More Banjo: Week 5 @ Detroit

[pbmax]

Face plant for one half. Better but not good enough in the second half.

Turnovers, penalties, errors, a bad call (that ball never touched King) and two big plays killed a sputtering offense and an improved but still leaky D.

Played like a bunch of youngsters. Led big in yards but trailed in the score the entire game. Red zone is a problem again.

Jones just doesn't get work in must pass situations and that shelved him in the second half.

Second worst news (after the offense) might be that ST, a strength last year, is playing horrible and Crosby is now in a funk.

Injuries: Brice came off the field late, Clark got poked in the face, King was bleeding like Chuck Cecil

[pbmax]

On Jones and pass catching:

@slightedge17
Interesting you say that. Maybe because they don’t try it? Every time he [Jones] has had a shot he has done good. College would also suggest your wrong.

Packer Report @PackerReport
he had the worst receiving numbers of any player in NFL history last season. I’ve written that many times.

[pbmax]

Rodgers:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Do73qkqX4AARN1l.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Do74p4VXkAA9I2M.jpg

[pbmax]

Michael Cohen @Michael_Cohen13
Here's a stat: Sunday marked just the second time in Aaron Rodgers' career that he's lost multiple fumbles in the same game. Rodgers has had a number of games with more than one fumble, but this was only the second time an opposing team recovered two or more. #Packers

Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
Packers have 11 penalties for 107 yards.

Rob Demovsky @RobDemovsky
Mason Crosby on his five missed kicks: "I've done this a long time and I've never had a game like that. This is uncharted territory." https://es.pn/2NqwekM

Rob Demovsky @RobDemovsky
Mason Crosby is the first kicker with five missed kicks (4 FGs and a PAT) in a game since at least 2001, according to ESPN Stats & Information. https://es.pn/2Pku33V

[pbmax]

Eric Edholm @Eric_Edholm
Packers are 23-23-1 in their past 47 regular-season games

9 missed by Rodgers, 5 this year on bad leg. Pretty mediocre though.

[Rutnstrut]

They had plenty of time to give Jones some runs in that second half. Hell they gave some to worthless Montgomery. It's a piss poor excuse. The main problem is a QB and a head coach that only want to win their way, the big pass play.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I saw Rodgers playing on a bad leg. I saw receivers covered tightly. Rodgers was unable to buy time scrambling, and his accuracy was off.

I've also seen all year that the Lions are a pretty decent team. PAckers were underdogs in this game for a reason.

Take away Crosby's nightmare game, and the freaky punt turnover near the endzone, and Packers probably win the game.

[mraynrand]

Crosby just missed another FG

[pbmax]

They had plenty of time to give Jones some runs in that second half. Hell they gave some to worthless Montgomery. It's a piss poor excuse. The main problem is a QB and a head coach that only want to win their way, the big pass play.

Mainly, they want to QB to stay upright. And they have never compromised on the back who blocks in pass pro. That's how they got two years of Brandon Jackson.

You stick Jones out there and the defense plays the run. And if you pass, greater threat of Rodgers getting drilled.

[Rutnstrut]

Mainly, they want to QB to stay upright. And they have never compromised on the back who blocks in pass pro. That's how they got two years of Brandon Jackson.

You stick Jones out there and the defense plays the run. And if you pass, greater threat of Rodgers getting drilled.



Yeah because they were protecting Rodgers so well the way they played it. How many times did he get sacked? How many hurries? How many QB hits?

[pbmax]

Yeah because they were protecting Rodgers so well the way they played it. How many times did he get sacked? How many hurries? How many QB hits?

And your recommendation is for him to get hit more?

If they are going to fall behind by three scores while using Jones in a first half, then they are going to have to protect better in the second while passing to catch up.

Jones had some awful numbers in the passing game last year (remember all the screen drops?) so it will need to be do or die with both Monty and Williams failing for the plan to change. Because the only thing worse than no Jones is no Rodgers.

