2019 Season Top Priority: O line

[mraynrand]

Without a question the offensive line is a disaster. The Packers have a solid center in Linsley, a capable LT in Bacteria - when healthy - and absolutely nothing else. Taylor was a promising light last year, but he has regressed. Maybe he can be a long term backup at guard. Bulaga is done. McCray is stop gap at best. Bell is a non factor - he can't even jog 10 yards onto the field without suffering extreme exhaustion. Packers need to draft the best Tackle in the draft and solidify that spot for the rest of Rodgers' run. They need to draft at least one guard, more likely two, and bring in another, and bring in a tackle in FA who can back up both spots.

This is top priority because they have an aging QB, they have running backs who can run, but they can't protect the QB and can't run block worth crap. Solving the O line will protect the franchise and can help solve a lot of ills elsewhere by helping to establish an offense that can possess the ball.

I know people are looking at pass rush/LBs, a defensive back (Safety), TE, and maybe a WR, but they can't afford to get Rodgers killed and have such an inefficient offense because they have no line. Fixing that will help hide other cracks in the roster.

So, I'm not much of a college guy/draftnik. Who do people like as O-line prospects?

[gbgary]

not with the first three picks but yeah. through free agency too. there's a down side though...it'll only encourage Rodgers to hold on to the ball longer. https://www.packerforum.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/wink.png

[texaspackerbacker]

To a great extent, I agree with you, Rand. I'm not as sold on Bakhtiari as a lot of other people, but at least he's not as bad as the others except Linsley, and Linsley was an after thought - the second Center drafted that year.

I hope they go after multiple O Line prospects, but not in the first round or maybe not even the second. Top college O Linemen don't always become NFL stars - probably the reason for so many busts and disappointments among high round O Line picks.

The most important thing IMO is to change the type of O Lineman. I want the Packers to go after big "road grader" types - not undersized Spriggs types.

I also will leave specific names to others. What we need more than anything else is LUCK (or if you prefer, skillful careful choosing) of our draft picks like we haven't had for a helluva long time.

And I WANT Rodgers to hold the ball as long as necessary to get completions down field and continue throwing less interceptions than anybody in history.

[mraynrand]

Of course, selection round isn't as important as performance. But they need some decent linemen - three starters and a backup tackle - at least, this offseason. I say be willing to spend one of the first rounders if you want an elite physical specimen.

I was watching a couple of 2010 selections and was impressed how versatile the offense was because the linemen could run and pass block. Noticed that even in the NFCC game versus Chicago, Clifton went out with a stinger and Lang was not too shabby stepping in for him. But Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Sitton, Bulaga was a really nice line and allowed Stubby to use all sorts of formations from 3 running backs to five wideouts, sometimes in the same set of downs. Defenses were really on their heels. Starks Jackson and Kuhn were no great shakes at RB, but they were able to get chunks of yards due to the passing threat, but mainly due to really good blocking. Packers could stand to draft a Jennings to be sure, but solid line play is essential, and right now the Packers have huge problems on the line.

[gbgary]

not as sold on Bakhtiari as a lot of other people

huh? he's only been a top 3 LT for years. how could you not be "sold" on him?

[MadScientist]

Bact and Lindsey are the anchors of the line for next year, but the odds are that at least one of the current starters will stay. It's tough to 1) throw in 3 new guys and 2) find 3 new guys that are worth starting. Whoever they get should be working with a much better coach (and I can finally change my sig file).

[woodbuck27]

Maybe the Packers should look at what Indy has been doing to ensure protection of Andrew Luck.

It's being reported that that Colts OL is excellent. Then we get them matched up on the road in Jacksonville and the score Jaguars 6 Colts ZERO in Week 13.

I want the OL upgraded 'of course but after that I want a scary Pass Rush and more real talent at WR.

The Packers must say bye bye to Jimmy Graham and get a solid TE.

