Vikings II Talk

[pbmax]

Michael David Smith @MichaelDavSmith
How the Vikings' pass offense changed since signing Kirk Cousins:

2017: 4th in passer rating
2018: 10th in passer rating

2017: 11th in yards per pass
2018: 20th in yards per pass

2017: 7th fewest sacks
2018: 15th fewest sacks

2017: 2nd fewest INTs
2018: 11th fewest INTs

[Joemailman]

Last year I asked a guy who is a lifelong Redskins fan why they never signed Cousins to a long-term contract. He said it was because of Cousins' performance in big games. Didn't see the game last night, but it sounds like he had one of those performances.

[red]

yeah, cousins isn't special or elite, or anywhere close to it

but he is good enough to win with a very good team built around him

ala flacco

[pbmax]

yeah, cousins isn't special or elite, or anywhere close to it

but he is good enough to win with a very good team built around him

ala flacco

Why were they better with Colt McCoy?

[call_me_ishmael]

Cousins sure looked damn special against the Packers a few years back on SNF. Threw some really pretty, perfectly placed balls.

[red]

Cousins sure looked damn special against the Packers a few years back on SNF. Threw some really pretty, perfectly placed balls.

so did that 4th string QB who had never started a game before with the 49ers

our defense has never been a very good test for determining how good opposing QB's are

they all look like gods

[red]

Why were they better with Colt McCoy?

maybe colts a better QB?

[gbgary]

cousins is way above average. their o-line is down from what it was last year. it's affecting both the passing and running game for them.

[Joemailman]

McCarthy said Graham will attempt to play through his thumb injury, while Daniels is expected to miss a few weeks with a foot injury..

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
McCarthy on Jimmy Graham: He intends to try to go. I don't have a diagnosis on Mike Daniels. I think he's going to be a couple of weeks.

McCarthy said Graham will try to work with different splints and said every injury is different so it's hard to say whether it will work out.

McCarthy said the four players who missed the Seattle game are still question marks and he won't know their chances until practice Wednesday. Said he may have to add a defensive lineman with Daniels out several weeks.

McCarthy on message: We fully understand where we are. We need to win on the road. That's something we haven't done. It's a tough place to play there. Second time around in the division is a fun time in my experience. This is all about beating the Vikings. We have to win.

[red]

ah good ole packer hamstring

how many weeks has cobb missed now with the bad hammy? don't forget the bye week

only a matter of time before he follows in so many other packers and ends up on IR because of a bad hammy

about to miss his 6th game. 7 weeks since the injury

broken bones heal faster then pulled hamstrings in green bay

[Joemailman]

ah good ole packer hamstring

how many weeks has cobb missed now with the bad hammy? don't forget the bye week

only a matter of time before he follows in so many other packers and ends up on IR because of a bad hammy

about to miss his 6th game. 7 weeks since the injury

broken bones heal faster then pulled hamstrings in green bay

Any word on whether Kumerow is practicing? I wouldn't mind him and Cobb trading places.

[pbmax]

Any word on whether Kumerow is practicing? I wouldn't mind him and Cobb trading places.

If he is it hasn't hit the wire yet.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Michael David Smith @MichaelDavSmith
How the Vikings' pass offense changed since signing Kirk Cousins:

2017: 4th in passer rating
2018: 10th in passer rating

2017: 11th in yards per pass
2018: 20th in yards per pass

2017: 7th fewest sacks
2018: 15th fewest sacks

2017: 2nd fewest INTs
2018: 11th fewest INTs

They lost their OC, and that has changed things for the worse more than Cousins, IMO. I told a lot of my Vikes friends that they would miss Shurmur in that offense as he schemed the hell out of getting players open. Hell, he made Keenum look like a legit option at QB. Couldn't stop him from leaving though. The Iggles braintrusts from last year are looking like flukes and MN got bit by that.

[pbmax]

Why were they better with Colt McCoy?


maybe colts a better QB?

My bad. I meant Case Keenum.

[Fritz]

They lost their OC, and that has changed things for the worse more than Cousins, IMO. I told a lot of my Vikes friends that they would miss Shurmur in that offense as he schemed the hell out of getting players open. Hell, he made Keenum look like a legit option at QB. Couldn't stop him from leaving though. The Iggles braintrusts from last year are looking like flukes and MN got bit by that.