[channtheman]

Bad ST, bad defense, bad offense, bad penalties, bad turnovers, bad sense of urgency, bad execution, bad holding the ball too long. Ugh, ugly ugly game. Is it any wonder we lost? Of 5 games this year, not one has been much fun to watch at all. We got down big immediately in 3 of them, blew a lead against the Queens, and looked horrible against a terrible Bills team. Yawn.

[mraynrand]

Rodgers took the blame for at least two of the fumbles. Really he had a lot of time to throw.

It would be nice if Jones were reliable in the passing game because rn when he’s in the defense can pretty much key on run. Even the stupid announcers figured this out with the Graham/Lewis duo.

I would agree that you have to give Jones at least a couple of targets just to keep the defense honest. But it’s hard to do when you’re looking 45 yards downfield all the time and coughing up the ball.

[pbmax]

Rodgers took the blame for at least two of the fumbles. Really he had a lot of time to throw.

It would be nice if Jones were reliable in the passing game because rn when he’s in the defense can pretty much key on run. Even the stupid announcers figured this out with the Graham/Lewis duo.

I would agree that you have to give Jones at least a couple of targets just to keep the defense honest. But it’s hard to do when you’re looking 45 yards downfield all the time and coughing up the ball.

I think the fear is more blocking than receiving, but I could be wrong. Has to be a mix of both.

Given the state of the offense and the injuries though, I am not sure there is much choice. The WR screen they tried to run with 83 in the backfield didn't succeed either.

[mraynrand]

I think the fear is more blocking than receiving, but I could be wrong. Has to be a mix of both.

Sure, either or both is sufficient to make him unreliable. But you have to have him out there for some passing downs to throw off the scent.

[pbmax]

Sure, either or both is sufficient to make him unreliable. But you have to have him out there for some passing downs to throw off the scent.

Play action fakes work better too.

[Joemailman]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/08/good-bad-and-ugly-from-packers-sloppy-loss-to-lions/

Not sure if this should go in this thread, or in the Fire MM Thread. Either way, it's hard to argue with it.


Packers Offense: Last week, Aaron Rodgers said the Packers offense looked like that of a non-playoff team. After two quarters Sunday, it barely looked like a professional football team. The Packers offense looked as uninspired, undisciplined, and sloppy as it has looked all year. Aaron Rodgers was missing easy throws and giving up the football. Not to be outdone, Mike McCarthy continued to simply not use Aaron Jones, who only logged 22 snaps, and continued to force his receivers to consistently get open on isolation routes, which just resulted in Rodgers being forced to hang onto the ball and take hits. As stated last week, it’s tough to watch teams like the Los Angeles Rams, Kansas City Chiefs, and even the Chicago Bears utilize modern offensive schemes, while the Packers continue to essentially bank on Rodgers bailing them out. Something has to change if the Packers want to compete in the NFC, but it doesn’t seem like it will.

[red]

that sums it up pretty nicely

i could have been written by about half the people on this site

[Tony Oday]

I still don't know why in the last decade it takes a month or so to get the offense running. The defense played well enough to win but didn't make the impact plays we needed. I pray that the Croz just has the one bad game. It is a puzzle to the entire fucking world that AJ does not get the rock a lot more.

[pbmax]

McCarthy did not just run the isolation routes, but its still too much a part of their game. They ran some nice slants off a receiver stack and flat/slant combo, Adams had a couple of those catches for good yardage. But several times and at least twice in the red zone, it was back to static offense and one on one matchups. Lions just mauled them early and hope the pass rush would arrive.

I think this is only partially by design. McCarthy does still trust this part of his offense and he has not committed to revamping the whole thing. But when they no huddle, I think these kinds of static plays happen more often AND especially when they go Rodgers extended offense.

I do think I have figured out the most baffling route of all, the 7 yard vertical, stop and turn around route. I think this is a byproduct of the hurry up and the Rodgers extended offense. I don't think all WR get the play call in the no huddle, or that play call is shortened to a couple of routes on one side of the ball. And those that don't get a specific job do this as a placeholder, driving off the defender, turning around and looking to see if the play is extended.

