Resolved: The Problem With The Packer Offense Is

[pbmax]

Aaron Rodgers.

Not that he has lost his considerable skills. But that those skills; physical, mental, recall, persuasiveness and public stature mean his imprint on the offense is immense.

And that imprint favors longer pass plays, extended time in pocket and out, and favoring players and matchups rather than the specific call on given plays.

This is not to say Rodgers is throwing the game, but his belief in the extended deep play offense, which was other worldly for several years in this decade, are no longer supported by the players on offense and the defenses those players face.

Rodgers hasn't gone full turncoat and is operating honestly in response to the offensive downturn. You can see that is the number of plays the running backs are involved with plus his advocacy for Jones to touch the ball more.

But I think this is the only explanation that covers his recent disagreement with McCarthy over not getting the ball to Adams more, even though he had 14 targets. McCarthy still shares some blame, but he has altered the offense, they are using more short passes and slants but the resistance seems to be led by his QB.

The near interception on the MVS comeback route, I think the one that Rodgers gave MVS some grief about, shows part of the disconnect. Rodgers wanted that player for whatever reason, but McCarthy had actually stacked WR on the offenses left and got Davante Adams free for a slant pass that was headed for a wide open middle of the field. Rodgers never looked at the stack. He was focused, I believe, on the one on one matchup.

[pbmax]

That MVS pass with a schemed open Adams is on Twitter somewhere in the All-22 form. If you can find it, please link to it.

[texaspackerbacker]

How ridiculous can people get? Without Aaron Rodgers, the Packers would be at or very near the bottom of the NFL - that's the mess Ted left us talent-wise.

If there is a problem - and it's questionable that there even is, it's not trusting Rodgers enough to just go out and do what needs to be done. Occasionally, like the Bears game, circumstances and/or hyper-caution put the team in such a deep hole that they unleash him. When that happens, great things occur.

I'm not blaming McCarthy too much for "playing not to lose", because if you play not to lose, most of the time you win. The passing game, though, is the key to success for the Packers, and by necessity - meaning a shitty O Line - scrambling by the QB makes that possible. People, therefore, should cut the damn whining about Rodgers taking time to throw - he's better than anybody in the history of the NFL in general, but in particular at avoiding interceptions.

Postpone this poll 5 or 10 years until we don't have Aaron Rodgers any more, and then people can really ask what's wrong - and it will be dead obvious, and there won't be a solution unless or until the next all-world QB comes our way.

[mraynrand]

That MVS pass with a schemed open Adams is on Twitter somewhere in the All-22 form. If you can find it, please link to it.

I can get in on NFL game pass, but I'm not sure how to post it. I still haven't figured out my new video software. Also checking on copyright stuff - I can't afford to get busted...

But anyway, Adams was lined up behind another receiver, came open for a quick pass and for no good reason, Rodgers threw to a covered Exxon Valdez Scantron. For a guy who wanted to get Adams more targets, he shoulda thrown to him right there.

[mraynrand]

How ridiculous can people get....

Unfortunately, your post doesn't really address the question.

[texaspackerbacker]

Unfortunately, your post doesn't really address the question.

You better look again at that question: whether or not Aaron Rodgers "is the problem". Sheeeesh!

Unleash him to throw the ball down the field, rein in this stupid short passing game, and for the longer term, get some decent O Line personnel.

[mraynrand]

You better look again at that question: whether or not Aaron Rodgers "is the problem". Sheeeesh!

Unleash him to throw the ball down the field, rein in this stupid short passing game, and for the longer term, get some decent O Line personnel.

I saw the line block well for him last week - and other weeks as well. So I don't think that's a serious problem. Not the best line, but decent.

I think you disagree about the TD-checkdown philosophy, but your view contradicts your own view of the O-line. If the O-line is so terrible, going for the long ball and relying on extended protection is entirely the wrong strategy, especially with a less mobile QB.

The issue is whether there are problems with Rodgers that are (helping to) stagnate the offense. I would say so, but probably due to his injury/reduced accuracy. His bizarre comment about Adams not getting enough targets suggests maybe some frustration about not getting big plays and TDs out of Adams. But Rodgers clearly missed Adams on a fourth down going to MVS instead - which was almost a pick six. Rodgers is off, and it's affecting the offense. Of course, no one is saying they'd be better with, god forbid, Kizer in there, but there is a problem there, specifically with Rodgers.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, lower expectations enough and the O Line might seem barely adequate. They actually did decent pass blocking maybe 3 or 4 times in the Bills game.

