Bears get Mack

[Vincenzo]

Ouch!

"The #Bears have permission to negotiate a deal with star Khalil Mack, and that has been ongoing since last night. They are the one team willing to go where the #Raiders needed them to go. This is happening."
Schefter

[pittstang5]

Ouch!

"The #Bears have permission to negotiate a deal with star Khalil Mack, and that has been ongoing since last night. They are the one team willing to go where the #Raiders needed them to go. This is happening."
Schefter

Didn't see this coming. Ouch, if he plays week 1, the o-line is going to have their hands full. Ugh!

[Teamcheez1]

I kind of felt like it was a pipe dream for us to get Mack anyway. There were several teams that had more to offer and the salary cap space. Sucks it might be the Bears, but in our division, that is the team I am the least concerned about. Nothing is guaranteed with draft picks, but they could be hamstrung in a lot of other areas if they have to send a lot of draft picks.

[smuggler]

Bears don't have a QB yet. And they paid a premium for their shot at one. Doesn't mean they can't throw a wrench in our plans by stealing a game.

[ThunderDan]

Bears don't have a QB yet. And they paid a premium for their shot at one. Doesn't mean they can't throw a wrench in our plans by stealing a game.

I think that is 5 draft picks in the 4th round and earlier that the Bears have given up in 4 years. Out of 28 picks (assuming you have 7 a year) that is almost 20% of your new talent and all in the top half of the draft.

[Pugger]

This surprises me mainly because I didn't think Oakland would trade him away. It looks like we'll have to contend with him now twice a year. :-| Let's hope the price they paid will prevent them from adding more talent going forward.

[Fosco33]

Mack/pack would’ve been interesting. But with Aaron Donalds contract and Rodgers - teams are paying crazy amounts. I wouldn’t send 2 1sts - and our firsts aren’t as good as the bears or browns would be. I’d rather have 3 decent players instead of one superstar who is showing his loyalty traits that’s a twisted knee away from screwing a team for 3-4 years.

[red]

those 2 first rounders (if that is what they gave up) are gonna be top 10 picks too, because other then mack, that team doesn't have much talent

[pbmax]

those 2 first rounders (if that is what they gave up) are gonna be top 10 picks too, because other then mack, that team doesn't have much talent

A lot depends on their new offense. Some people are sold, others are not. I bet .500 is their low end result if the offense is anything other than putrid.

[pbmax]

Beat writers getting flack about why Packers didn't get him.

Packer Report replies back:

Packer Report @PackerReport
For the millionth time today, which team's picks would you want if you're Oakland: GB's or Chicago's?

[Tony Oday]

What a joke. Packers again show no interest in trying to actually put an elite defense on the field. Just bubble gum and bailingwire a team together and pray AR doesnt get hurt. There is not two first round picks this team has made in the last decade I wouldn't trade for Mack.

[pbmax]

What a joke. Packers again show no interest in trying to actually put an elite defense on the field. Just bubble gum and bailingwire a team together and pray AR doesnt get hurt. There is not two first round picks this team has made in the last decade I wouldn't trade for Mack.

RapSheet said they were in it. And its two first round picks PLUS something (another players apparently). And Mack will make more than Aaron Donald as well.


Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
The most an NFL team has surrendered for a defensive player is when Vikings traded a 1, two 3’s and a swap of 5’s to Chiefs for DE Jared Allen. Bears trade for Khalil Mack, when it gets done, will top that, making it the most an NFL team has surrendered for a defensive player.

[Teamcheez1]

What a joke. Packers again show no interest in trying to actually put an elite defense on the field. Just bubble gum and bailingwire a team together and pray AR doesnt get hurt. There is not two first round picks this team has made in the last decade I wouldn't trade for Mack.

We probably did offer our 2 first round picks. The Bears picks will be much higher.

[ThunderDan]

What a joke. Packers again show no interest in trying to actually put an elite defense on the field. Just bubble gum and bailingwire a team together and pray AR doesnt get hurt. There is not two first round picks this team has made in the last decade I wouldn't trade for Mack.

This is the crap I don’t understand. We have no clue what or if the Packers offered to the Raiders.

But if course that means we “show no interest in trying to put an elite defense on the field.”

Because every GM and team wants to be average so they can lose their jobs every 3 years.

[Tony Oday]

What we know is the Bears have two 1st round picks to Mack. What we know is we have two this next draft. What we know is WE DIDNT GET HIM. That's what we know. Screw this mediocre backwards ass team sometimes. I will be a fan but man this had the hallmark of actually having a chance that's not AR throwing 4 TDs a game.

[pbmax]

What we know is the Bears have two 1st round picks to Mack. What we know is we have two this next draft. What we know is WE DIDNT GET HIM. That's what we know. Screw this mediocre backwards ass team sometimes. I will be a fan but man this had the hallmark of actually having a chance that's not AR throwing 4 TDs a game.

What if you are the perpetually cash strapped Raiders and you don't want two picks in the same year?