[red]

I still don't know why in the last decade it takes a month or so to get the offense running. The defense played well enough to win but didn't make the impact plays we needed. I pray that the Croz just has the one bad game. It is a puzzle to the entire fucking world that AJ does not get the rock a lot more.

Little to no pre season work for a-rod and the #1s

[Joemailman]

Little to no pre season work for a-rod and the #1s

That could be a factor early. But in Week 5? That's just an excuse, not a reason.

[Packgator]

Eric Edholm @Eric_Edholm
Packers are 23-23-1 in their past 47 regular-season games

9 missed by Rodgers, 5 this year on bad leg. Pretty mediocre though.

23-23-1 says it all. Mediocre is what they are/have been for 47 games.

[Joemailman]

Offensive snap counts:

https://primary-cdn-shortstop.espn.net/cd3311b1-641c-4624-8b18-6f1c418f6360.png

Defensive snap counts:

https://primary-cdn-shortstop.espn.net/c122c8b8-2462-4d73-927e-6438ab0833ac.png

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Offensive snap counts:

https://primary-cdn-shortstop.espn.net/cd3311b1-641c-4624-8b18-6f1c418f6360.png

Defensive snap counts:

https://primary-cdn-shortstop.espn.net/c122c8b8-2462-4d73-927e-6438ab0833ac.png

WTF? J-Alex didn’t play?

Dumb Mike needs to bring back the Friday practice! Team has been underprepared, and taking Fridays off ain’t preventing team from milksopism!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I still don't know why in the last decade it takes a month or so to get the offense running. The defense played well enough to win but didn't make the impact plays we needed. I pray that the Croz just has the one bad game. It is a puzzle to the entire fucking world that AJ does not get the rock a lot more.

Fuck the run. Packers are a passing team. Dumb Mike tired to play smash mouth futbol in 1st half and Pack scored nada.

Just throw the fuckin rock 70 times a game!

[Joemailman]

Josh Jones with 4 defensive snaps. Starting to wonder if TT used a 2nd round pick on a guy who can't grasp the defense, and is therefore mainly just a ST player.

[Bossman641]

McCarthy did not just run the isolation routes, but its still too much a part of their game. They ran some nice slants off a receiver stack and flat/slant combo, Adams had a couple of those catches for good yardage. But several times and at least twice in the red zone, it was back to static offense and one on one matchups. Lions just mauled them early and hope the pass rush would arrive.

I think this is only partially by design. McCarthy does still trust this part of his offense and he has not committed to revamping the whole thing. But when they no huddle, I think these kinds of static plays happen more often AND especially when they go Rodgers extended offense.

I do think I have figured out the most baffling route of all, the 7 yard vertical, stop and turn around route. I think this is a byproduct of the hurry up and the Rodgers extended offense. I don't think all WR get the play call in the no huddle, or that play call is shortened to a couple of routes on one side of the ball. And those that don't get a specific job do this as a placeholder, driving off the defender, turning around and looking to see if the play is extended.

Yep I agree. The red zone offense is extremely stale. It's frustrating to watch other teams use motion, misdirection, picks, and forcing the other defense into communication errors while we just line up and play.

[mraynrand]

McCarthy did not just run the isolation routes, but its still too much a part of their game. They ran some nice slants off a receiver stack and flat/slant combo, Adams had a couple of those catches for good yardage. But several times and at least twice in the red zone, it was back to static offense and one on one matchups. Lions just mauled them early and hope the pass rush would arrive.

I think this is only partially by design. McCarthy does still trust this part of his offense and he has not committed to revamping the whole thing. But when they no huddle, I think these kinds of static plays happen more often AND especially when they go Rodgers extended offense.

I do think I have figured out the most baffling route of all, the 7 yard vertical, stop and turn around route. I think this is a byproduct of the hurry up and the Rodgers extended offense. I don't think all WR get the play call in the no huddle, or that play call is shortened to a couple of routes on one side of the ball. And those that don't get a specific job do this as a placeholder, driving off the defender, turning around and looking to see if the play is extended.

