Official Fire Mike McCarthy Thread

[George Cumby]

MM was given a 1 year extension last offseason so 2018 would not be a lame duck year for him. That made 2018 a prove it year for him. I think you now have to make a coaching change or offer him an extension. Does anyone want an extension at this point?

I will stop any sort of pretense of following the team if he comes back.

[Joemailman]

I will stop any sort of pretense of following the team if he comes back.

Pretty much the same here. I'm past believing things will get better if he he stays. I suspect most of the players, especially on offense, feel the same. Murphy, who was a player, can see that. Which is why he will be gone.

[mraynrand]

It’s hard for me to think they want him back as they are scuttling the roster yet are not really openly admitting it. If they wanted to keep ol Stubbers they would have grudgingly admitted that while they are still expecting to win, they are clearly working to ‘revitalize’ the roster. TT did the same thing to Sherman. Taken from another perspective, turning over the roster ensures that Stubby can’t win and gives them a clear pretext to fire him that fans not only will not object to, but that they will openly cheer.

Rodgers may not be tanking games but perhaps he knows what’s going on and really isn’t struggling too hard. He knew all along that post season play was a pipe dream and may be playing so as to get rid of stubby. Note the total lack of ‘RELAX’ language this year. They know what’s happening.

[beveaux1]

Quick question re: the road losses: which teams (specifically NE, LAR, MN, SEA) have worse talent than the Packers. Be honest and line 'em up across the board. Which teams have QBs being outplayed by Rodgers? Do the Packers have a well stocked defense with multiple pro bowl players? Who are their difference-makers? If you find yourself saying "Gee, the Packers really have a mostly depleted defense and a pretty marginal offense with a historically underperforming QB" you might begin to wonder about whether the problem is mostly coaching or mostly personnel. My point is that EVERYONE around the NFL thinks the Packers win because Rodgers plays great football, not because they are loaded with talent. And this year, the cupboard is almost completely bare, and Rodgers is mostly playing like a slightly above average NFL starter. So whose fault is that?

Absolutely true. On offense, we have an all pro WR, a good RB who is smallish and has been nicked up in the past, two late round rookie WRs, an over-the-hill but better than average TE with two JAG backups. We have a beat up but still better than average RT, a JAG RG, an all pro center, a JAG LG, and the best pass blocking LT in the league with 2 bad knees rendering him vulnerable. The backups are below JAG level. At QB, we have an all world talent who has been outplayed by Goff, Cousins, Alex Smith, etc. in face to face meetings. With this level of talent, we need our incredibly talented QB to play to his usual level of play. That of one of the three best QBs in football. Instead, he's playing at Dak Prescott level football albeit with only one interception. Although to be fair, he has a number of drive killing fumbles which should be counted in his quarterback rating. I'm not letting MM off the hook, but I haven't heard him blast the QB, the highest paid player on the team, for his mistakes, which have been many by his exacting standards.


A new offense with a new coach may be what this team needs, but if the QB performs at the level he's been performing this year, it will be a long time before we sniff the playoffs.

[Joemailman]

It’s hard for me to think they want him back as they are scuttling the roster yet are not really openly admitting it. If they wanted to keep ol Stubbers they would have grudgingly admitted that while they are still expecting to win, they are clearly working to ‘revitalize’ the roster. TT did the same thing to Sherman. Taken from another perspective, turning over the roster ensures that Stubby can’t win and gives them a clear pretext to fire him that fans not only will not object to, but that they will openly cheer.

Rodgers may not be tanking games but perhaps he knows what’s going on and really isn’t struggling too hard. He knew all along that post season play was a pipe dream and may be playing so as to get rid of stubby. Note the total lack of ‘RELAX’ language this year. They know what’s happening.
Players haven't stopped trying, but have probably stopped believing. When your top players no longer believe that the coach's ideas can lead the team to success, it's over.

[ZachMN]

Jason Wilde was just on here in Mpls and he said that MM's offense is predicated on winning one on one battles which is fine when you have the talent. I am sure some of you already knew this but it told me MM is the large part of the problem. A good coach adapts to what he has and makes it work. There are circumstances when you can build a team to your preferences but in light of the way the league works and the reality of the defenses you are going against is this a good philosophy?