If you're a Minny fan, it's got to be a disappointing year so far.

I don't think our expectations for GB were that great this year, but Minny was supposed to be primed for a SB run.

[mraynrand]

If you're a Minny fan, it's got to be a disappointing year so far.

I don't think our expectations for GB were that great this year, but Minny was supposed to be primed for a SB run.

They made all the right moves to get past Philly.

[denverYooper]

They made all the right moves to get past Philly.

lol.

I remember when Philly was loaded with talent and would be dominant for a few years.

[deake]

Any word on whether Kumerow is practicing? I wouldn't mind him and Cobb trading places.

+1

[Fritz]

yeah, cousins isn't special or elite, or anywhere close to it

but he is good enough to win with a very good team built around him

ala flacco

I wonder if the Packers would be smart to use the new safety, Irbrahim Campbell, as one of their starting safeties, play Jones at the other, and thus allow Tramon Williams to rotate at corner with King, Alexander, et al.

Apparently Campbell, while not overly talented, knows how to play Pettine's defense inside and out, and is suited to playing deep. He is also supposedly a willing tackler.

I know he sounds kinda like Whitehead, but I think maybe it would be better to be able to rotate all kinds of corners against Minnesota.

As for Oren Burks, is this turning into the usual lost rookie season? He can't even seem to get on the field on obvious passing downs.

Martinez is having a good year, though. And Fackrell. Who knew?

Maybe at the end of the year we'll have to take Fackrell and Josh Jones off of Ted's bust list.

[Tony Oday]

Kumerow is back.

I've said it all year the Vikings suck. Their defense living on past performance and no offensive line doom this team.

[MadScientist]

Kumerow is back.

I've said it all year the Vikings suck. Their defense living on past performance and no offensive line doom this team.

Yeah, but do they suck enough for the Packers to actually beat them on the road? Does anybody suck that badly?

[Fritz]

Yeah, but do they suck enough for the Packers to actually beat them on the road? Does anybody suck that badly?

This is going to be the Packers' "tease" win. I've been waiting for that classic win since the LA game. It will be followed by another win, maybe even two, then a couple of devastating losses.

[mraynrand]

Yeah, but do they suck enough for the Packers to actually beat them on the road? Does anybody suck that badly?

NE, LS, SEA, all came pretty close to losing at home to the Pack. How bad do they suck, especially at home?

[mraynrand]

Just to clarify - the Packers are competitive, but they're losing tough games to good teams on the road. That's the mark of a .500 team. They can beat the Vikings. It wouldn't even be much of an upset. But if they want to be more than a .500 team, they have to a turn a corner somewhere. They can do it by the same old on offense if Rodgers gets healthy, or they can do it by expanding beyond the EO. On defense they have to overcome injuries (Daniels, Perry, King, safeties), ineffective outside rushers (Perry, Matthews), and be dominant in the secondary. Vikings are a tough challenge for their secondary, because they play technically clean ball (great routes and concepts). So the key is to frustrate Cousins with unexpected pressure, and/or for Fackrell to rule the world.

[wist43]

I think the Packers beating the Vikings on the road would be a big upset... we're simply not in their league.

I've completely given up on McCarthy, and Rodgers needs an ass kicking coach to reign his ass in. We're simply not going to win anything unless Rodgers gets his head out of his ass.

[texaspackerbacker]

Some whine about the Packers finding ways to lose; I prefer to think of it as being snake bit by freak occurrences. The only game the Packers were out of was against Washington. ALL of the others including the Rams and Patriots on the road they arguably should have one. That includes the damn tie against the Vikings, which clearly should have been a Packer win.

Not in the Vikings league? Fuck that. "Reign" in Rodgers? That's idiocy too. Your analysis is on a par with your spelling, Wist.

[wist43]

Apologies... I must have mis-typed rein, and it auto'd to the wrong reign :)

[texaspackerbacker]

It auto'd it because even a computer sees Aaron Rodgers as like royalty and not something needing to be reined in :-)

[pbmax]

+1


Any word on whether Kumerow is practicing? I wouldn't mind him and Cobb trading places.

Good news everyone!

Kumerow is back!

