Time to talk Packer football: Defensive Line

[bobblehead]

So I was reading around the web, mentally checking out, but I still eventually noticed we seem to have a glut of talent on the DL.

Studs: Mike Daniels, Kenny Clark
New hotness: Muhammad Wilkerson
Fan Favorite: Dean Lowery
Breakout Hopeful: Montravius Adams
Rookie Hopeful: James Looney

Thats a pretty damn hot list for a team running a 3-4. It leaves almost no room for undrafted guys. I was disappointed we didn't resign Quinton Dial, but not so much after seeing that list. I'll put that list against any 3-4 team in football to be honest.

The defense gives us a lot of reason to be optimistic with the additions at CB as well. Things could really turn around there. Of course, Mathews and Perry will both miss time so we still have a problem with pass rush which is the most important aspect of a defense so....

[Fritz]

If Pettine can be the kind of coach to adapt his system to the strengths and weaknesses of the personnel, this could work.

[pbmax]

I am hopeful despite the questions at OLB. Its a great group even without Dial, but Wilkerson covers that with the promise of more pass rush.

[texaspackerbacker]

Of all the position groups, D Line would seem to make the least difference in overall D performance. Pettine's job is to this Packer strength into an unusually significant difference maker in games. I'm not sure how he would go about that, but hopefully he can find a way.

[run pMc]

Of all the position groups, D Line would seem to make the least difference in overall D performance. Pettine's job is to this Packer strength into an unusually significant difference maker in games. I'm not sure how he would go about that, but hopefully he can find a way.

Are you speaking of teams that primarily run 3-4? Minnesota has a pretty good D line with Joseph, Griffin, and Hunter...I'd say they make a difference in the overall D's performance.

[texaspackerbacker]

Probably more so with 3-4 teams, but even with 4-3 teams, you can get by with some degree of weakness - less so than at DB or LB. The question is, can Pettine put something together to make our strength there make a big enough difference in our favor?

[RashanGary]

If Daniels has another impactful season
If Clark takes another step forward
If Lowry takes another step forward
If Wilkerson is close to top form.....

Yeah, there’s a chance that group is special. Clark is the guy I’m most excited for. 315 lb guys with his quickness and power are very rare. He’s just growing into his body and into being NFL savvy in there. He could be the perfect compliment to one more year of Daniels prime.

[Bretsky]

So I was reading around the web, mentally checking out, but I still eventually noticed we seem to have a glut of talent on the DL.

Studs: Mike Daniels, Kenny Clark
New hotness: Muhammad Wilkerson
Fan Favorite: Dean Lowery
Breakout Hopeful: Montravius Adams
Rookie Hopeful: James Looney

Thats a pretty damn hot list for a team running a 3-4. It leaves almost no room for undrafted guys. I was disappointed we didn't resign Quinton Dial, but not so much after seeing that list. I'll put that list against any 3-4 team in football to be honest.

The defense gives us a lot of reason to be optimistic with the additions at CB as well. Things could really turn around there. Of course, Mathews and Perry will both miss time so we still have a problem with pass rush which is the most important aspect of a defense so....


Excited about Clark, Daniels, and Wilkenson

BUT

Is there any reason to have Montravius Adams on a list for optimism ?

Did he make a play last year ? Heck, did he even play ?

[woodbuck27]

Excited about Clark, Daniels, and Wilkenson

BUT

Is there any reason to have Montravius Adams on a list for optimism ?

Did he make a play last year ? Heck, did he even play ?

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geKWJCykJbyxAA_dQXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTEydGs1Y2Z vBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjUxNTNfMQRzZWMDc2M-/RV=2/RE=1531132610/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fca.sports.yahoo.com%2fnfl%2fplayer s%2f30206/RK=2/RS=jXzQj3JnqYbscvl9rk6YxNPgYgo-

https://www.packers.com/team/players-roster/montravius-adams/

He made just ONE (1) Tackle in the 2017 Season and after that Zippo.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is there any reason to have Montravius Adams on a list for optimism ?

Did he make a play last year ? Heck, did he even play ?

