More Banjo: Week 9 @ New England

[pbmax]

Injuries really hampered the defense and the offense had maybe 3 or 4 good drives only 3 of which resulted in scores.

Martinez (returned-ankle), Whitehead (hothead), King (hammy), Bulaga all left the game.

Alexander did as well but I think he returned. Brice might have been banged up too.

Defense got its act straightened out but youth hurt them in the end. Offense was no help.

Offense was ineffective for a large swath of the game. Injuries to Bulaga did not help, but Spriggs held up better than Taylor in pass pro. Pass protection was shaky but even when he had time the old bugaboo of trying to win ISO routes against man coverage hurt the team though Scantron might help solve that problem next year.

The base plays of the McCarthy offense are no longer enough for this team to succeed. The much ballyhooed playbook redo (mostly by reporters eager for a scoop) has turned out to be mostly smoke screen. McCarthy has adjusted, noticeably, but when push comes to shove, its back to 3x1 formations, no motion, no bunches and no help beating man to man coverage.

Stupid plays put the nail in the coffin: Whitehead cost them a body they needed, the Tonyan penalty kept a drive alive and cost them time and a bit of field position. And the Jones fumble was a killer even if it was almost fun to see Lawrence "Just A" Guy make the play.

[pbmax]

Tom @Tomtheglassman
No slants, no crossing routes, and the runs with a lead blocker left at halftime. This offensive game plan sucks out loud. The defense brought what they had and MM and AR let them down again. @TundraVision @JerseyAlGBP @PackersTherapy @AaronNagler

Andy Herman @SconnieSports
The Packers in their last 10 games started by Aaron Rodgers: 3-6-1.
The Packers in 10 games with Brett Hundley: 3-7.

The Packers are a 1/2 game better with Rodgers.

Five of the last 7 wins with Rodgers, needed miraculous Rodgers' comebacks.

LATER CORRECTED HUNDLEY TO 3-6 and noted HUNDLEY PLAYED MAJORITY OF CLAVICLE INJURY GAME AT MINN

Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
RB Aaron Jones loses the first fumble of his career as the Packers are driving into scoring territory.

FIRST FUMBLE AT WORST TIME

Michael Cohen @Michael_Cohen13
The #Packers just had 12 men on the field after calling a timeout on the previous play. Goodness.

[pbmax]

Brice had a knee and doesn't look like he returned. Martinez did.

[mraynrand]

Brice had a knee and doesn't look like he returned. Martinez did.

Martinez was jogging at best. That was pure desperation.

[mraynrand]

Rodgers or Hundley, the cumulative analysis shows that the Packers don't have many good players.

[Freak Out]

Martinez was jogging at best. That was pure desperation.

I saw that and was shaking my head...just let him ice and sit...its done.

[call_me_ishmael]

Well, I thought there was a chance MM would save his job with a solid game plan and showing here. The game plan seemed pretty good but the team itself is either just unbelievably awful or tuning out coaching. What the H happened to Lane turnstyle Taylor? Dude has been awful. Rodgers was under way too much pressure from a bad D.

[pbmax]

This game was all the coaches strengths and weaknesses rolled into one.

One team suffered injuries to 2 of its top 5 personnel and still scored 31 points.

The other team had most everyone healthy and scored 17. They came out with a nice plans and the defense picked itself up after getting steamrolled on the first drive. But there were only two good offensive drives after the beginning and the second ended in a turnover. They can't overcome things like that anymore.

Too many leaks in the dinghy.

[channtheman]

Time for MM to go. His days of relying on Rodgers throwing to Driver, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, and Finley are officially over. Buh Bye. Do we salvage the season and fire him now or lose out and try again next year?


This team sucks. Bleh.

[Joemailman]

Time for MM to go. His days of relying on Rodgers throwing to Driver, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, and Finley are officially over. Buh Bye. Do we salvage the season and fire him now or lose out and try again next year?


This team sucks. Bleh.

What would firing him now accomplish? You think Philbin would turn this team around?

[Pugger]

This game was all the coaches strengths and weaknesses rolled into one.

One team suffered injuries to 2 of its top 5 personnel and still scored 31 points.

The other team had most everyone healthy and scored 17. They came out with a nice plans and the defense picked itself up after getting steamrolled on the first drive. But there were only two good offensive drives after the beginning and the second ended in a turnover. They can't overcome things like that anymore.

Too many leaks in the dinghy.

Not at RT or on defense as the game wore on.

[Pugger]

Time for MM to go. His days of relying on Rodgers throwing to Driver, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, and Finley are officially over. Buh Bye. Do we salvage the season and fire him now or lose out and try again next year?


This team sucks. Bleh.

I don't know if Stubby should go now but if he does, who takes his place? Philbin until Gute finds a replacement next offseason?

