More Banjo: Week 10 @ Seattle

[pbmax]

Started off on fire wth turnover and TD. 14-3 lead was it?

Running game going well.

But that script ran out and the old base offense reared its head and was pathetic.

They were 0 for 997 on third down.

Defense held together for a while but got no support. I would not be surprised if it was 2:1 Seattle plays to GB.

Just horrible offensive game. Brutal. QB isn't helping and the coach is apparently helpless.

Fire him now and start the search.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1063285998103265282

John Schneider effect. I like Gooter but they should have ponied up and made the known commodity happen.

[channtheman]

We don't get our playmakers involved enough. Jones was on fire in the first half. Maybe one pass to him in the 2nd half that I remember, and that was a late throw after he no longer had open space. Rodgers refuses to throw the ball to him. MM refuses to make Rodgers do anything. Does MM even get it? This team has the talent, it no longer has the coaching.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Fuckety fuck fuck mcfucking fuckenheimer fuckstain!

[pbmax]

Clark was hurt but came back in.

Graham hurt his hand (thumb). Daniels hurt his foot or ankle. Breeland left the game and did not return as did Raven Green.

[ThunderDan]

Fuck the refs! I mean seriously. Fuck this shit!

Cost us 10 point at least. Seattle gave us 7 with the early fumble

O was shit in the 2nd half. Third down is horrible. Get the first.

[pbmax]

Fackrell is seriously developing, but the Seahawks O line is not the Cowboys of yore. Will be good to see him do it against top competition. But nice to see him turn it loose.

[pbmax]

Inactive list:

QB 8 T.Boyle, WR 18 R.Cobb, CB 20 K.King, S 29 K.Brice, LB 53 N.Perry, G 62 L.Patrick, T/G 70 A.Light

[mraynrand]

Good thing stubby saved that TO on the challenge

[Fosco33]

The packers had three first downs in the second half. The seahawks had nine in the fourth quarter.

[mraynrand]

halftime: Stubby was 'very pleased' with the offense according to the sideline reporter. So you know he was all content to ride it out.

[pbmax]

Packers 1-4 on third down? Sounds like too few attempts.

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/57715/SEA_Gamebook.pdf

Jones had 11 rushes for 40 yards plus 6 targets for 5 catches, 63 yards and a TD.

[pbmax]

Good thing stubby saved that TO on the challenge

Barn door will be closed tonight with the season running around Seattle looking for Freak Out.

[pbmax]

I would ignore the numbers I have been posting. The game book numbers seem to be the first half only.

[mraynrand]

Barn door will be closed tonight with the season running around Seattle looking for Freak Out.

Your extended lugubrious metaphors flood me with ennui

https://ibhuluimcom-a.akamaihd.net/ib.huluim.com/video/40035583?region=US&size=600x400

[Bossman641]

Packers 1-4 on third down? Sounds like too few attempts.

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/57715/SEA_Gamebook.pdf

Jones had 11 rushes for 40 yards plus 6 targets for 5 catches, 63 yards and a TD.

3/11 on third down

[call_me_ishmael]

Not a banjo thing, but boy, I am asking myself what ARod has done the past 2 years to deserve the extension he got. If this is all they get from him from here on out, and he has been merely above average, not godlike, since 2015 onwards, then I think they will regret that contract*. I was 100% on board with play it out then wait and see. He's had a lot of season ending-ish injuries, what, 3 now?

* Probably not, but still, whole lotta money above the next guy for less production.

[pbmax]

Not a banjo thing, but boy, I am asking myself what ARod has done the past 2 years to deserve the extension he got. If this is all they get from him from here on out, and he has been merely above average, not godlike, since 2015 onwards, then I think they will regret that contract*. I was 100% on board with play it out then wait and see. He's had a lot of season ending-ish injuries, what, 3 now?

* Probably not, but still, whole lotta money above the next guy for less production.

Just ask yourself this:

1. Re-sign and pay Mike McCarthy and DeShone Kizer?
2. Or re-sign and pay Aaron Rodgers and some new coach with an actual offense.

[call_me_ishmael]

Or C, play out the next two years of his contract, and then see what happens. Hell, even one year gives you more info. If he's playing great, then keep rolling on franchise deal like Kirk Cousins. ARod would probably be fine with the franchise deal at that point. Sure, he might be mad short term pre-franchise but as I mentioned numerous times, he can't throw a fit or holdout or anything like that and risk ruining his reputation and lose the endorsement money.

