REALITY BITES--BEYOND THE QB---GREEN BAY VS the VIQUEENS---KUDOS TO RICK SPIELMAN

[Bretsky]

HOW DID WE GET TO THIS ? Going into tomorrow's game is exciting.

We keep hearing will AROD play or will AROD not play ?

Upon examining the difference in talent at each position once might tie the answer directly to Do we have a shot to win or are we going to get disappointed ???

I get that Minnesota has not won a Super Bowl and Green Bay has; but for years they have seemed to be closing the gap in talent between the Vikes and GB. And for years many of us have been silenty saying...Rick Spielman....is making nice draft picks and moves

TODAY.....besides the QB, is there any positional group, besides the QB, where Green Bay is actually better than the Vikes ?

When I look at this matchup, I say reality bites

ON DEFENSE

Linebackers----ADVANTAGE QUEENIES
Secondary-----ADVANTAGE QUEENIES (even though I like what gooties has done)
Defensive Line-ADVANTAGE QUEEENIES

Rushers- ADVANTAGE QUEENIES
Receivers- ADVANTAGE QUEENIES
Offensive Line- MAYBE..ADVANTAGE PACKERS- I give up the advantage here but not by a lot. Both teams have stellar LT's, but I think Green Bay's surrounding cast is better than the Vikes

SO while all of Wisconsin sits and wonders if AROD will play, I think Green Bay, at this point, should be asking themselves if AROD should play if that knee is not good.

IF AROD plays, I'd call the game even money...…….but you guys think da Bears defense was tough.....now look at Minnesota. You think Zimmer and that staff are going to let GB utilize the quick hitters we did vs Da Bears ? They don't have Khalil Mack, but they have a much better all around pass rush than Da Bears, and those CB's can get up on that line and jam our WR's way better than the Bears. You think Minnesota is going to hit that knee a few times ? Of course they are ! For that reason in itself the braintrust at Green Bay should seriously think about sending down the marching order to give AROD another week since the season could be at risk of being ruined ?

IF AROD sits, we're not winning with Kizer. You can take the one large advantage Green Bay has away and now that's a disadvantage. Maybe Kizer develops; my view is he won't but I'm happy to be wrong. But he's not good right now. If Kizer starts for any NFL team that teams defense better tear the opposition apart cause it won't be pretty. Throw Kizer out there, and our odds of winning are next to nothing.

HOW DID IT GET THIS WAY ? While ThanksTed gets infinite credit for having the stones to draft AROD in the 20's while so many other teams let him go based on needs, after that when you look at these two rosters it's painfully obvious that Rick Spielman grossly outperformed Ted Thompson as a GM over the last several years.

The Vikes look like a team built to go deep into the playoffs.....maybe even a Super Bowl.....Green Ba does not.

Yall know I'm not afraid to put myself out there; and Yall know I'm happy to be wrong and can take a ribbing down the road when I am.

I hope I'm wrong here. And I hope this thread serves as a whammy for the entire season where posters bump it so make fun of me for being wrong.

But I don't think I am.

Yes, the game it at home, but the talent besides QB is superior to GB across the board.

The Labron James like Talent of Aaron Rodgers usually gets us to or near the playoffs each year; it probably does this year as well. But without AROD the Packers struggle to win 6 games.

We stole a win from an inferior talented Chicago Bears last week. We're not playing them Sunday

GB should probably look at all the factors, and consider the big picture decision....to Rest Aaron Rodgers.

[mraynrand]

Good post.

Minnesota receivers are good, not great. They have some dynamism at RB. The O-line is OK. The QB is very good, but can collapse. The defense is solid all around.

I somewhat agree about personnel over the past three years. TT just didn't bring in enough talent, mostly because of the 2015 draft disaster. TT overall drafted pretty decent talent, just not enough of it, and other than maybe Adams, Bacteria, Clark, Daniels and Jeff Janis, no obvious pro-bowl level gems (2017 not counted yet).

2017 and 2018 drafting on defense could actually end up saving this squad, if the back end can become dominant.