[pbmax]

Quick question re: the road losses: which teams (specifically NE, LAR, MN, SEA) have worse talent than the Packers. Be honest and line 'em up across the board. Which teams have QBs being outplayed by Rodgers? Do the Packers have a well stocked defense with multiple pro bowl players? Who are their difference-makers? If you find yourself saying "Gee, the Packers really have a mostly depleted defense and a pretty marginal offense with a historically underperforming QB" you might begin to wonder about whether the problem is mostly coaching or mostly personnel. My point is that EVERYONE around the NFL thinks the Packers win because Rodgers plays great football, not because they are loaded with talent. And this year, the cupboard is almost completely bare, and Rodgers is mostly playing like a slightly above average NFL starter. So whose fault is that?

They play good teams tough enough to convince me there is better talent available that a sub 500 team. They can play better D than the Rams or Patriots, but they are young and inured so there are breakdowns. They don't have Seattle's D. They are more talented offensively (but not more effective) than NE and pretty even with the Vikes.

Some of that is scheme, like McCarthy's scripted plays, which Silverstein says are tailored to Rodgers preferences for scheming certain things open. This was an adjustment made after they fell behind by double digits versus Wash and Detroit.

But once the game plan is used up, the base stuff fails to deliver. Same happens to the defense, though Pettine has rescued his D with 2nd half adjustments. The offenses only answer in the 2nd half is a scrambling comeback.

The talent isn't the same as it was in 2014. But its not a bare cupboard.

If they can make that drive late in the Vikings game with medium, quick and on-time throws, the question is where is that offense the rest of the time they are scuffling?

Rodgers is the talent. Its the coaches job to set him up. If the quick stuff works, they need to call it. Yet they insist on looking for one on one matchups down the sideline despite repeated misfires.

[mraynrand]

Jason Wilde was just on here in Mpls and he said that MM's offense is predicated on winning one on one battles which is fine when you have the talent....There are circumstances when you can build a team to your preferences but in light of the way the league works and the reality of the defenses you are going against is this a good philosophy?

This is a common line of complaint, and it has it's merits, but at some point, you have to stop and say "Hey wait a minute, any offense worth it's spit kinda relies on guys winning one-on-one battles, all over the offense, from linemen, to running backs, to WRs." Other teams get beat because they have only one outstanding skill player and defenses take that guy away, leaving other guys who can't win 1on1 battles. MN wins 1on1's with two WRs and a TE. Some scheming helps, but ultimately, you have to have talent to win battles and a QB who can consistently deliver the ball on time with accuracy. Packers right now are lower than they've been in all three areas.

[mraynrand]

They play good teams tough enough to convince me there is better talent available that a sub 500 team.

but you could argue that they play them close because of coaching lesser talent up, no?

Do the roster line-up D and O and tell me whether the Packers come out on top. But be fair about how the doubly injured Rodgers and the three rookies in the secondary, etc. etc. are really playing.

[wist43]

McCarthy is as good as gone, and I think that's a good thing.

The league has caught up to his offense, and he refuses to adjust... he wrote his own ticket out of town.

[pbmax]

but you could argue that they play them close because of coaching lesser talent up, no?



I could. On ether side of the ball. But I think the script versus basic playbook tilts the evidence against McCarthy. Haven't made up my mind about Pettine yet.

Now that doesn't explain why Rodgers is suddenly struggling with accuracy or playing like he has forgotten how to read a progression. But I do think there is a plausible explanation, though its impossible to prove.

The only explanation I have read that makes sense to me (among those not making sense are 1) Rodgers is a coach killer, 2) Rodgers is old, 3) Rodgers is too hurt currently) is that Rodgers and McCarthy had a break sometime in 2015 when what formerly were Rodgers tweaks to the offense because THE offense, the only one that worked over the extended O downturn. And that became the extended offense. If you want an example, think about the ineptitude of the Packer offense late in the Cowboys playoff game. Rodgers made 2 or 3 ridiculous plays to lead the Packers to that win. If you subtract some health, O line pass pro and receivers from that offense add some QB downturn, you get dreck.