Good thought. I was thinking this also could be that many plays are set up for a mismatch(es) that Rodgers identifies pre-snap. If he’s wrong/the play gets blown up, it’s scramble drill.

[mraynrand]

Good thought. I was thinking this also could be that many plays are set up for a mismatch(es) that Rodgers identifies pre-snap. If he’s wrong/the play gets blown up, it’s scramble drill.

Oh, and if the optimal matchup is on a deep or slow developing route Rodgers may have such tunnel vision as to ignore or miss another open route. (But he could miss an open guy even on a quick hitter like the MVS play on fourth down vs Buffalo where Adams was briefly open for the first down).

[mraynrand]

Fuck the run. Packers are a passing team. Dumb Mike tired to play smash mouth futbol in 1st half and Pack scored nada.

Just throw the fuckin rock 70 times a game!

Rodgers fumbled on smash mouth runs?

[Pugger]

I saw Rodgers playing on a bad leg. I saw receivers covered tightly. Rodgers was unable to buy time scrambling, and his accuracy was off.

I've also seen all year that the Lions are a pretty decent team. PAckers were underdogs in this game for a reason.

Take away Crosby's nightmare game, and the freaky punt turnover near the endzone, and Packers probably win the game.

this

[Pugger]

WTF? J-Alex didn’t play?

Dumb Mike needs to bring back the Friday practice! Team has been underprepared, and taking Fridays off ain’t preventing team from milksopism!

Alexander didn't play because he was hurt - groin injury.

[Pugger]

I purposely stayed away from all Packers forums I usually visit after games. I had a feeling folks would be pissed. I'm glad I could watch the Crew afterwards. It made the day a little brighter.

Did we really come out flat? We forced them to punt right away. Unfortunately we got into an early hole with that botched call by the zebras before everyone was in their seats. I too thought the ball went off a Lion player and not King (what happened to him later on?). Everything seemed to get worse after that.

Not having Cobb and Geronimo killed our passing game IMO. The young guys had issues getting open causing AR to hold onto the ball too long. I recall in one play where Rodgers fumbled after getting hit from behind 2 of our WRs ran into each other and both were knocked out the play. :| Some of Rodgers passes are not on target but he isn't 100% yet. Thankfully we have a bye after the 9er game next weekend.

Crosby had a nightmare of a game. He is usually steady Eddie but not yesterday. Had he hit all of those FGs and one of the extra points we win that game even with all of our miscues.

Penalties are a real problem right now, especially holding calls. Its almost getting to the point where our punt returners shouldn't even bother. :(

Most of the the time when the Lions had to go the length of the field in the second half of the game they were unsuccessful and that was a positive. They couldn't run the ball at all to eat up the clock. I don't think they got 100 yards on the ground. Eventually we got something going but it was almost too little too late.

I applaud Mac for sending Crosby out there to try another FG in the waning moments of that disaster. It was a good thing for Mason to end on a positive note. And it was great to see AR console him and he was the first guy off the bench to hug Mason after that last FG.

In conclusion I'm not ready to give up yet. We had a couple of bad games. Been there, done that and we were fine. Now, if things continue to go south against San Fran then we can panic. Be glad we aren't the Falcons...

[Rutnstrut]

So if they beat the 49'ers but barely and look terrible doing it. Will those of you that aren't worried now then be worried?

[run pMc]

Right now GB is what their record says: a .500 team. Rodgers and Adams on O and Kenny Clark on D are about the only players that might scare a team. There's a chance they will gel soon but they have to do it fast. Schedule gets tough real quick.
Overall I didn't think Rodgers was sharp yesterday, and when 2 of your top 3 WRs are hurt there will be struggles. I saw some routes where they couldn't get open, and other times they are but 12 doesn't throw them the ball. I don't know what to make of the offense, it's out of sync. It wasn't a pass protection thing -- generally he had time.

The D is still very much a work in progress, and I think they will get better. King had a bad game, and there was the TD where HHCD vacated the middle that made me scratch my head. They have to fix the pass rush and they'll be ok. Unfortunately, that won't happen until next season at the soonest.