[mraynrand]

Rodgers should play if he can - there's not many games as must-win as home games against top Division rivals. It's like having Big Ben sit against the Ravens or Ryan sit out the N.O. game.

[red]

when did you start this one dickhead?

i'm gonna "combine" this thread with mine. kind of

i caught part of doug gottlieb on his show yesterday talking about why a-rod hasn't won more super bowls. he basically said its because TT sucked as a GM

he said the Vikings should show everyone this weekend just why the packers haven't won more SBs

he refused to break things down, but he said, if you take the starters from both teams (22 players), and had to pick between the 2 to make 1 team, he would select 18 or 19 players from the Vikings, and only a few starters (including rodgers) from GB. he did say there might be a few guy that were close and up for debate, but overall, the Queens had the much better roster

anyone want to break it down?

(sending up the bat signal for patler)

[mraynrand]

Vikings have done a nice job building a roster. The core of their defense: Richardson, Barr, Wayne, Rhodes, Harrison are #13, 9, 11, 25, and 29 picks overall. There are levels of picks in the draft that the Packers don't routinely see, but they also hit on some good guys and gems in 2-5 (Griffen, Kendricks, Hunter, McKinnon). They also had high profile misses or disappointments like Ponder, Patterson, Floyd, Bridgewater (everyone has guys who get injured and never fulfill their promise).

I think they're close than people think in roster talent. The defensive focus in coaching and draft and success of many picks on that side of the ball is their advantage. The Packers advantage is Rodgers and the offensive scheme (don't laugh) and skill players (Adams, Bacteria, maybe Graham). Packers are thinning here, like a balding man over 50 (*cough*). If they don't address the drop in talent on offense, they're in trouble because:

In strength against strength, the Packers win when their offense scores more than 23 over the 4 years 2013-2016 (I threw out 2017 - and you could argue to throw out 2013 game 2). Basically, the Vikings have to pretty much shut down the Packer offense to win, and they haven't been able to do that on the road.

[texaspackerbacker]

HOW DID WE GET TO THIS ? Going into tomorrow's game is exciting.

We keep hearing will AROD play or will AROD not play ?

Upon examining the difference in talent at each position once might tie the answer directly to Do we have a shot to win or are we going to get disappointed ???

I get that Minnesota has not won a Super Bowl and Green Bay has; but for years they have seemed to be closing the gap in talent between the Vikes and GB. And for years many of us have been silenty saying...Rick Spielman....is making nice draft picks and moves

TODAY.....besides the QB, is there any positional group, besides the QB, where Green Bay is actually better than the Vikes ?

When I look at this matchup, I say reality bites

ON DEFENSE

Linebackers----ADVANTAGE QUEENIES
Secondary-----ADVANTAGE QUEENIES (even though I like what gooties has done)
Defensive Line-ADVANTAGE QUEEENIES

Rushers- ADVANTAGE QUEENIES
Receivers- ADVANTAGE QUEENIES
Offensive Line- MAYBE..ADVANTAGE PACKERS- I give up the advantage here but not by a lot. Both teams have stellar LT's, but I think Green Bay's surrounding cast is better than the Vikes

SO while all of Wisconsin sits and wonders if AROD will play, I think Green Bay, at this point, should be asking themselves if AROD should play if that knee is not good.

IF AROD plays, I'd call the game even money...…….but you guys think da Bears defense was tough.....now look at Minnesota. You think Zimmer and that staff are going to let GB utilize the quick hitters we did vs Da Bears ? They don't have Khalil Mack, but they have a much better all around pass rush than Da Bears, and those CB's can get up on that line and jam our WR's way better than the Bears. You think Minnesota is going to hit that knee a few times ? Of course they are ! For that reason in itself the braintrust at Green Bay should seriously think about sending down the marching order to give AROD another week since the season could be at risk of being ruined ?

IF AROD sits, we're not winning with Kizer. You can take the one large advantage Green Bay has away and now that's a disadvantage. Maybe Kizer develops; my view is he won't but I'm happy to be wrong. But he's not good right now. If Kizer starts for any NFL team that teams defense better tear the opposition apart cause it won't be pretty. Throw Kizer out there, and our odds of winning are next to nothing.