One reason I am not worried about Rodgers future is the yards per attempt figure. After a decline from absurd heights in 2011 (with upticks in 2014), he is trending back up. Which means he is being effective again down the field though the offense doesn't have many points to show for it.



Year Cmp Att Cmp% Y/A AY/A Rate QBR NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
2010 312 475 65.7 8.3 8.4 101.2 69.2 7.37 7.50 6.1 0 1 15
2011*+ 343 502 68.3 9.2 10.5 122.5 84.5 8.22 9.39 6.7 0 1 23
2012* 371 552 67.2 7.8 8.5 108.0 71.2 6.64 7.33 8.5 2 3 16
2013 193 290 66.6 8.7 9.0 104.9 60.6 7.78 8.00 6.8 1 1 9
2014*+ 341 520 65.6 8.4 9.5 112.2 78.3 7.68 8.65 5.1 1 1 21
2015* 347 572 60.7 6.7 7.1 92.7 60.3 5.67 6.10 7.4 2 2 14
2016* 401 610 65.7 7.3 8.1 104.2 73.8 6.48 7.24 5.4 0 2 18
2017 154 238 64.7 7.0 7.2 97.2 64.4 5.80 5.99 8.5 2 2 7
2018 255 413 61.7 7.9 8.8 101.7 52.4 6.80 7.59 7.6 2 2
Care 3443 5308 64.9 7.9 8.5 103.6 6.87 7.42 7.0 13 19 157


Provided by Pro-Football-Reference.com (https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): View Original Table (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00.htm?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#passing)
Generated 11/26/2018.

[pbmax]

Rodgers is missing reads and opportunities that he hasn't before which is killing 3rd down efficiency and red zone numbers,

But his play hasn't fallen off a cliff. The O is slightly less talented and McCarthy hasn't gotten the offense and Rodgers to adjust.

That is on the coach.

[gbgary]

Rodgers is missing reads and opportunities that he hasn't before which is killing 3rd down efficiency and red zone numbers,

But his play hasn't fallen off a cliff. The O is slightly less talented and McCarthy hasn't gotten the offense and Rodgers to adjust.

That is on the coach.

yup. whoever the new coach is is going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. i hope they're hungry and up to the challenge for the long hall...if they're allowed to go the long hall.

[Joemailman]

yup. whoever the new coach is is going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. i hope they're hungry and up to the challenge for the long hall...if they're allowed to go the long hall.

There doesn't need to be a long haul. It's a very fine difference between winning and losing in the NFL. Look at Philly the last few years:

2016: 7-9
2017: 13-3 and Super Bowl Champs
2018: 5-6

Packers need to fix their 3rd and 4th down conversion rates on offense. That's their biggest problem. That doesn't require a 4 year plan.

[Joemailman]

Updated odds to be the next NFL head coach fired (@betonline_ag):

Mike McCarthy +400
Todd Bowles +425
Steve Wilks +450
John Harbaugh +500
Vance Joseph +700
Dirk Koetter +700
Doug Marrone +800
Adam Gase +1000
Pat Shurmur +1000
Sean McDermott +2500

[Bossman641]

There doesn't need to be a long haul. It's a very fine difference between winning and losing in the NFL. Look at Philly the last few years:

2016: 7-9
2017: 13-3 and Super Bowl Champs
2018: 5-6

Packers need to fix their 3rd and 4th down conversion rates on offense. That's their biggest problem. That doesn't require a 4 year plan.

Agreed, for all their struggles the offense still has the key positions filled in qb/lt/#1 wr. There's a lot to do elsewhere in both offense and defense but a lot of money will be freed up between cobb/cm3 and possibly perry/graham

[pbmax]

Updated odds to be the next NFL head coach fired (@betonline_ag):

Mike McCarthy +400
Todd Bowles +425
Steve Wilks +450
John Harbaugh +500
Vance Joseph +700
Dirk Koetter +700
Doug Marrone +800
Adam Gase +1000
Pat Shurmur +1000
Sean McDermott +2500

Wait, is that the money line? Doesn't that mean M3 is least likely in the list to be fired?

[pbmax]

Wait, is that the money line? Doesn't that mean M3 is least likely in the list to be fired?