[pbmax]

Or C, play out the next two years of his contract, and then see what happens. Hell, even one year gives you more info. If he's playing great, then keep rolling on franchise deal like Kirk Cousins. ARod would probably be fine with the franchise deal at that point. Sure, he might be mad short term pre-franchise but as I mentioned numerous times, he can't throw a fit or holdout or anything like that and risk ruining his reputation and lose the endorsement money.

There is a large incentive to not come to camp for either of the last two years in that case. So you have to book the money on the cap AND find someone else to play the position. Worst of both worlds.

Steelers can find a suitable replacement for Bell, Packers can't for Rodgers that easily.

[pbmax]

As I said earlier, two passes that half went to Jones for 1 yard each. But this seems a little more open.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsGPgnQW0AEuufc.jpg:large

[mraynrand]

There is a large incentive to not come to camp for either of the last two years in that case. So you have to book the money on the cap AND find someone else to play the position. Worst of both worlds.

Steelers can find a suitable replacement for Bell, Packers can't for Rodgers that easily.

Solution: draft his replacement in 2019. Do it now before you're desperate.

[call_me_ishmael]

There is a large incentive to not come to camp for either of the last two years in that case. So you have to book the money on the cap AND find someone else to play the position. Worst of both worlds.

Steelers can find a suitable replacement for Bell, Packers can't for Rodgers that easily.

Bell isn't a national spokesmen, though. Bell doesn't risk the advertising dollars that Rodgers does by becoming a not-so-popular-or-well-liked player by holding out, etc.

[Joemailman]

As I said earlier, two passes that half went to Jones for 1 yard each. But this seems a little more open.




Actually, one of of those 1 yard passes, I thought it would have been more if Rodgers had thrown it to him sooner. By the time Jones got the ball. a defender was right on him.

[mraynrand]

As I said earlier, two passes that half went to Jones for 1 yard each. But this seems a little more open.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsGPgnQW0AEuufc.jpg:large

This image makes me sad

Baby I refuse, I do refuse to check it down


https://youtu.be/GBUPjR9MKrU

[call_me_ishmael]

Steelers can find a suitable replacement for Bell, Packers can't for Rodgers that easily.

This is the most trollish comment I will ever make and I am mostly kidding, but here it goes:

Are you so sure about that? The recent records with Rodgers and Hundley are awfully similar.

/troll

Okay, so in all reality, I do wonder if he isn't slipping a bit. He's had two bad wings now, and a blown ACL. The guys that seem to last until 40, which until recently is super rare, have never really had injury problems like that. Brees had the Labrum thing for a year, and Brady tore the ACL once, and Manning only had the neck thing and was a shell of himself after it. 3 vs 1 in the major injury department scares me a bit and makes me think maybe Rodgers isn't cut from the same cloth of durability.

He's middle of the road (16th) in passer rating when factoring in people who have thrown the ball a lot.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&season=2018&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&qualified=true

[mraynrand]

Bell isn't a national spokesmen, though. Bell doesn't risk the advertising dollars that Rodgers does by becoming a not-so-popular-or-well-liked player by holding out, etc.

Just go dark.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.FXnzzV9rN0xsPx_0YvRP0QHaEo&pid=Api


Or come out of the closet and be celebrated. Rodgers has nothing to worry about regardless

[pbmax]

Solution: draft his replacement in 2019. Do it now before you're desperate.

Of course. But you have to find Rodgers again in the 20s and be ready to rebuild a bit. Packers weren't brave about Favre's status until Rodgers had been around for 2 years.

I think part of what made Favre sulk and melted his brain in those last 3 year, where suddenly cold and wind mattered, was the knowledge that Rodgers was going to take over eventually and there was nothing he could do to prevent it. Screwed with his head just like contract matters for Finley and Dix did with their noggins.

[pbmax]

Actually, one of of those 1 yard passes, I thought it would have been more if Rodgers had thrown it to him sooner. By the time Jones got the ball. a defender was right on him.

Yep, He double clutched to try and get some space and it didn't work. A quick throw and Jones has one guy to beat. The late throw put two guys in his way.

[pbmax]

Bell isn't a national spokesmen, though. Bell doesn't risk the advertising dollars that Rodgers does by becoming a not-so-popular-or-well-liked player by holding out, etc.