[pbmax]

Not at RT or on defense as the game wore on.

Meant on offense. Patriots were down a lineman too.

[pbmax]

What would firing him now accomplish? You think Philbin would turn this team around?

Head start on interviews and tampering.

[pbmax]

Scott Kacsmar @FO_ScottKacsmar

Green Bay's last 3 games with a failed 4QC/GWD:
2017 at Carolina - G.Allison fumble w/1:50 left
2018 at LA Rams - T.Montgomery fumble on KR w/1:56 left
2018 at New England - A.Jones fumble to start 4Q

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz @WesHod
JK Scott said he talked to Brian Gutekunst before the game. The team had a plane ready for him if he needed to get back home. His wife is due Nov. 14 but she will be induced this week #Packers

Aaron Jones 3️⃣ 3️⃣ @Showtyme_33
My Mistake I’ll Correct it Glad to be here (IMAGINE PRAYERFUL HANDS EMOJI HERE)

Ryan Hannable @RyanHannable
The Packers have now lost 12 straight games when not forcing a turnover, including the playoffs. The last time they won without forcing a turnover was the 2014 game against the Patriots.

[channtheman]

What would firing him now accomplish? You think Philbin would turn this team around?

Who cares? Sick of him.

[pbmax]

TRAMONTANA:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrN1EQqXgAA7kdA.jpg

[yetisnowman]

Defense did well enough to win even through the injuries. Too many wasted oppurtunities on the other side of the ball. Like last week we stymied great offenses for a significant chunk of the game and failed to capitalize. 5th in yards per game on offense, 14th in points per game. We can't expect this team to succeed with an average offense. It's just the sloppiness that kills me. Talent is one thing, but to me there is no excuse for such terrible rhythm.

[Rutnstrut]

If you can't see that this team is stagnant and poorly coached. You need to back away from the Kool-aid.

[mraynrand]

The other team had most everyone healthy and scored 17.

I guess, at the start. They also just pitched their starting safety and lost multiple defensive backs during the game. it got pretty weird there at the end.

[mraynrand]

If you can't see that this team is stagnant and poorly coached. You need to back away from the Kool-aid.

Weren't they playing the best defensive mind in the history of football?

[pbmax]

I guess, at the start. They also just pitched their starting safety and lost multiple defensive backs during the game. it got pretty weird there at the end.

Speaking strictly on offense. They lost Bulaga. Patriots were down a lineman at the start, which is a slight advantage in prep. Spriggs was not a tire fire.

The offense had the parts you wanted at the beginning of the season save the RT and I think he lasted most of a half. Rodgers was moving better than all season. Both backs available plus the receivers and Graham. Worst you can say about the rest of their health is that Cobb probably wasn't 100%.

I'll have to check the numbers, but this Pats D has struggled some this year and their pass rush has been mediocre. Playing at Foxboro is tough, but they have fought this before. Should have had more.

[Fosco33]

This thread is a little depressing but spot on.

ARod has masked a bad team. It’s very hard to win without turnovers and scoring above 21 pts/game.

Time to move on fully from ted/mike.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers or Hundley, the cumulative analysis shows that the Packers don't have many good players.

While I agree that the desperation drafts of all defense lately have left the cupboard bare on offense, as noted somewhere above, the gameplan blows. Watch a saints game with all the screens and slants. See the way headcoaches are utilizing RBs out of the backfield and realize the game has passed fat Mike by.

[bobblehead]

Anyone feel like looking back the last 3 games and seeing how many Aaron Jones series ended with scores vs. anyone else?

[bobblehead]

This thread is a little depressing but spot on.

ARod has masked a bad team. It’s very hard to win without turnovers and scoring above 21 pts/game.

Time to move on fully from ted/mike.

Not buying the ARod excuse anymore. He is missing open guys underneath too often. I pointed out the play where he split out Montgomery and then didn't throw to him wide open after 7 yards and ended up taking a sack. I have seen 3-4 times a game he missed a guy wide open underneath. How many times did Brady unload in 2.5 seconds or less in that graphic? ARod has to accept some blame for holding the ball too long too often.

[Pugger]

AR did admit he passed on throwing to an open Adams underneath. This tendency of his to not take what the defense is giving him is becoming a major problem IMO. If MM won't do anything about it then he has to go. We need a HC who will take charge and actually coach.

[call_me_ishmael]

Read somewhere that Packers were equally successful in last 10 games under Rodgers and the backup last year. That's crazy. Shows how bad this team is. I like Mike McCarthy and respect him a lot but it's time for a change. Andy Reid in Eagles type situation. He should be cheered and celebrated every time he comes back. He didn't do us wrong, and he doesn't deserve it, but it's just time.