If it works like a game, you would need to bet $2,500 to win $100 when Sean McDermott is fired.

[Joemailman]

Wait, is that the money line? Doesn't that mean M3 is least likely in the list to be fired?

No. I believe it means if you bet $100 MM gets fired, you win $400.

[pbmax]

No. I believe it means if you bet $100 MM gets fired, you win $400.

The original article does state explicitly that McCarthy is leading candidate to get the boot. But that notation really through me off. In a money line bet on a game, it might be Packers +130, Cardinals +105 or something like that. You need to bet $130 to get $100 for a Packers win, or $105 to get $100 for a Cardinals upset.

[pbmax]

No one ever blames the coach for overstepping his authority:


The best reason to allow Gutekunst to make the decision on his own is that Murphy let McCarthy dictate who his boss would be when Thompson was removed from his position. Murphy wanted to hire a true general manager, but McCarthy, according to a source, told his coaches that he would quit if Murphy hired Ball in that capacity, so Murphy changed his mind and created the new structure.

Solomonic wisdom rarely works well in day to day hiring.

The article blasts Rodgers for making faces and gestures and quotes former players. Funny it had none of Davante Adams quotes about how he knows exactly when Rodgers is miffed about his own play or a mistake out in a route. Doesn't seem hard to parse for a contemporary.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/11/27/silverstein-future-packers-mccarthy-should-gutekunsts-call/2126851002/

[Joemailman]

The original article does state explicitly that McCarthy is leading candidate to get the boot. But that notation really through me off. In a money line bet on a game, it might be Packers +130, Cardinals +105 or something like that. You need to bet $130 to get $100 for a Packers win, or $105 to get $100 for a Cardinals upset.


Understanding American Odds
American Odds Explained
As the name suggests, American Odds are mostly popular with sportsbooks here in the United States. American sports betting odds work differently for favorites and underdogs, and are sometimes known as Moneyline Odds.

American odds for betting on a favorite work by showing how much money you would have to risk in order to win $100. Let’s illustrate that concept with some football odds…

Example:

The Miami Dolphins are -110 to win Sunday’s gamePlacing a successful $110 bet on them yields $100 winnings You also get you original $110 bet backTotal payout = $210

Things are a little different when betting on an underdog, in that the positive number shows how much you can win if you risk $100. You may notice that this is similar to 'odds-on' bets in UK markets.

Example:

The Buffalo Bills have odds of +240 this SundayPlacing a successful $100 bet will yield $240 winnings You also get your $100 bet backTotal payout = $340.

[bobblehead]

The original article does state explicitly that McCarthy is leading candidate to get the boot. But that notation really through me off. In a money line bet on a game, it might be Packers +130, Cardinals +105 or something like that. You need to bet $130 to get $100 for a Packers win, or $105 to get $100 for a Cardinals upset.

No, a plus bet means you win that if you bet 100. A minus means you bet that amount to win 100. -130 means that you bet 130 to win 100. Plus 130 means you bet 100 to win 130. Think this way. Plus means they need to pay you plus money to get you to bet it. Minus means they get to pay you less money if you bet it.

[pbmax]

I'm cancelling the trip to Vegas.

[Pugger]

There doesn't need to be a long haul. It's a very fine difference between winning and losing in the NFL. Look at Philly the last few years:

2016: 7-9
2017: 13-3 and Super Bowl Champs
2018: 5-6

Packers need to fix their 3rd and 4th down conversion rates on offense. That's their biggest problem. That doesn't require a 4 year plan.

this

[pbmax]

Some changes to the Browns offense since the purge. Honestly, the route concepts are fine, but two of the videos show Manziel, I mean Mayfield, running an extended break out of the pocket offense. However, the double slant for the TD in the red zone should be stolen immediately.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/27/the-all-22-how-new-offensive-coordinator-freddie-kitchens-became-the-browns-mvp/2/

[mraynrand]

Comparing Manziel and Mayfield is pure evil. Get thee away from me, Satan! :)

[gbgary]

There doesn't need to be a long haul. It's a very fine difference between winning and losing in the NFL. Look at Philly the last few years:

2016: 7-9
2017: 13-3 and Super Bowl Champs
2018: 5-6



Packers need to fix their 3rd and 4th down conversion rates on offense. That's their biggest problem. That doesn't require a 4 year plan.