And yeah, as you say, if you don't have a mobile QB, poor O Line blocking prevents throwing it down the field - but we DO have a mobile QB. Rodgers at 60-70% is still better than just about anybody else - and that anybody else can't throw anything close to his accuracy and judgment.

As for that silly "controversy", that's just the sports world's version of fake news media trying to stir up trouble. Rodgers vs. McCarthy/Brady vs. Belichek/etc., that's just bullshit designed to get some people sucked in to their commentary.

Yeah, Rodgers got away with a bad mistake on the MVS near interception (although it almost certainly was MVS's fault and he will learn from the mistake). Nobody's perfect, although the guy we have playing QB is about as close to it as anybody in the history of the NFL. I would even agree that his accuracy has been only maybe about 97% of his normal excellence since the leg injury. Labeling Rodgers "the problem", though, is just plain stupid!

[mraynrand]

Yeah, lower expectations enough and the O Line might seem barely adequate. They actually did decent pass blocking maybe 3 or 4 times in the Bills game.

And yeah, as you say, if you don't have a mobile QB, poor O Line blocking prevents throwing it down the field - but we DO have a mobile QB. Rodgers at 60-70% is still better than just about anybody else - and that anybody else can't throw anything close to his accuracy and judgment.

As for that silly "controversy", that's just the sports world's version of fake news media trying to stir up trouble. Rodgers vs. McCarthy/Brady vs. Belichek/etc., that's just bullshit designed to get some people sucked in to their commentary.

Yeah, Rodgers got away with a bad mistake on the MVS near interception (although it almost certainly was MVS's fault and he will learn from the mistake). Nobody's perfect, although the guy we have playing QB is about as close to it as anybody in the history of the NFL. I would even agree that his accuracy has been only maybe about 97% of his normal excellence since the leg injury. Labeling Rodgers "the problem", though, is just plain stupid!


This isn't convincing. The O-line blocked for almost 150 yards of rushing and gave up 2 sacks. Buffalo held MN to 16 yards rushing the week before at MN and gave up less than 300 yards passing on 40 completions. This to an offense that lit up the Packers D. So the Packer O-line is perfectly adequate. The run success should be a great help to the passing game, yet they struggled. Rodgers missed guys and missed plays, for whatever reason. Again, no one wants another QB, no one denies that Rodgers is pretty frickin' awesome, but some of the evidence points to him being a problem right now in the offense humming along.

I think the general problem is of comfort level and being happy/patient and taking what the defenses give them. A death of a thousand cuts is the way to go as the standard, even while you can still take your shots. Jut don't go TD-checkdown every play (or the bulk of plays).

[pbmax]

You better look again at that question: whether or not Aaron Rodgers "is the problem". Sheeeesh!

Unleash him to throw the ball down the field, rein in this stupid short passing game, and for the longer term, get some decent O Line personnel.

You just gave an example of an "unleashed" Rodgers in the Bears game. The Bears offense was all quick throws with very little time dilly dallying in the pocket. This post presumes the preference against this kind of offense you are calling unleashed stems from Rodgers preference. Not McCarthy's.

To be fair, in response to the offensive downturn, McCarthy has called a LOT more behind the LOS passes. Many of those patterns, I think, are useless. Especially given the frequency of the call and the lack of making a defense pay for scheming against them. That, I believe, is on McCarthy.

[pbmax]

https://media.giphy.com/media/fHu8kPxgIif5B1xxFU/giphy.gif

[denverYooper]

Seeing the clip, it looks like one of those plays where Rodgers thinks there is DPI and chucks it that way as a way of pointing it out.

I agree with your larger point about Rodgers, though.

[Freak Out]

I can get in on NFL game pass, but I'm not sure how to post it. I still haven't figured out my new video software. Also checking on copyright stuff - I can't afford to get busted...

But anyway, Adams was lined up behind another receiver, came open for a quick pass and for no good reason, Rodgers threw to a covered Exxon Valdez Scantron. For a guy who wanted to get Adams more targets, he shoulda thrown to him right there.

We just need to call him Hazelwood.

[Smidgeon]

Decent article on why M3 says the offense has been subpar:

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/10/06/silverstein-mike-mccarthy-talks-packers-offense-aaron-rodgers-relationship/1538586002/

[Rutnstrut]

Aaron Rodgers.