[Dirty Sanchez]

not with the first three picks but yeah. through free agency too. there's a down side though...it'll only encourage Rodgers to hold on to the ball longer. https://www.packerforum.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/wink.pngThat's a big issue that many seem to overlook. This was addressed in a players only meeting during the Superbowl run and as a result, the team went on a tear to win it. But over the years, Aaron seems to have gone back to his old sandlot habits.

The best half of football Aaron played this year was after he got injured against Chicago and was forced to play an up tempo game with quick throws that kept Chicago's defense on it's heels and get Aaron in a groove. Not sure why we didn't do more of that in the following games.

[texaspackerbacker]

huh? he's only been a top 3 LT for years. how could you not be "sold" on him?

Yeah, so says a lot of "experts" ....... but every game I see him missing several blocks and letting the pass rushers come roaring in. And I haven't seen that great run blocking from him either. As I said, he stands out as good - but only in comparison to the low quality around him.

[pbmax]

So put the QBs life at risk to encourage him not to hold on to the ball?

OK.

I think both lines need help. I would not be surprised to see interior pass rush and O Line be the first two picks.

[pbmax]

Yeah, so says a lot of "experts" ....... but every game I see him missing several blocks and letting the pass rushers come roaring in. And I haven't seen that great run blocking from him either. As I said, he stands out as good - but only in comparison to the low quality around him.

The question isn't whether he is that good. He is.

But he's hurt and has been getting injured in each of the last 2 or 3 seasons. That normally spells trouble.

[mraynrand]

The question isn't whether he is that good. He is.

But he's hurt and has been getting injured in each of the last 2 or 3 seasons. That normally spells trouble.

That's why you need a solid backup who can play both sides, if possible.

[mraynrand]

Gonna start dropping video on prospects:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_qaqYSj2l0

[Rutnstrut]

When I was bitching about the line last year, most of the homers on here were saying how great it is. Now all of a sudden you guys can finally see the light? I do agree that Lindsley and Bacteria are solid.

[wist43]

That's why you need a solid backup who can play both sides, if possible.

Well, that ain't Spriggs.

He was a huge swing and a miss.

So many wasted high picks... Gute needs to self scout the scouting dept and get rid of the scouts that are giving these bad evaluations.

[wist43]

When I was bitching about the line last year, most of the homers on here were saying how great it is. Now all of a sudden you guys can finally see the light? I do agree that Lindsley and Bacteria are solid.

I've hated how MM went about putting together an OL from the beginning... I want more power running, pulling, trapping. Our OL was decent for a couple of years a few years back, but for the most part OL has been a weakness for almost all of MMs tenure.

[mraynrand]

When I was bitching about the line last year, most of the homers on here were saying how great it is. Now all of a sudden you guys can finally see the light? I do agree that Lindsley and Bacteria are solid.

Taylor played better last year, the stop gap RG was passable and RT quality always depends on Bulaga's health. Things have changed since last year. I don't think there's a poster here who would think last year's line was anywhere as good as Clifton-College-Wells-Sitton-Bulaga in 2010.

[mraynrand]

When I was bitching about the line last year.

You bitch about everything. One more complaint is just white noise. :)

[pbmax]

Well, that ain't Spriggs.

He was a huge swing and a miss.

So many wasted high picks... Gute needs to self scout the scouting dept and get rid of the scouts that are giving these bad evaluations.

One more offseason, one more camp. His pass blocking has improved.

Of course, his run blocking may have gotten worse. You can never be sure with my guy.

[pbmax]

huh? he's only been a top 3 LT for years. how could you not be "sold" on him?

That is nothing. Tex isn't sure that there actually are 50 states. He is pretty sure 2 of them are fictions.

[pbmax]

When I was bitching about the line last year, most of the homers on here were saying how great it is. Now all of a sudden you guys can finally see the light? I do agree that Lindsley and Bacteria are solid.

Linsley had a good year. Bach was a Pro Bowler. Bulaga was fine when healthy. Taylor had a good year last year and Evans filled in adequately, especially in pass pro.