What if you are the Packers and you don't want to make Mack the highest paid defender in the League?

There has to be a value at which you won't go beyond.

[MadtownPacker]

Damn, he is gonna be the guy who ends Rodgers career. If so it will be money well spent.

[yetisnowman]

While we don't know the details, we do know the franchise has a history of of sitting on it's hands and holding on to draft picks, going for a quantity(of picks) over quality(immediate impact player). And our recent drafts have been pretty terrible. So it seemed like a good opportunity to try something new. If the difference in him being a bear and a Packer was throwing in an extra future first or a later pick this year, I can understand some frustration.

[pbmax]

Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora
Add the 49ers to the group of team's fully exploring the possibility of a Khalil Mack trade, along with NYJ, BUF, IND, GB, CLE, CHI

This was from yesterday.

[pbmax]

Ryan Wood @ByRyanWood
Even with Khalil Mack off trade block, #Packers are still looking around league to see what OLBs become available, source said. They added veteran Ahmad Brooks around this time last year. Wouldn't be surprised to see them add another vet pass rusher, if opportunity arises.

[denverYooper]

Look at the bright side... the Packers will have a lot of in-season practice against 2 strong DCs who've been stocked with talent. M3 will have to innovate or find himself out the playoffs and out of a job.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If the Packers lead 56-0 at the start of the 4th quarter on opening night, I hope McCarthy keeps ARod in the game to run up the score.

Fuck the Bears. Mack and/or Fuller would be Packers today if not for the fucking Bears!

[pbmax]

While we don't know the details, we do know the franchise has a history of of sitting on it's hands and holding on to draft picks, going for a quantity(of picks) over quality(immediate impact player). And our recent drafts have been pretty terrible. So it seemed like a good opportunity to try something new. If the difference in him being a bear and a Packer was throwing in an extra future first or a later pick this year, I can understand some frustration.

OK, let's stipulate that even with a new GM and newly powerful head coach with one more year to earn another payday, that your read on the past might have some play.

But given that up until yesterday the Packers were in discussions, how can you disprove that the Packers picks being worse than the Bears picks PLUS the Bears with more cap room could simply make a better offer to both sides?

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmBkhGeVAAEwzWy.jpg:large

[Tony Oday]

Ryan Wood @ByRyanWood
Even with Khalil Mack off trade block, #Packers are still looking around league to see what OLBs become available, source said. They added veteran Ahmad Brooks around this time last year. Wouldn't be surprised to see them add another vet pass rusher, if opportunity arises.

Without the best the Packers will take a damn retread like a Brian Robison.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Look at the bright side... the Packers will have a lot of in-season practice against 2 strong DCs who've been stocked with talent. M3 will have to innovate or find himself out the playoffs and out of a job.

what is the bright side part?

[gbgary]

*face-palm* ted.

[pbmax]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

Trade official, source tells ESPN:

Bears get: Khalil Mack, a 2020 second-round round pick and a conditional 2020 fifth-round pick.

Raiders get: 2019 first-round pick, 2020 first-round pick, 2020 third-round pick, 2019 sixth-round pick.

So Bears get back second-round pick, too

[Rutnstrut]

I am also going to agree that the Packers were not willing to do what it takes in this situation. It will be another season of hope. Hope Rodgers doesn't get hurt, hope the mediocre, thin Oline can hold up. Finally hope the pathetic LB group can at least be average.

[yetisnowman]

OK, let's stipulate that even with a new GM and newly powerful head coach with one more year to earn another payday, that your read on the past might have some play.

But given that up until yesterday the Packers were in discussions, how can you disprove that the Packers picks being worse than the Bears picks PLUS the Bears with more cap room could simply make a better offer to both sides?

I can't prove or disprove anything, that's why I said "if". I think the Bears are putting together a solid team. Today they got better. We didn't. That's frustrating regardless of specifics.

[Rutnstrut]

I can't prove or disprove anything, that's why I said "if". I think the Bears are putting together a solid team. Today they got better. We didn't. That's frustrating regardless of specifics.



You have to remember the mindset in GB. Which is, as long as we have Rodgers, to hell with the other positions.

[George Cumby]

Two firsts? No thanks.

[Fosco33]

Saw something that Chicago gets Mack, 2nd and a conditional 5th?

[George Cumby]

Saw something that Chicago gets Mack, 2nd and a conditional 5th?

See PB’s post above.

My point being the two firsts are the meat of the deal. The second and thirds they exchange in ‘20 could be a wash.

The Bears firsts are almost assuredly of higher value than the Packs.

No thanks.

[pbmax]

Saw something that Chicago gets Mack, 2nd and a conditional 5th?

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30543-Bears-get-Mack&p=982356&viewfull=1#post982356

Bears gave up four picks including the two firsts and a 2020 third and a 2019 sixth. Get one back (second rounder) and a conditional fifth.

[hoosier]

The 2020 D1 is often valued as a 2019 D2. Would you have give up, say, a first, second and fifth from next spring's draft for Mack? I would be tempted, especially since they also have NO's.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Two firsts? No thanks.