Not that he has lost his considerable skills. But that those skills; physical, mental, recall, persuasiveness and public stature mean his imprint on the offense is immense.

And that imprint favors longer pass plays, extended time in pocket and out, and favoring players and matchups rather than the specific call on given plays.

This is not to say Rodgers is throwing the game, but his belief in the extended deep play offense, which was other worldly for several years in this decade, are no longer supported by the players on offense and the defenses those players face.

Rodgers hasn't gone full turncoat and is operating honestly in response to the offensive downturn. You can see that is the number of plays the running backs are involved with plus his advocacy for Jones to touch the ball more.

But I think this is the only explanation that covers his recent disagreement with McCarthy over not getting the ball to Adams more, even though he had 14 targets. McCarthy still shares some blame, but he has altered the offense, they are using more short passes and slants but the resistance seems to be led by his QB.

The near interception on the MVS comeback route, I think the one that Rodgers gave MVS some grief about, shows part of the disconnect. Rodgers wanted that player for whatever reason, but McCarthy had actually stacked WR on the offenses left and got Davante Adams free for a slant pass that was headed for a wide open middle of the field. Rodgers never looked at the stack. He was focused, I believe, on the one on one matchup.



Wouldn't this argument also support that scheme or stubby's lack of it for the players he has is the problem?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

It's all Dixie's fault. Every time a NASCAR highlight pops on on the tube, Miss Patrick is always a-barking at someone. She's made the Great Arm of Butte bitchy.

A-Rod, dude shoulda stayed with Yoko. Kids today and their skinny pants, they ain't know how awesome Lennon was when he was with Yoko. Awesome anthems like Working-Class Hero, Power to the People, Woman is the N-Word of the World, and the greatest song of all time, Imagine, were all composed when Lennon and Yoko were making heterogeneous offspring.

[Pugger]

You better look again at that question: whether or not Aaron Rodgers "is the problem". Sheeeesh!

Unleash him to throw the ball down the field, rein in this stupid short passing game, and for the longer term, get some decent O Line personnel.

I agree with you that Rodgers is far from the problem with this offense right now but with his mobility limitations the short passing game seems to be more effective than having AR stand back there and wait for his receivers to get open down the field. I like our tackles and Bell had a decent game last week at RG. Getting a more effective running game today could ease some of this pressure too.

[Pugger]

It's all Dixie's fault. Every time a NASCAR highlight pops on on the tube, Miss Patrick is always a-barking at someone. She's made the Great Arm of Butte bitchy.

A-Rod, dude shoulda stayed with Yoko. Kids today and their skinny pants, they ain't know how awesome Lennon was when he was with Yoko. Awesome anthems like Working-Class Hero, Power to the People, Woman is the N-Word of the World, and the greatest song of all time, Imagine, were all composed when Lennon and Yoko were making heterogeneous offspring.

Its inane posts like this that remind us how ridiculous you can be. :lol:

[pbmax]

Wouldn't this argument also support that scheme or stubby's lack of it for the players he has is the problem?

He has a role, sure. But I am trying to square the debate over Adams use and the offense we've seen to date, both in its injured and healthy versions. Wanting to see Adams featured more after 14 targets is slightly weird. And it could be that Rodgers knew they weren't taking full advantage of the Bills D.

But I sense that he is chafing against an offense that is trying to protect him. Which to me means he wants the extended play, deep throw offense back. Doesn't want to run the quick game like the 2nd half against the Bears.

And I think that the results point to Rodgers fighting the scheme at times. Some of this is normal. No two QBs run an offense the same, so a particular QB will run an offense in a particular way.

But when Rodgers abandons the play (especially the shorter pass game) he is working against the best interests of this offense in its current form.

BTW, I thought that reply above would show Rodgers not even looking at the WR stack and just going to MVS. But dYoop is correct, Rodgers looks that way first, then decides to come back to the right. By itself, the play might not mean anything, Rodgers might just be trying to get the rook involved. But they can scheme Adams, Cobb or Allison open on that play all day. I think seeing more of it would be beneficial to the rest of the offense.

[pbmax]

I agree with you that Rodgers is far from the problem with this offense right now but with his mobility limitations the short passing game seems to be more effective than having AR stand back there and wait for his receivers to get open down the field. I like our tackles and Bell had a decent game last week at RG. Getting a more effective running game today could ease some of this pressure too.

Its only one game but Bell seems to me to be a better Guard than Tackle. He stood up pretty good.