Why not? Dude got a stress fracture in his foot the second day of training camp last year. He was a relatively high draft pick (3rd round), and his teammates had high hopes for him.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/07/31/foot-injury-sideline-packers-dl-montravius-adams-weeks/524761001/


But based on what teammates said Monday about the talent Adams possesses and the progress he has made, the reported stress fracture in his foot will put a halt to a very promising summer project.

“His pass-rush moves are ridiculous,” veteran defensive lineman Ricky Jean Francois said. “I thought it would take him a while to adjust to the NFL and have to change from college moves to NFL moves, but I think he already adjusted...

“There’s no question in my mind he’s going to be a great player in this league,” said nose tackle Kenny Clark, a first-round pick in 2016. “The main thing I can say about ‘Mon’ is that he’s explosive. When he gets off the ball and does it right, there’s nobody who can stop him off the ball.

“Just the first two days of practice, his explosiveness, how he gets upfield, he looked real good.”

[Zool]

Plus the old adage, interior DL rarely come into the NFL and have an instant impact.

Plus it's the off season, what else do we have but optimism?

[pbmax]

Plus the old adage, interior DL rarely come into the NFL and have an instant impact.

Plus it's the off season, what else do we have but optimism?

Recreational drug use apparently.

[wist43]

I have hope for Adams... think he has potential. Big guys can be hard to project though, b/c it's far too easy for them to simply pitch a tent next to the dinner table and call it a paycheck.

I have no hope for Beigel or Fackrell, would like to see Ryan moved off the roster, and think Burks is so raw that he will be nothing but a negative if he's forced on to the field at all this year.

Overall, the Linebacker situation is a huge mess.

------------------------------------

Because LB is such a mess, Pettine will be forced to rely heavily on the DL for pass rush - which is a good thing given our personnel. Getting rid of Capers and the 2-4 will make us instantly better.

Overall I'm encouraged by the team's direction.

[Tony Oday]

A good line eats blockers and let's LBs attack the line.

[wist43]

A good line eats blockers and let's LBs attack the line.

Yes, in a 3-4... and the presumption is that the strength of your defense is your LB's. The Packers never got that memo.

Our DL is leagues better than our LB'S; hence, we need to use them accordingly.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, even a mediocre D Line eats blockers - you need the excellent LBs to take advantage. The question is, what do you do when the D Line is good and the LBs are mediocre? If Pettine is a real genius of a D Coordinator, maybe he can figure out a way to maximize things.

[pbmax]

A good line eats blockers and let's LBs attack the line.

Not always. Teams can one gap and expect the line to make plays. There has been a lot of this talk in GB since Pettine came on board.

But it is unusual, for reasons that aren't always clear, that teams one gap all the time across the board. The Vikings with Doleman and Millard used to and you could see games with them that it wasn't working. I suspect a pure one gap team would get burned by misdirection, read option and the like. Think about Clay Matthews in the first few games against Kaepernick.

Belichick who runs a base 4-3 now, one gaps to one side and two gaps the other. There are either 8 or 10 gaps to cover (depends on if you count 2 or 3 gaps wide of the tackle or TE) and if some lineman can 2 gap, you can have more players reacting to the ball.

The talk all of offseason is that at least one player (Daniels) will be playing less two gap. But Trgovac always cautioned about reporting that suggested Capers 2 gapped everyone on most plays. I am not sure the difference will be that noticeable. We'll see.

[bobblehead]

Plus it's the off season, what else do we have but optimism?

Mainly this. Add in his draft status and I suspect he is given every chance to succeed before any undrafted guys.

As for the one gap scheming it works great when you get across the line penetration. Problems arise when you get a good OL and a back that can one cut with great vision.

[Upnorth]

Rookie Hopeful: James Looney


I thought he suffered from T-rex disease. Short stubby little arms?

[smuggler]

That's what they said about Dean Lowry. You have to remember that 'short' arms on a guy who's 6'6" are still pretty damn long.

[Fritz]

That's what they said about Dean Lowry. You have to remember that 'short' arms on a guy who's 6'6" are still pretty damn long.

Not on Dean Lowry they're not!