Look at the Packer first round picks since Aaron Rodgers. I would trade any two for Mack. And that leaves out the duds. MAck is a one-in-a-thousand player.

If it was just a question of those draft picks any GM would take it. Of course there's more to it.

[Zool]

So, just so I have this right, the Raiders have no say in who they will trade the player to? If the Packers GM wants a player, he gets the player? Is that how it works?

[smuggler]

The Bears firsts are worth significantly more than ours, because they will still suck.

[gbgary]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

Trade official, source tells ESPN:

Bears get: Khalil Mack, a 2020 second-round round pick and a conditional 2020 fifth-round pick.

Raiders get: 2019 first-round pick, 2020 first-round pick, 2020 third-round pick, 2019 sixth-round pick.

So Bears get back second-round pick, too

and Mack plays 2018 on a franchise tag. so...if they don't come up with a contract to his liking he can do the whole thing again.

[smuggler]

Until they sign him, all they did was trade for a holdout.

[Rastak]

Until they sign him, all they did was trade for a holdout.

They just made him super rich.

[Iron Mike]

Last time the Bears traded away two first-rounders, they got Jay Cutler. How'd that work out for them???

http://40.media.tumblr.com/96c37a0e85448a95955c52411cb2052d/tumblr_neu2t4vVTg1rge9rdo1_500.jpg

[Rastak]

Man, they paid this guy shitloads....


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/01/khalil-mack-sets-a-new-bar-for-defensive-players/


Mack way better than Cutler but damn......huge investment indeed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I see this as a very bad deal for Packers. Mack woulda been a good fit. Mack going to NFC North is a stick in the eye.
Good deal for the Raiders. Maybe excellent.

Bears - well, part of their calculation was the chance to screw the Packers. But maybe they paid too much. Hard to say.

[pbmax]

I see this as a very bad deal for Packers. Mack woulda been a good fit. Mack going to NFC North is a stick in the eye.
Good deal for the Raiders. Maybe excellent.

Bears - well, part of their calculation was the chance to screw the Packers. But maybe they paid too much. Hard to say.

If I am spending top dollar, its on a QB not a player on defense. Not even Revis is worth it in comparison.

Doesn't mean they aren't much better though.

[pbmax]

From Rastak's link: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/01/khalil-mack-sets-a-new-bar-for-defensive-players/


This equates to a full guarantee at signing of $60 million. By March 2019, $73.3 million will be fully guaranteed. By March 2020, $90 million will be fully guaranteed.

It’s a six-year, $141 million extension. That’s a new-money average of $23.5 million. (Donald’s deal has a new-money average of $22.5 million.) In all, it’s a seven-year, $154.846 million deal. That’s a total average at signing of $22.12 million.

[ThunderDan]

So, just so I have this right, the Raiders have no say in who they will trade the player to? If the Packers GM wants a player, he gets the player? Is that how it works?

That’s how it works in Madden you idiot! It must be true in real life.

[pbmax]

That CBA that was signed to end a lot of holdouts? Has sprung a couple of leaks showing when you should hold out under the new rules.

[Rastak]

That CBA that was signed to end a lot of holdouts? Has sprung a couple of leaks showing when you should hold out under the new rules.

I think the CBA was mostly directed at rookie holdouts but for key veterans, and ONLY key veterans the holdout is the most effective.

[red]

in typical bears fashion, they feels that LB is the most important position on the team

[Rastak]

in typical bears fashion, they feels that LB is the most important position on the team

Those fuckers are going to have a completely asskicking defense. They were good last year and they just added either the 1st or 2nd best defender in the league depending on your views.

That said, QBs apparently now wear red jerseys and can't be hit, at least in the preseason. That said, he should still be a force.

[Zool]

If the Bares secondary holds up they will have a top 10 D, and a bottom 5 O

[Rastak]

If the Bares secondary holds up they will have a top 10 D, and a bottom 5 O


Didn't they already have a top 10 defense WITHOUT Mack?


You could be right on the O part....

[pbmax]

Benjamin Allbright
Other teams with strong offers for Mack were GB, Cle and Buff.

[George Cumby]

Packers management sucks and shows they don’t have the will to win. They don’t have top players at every position.

[Der Lehrer]

Spend the two first round picks trading up for Nick Bosa and put the extra $10M you didnt spend on Mack to use upgrading ILB.

[pbmax]

Raiders beat guy doing Reggie’s PC
Reggie McKenzie said "more than half the league" inquired to trade DE Khalil Mack. Club narrowed suitors to teams who Raiders believed had chance to present high first-round pick in 2019.

[Joemailman]

Spend the two first round picks trading up for Nick Bosa and put the extra $10M you didnt spend on Mack to use upgrading ILB.

Bosa might be the #1 pick. Even trading both 1st round picks wouldn't be enough.