[red]

i agree pb that this MIGHT be the problem. thats why i asked in the more banjo thread, if he was pissed because we were running so much and running short quick routes

he seems to be the one who audibles into these long slow developing plays, and the one why looks for the deep ball rather then the wide open short to mid route

this is why we need a strong head coach. someone who can convince a-rod that the other way is better. fat mike is not that coach, he just kinda lets a-rod do his own thing. and when the QB is the best in the NFL, i guess it would be hard to control

QB's can become too big for their own britches right under our nose without us even knowing (brett favre)

can it be fixed? should it be fixed? or do we just roll with it?

[red]

Its only one game but Bell seems to me to be a better Guard than Tackle. He stood up pretty good.

bell had a pretty good game from what i saw, and could just be the future at RG

[texaspackerbacker]

Who the hell is the imbecile who actually voted that Rodgers "is the problem"? Sheeeeeesh!

[Fritz]

I am Spartacus.

[mraynrand]

It’s really hard for me to believing eve there’s a lot of divisiveness between Stubby and Prima Rodgers. These guys scout other successful teams. No doubt Rodgers looks over at Brady and knows what has helped him survive all these years. And it hasn’t been scrambling around and taking sacks looking for the long ball every play. It’s a quick offense running game and some shots. If Rodgers is the problem then he and Stubby need to look at some more NE films straightaway.

[texaspackerbacker]

It’s really hard for me to believing eve there’s a lot of divisiveness between Stubby and Prima Rodgers. These guys scout other successful teams. No doubt Rodgers looks over at Brady and knows what has helped him survive all these years. And it hasn’t been scrambling around and taking sacks looking for the long ball every play. It’s a quick offense running game and some shots. If Rodgers is the problem then he and Stubby need to look at some more NE films straightaway.

If that were the case, Rodgers would be saying just how bad his O Line is. Or maybe it's better to shut up about it and not make them mad - just keep running for his life as he has to do on virtually every pass play. How can anybody watch a Patriots film for years and years and not see the excellent pass blocking Brady has gotten - and compare it to the shitty pass blocking Rodgers gets? This year, of course, Brady has gotten a taste of what Rodgers has had to put up with his whole career - and in those games, Brady has crashed down to earth big time.

[red]

chicken or the egg

does a-rod holding the ball forever and scrambling around in the pocket make the line look worse then it is? or does he do all that because the line is so bad?

there are a lot of times where he takes off and starts screwing around when there is no threat to him. would he be better off if he just stood there in the pocket the line makes for him ?

the offense does function much better when a-rod stands in the pocket and gets rid of the ball very quickly. and in those cases the line is doing exactly what they are suppose to be doing

[mraynrand]

It’s tiresome to listen to the horrible o-line people. By most measures the line is prettty good. You can even look it up (that comment is for the ‘counterpuncher’ who never looks anything up and pretty much bases everything he believes off his own faith). Brady has had some marginal linemen in front of him but they adjust by getting the ball out in under 2 seconds. Same thing with Brees. Watch his drops and mechanics - he is always prepared to throw. The NO passing offense is set up to get the ball out fast. The packers do this too from time to time and all three offenses are good at it because the QBs are highly accurate and will throw even to covered receivers.

[CaptainKickass]

I am Emmitt Smith

[mraynrand]

I am Emmitt Smith

That’s interesting because this morning on the tube Emmitt Smith said he wants to be called Captain Kickass from now on.

[mraynrand]

BTW, when Captain Munnerlyn is named team captain are his teammates required to call him ‘Captain my Captain’

[pbmax]

I don't think there is a lot of bad feeling between Rodgers and McCarthy, but I believe there is some separation between them about how to get the offense back to its formerly frightening form.

I could write a book here and probably get all the dates wrong, so we can save the history for later. I've probably posted it before.

Suffice it to say the the extended play offense has saved the team's O for a long time. The coach know this will not end well for him or the QB. The QB sees it as THE offense for the last 4-5 years.

M3 has to get AR to buy into the shorter game for longer periods. The extended offense can still happen, it just can't be the only way to score points.

So what makes this year different? The good news is that McCarthy seems to have taken some steps to getting people open quicker. Its not the Andy Reid/McVay offense, but it doesn't have to be. He keeps getting guys open plus a running game, a healthy Rodgers will get to take his shots as he will have more plays in better field position with a well oiled offense.

[George Cumby]

I am Jacks smirking revenge.