HOW DID IT GET THIS WAY ? While ThanksTed gets infinite credit for having the stones to draft AROD in the 20's while so many other teams let him go based on needs, after that when you look at these two rosters it's painfully obvious that Rick Spielman grossly outperformed Ted Thompson as a GM over the last several years.

The Vikes look like a team built to go deep into the playoffs.....maybe even a Super Bowl.....Green Ba does not.

Yall know I'm not afraid to put myself out there; and Yall know I'm happy to be wrong and can take a ribbing down the road when I am.

I hope I'm wrong here. And I hope this thread serves as a whammy for the entire season where posters bump it so make fun of me for being wrong.

But I don't think I am.

Yes, the game it at home, but the talent besides QB is superior to GB across the board.

The Labron James like Talent of Aaron Rodgers usually gets us to or near the playoffs each year; it probably does this year as well. But without AROD the Packers struggle to win 6 games.

We stole a win from an inferior talented Chicago Bears last week. We're not playing them Sunday

GB should probably look at all the factors, and consider the big picture decision....to Rest Aaron Rodgers.

How many times do I have to say it? Thank you Ted for all the mediocrity beyond Aaron Rodgers.

The only thing I disagree with (other than your "maybe" about the rotten Packer O Line) is your absolutely flawed last line: Hell No, you don't rest Aaron Rodgers. You play him and kick the Vikings ass as per usual.

[Zool]

There’s definitely better players on MN, but you’re clearly not paying attention if you think the o-lines are even close.

[Bretsky]

GB imo has the better OL
But I think it is kind of close

[pbmax]

Could we just pay Patler a sum of money to debunk this stuff faster than volunteers can?

This was going to be a long post about how the Vikings routinely bounce between playoffs and high draft picks, but the difference can be summed up just with first round draft picks for QBs.

Thompson Packers - Aaron Rodgers

Remaining member of the Triangle of Authority - Christian Ponder

Thank you for listening to Doug Gottlieb's "Are You Enough of a Sucker to Listen to Me" radio network.

[Bretsky]

Could we just pay Patler a sum of money to debunk this stuff faster than volunteers can?

This was going to be a long post about how the Vikings routinely bounce between playoffs and high draft picks, but the difference can be summed up just with first round draft picks for QBs.

Thompson Packers - Aaron Rodgers

Remaining member of the Triangle of Authority - Christian Ponder

Thank you for listening to Doug Gottlieb's "Are You Enough of a Sucker to Listen to Me" radio network.



I heard no part of the Doug Gotlieb Show

I hate that peckerhead

He rips on the Badgers all the time

[red]

Could we just pay Patler a sum of money to debunk this stuff faster than volunteers can?

This was going to be a long post about how the Vikings routinely bounce between playoffs and high draft picks, but the difference can be summed up just with first round draft picks for QBs.

Thompson Packers - Aaron Rodgers

Remaining member of the Triangle of Authority - Christian Ponder

Thank you for listening to Doug Gottlieb's "Are You Enough of a Sucker to Listen to Me" radio network.

i listened for about 5 minutes. but i don't disagree with him thats theres a lot more talent on the vikings. we just have a much, much,much better QB, that give us a chance to beat them

[Zool]

GB imo has the better OL
But I think it is kind of close

It’s not close. Their online is a constant problem. Like the Packers DBs have been for a decade

[Bretsky]

Well the LT's give a slight advantage to GB

But the rest of our OL isn't currently lights out either

[Zool]

Well the LT's give a slight advantage to GB

But the rest of our OL isn't currently lights out either

They are on their 3rd string center. Lindsey to Elflein is maybe a push. Left guard, and right tackle are a mystery at best. Right guard Remers? is better than McCray but doesn’t stay healthy.

[Rutnstrut]

Vikes have a better head coach.

[bobblehead]

i listened for about 5 minutes. but i don't disagree with him thats theres a lot more talent on the vikings. we just have a much, much,much better QB, that give us a chance to beat them

Give me 8 weeks to see Pettines D vs. Zimmers D. I think Capers has been a huge problem for a long time and I think MM has as well (but much less so). If our D looks like the Vikings D come week 8 then I will say they aren't all that much more talented than our group just better coached than we have been in the past.