This year, Bach is hurt, Bulaga is more hurt than normal, Taylor regressed and there is a cardboard cutout at LG. And SPRIGGS met with a shaman who promised him a breakthrough year but he was sold a bill of goods on that deal.

Why can't you see that its worse this year? Especially pass blocking?

[pbmax]

I've hated how MM went about putting together an OL from the beginning... I want more power running, pulling, trapping. Our OL was decent for a couple of years a few years back, but for the most part OL has been a weakness for almost all of MMs tenure.

Bullshit. For years you wanted road graders. Make up your mind! :lol:

[Bretsky]

One more offseason, one more camp. His pass blocking has improved.

Of course, his run blocking may have gotten worse. You can never be sure with my guy.


in Summary, Jason Spriggs cannot be counted on to perform in a remotely consistent manner

[mraynrand]

in Summary, Jason Spriggs cannot be counted on to perform in a remotely consistent manner

I really believe, with hard work, Spriggs could become the next Breno Giacomini.

[pbmax]

I really believe, with hard work, Spriggs could become the next Breno Giacomini.

Super Bowl winner. I'll take it :D

[Bretsky]

I really believe, with hard work, Spriggs could become the next Breno Giacomini.


Yup, or with some luck perhaps Allen Barbre

[mraynrand]

Adams III from Washington. Watch him dominate Looney


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SokitG_OBno

[Fritz]

Well, let's hope they don't let Spriggs go after all that work developing him just so he can go start for New England or Seattle for three or four years.

[texaspackerbacker]

That is nothing. Tex isn't sure that there actually are 50 states. He is pretty sure 2 of them are fictions.

That's God damned Obama, not me, that doesn't know how many states there are - nobody is better at geography than I am. (Careful - we don't want this thread to end up in FYI hahahaha).

As for Bakhtiari, as I tell folks often in FYI, I'm way bigger on observation than on theory or stats or rankings or whatever. And what I observe is Bakhtiari getting beat on blocks way too often - just not as often as Bulaga, Taylor, and that cardboard cut out.

[MadScientist]

When I was bitching about the line last year, most of the homers on here were saying how great it is. Now all of a sudden you guys can finally see the light? I do agree that Lindsley and Bacteria are solid.

Don't look at me, I've had this signature for this whole decade if not more. The line play has generally been substandard, masked by great QB play. This year they have been unmasked.

[mraynrand]

nobody is better at geography than I am.

What's the capital of Upper Volta?

[Bretsky]

Well, let's hope they don't let Spriggs go after all that work developing him just so he can go start for New England or Seattle for three or four years.

developed a soft patty cake into a hardened sack of crap

Best use of Spriggs is to send him to the Bears or VIkings; that would at least elevate our defense in two key games a year

[mraynrand]

Best use of Spriggs is to send him to the Bears or VIkings; that would at least elevate our defense in two key games a year

I like the way you think

[run pMc]

OL is important, i'm not sure it's top priority though. They need long term solutions at RT and RG, and a backup swing tackle who can play adequately. That's a tall order; some teams don't have one decent starting tackle.

You could also argue that S, OLB, TE or DL are needs. They miss Mike Daniels, have a 35 year old CB playing S, and a guy with a broken thumb and fading speed/hops at TE.

[run pMc]

DP. weird.

[pbmax]

I want to be clear I am not calling tex old or forgetful.

I am saying he thinks 2 states sneaked in without proper credentials when Congress wasn't looking.

[George Cumby]

What's the capital of Upper Volta?

Stalingrad?

[George Cumby]

Off topic:

What if there is a top QB prospect available when Guts is on the board? Does history rhyme the way George Lucas says it does?

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, let's hope they don't let Spriggs go after all that work developing him just so he can go start for New England or Seattle for three or four years.


What's the capital of Upper Volta?

There is no more Upper Volta. It's Burkina Faso now, and the capital is Ougadougu (which means "no shit" in Swahili). I may be the only person who can take a blank sheet of paper and write down all 194 countries in the world with their capitals.

