Official Fire Mike McCarthy Thread

[Joemailman]

I'm not officially there yet. Just starting this thread as a public service.
McCarthy has righted the ship before. Still...

https://aroundtheworldineightywaves.com/wp-content/uploads/Turkey-Vultures-Circling.jpg

[Strange Brew]

I second this thread!

[George Cumby]

I’m on board.

[Tony Oday]

Fire him.

[Rutnstrut]

Can we make it retroactive and fire him 5 years ago?

[QBME]

Dunno just yet. We have coast-to-coast really tough games upcoming. Maybe he'll see the light and start putting together a game plan/calling strategy that makes sense. Pettine and Zook need to dial it up with what they have.

[ZachMN]

Thank you for reading my mind. This team never looks ready to play.....lackadaisical...slow meandering around...other teams come out with fire under their ass.....just my casual observation. New blood and energy would be good...

[wist43]

I'm gettin there... we're gonna get waxed by the Rams, and NE is a sure loss.

If he can't straighten em out after that?? Then, yeah... fire him end of season.

[Joemailman]

Packers will likely be 3-4-1 at the mid point of the season. They'll then be in a near must-win situation for he rest of the season.

If this team wins fewer than 10 with Rodgers playing the whole season, I think there will be a change.

[esoxx]

The mid-point of the season schedule is the toughest part of the schedule too. Not looking good.

[red]

been there

the offense has been stale for a long time now

the lack of motivation is nothing new

stupid penalties and clock management are nothing new

this is a team that has become complacent and stale. the move should have been made after last year when everyone else was let go

at this point i think murphys job should be on the line for not making the move sooner and wasting another season under this pathetic coach

[Rutnstrut]

been there

the offense has been stale for a long time now

the lack of motivation is nothing new

stupid penalties and clock management are nothing new

this is a team that has become complacent and stale. the move should have been made after last year when everyone else was let go

at this point i think murphys job should be on the line for not making the move sooner and wasting another season under this pathetic coach
Excellent points.

[mraynrand]

So far this season is going pretty much exactly as I expected. Stubby is on a trajectory for dismissal. I kinda felt when he brought back the O-coordinator that that was the death knell. You have to be able to open yourself up to new ideas and adapt. Maybe I was wrong about them scouting around the league and looking at what makes Brady and NE so durably successful.

[pbmax]

So far this season is going pretty much exactly as I expected. Stubby is on a trajectory for dismissal. I kinda felt when he brought back the O-coordinator that that was the death knell. You have to be able to open yourself up to new ideas and adapt. Maybe I was wrong about them scouting around the league and looking at what makes Brady and NE so durably successful.

I think he does the same with that as he does with numbers and data. Its a surface level evaluation at best. He is a step evolved beyond Schottenheimer but still beholden to all his old principles.

[Bretsky]

For the past few years I have been on the wagon that I think MM is in the top half of the coaches in the NFL, probably the top 10
My logistics were I really could not name 10 coaches who I'd rather have

But my confidence long term is really wavering as of late

[Harlan Huckleby]

I've been a Packer fan since they wore leather helmets, and a field goal was made by drop-kicking the ball into a peach basket nailed to a single goal post.

Almost every fucking year it is the same thing, "fire somebody!" I tune it out because I figure fans are angry drunks, and I'm not football-smart enough to have an opinion anyway. At most, I can maybe tell if a player sucks.

[mmmdk]

Can we make it retroactive and fire him 5 years ago?

This.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I am probably biased, as I'm not sure I ever liked the guy, even during the good years, but there have just been way too many times when it appeared the team was unprepared. Besides, he is an arrogant fuck, so yeah, fire his ass.

[pbmax]

For once, ahead of the curve: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30318-McCarthy-Has-To-Go

[Joemailman]

I've been a Packer fan since they wore leather helmets, and a field goal was made by drop-kicking the ball into a peach basket nailed to a single goal post.

Almost every fucking year it is the same thing, "fire somebody!" I tune it out because I figure fans are angry drunks, and I'm not football-smart enough to have an opinion anyway. At most, I can maybe tell if a player sucks.

McCarthy won a Super Bowl in his 5th year. We're now in the 8th year since he won the Super Bowl. The trajectory isn't good. Better coaches than McCarthy (I'm thinking Landry and Noll) have been fired by the teams they won titles for. They didn't forget how to do what had worked for them. What had worked in he past just wasn't working anymore.

[Fosco33]

I was all for it last year... and based on the start - I’d say - who could take over right now.

The team and fans need a spark

[mraynrand]

McCarthy won a Super Bowl in his 5th year. We're now in the 8th year since he won the Super Bowl. The trajectory isn't good. Better coaches than McCarthy (I'm thinking Landry and Noll) have been fired by the teams they won titles for. They didn't forget how to do what had worked for them. What had worked in he past just wasn't working anymore.

Or they lacked the players to do it. Shanahan comes to mind immediately.

The more this season progresses, the more I think Gutey was looking towards next year and/or the year after to strike. He won't do it without Stubby unless he has someone like Pederson already on his radar.

Before the season I was wondering whether this year would be like 2005 - Rodger's injury and the direction of the offense is trending that way. Doesn't mean it has to stay there (See NE after their game with Detroit for example), but rn it looks ugly.

[MadScientist]

Or they lacked the players to do it. Shanahan comes to mind immediately.

The more this season progresses, the more I think Gutey was looking towards next year and/or the year after to strike. He won't do it without Stubby unless he has someone like Pederson already on his radar.

Before the season I was wondering whether this year would be like 2005 - Rodger's injury and the direction of the offense is trending that way. Doesn't mean it has to stay there (See NE after their game with Detroit for example), but rn it looks ugly.

Murphy has to fire MM. This dumb-ass reporting scheme / power grab by Murphy is just a bad idea. Fire MM, let Guty take care of the next coach, and only have the other guy talk to Murphy about financial issues (longer-term planning in terms of cash flow with impending signing bonuses, etc).

This offense barely looks better than the Hundley led one, especially in the first half.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I’d trade Dumb Mike (cos orangutans are smarter than Mike McCarthy - and Tony ODay. Plus, Fat Mike is taken) to the Browns for a 2nd and 4th.

German Shepherd has done some nice deeds, but off with his head for fucking up the Mack ordeal.

Bring in Josh McDaniels to run the whole shebang. 12 would throw for 7000 yds/season and 50 tds/season with JMac.

[Bossman641]

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/10/8/17951344/green-bay-packers-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers

[Pugger]

Mac isn't a bad coach but often after a while a new perspective can do wonders for a franchise. Sean Payton in NO is the exception. They look good now but they played poorly for a while there. Things aren't rosy in Pittsburgh and Reid has never shown the ability to finish strongly. It might finally be time to make a change. I doubt anything will happen until this season is over - unless the bottom really falls out.

But let's say Murphy loses patience and we fire Mac. Who should take over? Philbin? Moss? Pettine has said he has no desire to be a HC any time soon. McDaniels isn't a bad idea but I doubt he'd be available until after this season is over.

[George Cumby]

To quote Kevin Greene:

“It. Is. Time.”

[red]

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/10/8/17951344/green-bay-packers-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers

Wow, great article

the biggest thing to take away is how the fat asshole lied to everyone to keep his job by saying they were gong to change everything, but then left everything the same

i think if you make the change before the end of the season you put either pettine or philbin in has head coach with the interim label, and nothing more. i would like to see philbin in complete control of this offense to see if he can get anything else out of it

so give the head coach job to pettine, cause he will gladly give it back at the end of the season, and let hilbin have complete control of the offense for the rest of the year

[run pMc]

Ugh. Not the Josh McDaniels talk again. I mean, I'd pick him over Gregg Williams and Lane Kiffin, but yeah, they could do better.

[red]

Mac isn't a bad coach but often after a while a new perspective can do wonders for a franchise. Sean Payton in NO is the exception. They look good now but they played poorly for a while there. Things aren't rosy in Pittsburgh and Reid has never shown the ability to finish strongly. It might finally be time to make a change. I doubt anything will happen until this season is over - unless the bottom really falls out.

But let's say Murphy loses patience and we fire Mac. Who should take over? Philbin? Moss? Pettine has said he has no desire to be a HC any time soon. McDaniels isn't a bad idea but I doubt he'd be available until after this season is over.

mccarthy is a one trick pony whos trick was figured out long ago, and he has either refused or is incapable of learning a second trick

[Bossman641]

Wow, great article

the biggest thing to take away is how the fat asshole lied to everyone to keep his job by saying they were gong to change everything, but then left everything the same

i think if you make the change before the end of the season you put either pettine or philbin in has head coach with the interim label, and nothing more. i would like to see philbin in complete control of this offense to see if he can get anything else out of it

so give the head coach job to pettine, cause he will gladly give it back at the end of the season, and let hilbin have complete control of the offense for the rest of the year

I'll give MM the rest of the year to see what happens, but if the offense continues to look so stale I'd like to see a younger, coordinator run the offense and bring some ideas from college offenses.

[pbmax]

mccarthy is a one trick pony whos trick was figured out long ago, and he has either refused or is incapable of learning a second trick

Its too easy to dismiss him this way. He had a Top 5 offense for 3 years with one playbook and approach. He had another for 2 years with the no huddle.

That doesn't happen very often. Manning, who was his own OC and Belichick are the only ones who surpass it. Even Sean Peyton had down years with Brees at the helm.

[Joemailman]

Wow, great article

the biggest thing to take away is how the fat asshole lied to everyone to keep his job by saying they were gong to change everything, but then left everything the same

i think if you make the change before the end of the season you put either pettine or philbin in has head coach with the interim label, and nothing more. i would like to see philbin in complete control of this offense to see if he can get anything else out of it

so give the head coach job to pettine, cause he will gladly give it back at the end of the season, and let hilbin have complete control of the offense for the rest of the year

I don't think firing MM during the season solves anything. And Putting Pettine in there would just detract from his ability to get this defense pointed in the right direction. If they had to make a change mid-season, I think Philbin would be the better choice. Hostler could serve as the OC. But you only replace MM now if you have a frickin' team mutiny, and I don't see any signs of that.

[pbmax]

Candidates:

Offense
MATT LAFLEUR, OC, TENNESSEE
JOHN DEFILIPPO, OC, MINNESOTA
BRIAN DABOLL, OC, BUFFALO
Josh McDaniels, OC, New England
Dan Campbell, OC, New Orleans
Jim Bob Cooter, OC, Detroit


Defense
JAMES BETTCHER, DC, NYG
JIM SCHWARTZ, DC, PHILADELPHIA
ROBERT SALEH, DC, SAN FRANCISCO
GEORGE EDWARDS, DC, MINNESOTA
Teryl Austin, DC, Cincinnati

College
Chris Petersen, HC, Washington
David Shaw, HC, Stanford
Jim Harbaugh, HC, Michigan
Lincoln Riley, HC, Oklahoma
Matt Campbell, HC, Iowa State

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Candidates:

Offense
MATT LAFLEUR, OC, TENNESSEE
JOHN DEFILIPPO, OC, MINNESOTA
BRIAN DABOLL, OC, BUFFALO
Josh McDaniels, OC, New England
Dan Campbell, OC, New Orleans
Jim Bob Cooter, OC, Detroit


Defense
JAMES BETTCHER, DC, NYG
JIM SCHWARTZ, DC, PHILADELPHIA
ROBERT SALEH, DC, SAN FRANCISCO
GEORGE EDWARDS, DC, MINNESOTA
Teryl Austin, DC, Cincinnati

College
Chris Petersen, HC, Washington
David Shaw, HC, Stanford
Jim Harbaugh, HC, Michigan
Lincoln Riley, HC, Oklahoma
Matt Campbell, HC, Iowa State

Hire all of them....