this is Green Bay not Phi or LA or KC. GB doesn't have a coachable qb on a rookie contract...and 3rd/4th down isn't their biggest problem. talent, depth, and ego are. this off-season the Packers are going to have to fix edge, multiple lb and o-line, safety, possibly wr and cb, issues. all that AND a new coach with a completely new offensive system (hopefully they keep Pettine). when it comes to free agency they'll have to pay more because it's GB. it's going to take guts and money (both dicey commodities) to win in the short term (which is all the Rodgers window has left). nope...it's going to take more than one season to fix this mess.

[Fritz]

I think they should just fire Starr. I know he was one of the greats, but his best season as coach has been that 8-7-1 year, and I think he was the one who hand-picked Rich Campbell. That Joe Montana guy from Notre Dame looks like he might pan out in SF.

I think they should either go after a successful NFL head coach - hell, Forrest Gregg's taken Cinci to a Super Bowl - or start over with an innovative offensive coordinator, like Lindy Infante. He's very forward-thinking regarding the passing game.

[Joemailman]

this is Green Bay not Phi or LA or KC. GB doesn't have a coachable qb on a rookie contract...and 3rd/4th down isn't their biggest problem. talent, depth, and ego are. this off-season the Packers are going to have to fix edge, multiple lb and o-line, safety, possibly wr and cb, issues. all that AND a new coach with a completely new offensive system (hopefully they keep Pettine). when it comes to free agency they'll have to pay more because it's GB. it's going to take guts and money (both dicey commodities) to win in the short term (which is all the Rodgers window has left). nope...it's going to take more than one season to fix this mess.

You been spending time with Wist?

[Pugger]

this is Green Bay not Phi or LA or KC. GB doesn't have a coachable qb on a rookie contract...and 3rd/4th down isn't their biggest problem. talent, depth, and ego are. this off-season the Packers are going to have to fix edge, multiple lb and o-line, safety, possibly wr and cb, issues. all that AND a new coach with a completely new offensive system (hopefully they keep Pettine). when it comes to free agency they'll have to pay more because it's GB. it's going to take guts and money (both dicey commodities) to win in the short term (which is all the Rodgers window has left). nope...it's going to take more than one season to fix this mess.

Do you really believe Rodgers in now uncoachable?

[scharpcheddar]

Do you really believe Rodgers in now uncoachable?

just sports propaganda.sports is tmz crap

[pbmax]

I think they should just fire Starr. I know he was one of the greats, but his best season as coach has been that 8-7-1 year, and I think he was the one who hand-picked Rich Campbell. That Joe Montana guy from Notre Dame looks like he might pan out in SF.

I think they should either go after a successful NFL head coach - hell, Forrest Gregg's taken Cinci to a Super Bowl - or start over with an innovative offensive coordinator, like Lindy Infante. He's very forward-thinking regarding the passing game.


Neo Ted gets that life has iterations, often repeating itself, looking for an alternative that don't always arrive.

[gbgary]

Do you really believe Rodgers in now uncoachable?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&xid=socialflow_twitter_si


McCarthy is the play caller, but because Rodgers is so intelligent and such a good improvisational player, the quarterback has the green light to change plays on the field as he see fit. He does, so often that it can be hard for McCarthy to get into a rhythm as the play caller. McCarthy might call the same play three times in a game, without the play actually being run as he called it. And if McCarthy calls a play that Rodgers doesn’t like early in the game, that can sour the mood for the rest of the game. Several sources familiar with the inner workings of the organization say that it devolved into a competition over who can call the better play, and both want the credit when things go right.

[pbmax]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&xid=socialflow_twitter_si

So the coach gave him the authority to change the call and now regrets it.

Why doesn't he take it back? Limit it to certain bad looks?

Because they have fallen into a pattern and neither wants it interrupted.

[pbmax]

About GBGary's article: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&xid=socialflow_twitter_si

Paragraph 6: why didn't we sign Marshawn Lynch, Randy Moss and Tony Gonzalez!?
Source: Andrew Brandt, John Schneider and Tank
Comment: What decade are talking about? Two of these guys are retired and the other is finished. Also, not moving on any of them is doing a lot of work to mislead instead of saying failed to sign. Packers made offers for each one.