[texaspackerbacker]

I want to be clear I am not calling tex old or forgetful.

I am saying he thinks 2 states sneaked in without proper credentials when Congress wasn't looking.

One president probably did, but not two states.

[pbmax]

There is no more Upper Volta. It's Burkina Faso now, and the capital is Ougadougu (which means "no shit" in Swahili). I may be the only person who can take a blank sheet of paper and write down all 194 countries in the world with their capitals.

Hakuna Matata

This is better than my lame joke.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ougadougu really is the capital, though.

[mraynrand]

There is no more Upper Volta....

it was a trick question

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I dunno what’s more boring, geography or geology.

The former, if I wanna know where in the world is Carmen San Diego, I’ll use google. The latter, pretty much just the study of rocks.

[pbmax]

it was a trick question

Funny, but not as funny and whoever gave tex that translation.

[mraynrand]

Funny, but not as funny and whoever gave tex that translation.

Prob Lt. Uhura

[mraynrand]

FYI: Ole Miss OL Greg Little Declares For Draft


He's large but looks stiff to me. Not sure he has the feet to be a good pass pro LT. Maybe RT or guard in NFL.

[Patler]

Lane Taylor was more than adequate as a starter in both 2016 and 2017. He even filled in adequately at LT for one game last year. He seemed off his game early this year, but the entire offense was and still is. If Taylor can return to what he was in 2016 and 2017, he will be fine as one guard.

Don't forget about the possibility of Cole Madison being back next year. Obviously, he still has to prove he belongs in the NFL, but his strength was supposed to be pass pro. Several identified him as a possible "sleeper" pick for the Packers. I'm not suggesting he changes the need for bringing in more prospects, but he ends up almost like an extra pick for next year.

Can't figure out McCray. He played a lot last year (8 starts, several more in which he played significant snaps) mostly at RT, but some at both guard positions, and did OK. I expected more from him this year. Maybe last year was a flash in the pan, and he will never get there again. Maybe he really is a RT, not a guard as they said last year and tried to make him this year. Not saying he is a long term answer anywhere on the line.

Sprigs has been a huge disappointment. Maybe a glimmer of improvement this year, probably enough that he will be back in a reserve role in the last year of his contract in 2019, but I'm not counting on him for anything beyond that.

I do want to see Kyle Murphy next year. I thought he showed some potential.

They really do need some fresh talent; but the reality is that most teams don't have 5 starters they are satisfied with, let alone quality backups. Lines like the Packers had in the Clifton & Tauscher years are not the norm.

[mraynrand]

Good post Parker. My hope is that between Taylor and Cole they get a decent starting guard. If mildly lucky they get a starter and a backup. If very lucky they get two starters. So at minimum they need a starting Tackle and a backup tackle who can play both sides. I doubt that Spriggs or Murphy can be that backup but maybe.

Most likely they need three linemen in the offseason. Starting tackle, guard, and a backup tackle. With a FA starting guard that’s not a steep dent in their draft considering the number of picks they have.

[pbmax]

Good post Parker.

I can't believe you outed Patler as Spiderman, Mr. Jameson.

[pbmax]

Wasn't Taylor hurt at the beginning of the year? Surgery in offseason or something?

Taylor was shakiest at pass pro even when he was going good. Its not a tire fire, but its his weak spot. I would not be amazed to read he was injured all season long.

I don't trust McCray as anything beyond a backup at this point, he's big and can maul but he flat out misses too many blocks. This entire season has been a study in how to blow a twist stunt and he is offender #1 (Spriggs might be 2, Taylor 3).

SPRIGGS™ continues to perplex. His pass blocking has picked up once he gets his hands on someone. He is using Bach's outside shoulder grab. But he blew an inside move by Beasley early in the game because he is worried about speed first. And his run blocking is iffy, he gets disengaged from too easily. Packers don't trust him as there were TEs and RBs on his side for a lot of the game. Some of that was worry about three missing starters, but its also been a theme in other games. He still needs to make a big leap.