But now you are hanging the fate of your franchise on the player not wanting to tarnish his reputation. That is a thin reed.

Contract matters have messed with a lot of players' heads before.

[mraynrand]

Of course. But you have to find Rodgers again in the 20s and be ready to rebuild a bit. Packers weren't brave about Favre's status until Rodgers had been around for 2 years.

I think part of what made Favre sulk and melted his brain in those last 3 year, where suddenly cold and wind mattered, was the knowledge that Rodgers was going to take over eventually and there was nothing he could do to prevent it. Screwed with his head just like contract matters for Finley and Dix did with their noggins.

eventually I will achieve maximum entropy and there's nothing I can do about it. Tough shit for Rodgers. Time to plan for the future. Especially if he won't check the fuck down!

[mraynrand]

But now you are hanging the fate of your franchise on the player not wanting to tarnish his reputation. That is a thin reed.

Contract matters have messed with a lot of players' heads before.

get some compromising pictures and bring in vinny with a nail gun and blow torch. You need to think creatively.

[pbmax]

eventually I will achieve maximum entropy and there's nothing I can do about it. Tough shit for Rodgers. Time to plan for the future. Especially if he won't check the fuck down!

Its something they have to consider. He has not looked lights out for quite a while now.

He isn't even doing touchdown to check down well right now. Both of his long TD passes were underthrown.

[mraynrand]

Its something they have to consider. He has not looked lights out for quite a while now.

He isn't even doing touchdown to check down well right now. Both of his long TD passes were underthrown.

did you watch his mechanics? Just awful and I think he can't get away with nearly as much of that anymore.

[mraynrand]

https://youtu.be/lRcZ9OFTG48

[pbmax]

Completely forgot to mention the continued abuse of TOs so that he cannot challenge the incomplete ball inside his own 20.

THAT was special.

It took them forever to come up with an angle, but had he called a TO to get the challenge, it would have given everyone more time.

[bobblehead]

Fuck the refs! I mean seriously. Fuck this shit!

Cost us 10 point at least. Seattle gave us 7 with the early fumble

O was shit in the 2nd half. Third down is horrible. Get the first.

Agree. Refs are punishing us for bitching about the bad roughing calls on clay. We won't get a call this season. Even on Davante's bomb the Dback pinned his left arm down....he made the catch anyway, but no flag. In our own redzone clay gave a ponyback ride to a defender with no flag. Would have killed a TD drive if I recall. Officials definitely hosing us this year.

[pbmax]

Chris Wesseling: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000988625/article/russell-wilson-seahawks-grind-out-win-over-packers?campaign=Twitter_atn

I love a good wassailing.

Asked after the game if anybody in Green Bay's booth wanted to challenge Lockett's catch, McCarthy responded, "My understanding is they did not."

[pbmax]

From same Chris:


3. Aaron Rodgers isn't free from blame. While situational football has been a problem throughout the season, it was a back-breaker at CenturyLink Field, Rodgers' personal house of horrors going back to the infamous "Fail Mary," the blowout loss in the 2014 NFL Kickoff opener and the ignominious collapse in the 2014 NFC Championship Game. Rodgers' extraordinary arm talent was on full display, mixing gorgeous rainbows with off-platform wrist flicks 50 yards downfield to Robert Tonyan and Davante Adams.

Pro quarterbacks are ultimately judged, however, by their performance on third downs, in the red zone and in late-game situations. Rodgers came up short on that note, displaying a maddening penchant for holding the ball until he fell prey to drive-killing sacks. How much of that is a natural byproduct of McCarthy's stale offense versus Rodgers' cocksure, improvisational playing style is a long-running conundrum for Packers Twitter to spend hours, weeks and months dissecting. If the riddle doesn't get solved soon, McCarthy will find himself on the hot seat down the stretch.

"The frustration is in the execution," Rodgers said. "The execution just hasn't been great, especially in the situational offense. When you compare it to years past, we've always been good on third down and in the red zone, and we're just not this year. I think that's the combination of a lot of things, but that's the biggest frustration."

[mraynrand]

...if anybody in Green Bay's booth wanted to challenge Lockett's catch...

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.lmMA7N8NRYuoK80GJ9UZ1AHaFc&pid=Api

[bobblehead]

Actually, one of of those 1 yard passes, I thought it would have been more if Rodgers had thrown it to him sooner. By the time Jones got the ball. a defender was right on him.