The Crosby FGs were stunners to me...he's usually automatic from 40 in. He missed the XP vs. BUF last week, so I wonder if he's working thru something mechanical/timing with the two rookies?

Can someone get them to quit committing penalties?

[red]

this

when your offense puts up over 500 yards but has to rely on 5 FG attempts to beat a team that had 260 yards, you've got a huge problem

add to that,we were losing by 11 before crosbys fg that ment nothing. so in order for us to win, crosby would have had to go 4-4. not a tall order, but still tough

[ThunderDan]

Detroit 1st half drives:
8 plays 29 yards Punt
1 play 1 yard TD
4 plays 69 yards TD
4 plays 1 yard FG
5 plays 19 yards Punt
6 plays 19 yards Punt
4 plays 22 yards TD

A lot of short fields that the O handed to Det. The only thing I can really fault the D on is stopping Det in the red zone.

[ThunderDan]

That is 93 yards of offense to put up 24 points. Not only did the O not perform in the 1st half, it shot the D in the foot in the process.

[Joemailman]

That is 93 yards of offense to put up 24 points. Not only did the O not perform in the 1st half, it shot the D in the foot in the process.

More like the groin.

[Pugger]

when your offense puts up over 500 yards but has to rely on 5 FG attempts to beat a team that had 260 yards, you've got a huge problem

add to that,we were losing by 11 before crosbys fg that ment nothing. so in order for us to win, crosby would have had to go 4-4. not a tall order, but still tough

I was looking for silver linings but yes, our offense is sputtering right now but it isn't like it is terminal. I think it can be fixed. We just don't have the luxury of a long season to figure it out. Perhaps playing a bad team like the 9ers and then having a week off to lick our wounds will be the elixir this team needs to get back on track.

[pbmax]

Packer Report @PackerReport
Talking to reporters back home (I'm in Dee-Troit), McCarthy reiterates that there's more to playing running back than running the football.

John Tracy @jdtracy
It's the 80 of the 80/20 rule though, right?

Packer Report @PackerReport
Not when you throw the ball 70 percent of the time.

[pbmax]

Michael Cohen @Michael_Cohen13
#Packers CB Kevin King says the ball didn’t touch him on the punt in the first quarter. He encouraged reporters to put that out there. #Lions were awarded the ball at the 1-yard line and quickly scored.

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
Mike McCarthy said he felt they were balanced in the first half and went to a no-huddle in the second. Said big thing was didn't take care of the football. Common thread he's focusing on is taking care of the football.

McCarthy: We're physically beat up. We have to get more detailed. Take care of the football and penalties are things to focus on. Penalties are too high. We're having almost twice as many as our opponent.

McCarthy on Aaron Jones: Way the game goes and strength of the players on the football. He's dynamic with the ball in his hands. But there's more to the position than just running the football. We have diversity in our attack with three guys. All have excellent attributes.

McCarthy: I'd love to get Aaron more opportunities.

McCarthy on Rodgers: He's playing through a lot. Played through a lot in the game. He's given us a lot. That's the reality.

McCarthy: I still believe in Mason. But he's got to make those kicks.

McCarthy said there's hope that CB Jaire Alexander might be able to play this week.

[red]

Packer Report @PackerReport
Talking to reporters back home (I'm in Dee-Troit), McCarthy reiterates that there's more to playing running back than running the football.

John Tracy @jdtracy
It's the 80 of the 80/20 rule though, right?

Packer Report @PackerReport
Not when you throw the ball 70 percent of the time.

maybe thats the problem? mccarthy is a fucking idiot that doesn't have a clue

[red]

Michael Cohen @Michael_Cohen13
#Packers CB Kevin King says the ball didn’t touch him on the punt in the first quarter. He encouraged reporters to put that out there. #Lions were awarded the ball at the 1-yard line and quickly scored.

i would like to hear why there wasn't a clear replay of the play until a second AFTER the review, and then it was clear as day

[Joemailman]

King reiterated today what I thought at the time which was that he certainly didn't react like a receiving player would if the ball hit him.