[Joemailman]

My List:

Mike Pettine
Mike Holmgren
Mike Sherman
Mike Tomlin (He'll be available)
Mikey from the Life Cereal commercials

[pbmax]

What has this board come to? I have no Mikes on my list.

[Fosco33]

Real question. Was M3 kept to pacify 12 before he signed. Van Pelt and Jordy gone...

[gbgary]

it's not like a coaching change is going to make any difference. everything is already tuned for Rodgers abilities and he can change any play he wants to at the line. a coaching change this late in Rodgers' career would be counter productive imo. you think a new coach is going to go in there and tell Rodgers the way it's going to be? only Rodgers himself can change his game/mindset. it's talent and execution. they don't have enough talent, or the guts to get it, and their execution is trending downward...including Rodgers'. they'll continue to waddle around in the 9-10 win zone as Rodgers gets ever closer to 40 if they're lucky. saw a quote today that tells the story...in their last 47 games the Packers are 23-23-1.

that said...Go Pack! https://www.packerforum.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/wink.png

[mraynrand]

Ya know, in 1929, Curly won a championship as a player-coach. I think Gutes needs to hand over the keys to Rodgers. It can work. Rodgers can BRING BLACK VANPELT! as his OC.

[pbmax]

I don't think Rodgers is quite to the point that he is Peyton Manning and running his own offense. My money would be on him adapting.

[pbmax]

Also, a continuing series of reminders that Free Agency is a terrible, terrible idea at almost all times.

[red]

Also, a continuing series of reminders that Free Agency is a terrible, terrible idea at almost all times.

Tramon and Morrison seem to be working out just fine

[Joemailman]

I don't think Rodgers is quite to the point that he is Peyton Manning and running his own offense. My money would be on him adapting.

Maybe not there, but is the situation getting close to Favre/Sherman, where many felt the QB couldn't be controlled by the HC?

[pbmax]

Maybe not there, but is the situation getting close to Favre/Sherman, where many felt the QB couldn't be controlled by the HC?

There is definitely a disconnect there now. But I don't think that means he won't buy into a different scheme.

And Sherman reined Favre's worst instincts in for 4+ years. And all he did was run the ball.

The fact of the matter is that the team might just need to crater for a year to rebuild.

[pbmax]

Tramon and Morrison seem to be working out just fine

Morrison is a try hard guy, 2 down LB. But no one is game planning around him. Plus he is cheap.

Tramontana is currently stronger than what lines up at CB across the field is the best that can be said of him.

[Pugger]

it's not like a coaching change is going to make any difference. everything is already tuned for Rodgers abilities and he can change any play he wants to at the line. a coaching change this late in Rodgers' career would be counter productive imo. you think a new coach is going to go in there and tell Rodgers the way it's going to be? only Rodgers himself can change his game/mindset. it's talent and execution. they don't have enough talent, or the guts to get it, and their execution is trending downward...including Rodgers'. they'll continue to waddle around in the 9-10 win zone as Rodgers gets ever closer to 40 if they're lucky. saw a quote today that tells the story...in their last 47 games the Packers are 23-23-1.

that said...Go Pack! https://www.packerforum.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/wink.png

If the rumors of a riff between Mac and AR are true getting a fresh perspective from a new HC might be just the jolt he and the offense needs to get going again. Maybe AR needs a new challenge to energize him.

[The Shadow]

mccarthy is a one trick pony whos trick was figured out long ago, and he has either refused or is incapable of learning a second trick

Pretty much nails it.

[texaspackerbacker]

If the rumors of a riff between Mac and AR are true getting a fresh perspective from a new HC might be just the jolt he and the offense needs to get going again. Maybe AR needs a new challenge to energize him.

First of all, I very much doubt those rumors are true. Secondly, I suspect any new coach would try to get away from what Rodgers does - and likes to do - so well even more than McCarthy. And Third, it's more about mediocre personnel other than Rodgers than any other factor. Just look at the Defense. Pettine is supposed to be such a hot shot DC, but quality hasn't changed that much because of the players he has to work with. Ditto that and more so for the O Line.

[Pugger]

First of all, I very much doubt those rumors are true. Secondly, I suspect any new coach would try to get away from what Rodgers does - and likes to do - so well even more than McCarthy. And Third, it's more about mediocre personnel other than Rodgers than any other factor. Just look at the Defense. Pettine is supposed to be such a hot shot DC, but quality hasn't changed that much because of the players he has to work with. Ditto that and more so for the O Line.

Gee, to me it appears this defense is better than it was last year. In Detroit they were put in a terrible spot over and over. We have to remember this is a new scheme and DC. I think they will only get better as the season progresses.

[Joemailman]

Gee, to me it appears this defense is better than it was last year. In Detroit they were put in a terrible spot over and over. We have to remember this is a new scheme and DC. I think they will only get better as the season progresses.

I pretty much agree. They've been hurt by surprisingly poor Safety play. I don't think they saw that coming. Other than that though, they've been more solid than in recent years. Packers are allowing an opponent passer rating of 89.3 which ranks 13th. They're actually 2nd in opponents passing YPG, but that is skewed because opponents have had big halftime leads in 3 games, so they haven't thrown the ball a lot in the 2nd half. Run defense has been just average, but that's typical for a Pettine defense.

[Bretsky]

Also, a continuing series of reminders that Free Agency is a terrible, terrible idea at almost all times.

I don't think I agree

Do you think Graham was a really bad move ? I'm not sure yet. Williams is fine.

Not making things work with Jordy and dropping Cobb may have been the mistake


AND.....not drafting a pass rusher in round one last year :)))

[Bretsky]

Candidates:

Offense
MATT LAFLEUR, OC, TENNESSEE
JOHN DEFILIPPO, OC, MINNESOTA
BRIAN DABOLL, OC, BUFFALO
Josh McDaniels, OC, New England
Dan Campbell, OC, New Orleans
Jim Bob Cooter, OC, Detroit


Defense
JAMES BETTCHER, DC, NYG
JIM SCHWARTZ, DC, PHILADELPHIA
ROBERT SALEH, DC, SAN FRANCISCO
GEORGE EDWARDS, DC, MINNESOTA
Teryl Austin, DC, Cincinnati

College
Chris Petersen, HC, Washington
David Shaw, HC, Stanford
Jim Harbaugh, HC, Michigan
Lincoln Riley, HC, Oklahoma
Matt Campbell, HC, Iowa State



WHO is the offensive GURU I thought you were pimping and comparing to the Rams coach; I'm loving me my new Rams coach !

[Bretsky]

Morrison is a try hard guy, 2 down LB. But no one is game planning around him. Plus he is cheap.

Tramontana is currently stronger than what lines up at CB across the field is the best that can be said of him.



Morrison a one trick pony...completely true......but he is also one big trick better than the alternatives, or lack of alternatives...as well as Jake Ryan

[pbmax]

WHO is the offensive GURU I thought you were pimping and comparing to the Rams coach; I'm loving me my new Rams coach !

I liked both Adam Gase and Mike McCoy, but both have struggled since getting my recommendation. Pressure of great expectations might have done them in.

Of the list, I just don't trust DeFillipo or Daboll as they were part of some horrific offenses and have just recently looked good. But the Vikes offense still seems legit with John D.

The guy who I feel absolutely can coach is the former Cardinals D guy, now wth the Giants, Bettcher. Arias recommended him for the open Cards job but he didn't get it. His Defenses have been very good. No idea what he thinks about Offense.

[pbmax]

Morrison a one trick pony...completely true......but he is also one big trick better than the alternatives, or lack of alternatives...as well as Jake Ryan

Do you honestly think he is a significant step up from Ryan?

[Pugger]

The one big problem with McCarthy is he cannot or will not reign Rodgers in and get him to take what the defense gives him. AR loves to go for the big play instead of keeping drives alive tossing it to a check down receiver. Rodgers' improv is what makes him so great but with that bum knee he isn't nimble enough to pull off plays like that. Both of these men appear to be stubborn mules lately. Until Mac takes control of this situation we are going to continue to struggle offensively.

[Carolina_Packer]

The one big problem with McCarthy is he cannot or will not reign Rodgers in and get him to take what the defense gives him. AR loves to go for the big play instead of keeping drives alive tossing it to a check down receiver. Rodgers' improv is what makes him so great but with that bum knee he isn't nimble enough to pull off plays like that. Both of these men appear to be stubborn mules lately. Until Mac takes control of this situation we are going to continue to struggle offensively.


Pugger, I think this is what is making QB's who read the D and take what is given more successfully at this point in the season. I realize the offense and concepts are different, but look at Brees and Brady. The ball is out and for the most part, they stay in the pocket, sometimes with enough time to eat a ham sandwich. I've heard people say our isolation routes are somewhat to blame as well, aside from Rodgers wanting to go for the big play.


Elementary idea, but if they improved the run game, and used the screen game with them, and defenses had to respect that, wouldn't that make Green Bay's offense less predictable and add a bit more deception/versatility to keep defenses guessing?

[Freak Out]

Watch the replays of the games this year. Arod basically ignores wide open guys that would end up as 1st downs or big plays while looking for a long ball multiple times every game. Maddening.

[pbmax]

Watch the replays of the games this year. Arod basically ignores wide open guys that would end up as 1st downs or big plays while looking for a long ball multiple times every game. Maddening.

Agree. And I think its happening for two reasons, one of which is directly under McCarthy's control, the other not as much.

During the great offensive slowdowns post 2011, Rodgers and the extended play offense were the only thing working at times. It was a natural evolution to solve the Defense rush 4 and man cover with 5 short with two deep safeties. If you want to pass against that, you need some time. He bought it.

But you also know that puts the QB at risk, plus defenses will adjust again, just like they learned that Favre was going to whistle throws past a DBs earhole that could be intercepted.

So McCarthy should have insisted on more traditional offense being run, not fiddling with a hurry up offense. Yes, I know, hindsight is 20/20. But even his stated reasons for doing so, more swings at the ball, tiring out defenses, are second order important. They are less important than functional base offense.

So that is directly on the coach. A solution to the wrong problem.

But the QB still thinks this is the best offense. And that idea needs to buried. But until his PC Sunday, I don't think he bought it.

It might take a new coach.