Paragraph 7: Loud guys
Source: This is so dumb I can only assume Joe Arrigo.
Comment: Proof that this is true? Martellus Bennett, who they SIGNED!

Paragraph 8: No owner, led to complacency
Source: Mike Florio
Comment: You know all those quality owners who demand changes to the regime after 8 straight trips to the playoffs.

Paragraph 9: Take care of the football thing ~ Wolf
Source: Schneider, McKenzie, Dorsey or McCloughan
Comment: What else are we thinking Ted was focused on?

Paragraph 10: Team rules are byzantine.
Source: Who the hell cares?
Comment: No backwards hats. no undershirts showing under practice jerseys. Tidying up lockers. Man, I don't know how to make sense of this complexity.

Paragraph 12: “It’s an insane level of control,” says one person close to the organization. “No fun, it’s all about the Packer brand and being a vice president. The most important people in the organization are the VPs. The players and all that, that comes later.”
Source: Anyone have a guess?
Comment: Someone is mad at Russ Ball, who is the only VP mentioned and he gets the spotlight in the paragraph immediately prior to this


:roll:

We'll get to the Rodgers-McCarthy stuff in a second.

[pbmax]

This is amazing, and how you get 4th quarter comebacks. But its also bad for the team. McCarthy doesn't always get to see the check the QB makes at the line (line of sight problem, paying attention to other things, adjustments that the QB room has decided on during the week that McCarthy misses because of HC duties, sideline discussion)


Because Rodgers has so much freedom, McCarthy’s frustration often comes from not knowing what check his quarterback went to and why. Kizer and Boyle have typically been in more conversations with Rodgers throughout the week, and sometimes explain his decisions to McCarthy in order to better set up future play calls. Early in the fourth quarter in Detroit this season, the Packers offense was running no huddle. Rodgers and Kizer had a few conversations on the sideline before the series about wanting to create matchup issues with Lions cornerback Darius Slay, bringing Adams inside, rather than lining him up outside. The QBs decided on a series of three playcalls focused on Adams, having him run crossers or sit down in the flat to eventually set up an out route that resulted in a red-zone touchdown. McCarthy wasn’t part of those conversations, so the quarterbacks explained that series to him afterward.

[pbmax]

This is possible, but I don't really buy this explanation. Van Pelt didn't have the backups ready and someone needed to go. The reason I leave some room for this to be possible is that hiring Frank Cignetti was the least inspired choice ever.


When asked why they think Van Pelt is no longer in Green Bay, several sources close to the team say they believe, because Van Pelt had Rodgers’s ear, McCarthy saw him as a threat.

[gbgary]

So the coach gave him the authority to change the call and now regrets it.

Why doesn't he take it back? Limit it to certain bad looks?

Because they have fallen into a pattern and neither wants it interrupted.

once MM allowed that genie out of the bottle there was no putting it back. some flexibility is good but wholesale ability to change things is bad. that's one reason i say the new coach is going to be between a rock and a hard place. reeling in the prima donna is going to be near impossible...and we already know he's not shy about calling out the coach.

[pbmax]

once MM allowed that genie out of the bottle there was no putting it back. some flexibility is good but wholesale ability to change things is bad. that's one reason i say the new coach is going to be between a rock and a hard place. reeling in the prima donna is going to be near impossible...and we already know he's not shy about calling out the coach.

That is the fault of the coach. Full stop. He wanted out of bad looks and gave Rodgers the freedom to call whatever he wanted.

One of the jobs of a head coach is to find a way to coach your best player. If this is an actual problem (and not just complaining to the press) then he has failed.

New coach just needs to install a new offense and give him limited options.

[Smidgeon]

The more I think about this, the more I'm coming around to believe that M3 isn't done because of a stale offense but because of his inability to coach up his best player.

[gbgary]

That is the fault of the coach. Full stop. He wanted out of bad looks and gave Rodgers the freedom to call whatever he wanted.

One of the jobs of a head coach is to find a way to coach your best player. If this is an actual problem (and not just complaining to the press) then he has failed.