[Bossman641]

Red zone production. And negative plays. Too many sacks and penalties.

[Rastak]

I am Spartacus.


No, I am Spartacus.......I gotta watch that movie again sometime.


As for Rodgers, he ain't helping but he's not the problem overall.

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpA-ZgqUwAACk7-.jpg

[red]

the funny thing is that neither option is all that good looking

[gbgary]

https://media.giphy.com/media/fHu8kPxgIif5B1xxFU/giphy.gif

two guys open and he goes for the guy who isn't...and then barks at him. smh

[gbgary]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpA-ZgqUwAACk7-.jpg

exactly.

[mraynrand]

two guys open and he goes for the guy who isn't...and then barks at him. smh

He did learn something from Favre!

[mraynrand]

the funny thing is that neither option is all that good looking

This needed to be said.

[Carolina_Packer]

It's an interesting poll question. I had actually thought about this during this struggle. Are they struggling to adapt to the hand they have been dealt? I look at Drew Brees, and he and Sean Payton seem to take what the defense gives them. I think that is a wiser approach that could lead them to chunk plays. Plus, I like how they have so may different people involved in the offense, making them more versatile and less predictable. Brees seems fully in charge. I don't know about Rodgers at this point. I don't know what you think about body language, but he needs to get back to more R-E-L-A-X mindset, but with the knee injury, and his mobility issues affecting what he likes to do in the passing game, I think he's fighting reality. He needs some Zen. He needs to use his considerable talent and mind to find other ways to beat the opponent. He needs to show more leadership and instill confidence in his teammates.

[texaspackerbacker]

I was thinking also, it's about time for another dose of R-E-L-A-X. The first time around, I think Rodgers looked at the team and knew he'd have to take it upon himself to win, and he had plenty of confidence in his ability to do that. The difference - and frustration - now may be that with the injury, he might be doubting a little bit his ability to carry the team like before. There's also the frustrating factor, of course, that this many years later, the rest of the team is STILL saturated with mediocrity, and he STILL needs to carry so much of the load himself.

And 3 numbskulls in this poll actually blame him ....... at least it's up to 10 now with a lick of sense.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Part of the problem is the Packers don't trust their backup QB enough to sit Rodgers while he heals.
The Packers ought to be able to go 2-2-1 with a backup QB if they really are a contender.

PAckers need a backup who is as effective as a 75% Rodgers.

I thought going into the season that backup QB was a vulnerability.

[Rutnstrut]

Part of the problem is the Packers don't trust their backup QB enough to sit Rodgers while he heals.
The Packers ought to be able to go 2-2-1 with a backup QB if they really are a contender.

PAckers need a backup who is as effective as a 75% Rodgers.

I thought going into the season that backup QB was a vulnerability.


That is another coaching/GM screw up. TT and now Gut are so content to hope AR doesn't get injured that they never get a decent back up. Kind of stupid considering they also refuse to build a solid line to protect the somewhat fragile AR.

[Pugger]

Who the hell is the imbecile who actually voted that Rodgers "is the problem"? Sheeeeeesh!

It wasn't me and Rodgers isn't the main problem but he hasn't played well this year at times. He is not seeing the field like he has in the past. On other forums I've seen clips of him ignoring open players in front of him. It could be because he hadn't been practicing during the week after he hurt his knee. Let's hope he can this week.

[Pugger]

If that were the case, Rodgers would be saying just how bad his O Line is. Or maybe it's better to shut up about it and not make them mad - just keep running for his life as he has to do on virtually every pass play. How can anybody watch a Patriots film for years and years and not see the excellent pass blocking Brady has gotten - and compare it to the shitty pass blocking Rodgers gets? This year, of course, Brady has gotten a taste of what Rodgers has had to put up with his whole career - and in those games, Brady has crashed down to earth big time.

I thought the O line gave him time most of the time in Detroit. They could be better at run blocking tho...

[Pugger]

Part of the problem is the Packers don't trust their backup QB enough to sit Rodgers while he heals.
The Packers ought to be able to go 2-2-1 with a backup QB if they really are a contender.

PAckers need a backup who is as effective as a 75% Rodgers.

I thought going into the season that backup QB was a vulnerability.

But whom do you get? Any QB worth a damn is already on somebody's roster. Teams keep competent QBs even if they are backups and if the backups play decently they get traded to QB needy teams.

[Rutnstrut]

I thought the O line gave him time most of the time in Detroit. They could be better at run blocking tho...