[Joemailman]

Read somewhere that Packers were equally successful in last 10 games under Rodgers and the backup last year. That's crazy. Shows how bad this team is. I like Mike McCarthy and respect him a lot but it's time for a change. Andy Reid in Eagles type situation. He should be cheered and celebrated every time he comes back. He didn't do us wrong, and he doesn't deserve it, but it's just time.

It's true. It's slightly deceiving in that it includes the game where Rodgers got hurt in the 1st quarter. Still, going back to 2016, Packers are only 17-13-1 with Rodgers as starter. They've become mediocre, and only rise above mediocrity when Rodgers has one of those games where he is just unstoppable.
'

[Fritz]

This thread is a little depressing but spot on.

ARod has masked a bad team. It’s very hard to win without turnovers and scoring above 21 pts/game.

Time to move on fully from ted/mike.

In the past, I would get so angry because the Packers seemed to suffer way more injuries than other teams. However, this year they've been extraordinarily fortunate on the injury front - but their record is 3-4-1.

There's a talent problem, for one. Ted's last four or even five drafts produced some very good players, occasionally, but for the most part he whiffed. Looks like he whiffed on the entire 2015 draft. Looks like he whiffed on the second-rounder Spriggs. Whiffed on second-rounder Josh Jones. Whiffed on third-rounder Montravius Adams.

But now there seems to be a coaching problem. When the Packers ran the ball, they moved the ball - but, per usual, they got away from it and the offense stalled. Pettine is doing what he can, but he's got no one who can get to the passer, so it's all smoke and mirrors. He's mixing and matching and doing what he can, but this team ain't going anywhere based on defense. It would have to be the offense that carries this team, but the offense sputters and stalls more than my old 74 Vega.

Might as well hang on to MM for the moment. Start making "discreet inquiries" about the guys you're interested in at the end of the year. Does Gute even have a say, or is firing MM all on Murphy?

Speaking of Murphy, his record is starting to look smeared. He seems to have been not paying attention while Ted was slipping, and he's allowed WhineyMike a power structure that strips Gute of the authority he needs (in my opinion) to really turn this around. I think Murphy's been negligent.

So is he the guy who gets to/has to make the decision on MM, since Gute is not MM's boss? Is that how this wacky-ass thing is set up?

[Joemailman]

In the past, I would get so angry because the Packers seemed to suffer way more injuries than other teams. However, this year they've been extraordinarily fortunate on the injury front - but their record is 3-4-1.

There's a talent problem, for one. Ted's last four or even five drafts produced some very good players, occasionally, but for the most part he whiffed. Looks like he whiffed on the entire 2015 draft. Looks like he whiffed on the second-rounder Spriggs. Whiffed on second-rounder Josh Jones. Whiffed on third-rounder Montravius Adams.

But now there seems to be a coaching problem. When the Packers ran the ball, they moved the ball - but, per usual, they got away from it and the offense stalled. Pettine is doing what he can, but he's got no one who can get to the passer, so it's all smoke and mirrors. He's mixing and matching and doing what he can, but this team ain't going anywhere based on defense. It would have to be the offense that carries this team, but the offense sputters and stalls more than my old 74 Vega.

Might as well hang on to MM for the moment. Start making "discreet inquiries" about the guys you're interested in at the end of the year. Does Gute even have a say, or is firing MM all on Murphy?

Speaking of Murphy, his record is starting to look smeared. He seems to have been not paying attention while Ted was slipping, and he's allowed WhineyMike a power structure that strips Gute of the authority he needs (in my opinion) to really turn this around. I think Murphy's been negligent.

So is he the guy who gets to/has to make the decision on MM, since Gute is not MM's boss? Is that how this wacky-ass thing is set up?

I'm not so pessimistic about the power arrangement. Murphy has the final say on MM, but I don't think he will force MM on Gutey if Gutey has lost confidence in MM. I think they'll come to an agreement. Remember that Murphy only gave MM a 1 year extension. This is essentially a contract year for MM. He won't back next year as a lame-duck coach. He'll either get a longer extension or he'll be fired. So far he's done nothing to deserve an extension.

[call_me_ishmael]

I wonder what it would take to pry Shanahan Jr away from SF. Probably a pipe dream, but that dude can flat out coach.

[gbgary]

i don't think Rodgers is masking much. he's been as big a problem as anything else you can point to.

[Rutnstrut]

i don't think Rodgers is masking much. he's been as big a problem as anything else you can point to.

True, but he also has a coach that is undisciplined and not creative at all. AR needs a coach that will bring him fresh, new plays and will not be afraid to get in his face when he screws up. I think Rodgers is bored with the offense and has lost faith in it.

[texaspackerbacker]

I waded through 34 posts in this thread: panic, wrongheadedness sheeeesh!

Two weeks in a row now, we came damn close against arguably 2 of the 3 best teams in the league in road games. We shoulda won against the Rams, and if we hadn't gotten snake bit - AGAIN - with the Jones fumble, we woulda been in the drivers seat against the Patriots.