[red]

Raiders beat guy doing Reggie’s PC
Reggie McKenzie said "more than half the league" inquired to trade DE Khalil Mack. Club narrowed suitors to teams who Raiders believed had chance to present high first-round pick in 2019.

so that pretty much means GB was not really in the running for him

[Radagast]

Which GB player will most likely line up opposite of K.Mack ?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Which GB player will most likely line up opposite of K.Mack ?


For the opening game it will be Bakhtirari. For the midseason rematch it will probably be Lucas Patrick or Alex Light.

This red take brought to you by Skoals. Skoals - just a pinch between your cheek and gum.

[Tony Oday]

Brown haired Thor plays all season and rocks it. Fuck Mack and his ACL tear week two... ok I wanted him bad :(

[Joemailman]

Which GB player will most likely line up opposite of K.Mack ?


Depends on where Mack lines up.

[Bretsky]

GREAT DAY for Chicago

I think they have a stellar coach; Andy Reid noted he's the most head coach ready assistant he's had. And he has many (I think 7) coaches from his tree. They drafted my guy....and the best ILB in the draft. And they just traded an elite defensive player.

They are going to do some damage sooner than we want to admit

[Joemailman]

GREAT DAY for Chicago

I think they have a stellar coach; Andy Reid noted he's the most head coach ready assistant he's had. And he has many (I think 7) coaches from his tree. They drafted my guy....and the best ILB in the draft. And they just traded an elite defensive player.

They are going to do some damage sooner than we want to admit

Maybe. But weren't you also high on Marc Trestman?

[ThunderDan]

Maybe. But weren't you also high on Marc Trestman?

Woody was singing his praises.

[gbgary]

They just made him super rich.

yes they did.

[gbgary]

in typical bears fashion, they feels that LB is the most important position on the team

it kinda is since they have a good qb on a rookie contract.

[denverYooper]

it kinda is since they have a good qb on a rookie contract.

Good? Maybe.

[gbgary]

For the opening game it will be Bakhtirari. For the midseason rematch it will probably be Lucas Patrick or Alex Light.

This red take brought to you by Skoals. Skoals - just a pinch between your cheek and gum.

he usually plays on the left side. he'll be going against the Packers achilles-hill/weak-link right side. it's going to be extremely ugly.

[red]

it kinda is since they have a good qb on a rookie contract.

they have a very young high draft pick starting at QB

the jury is a long ways away from deciding if he's any good or not

[red]

For the opening game it will be Bakhtirari. For the midseason rematch it will probably be Lucas Patrick or Alex Light.

This red take brought to you by Skoals. Skoals - just a pinch between your cheek and gum.

approved

[hoosier]

Raiders beat guy doing Reggie’s PC
Reggie McKenzie said "more than half the league" inquired to trade DE Khalil Mack. Club narrowed suitors to teams who Raiders believed had chance to present high first-round pick in 2019.

If true, that makes me wonder if McKenzie really has a clue as GM. It's not like the Raiders are one player away from being a contender. The goal should be to acquire a larger number of picks in the first three rounds, not just focus on the team you believe is most likely to get you a top-5 pick. Unless you're trading with the Bengals, you are pretty much prognosticating with tea leaves anyway.

Doughboy's JSO piece about how Gutekunst should have offered more now seems like the kind of reactive response we'd expect from a fan, not a journalist.

[red]

If true, that makes me wonder if McKenzie really has a clue as GM. It's not like the Raiders are one player away from being a contender. The goal should be to acquire a larger number of picks in the first three rounds, not just focus on the team you believe is most likely to get you a top-5 pick. Unless you're trading with the Bengals, you are pretty much prognosticating with tea leaves anyway.

Doughboy's JSO piece about how Gutekunst should have offered more now seems like the kind of reactive response we'd expect from a fan, not a journalist.

i don't know. getting 2 high first round picks in back to back years sounds like a great way to build up a team

people on here are always saying that we have a lack of elite talent because we're always picking at the end of the rounds

they could end up with 2 top 5 picks, or at least two top 10 picks

[hoosier]

Trade with the Bears and you could end up with two top 10 picks. And one or both of those picks might amount to something in the NFL, as opposed to becoming the next in a long run of Jamarcus Russell sized busts. That's a lot of maybes.

Who knows, if Gut had upped his offer to two D1s, a D2 and a D3, maybe that would have gotten the Raiders's attention. But that's a lot to give up for the privilege of signing a guy to a $24M/year contract.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd say Oakland got the better end of the deal. I'd be saying the same thing if it was the Packers making the same deal with them. As good as Mack is, he's not worth two first round picks plus the large chunk salary cap he will soak up. If Mack stays healthy and as good as now for say 5 - 10 years, then it's close to an even trade. That's the best case for the Bears. Any serious injury or diminishing of Mack's ability, and the Bears lose their gamble.

[Radagast]

The important point is that the deal is done and GB is now going to have to deal with Mack at least twice a season now. Who/how is GB going to protect Rodgers from Mack? Will every running play need to be where Mack is not? :cnf:

[Joemailman]

Problem for the Raiders is the trade could make the Bears better now. That of course would reduce the value of the 1st round picks the Raiders get in return. Bears also get Raiders 2nd round pick while Raiders get Bears 3rd. If this trade weakens the Raiders defense, which it should, that 2nd round pick the Bears get could be a pretty high one.