Why? It's not like they will run the ball even if the line opens gaping holes.

[texaspackerbacker]

I thought the O line gave him time most of the time in Detroit. They could be better at run blocking tho...

True, there were way more plays with good pass blocking than usual - most of the time would be a stretch. However, way too many times, they let the D right through - including Bakhtiari screwing up so bad on the first strip sack.

[run pMc]

Anyone wonder if, Rodgers' performance/behavior is a consequence of the big contract extension?

Personally, I think McCarthy could call a better game, and Rodgers could play a better one too. I think his accuracy is off -- is that the knee? iffy mechanics? phantom injury? aliens stole his mojo? -- but as others pointed out he's been missing open receivers for years now. It happens, but it seems like it happens a LOT with him.

I'm not a big fan of the quick behind the LOS passes; maybe 2-3x a game, if the corners are playing too far off the line, or you have a 3rd and 3. When you have Aaron Jones you can probably get those yards too. I do think they've improved their scheme a little...but there's bad execution, and still a lot of holding the ball too long.

Personally, I'd be fine with them going with quick dink-and-dunk throws for 5 and 7 yards all the way down the field. Rodgers is (normally) accurate enough to hit 2/3 of those, so you move the chains, keep Fackrell off the field, and wear down the opposing defense. Plus you give guys like Adams and Cobb to break tackles and gash them. Sooner or later the defense adjusts and they can run the ball against a 6-7 man box. At that point your offense is probably in a really good rhythm so you can open it up and take some shots to MVS downfield.

I guess I'm advocating a timing based short passing game that sets up both the run and the deep passing game. Then again, I'm an idiot and so is Jon Gruden.

[pbmax]

Most of Rodgers accuracy problems come from young talent, lack of practice and new TE. Those will get better. But the tide is turning on Twitter against the QB, as I will show with a few video clips. Prepared to be mad at touchdown to checkdown!

[pbmax]

First, a picture of a missed open receiver. MVS is at the 45 and is kinda open. Now the Lions, despite the babbling Spielman, were doing a lot of switching between man and zone, but there are ways of figuring that out and being ready for it. But it would involve actual WR motion.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpB5czBW0AEiLK8.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Blown coverage and Adams open twice on slant. Never sees him.


https://media.giphy.com/media/p4wAoN4J9rpTkZlfNQ/giphy.gif

[pbmax]

Twitter tape eater is convinced this is footwork. But this also could be the disconnect between the TE and QB. Rodgers might be throwing to a spot on the sideline.


https://media.giphy.com/media/9PviFiKFiuV4uovsDn/giphy.gif

[Joemailman]

First, a picture of a missed open receiver. MVS is at the 45 and is kinda open. Now the Lions, despite the babbling Spielman, were doing a lot of switching between man and zone, but there are ways of figuring that out and being ready for it. But it would involve actual WR motion.




Any idea who he threw it to? Or what the down and distance was?

[pbmax]

Everyone is open but the guy who gets the ball thrown to him. Still way too in love with one on one outside.


https://media.giphy.com/media/830Fv8fhrpdcRrcSuH/giphy.gif

[pbmax]

Any idea who he threw it to? Or what the down and distance was?

Rolled out to his right and was tackled behind LOS. Fumbled OOB I think. He was gesturing for a receiver to move in a certain direction.

[Joemailman]

Blown coverage and Adams open twice on slant. Never sees him.


https://media.giphy.com/media/p4wAoN4J9rpTkZlfNQ/giphy.gif

Yikes. Adams might score if he gets the ball.

[red]

Any idea who he threw it to? Or what the down and distance was?

he also appears to be looking right at MVS, but not throwing to him

[red]

i think we've brought this up in years past, but his progession seems to be backwards, or else he's just not going through it

he seems to be locking on to that deep guy and if that doesn't work, we do the scramble drill, when he should be looking at shot to mid to long to dump off to scramble drill. or something more along those lines

if he's just locking on to the deep guy, then by the time he figures out if hes gonna get open or not, everyone else has run their routes and is just standing there waiting for him to start running

gotta take him back to QB 101, and get him to start looking at everyone

[Joemailman]

True, there were way more plays with good pass blocking than usual - most of the time would be a stretch. However, way too many times, they let the D right through - including Bakhtiari screwing up so bad on the first strip sack.

Rodgers held the ball for 5.2 seconds on that sack. That's on Rodgers.