Should McCarthy get fired? Maybe. It's something to consider after the season, but I doubt it happens. I thought he called a better game than usual against New England - actually throwing it down the field a lot and mixing in runs with a good degree of success.

What a bunch of idiotic whiners in here regarding Aaron Rodgers. He clearly outplayed the other candidate for GOAT despite getting pressured horribly by the pass rush (at one point, the commentator said 46% of the time compared to just the one sack and nothing else close for Brady).

What is the real problem? Anybody in this forum knows in advance what I'm gonna say: personnel - our pathetic O Line was actually not as bad as usual, opening a few holes for RBs and once or twice actually giving Rodgers a decent pocket - the kind Brady gets virtually all the time. Just the same, the only way you could say our O Line did good would be extremely low expectations. THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POINT WAS THAT THE PATRIOTS GOT ALL THAT PRESSURE ON OUR QB WITH ONLY 4 PASS RUSHERS. The only way we ever got near Brady was with all out blitzes - which we SHOULD have done more often.

The patchwork D did a fairly decent job. Tramon was at least as good in coverage as Clinton-Dix and he stuck his nose in and made some nice tackles. Breeland was at least decent at Corner. The back up Safetys weren't horrible; Whitehead showed signs of being a quality player until the asshole ref kicked him out.

This is certainly not the time to panic and get stupid - as several people in this thread and the gameday thread seem to be doing.

[mraynrand]

While I agree that the desperation drafts of all defense lately have left the cupboard bare on offense, as noted somewhere above, the gameplan blows. Watch a saints game with all the screens and slants. See the way headcoaches are utilizing RBs out of the backfield and realize the game has passed fat Mike by.

I mostly agree, with more stress on the talent desert. I love how the Saints scheme so that Brees is just throwing super fast and on rhythm. Their whole offense is the Patriots' first drive.

[mraynrand]

This is certainly not the time to panic and get stupid - as several people in this thread and the gameday thread seem to be doing.

Nope. No need to panic. The result was exactly as I expected. But this team is what it is - about .500. They'll pick up more wins in the second half, and if some teams tank a little more than we expect, they might sneak into the payoffs. But the talent level is clearly second tier to about 5 teams.

[mraynrand]

Speaking strictly on offense. They lost Bulaga. Patriots were down a lineman at the start, which is a slight advantage in prep. Spriggs was not a tire fire.

The offense had the parts you wanted at the beginning of the season save the RT and I think he lasted most of a half. Rodgers was moving better than all season. Both backs available plus the receivers and Graham. Worst you can say about the rest of their health is that Cobb probably wasn't 100%.

I'll have to check the numbers, but this Pats D has struggled some this year and their pass rush has been mediocre. Playing at Foxboro is tough, but they have fought this before. Should have had more.

OK, on offense they are marginal at starting talent. Graham is missing one knee and he doesn't run all that well. I can only hope Cobb is hurt, but regardless, he's almost completely ineffective. They have some second-tier rookie talent, which would create real problems with good starters, but the Patsies were able to go and shut down exxon valdez and still blanket Adams. Rodgers won't throw to a covered Graham, and Cobb can't get open either. Even with extensive scheming, there's no guarantee these guys get free. Their only option is Rodgers putting the ball right into their hands. And that's If the blocking holds up, but WTH with Taylor crapping out when they are desperate? Oh well, it always looks the darkest after a road loss to 'Cheat.

[call_me_ishmael]

i don't think Rodgers is masking much. he's been as big a problem as anything else you can point to.

I agree with this.

[Joemailman]

OK, on offense they are marginal at starting talent. Graham is missing one knee and he doesn't run all that well. I can only hope Cobb is hurt, but regardless, he's almost completely ineffective. They have some second-tier rookie talent, which would create real problems with good starters, but the Patsies were able to go and shut down exxon valdez and still blanket Adams. Rodgers won't throw to a covered Graham, and Cobb can't get open either. Even with extensive scheming, there's no guarantee these guys get free. Their only option is Rodgers putting the ball right into their hands. And that's If the blocking holds up, but WTH with Taylor crapping out when they are desperate? Oh well, it always looks the darkest after a road loss to 'Cheat.

I don't think MVS is second-tier talent. He's on a pace for 700 yards receiving, which would be the most for a Packers rookie WR since Sterling Sharpe. But he is a rookie, so expecting him to be a consistent starter would be asking too much.
Packers could save about 5 million off the 2019 cap by cutting Graham at the end of the season. But they'd need to do it early because he's due a 5.3 Million roster bonus on the 3rd day of the 2019 league year. They'll have to decide if he's worth a 12.7 Million cap hit next year.