[bobblehead]

I am more convinced than ever that TT wasn't the problem and MM was and is. He simply values certain things over impact and talent. Playing House over Josh Jackson, Playing anyone over Aaron Jones, Having Josh Jones drafted to play dime linebacker and then misusing him and putting him in the doghouse and not getting playing time at his natural position and allowing some JAG named Toomer on the field over him, signing Breland and playing some Jag named Brown ahead of him.

I could go on and on about how every coach in the league is figuring out that pass catching backs are the future, yet we have a former WR at RB who barely gets a catch. We signed a TE that fits the way MM has historically use TEs and he is nowhere to be seen, and when he is its only about 25% of the time catching inline passes over the middle.

Speaking of misusing players, it took me 3 preseason games into his rookie season to declare Mica Hyde a great safety. It took the buffalo bills to prove it.

We have been here before and worse, so I expect MM to right the ship somewhat, but I am quite sure his superbowl days are behind him unless he is simply given superior talent. Despite what some on the board here think, we have had some talented teams in recent history. The team that lost to seattle in the worst defeat in franchise history was good across the board. This team has decent talent if its used correctly. I expect things to get better when MM stops being stubby and starts using Jones/Jones, breland et al and stops deciding that some fucktard named Toomer tries really hard so he deserves to play.

[gbgary]

TT was a huge problem. that's why Murphy reorganized the FO and injected himself in the football dept. several things have come out recently about how he was/is losing it.

[pbmax]

TT was a huge problem. that's why Murphy reorganized the FO and injected himself in the football dept. several things have come out recently about how he was/is losing it.

Such as?

[bobblehead]

TT was a huge problem. that's why Murphy reorganized the FO and injected himself in the football dept. several things have come out recently about how he was/is losing it.

a) I haven't heard anything about him losing it from anyone not named wist or APB.

b) I can see that we are gangbusters now with TT out of the way. Whew...super bowl here we come.

[gbgary]

a) I haven't heard anything about him losing it from anyone not named wist or APB.

b) I can see that we are gangbusters now with TT out of the way. Whew...super bowl here we come.

yeah...don't remember who but heard, on a GB radio station, a GB reporter/blogger say his source inside 1265 said russ ball was basically covering for tt and doing tt's job last year. murphy found out and that's what prompted the changes. maybe that's why MM was so adamant that if ball was named gm he'd quit.

all you had to do was watch one of his pressers to know tt was off. we all noticed and commented on it.

[mraynrand]

yeah...don't remember who but heard, on a GB radio station, a GB reporter/blogger say his source inside 1265 said russ ball was basically covering for tt and doing tt's job last year. murphy found out and that's what prompted the changes. maybe that's why MM was so adamant that if ball was named gm he'd quit.

all you had to do was watch one of his pressers to know tt was off. we all noticed and commented on it.

Wait, Ball was doing TT's job so Stubby didn't want him as GM? Because Ball sucked at it?

[gbgary]

Wait, Ball was doing TT's job so Stubby didn't want him as GM? Because Ball sucked at it?

i don't know why MM didn't want ball named gm but it's well reported that he didn't and threatened to quit if he was.

[mraynrand]

i don't know why MM didn't want ball named gm but it's well reported that he didn't and threatened to quit if he was.

Somehow I missed all of that

[pbmax]

Somehow I missed all of that

We knew McCarthy didn't want Ball, but the explanation at the time was that it would be Ted 2.0 and no FA.

The rumor that it was Ball doing this all along seems like a conspiracy theory given that Ted has had some bad drafts, they haven't been back to the Super Bowl, he was visibly aging and he had been giving Ball some personnel duties to fluff his credentials for a GM job.

McCarthy threatening to quit seems much more likely, and implied by his press conference ("has to be a two way street"). He knew they wanted him for at least another year because of Rodgers upcoming deal.

But given the year the Packers have had so far, I am more worried about two things now than I was then:

1. Rodgers doesn't seem happy with McCarthy's offense and only wants the touchdown to check down or extended version. If true, and not due to some other issue we don't know about, presents a conundrum. Because Rodgers is more rare than McCarthy, though McCarthy is good enough to be hard to replace. But I don't like an organization to put everything behind the player.

2. What will Murphy do? Did he do a one year deal to placate Rodgers OR because a long term deal for a 7-9 coach would make him look bad? Here I hope Muphy is slightly conniving, taking advantage of whatever opportunity presents itself to him to shake up the offensive approach.

[red]

i don't know why MM didn't want ball named gm but it's well reported that he didn't and threatened to quit if he was.

if this is true, it appears the smart move would have been to make ball the GM

[Joemailman]

if this is true, it appears the smart move would have been to make ball the GM

There have been reports Rodgers didn't want Ball either. Would you want Ball if it meant Rodgers doesn't sign an extension?

I realize it's dangerous territory if you are allowing a player, even Rodgers, to determine who the new GM is.

[bobblehead]

Oftentimes the least popular choice is the best choice. Maybe its time to Trade Rodgers for as much draft capital as possible (If Mack is worth 2 firsts from a below average team, what is Rodgers worth? Looking at you Denver) Fire MM and staff. Stink it up a bit for a year or 2 while rebuilding. Don't be shy about trading back for more future draft capital (patriots do it all the time). In the age of parity I would ALWAYS trade my 2nd for a 1st next year.

It won't happen. Only TT had to stones to trade a HOF QB.

The other option is much easier. Fire MM, hire a young talent. We are semi rebuilding already with 2 firsts next year and some young talent on D that is showing flashes already. We need to spend some draft capital on the entire offense next year and not sign anymore FA that are on the decline (looking at you Jimmy Graham and Martellus Bennett.) If you can get a stopgap for a reasonable price, that is the way to use FA (jahari evans). If we play the cards right we should be able to snag another ring before ARod rides off into the sunset.

[wist43]

I think Stubby needs to go... I've been very slow to come to this point, but I think it's time for some new blood.

We need a young offensive innovator, and the front office needs to do some serious self evaluation with respect to how they evaluate OL/DL and especially LB. Worst set of LB's in the league... they're hard to watch.

[Bretsky]

Do you honestly think he is a significant step up from Ryan?


Prolly not significant; but he's a step up imo

[Bretsky]

I think Stubby needs to go... I've been very slow to come to this point, but I think it's time for some new blood.

We need a young offensive innovator, and the front office needs to do some serious self evaluation with respect to how they evaluate OL/DL and especially LB. Worst set of LB's in the league... they're hard to watch.



you thought the solution was to get rid of Dom Capers

Hmmm....were you wrong ?

[wist43]

you thought the solution was to get rid of Dom Capers

Hmmm....were you wrong ?

Getting rid of Capers was certainly part of the solution - never thought getting rid of him was a cure all.

After Capers, I would say the organization's cluelessness in how to evaluate defensive players and build a defense is the next biggest problem. I think they need to take a serious look at the scouting dept, and overhaul it.

That said, Stubby is looking more and more like a dinosaur when it comes to offense, and it seems to have finally gotten to the point where the players have lost faith him. Once that happens, it's over.

[mraynrand]

I want to see Stubby get fired, get hired by Cleveland, and watch Randall's head explode.

[pbmax]

Capers looked lights out for two years. Let's give Pettine at least 4 before we pass judgement on the difference.

[wist43]

Capers looked lights out for two years. Let's give Pettine at least 4 before we pass judgement on the difference.

We're better on defense this year than the last 6-7 years... don't think there's much debate about that.

That said, I think the DL has regressed a bit, that's not Pettine's fault; and the LBing Corp is even worse this year than last b/c Clay has fallen off more, and the rest of the guys stink. Gilbert is probably our best pass rusher.

The back end is certainly better... Randall and Burnett being gone helps, and the rookies have been pretty good, although a work in progress.

Tough to have a dominant defense though when your LBers are so bad.

[pbmax]

We're better on defense this year than the last 6-7 years... don't think there's much debate about that.

That said, I think the DL has regressed a bit, that's not Pettine's fault; and the LBing Corp is even worse this year than last b/c Clay has fallen off more, and the rest of the guys stink. Gilbert is probably our best pass rusher.

The back end is certainly better... Randall and Burnett being gone helps, and the rookies have been pretty good, although a work in progress.

Tough to have a dominant defense though when your LBers are so bad.

Repeating things is an effective way to hypnotize yourself. Source is Pro Football References Simple Rating System (SRS).



Poin Poin Poin Simp
Year Lg Tm W L T PF PA PD DSRS
2018 NFL Green Bay Packers 2 2 1 115 114 1 -1.1
2017 NFL Green Bay Packers 7 9 0 320 384 -64 -1.6
2016 NFL Green Bay Packers* 10 6 0 432 388 44 -2.0
2015 NFL Green Bay Packers* 10 6 0 368 323 45 3.3
2014 NFL Green Bay Packers* 12 4 0 486 348 138 0.4
2013 NFL Green Bay Packers* 8 7 1 417 428 -11 -3.6
2012 NFL Green Bay Packers* 11 5 0 433 336 97 2.4
2011 NFL Green Bay Packers* 15 1 0 560 359 201 -0.1
2010 NFL Green Bay Packers* 10 6 0 388 240 148 7.9
2009 NFL Green Bay Packers* 11 5 0 461 297 164 1.1


6 out of 10 years Capers had a better rated defense, including 4 since the Super Bowl (covers 6 years of Capers D)

Pettine has injected some good looks and they have dominated a couple of halves, but its far from a proven case.

[pbmax]

Football Outsiders has two of the last six Capers seasons as better by rank, and three of six better by score:



2018 13th 0.0
2017 20th 4.9
2016 20th 2.5
2015 9th -7.3
2014 16th -1.0
2013 31st 14.4
2012 8th -7.0
2011 25th 8.6


Negative is a better score for defense.

The overall point being that we do not know yet if Pettine is the guy to lead the or, like Capers, his first year or two is effective especially due to it being fresh out of the box.

[wist43]

I agree we don't know what we have with Pettine, but we sure as shit knew Capers sucked.

Everything is relative... different opponents, different players, different scheme, different rules...

As the official excuse maker, and man-love guy for Capers though, it's understandable why you would miss the good ol days ;)

[ThunderDan]

My biggest concern about MM is we have come out of the gates flat in at least half of the games this year.

[ThunderDan]

Wrong thread.

[mraynrand]

My biggest concern about MM is we have come out of the gates flat in at least half of the games this year.

yep

[wist43]

Wanted to get this most important thread to the top....

Fire Stubby!!!!

Had enough of him.

[pbmax]

I agree we don't know what we have with Pettine, but we sure as shit knew Capers sucked.

Everything is relative... different opponents, different players, different scheme, different rules...

As the official excuse maker, and man-love guy for Capers though, it's understandable why you would miss the good ol days ;)

What do you think about tonight? San Fran doesn't have the talent to do that to a good defense. But they shut it down in the 2nd half.

Did Pettine's contract not specify that he be allowed to watch opponent film?