[texaspackerbacker]

Bakhtiari missed his block in the first second of the play. That happens a LOT to Packer O Linemen. Usually Rodgers is mobile enough to scramble away from trouble even now with his injury. That time, the standard poor pass blocking bit the team in the ass.

I get fed up with stupid complaints about Rodgers not getting rid of the ball quick enough. His fantastically good record of few interceptions is directly related to not putting it up for grabs - as some in here seem to wish for.

[mraynrand]

^^^ All of that is consistent with Rodgers, pre-snap, looking at a particular guy and just not coming off. Even Nascar drivers have to let off the gas to round corners.

For example, "Blown coverage and Adams open twice on slant. Never sees him." - On this he has tunnel vision on the slot receiver, who beats his guy and has the TD - except the safety remains deep, but not totally committing. Rodgers, unsure, drops the check down. But because he had tunnel vision, he missed Adams. Also, loss of movement prevented him from bailing when Bulaga's block starting giving way.

[mraynrand]

Bakhtiari missed his block in the first second of the play.

Which one. I didn't see this on any of 'em

[Joemailman]

Which one. I didn't see this on any of 'em

Bakhtiari got beat to the inside, but because Rodgers was rolling to the right, he let the guy go rather than risk a penalty. The rusher was not near Rodgers at the time, and Bakhtiari had every reason to think the Rodgers would be able to get rid of the ball on time.

[mraynrand]

Bakhtiari got beat to the inside, but because Rodgers was rolling to the right, he let the guy go rather than risk a penalty. The rusher was not near Rodgers at the time, and Bakhtiari had every reason to think the Rodgers would be able to get rid of the ball on time.

Oh, I see. You're talking about the strip sack, not one of the videos/pics PBmax posted.

The O-line is fine. The 'counterpuncher' is just spouting again.

[pbmax]

For example, "Blown coverage and Adams open twice on slant. Never sees him." - On this he has tunnel vision on the slot receiver, who beats his guy and has the TD - except the safety remains deep, but not totally committing. Rodgers, unsure, drops the check down. But because he had tunnel vision, he missed Adams. Also, loss of movement prevented him from bailing when Bulaga's block starting giving way.

The blown coverage obviously changes things. For instance, there is a moment where it looks like the ILB will carry Adams on the slant, but he drops off once Rodgers takes note of the check down. But he is still open early.

But the WR stacked with Adams was never really open and had a safety deep PLUS the extra defender. The other WR got open on a seam but that is a timing throw to get the ball to him before he gets to safety depth.

The first read has to be the slant. That is a three step drop and throw.

Its not a clean play and because its unusual, I wouldn't expect this play to deliver 100% of the time because everything gets wonky fast. But two of his normal reads, the slant and the seam, both get open. And these quick progression reads are what he seems to be missing these days.

[mraynrand]

^^^ I don't know why he didn't take the slant - maybe his vision for it wasn't good over the tackle/guard block. Did he even see it??? But it does look like he's focusing on the seam receiver but doesn't pull the trigger early enough. Maybe it's just hesitation because (assuming it's the knee/brace) he's lost some confidence knowing his accuracy is off. That might explain the flat toss to MVS when two other routes were open on fourth down - inaccuracy down and away to the sideline can't get picked, but high or wide over the middle does. ???

[pbmax]

This is the problem in a nutshell. If you can do this with a bum leg, why throw short to Graham?

The other thing here is, the Packers O line is not a tire fire this year, but its not airtight as its been in other seasons with these tackles and center. That alone might argue for the short, quick offense.


https://media.giphy.com/media/1qciPsWcFr3shdqR5k/giphy.gif

[pbmax]

Speaking of GIFs from Twitter video, the ezgif.com site does wonders for converting to GIF, but it no longer seamlessly reads the video in a Tweet link. It just senses the text.

Does anyone know how how to pull the URL for just the Twitter video or have another site that does the translation necessary AND coverts it to GIF?

Because right now its three step process, download Twitter video (google it), ezgif to GIF it, then upload to Giphy.

Thanks in advance for any tips.

[mraynrand]

^^^. But that’s the classic crossing routes (without an actual rub). Rodgers didn’t go to TE because the LB was dropping. Rodgers also could have thrown that earlier in the pattern.

[mraynrand]

He gets that out with better pace, it’s a TD.

[pbmax]

He gets that out with better pace, it’s a TD.

If Adams catches it clean. That was the triple bobble catch.