[Pugger]

There’s definitely better players on MN, but you’re clearly not paying attention if you think the o-lines are even close.

This all day long. Our tackles are light-years better than theirs and that is huge. Our defensive strength is our D line so I hope we can take advantage of this.

[yetisnowman]

Vikings have done a nice job building a roster. The core of their defense: Richardson, Barr, Wayne, Rhodes, Harrison are #13, 9, 11, 25, and 29 picks overall. There are levels of picks in the draft that the Packers don't routinely see, but they also hit on some good guys and gems in 2-5 (Griffen, Kendricks, Hunter, McKinnon). They also had high profile misses or disappointments like Ponder, Patterson, Floyd, Bridgewater (everyone has guys who get injured and never fulfill their promise).


Kind of a misleading way to phrase it. Of the 5 core guys you mentioned the 2 all pros Rhodes and Smith were 25th and 29th picks. And Richardson was drafted by another team and signed as a free agent. Take away their 2 top 10 picks and they still have a superior roster. They have done a better job drafting and assembling a team.

[Zool]

Kind of a misleading way to phrase it. Of the 5 core guys you mentioned the 2 all pros Rhodes and Smith were 25th and 29th picks. And Richardson was drafted by another team and signed as a free agent. Take away their 2 top 10 picks and they still have a superior roster. They have done a better job drafting and assembling a team.

As they did for the 1998 season, and even the 2009 season. The last time they went back to back in NFC title games was the mid 70s. This year won’t be different.

[mraynrand]

Kind of a misleading way to phrase it. Of the 5 core guys you mentioned the 2 all pros Rhodes and Smith were 25th and 29th picks. And Richardson was drafted by another team and signed as a free agent. Take away their 2 top 10 picks and they still have a superior roster. They have done a better job drafting and assembling a team.

I was specifically trying to mislead you.

[pbmax]

Kind of a misleading way to phrase it. Of the 5 core guys you mentioned the 2 all pros Rhodes and Smith were 25th and 29th picks. And Richardson was drafted by another team and signed as a free agent. Take away their 2 top 10 picks and they still have a superior roster. They have done a better job drafting and assembling a team.

I you take away the top 10 picks, the entire Defense plays worse, which affects how you view the other players.

If as Bobble suggests Pettine is able to get long lasting improvement out of the D, everyone's opinion of the younger players goes up.

I don't think its a coincidence that the side of the ball that the head coach is on seems to have better luck drafting for the system.

[bobblehead]

Well the LT's give a slight advantage to GB

But the rest of our OL isn't currently lights out either

Our OL contained their ridiculously better DL than ours. Daniels was held all day. I think we disproved this talent gap today, on a day that our all world QB wasn't that remarkably great.

[bobblehead]

Oh, and to the coaching question. Why was House on the field instead of Jackson when King went down. WTF!

[mraynrand]

Oh, and to the coaching question. Why was House on the field instead of Jackson when King went down. WTF!

That's a great question

[Fritz]

I'm guessing they were worried about the rookie Jackson blowing an assignment and letting, like, a 75-yard touchdown pass get by him.

[mraynrand]

I'm guessing they were worried about the rookie Jackson blowing an assignment and letting, like, a 75-yard touchdown pass get by him.

It could happen

[pbmax]

In good news, we now know why House was on the bench last week.

[Bossman641]

No more house please

[pbmax]

Late word in Banjo thread is that Brice made a bad read and abandoned his position to help House.

[Zool]

Late word in Banjo thread is that Brice made a bad read and abandoned his position to help House.

That was on the replay. He made the wrong guess. Went to cover the other side of the field, no time to recover.

[deake]

Oh, and to the coaching question. Why was House on the field instead of Jackson when King went down. WTF!

Is that a question for MM or for our new defensive coordinator?

[pbmax]

Is that a question for MM or for our new defensive coordinator?