[PA Pack Fan]

Two weeks in a row now, we came damn close against arguably 2 of the 3 best teams in the league in road games. We shoulda won against the Rams, and if we hadn't gotten snake bit - AGAIN - with the Jones fumble, we woulda been in the drivers seat against the Patriots.

What a bunch of idiotic whiners in here regarding Aaron Rodgers. He clearly outplayed the other candidate for GOAT despite getting pressured horribly by the pass rush (at one point, the commentator said 46% of the time compared to just the one sack and nothing else close for Brady).

This is certainly not the time to panic and get stupid - as several people in this thread and the gameday thread seem to be doing.


1. Coming "damn close" to winning is still losing.

2. Aaron Rodgers outplayed Brady? What? did you even watch the game?? Check the stats before you post.

3. This is the time to panic, we are almost certainly not going to the playoffs. Have you looked at the NFC standings?

You are on a whole new level of stupid.

[Joemailman]

1. Coming "damn close" to winning is still losing.



Yep. Packers are finding ways to lose games. Mediocre teams do that. The last Packers coach to be fired, Mike Sherman, lost 6 games by 5 points or less in his last season.

[run pMc]

3-4-1, with losses to Pats and Rams is a little early to panic. The losses to the Lions and WAS are more vexing.
I think there's plenty of blame to share, but overall the defense played ok. Red zone and presnap execution on offense, combined with penalties and special teams gaffes have cost this team.

Special teams has probably cost them two games alone (DET, LAR). It wouldn't shock me if M3 keeps his job by throwing Zook under the bus.

As much as people hate on M3, I think he should finish the year as coach. I don't see any upside to having Philbin or Pettine take over at this point, and M3 has managed to find ways to galvanize the team and make late season pushes. The 4-6 R-E-L-A-X year, the 2010 everyone is injured SB run, etc. If he bombs out, I could see them firing him...but I'd give him the rest of the season.

Other thing: Gute is trying to restock a bare cupboard (as others have pointed out). I think the number of rookies and JAGs they're dealing with are going to cost them some close games like the NE game. (Full disclosure: I did not expect GB to beat NE on the road.) The first drive, and the trick plays, were examples of how to take advantage of young players by making them think/hesitate.

A few things stuck out to me:
(1) The stupid delay of game penalty followed by a surrender screen to Cobb. I didn't mind the WR screens on 2nd or 3rd and short, but why not take a shot at the end zone? If Jimmy Graham and the rookie WR's are such tall receivers, why aren't they throwing more fades/jump balls in the end zone? WTH M3/Philbin.
(2) The 3rd and 2 zone read keeper Rodgers ran and failed to convert. Had he actually handed Williams the ball that would've been an easy conversion.
(3) I thought Rodgers' accuracy was spotty, and it's showing in his completion % on the year. Going 24 of 43 is not a good game for Rodgers. There are throws he's missing, and open receivers he's not seeing. Is he so concerned about turning the ball over that he won't throw a receiver open? He used to do that. Is it the knee?
(4) They continue to give up on the run a little too soon, although some of those WR screens probably count as runs in their minds.

[Smidgeon]

Interestingly, I think there's a young, talented nucleus on each side of the ball. The offense has Adams, Linsley, Bakh MVS, Jones, EQ (projecting a little on him) to go with a Rodgers that hasn't run out of gas yet. The defense has Alexander, King, and Clark (and hopefully Jackson and Jones).

They need some help, but they got enough pieces that their record should be better than it is. M3 may be good at somethings, but scheming an offense wide open isn't it anymore. Reining Rodgers in isn't it anymore.

[texaspackerbacker]

Interestingly, I think there's a young, talented nucleus on each side of the ball. The offense has Adams, Linsley, Bakh MVS, Jones, EQ (projecting a little on him) to go with a Rodgers that hasn't run out of gas yet. The defense has Alexander, King, and Clark (and hopefully Jackson and Jones).



Well said. I'd add Martinez to that and maybe subtract Bakhtiari. Whitehead is beginning to look like a keeper too.

All of that plus a healthy Rodgers and what we can draft and sign in the off-season makes the future bright and the present not exactly hopeless also.

[pbmax]

I waded through 34 posts in this thread: panic, wrongheadedness sheeeesh!

Two weeks in a row now, we came damn close against arguably 2 of the 3 best teams in the league in road games. We shoulda won against the Rams, and if we hadn't gotten snake bit - AGAIN - with the Jones fumble, we woulda been in the drivers seat against the Patriots.

Should McCarthy get fired? Maybe. It's something to consider after the season, but I doubt it happens. I thought he called a better game than usual against New England - actually throwing it down the field a lot and mixing in runs with a good degree of success.

What a bunch of idiotic whiners in here regarding Aaron Rodgers. He clearly outplayed the other candidate for GOAT despite getting pressured horribly by the pass rush (at one point, the commentator said 46% of the time compared to just the one sack and nothing else close for Brady).