[Freak Out]

Why the hell did Stubby not call for the FG with 8 minutes left in the 4th qtr? Mason was on again. WTF?

[wist43]

What do you think about tonight? San Fran doesn't have the talent to do that to a good defense. But they shut it down in the 2nd half.

Did Pettine's contract not specify that he be allowed to watch opponent film?

If was horrific... there's no excuse for what Pettine did last night. The players were terrible, and so was the coaching. As bad as Pettine was, Stubby was probably worse.

The team has become a train wreck under McCarthy.

[pbmax]

https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1052270732691017737

Ryan Grant on practice time devoted to running game in Washington under Shanahans versus GB. This would be 2012.

[mraynrand]

https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1052270732691017737

Ryan Grant on practice time devoted to running game in Washington under Shanahans versus GB. This would be 2012.

The year of Alex Green and Cedric Benson, and Grant on his way out. Next year, they add Lacy. Sure, as Rodgers gets more and more skilled and dominant, they put the rush on the back burner. Then they start seeing him getting killed because the defense knows they aren't running at all (Notably, the first half of Interceptouchdown game in Seattle) and they have to reset. Probably need another reset.


Also, Nagler is also comparing 2018 to 1999. Some similarities to be sure. If so, can only hope 2019 GM year is like 2000 - that was an astonishing trade and draft year that kept the Packers competitive until Thompson hired after 2004 draft debacle. (Packers similar draft/GM/fate debacle was Randall/Rollins/Spriggs and losing Shields). The collapse of the secondary and the O-line (right side) due to those unfortunate moves/circumstances has had reverberations all over the roster, notably in inability/failure to replace/replenish pass rush. These things are why I predicted 8-8 (9-7 with SF win) and Stubby gone.

[pbmax]

The year of Alex Green and Cedric Benson, and Grant on his way out. Next year, they add Lacy. Sure, as Rodgers gets more and more skilled and dominant, they put the rush on the back burner. Then they start seeing him getting killed because the defense knows they aren't running at all (Notably, the first half of Interceptouchdown game in Seattle) and they have to reset. Probably need another reset.


Also, Nagler is also comparing 2018 to 1999. Some similarities to be sure. If so, can only hope 2019 GM year is like 2000 - that was an astonishing trade and draft year that kept the Packers competitive until Thompson hired after 2004 draft debacle. (Packers similar draft/GM/fate debacle was Randall/Rollins/Spriggs and losing Shields). The collapse of the secondary and the O-line (right side) due to those unfortunate moves/circumstances has had reverberations all over the roster, notably in inability/failure to replace/replenish pass rush. These things are why I predicted 8-8 (9-7 with SF win) and Stubby gone.


Some people are't even joking that Gutey isn't stretching himself to save McCarthy.

Aaron Nagler @AaronNagler
His absence [Rodgers] last season put them in position to draft an immediate difference maker. Gutekunst decided to gather assets. More and more I think he was fine punting on 2018 and setting himself up long term, which I totally get. That’s a GM’s job.

[mraynrand]

Some people are't even joking that Gutey isn't stretching himself to save McCarthy.

Aaron Nagler @AaronNagler
More and more I think he was fine punting on 2018 and setting himself up long term, which I totally get. That’s a GM’s job.

Which makes it look more like 2005, except that Gutey may have had a really good draft of players who contribute immediately - when not hurt.

[pbmax]

The Steakhouse wasn't enough. Catering without Kuhn.

https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1052230749007597569

[pbmax]

I need a translation here. Who is Flea (I think that is what he said)? Also maybe Brian?

https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1052221310212943872

[mraynrand]

I need a translation here. Who is Flea (I think that is what he said)? Also maybe Brian?

https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1052221310212943872

There's only one Bryan (Bulaga) on the roster in the three years Grant was on the Packers and Peppers in Chicago (2010-2012)

[pbmax]

There's only one Bryan (Bulaga) on the roster in the three years Grant was on the Packers and Peppers in Chicago (2010-2012)

Yeah, but he also references Urlacher later. If this person and flea are the same, he also mentions someone on the sideline I think?

Still unsure about flea. Unless Bryan Bulaga's nickname is (flea) Bag.

[Joemailman]

I need a translation here. Who is Flea (I think that is what he said)? Also maybe Brian?

https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1052221310212943872

Packers Head Athletic Trainer is Bryan 'Flea' Engel. https://twitter.com/bryanengelatc?lang=en

[mraynrand]

Packers Head Athletic Trainer is Bryan 'Flea' Engel. https://twitter.com/bryanengelatc?lang=en

nice get

[Joemailman]

nice get

Elementary.

http://public.media.smithsonianmag.com/legacy_blog/sherlock-holmes-glass_550.jpg

[pbmax]

Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero
The #Cardinals have fired OC Mike McCoy, source said.

His track record since his first stop in Denver is decidedly terrible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCoy_(American_football_coach)

But he made Kyle Orton and Tebow functional NFL QBs (he coached with Josh McDaniels and John Fox). There is enough dreck with his Chargers HC tenure to doubt him. His subsequent tenures with the Broncos and Cardinals don't inspire confidence.

I cannot tell you I would endorse hiring the guy. 8-10 years ago he was seemed like a genius.

[mraynrand]

The Cardinals LT makes Marshmallow Outhouse look like Jonathan Ogden. Not sure how an OC can solve that. Oh wait, maybe you run away from the terrible side of your formation (see pitch-runs in SF at GB game).... But, Rosen ain't no Aaron Rodgers - not now, and not likely ever (the affluent never make great QBs, or so I've been told). Regardless of how much suckitude is onboard the unreal McCoy, I suspect some scapegoatin' is going on.

[pbmax]

The Cardinals LT makes Marshmallow Outhouse look like Jonathan Ogden. Not sure how an OC can solve that. Oh wait, maybe you run away from the terrible side of your formation (see pitch-runs in SF at GB game).... But, Rosen ain't no Aaron Rodgers - not now, and not likely ever (the affluent never make great QBs, or so I've been told). Regardless of how much suckitude is onboard the unreal McCoy, I suspect some scapegoatin' is going on.

Yeah, this doesn't speak well of Wilks future chances as a HC.

Then again, there was a time everyone was down about Alvarez and his offensive coordinator I believe. Barry canned him before the turnaround and there was no rejoicing (I think he promoted/hired Childress). For some reason, people loved that guy (I cannot remember his name). These people predicted Alvarez would not survive such behavior as to betray a trust like that so quickly.

So perhaps Wilks was truly in need of a mulligan. Louis Riddick thinks it all a problem of talent though.

[mraynrand]

Sometimes scapegoating works. Ask the guys on Jonah's boat.

[pbmax]

Sometimes scapegoating works. Ask the guys on Jonah's boat.

You would have thought Alvarez accused him of drug smuggling given the reaction, rather than just getting fired. The guy almost had to be a local, or with a big local connection. Because the big, insidery prediction was that high school coaches would avoid helping Barry.

[mraynrand]

Louis Riddick thinks it all a problem of talent though.


ouis Riddick
‏
Verified account

@LRiddickESPN
2h2 hours ago
More
I’m expecting the Cardinals offense to now suddenly look like the greatest show on turf, at least schematically, now that McCoy is gone. At least that is what I am gathering by reading Twitter. This roster sucks offensively, but hey, that’s besides the point. Can’t wait to watch.


lol

[George Cumby]

Has Fat Mike been fired yet?

[Joemailman]

Has Fat Mike been fired yet?

Fired up!

[Fritz]

Fire someone now!

Now that's accountability. From a fan perspective.

Count me in, baby!

[Joemailman]

What? Packers lose and nobody bumps this thread? Slackers.

[mraynrand]

FIRE SOMEONE!!!

[Pugger]

Fire someone now!

Now that's accountability. From a fan perspective.

Count me in, baby!

If anyone is fired it better be Montgomery.

[George Cumby]

Has Fat Mike been fired yet?

[pbmax]

If anyone is fired it better be Montgomery.

This has to be repped.

[Joemailman]

MM now 6-12-1 in last 19 games.

[mmmdk]

Why is Stubby still around?

[mraynrand]

Why can't Stubby suffer a season-ending injury?

[denverYooper]

I'm hoping the 9ers fire Shannahan and the Packers pick him up.

I don't think it'll happen but a boy can dream.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Bring black Andy Reid!

And by that, I mean Eric Bieniemy.

[Teamcheez1]

Why can't Stubby suffer a season-ending injury?

Only way that's going to happen is if he slips on some dropped food at the Golden Corral.

[Joemailman]

Packers record after 8 games last 3 years:

2018: 3-4-1
2017: 4-4
2016: 4-4

Barring a miracle, this will be the 2nd consecutive year Packers don't win 10. And in 2016 they needed to win their last 6 to get to 10-6.

I go back to the first game of the year. Packers looked unready to play in 1st quarter against the Bears. McCarthy said next day the team came out flat against the Bears and they have addressed that. It left me wondering how the hell you come out flat on opening night against the Bears at Lambeau on national television. Something is amiss. Whether it's the coaching or lack of leadership by the veteran players, or both, something needs to change.

[Fosco33]

I don’t understand the hesitation or stubborn belief that things will change. Its been the same shit for 5 years...

Look at the St. Louis cardinals record after firing Matheny... went .500 before and 42-27 (.608) after firing.

Grow a pair Gute

[Fritz]

I don't think Gute has the authority to fire MM. Remember? Each of them reports to Murphy.

So that's my impression - it's Murphy that needs to grow a pair - of tits or balls, whatever it takes.

[call_me_ishmael]

Baseball and Football aren't the same, though. MM doesn't deserve a mid-season firing, that's ridiculous. He's not a bad coach or a bad guy. I think he'll be successful wherever he goes next (Cleveland).

The team just doesn't have the horses. It's just time for a fresh start. I highly doubt they'll find another coach that is as successful as MM over his first 5 years or so, in fact it's extraordinarily unlikely, but it's just time do try something else.

[Fosco33]

It’s more about locker room and fan base. The cards didn’t change pieces either...

And if it’s Murphy - then yeah, grow some ginger hair on those balls.

Unfortunately 90% likely end of year. Another lost year. We had two of top 10 qb’s since ‘92 and have as many rings combined as Eli fucking Manning.

[red]

The problem the last few years is the offense, it’s one big mess

Can’t score in the red zone, and there never hardly any continuity, it’s just sit back and wait for a-rod to make a big play

And one of the big problems is the plays and routes we run, relying on all our guys everytime to beat their men

[denverYooper]

If they lose to the Dolphins at home next Sunday, they should show M3 the door.

[mraynrand]

It’s more about locker room and fan base. The cards didn’t change pieces either...

And if it’s Murphy - then yeah, grow some ginger hair on those balls.

Unfortunately 90% likely end of year. Another lost year. We had two of top 10 qb’s since ‘92 and have as many rings combined as Eli fucking Manning.