New coach just needs to install a new offense and give him limited options.

agreed. what coach is going to want to take that on though. Rodgers will make a crack about how he wasn't allowed to change something and away we go.

[pbmax]

agreed. what coach is going to want to take that on though. Rodgers will make a crack about how he wasn't allowed to change something and away we go.

Coaches can convince themselves of a lot of things that seem non-sensical. Changing a players behavior from turd to blossom, getting a first round draft pick bust to perform.

Rodgers offers a coach a lot even if there are going to be headaches. Even Jimmy Johnson signed up with Dan Marino.

[George Cumby]

Great stuff PB, I'm glad you have the energy to sift through all that noise, I certainly don't.

For me it comes down to the team doesn't look sharp, hungry or motivated, they aren't playing particularly well and McCarthy looks flummoxed and bemused most of the time.

Time to cut the..........fat?

[mraynrand]

When asked why they think Van Pelt is no longer in Green Bay, several sources close to the team say they believe, because Van Pelt had Rodgers’s ear, McCarthy saw him as a threat.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PaVk9Kzjvo

I think Rodgers' and Van Pelts' hugs were uncomfortably long

[mraynrand]

Time to cut the..........fat?

https://i.giphy.com/media/FrajBDPikVqBG/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

[texaspackerbacker]

There's a whole lot of bullshit and idiocy being spewed in this thread.

[Fritz]

There's a whole lot of bullshit and idiocy being spewed in this thread.

You think they should Starr another year to turn it around?

[texaspackerbacker]

???

[mraynrand]

You think they should Starr another year to turn it around?

"Fresh Start With Bart"

for Stubby: "The Fat is Back for the Pack in '19"

[mraynrand]

McCarthy's wife's bumper sticker:

"Chubby Stubby is my Hubby" (or variations thereof you sickos)

[George Cumby]

There's a whole lot of bullshit and idiocy being spewed in this thread.

You would know.

[gbgary]

Do you really believe Rodgers in now uncoachable?

coachability...i was listening to Milwaukee radio, 105.7 the fan on the radio.com app...the Bill Michaels Show and The Big Show (which includes Leroy Butler and Gary Ellerson), and they had several guests, with knowledge of the situation at 1265, and that was a big part of the discussion. lots of concern about it.

[Rutnstrut]

Do you really believe Rodgers in now uncoachable?



Yes, you can see from his interviews this year that he thinks his shit doesn't stink.

[Fritz]

Is it better to think your shit does stink, but you enjoy the smell?

[Pugger]

Yes, you can see from his interviews this year that he thinks his shit doesn't stink.

What exactly does he say/do that makes you think this? I don't think he is any different than other QBs when interviewed.

[esoxx]

See ya Fat Mike.

[Rutnstrut]

What exactly does he say/do that makes you think this? I don't think he is any different than other QBs when interviewed.

His little quips and smirks. Plus all his pointing, glaring, and pouting during games. He makes shitty throws, and always tries to blame someone else.

[red]

Do you really believe Rodgers in now uncoachable?

yes

the SI aticle has now convinced me 100%

a-rod is changing a majority of the plays at the line, throwing off fat fucks complete gameplan. a-rod is the reason every single play is devolving into throwing the ball to the endzone

which coach is a-rod gonna respect enough to just run their system?

after all these years of being allowed to do whatever the hell he wants, theres no way rodgers goes back to the old way

mccarthy made this monster, now its uncontrollable

[Rutnstrut]

yes

the SI aticle has now convinced me 100%

a-rod is changing a majority of the plays at the line, throwing off fat fucks complete gameplan. a-rod is the reason every single play is devolving into throwing the ball to the endzone

which coach is a-rod gonna respect enough to just run their system?

after all these years of being allowed to do whatever the hell he wants, theres no way rodgers goes back to the old way

mccarthy made this monster, now its uncontrollable




If he thinks he is above the team, you trade his ass.

[denverYooper]

They should fire M3 before he leaves the stadium today.

[Joemailman]

If he thinks he is above the team, you trade his ass.

Can't trade him because of his contract. You can bench him. I think he would respond well to a different coach.