[run pMc]

ugh..watching these makes me mad. There were a LOT of yards and points left on the field there.

Rodgers was late on a completion to MVS as well - Rodgers looked him off then came back to him and threw to him complete, but by then his momentum took him out of bounds. Throwing it to him in his first open window would have given more room for MVS to run after the catch, which for a guy that big/fast would have appeal.

[run pMc]

If Adams catches it clean. That was the triple bobble catch.

Adams bobbled a couple of catches, which seemed weird to me. Kudos to him for having a pretty big game on a sore calf.

[gbgary]

unless someone is wide open deep why go to him if it's not necessary? go quick, short. move the chains. eat up the clock. give our d a break.

[pbmax]

unless someone is wide open deep why go to him if it's not necessary? go quick, short. move the chains. eat up the clock. give our d a break.

When its working going deep basically delivers more points. Also keeps the defense honest.

The problem is its become the default and they refuse to take what is given freely. Then, in second and third and long, the defense pushes forward, necessitating throws behind the LOS.

[Carolina_Packer]

Who doesn't want to score more points? It would be awesome to have the same proficiency on offense as 2011 and 2014, but that's not where the offense is currently. One of the current big issues on offense is the slow starts in multiple games. If they would take the singles hitter approach to start the games and not the Earl Weaver "what problem is not solved with a 3 run homer approach", they could be more diverse, make drives last longer instead of the risk of being feast or famine, and if you control the clock on offense, the defense benefits. That may not be as sexy, but it's winning football. Can/will MM and ARod take that approach?

[pbmax]

Who doesn't want to score more points? It would be awesome to have the same proficiency on offense as 2011 and 2014, but that's not where the offense is currently. One of the current big issues on offense is the slow starts in multiple games. If they would take the singles hitter approach to start the games and not the Earl Weaver "what problem is not solved with a 3 run homer approach", they could be more diverse, make drives last longer instead of the risk of being feast or famine, and if you control the clock on offense, the defense benefits. That may not be as sexy, but it's winning football. Can/will MM and ARod take that approach?

I think this is basically the story of the offense since 2012. The no huddle gave some life to it in 2013/14* but the basic features of the offensive battle are laid out here.

The defenses they faced decided Jones and Nelson were too dangerous to leave to one on one very often and adjusted. The Packers adopted the no huddle, but the basic approach hasn't changed except for very short behind the LOS patterns.

There has been a consistent refusal (except for injuries) to rein in touchdown to check down and the long passing game and take, by design, what defenses are giving you underneath. And no one has changed the approach now that the receiver corp is less frightening deep.

The very worrisome part is now McCarthy seems to be buying into it (somewhat) but Rodgers, as he gets healthier, does not.


*Should be noted for comparison sake, the great offensive slowdown era produced a QB MVP in 2014. So this is all relative. Packers still not the Titans or Texans.

Doesn't apply to dominant era Seattle D (just played single high and dared you to wait to throw it deep) or Zimmer defenses. Should also note that since the heyday of the Legion of Boom, the Packers have regularly dismantled Pete Carrol's defense.

[Rutnstrut]

unless someone is wide open deep why go to him if it's not necessary? go quick, short. move the chains. eat up the clock. give our d a break.

You mean play Patriot football? That's not how stubby and AR want to win.

[mraynrand]

the Earl Weaver "what problem is not solved with a 3 run homer approach"

That was awesome.

[pbmax]

That was awesome.

That approach is back in vogue.

#LaunchAngle!

[mraynrand]

That approach is back in vogue.

#LaunchAngle!

Ya, I suppose. I don't follow baseball all that much. But I did enjoy the flashback to the 70's/80's, thinking about the Oriols of '79 - '83. Didn't Weaver lose the WS in '79 then have a stroke or something in '83. He had to almost die or something for them to win again?? (Didn't look it up).

[pbmax]

Ya, I suppose. I don't follow baseball all that much. But I did enjoy the flashback to the 70's/80's, thinking about the Oriols of '79 - '83. Didn't Weaver lose the WS in '79 then have a stroke or something in '83. He had to almost die or something for them to win again?? (Didn't look it up).

Don't remember anything about his health, but I know he and Palmer had to patch things up to be in a booth together, so maybe something like that spurred them on.

I just remember thinking it was weird that Earl Weaver, who was a terror to watch and play against, became this warm and fuzzy guy in the booth. He looked like a maniac on the field. Kicking dirt onto umpires and throwing bases.