[red]

Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
Mike McCarthy said he felt they were balanced in the first half and went to a no-huddle in the second. Said big thing was didn't take care of the football. Common thread he's focusing on is taking care of the football.

McCarthy: We're physically beat up. We have to get more detailed. Take care of the football and penalties are things to focus on. Penalties are too high. We're having almost twice as many as our opponent.
.

seems to be a running theme for a few years now. he says we have to fix those things

maybe he should actually do it one of these days

[Rutnstrut]

Stubby doesn't want to run the ball. It has NOTHING to do with Jones not being capable in pass protection. Even if it did, a good coach would get that dynamic player the ball. Stubby is a fucking idiot.

[pbmax]

Stubby doesn't want to run the ball. It has NOTHING to do with Jones not being capable in pass protection. Even if it did, a good coach would get that dynamic player the ball. Stubby is a fucking idiot.

They ran quite a bit in the first half while going down by 3 scores.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Alexander didn't play because he was hurt - groin injury.

I honestly didn't realize that Alexander missed the game til I read the Mailman's post. I saw Troy Brown or Tony Brown get flagged for being cocky and shit, but I was like, why the fuck isn't Breeland out there?

Anyways, to sit out b/c of a groin malady, that's certainly a definition of milksopism.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Rodgers fumbled on smash mouth runs?

Sure, the fumbles were inexcusable and Rodgers has a penchant for being Majik-Manesque with fumbles, but all running the rock does is distort the Great Arm of Butte's fragile rhythm.

[Fosco33]

Tj watt w/ 6 sacks so far this year...

[bobblehead]

They had plenty of time to give Jones some runs in that second half. Hell they gave some to worthless Montgomery. It's a piss poor excuse. The main problem is a QB and a head coach that only want to win their way, the big pass play.

Someone like Hoody or Peyton or Mcvay or Gruden is going to grab Monty this offseason and prove what an awful stubborn closed minded coach MM is.

[bobblehead]

Josh Jones with 4 defensive snaps. Starting to wonder if TT used a 2nd round pick on a guy who can't grasp the defense, and is therefore mainly just a ST player.

He was drafted to play the position that Burks now mans. He made mental mistakes being a traditional safety last year after practicing as an in the box ILB all spring and MM is too dumb to get over it.

[bobblehead]

Packer Report @PackerReport
Talking to reporters back home (I'm in Dee-Troit), McCarthy reiterates that there's more to playing running back than running the football.

John Tracy @jdtracy
It's the 80 of the 80/20 rule though, right?

Packer Report @PackerReport
Not when you throw the ball 70 percent of the time.

Perhaps that is a problem of itself?

[bobblehead]

They ran quite a bit in the first half while going down by 3 scores.

Those scores came under dubious circumstances. And while they ran a lot....Williams getting 1.5 yards isn't what we are bitching about.

[pbmax]

Those scores came under dubious circumstances. And while they ran a lot....Williams getting 1.5 yards isn't what we are bitching about.

The point was in rebuttal to the idea that McCarthy actively tries not to run and is too dumb to recognize talent when its there. Both are exaggerations of other conditions.

Jones had a lot of carries in the first half. 11 if memory serves. He disappeared when they wanted to pass in the second half. Jones is not the best blocker and his receiving numbers last year were pretty terrible.

They view it as necessary to keep Rodgers upright that Jones cannot be trusted to be the lone back in must pass situations. If their record gets bad enough, he will reconsider this.

[pbmax]

He was drafted to play the position that Burks now mans. He made mental mistakes being a traditional safety last year after practicing as an in the box ILB all spring and MM is too dumb to get over it.


Agreed. But I bet he is still making safety mistakes in practice.

[Joemailman]

Does the selection of Burks mean Pettine decided before the draft that Jones is a poor fit for his defense?

[bobblehead]

Does the selection of Burks mean Pettine decided before the draft that Jones is a poor fit for his defense?

It means there was a guy they really liked in that spot that did the same thing as jones.