Two more than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts combined.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/zachkruse2/status/1059505081127759872

[mraynrand]

The fact that they didn't rework Stubby's contract suggest this is 2005 redux. However, it's clear they are transitioning and rebuilding from some thin final TT years, so that may be all that's going on and they still like 'ol Stubbers. At the beginning of the season I was leaning towards them wanting to start over, but if they do that, they better get who they want. On the other hand, they did mostly rebuild the coaching staff and there are a lot of guys who are younger and/or promoted (with the exception of Philbin - that move I don't really get), so maybe they stay put, but turn over the OC this offseason. It mostly depends on Rodgers and whether there is a bad working relationship with Stubby, because they are invested in Rodgers over Stubby. I still like option 3: Player-coach Rodgers for 2019, with him doing what Curly did in 1929 (except Rodgers would get more PT - lol).

[call_me_ishmael]

Folks, MM is done barring a super bowl. He could get John Fox'd even if they make NFCC. He's gone. It's just time.

[mraynrand]

https://twitter.com/zachkruse2/status/1059505081127759872

Good twitter account:

"Zach Kruse
Rookie LB Oren Burks had a nightmare first series. Packers desperately needed to sub him out but Patriots' pace made it impossible."

Call a time out. Maybe you stop their momentum and adjust right then and there. But no, the TO is too fucking valuable, right?

[Gotarace]

Good twitter account:

"Zach Kruse
Rookie LB Oren Burks had a nightmare first series. Packers desperately needed to sub him out but Patriots' pace made it impossible."

Call a time out. Maybe you stop their momentum and adjust right then and there. But no, the TO is too fucking valuable, right?
We have to save those TO's for the 14 times a game Stubby drags his ass and get's the play in way to late...then send 12 guys out on the field right after a TO.

[call_me_ishmael]

People smarter than I, is this in fact the case?

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/37824/nick-perrys-contract-with-packers-not-as-monstrous-as-it-seems

I am no good at reading those "contract details" websites. Sportrac says the out is after next year, but Rob's article says it after this year.

[Joemailman]

People smarter than I, is this in fact the case?

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/37824/nick-perrys-contract-with-packers-not-as-monstrous-as-it-seems

I am no good at reading those "contract details" websites. Sportrac says the out is after next year, but Rob's article says it after this year.

The out is after this season if they do it right away. Perry is due a 5.4 million roster bonus due 3rd day of the league year (mid-March). That's how I read it based on Spotrac.

Graham has basically the same situation.

[pbmax]

If they lose to the Dolphins at home next Sunday, they should show M3 the door.

If the Packers lose to a Brock Osweiler led team, Fritz and I are going to have to pull the coach kidnapping scheme out of mothballs.

How long is chloroform shelf stable? Its been sitting since a man named Strock was in charge of ST.



**Past performance in this case is a definite guarantee that this is a joke.

[pbmax]

I don't think Gute has the authority to fire MM. Remember? Each of them reports to Murphy.

So that's my impression - it's Murphy that needs to grow a pair - of tits or balls, whatever it takes.

From elsewhere I agree with Joe that Murphy seemed to want to keep his options open on this.

But I am worried about the structure going forward, whenever they decide to move on.

[call_me_ishmael]

The out is after this season if they do it right away. Perry is due a 5.4 million roster bonus due 3rd day of the league year (mid-March). That's how I read it based on Spotrac.

Graham has basically the same situation.

Can you explain how this works? I am so confused trying to understand sportrac here and what the ultimate value of the numbers mean.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/nick-perry-9838/

It seems like the guaranteed money that would get paid out and impact the salary cap are the the signing bonuses for the next three years, so 3,700,000 * 3. That's 11,100,000 in guaranteed money owed to Perry. If they cut him before the league year, they would owe him that 11,100,00 money on the cap, but they would save the 5,200,000 in base salary, 5,400,000 in roster bonuses, and 400,000 in workout bonuses, right? The sum of the base salary, roster bonus and workout bonus is 11,000,000. I think that means they save 11,000,000 of non-guaranteed money on the cap by cutting him. So, basically, the equation is to take the guaranteed money remaining (11,100,000) and subtract the non-guaranteed money they were planning no pay him (11,000,000) to calculate the amount the owe him in dead space. So, it'd cost them 100K to cut him, right?

[pbmax]

https://twitter.com/zachkruse2/status/1059505081127759872

The only guy open on that play was Scantron and he was short of the sticks.

[Joemailman]

The only guy open on that play was Scantron and he was short of the sticks.I'd take my chances with MVS getting YAC over Cobb catching a deep sideline pass.

[Joemailman]

Can you explain how this works? I am so confused trying to understand sportrac here and what the ultimate value of the numbers mean.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/nick-perry-9838/

It seems like the guaranteed money that would get paid out and impact the salary cap are the the signing bonuses for the next three years, so 3,700,000 * 3. That's 11,100,000 in guaranteed money owed to Perry. If they cut him before the league year, they would owe him that 11,100,00 money on the cap, but they would save the 5,200,000 in base salary, 5,400,000 in roster bonuses, and 400,000 in workout bonuses, right? The sum of the base salary, roster bonus and workout bonus is 11,000,000. I think that means they save 11,000,000 of non-guaranteed money on the cap by cutting him. So, basically, the equation is to take the guaranteed money remaining (11,100,000) and subtract the non-guaranteed money they were planning no pay him (11,000,000) to calculate the amount the owe him in dead space. So, it'd cost them 100K to cut him, right?

That's how I see it. As long as they cut Perry before the roster bonus is paid, the only guaranteed money is the signing bonus.

[pbmax]

I'd take my chances with MVS getting YAC over Cobb catching a deep sideline pass.

I would too but that is the problem with this offense going on quite a while.

In Rodgers defense, the shorter passes have gotten a LOT more frequent and his YPA is nosediving the last few years. So from his perspective, it looks like a Sam Bradford game plan at times. But there is a time and a place.

[mraynrand]

The only guy open on that play was Scantron and he was short of the sticks.

You throw high to Graham over the middle. He's single-covered and is like Manute Bol with muscles. Let him reach up to 7 feet and grab the rock.

[pbmax]

You throw high to Graham over the middle. He's single-covered and is like Manute Bol with muscles. Let him reach up to 7 feet and grab the rock.

I believe its workable. But either Rodgers or McCarthy don't believe its wise or possible.

Graham cannot elevate, but he can still body a guy out of the way. Probably needs a lot of reps to help QB know where to put it. Almost had it in end zone.

[call_me_ishmael]

That's how I see it. As long as they cut Perry before the roster bonus is paid, the only guaranteed money is the signing bonus.

The problem is they need to replace him, so if they pay him the 11,100,000 and then another player 6M, that's a total of 17,100,000 allotted to the spot. That's quite a bit :-(

[mraynrand]

I believe its workable. But either Rodgers or McCarthy don't believe its wise or possible.

Graham cannot elevate, but he can still body a guy out of the way. Probably needs a lot of reps to help QB know where to put it. Almost had it in end zone.

It's gotta be workable for anything 10 yards and under. Especially with Wang Chung in coverage.

[George Cumby]

It's gotta be workable for anything 10 yards and under. Especially with Wang Chung in coverage.

It might be the wrong point on the curve though.

[Rutnstrut]

It's gotta be workable for anything 10 yards and under. Especially with Wang Chung in coverage.



You can't expect stubby to figure something like that out.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

So I'm old enough (62) to have lived thru the lean years. And also old enough to know changing head coaches is not always a good thing. Finally, old enough to know I can't afford to live thru another decade of miserable football, especially when we have a hof quarterback. My 2 cent opinion, is it is time to blow this f***ker up! Dump MM, take a chance on a creative mind head coach, lose the overpaid players, and let's get back to the exciting years, the ones where we knew we were not the best, but there was excitement and hope for the future. Even if this means trading Rodgers for LOTS of high picks. I realize this is not a popular option, but in todays competitive football, ya do what ya gotta do....

[Pugger]

So I'm old enough (62) to have lived thru the lean years. And also old enough to know changing head coaches is not always a good thing. Finally, old enough to know I can't afford to live thru another decade of miserable football, especially when we have a hof quarterback. My 2 cent opinion, is it is time to blow this f***ker up! Dump MM, take a chance on a creative mind head coach, lose the overpaid players, and let's get back to the exciting years, the ones where we knew we were not the best, but there was excitement and hope for the future. Even if this means trading Rodgers for LOTS of high picks. I realize this is not a popular option, but in todays competitive football, ya do what ya gotta do....

I was with ya until you said trade Rodgers. Even if we get a boat load of draft picks that is no guarantee we'll find a suitable replacement in the college ranks. We can still build a winner around #12 before he retires. New Orleans had a couple of lean years recently but kept Brees. They rebuilt the team around him and now he and the Saints are winning again.

[run pMc]

The only guy open on that play was Scantron and he was short of the sticks.

Jimmy Graham was open too, and both he and MVS had at least a step on a defender -- enough to at least get close to the first. The throw to Cobb was a good 5 yards past him (looks like Cobb was trying to run through the defender). I can't tell if that's good defense or a rotten throw -- there's no way Cobb can even get a shot at it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Sheeeesh! Another round of idiocy.

Another bad decade? We haven't had one of those since the 80s. and the surest way to get back to that is to "blow this f***ker up". This team is not that far from the top. Any team with Aaron Rodgers ain't that far from the top, and with Gutekunst, they are trending in the right direction.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Sheeeesh! Another round of idiocy.

Another bad decade? We haven't had one of those since the 80s. and the surest way to get back to that is to "blow this f***ker up". This team is not that far from the top. Any team with Aaron Rodgers ain't that far from the top, and with Gutekunst, they are trending in the right direction.

Not sure this is idiocy, just a difference of opinion, only time will tell who is right, and I'm guessing I don't have as much time as you. Translated - fuck off.

[Teamcheez1]

Will MM be attending TT's induction into the Packer Hall of Fame?

[Fosco33]

https://packerstalk.com/2018/11/06/plenty-of-blame-to-go-around/

[denverYooper]

https://packerstalk.com/2018/11/06/plenty-of-blame-to-go-around/

That man writes some sprawling paragraphs.

[wist43]

Sheeeesh! Another round of idiocy.

Another bad decade? We haven't had one of those since the 80s. and the surest way to get back to that is to "blow this f***ker up". This team is not that far from the top. Any team with Aaron Rodgers ain't that far from the top, and with Gutekunst, they are trending in the right direction.

I think Gute is moving us in the right direction...

Next big move has to be firing Fat Mike. I think that will happen end of season.

He then has to hit a home run on an offensive coach. I would like to tap into Sean Peyton's success in New Orleans. Keep Pettine as DC.

Lastly, he needs to hit on the next 2 drafts, and sign a couple of key FA's with the cap space created by dumping Perry, Cobb, and Matthews. Martinez is the only LB worth keeping.

The Burks pick from last year is worrisome b/c his being a 3rd rd pick shows that the Packers still have a major short circuit somewhere in their scouting dept.

[pbmax]

That man writes some sprawling paragraphs.