I know exactly what play you refer to. I was screaming at the TV because rodgers looked at him...looked away deep, then came back to him after the defender closed. Might even be the play pictured above.

[mraynrand]

Full duration - for the whole team*








*except Fackrell
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OGC.66282c4d998c402196dddfea0b18769a&pid=1.7&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia.giphy.com%2fmedia%2fA1etP Wqtba6je%2fgiphy.gif&ehk=kIEAZ8MLNt%2bXOFFJ3Hidpg

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Just go dark.

Or come out of the closet and be celebrated. Rodgers has nothing to worry about regardless

Aaron is Trapped in the Closet, Chapter 1 is ready to be posted. Just waiting for Madtown to give assurance that he aint gonna move it to the Garbage Can.

[smuggler]

*except Fackrell
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OGC.66282c4d998c402196dddfea0b18769a&pid=1.7&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia.giphy.com%2fmedia%2fA1etP Wqtba6je%2fgiphy.gif&ehk=kIEAZ8MLNt%2bXOFFJ3Hidpg

Really? Because, with the game on the line, the Seahawks decided that running against Fackrell was an easy way to ice the game. Couldn't set the edge and ALSO bit on the play fake and gave Russell Wilson a cakewalk for a first down.

[mraynrand]

Really? Because, with the game on the line, the Seahawks decided that running against Fackrell was an easy way to ice the game. Couldn't set the edge and ALSO bit on the play fake and gave Russell Wilson a cakewalk for a first down.

Give the guy a little. Has to work next to creepy scarred Sulu. Had the best game of his career. He just mucked up a play or two. Put him in the agony booth for half-duration.

[ThunderDan]

Completely forgot to mention the continued abuse of TOs so that he cannot challenge the incomplete ball inside his own 20.

THAT was special.

It took them forever to come up with an angle, but had he called a TO to get the challenge, it would have given everyone more time.

I was sure he was going to challenge. Clark got hurt on the play and had to be helped off. They should been able to get the needed angle in time. Makes you wonder what Seattle gives as a feed for replays.

[ThunderDan]

Missed FG by Crosby looms large. Still think Sea could have easily scored if needed on that last drive.

[ThunderDan]

Still want to know about the face masking call against us. The defender didn't grab the mask or helmet. His hand went across the player's face shield (not sure what to call the clear pieces of plastic they put in to not get poked in the eyes) and turned his head. But it wasn't a grab or tug.

[denverYooper]

I hate this team.

[pbmax]

Really? Because, with the game on the line, the Seahawks decided that running against Fackrell was an easy way to ice the game. Couldn't set the edge and ALSO bit on the play fake and gave Russell Wilson a cakewalk for a first down.

Fackrell isn't the only OLB who has been caught crashing inside. Teams have been taking advantage of that technique all year.

[pbmax]

I hate this team.

It is like rooting for another, worse franchise.

[denverYooper]

It is like rooting for another, worse franchise.

It's like in years past when we could count on the 3rd down defense to fail. They have fixed that but now I just count on the team as a whole to suffer a critical meltdown.

[mraynrand]

It's like in years past when we could count on the 3rd down defense to fail. They have fixed that but now I just count on the team as a whole to suffer a critical meltdown.

Sure but that’s what happens when you have a marginal roster. Especially the depleted one that was out there at the end on defense.

BTW My vision was too blurred with frustrated rage and alcohol to see that play in question but I bet Fackrell was carrying out his assignment and someone had responsibility for outside contain. But if it’s Fackrells fault then...agony booth

[Fosco33]

Watch today’s presser with m3 on Facebook w/ people’s comments. At least that’s entertaining

[red]

Watch today’s presser with m3 on Facebook w/ people’s comments. At least that’s entertaining

did he talk about how he's a "really good coach" again?

[Joemailman]

Now sure if anyone has mentioned this. Tonyan catches 54 yard TD pass, and is on the field for a total of 3 offensive snaps for the night. Even with Graham getting hurt.

[Freak Out]

I don't have a big problem with shitty SEA fans in my face after the game...but when I'm with my young grandson I got problems. My cousin damn near clocked some guy...and he is a Chicken fan himself....fucking knuckle dragging buffoons. You knew the Crosby miss would be a killer..but I tell you EVERYONE in that stadium knew the game was over after that last punt.

