossly overrated" is what you stated with zero facts to back it.

Yes, that's what I'm SUGGESTING. What percentage of NFL players - or college or high school for that matter - suffer any significant long term problems? I would suggest the percent is small enough to qualify as "grossly overrated", especially considering the huge deal that a lot of whiners make over it.

Are you not willing to consider that just maybe some people (I'd say what they are politically, but then we might have to go to FYI hahahaha) might have an agenda to deprive Americans of our magnificent enjoyment of the NFL, and they might just be using the concussion crap to advance that agenda.

[mraynrand]

Yes, that's what I'm SUGGESTING. What percentage of NFL players - or college or high school for that matter - suffer any significant long term problems? I would suggest the percent is small enough to qualify as "grossly overrated", especially considering the huge deal that a lot of whiners make over it.

If only there were some way to find these things out

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, some unbiased way would be nice.

The vagueness of it itself should tell you something.

[mraynrand]

Yeah, some unbiased way would be nice.

The vagueness of it itself should tell you something.

:roll:

[texaspackerbacker]

ok, I guess it doesn't tell you something hahahahaha. If there is no clear cut differentiation to identify what "suffering significant long term problems" from concussions is or is not, then maybe people are exaggerating or overrating the problem.

[pbmax]

It's just a little bit different situation - Rodgers, who's filthy rich already and soon to be more so, and Hurst who hasn't made any NFL money yet. I suppose Borland did have to return the money for years he didn't play plus a proration of his bonus. He still made enough millions before quitting to be more than set for life by regular people's standards. Borland was also the extremely rare exception - either getting scared from symptoms already experienced or believing the "science" crap being put out. I would suggest the huge majority of players either don't believe it or don't care.

Of course he would like a million or two. I bet its a strong preference. But that doesn't tell us he was Doctor shopping. If we knew who the Docs actually were, we'd know much more than just random speculation.

The only thing I do know is that the Michigan docs are very eager to see him succeed. Its quite a boon business not being Michigan State right now.

[Zool]

ok, I guess it doesn't tell you something hahahahaha. If there is no clear cut differentiation to identify what "suffering significant long term problems" from concussions is or is not, then maybe people are exaggerating or overrating the problem.

You’re extensive research on the subject has me sold. Never mind the brain injury medicine doctors who write papers on the subject of head injuries. Their findings are in the early stages, but you’ve “trumped” them all with your vast understanding of the human body. How lucky we are to have such a breadth of genius at our disposal. Is there any subject in which you aren’t an expert?