[Upnorth]

This football outsiders article seems appropriate for this topic.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/pressure-number-pass-rushers-2017

The only area we are not in the bottom third of pass rush productivity is when we sent 3 (assuming you see dvoa as a fair representation of efficiency)

[wist43]

This football outsiders article seems appropriate for this topic.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/pressure-number-pass-rushers-2017

The only area we are not in the bottom third of pass rush productivity is when we sent 3 (assuming you see dvoa as a fair representation of efficiency)

I think you have to throw everything that was produced by Capers out the window... He had been bad for years in Green Bay, but the last couple of years he was an unmitigated disaster.

We've got to evaluate everyone anew.

[Upnorth]

I think you have to throw everything that was produced by Capers out the window... He had been bad for years in Green Bay, but the last couple of years he was an unmitigated disaster.

We've got to evaluate everyone anew.

So you are drinking the Pettine koolaid?

[bobblehead]

Not on Dean Lowry they're not!

I heard the guy can't even wash his junk in the shower without a special loofah on a stick.

[Upnorth]

I heard the guy can't even wash his junk in the shower without a special loofah on a stick.

I heard he has to climb down a ladder to tie his own shoeshttps://78.media.tumblr.com/d974e589c21f3be02887355f5d1affb6/tumblr_o16swnN3di1sovvazo1_500.jpg

[run pMc]

If you go back and look at the 2010 run, you can see the DL played a big role -- Jenkins and Raji were disruptive, and Pickett/Green provided contributions as well. From what I saw, Jenkins got doubled a lot and still managed to pressure the QB. It helped that Matthews was also a terror -- he was quicker (and lighter looking) than he is now. The secondary had Peprah running the show back there, and it seems that with some of the injuries they had they dumbed things down but ran it very well (read: no communication errors, people knew their assignments and did them) and also got pretty lucky with fumbles, etc.

I agree the LBs aren't what they were (Walden/Zombo, Bishop, Hawk, Matthews) but think the DL could pick up some of that slack, and with improved secondary play at least field a respectable defense that gets off the field on 3rd down.

[pbmax]

I think you have to throw everything that was produced by Capers out the window... He had been bad for years in Green Bay, but the last couple of years he was an unmitigated disaster.

We've got to evaluate everyone anew.

So are we approaching this from the Great Man historical approach (as in Capers was not that man) or an actor-network theory approach, where everything he touched became incompetent.

[Cheesehead Craig]

So you are drinking the Pettine koolaid?

I am.

[mraynrand]

So are we approaching this from the Great Man historical approach (as in Capers was not that man) or an actor-network theory approach, where everything he touched became incompetent.

yes

[pbmax]

yes

Its good to know where we stand.

Replacing Capers will be worth 5.7 points per game if NFL.com's grades have any basis in reality! *


* We are subtracting 1.17 points per game (7.17 - 6.00) from the baseline prediction (+ 6.87 points of improvement) because of the obvious draft mistake of taking Jaire Alexander instead of Brother Edmunds.

[pbmax]

Its good to know where we stand.

Replacing Capers will be worth 5.7 points per game if NFL.com's grades have any basis in reality! *


* We are subtracting 1.17 points per game (7.17 - 6.00) from the baseline prediction (+ 6.87 points of improvement) because of the obvious draft mistake of taking Jaire Alexander instead of Brother Edmunds.

Next we need to calculate the secondary effect that Caper's insidious effect had on the offense and factor that into our preseason predictions. By the time we are done, Packers might win 24 games this year.

[texaspackerbacker]

I had sworn off defending Capers, since he's gone and irrelevant now anyway, but it is annoying and irritating to me every time I read wrongheaded shit spewed on the guy. For most, maybe all of his tenure in Green Bay, Capers' scheming and general competence as a D Coordinator was the only thing that kept the Packers D from being a LOT worse than it was. Thanks again for the personnel, Ted.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for a fresh start with Pettine, but in a lot of ways, he should, and I think will continue Capers' methods and schemes.

[Joemailman]

Next we need to calculate the secondary effect that Caper's insidious effect had on the offense and factor that into our preseason predictions. By the time we are done, Packers might win 24 games this year.