[Pugger]

he usually plays on the left side. he'll be going against the Packers achilles-hill/weak-link right side. it's going to be extremely ugly.

Not if he goes up against Bulaga and a TE to help out.

[Bretsky]

Problem for the Raiders is the trade could make the Bears better now. That of course would reduce the value of the 1st round picks the Raiders get in return. Bears also get Raiders 2nd round pick while Raiders get Bears 3rd. If this trade weakens the Raiders defense, which it should, that 2nd round pick the Bears get could be a pretty high one.

Hence......Great Day for the Bears !!

[Bretsky]

Maybe. But weren't you also high on Marc Trestman?


TRUE; Kudos for good memory
I didn't think anybody pays any attention to my posts ..lol

[Joemailman]

Hence......Great Day for the Bears !!

I'm inclined to think the Bears got the better of the deal. The only way it works for the Raiders is if they can trade their 2 2019 1st round picks to move up in the draft for a player of Mack's stature. Then they get an elite player for several years without paying him 20+ million per year. I like the Bears odds of winning this trade better though.

[Bretsky]

I'm inclined to think the Bears got the better of the deal. The only way it works for the Raiders is if they can trade their 2 2019 1st round picks to move up in the draft for a player of Mack's stature. Then they get an elite player for several years without paying him 20+ million per year. I like the Bears odds of winning this trade better though.


The Bears actually got a 2nd back and gave up a 3rd.

It makes me think our two 1's Next year would have sealed the deal

[pbmax]

If true, that makes me wonder if McKenzie really has a clue as GM. It's not like the Raiders are one player away from being a contender. The goal should be to acquire a larger number of picks in the first three rounds, not just focus on the team you believe is most likely to get you a top-5 pick. Unless you're trading with the Bengals, you are pretty much prognosticating with tea leaves anyway.

Doughboy's JSO piece about how Gutekunst should have offered more now seems like the kind of reactive response we'd expect from a fan, not a journalist.

Everyone read McKenzie as showing obvious signs of thinking that signing Mack would have been a better option. Gruden might have been fighting against this, indeed, there are reports that he thought the 29th ranked D meant Mack wasn't that important and building for the future was a better idea.

[pbmax]

The important point is that the deal is done and GB is now going to have to deal with Mack at least twice a season now. Who/how is GB going to protect Rodgers from Mack? Will every running play need to be where Mack is not? :cnf:


His name is Bryan Bulaga. Let's see what he did against Mack in 2015:



Def Sack Fumb
Player Tm Int Yds TD Lng Sk Tkl Ast FR Yds TD FF

Khalil Mack OAK 0 0 0 0 1.0 1 1 0 0 0 0

Provided by View Original Table (https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Pro-Football-Reference.com</a>: <a href="https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201512200rai.htm?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#player_defense)
Generated 9/2/2018.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201512200rai.htm#all_vis_starters

Someone else said he was not Reggie White. Reggie terrorized a decent Packer O line before heading to GB. Mack can be handled. Everyone should stop moaning.

[Fritz]

His name is Bryan Bulaga. Let's see what he did against Mack in 2015:



Def Sack Fumb
Player Tm Int Yds TD Lng Sk Tkl Ast FR Yds TD FF

Khalil Mack OAK 0 0 0 0 1.0 1 1 0 0 0 0

Provided by View Original Table (https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Pro-Football-Reference.com</a>: <a href="https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201512200rai.htm?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#player_defense)
Generated 9/2/2018.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201512200rai.htm#all_vis_starters

Someone else said he was not Reggie White. Reggie terrorized a decent Packer O line before heading to GB. Mack can be handled. Everyone should stop moaning.


Except for the strippers.

[pbmax]

Except for the strippers.

Having that as your ring tone is not going to end well Fritz.

[pbmax]

Chucky redux:


The Raiders have also gone down this road before with Jon Gruden. In 1998, Gruden joined the Raiders and allowed DT Chester McGlockton to sign with the rival Chiefs. McGlockton was a Pro Bowl each of the last four seasons, but left Oakland similar to Mack (but 18 months older). After letting him leave, Oakland received the 31st and 59th overall picks in the draft as compensation. Gruden responded by saying “We think we can get some players who can impact the team this year and for years to come… It’s going to be the bloodline of our organization.” Suffice it to say, the 1998 Draft was not a good one for Oakland, other than using the 4th overall on a future Hall of Famer.

31st pick: Leon Bender
59th pick: Jon Ritchie (Ritchie was picked 63rd and if you can follow the transactions to get from 59 to 63, I applaud you)

http://www.footballperspective.com/khalil-mack-and-stars-switching-teams-in-their-prime/

[hoosier]

Everyone read McKenzie as showing obvious signs of thinking that signing Mack would have been a better option. Gruden might have been fighting against this, indeed, there are reports that he thought the 29th ranked D meant Mack wasn't that important and building for the future was a better idea.