[George Cumby]

I hate this team.

It was very hard to watch.

Granted, we are spoiled. But FML, the D was clearly incapable of stopping their O. Go the fuck for it on 4th and two.

[pbmax]

I don't have a big problem with shitty SEA fans in my face after the game...but when I'm with my young grandson I got problems. My cousin damn near clocked some guy...and he is a Chicken fan himself....fucking knuckle dragging buffoons. You knew the Crosby miss would be a killer..but I tell you EVERYONE in that stadium knew the game was over after that last punt.

Its bad when the opposing fans would coach your team better by reflex.

Sorry you got grief. Kids shouldn't get that crap.

[pbmax]

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/57715/SEA_Gamebook.pdf

Finally up to date. 3 of 11 on 3rd down. 14 total first downs, 11 passing 3 running. 48 yards running on 13 carries. 48 offensive plays to 69 for Seattle. Half a game by the offense basically.

[pbmax]

New candidate for dumbest take:

Joe Banner @JoeBanner13
No one seems to remember the worst thing McCarthy did in my opinion. Rodgers was 16-19 and Packers had gained 250 yards in the first half, and scored 21 points. When sideline reporter asked him what they needed to do better in the second half he said “run more”. How did that go?


Did he watch the second half or is he saying they SHOULD have run more?

[red]

New candidate for dumbest take:

Joe Banner @JoeBanner13
No one seems to remember the worst thing McCarthy did in my opinion. Rodgers was 16-19 and Packers had gained 250 yards in the first half, and scored 21 points. When sideline reporter asked him what they needed to do better in the second half he said “run more”. How did that go?


Did he watch the second half or is he saying they SHOULD have run more?

Though to really understand just what he’s saying there

I think, he’s saying we should have kept passing and not run in the second half

So no, it doesn’t look like he watched the second half, because that is exactly what we did and it’s what killed us

[Fritz]

As I said earlier, two passes that half went to Jones for 1 yard each. But this seems a little more open.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsGPgnQW0AEuufc.jpg:large



That picture is driving me crazy. That's at least a first down, possibly a touch down.

And you are right, even on the two long TD passes, he throws short. Better than too long, but still not his old touch.

Man, the defense is not great, by any means, but it's better than it has been the last couple years. If MM
and Rodgers could get this offense straight (and now they even have a good, really good, running back!), they'd be at least 6-3-1 by now.

I sense though that the whole thing is gone stale, and it's time for a change of coaches. Ted's gone, and if Fackrell and Josh Jones pan out (they are both playing much better lately), then we'll have to retract the "it's all TT's fault" narrative, and make room for McCarthy to get some of the blame for not being able to score points, even with a solid offensive line (despite what Tex says).

[mraynrand]

It's like in years past when we could count on the 3rd down defense to fail.


It's like we now count on the 3rd down offense to fail.

[pbmax]

That picture is driving me crazy. That's at least a first down, possibly a touch down.

And you are right, even on the two long TD passes, he throws short. Better than too long, but still not his old touch.

Man, the defense is not great, by any means, but it's better than it has been the last couple years. If MM
and Rodgers could get this offense straight (and now they even have a good, really good, running back!), they'd be at least 6-3-1 by now.

I sense though that the whole thing is gone stale, and it's time for a change of coaches. Ted's gone, and if Fackrell and Josh Jones pan out (they are both playing much better lately), then we'll have to retract the "it's all TT's fault" narrative, and make room for McCarthy to get some of the blame for not being able to score points, even with a solid offensive line (despite what Tex says).

What kills me is not that Rodgers missed this on any one play or game.

Its that the most explosive guy on offense, except perhaps Adams, is allowed free reign for 5 yards or more to make mischief without being covered. No mater how good Bobby Wagner is, this isn't a sweep where he gets to line him up at the edge.

You should, in the game plan, expect to abuse this until they drop a LB into coverage regularly on him, even if he firsts stay in to block. That means one less defender in the middle of the end zone. But neither McCarthy nor Rodgers like to pass to backs normally.

[George Cumby]

It's like we now count on the 3rd down offense to fail.

It’s like the bad Favor years. 3rd and 12. You’re thinking to yourself: “Oh God, what idiocy is this brain dead hill billy gonna come up with THIS time?”

During Rodgers good years:”Third and twelve? Meh, we got this.”