[pbmax]

I think the Packers beating the Vikings on the road would be a big upset... we're simply not in their league.

I've completely given up on McCarthy, and Rodgers needs an ass kicking coach to reign his ass in. We're simply not going to win anything unless Rodgers gets his head out of his ass.

They tied the Vikings and beat the Bears that just beat the Vikings. How is this not in their League?

You want to tell me there will be too many penalties, two fumbles and a close game kicked away because of a bad decision (no TOs, deep throw on 3rd and 3, punting on 4th and 2) I will believe you, visitor from the future.

But if you say we are not in their League I think you aren't actually writing about football as its been played this year.

[pbmax]

Kumerow is back.

I've said it all year the Vikings suck. Their defense living on past performance and no offensive line doom this team.


Rob Demovsky @RobDemovsky

The Packers have activated WR/preseason star Jake Kumerow off IR to practice. So that's it for IR-return spots. Teams get two and they already used one on Trevor Davis. If Kumerow ends up playing, all of Wisconsin will rejoice. https://es.pn/2R1j9B7


You didn't get Kahil Mack, but we got Jake Kumerow. Hello slot starter!

[mraynrand]

Rob Demovsky @RobDemovsky

The Packers have activated WR/preseason star Jake Kumerow off IR to practice. So that's it for IR-return spots. Teams get two and they already used one on Trevor Davis. If Kumerow ends up playing, all of Wisconsin will rejoice. https://es.pn/2R1j9B7


You didn't get Kahil Mack, but we got Jake Kumerow. Hello slot starter!

Davis and Kum give Stubby his five wide weapons back. EO returns!

[call_me_ishmael]

MM is a good coach so they will win this game.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Kumerow is BLACK!

What!?!?

I’d be willing to bet my minimum wage burger flipping paycheck, which is usually around $202 per week after taxes and shitty health insurance (assuming the pigs don’t cut any hours), that Kumerow plays the great Adam Thielen in practice this week.

Wish the NFL was a lot like Partail’s favorite musical, Hamilton, where colors are irrelevant. ;)

[mraynrand]

You just know NBC is selling this game as Kumerow versus Beebe.

[pbmax]

You just know NBC is selling this game as Kumerow versus Beebe.

I was hurt on a deep and personal level when Beebe was on the screen and no mention of has glorious Packer years was made. I mean he finally won a Super Bowl with them.

[mraynrand]

I was hurt on a deep and personal level when Beebe was on the screen and no mention of has glorious Packer years was made. I mean he finally won a Super Bowl with them.

And his best day as a pro was with the Packers - the 200+ yard receiving game against SF on MNF when all the Packer receivers were out. Amazing.

(They'll mention it Sunday night for sure)

[bobblehead]

Any word on whether Kumerow is practicing? I wouldn't mind him and Cobb trading places.

Kuuuuummmerow!!! He is practicing. Maybe he was hurt so bad it took this long to be able to go. Maybe MM and Gute are stupid and stubborn in neglecting him cuz he didn't come to the NFL the "right way". Maybe he lights up the league after he is ready to play.

[bobblehead]

As for Oren Burks, is this turning into the usual lost rookie season? He can't even seem to get on the field on obvious passing downs.



I heard he was 4" out of position on a play and MM decided he couldn't have a rookie on the field who didn't know his responsibilities.

[bobblehead]

I think the Packers beating the Vikings on the road would be a big upset... we're simply not in their league.

I've completely given up on McCarthy, and Rodgers needs an ass kicking coach to reign his ass in. We're simply not going to win anything unless Rodgers gets his head out of his ass.

We literally would be dead even with them if the refs didn't rob us of game 1. How are we not in their league??

[bobblehead]

Some whine about the Packers finding ways to lose; I prefer to think of it as being snake bit by freak occurrences. The only game the Packers were out of was against Washington. ALL of the others including the Rams and Patriots on the road they arguably should have one. That includes the damn tie against the Vikings, which clearly should have been a Packer win.

Not in the Vikings league? Fuck that. "Reign" in Rodgers? That's idiocy too. Your analysis is on a par with your spelling, Wist.

That is rich when you are the spellcheck rat for the last umpteen years.

[wist43]

We literally would be dead even with them if the refs didn't rob us of game 1. How are we not in their league??