[mraynrand]

I can't believe you outed Patler as Spiderman, Mr. Jameson.

My spellcheck is accommodated to all things Spiderman - I type 'wedding' and it checks to 'webbing'

Still, I see Patler more in the Stan Lee cameo role... :) sorry Parker!

[Patler]

Taylor missed all of the off season work due to ankle surgery. He was back for camp, but played in only the last preseason game.

[mraynrand]

Taylor missed all of the off season work due to ankle surgery. He was back for camp, but played in only the last preseason game.

That means maybe there is hope. Recalling one of the most pleasantly surprising things last year was when he slid out to tackle and was reasonably effective.

[pbmax]

That means maybe there is hope. Recalling one of the most pleasantly surprising things last year was when he slid out to tackle and was reasonably effective.

Yep. Seemed like one of those things that sounded good on paper but wouldn't last long in the game.

[texaspackerbacker]

My spellcheck is accommodated to all things Spiderman - I type 'wedding' and it checks to 'webbing'

Still, I see Patler more in the Stan Lee cameo role... :) sorry Parker!

Why do you even think you need spellcheck? I don't use it, and you're smarter than I am, aren't you? (see, I can be sarcastic too hahahaha)

[Cheesehead Craig]

My spellcheck is accommodated to all things Spiderman - I type 'wedding' and it checks to 'webbing'

Still, I see Patler more in the Stan Lee cameo role... :) sorry Parker!

Excelsior!

[mraynrand]

Why do you even think you need spellcheck? I don't use it, and you're smarter than I am, aren't you? (see, I can be sarcastic too hahahaha)

I guess the default is 'on' and I never turned it off

[mraynrand]

Excelsior!

Nuff said!

[Patler]

My spellcheck is accommodated to all things Spiderman - I type 'wedding' and it checks to 'webbing'

Still, I see Patler more in the Stan Lee cameo role... :) sorry Parker!

I have no idea who/what that is. should I feel insulted or honored? :grin:

[mraynrand]

I have no idea who/what that is. should I feel insulted or honored? :grin:

Feel good that you didn't waste time following fictional superheroes wearing silly tights.

[Patler]

Back to the subject, I find the Siragusa signing very interesting. He was a 4th round pick in 2017 who missed all season with torn ACL, MCL and PCL in camp. Second surgery this off season ruined chances for off season work. Reportedly was still recovering during this year's camp, and was waived injured, then signed to practice squad by the Ravens.

If Madison returns, the Packers will have two decent prospects at guard, neither of whom has gotten his career started as he would have liked.

[texaspackerbacker]

Is there any reason to think Madison had a change of heart and wants to play in the NFL?

[Patler]

Is there any reason to think Madison had a change of heart and wants to play in the NFL?

His agent has said he intends to play again. The Packers have said they expect him to, and fully support him in his reasons for not reporting this year.

[mraynrand]

His agent has said he intends to play again. The Packers have said they expect him to, and fully support him in his reasons for not reporting this year.

I looked less than a month ago and saw nothing. Hope to see the guy in camp next year. I thought he had good feet in pass pro, which is all his college team did. I think they ran the ball four times his entire senior year.

[Pugger]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-offensive-linemen-of-the-2018-nfl-season

[mraynrand]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-offensive-linemen-of-the-2018-nfl-season

Kinda tells you what you knew going in - The good offensive teams have great LT pass pro. Packers have two very good linemen, and three sacks of fertilizer in uniform.

[Pugger]

Kinda tells you what you knew going in - The good offensive teams have great LT pass pro. Packers have two very good linemen, and three sacks of fertilizer in uniform.

I don't know if I'd call Bulaga fertilizer. When healthy he's fine. His problem is staying on the field. Lane Taylor isn't terrible either. But we do need a RG and more depth on that line for sure.

[mraynrand]

I don't know if I'd call Bulaga fertilizer. When healthy he's fine. His problem is staying on the field. Lane Taylor isn't terrible either. But we do need a RG and more depth on that line for sure.