[denverYooper]

It's like we now count on the 3rd down offense to fail.

Accurate.

[Freak Out]

That picture is driving me crazy. That's at least a first down, possibly a touch down.

And you are right, even on the two long TD passes, he throws short. Better than too long, but still not his old touch.

Man, the defense is not great, by any means, but it's better than it has been the last couple years. If MM
and Rodgers could get this offense straight (and now they even have a good, really good, running back!), they'd be at least 6-3-1 by now.

I sense though that the whole thing is gone stale, and it's time for a change of coaches. Ted's gone, and if Fackrell and Josh Jones pan out (they are both playing much better lately), then we'll have to retract the "it's all TT's fault" narrative, and make room for McCarthy to get some of the blame for not being able to score points, even with a solid offensive line (despite what Tex says).

Not a automatic first down if you watch it unfold...but I'd give Jones a shot at making someone miss...and if not it's 4th and short.

[call_me_ishmael]

Played the presser super cool, but did slip up at 7:30 or so about how they need to get open so he can throw the ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYUnaMBl0pU

[pbmax]

Not a automatic first down if you watch it unfold...but I'd give Jones a shot at making someone miss...and if not it's 4th and short.

Agreed. I am sure someone was assigned to watch for the last receiver out of the backfield. Its not that they forgot him, but that he is open.

Generally, QBs have great problems when they throw short of the sticks, it doesn't lend itself to 3rd down conversions. A lot of bad offenses throw short on 3rd and long and end up with 4th and 3 and punt.

Its not perfect, but if you gain five yards, its better on 4th down as you say. A lot depends on whether this is four down territory or not.

[pbmax]

Not a automatic first down if you watch it unfold...but I'd give Jones a shot at making someone miss...and if not it's 4th and short.

Freak, do you know this guy?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsLaiddU8AAMQEM.jpg:large

[Joemailman]

Not a automatic first down if you watch it unfold...but I'd give Jones a shot at making someone miss...and if not it's 4th and short.

Maybe not automatic, but he's got an inside/outside option, with a potential blocker on the outside. Taking Jones down in the open field is a tough task.

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet

The #Packers lost two starters in their brutal loss to the #Seahawks on Thursday. Along with TE Jimmy Graham (broken thumb), source said DE Mike Daniels is out a few weeks with a foot injury. He saw Dr. Robert Anderson and will get a timeline when he returns from the weekend off.

Going to find out a lot about Mt. Adams quickly.

[bobblehead]

New candidate for dumbest take:

Joe Banner @JoeBanner13
No one seems to remember the worst thing McCarthy did in my opinion. Rodgers was 16-19 and Packers had gained 250 yards in the first half, and scored 21 points. When sideline reporter asked him what they needed to do better in the second half he said “run more”. How did that go?


Did he watch the second half or is he saying they SHOULD have run more?

He is saying that MM did the worst thing imaginable. He knew the answer. Run more. Then he promptly went out and didn't run. I think he worded it very badly. Or you could be right and he is a raging moron.

[pbmax]

He is saying that MM did the worst thing imaginable. He knew the answer. Run more. Then he promptly went out and didn't run. I think he worded it very badly. Or you could be right and he is a raging moron.

I know what you are saying, but that doesn't seem to be the idea behind the question. It screams "You f***ed up the offense in the second half" by running more dummy.

[mraynrand]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet

The #Packers lost two starters in their brutal loss to the #Seahawks on Thursday. Along with TE Jimmy Graham (broken thumb), source said DE Mike Daniels is out a few weeks with a foot injury. He saw Dr. Robert Anderson and will get a timeline when he returns from the weekend off.

Going to find out a lot about Mt. Adams quickly.

We knew plenty from the fact he wasn't getting PT over Lancaster.

APRH. Every season it's the same thing. After a while, it just gets boring. I've had enough.

[pbmax]

We knew plenty from the fact he wasn't getting PT over Lancaster.

APRH. Every season it's the same thing. After a while, it just gets boring. I've had enough.

Quite possibly. But once upon a less gentle time, youngsters had to play to improve (that was a time period after they had to wait their time and earn it). I guess we will see.

[denverYooper]

Banjo had 2 INT and 2 PD yesterday for the Saints.

[pbmax]

Banjo had 2 INT and 2 PD yesterday for the Saints.