I forget how power over personnel shakes out over in the East Bay between McKenzie and Gruden...Was it McK's call where to draw the line on re-signing Mack? An interview with McK in today's San Jose Mercury indicates that, yeah, they (he) wanted to re-sign him but that Reggie drew the line considerably short of what the Bears were willing to do:

Q: Was their counter offer similar to the deal Khalil got with the Bears — I’m sure you’ve seen those numbers. Is that about right?

McKenzie: You know what, I don’t want to comment on what we offered and all that, the numbers. I just think Khalil got a great deal.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/02/gm-reggie-mckenzie-everybody-in-the-organization-wanted-khalil-to-be-a-raider/

The defensive ranking is interesting. It would seem to say either that Mack isn't all that or that an elite defensive player doesn't have the same impact that an elite QB has.

[run pMc]

From the stories I read, the Packers were in the running as a serious player.

I think Green Bay probably didn't like trading away all those picks PLUS having to shell out all that dough in guarantees to Rodgers AND Mack. $150-200 million in guarantees to two players? Ouch.

If Trebisky (sp?) busts that's going to very good for the Raiders (and Packers). Seems risky to me.
I'm hoping Gute drafts are more like early-era Ted than late-era Ted...then those R1 picks might turn into players. Next year's draft is allegedly a better one for edge rushers; we'll see what happens.

[run pMc]

I also think if Gruden has final say on personnel he's going to gut that team's talent and take them all the way to 0-16. Trusting him with drafting (or developing) players is laughable.

[3irty1]

I don't put a lot stock in the notion that Mack is in some way disposable because he failed to make the Raiders defense not suck. Defenses can be worse and maybe even far worse than the sum of their parts. All this proves is that Mack isn't a one-man-defense.

That said I'm slightly relieved that the Packers didn't pay the ransom in order to pay the 2nd ransom it would have required to put Mack in Green and Gold. I'm not sure there are any defensive players in the league that are worth this new upper tier of contracts. Even if the players age well it doesn't seem so likely that the contracts will. It also seems clear to me that Packer fans have come to vastly underestimate the value of a first round pick. The "I'd trade any 2 of our picks since Rodgers for Mack in a heartbeat" thinking is understandable, but an abortion of logic on a few levels. Would you trade 2 at random first round selections that included the possibility of Rodgers? Because he's no less of a first round pick. The Packers' pattern of bad decision making and/or bad luck in using these first round picks is also not an indicator of their value or future success. By this logic, 2nd round picks are better than 1st round picks because the Packers have more consistently been successful there. Clearly not true. Most importantly, these 1st round picks are the great value hack of the NFL, especially since the new CBA in 2011. It's actually shocking that more rookies don't hold out like Mack did. 1st round rookie contracts are the sole way to get a starter, and maybe even a star, at far less than market value for five years. Yes every team should be aware of every opportunity through every avenue of player acquisition, but if we are being honest it doesn't matter how you do in those other avenues if you draft poorly.

[Teamcheez1]

I would love to have Mack, but definitely agree with your logic. If Gute drafts well, we could be looking at our next OLB and OL stars on this team, not to mention the fact he will have money to work with in free agency next year.

[Rutnstrut]

I wanted GB to get Mack and I wanted him pretty badly. Not so much because I believe he is the greatest ever. But because imo it would show that they are finally willing to do something than hope AR can carry the mediocre team to the Superb Owl. That said, I wouldn't be totally shocked if Mack was Albert Haynesworth 2.0.

[pbmax]

Demovsky says the Packers did not offer both the 2019 first round picks.


Gutekunst wasn't willing to part with both of his 2019 first-round picks to try to acquire stud pass rusher Khalil Mack in a trade with the Oakland Raiders. A source told ESPN.com that Gutekunst would not include both of those selections in his offer to Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie, Gutekunst's former co-worker in Green Bay.

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/45595/packers-gm-here-to-win-and-win-now-even-without-khalil-mack

[Zool]

Gudt. He does have a brain.

[run pMc]

Pairing Mack with Roqaun and Floyd will make that a tough front 7 defense. I wonder how that contract will look in 3 years time though -- will his body hold up? For comparison -- Clay is a shell of himself. It's a position with a lot of hitting, not like where QBs are protected enough to be productive into their late 30's. He hasn't missed a game yet, so maybe it's not an issue. You never know with guys who holdout though.

I'm with 3irty1 on this, our R1 picks have been undervalued by some because they've been largely underwhelming players. I'd like to see Gute do better than Ted did with finding good players with those picks.

[hoosier]

Demovsky says the Packers did not offer both the 2019 first round picks.



http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/45595/packers-gm-here-to-win-and-win-now-even-without-khalil-mack

The new guy at JSO reports that Gute might have given Reggie the ok to tell the Bears he was offering both 1's...to jack the price a little.