How do I trust someone who writes about the new GM that he is trying to acquire talent and then mentions two RB selected before his tenure as GM?

[mraynrand]

How do I trust someone who writes about the new GM that he is trying to acquire talent and then mentions two RB selected before his tenure as GM?

ya, I stopped reading at that point. It was worthless.

[texaspackerbacker]

It absolutely is total God damned IDIOCY to even suggest they should "blow this f***ker up".

It's true, Gutekunst is moving in the write direction personnel-wise, but it ain't by dumping good players. Moving on from McCarthy after the season ain't the worst idea, but they damn well better not pick the wrong kind of a replacement.

[run pMc]

It absolutely is total God damned IDIOCY to even suggest they should "blow this f***ker up".

It's true, Gutekunst is moving in the right direction personnel-wise, but it ain't by dumping good players. Moving on from McCarthy after the season ain't the worst idea, but they damn well better not pick the wrong kind of a replacement.

^ 100% Agree.

[George Cumby]

Sheeeesh! Another round of idiocy.

You are the SME.

[run pMc]

While the team's record isn't all M3's fault, some of it certainly is.
I'd say subpar talent in some spots, and Rodgers not playing his A game, and the special-teams-not-being-special all have cost games.

Well, anyone who knew this wasn't a tough stretch wasn't thinking. Second half of season is easier, and there's still time for the team to gel. The rookies will get better, the D will get a little better. Hopefully Rodgers will get better. Nobody is running away with the NFCN yet.

I have serious doubts about most of the names thrown out as a new coach...Josh McDaniels' track record as HC/candidate is a no for me (plus it seems like he wants to be Belichick's successor), and the others don't inspire much optimism. I don't know who all the "bright new minds" are, but I'm wary of one-season wonders. That's not a reason to keep M3, but I don't know if there's anyone better. The devil you know vs. the one you don't?

[Fosco33]

If after watching another lost game/season you think we can’t do better than fat mike... then hand in your fan card. This shit is lame. I’m done caring this year.

[Joemailman]

http://www.meshangels.com/waronmesh/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/vultures.jpg

[yetisnowman]

It's just time for a change. Honestly he should get fired for his terrible clock/TO management and situational football alone. Nevermind the scheme and playcalling. Aaron deserves a lot of the blame but we can't fire him. I can't believe he did not challenge that catch. After blowing 2 TOS just scrambling to get the ball snapped. And punting on 4th and 2, with one TO when our defense was hurt and exhausted. It really is dumb. There's no sugarcoating it.

[mraynrand]

It's just time for a change. Honestly he should get fired for his terrible clock/TO management and situational football alone. Nevermind the scheme and playcalling. Aaron deserves a lot of the blame but we can't fire him. I can't believe he did not challenge that catch. After blowing 2 TOS just scrambling to get the ball snapped. And punting on 4th and 2, with one TO when our defense was hurt and exhausted. It really is dumb. There's no sugarcoating it.

Stubby was very pleased at the half

[pbmax]

Stubby was very pleased at the half

So was I after than 2 minute drive. But I didn't think they were done.

[call_me_ishmael]

If after watching another lost game/season you think we can’t do better than fat mike... then hand in your fan card. This shit is lame. I’m done caring this year.

To the contrary, I think it's more give up your fan card when you stop caring. McCarthy is a top 5 coach in the league. It's just time for something new. He'll be Andy Reid 2.0 and lead Cleveland back to the Playoffs.

[Joemailman]

Perhaps a nice parting gift?

https://www.techsergey.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Untitled-3.jpg

[mraynrand]

^^^ I hear they only put up to $200 on a card. That's not even a snack for Stubbers.*



*Oh, I could just buy more than one card. See, I can ADJUST. I'm not a fat fucking moron.

[Joemailman]

Nothing is too good for Waffle Iron Mike.

[bobblehead]

It's just time for a change. Honestly he should get fired for his terrible clock/TO management and situational football alone. Nevermind the scheme and playcalling. Aaron deserves a lot of the blame but we can't fire him. I can't believe he did not challenge that catch. After blowing 2 TOS just scrambling to get the ball snapped. And punting on 4th and 2, with one TO when our defense was hurt and exhausted. It really is dumb. There's no sugarcoating it.

100% agree. That D was gassed. Anyone who thought there was any chance of getting a stop is high. Definitely had a much better chance to convert 4th and 2.

[bobblehead]

To the contrary, I think it's more give up your fan card when you stop caring. McCarthy is a top 5 coach in the league. It's just time for something new. He'll be Andy Reid 2.0 and lead Cleveland back to the Playoffs.

Doubt it. He has never won anywhere except here. His coaching tree is a flag pole. If not for the superior roster MM gave him early on he wouldn't have lasted 5 years. I know andy reid and fat mike is no andy reid.

[ThunderDan]

^^^ I hear they only put up to $200 on a card. That's not even a snack for Stubbers.*



*Oh, I could just buy more than one card. See, I can ADJUST. I'm not a fat fucking moron.

It is all you can eat. MM doesn’t have to pay for 5 people to eat the amount he wants. $200 is just fine.

[mraynrand]

It is all you can eat. MM doesn’t have to pay for 5 people to eat the amount he wants. $200 is just fine.

I remember when the feds declared a five mile radius 'famine zone' around Denny Green. Homeland security might have to do something similar with Stubby.

[Tony Oday]

Mike Pettitine should be given the HC job and hire a good OC to take care of the offense, someone AR actually likes.

[mraynrand]

Mike Pettitine should be given the HC job and hire a good OC to take care of the offense, someone AR actually likes.

I'd prefer a HC and/or OC who can get Rodgers to throw the easy check down instead of taking sacks and punting because they can't convert third downs.

Someone explain to me who is out there who will force Rodgers' eyes to look short. At least hire a guy who will force him to hand the ball off to the most effective running back in the league a few more times.

[Rutnstrut]

Danica forces him to look short;)

[run pMc]

I'd prefer a HC and/or OC who can get Rodgers to throw the easy check down instead of taking sacks and punting because they can't convert third downs.

Someone explain to me who is out there who will force Rodgers' eyes to look short. At least hire a guy who will force him to hand the ball off to the most effective running back in the league a few more times.

This. Rodgers body language is terrible, and his performance -- even if the knee is still bothering/affecting him -- has been below average (for him). Bringing in some hotshot OC who's younger than him could be a hard sell. However, M3 calls some weird games, and the playbook updates aren't working out. Actually, the situational stuff (3rd downs, red zone) are what's really killing this team. They're putting up yards, just not when it counts...and not when it scores points.

To play devil's advocate: why does AR have to like the OC? It's his job to be the QB...plus he allegedly gets lots of input in the offense, and he can audible in/out of calls.
Appeasing your franchise player can be risky, depending on what that appeasement is and the precedent it sets.

(Caveat: I think Rodgers getting along with the coaches matters from a results perspective. IMO happy QB = less drama = less distractions = better team. I wouldn't fire a coach midseason because they disagree though.)

Does Murphy need to step in and get them to clear the air? Something is off...

[red]

yeah, ive been thinking about the next coach too

its gotta be someone strong willed who will put his foot down and correct rodgers

i don't know if a young hot shot is gonna be able to do that. we don't need another coach that a-rods if gonna walk over

and have we already gone past the point of no return. has fat mike allowed rodgers ego to grow so much that he can never be coached again?

[mraynrand]

Ironically, Stubby was the guy who came in and got Favre to bend to his will regarding protecting the ball/risky throws. So a OC/QB coach type who has some cache around the league, like Stubby did, should be able to get through to him.

[Sparkey]

100% agree. That D was gassed. Anyone who thought there was any chance of getting a stop is high. Definitely had a much better chance to convert 4th and 2.

Except for having just witnessed Rodgers try for an assist with the bounce pass to MVS. Plus watching Rodgers bitch and whine all the time, it feels like watching Jay Cutler self implode...:cnf:

I didn't think they were winning no matter what they tried.

Analogy would be two guys in a boat, each with an oar, trying to go towards oppposite shores.

Rodgers is the bigger problem right now. Third and 3, Jones is wide open in the middle, no one within 10 yards of him and Rodgers looks past him for a "bigger" play and gets tripped up for a sack. Until someone knocks pretty boy up side the hide, this will continue regardless of who the coaches are.

[ZachMN]

Except for having just witnessed Rodgers try for an assist with the bounce pass to MVS. Plus watching Rodgers bitch and whine all the time, it feels like watching Jay Cutler self implode...:cnf:

I didn't think they were winning no matter what they tried.

Analogy would be two guys in a boat, each with an oar, trying to go towards oppposite shores.

Rodgers is the bigger problem right now. Third and 3, Jones is wide open in the middle, no one within 10 yards of him and Rodgers looks past him for a "bigger" play and gets tripped up for a sack. Until someone knocks pretty boy up side the hide, this will continue regardless of who the coaches are.

And to think I got ripped last year for calling him 'Prissy Erin'. The shoe fits Cinderella. It's a double edged sword with guys like Judas and Erin; They get to a point where they think their shit don't stink. The difference between Erin and Brady is one is a winner. And don't pull the 'cheating' card out because other teams did the same things the Pats were 'busted' for....

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I'd prefer a HC and/or OC who can get Rodgers to throw the easy check down instead of taking sacks and punting because they can't convert third downs.

Someone explain to me who is out there who will force Rodgers' eyes to look short. At least hire a guy who will force him to hand the ball off to the most effective running back in the league a few more times.

Holy fuck! Yes, BRING BLACK SHERMAN!

Remember Baltimore Rodgers’ rookie year? All 12 did in that game was throw checks downs to Bill Henderson.

Sherman oversaw the greatest rushing attack in Packers history since Lombardi was promoting interracial relations for the Packers.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Season is going as I hoped it would, keep us entertained with close games but lose. Get rid of the fat walrus, fat mike, and let's try to salvage at least a couple of Rodgers remaining good years. And I still would not be surprised to see a new coach clean house, including Rodgers if the trade was advantageous to the Packers. This ain't your grandfather's NFL anymore, loyalty takes a distant back seat to winning da games. And yeah, Tex, I realize your head is gonna explode but let's see who turns out to be right.

[pbmax]

I'd prefer a HC and/or OC who can get Rodgers to throw the easy check down instead of taking sacks and punting because they can't convert third downs.

Someone explain to me who is out there who will force Rodgers' eyes to look short. At least hire a guy who will force him to hand the ball off to the most effective running back in the league a few more times.

I am not sure its not looking. Jones had two catches for 1 yard each in the second half (not all Jones fault).

This team has NEVER put drives together like the Patriots do and I think Rodgers trust this offense less than ever to do it now.

Which raises the question why did they sign him for a year if not to satisfy Rodgers?

[texaspackerbacker]

Count me in on firing McCarthy. The 4th and 2 as well as the not challenging that non-catch due to wasted time outs were the last straws for me. I would like to see him go soon, definitely at the end of the season regardless of how things go from here on.

Just the same, I doubt it happens - 60/40 or 70/30 McCarthy is still the head coach next season.