I want to agree with you but when exactly in recent memory has Bulaga been 'healthy?' :)

[mraynrand]

I don't know if I'd call Bulaga fertilizer.

Oh, but for the record, I was referring to SPRIGGS™ Taylor and whomever they toss in at RG. Taylor can be better than he is. Maybe he is Scotts premium winter fertilizer.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages-na.ssl-images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F515gWQqSAvL.jpg&f=1

[pbmax]

Hope SPRIGGS™ eternal!

[Bretsky]

I feel bad for Bulaga; he's a good player..really good. When healthy he's borderline pro bowl and he's played through some injuries and has been very loyal. But his body just seems to breakdown.

Sally Spriggs; he's not good. He's really not good.

[Joemailman]

I feel bad for Bulaga; he's a good player..really good. When healthy he's borderline pro bowl and he's played through some injuries and has been very loyal. But his body just seems to breakdown.

Sally Spriggs; he's not good. He's really not good.

Agree on both players. Bulaga was a starting RT in the Super Bowl as a 21 year old rookie. Spriggs can't be counted on in his 3rd year. The guy just has too many plays where he doesn't even slow down the guy he's blocking. If he was going to excel, I think we would have seen signs of it by now.

I still think they should consider moving Bulaga inside to Guard. The injuries have likely robbed him of lateral mobility which is more of a problem at Tackle than at Guard. With 3 picks in the top 50, time to draft his replacement at RT.

[Joemailman]

Back to the subject, I find the Siragusa signing very interesting. He was a 4th round pick in 2017 who missed all season with torn ACL, MCL and PCL in camp. Second surgery this off season ruined chances for off season work. Reportedly was still recovering during this year's camp, and was waived injured, then signed to practice squad by the Ravens.

If Madison returns, the Packers will have two decent prospects at guard, neither of whom has gotten his career started as he would have liked.

Joemailman, Bretsky and Deputy Nutz had the Packers taking Siragusa in the 2017 Packerrats Draft Contest. Better late than never I guess. http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?29652-Official-2017-Packerrats-Draft-Contest&highlight=

Siragusa should be a serious candidate for the RG position in camp next year.

[bobblehead]

Without a question the offensive line is a disaster. The Packers have a solid center in Linsley, a capable LT in Bacteria - when healthy - and absolutely nothing else. Taylor was a promising light last year, but he has regressed. Maybe he can be a long term backup at guard. Bulaga is done. McCray is stop gap at best. Bell is a non factor - he can't even jog 10 yards onto the field without suffering extreme exhaustion. Packers need to draft the best Tackle in the draft and solidify that spot for the rest of Rodgers' run. They need to draft at least one guard, more likely two, and bring in another, and bring in a tackle in FA who can back up both spots.

This is top priority because they have an aging QB, they have running backs who can run, but they can't protect the QB and can't run block worth crap. Solving the O line will protect the franchise and can help solve a lot of ills elsewhere by helping to establish an offense that can possess the ball.

I know people are looking at pass rush/LBs, a defensive back (Safety), TE, and maybe a WR, but they can't afford to get Rodgers killed and have such an inefficient offense because they have no line. Fixing that will help hide other cracks in the roster.

So, I'm not much of a college guy/draftnik. Who do people like as O-line prospects?

Last couple drafts were weak for OL, and that is showing now. We really needed to keep Tretter to play G. Biggest mistakes TT made were letting Tretter, Hyde and Hayward walk. These weren't bankbusting contracts.

[bobblehead]

I really believe, with hard work, Spriggs could become the next Breno Giacomini.

100% polar opposites. Breno was a physical beast with power to burn. His technique was absolute shit. Spriggs came in light and weak but had good feet and hands. He put on weight and his feet went to shit, but he is progressing at carrying the weight. Hopefully an offseason of adding STRENGTH instead of weight will bring him full course.

[bobblehead]

Off topic:

What if there is a top QB prospect available when Guts is on the board? Does history rhyme the way George Lucas says it does?