[KYPack]

The new guy at JSO reports that Gute might have given Reggie the ok to tell the Bears he was offering both 1's...to jack the price a little.

Was wondering along those same lines. Use the old "Packer pipeline" to make the Bears go full measure.

The NFL has created a Frankenstein monster with the present CBA.

If you are in position contractually, the right move is to hold out for the whole pre-season.

The NFL might not care. The hold-outs create a ton of interest for the media.

That's the whole goal, eh?

[hoosier]

List of NFL players who have been traded for two first round draft picks. While I don't have time to look up what those picks turned into, I count one trade that actually transformed the team giving up the draft picks (Jim "Chris" Everett) and several that backfired in a major way. With the exception of Fredd Young (and Cornelius Bennett, who doesn't count because he hadn't yet played in the NFL), traded players have all been on the offensive side of the ball. Can a 27-year old defensive lineman/linebacker be expected to hold up better than, say, a 27-year old running back (Dickerson)?

Jim Everett: Houston to Rams (1986)
Eric Dickerson: Rams to Colts (1987)*
Fredd Young: Seahawks to Colts (1988)
Hershel Walker: Dallas to Vikings for three first-rounders (1989) :laugh:
Jeff George: Colts to Atlanta (1994)
Keyshawn Johnson: Jets to Tampa (2000)
Ricky Williams: Saints to Phins (2002)
Jay Cutler: Broncos to Bears (2009)


* This was a weird one pulled off by a young Jim Irsay. First he traded the recently drafted Cornelius Bennett (who had yet to sign with Indy) to Buffalo for Greg Bell, two first rounders (1988 and '89) and a 1988 second round pick. Colts then sent all three Buffalo draft picks plus their own 1988 first and second round picks and 1989 second rounder and Owen Gill in exchange for Dickerson. That's three first round and three second round picks. The Colts were never the same again, and Irsay got an early start on his drug-addled imitation of a general manager. The next year he would trade two additional first rounders for Fredd Young, a pro bowl linebacker who had been displaced by Brian Bosworth. The ghost of George Allen would seem to get around.

[ThunderDan]

* This was a weird one pulled off by a young Jim Irsay. First he traded the recently drafted Cornelius Bennett (who had yet to sign with Indy) to Buffalo for Greg Bell, two first rounders (1988 and '89) and a 1988 second round pick. Colts then sent all three Buffalo draft picks plus their own 1988 first and second round picks and 1989 second rounder and Owen Gill in exchange for Dickerson. That's three first round and three second round picks. The Colts were never the same again, and Irsay got an early start on his drug-addled imitation of a general manager. The next year he would trade two additional first rounders for Fredd Young, a pro bowl linebacker who had been displaced by Brian Bosworth. The ghost of George Allen would seem to get around.

Fans want action by their GM to "know" they are helping the team. A lot of the time the big deals cripple the franchise.

[gbgary]

Packers choked at the free-throw line here.

[hoosier]

Packers choked at the free-throw line here.

If what Reggie said in public is to be believed, two first rounders from Green Bay would not have swung it. Reggie was looking for high first rounders. So how much extra would Gute have had to add to match the estimated value of the Bears offer? An extra 2? A 2 and a 3? At some point you are going to see salary cap constraints and loss of draft picks translate into a Browns-like roster with ARod and Mack thrown in.

[run pMc]

If what Reggie said in public is to be believed, two first rounders from Green Bay would not have swung it. Reggie was looking for high first rounders. So how much extra would Gute have had to add to match the estimated value of the Bears offer? An extra 2? A 2 and a 3? At some point you are going to see salary cap constraints and loss of draft picks translate into a Browns-like roster with ARod and Mack thrown in.

Yup. You end up with 2 players making up a quarter of your cap, about 8 mid-tier guys, and a bunch of no-names on rookie contracts. Plus you don't have high round picks to get talented no-names, and if you do, it's a struggle to fit them under the cap.

Edit: I have to admit, the scenario I just described with no-names seems to have been how Ted approached the cap and roster, but Gute has clearly shaken that up with signing guys like Graham and Wilkerson.

[gbgary]

the defense would be MUCH better with him. the Rodgers window is a short-term thing. his extension is the reason you sign mack. to win a super bowl in the short term while Rodgers is here. nothing else matters at this point.

[Carolina_Packer]

the defense would be MUCH better with him. the Rodgers window is a short-term thing. his extension is the reason you sign mack. to win a super bowl in the short term while Rodgers is here. nothing else matters at this point.

You're right, they would be much better with him. Agree 100%. That said, there was already talk about what Rodgers recent extension is going to do for the team's ability to manage the salary cap. Assuming McKenzie was fine with what the Packers had to offer. Now, you've got the highest paid offensive and defensive player under your cap. How much of a percentage of the cap is that? Of course, you're always hurting on Sundays if your best players lose playing time, but now it affects them in the off-season when it comes to extending/signing other players. On one hand, it's more flexible to be a team with a QB on a rookie deal as far as signing other guys...load it up, Seattle style. The Bears still don't know what they have in Trubisky, so some of Mack's fate is in the rookie's hands. If he fails, Mack fails, and they are back to square one with a pricey free agent LB.