[red]

Ouch


Packers coach Mike McCarthy has parlayed the absence of a traditional owner and the presence of a transcendent quarterback into the kind of job security that few other coaches enjoy. McCarthy’s ability to escape scrutiny may now be coming to an end, and he has only himself to blame for it.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/16/mike-mccarthys-reliance-on-the-numbers-underscores-the-extent-of-his-blunder/

on 4th and 2


Definitely but we had the injuries to Kenny Clark and Mike Daniels,” McCarthy said in defending his decision. “So there was definitely consideration but we had just the one timeout and the ability to stop the clock with two minutes left. We played the numbers. We did consider taking a timeout and going for it on fourth and two.”

WTF? so because your 2 best defenders are hurt you decide to let the defense try and get the ball back

and how is it a good situation to get the ball back with 1 timeout and a 2 minute warning?

what fucking numbers? do you know how to use numbers? because i have my doubts you do

the guy is a grade A fucking idiot

[mraynrand]

Ouch



https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/16/mike-mccarthys-reliance-on-the-numbers-underscores-the-extent-of-his-blunder/

on 4th and 2



WTF? so because your 2 best defenders are hurt you decide to let the defense try and get the ball back

and how is it a good situation to get the ball back with 1 timeout and a 2 minute warning?

what fucking numbers? do you know how to use numbers? because i have my doubts you do

the guy is a grade A fucking idiot

yeah, I get it.

"For the third straight loss in a road game the Packers could have won, a member of the organization took the ball out of Aaron Rodgers‘ hands at a key moment."

Stubby just saw that third down pass. What he supposed to do? It's ugly either way, but I think you go for it. It's not that big of a blunder. To me, the (lack of) production on third down and overall in the second half is far more troubling.

[red]

yeah, I get it.

"For the third straight loss in a road game the Packers could have won, a member of the organization took the ball out of Aaron Rodgers‘ hands at a key moment."

Stubby just saw that third down pass. What he supposed to do? It's ugly either way, but I think you go for it. It's not that big of a blunder. To me, the (lack of) production on third down and overall in the second half is far more troubling.

really? in that situation with a very depleted defense, the numbers gotta say that you probably aren't getting the ball back if you punt

[mraynrand]

really? in that situation with a very depleted defense, the numbers gotta say that you probably aren't getting the ball back if you punt

I agree. I'm just saying it's not the worst blunder from the game. Plenty of others higher in the queue. (Because even if they convert the fourth, maybe they just keep mucking it up like they did THE ENTIRE SECOND HALF)

[red]

I agree. I'm just saying it's not the worst blunder from the game. Plenty of others higher in the queue. (Because even if they convert the fourth, maybe they just keep mucking it up like they did THE ENTIRE SECOND HALF)

theres no doubt about that

now i see what you're saying, thats a good point

[KYPack]

I read those PFT articles.

They were so strong on MM, I thought Red wrote 'em on a whiskey buzz..

The good ship McCarthy is going down.

Trying to figure the next coach and staff.

Mikey and '18 are toast.

[denverYooper]

Peter Bukowski
‏Verified account @Peter_Bukowski

Reporter: Why are you struggling on third down
Mike McCarthy: Third down is hard

I wish I were joking.

[ZachMN]

This from Florio: 'So, yes, in the zero-sum game that sees one bad team for every good team and that consists of coaches who either have been fired or will be fired, McCarthy finally lands where he should have been at least two years ago, when Rodgers openly complained about a lack of energy on the sidelines and a lack of ultimate accountability in the locker room.'
I've noticed this for years with this team. They lack energy, urgency....Arod saunters around...

[red]

I read those PFT articles.

They were so strong on MM, I thought Red wrote 'em on a whiskey buzz..

The good ship McCarthy is going down.

Trying to figure the next coach and staff.

Mikey and '18 are toast.

It’s not just pft

The guys on espn radio, fox sports radio and mad dog sports were all brutal

One news source even talks about how the packers want bretskys guy to take over next year

Hoodie jr

[gbgary]

if he wasn't done already Rodgers put him on life support last night. only thing left is his death gurgle.

[George Cumby]

Ggggggguuurggghhhgggfrgjkgfdhjjllll.............”

[pbmax]

PFT, ESPN Radio and any other talking heads are just bandwagoning on the bad half and a losing record. They don't know what is happening and you should not take ANYTHING they say seriously.

Florio used to think Thompson used McCarthy to guard himself against internal upheaval or replacement. He doesn't have a clue, he just has a media guide that doesn't list an owner.

Use your own eyes and don't listen to these dopes.

[pbmax]

I'm also not worried about energy or focus. Its the offense.

[red]

PFT, ESPN Radio and any other talking heads are just bandwagoning on the bad half and a losing record. They don't know what is happening and you should not take ANYTHING they say seriously.

Florio used to think Thompson used McCarthy to guard himself against internal upheaval or replacement. He doesn't have a clue, he just has a media guide that doesn't list an owner.

Use your own eyes and don't listen to these dopes.

my own eyes tell me that what they are saying is long overdue

[pbmax]

my own eyes tell me that what they are saying is long overdue

There is no nuance and they don't understand.

McCarthy needs to go but none of these dopes recognize that the odds of getting a better head coach are less than 50%. More like 30%.

[KYPack]

It’s not just pft

The guys on espn radio, fox sports radio and mad dog sports were all brutal

One news source even talks about how the packers want bretskys guy to take over next year

Hoodie jr

Oh yeah, The tom-toms are beating loudly for the boy.

He's got more heat than the sun.

This tailspin will be interesting to watch.

It immediately brings up the whole bit about moving fast to get the top candidate available.

Whoever the hell that is.

[wist43]

There is no nuance and they don't understand.

McCarthy needs to go but none of these dopes recognize that the odds of getting a better head coach are less than 50%. More like 30%.

Well, if your odds of winning a SB under the current HC are 0%... what does it matter if those odds change to -30%??

[mraynrand]

Well, if your odds of winning a SB under the current HC are 0%... what does it matter if those odds change to -30%??

LETS HIRE HUE!

[mraynrand]

There is no nuance and they don't understand.

McCarthy needs to go but none of these dopes recognize that the odds of getting a better head coach are less than 50%. More like 30%.

I hate to say it, but I think it's closer to 10%

[Joemailman]

I hate to say it, but I think it's closer to 10%

It's not that bad. Most newly hired NFL coaches are walking into worse situations than what a new coach will encounter in Green Bay. A new coach in Green Bay will inherit a top 5 LT, top 5 WR, top 10 QB, top 10 RB, top 10 TE and 2 top DT's.

And Fackrell.

[ZachMN]

PFT, ESPN Radio and any other talking heads are just bandwagoning on the bad half and a losing record. They don't know what is happening and you should not take ANYTHING they say seriously.

Florio used to think Thompson used McCarthy to guard himself against internal upheaval or replacement. He doesn't have a clue, he just has a media guide that doesn't list an owner.

Use your own eyes and don't listen to these dopes.

I do use my own eyes and I put that quote from Florio there because I SEE the lack of urgency and resolve in this team game after game year after year.......from a purely objective standpoint the x's and o's are important but sometimes know how to light a fire under someone's ass is more important especially in a game where emotions can take over a game...honestly does this coaching staff take into account how much opposing defenses get up for taking on a guy like Rodgers? I can SEE that when I watch games....and the part about lack of energy was from Rodgers.

[pbmax]

Well, if your odds of winning a SB under the current HC are 0%... what does it matter if those odds change to -30%??

Because the odds never go to zero and he is good enough to get you to the playoffs on a regular basis. There are 10-12 guys who can do that.

[pbmax]

I do use my own eyes and I put that quote from Florio there because I SEE the lack of urgency and resolve in this team game after game year after year.......from a purely objective standpoint the x's and o's are important but sometimes know how to light a fire under someone's ass is more important especially in a game where emotions can take over a game...honestly does this coaching staff take into account how much opposing defenses get up for taking on a guy like Rodgers? I can SEE that when I watch games....and the part about lack of energy was from Rodgers.

I think you are seeing frustration. Perhaps indigestion.

But not lack of fire. Its the oldest complaint in the book and even when correct, doesn't tell us much.

[ptisme]

So everyone wants MM fired... And rightly so... But why isn't Murphy's head on the block??? He's the one who had to be told to move on from Thompson when it was clear he couldn't medically do his job. He's the one who forced McCarthy on his new GM and created some bullsh t hierarchy where the game plan has to go through him and the GM's hands are tied behind his back.. How is it that he stuck his beak into the playbook and has no culpability? The good old boy's network up there is coming home to roost.

[Fritz]

I called for his head in another thread. Let's get this thing rolling!

It's ALL Murphy's fault! It's been going down the tubes, like a turd slowly swirling down a toilet bowl, ever since Murph arrived on the scene.

[Pugger]

Ouch



https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/16/mike-mccarthys-reliance-on-the-numbers-underscores-the-extent-of-his-blunder/

on 4th and 2



WTF? so because your 2 best defenders are hurt you decide to let the defense try and get the ball back

and how is it a good situation to get the ball back with 1 timeout and a 2 minute warning?

what fucking numbers? do you know how to use numbers? because i have my doubts you do

the guy is a grade A fucking idiot

I could almost understand why Stubby decided to punt because of where we were on the field. You do that when you have the lead. But we didn't have the damn lead. Plus our defense was banged up with a couple of practice squad DBs running around like chickens with their heads cut off. To ask that depleted defense to stop Wilson and company was asking a hell of a lot. That Seattle game was a must win. Losing that essentially eliminated us from the post season. We now almost have to run the table but with the way we've been playing that ain't happening.

Perhaps losing that game was a blessing in disguise. I can't believe Gute and Murphy will keep Stubby around seeing we'll miss the playoffs again this year. Rodgers isn't getting any younger. How much longer are we gonna squander the remaining years of Rodgers' career with this crap?

[mraynrand]

That Seattle game was a must win.

Not necessarily. Packers have three Divisional games remaining. Those are must wins for sure. Packers probably can't afford another loss, certainly not more than one, but you never know. The best chance for the playoffs now involves winning their Division, except that the second wildcard looks reachable, unless I've forgotten a team. (Carolina almost assuredly is first WC). It's a long season.

[ptisme]

I could almost understand why Stubby decided to punt because of where we were on the field. You do that when you have the lead. But we didn't have the damn lead. Plus our defense was banged up with a couple of practice squad DBs running around like chickens with their heads cut off. To ask that depleted defense to stop Wilson and company was asking a hell of a lot. That Seattle game was a must win. Losing that essentially eliminated us from the post season. We now almost have to run the table but with the way we've been playing that ain't happening.

Perhaps losing that game was a blessing in disguise. I can't believe Gute and Murphy will keep Stubby around seeing we'll miss the playoffs again this year. Rodgers isn't getting any younger. How much longer are we gonna squander the remaining years of Rodgers' career with this crap?
I'd also add the awesome rushing game Seattle was exhibiting and the fact that the defense was exhausted (and injury riddled)... So dumb....