[red]

Can't trade him because of his contract. You can bench him. I think he would respond well to a different coach.

gonna have to be someone he hand picks

[Joemailman]

gonna have to be someone he hand picks

That would be the worst think they could do.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

gonna have to be someone he hand picks

Gruden holds a boatload of 1st rounders. A packerrats poster once told me that getting rid of Rodgers after this season would cost a $60 M cap hit - Daughterty said only 30.

4 1sts and Derick Carr for A-Rod? The Prodigal Son gets to go home.

[ThunderDan]

Can't trade him because of his contract. You can bench him. I think he would respond well to a different coach.

Of course they can trade him but why would you. Do t let ARod have anything to do with the new coaching hire.

[Rastak]

What exactly does he say/do that makes you think this? I don't think he is any different than other QBs when interviewed.

To me it's body language all the way, which of course could be misinterpreted.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Wait, the Raiders are leaving Oakland, right?

[gbgary]

They should fire M3 before he leaves the stadium today.

no reason to leave him dangling the rest of the season.

[Joemailman]

no reason to leave him dangling the rest of the season.

Firing him now would accomplish nothing, other that increase the burden on the other coaches. Besides, although his tenure here needs to end this year, he's one of the Packers most successful head coaches. He deserves to finish the season.

[gbgary]

Firing him now would accomplish nothing, other that increase the burden on the other coaches. Besides, although his tenure here needs to end this year, he's one of the Packers most successful head coaches. He deserves to finish the season.

because he is one of their most successful coaches he doesn't have to have the stress on him, or on his family, that this month will bring. let them enjoy this christmas season.

[Rutnstrut]

Firing him now would accomplish nothing, other that increase the burden on the other coaches. Besides, although his tenure here needs to end this year, he's one of the Packers most successful head coaches. He deserves to finish the season.




It's a business not rest home for has been coaches. Give the other coaches some opportunities to call some shots. Time to move on is NOW!!!

[pbmax]

yes

the SI aticle has now convinced me 100%

a-rod is changing a majority of the plays at the line, throwing off fat fucks complete gameplan. a-rod is the reason every single play is devolving into throwing the ball to the endzone

which coach is a-rod gonna respect enough to just run their system?

after all these years of being allowed to do whatever the hell he wants, theres no way rodgers goes back to the old way

mccarthy made this monster, now its uncontrollable

I would like to know how you compute changing the majority of plays. Because you cannot possibly know that.

I guarantee you that naked boot pass that didn't work in the early second half was M3. Its one of his favorites and it hasn't worked since 2013. And Rodgers was smiling on that one, as in "You keep beating this dead horse, and its not getting you anywhere".

[pbmax]

We all agree now that the team has a talent deficiency and the first idea to come into your collective heads is to get rid of the most talented one.

:smack:

Favre adjusted to Sherman. Rodgers will adjust to whoever gets hired. Without an owner, Murphy and Gute are not going to be boxed into giving Rodgers a say, You are looking for a conspiracy, when you just need new ideas and leadership.

Over the weekend, the Rams talked about adding Kliff Klingsbury to their coaching staff. In the last offseason, the Packers retooled with Joe Philbin and Frank Cignetti. Guess which team's offense has progressed the most recently?

McCarthy has no concept of how to start over. He is late period Holmgren now, same offense that everyone has figured out.

Even the fabled U71 package of beloved hermit Mike Sherman was solved by teams eventually. Mike was unable to move past it too.

With overwhelming physical talent, you could design your offense to mimic the Nutcracker (the musical not the drill) and it would work. The mark of actual smarts is doing it with lesser players. Mike McCarthy can no longer do it.

[denverYooper]

They should fire M3 before he leaves the stadium today.

I really didn't think they would take me that seriously.

[QBME]

I really didn't think they would take me that seriously.

:-)

[pbmax]

I really didn't think they would take me that seriously.

Had to make for an awkward post game speech.

Mike, the Executive Committee would like to award you this game ball.

But we lost, we don't hand out game balls for a loss.

Well, we do for terminations.

[Joemailman]

Another successful thread.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5P0irYsTcVY/UWi_fjp7DXI/AAAAAAAAALI/jXuXyXXYlQM/s1600/borat+meme.jpg