It is but when they switched House off him in the second half, they put Alexander on him, not Jackson.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/09/17/packers-pass-defense-proves-vulnerable-without-cornerback-kevin-king/1340056002/

Doesn't specify if House stayed on the field but I think he did. Jackson seems to play only in dime and turbo (6 and 7 DBs).

[Fritz]

Bretsky, after seeing that King got hurt - again - I have to say that the early returns on TT's pick are falling in your favor - I'd swap TJ Watt for the seemingly ever-injured Kevin King at this point.

Not to say that King can't come back and play and be healthy. When he does play he's good. But he doesn't play much.

[wist43]

Our OL contained their ridiculously better DL than ours. Daniels was held all day. I think we disproved this talent gap today, on a day that our all world QB wasn't that remarkably great.

I don't think that's the case... Rodgers kept us in it and gave us a chance to win, but the game didn't change my opinion that Minnesota is a superior organization across the board.

I fully expect Minnesota will blow us out when they play in Minnesota.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers was playing on 1 leg. Refs took away 1 Packer touchdown with phantom holding call. Allowed an eventual Viking TD drive to continue with Clay call. Yet it was a tie game even though the Vikings are superior at every position except QB. I guess the home field advantage must be worth about 30 points.

[pbmax]

I think wist is trying to tell us that Zimmer is a terrible coach.

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, after seeing that King got hurt - again - I have to say that the early returns on TT's pick are falling in your favor - I'd swap TJ Watt for the seemingly ever-injured Kevin King at this point.

Not to say that King can't come back and play and be healthy. When he does play he's good. But he doesn't play much.


I've said I'm happy to be wrong.

But TJ Watt was right up the dam road. He had the talent, pedigree, and is a leader. ThanksTed

[Bretsky]

Rodgers was playing on 1 leg. Refs took away 1 Packer touchdown with phantom holding call. Allowed an eventual Viking TD drive to continue with Clay call. Yet it was a tie game even though the Vikings are superior at every position except QB. I guess the home field advantage must be worth about 30 points.


It will be interesting to see if the game in MN is close, or double digits

[denverYooper]

TJ Watt had 0 sacks, 1 tackle and 1 assist in the last game and was part of a defense that gave up 6 passing TD and a 154+ rating to a 2nd year QB.

Not a great look for a "stud" pass rusher.

[pbmax]

TJ Watt had 0 sacks, 1 tackle and 1 assist in the last game and was part of a defense that gave up 6 passing TD and a 154+ rating to a 2nd year QB.

Not a great look for a "stud" pass rusher.

But the pedigree. We know this is a dog and pony show. :D

[wist43]

I agree we should have won the game but for shit officiating... doesn't mean we're a better team.

Minnesota will likely have multiple pro bowlers... we'll have 1.

[Bretsky]

TJ Watt had 0 sacks, 1 tackle and 1 assist in the last game and was part of a defense that gave up 6 passing TD and a 154+ rating to a 2nd year QB.

Not a great look for a "stud" pass rusher.


Seeing you are looking at one game stats

What were his stats for week one ??

[Teamcheez1]

Seeing you are looking at one game stats

What were his stats for week one ??

The NFL doesn't count stats in the official totals when you play the Browns. They considered it an additional preseason game.

[texaspackerbacker]

That one Packer all-pro outweighs all the Packer shortcomings at other positions and all the pro-bowlers, etc. that the Vikings and other teams have.

With a healthy Aaron Rodgers or even a 70 or 80% one, the Packers shouldn't lose to anybody. The Vikings probably are a top five team, but they are NOT as good as the Packers with Aaron Rodgers and a lame-assed supporting cast.

[Pugger]

Rodgers was playing on 1 leg. Refs took away 1 Packer touchdown with phantom holding call. Allowed an eventual Viking TD drive to continue with Clay call. Yet it was a tie game even though the Vikings are superior at every position except QB. I guess the home field advantage must be worth about 30 points.

:tup:

[denverYooper]

Seeing you are looking at one game stats

What were his stats for week one ??

I was just doing the same cherrypicking all the Wattlickers did after week 1 :).

He had 7 sacks last year, 3 against Cleveland.