Looks good on you, though!

[pbmax]

Michael Gehlken @GehlkenNFL
Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie said team ruled out Mack suitors whom it projected to hold high draft pick in 2019. Rams were one.

[Zool]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/05/rams-admit-they-tried-to-get-khalil-mack/

“We offered a pretty aggressive package and they came back and said, ‘We just think you’re going to pick too low,'” Demoff said.

Could just be smoke and mirrors, but that's a lot of reports saying the same thing.

[Cheesehead Craig]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/05/rams-admit-they-tried-to-get-khalil-mack/

“We offered a pretty aggressive package and they came back and said, ‘We just think you’re going to pick too low,'” Demoff said.

Could just be smoke and mirrors, but that's a lot of reports saying the same thing.

That can't be right. I mean, the Packers don't want to win and are too scared to make a move like this. That's the only explanation.

[hoosier]

Michael Gehlken @GehlkenNFL
Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie said team ruled out Mack suitors whom it projected to hold high draft pick in 2019. Rams were one.

What's that supposed to be, some kind of sick joke?

[woodbuck27]

Beat writers getting flack about why Packers didn't get him.

Packer Report replies back:

Packer Report @PackerReport
For the millionth time today, which team's picks would you want if you're Oakland: GB's or Chicago's?

Really.

[woodbuck27]

I look at this as a big setback for the Oakland Raiders and any player development policy...ahh no policy.

Something has to give in Oakland ( arn't they moving? ) soon or they'll closely resemble that NFL Franchise that simply cannot get it together, the Cleveland Browns.

At least a franchise that's been trying to resemble the Browns or da Bears are trying but bleeding away Top Draft Picks is going to hurt. It has to start in the Draft and luck and adding FA's as necessary to be in the Real Game or Super Bowl bound.

[pbmax]

What's that supposed to be, some kind of sick joke?

Wouldn't be the first time.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxkKlzInR4Y

[KYPack]

Wouldn't be the first time.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxkKlzInR4Y

This thing is full of many strange connotations.

[bobblehead]

If I were coach I would double team mack and run it right at him every play he is in for the first half. Wear that fucker down to the nubs.

Of course I'm not the coach, MM is which means empty back field with Jimmy Graham lined up to pass block mack one on one then being confused why ARod suffered a concussion in week 1.

[denverYooper]

Michael Gehlken @GehlkenNFL
Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie said team ruled out Mack suitors whom it projected to hold high draft pick in 2019. Rams were one.

With Mack, they had to figure the Packers would likely be picking at 32 for the next 2 years.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Two firsts and a massive contract might not be worth it. Alexander and Jackson look like home runs. If you nail both firsts next season that could have a better short-term and long-term impact. Plus the money saved might be needed with Rodgers new contract. Rodgers could stay play another 5-7 years.

[wthigoot]

List of NFL players who have been traded for two first round draft picks. While I don't have time to look up what those picks turned into, I count one trade that actually transformed the team giving up the draft picks (Jim "Chris" Everett) and several that backfired in a major way. With the exception of Fredd Young (and Cornelius Bennett, who doesn't count because he hadn't yet played in the NFL), traded players have all been on the offensive side of the ball. Can a 27-year old defensive lineman/linebacker be expected to hold up better than, say, a 27-year old running back (Dickerson)?

Jim Everett: Houston to Rams (1986)
Eric Dickerson: Rams to Colts (1987)*
Fredd Young: Seahawks to Colts (1988)
Hershel Walker: Dallas to Vikings for three first-rounders (1989) :laugh:
Jeff George: Colts to Atlanta (1994)
Keyshawn Johnson: Jets to Tampa (2000)
Ricky Williams: Saints to Phins (2002)
Jay Cutler: Broncos to Bears (2009)


* This was a weird one pulled off by a young Jim Irsay. First he traded the recently drafted Cornelius Bennett (who had yet to sign with Indy) to Buffalo for Greg Bell, two first rounders (1988 and '89) and a 1988 second round pick. Colts then sent all three Buffalo draft picks plus their own 1988 first and second round picks and 1989 second rounder and Owen Gill in exchange for Dickerson. That's three first round and three second round picks. The Colts were never the same again, and Irsay got an early start on his drug-addled imitation of a general manager. The next year he would trade two additional first rounders for Fredd Young, a pro bowl linebacker who had been displaced by Brian Bosworth. The ghost of George Allen would seem to get around.

On the one hand, there is John Hadl (1974) who fits here, but might be before the window you were looking at. Oof.

On the other hand I think I would have given the 2 1's for Mack though.

#31 and #32 get you only to #12 or so; need #19 and #20 to get into top 5. Mack would be worth it.

[pbmax]

Nice breakdown from multiple agents perspective on Mack deal.

http://www.optimumscouting.com/news/three-takeaways-from-nfl-agents-on-the-khalil-mack