I don't view McCarthy as a competent game manager anymore... he wastes possessions, wastes timeouts, has lousy situational awareness, et al.

Add to that the fundamental flaws that exist on the roster, i.e. horrifically bad LB play, a soft OL, and a QB who won't take what is given...

Add it up... the Packers are a mess - at least in terms of contending.

We're good enough to beat bad teams, and we're good enough to sort of hang with better teams... but the end is never really in doubt.

Gute needs to fire Fat Mike, and continue to turn the roster over.

[texaspackerbacker]

That is rich when you are the spellcheck rat for the last umpteen years.

Yeah, you got me their hahahahahaha.

[pbmax]

Andy @AndyCarlsonShow
I'm thankful for getting an advanced copy of John DeFilippo's new book. Can't wait to dive into this bad boy in between slices of pumpkin pie today. #blessed


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsoS4_DU8AAWiCM.jpg

[pbmax]

So Rodgers, Adams, Bach and Clark?

Pro Football Focus @PFF
Aaron Donald has been the NFL's best interior defender through 11 weeks.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsoaRTTVAAALT9G.jpg

[mraynrand]

I have “2nd and 11 for experts” by Cleft Crusty. Far more informative and insulting.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Some whine about the Packers finding ways to lose; I prefer to think of it as being snake bit by freak occurrences. The only game the Packers were out of was against Washington. ALL of the others including the Rams and Patriots on the road they arguably should have one. That includes the damn tie against the Vikings, which clearly should have been a Packer win.

Not in the Vikings league? Fuck that. "Reign" in Rodgers? That's idiocy too. Your analysis is on a par with your spelling, Wist.

Could, woulda, shoulda, if only are for losers. Winners don’t say coulda, woulda, shoulda, if only. Winners find a way to win.

Pack are what their record says they’re are.

[texaspackerbacker]

I disagree. HOW is all happens is very relevant.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I disagree. HOW is all happens is very relevant.

Quit swimming in the sea of excuses, Tex. 4-5-1 says this team is inconsistent, stupid and soft.

[texaspackerbacker]

Which of those 5 losses and a tie other than the Redskins game do you see as a "clean" loss - no weirdness in terms of officiating, luck, or freak events?

[Fritz]

Which of those 5 losses and a tie other than the Redskins game do you see as a "clean" loss - no weirdness in terms of officiating, luck, or freak events?

Tex, there are very, very few "clean" losses OR wins. Things just seem to go your way when you're winning, and when you're losing, things don't fall your way.

Right now, the Packers are what they are - a mediocre football team. Somewhere between what you think and what Wist thinks.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Right now, the Packers are what they are - a mediocre football team. Somewhere between what you think and what Wist thinks.
So, perfect shit.

[bobblehead]

I don't view McCarthy as a competent game manager anymore... he wastes possessions, wastes timeouts, has lousy situational awareness, et al.

Add to that the fundamental flaws that exist on the roster, i.e. horrifically bad LB play, a soft OL, and a QB who won't take what is given...

Add it up... the Packers are a mess - at least in terms of contending.

We're good enough to beat bad teams, and we're good enough to sort of hang with better teams... but the end is never really in doubt.

Gute needs to fire Fat Mike, and continue to turn the roster over.

Agree with all that except...MN isn't really that good of a team right now either. I actually think we beat them.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't know what "perfect shit" means hahahahaha. What I see from some in here, though, a distinct fear of being wrong by telling it like it is and predicting the Packers will win. The fact is, we damn near won games against probably 2 of the 3 best teams in the league, beaten only by bad calls and weird occurrences. We also were tied by the Vikings in large part due to bad calls. We lost to Detroit on the aberration of Mason Crosby's career worst game. We lost to Seattle also in large part due to bad calls. All of those losses were on the road; All of them were with Aaron Rodgers less healthy and mobile than he presumably is now.

Whine on if you like about how bad the Packers are (shame on you if you do, though). I'm expecting a victory against the Vikings`and I'm not ruling out running the table a lot like we did in the 2010 season - when there was similar whining and negativity, as I recall.