What is the real problem? Anybody in this forum knows in advance what I'm gonna say: personnel - our pathetic O Line was actually not as bad as usual, opening a few holes for RBs and once or twice actually giving Rodgers a decent pocket - the kind Brady gets virtually all the time. Just the same, the only way you could say our O Line did good would be extremely low expectations. THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POINT WAS THAT THE PATRIOTS GOT ALL THAT PRESSURE ON OUR QB WITH ONLY 4 PASS RUSHERS. The only way we ever got near Brady was with all out blitzes - which we SHOULD have done more often.

The patchwork D did a fairly decent job. Tramon was at least as good in coverage as Clinton-Dix and he stuck his nose in and made some nice tackles. Breeland was at least decent at Corner. The back up Safetys weren't horrible; Whitehead showed signs of being a quality player until the asshole ref kicked him out.

This is certainly not the time to panic and get stupid - as several people in this thread and the gameday thread seem to be doing.

How can you describe losing by 14 points as close? I much prefer being optimistic and still am about the rest of this season, but they were flat outclassed last night.

The Defense held on as long as it could but the Offense couldn't deliver once it went off the script. This story goes back to 2011 KC game. Or teh playoff loss to the 49ers at Home in the Wild Card game.

The scheme sucks, regardless of the uptick during the no huddle of 2014.

[pbmax]

OK, on offense they are marginal at starting talent. Graham is missing one knee and he doesn't run all that well. I can only hope Cobb is hurt, but regardless, he's almost completely ineffective. They have some second-tier rookie talent, which would create real problems with good starters, but the Patsies were able to go and shut down exxon valdez and still blanket Adams. Rodgers won't throw to a covered Graham, and Cobb can't get open either. Even with extensive scheming, there's no guarantee these guys get free. Their only option is Rodgers putting the ball right into their hands. And that's If the blocking holds up, but WTH with Taylor crapping out when they are desperate? Oh well, it always looks the darkest after a road loss to 'Cheat.

Teams with worse talent get them open short and immediately with scheme (see New England prior to Gordon signing and Edelman returning). Look at any of the slants that Adams and Allison ran earlier this year out of a stack when they were afraid of Rodgers going down.

The Packers offense is definitely short on talent compared to its past units, but the problem isn't talent dependent. Its the 1 on 1 isolation routes 3x1 formation the has been snuffed out. Everyone knows it but the coach. Manning ran all the same stuff for years, but it was constantly tweaked and he controlled the offense. McCarthy runs out of new ideas as soon as he finishes the script. They it looks like the same old offense.

If the receivers are top line AND the O line can hold blocks for 5 seconds, it works. But unless you are Ted 1.0, that doesn't happen all that often.

Rodgers isn't playing well (how can he not know how to throw a screen pass by year 11?) but why does the team make it hard on him when other teams make it easy on young QBs?

[pbmax]

Its not time to panic. The cupboard isn't bare, but its not exactly well stocked like it used to be. Poor drafts, poor decisions on who to retain, big contracts and age will do that to a team.

They need a coach on offense who can create a functional offense without dominant matchups at QB, WR and the O line.

Its that simple. M4 is doing more with less right now on defense. McCarthy has been doing less with more since 2014.

[Rutnstrut]

So it's largely agreed here, stubby is most of the problem?

[pbmax]

So it's largely agreed here, stubby is most of the problem?

His base offense is the source of the problem. But on Game Day, its about 50/50.

But I think Rodgers will perform better in someone else's offense. M3 has had two shots at redesigning this thing since 2010 and only one of those rebuilds (no huddle) took for any appreciable amount of time.

Its worth noting that rebuild won an MVP award. But it doesn't work with a rebuilding team.

[Joemailman]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/11/05/studs-and-duds-from-packers-loss-to-patriots-in-week-9/


OLB Nick Perry

Either Perry has a limiting ankle injury or he’s regressed to replacement-level as an edge rusher. For much of the season, Perry has been a non-factor, especially as a rusher. Nothing changed Sunday night. He has no explosiveness around the corner and rarely powers a left tackle into the pocket. He doesn’t affect the quarterback and the Patriots ran at him without fear Sunday night. Kyler Fackrell has probably been the better player this season.

Holy...

[Rutnstrut]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/11/05/studs-and-duds-from-packers-loss-to-patriots-in-week-9/



Holy...





Better put perry on suicide watch.

[texaspackerbacker]

How can you describe losing by 14 points as close? I much prefer being optimistic and still am about the rest of this season, but they were flat outclassed last night.

The Defense held on as long as it could but the Offense couldn't deliver once it went off the script. This story goes back to 2011 KC game. Or teh playoff loss to the 49ers at Home in the Wild Card game.