24 might be a stretch. But James Jones is all in on 16-0. https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/James-Jones-predicts-Green-Bay-Packers-will-finish-2018-season-16-0-119727503/

[wist43]

So are we approaching this from the Great Man historical approach (as in Capers was not that man) or an actor-network theory approach, where everything he touched became incompetent.

Yes :cnf:

[wist43]

So you are drinking the Pettine koolaid?

Not nearly as familiar with him as I was with Capers... I knew Capers had the potential for disaster, at this point I'm cautiously optimistic about Pettine.

[mraynrand]

24 might be a stretch. But James Jones is all in on 16-0. https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/James-Jones-predicts-Green-Bay-Packers-will-finish-2018-season-16-0-119727503/

Packers have a shot at 11 wins. Best scenario is they get better as season progresses with three unexpected major advances from the ranks. Most likely scenario is they are pretty marginal all around with no pass rush and Rodgers making silk purse out of sows ear on offense for 9-10 wins and Divisional exit.

[Fritz]

I heard the guy can't even wash his junk in the shower without a special loofah on a stick.

If he was a REAL defensive lineman he wouldn't wash his junk at all.

[texaspackerbacker]

Packers have a shot at 11 wins. Best scenario is they get better as season progresses with three unexpected major advances from the ranks. Most likely scenario is they are pretty marginal all around with no pass rush and Rodgers making silk purse out of sows ear on offense for 9-10 wins and Divisional exit.

11 is the absolute low end if Rodgers stays healthy. They were a 12 win or more team in past years with him playing the whole season. With the high probability of better D as well as better RBs, the sky is the limit. When the prediction thread comes out, I think I'm actually picking 16-0 this year.

[smuggler]

I don't see worse than 11 wins is Rodgers is healthy all year, as texas said.

[Upnorth]

Packers have a shot at 11 wins. Best scenario is they get better as season progresses with three unexpected major advances from the ranks. Most likely scenario is they are pretty marginal all around with no pass rush and Rodgers making silk purse out of sows ear on offense for 9-10 wins and Divisional exit.

Blasphemer!! We have Rodgers back, plus now that Wilkerson is back with Pettine he will once again become a near unstoppable force! Further, what other team added 3 potential HOF'ers to the wr corps? Plus our 2 new TE, and the blessings of Jones getting a 2 week vacation so he will be fresh in playoffs. I say 16-0 (perhaps 15-0-1 with a tie against NE)

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha Throwing sarcasm at Rand, the master of sarcasm, huh, Upnorth?

I take everything you say as gospel - and that's no sarcasm.

[Upnorth]

hahahahaha Throwing sarcasm at Rand, the master of sarcasm, huh, Upnorth?

I take everything you say as gospel - and that's no sarcasm.

If you squint your eyes and hold your screen at just the right angle everything I typed makes perfect sense,

[texaspackerbacker]

I got eyes wide open, and it looks just fine hahahahahaha.

[bobblehead]

Excited about Clark, Daniels, and Wilkenson

BUT

Is there any reason to have Montravius Adams on a list for optimism ?

Did he make a play last year ? Heck, did he even play ?

Bretsky, Mount Adams has been pretty good in games and camp. You optimistic yet?

[call_me_ishmael]

My bold prediction is Adams and Clark are the two best players on the defense this year.

[texaspackerbacker]

Adams has looked good, but mostly against 2nd teamers; Wilkerson has pretty much stunk, but mostly against first string O Lines. Hopefully Adams' goodness is real and Wilkerson's badness is just going through the motions, and he will shape up when the games count. I'm not sure I'm too optimistic about that, though.

I still like upnorth's 16-0 prediction, though.

[mraynrand]

Mt. Adams is a young guy who has to prove himself. Wilky is an old hand who isn't gonna put out for preseason. He's made a few plays here and there to show he can play. I expect him to mostly dog it. Problem is that he could actually suck. See how he plays in the first quarter Friday. That will tell you a lot (dress rehearsal).

[mraynrand]

I still like upnorth's 16-0 prediction, though.

Who doesn't like it? But the reality is closer to them starting out 4-4.