[Pugger]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-2018-first-quarter-all-pro-team

[pbmax]

Here is a newer one: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-2018-mid-season-all-pro-team

Bach is first team LT
Clark is honorable mention
Martinez is behind Vanderesch and Wagner and Kuechly and Brown now
JK Scott had honorable mention at the 1/4 pole but is not on the list now behind Palardy and Koch

[wist43]

Best case scenario for the rest of season is 8-7-1.

That would include the expected losses against Minn and Chi, and not coughing up a fur ball against one of the teams we're expected to beat.

We're not a contender, so losses help us next year... take the long view.

[pbmax]

Chris Tomasson @christomasson
Hearing #Vikings WR Chad Beebe could miss multiple games with hamstring injury suffered in practice Wednesday. Wondering if Vikings might consider IR on him if feel injury could linger. If immediate roster spot sought, would seem TE Cole Hikutini could be candidate but we'll see.


It doesn't take much of a Packer connection to shred a hammy. I bet there is a college senior or two who tweaked a hammy in the last month just as the prospect of being scouted and drafted by the Packers. They are now questionable for rivalry week.

[Pugger]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25367030/nick-perry-green-bay-packers-placed-injured-reserve

[Bretsky]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25367030/nick-perry-green-bay-packers-placed-injured-reserve

GOODBYE NICK PERRY


Odds are the Vikings will sign him

[pbmax]

Jeez that guy cannot stay healthy. He should have lost the weight instead of stay at 270.

[pbmax]

Michael Cohen @Michael_Cohen13
Agreed. Never looked fully recovered from the ankle surgery, then the knee popped up.

[wist43]

Fackrell and Mooney??

Both of those guys need to be cut along with Perry next year...

I hope to God the Packers don't think Fackrell's numbers are indicative of talent, b/c Fackrell doesn't have any!!

[Fritz]

Fackrell and Mooney??

Both of those guys need to be cut along with Perry next year...

I hope to God the Packers don't think Fackrell's numbers are indicative of talent, b/c Fackrell doesn't have any!!


Thank God you're not the GM of the Packers. You'd cut Fackrell now - your team sack leader, still on his rookie contract.

Wow.

[pbmax]

Thank God you're not the GM of the Packers. You'd cut Fackrell now - your team sack leader, still on his rookie contract.

Wow.

It is adorable that our future GM doesn't know the last name of his backup OLB though. Gives him an absent minded GM sort of vibe.

[pbmax]

It is adorable that our future GM doesn't know the last name of his backup OLB though. Gives him an absent minded GM sort of vibe.

It's not so adorable that I forgot that Looney is a DL. He's in there for Daniels.

[bobblehead]

It's not so adorable that I forgot that Looney is a DL. He's in there for Daniels.

Nope. Equally adorable. Its always best when you screw up criticizing someone else!!

[pbmax]

Silverstein on what parts of this offensive downturn are on Rodgers (much of the Seattle game): https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/11/24/silverstein-packers-rodgers-bears-equal-blame-what-ails-offense/2082948002/

[pbmax]

Just stop kicking field goals already.

http://www.footballperspective.com/why-field-goals-are-less-valuable-than-they-used-to-be/

[wist43]

Thank God you're not the GM of the Packers. You'd cut Fackrell now - your team sack leader, still on his rookie contract.

Wow.

Fackrell can't win on his own. The sacks he is credited with are incidental. Hell, he was credited with a sack on one play where he never touched the QB.

He's too slow, can't bend, lacks strength and quickness... He's as pedestrian as they come.

Of course he needs to be replaced.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Silverstein on what parts of this offensive downturn are on Rodgers (much of the Seattle game): https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/11/24/silverstein-packers-rodgers-bears-equal-blame-what-ails-offense/2082948002/

Rodgers hasn’t been sharpe since he started dating that NASCAR cougar. Shoulda stayed with Yoko - ain’t a coincidence that Butte won a SB and 2 MVPs while the two of ‘em were dancing heterogeneously.

[pbmax]

Rodgers hasn’t been sharpe since he started dating that NASCAR cougar. Shoulda stayed with Yoko - ain’t a coincidence that Butte won a SB and 2 MVPs while the two of ‘em were dancing heterogeneously.

You are only off by 4 years. That pretty accurate for your normal prognosticating.

[mraynrand]

Fackrell can't win on his own. The sacks he is credited with are incidental.

Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.