The Eagles offense has really fallen apart. But good for Banjo.

[pbmax]

On the 4th and 2 decision:

"We have a network and the numbers were being calculated," McCarthy said. "Three-and-out there, I think, puts us right about the 2-minute [mark]. ... I have great confidence in our 2-minute offense, especially with Aaron. That's the decision we made. It's a solid decision.

I don't think the coaches are allowed outside access to data. Packers coaches can't use their video library as the visiting team doesn't have that. They have to use the photos distributed to the surface tablets.

So what network means here is nebulous at best. Its probably just a term he remembers from the meeting he had with IS about laptop and iPad security.

You could just run a calculation on a calculator, but I think he is calculating time only. No way was he considering Win Probability.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25295250/business-in

[pbmax]

Yeah, he has no idea about win probability or the likelihood his defense was going to stop Seattle's run offense. He was thinking field position and clock only.

This is an inside look at how he fails to help his team in close moments in a game.


"Being an offensive coach, particularly early in my career, I had to develop a sense of operating more on the team mode, because my natural reaction, especially earlier, was always just to go for it. That's the inside look at exactly what went on there. You could see at one point I started to walk to the referee because I was going to call the timeout and just make sure we were set, because I already had the play that I wanted. But we talked it over game management-wise, and that's the decision I made."

[mraynrand]

If Stubby starts talking about principal component analysis he should be fired on the spot.

[pbmax]

The other part that kills me is that he didn't anticipate having to make that call. Why are you calling a TO when you might need it later just to get a play in?

[pbmax]

If Stubby starts talking about principal component analysis he should be fired on the spot.

Its a pretty damning analysis of the Packer beat writers that they haven't sniffed out whether the Packers are on the analytics bandwagon or not.

I seriously doubt M3 is. Ted might have been, as some of the board's draft nuts pointed out how he was selecting a lot of guys that scored high in SPARQ scored for explosive athletic ability.

The failure is that none of them know what analytics are. You never hear it even on the radio.

[mraynrand]

I want a SPARQ score for Stubby's stubbiness.

[Joemailman]

Its a pretty damning analysis of the Packer beat writers that they haven't sniffed out whether the Packers are on the analytics bandwagon or not.

I seriously doubt M3 is. Ted might have been, as some of the board's draft nuts pointed out how he was selecting a lot of guys that scored high in SPARQ scored for explosive athletic ability.

The failure is that none of them know what analytics are. You never hear it even on the radio.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2018/02/20/dougherty-packers-poised-profit-data-dump/354794002/


The Packers have been one of the more progressive teams in the league in implementing technology and analytics – they hired Eayrs in 2001, and coach Mike McCarthy was one of the early adopters using GPS tracking in practice, mainly to monitor workloads for injury prevention.

But McCarthy also has warned in the past of information pollution. Too much information can overwhelm, so the challenge for teams will be working with their analysts to bring meaning to the mounds of raw data.

For the teams that do it right, it should allow for a competitive advantage as an augment for human judgment, though not a substitute.

“What’s the big upside?” Eayrs said. “You’re gaining amazing precision, and you have the ability to quantify everything that’s happening on the field. … (But) at the end of the day you still have to decide whether you’re going to take Player A or Player B, and there are going to be intangibles that come into this.

“Who’s got the better emotional stability? Who’s got the better attitude? Who’s going to be more cohesive in the locker room? Who’s going to alienate the guys around them to the point that they’re not going to consider them a good teammate.? Those things, you can’t capture with player tracking.”

[pbmax]

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2018/02/20/dougherty-packers-poised-profit-data-dump/354794002/

But we don't know what Earys provides. I know he worked for the Vikings before but what does he track? Because M3 makes it sound like he tracks how many times winning teams run the ball over 20 times a game.

I did forget about GPS and all the practice changes. The move to Saturday and not Friday practice and the sports science guy. McCarthy isn't a total troglodyte.

But I don't think he pays attention to Win Probability during the game.

[pbmax]

BTW, the intangibles that analysts love to bring up ARE quantifiable for the most part. They show up in the results on the field.

[denverYooper]

The Eagles offense has really fallen apart. But good for Banjo.

Yeah, that last one especially was just a throw from Wentz right to him.

[mraynrand]

Yeah, that last one especially was just a throw from Wentz right to him.

You're not supposed to point out the particulars of a former Packer's INTs. Just claim what a mistake it was for the Packers to let him go.