The scheme sucks, regardless of the uptick during the no huddle of 2014.

It's safe to say if we had taken it in for a TD when Jones fumbled, we would have been a strong bet to win. Without that drive extending bad call on roughing the punter, we would have been in much better position to win. They kinda gave up and didn't finish strong, but I certainly wouldn't say "flat outclassed". They lost to one of the top teams at their place in a game they arguably coulda and shoulda won - after doing the same against an even better team the week before.

Assuming you mean the offensive scheme, I liked what I saw in the Patriots game more than anytime recently, maybe because Rodgers was healthier - more throwing the ball down the field and taking advantage of Rodgers' mobility - the exact thing some people stupidly criticize.

The Packers screwed up badly against Detroit and Washington, but they should be 6-2 right now. There are a few tough games on the schedule ahead too, but there is still a strong chance of winning the division and being the team nobody wants to face in the postseason.

[red]

His base offense is the source of the problem. But on Game Day, its about 50/50.

But I think Rodgers will perform better in someone else's offense. M3 has had two shots at redesigning this thing since 2010 and only one of those rebuilds (no huddle) took for any appreciable amount of time.

Its worth noting that rebuild won an MVP award. But it doesn't work with a rebuilding team.

i think we can now safely say that fat mikes line about once again revamping the offense was once again a complete line of bullshit. the offence hasn't changed at all in a few years

someone needs to hold him accountable for saying he'll fix it every offseason, then doing nothing about it

[Bossman641]

The worst thing I can say about the offense is they make everything look so difficult. You never see guys schemed open.

[call_me_ishmael]

This whole notion that players aren't schemed open is sort of dispelled by the beat writers love of video on Twitter. They show a lot of examples of players being schemed open with picks, etc. Nagler and Kruse are the two best about showing this sort of thing.

[Bossman641]

This whole notion that players aren't schemed open is sort of dispelled by the beat writers love of video on Twitter. They show a lot of examples of players being schemed open with picks, etc. Nagler and Kruse are the two best about showing this sort of thing.

Occasionally, yes. But compare them to other teams and it's night and day.

[red]

This whole notion that players aren't schemed open is sort of dispelled by the beat writers love of video on Twitter. They show a lot of examples of players being schemed open with picks, etc. Nagler and Kruse are the two best about showing this sort of thing.

So they show the 2 or 3 times we use it every game?

[Pugger]

So it's largely agreed here, stubby is most of the problem?

He is part of the problem. The main problem seems to be the wasted drafts the past 3 years with TT and his refusal to dip into FA to bolster the roster after his draft failings.

[call_me_ishmael]

Occasionally, yes. But compare them to other teams and it's night and day.

Do you have evidence of this claim? I would agree the Packers don't run a college style offense like the Chiefs do with jet sweeps, read option, etc. I would like to see them do so but I am not sure of the right coach to implement it. Thinking Tom Herman or ol' Urb (despite my utter disdain for him as a person).

[pbmax]

Occasionally, yes. But compare them to other teams and it's night and day.

McCarthy has used it some this year. The slants out of a bunch, etc. but he doesn’t stick with it.

Watch after the first scripted 15 plays. No more schemed open.

Pay special attention to Rodgers comebacks this year. It’s all 3x1 spread with no bunch and very little motion.

There is no doubt Rodgers ignores the short open routes too much. But McCarthys base offense, the one they revert to after the weekly game plan is spent, is still woefully short of good concepts for winning versus man coverage.

[pbmax]

It's safe to say if we had taken it in for a TD when Jones fumbled, we would have been a strong bet to win. Without that drive extending bad call on roughing the punter, we would have been in much better position to win. They kinda gave up and didn't finish strong, but I certainly wouldn't say "flat outclassed". They lost to one of the top teams at their place in a game they arguably coulda and shoulda won - after doing the same against an even better team the week before

Snip...

The Packers screwed up badly against Detroit and Washington, but they should be 6-2 right now. There are a few tough games on the schedule ahead too, but there is still a strong chance of winning the division and being the team nobody wants to face in the postseason.

What evidence is there that if Jones doesn’t fumble that they score? Not even close to certain given how the offense has run this year.

This team has made key mistakes in each game this year, especially with turnovers. Jones miscue was almost predictable.

When push has come to shove this year Packers have flinched too often. They are the very essence of a mediocre, 500 club.

[pbmax]

Slants aren’t the only thing happening this year. Partial mentioned pick plays which are nice. They also are running mesh and crossing routes. But when push comes to shove in tight games it’s the same old offense.

M3 is still trying to get a lead then cruise with the base offense after the open. It ain’t working well enough.

[texaspackerbacker]

What evidence is there that if Jones doesn’t fumble that they score? Not even close to certain given how the offense has run this year.