[ptisme]

Not necessarily. Packers have three Divisional games remaining. Those are must wins for sure. Packers probably can't afford another loss, certainly not more than one, but you never know. The best chance for the playoffs now involves winning their Division, except that the second wildcard looks reachable, unless I've forgotten a team. (Carolina almost assuredly is first WC). It's a long season.


So looking forward to a playoff game in New Orleans..............

[mraynrand]

So looking forward to a playoff game in New Orleans..............

Could make that ATL NFCC game look competitive by comparison!

BRING BLACK GUNTER!!

[ptisme]

Mike Pettitine should be given the HC job and hire a good OC to take care of the offense, someone AR actually likes.

I'd rather Pettine stay DC and they hire an OC from someone else like John Defilippo.

[ptisme]

I am not sure its not looking. Jones had two catches for 1 yard each in the second half (not all Jones fault).

This team has NEVER put drives together like the Patriots do and I think Rodgers trust this offense less than ever to do it now.

Which raises the question why did they sign him for a year if not to satisfy Rodgers?

I think they signed him for a year because they thought they were maybe a good draft and a player away.. They felt the new DC would raise the defensive play and with the normally explosive offense maybe go on a championship run... Maybe Murphy trusted MM and his compromise with Gute was a one year extension.

[ptisme]

I do use my own eyes and I put that quote from Florio there because I SEE the lack of urgency and resolve in this team game after game year after year.......from a purely objective standpoint the x's and o's are important but sometimes know how to light a fire under someone's ass is more important especially in a game where emotions can take over a game...honestly does this coaching staff take into account how much opposing defenses get up for taking on a guy like Rodgers? I can SEE that when I watch games....and the part about lack of energy was from Rodgers.

I would add to this that the lack of urgency comes from the VERY TOP of this organization

[pbmax]

I think they signed him for a year because they thought they were maybe a good draft and a player away.. They felt the new DC would raise the defensive play and with the normally explosive offense maybe go on a championship run... Maybe Murphy trusted MM and his compromise with Gute was a one year extension.

But they signed him to an extension mid-year last year. Before the new GM was in place. Who was telling Murphy they were one good draft away from the Super Bowl?

Here is the next fun question: Did McCarthy promise to rework his offense in response to some encouragement to do so? If that is the case, goodbye Mike.

[gbgary]

why isn't Murphy's head on the block??? He's the one who had to be told to move on from Thompson when it was clear he couldn't medically do his job. He's the one who forced McCarthy on his new GM and created some bullsh t hierarchy where the game plan has to go through him and the GM's hands are tied behind his back.. How is it that he stuck his beak into the playbook and has no culpability? The good old boy's network up there is coming home to roost.

because he wasn't part of the football operation until this year. he's set it up for accountability now. got to give it time to see how it works out. the only one not accountable now is Rodgers. the ridiculous extension insured that.

[Bretsky]

I'd rather Pettine stay DC and they hire an OC from someone else like John Defilippo.



WINNER

[Joemailman]

Ouch



https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/16/mike-mccarthys-reliance-on-the-numbers-underscores-the-extent-of-his-blunder/

on 4th and 2



WTF? so because your 2 best defenders are hurt you decide to let the defense try and get the ball back

and how is it a good situation to get the ball back with 1 timeout and a 2 minute warning?

what fucking numbers? do you know how to use numbers? because i have my doubts you do

the guy is a grade A fucking idiot

What makes punting on 4th and 2 so bad is that there's not that much risk in it. Even if you don't make it you're still in the game. The reason is you're only down 3 points. If you don't make it you still have a chance to force a 3 and out (which you're counting on if you're punting) and hold them to a field goal. You then still have a chance to win the game with about 2 minutes left.

I too wonder what "numbers" MM was looking at. The numbers that mattered were the Seahawks being the NFL's #1 rushing team and their average in the game of 5 YPC. Somehow despite all that the chances of the defense getting a 3 and out were deemed greater than the chances of the offense gaining 2 yards.

MM is ztarting to remind me of 2005 Sherman when that Mike seemed to make some inexplicable moves as the season fell aparf.

[mraynrand]

Bad call, Ripley

[pbmax]

What makes punting on 4th and 2 so bad is that there's not that much risk in it. Even if you don't make it you're still in the game. The reason is you're only down 3 points. If you don't make it you still have a chance to force a 3 and out (which you're counting on if you're punting) and hold them to a field goal. You then still have a chance to win the game with about 2 minutes left.

I too wonder what "numbers" MM was looking at. The numbers that mattered were the Seahawks being the NFL's #1 rushing team and their average in the game of 5 YPC. Somehow despite all that the chances of the defense getting a 3 and out were deemed greater than the chances of the offense gaining 2 yards.

MM is ztarting to remind me of 2005 Sherman when that Mike seemed to make some inexplicable moves as the season fell aparf.

He didn't go with numbers. That was just something to say in the press conference.

If he had any data in mind, it was that a longer field is easier to defend.

Other than his occasional mentions of numbers or analytics, there is nothing to suggest he or the numbers expert he got from the Vikings goes any further than winning teams run a lot at the end of games.

[KYPack]

I'd rather Pettine stay DC and they hire an OC from someone else like John Defilippo.

PT, good to cya back posting over here.

Keep em coming.

[George Cumby]

Bad call, Ripley

He’s just a grunt.

[ptisme]

PT, good to cya back posting over here.

Keep em coming.

Thank you sir:)

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Thank you sir:)

What is up, pt. Pay no attention to the Kentucky. He hated your posts at the Bubblers. :tup:

[KYPack]

Thank you sir:)

Yer welcome.

Oh Yeah, Tank is on here, he's just as big a bullshit artist as he was on Bubbler.

He was on here last month posting about what an "awesome poster" he was there!

[mraynrand]

It's not that bad. Most newly hired NFL coaches are walking into worse situations than what a new coach will encounter in Green Bay. A new coach in Green Bay will inherit a top 5 LT, top 5 WR, top 10 QB, top 10 RB, top 10 TE and 2 top DT's.

And Fackrell.


These are important points, but don't say whether the new coach will be better. The new coach could be worse, but better players help him win more games. Or a worse coach could ruin good players. That's why I think getting rid of Stubby may feel good, but it's less likely they get a better coach. The stipulation is that Gute/Murphy may be even a greater executive combo than we imagine, and will recruit the third most successful coach in Packer history. There's no way to know until it happens.

[pbmax]

These are important points, but don't say whether the new coach will be better. The new coach could be worse, but better players help him win more games. Or a worse coach could ruin good players. That's why I think getting rid of Stubby may feel good, but it's less likely they get a better coach. The stipulation is that Gute/Murphy may be even a greater executive combo than we imagine, and will recruit the third most successful coach in Packer history. There's no way to know until it happens.

We need a time machine and Frank Reich.

Or, if we want some experience with college/high school offenses AND some play designing creativity, we grab Gus Malzahn as the offensive minded head coach. Or, if you want experience dealing with those offenses, we grab Kirby Smart and then steal someone from the Chiefs/Eagles to run the offense.

[pbmax]

These are important points, but don't say whether the new coach will be better. The new coach could be worse, but better players help him win more games. Or a worse coach could ruin good players. That's why I think getting rid of Stubby may feel good, but it's less likely they get a better coach. The stipulation is that Gute/Murphy may be even a greater executive combo than we imagine, and will recruit the third most successful coach in Packer history. There's no way to know until it happens.

I thought the Bears game might have put you over the edge and you decided enough was enough, leave while the head to head record is in the Packers favor :D

[mraynrand]

I thought the Bears game might have put you over the edge and you decided enough was enough, leave while the head to head record is in the Packers favor :D

The constant injuries destroying every year gets to me.

[mraynrand]

We need a time machine and Frank Reich.

Alt Reich!

[The Shadow]

I believe the last exciting innovation Mike McCarthy fully embraced was the microwave oven.

[Joemailman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtGxusvUT3k

[esoxx]

I believe the last exciting innovation Mike McCarthy fully embraced was the microwave oven.

You're too kind. It was the cotton weave.

[pbmax]

You're too kind. It was the cotton weave.

Pressure cooker.

[esoxx]

Stubby

[mraynrand]

Stubby

Excessive Stubbiness.

[George Cumby]

Are they gonna get that fixed?

[bobblehead]

Bump...just cuz this belongs pinned to the top.

[Fritz]

I don't know if you fire him or not. Is he adaptable enough to fix things, is it a one-year soft rebuild that, with a legitimate big-time pass rusher, some new o-line blood and some experience for Tonyan and the young wideouts can be fixed? Or is the whole thing toxic, and Ted just the whipping boy for even bigger problems?

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Hell yes, you fire him! And even though the odds of finding a good head coach on 1st retry is 30%, that is WAY better than putting up with the bullshit we have had to watch. And the sad part, is the dude thinks he is a great coach. Arrogant prick....

[pbmax]

I don't know if you fire him or not. Is he adaptable enough to fix things, is it a one-year soft rebuild that, with a legitimate big-time pass rusher, some new o-line blood and some experience for Tonyan and the young wideouts can be fixed? Or is the whole thing toxic, and Ted just the whipping boy for even bigger problems?

One of his strengths is maintaining control of his team. But he has lost his offense. His area of specialty is now performing like his special teams.

The disconnect between reality and the plan were evident the minute Spriggs had to start for Bach. Suddenly, it was a whole new offense for a drive.

So it can be done, but he isn't doing it.

Forget if you think its Rodgers or McCarthy doing this damage. Rodgers is the rarer talent. You keep him. Dump the coach who hasn't figured out his own team's shortcomings yet.

We have had parts of three games (Bears. Vikings 1 and 2) that have showed what this offense could be. But it refuses to be that.

[mraynrand]

Quick question re: the road losses: which teams (specifically NE, LAR, MN, SEA) have worse talent than the Packers. Be honest and line 'em up across the board. Which teams have QBs being outplayed by Rodgers? Do the Packers have a well stocked defense with multiple pro bowl players? Who are their difference-makers? If you find yourself saying "Gee, the Packers really have a mostly depleted defense and a pretty marginal offense with a historically underperforming QB" you might begin to wonder about whether the problem is mostly coaching or mostly personnel. My point is that EVERYONE around the NFL thinks the Packers win because Rodgers plays great football, not because they are loaded with talent. And this year, the cupboard is almost completely bare, and Rodgers is mostly playing like a slightly above average NFL starter. So whose fault is that?

[Joemailman]

I don't know if you fire him or not. Is he adaptable enough to fix things, is it a one-year soft rebuild that, with a legitimate big-time pass rusher, some new o-line blood and some experience for Tonyan and the young wideouts can be fixed? Or is the whole thing toxic, and Ted just the whipping boy for even bigger problems?
MM was given a 1 year extension last offseason so 2018 would not be a lame duck year for him. That made 2018 a prove it year for him. I think you now have to make a coaching change or offer him an extension. Does anyone want an extension at this point?