[Pugger]

He is saying that MM did the worst thing imaginable. He knew the answer. Run more. Then he promptly went out and didn't run. I think he worded it very badly. Or you could be right and he is a raging moron.

Stubby talks a good game but at the first sign of the running game stalling he abandons it and goes back to having AR throw long bombs on 3rd and short. It is absolute insanity. We don't see other teams doing this shit either.

[Pugger]

The other part that kills me is that he didn't anticipate having to make that call. Why are you calling a TO when you might need it later just to get a play in?

Why do we need to waste all these TOs because we can't get the damn play in early enough? This is another thing that we do that drives me crazy.

[Joemailman]

Stubby talks a good game but at the first sign of the running game stalling he abandons it and goes back to having AR throw long bombs on 3rd and short. It is absolute insanity. We don't see other teams doing this shit either.

It's especially frustrating with a guy like Jones. He's the type of back who can get stuffed 3 plays in a row and then break one for 40.

[denverYooper]

It's especially frustrating with a guy like Jones. He's the type of back who can get stuffed 3 plays in a row and then break one for 40.

Has he gotten stuffed 3 plays in a row? It seems that he and the Packers OL are very good this year about getting + yards.



TM ALY RB YDS Power Stuffed 2nd Lvl Open Field Pass Pro
1 LAR 5.73 5.01 63% 24 13.6% 2 1.63 3 0.72 19 7 20 5.2%
2 NO 5.04 4.26 78% 6 13.2% 1 1.11 23 0.64 21 2 9 4.3%
3 IND 4.99 4.96 65% 20 16.0% 3 1.45 6 0.96 13 5 10 4.5%
4 GB 4.99 5.18 70% 16 16.8% 5 1.65 2 0.99 12 19 27 7.4%
5 DEN 4.84 5.05 79% 4 19.3% 15 1.57 4 1.05 8 16 24 7.1%


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

[mraynrand]

Has he gotten stuffed 3 plays in a row? It seems that he and the Packers OL are very good this year about getting + yards.



TM ALY RB YDS Power Stuffed 2nd Lvl Open Field Pass Pro
1 LAR 5.73 5.01 63% 24 13.6% 2 1.63 3 0.72 19 7 20 5.2%
2 NO 5.04 4.26 78% 6 13.2% 1 1.11 23 0.64 21 2 9 4.3%
3 IND 4.99 4.96 65% 20 16.0% 3 1.45 6 0.96 13 5 10 4.5%
4 GB 4.99 5.18 70% 16 16.8% 5 1.65 2 0.99 12 19 27 7.4%
5 DEN 4.84 5.05 79% 4 19.3% 15 1.57 4 1.05 8 16 24 7.1%


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Honestly, they have a 'stuffed' category/ Perfect for Thanksgiving weekend.

[Fritz]

I still can't figure how Stubs thought his defense would stop Seattle at that point.

[pbmax]

I still can't figure how Stubs thought his defense would stop Seattle at that point.

I will give him the fact that he shouldn't have any confidence in his 3rd/4th down offense. But with 1 timeout and the way Seattle had run, you had to know how it would work out.

[bobblehead]

I still can't figure how Stubs thought his defense would stop Seattle at that point.

Stubby always thinks within a predetermined subset. What his eyes have told him for 55 minutes isn't relevant, its what he knows from 35 years in the game. He knows that the defense can theoretically get a stop. He knew yesterday and 5 years ago that you punt there because if you get a stop you still have time for a FG. It didn't matter what had happened that half or that game.

[bobblehead]

Ironically if we are in a similar situation, but had gotten 4 straight 3 and outs in a defensive slugfest he will punt again....and think that the situation was identical because the down/distance/time and deficit were all identical.

[pbmax]

Stubby always thinks within a predetermined subset. What his eyes have told him for 55 minutes isn't relevant, its what he knows from 35 years in the game. He knows that the defense can theoretically get a stop. He knew yesterday and 5 years ago that you punt there because if you get a stop you still have time for a FG. It didn't matter what had happened that half or that game.

Its EXACTLY this. Rand has pointed this out too, but this exact same stubborn approach, which helps keep him, the coaches and the players on an even keel simply prevents him from making any substantial changes in the middle of anything (game or season).

You have to threaten his QB to make him change his plan. And then only after halftime.