This team has made key mistakes in each game this year, especially with turnovers. Jones miscue was almost predictable.

When push has come to shove this year Packers have flinched too often. They are the very essence of a mediocre, 500 club.

On the 23 yard line and driving? Would you bet against them scoring there? It's the essence of a snake bit team. Losing that close and that way on the road to two of the best teams in the league is not a sign of mediocrity - although several key position groups indeed are very mediocre. When you have a healthy Aaron Rodgers, you're never a strong bet to lose to anybody.

[denverYooper]

When push has come to shove this year Packers have flinched too often. They are the very essence of a mediocre, 500 club.

QFT

[Fritz]

On the 23 yard line and driving? Would you bet against them scoring there? It's the essence of a snake bit team. Losing that close and that way on the road to two of the best teams in the league is not a sign of mediocrity - although several key position groups indeed are very mediocre. When you have a healthy Aaron Rodgers, you're never a strong bet to lose to anybody.

Snake bit? Snake bit is having player after player at key positions get injured. That was the Packers in several of the past years, but this year, they've been pretty healthy.

No, this ain't snakebit. This is mediocrity.

[mraynrand]

Snake bit? Snake bit is having player after player at key positions get injured. That was the Packers in several of the past years, but this year, they've been pretty healthy.

No, this ain't snakebit. This is mediocrity.

Yes, they've lost depth everywhere, and the draft failures at DB and O-line in recent years have forced them to use precious picks to recover. They only have about 5 blue players (Adams, Clark, Daniels, Bacteria, Rodgers) and a lot of fair role-player starters. To win this year, they need everyone healthy and rookies J'xander, Jackson, Burks, Exxon Valdez Scantron,and EQ, to play like seasoned starters.

[pbmax]

Yes, they've lost depth everywhere, and the draft failures at DB and O-line in recent years have forced them to use precious picks to recover. They only have about 5 blue players (Adams, Clark, Daniels, Bacteria, Rodgers) and a lot of fair role-player starters. To win this year, they need everyone healthy and rookies J'xander, Jackson, Burks, Exxon Valdez Scantron,and EQ, to play like seasoned starters.

Blue players? Are you channeling Cleft?

[pbmax]

On the 23 yard line and driving? Would you bet against them scoring there? It's the essence of a snake bit team. Losing that close and that way on the road to two of the best teams in the league is not a sign of mediocrity - although several key position groups indeed are very mediocre. When you have a healthy Aaron Rodgers, you're never a strong bet to lose to anybody.

They are 53% to score a TD in the red zone. 20th in the League with a very good back, one great WR and a TE with a monster physical advantage. Oh, and the QB isn't too shabby.

Play started at the 34. Jones gained 6 to the 28 then fumbled to the 24. So yes, I would have bet against at TD at the 28 yard line.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

[texaspackerbacker]

Snake bit? Snake bit is having player after player at key positions get injured. That was the Packers in several of the past years, but this year, they've been pretty healthy.

No, this ain't snakebit. This is mediocrity.

Snakebit is being the victim of bad calls at critical times; Snakebit is having a long term reliable kicker suddenly turn to shit for one game - then immediately getting back to normal; Snakebit is having your best player hurt in game one and arguably reduced in effectiveness for the next 6 or so; Snakebit is a bonehead play compounded by a fumble cost you a game against probably the NFL best team at their place; Snakebit is having the first fumble of a RB's career as well as a bogus PF roughing the punter penalty cost you the game on the road against probably the second or third best NFL team ....... did I leave out anything?

It's a helluva lot more a sign of bad luck than mediocrity, although (as I've said probably more than anybody else) at certain position groups, the Packers certainly do have mediocre personnel.

[Rutnstrut]

Snakebit is being the victim of bad calls at critical times; Snakebit is having a long term reliable kicker suddenly turn to shit for one game - then immediately getting back to normal; Snakebit is having your best player hurt in game one and arguably reduced in effectiveness for the next 6 or so; Snakebit is a bonehead play compounded by a fumble cost you a game against probably the NFL best team at their place; Snakebit is having the first fumble of a RB's career as well as a bogus PF roughing the punter penalty cost you the game on the road against probably the second or third best NFL team ....... did I leave out anything?

It's a helluva lot more a sign of bad luck than mediocrity, although (as I've said probably more than anybody else) at certain position groups, the Packers certainly do have mediocre personnel.



Those are merely bumps in the road that a good team/coaching staff could roll right over.

[smuggler]

Actually, no level of talent or coaching could overcome the mistake in the Rams game, if we're being honest.

[Fosco33]

The jones drive when ‘Arod was hot’ was the definition of stupid to me. He made two very difficult and low likelihood throws and MVS made two great receptions. The odds of that happening consistently has been the major issue in this offense. We make the game too fricken difficult to consistently be successful.