With Rodgers locked up you could take the guy, let him sit a year and then hopefully get a bounty for rodgers.

[bobblehead]

it was a trick question

I SWITCHED THE GLASSES WHEN YOU WEREN'T LOOKING!!!!

[bobblehead]

Why do you even think you need spellcheck? I don't use it, and you're smarter than I am, aren't you? (see, I can be sarcastic too hahahaha)

But you two, make mistakes that spell check doesn't catch!

[mraynrand]

100% polar opposites. Breno was a physical beast with power to burn. His technique was absolute shit. Spriggs came in light and weak but had good feet and hands. He put on weight and his feet went to shit, but he is progressing at carrying the weight. Hopefully an offseason of adding STRENGTH instead of weight will bring him full course.

I meant career path

[pbmax]

I have thought about it and I agree, OL is the top priority in whatever manner Gute wants to address it.

As acute as the need for pass rush is, they need to get Rodgers comfortable again in the pocket. Need a lineman in the 2nd and 4th. And another Tauscher in the 7th wouldn't hurt.

And by this suggestion, I am hoping Gute ignores me, signs a FA guard and takes a tackle in the 3rd. Because BPA is the only way.

[call_me_ishmael]

PB, that's why I'm sort of hoping/thinking that they address pass rusher with the premier first pick, then trade the second pick to gain a little draft capital and turn over more of the roster.

If they could trade the last pick in the first round for a mid-second and mid-third, I would probably do it. That way they can take a few more big cuts and hope they connect with one.

[run pMc]

Back to the subject, I find the Siragusa signing very interesting. He was a 4th round pick in 2017 who missed all season with torn ACL, MCL and PCL in camp. Second surgery this off season ruined chances for off season work. Reportedly was still recovering during this year's camp, and was waived injured, then signed to practice squad by the Ravens.

If Madison returns, the Packers will have two decent prospects at guard, neither of whom has gotten his career started as he would have liked.

Agree -- the Siragusa signing feels like it's to develop him over the offseason. I imagine it takes some time (if ever) to recover from a full knee blowout.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-scouting-report-nico-siragusa-g-san-diego-state

If Madison shows up, he and Siragusa would add some real competition to the OL at G, but they will still need to add a true tackle via the draft.

[pbmax]

PB, that's why I'm sort of hoping/thinking that they address pass rusher with the premier first pick, then trade the second pick to gain a little draft capital and turn over more of the roster.

If they could trade the last pick in the first round for a mid-second and mid-third, I would probably do it. That way they can take a few more big cuts and hope they connect with one.

Other than QB, pass rusher is the biggest bust to hit ratio in the first round. Makes me nervous to target them.

[Deputy Nutz]

I feel like you can draft for depth in 2019 and spend some money if free agency to get a starting right tackle and a guard. The Packers offensive line seems a bit injury prone. Bulaga is so damaged at this point that I would like to see him retire before he gets both legs amputated right above the knee. They need an overhaul, keep the left tackle and the center and a couple of other pieces but spend some money in FA and draft mid round guys to develop.

[Deputy Nutz]

Other than QB, pass rusher is the biggest bust to hit ratio in the first round. Makes me nervous to target them.

What are your feelings on drafting a middle linebacker?

[mraynrand]

What are your feelings on drafting a middle linebacker?

How many picks did Thompson waste trying to draft his son at LB?

[Deputy Nutz]

How many picks did Thompson waste trying to draft his son at LB?

12

[bobblehead]

I have thought about it and I agree, OL is the top priority in whatever manner Gute wants to address it.

As acute as the need for pass rush is, they need to get Rodgers comfortable again in the pocket. Need a lineman in the 2nd and 4th. And another Tauscher in the 7th wouldn't hurt.

And by this suggestion, I am hoping Gute ignores me, signs a FA guard and takes a tackle in the 3rd. Because BPA is the only way.

Signing Iupati for a 3 year deal and then drafting a ready to play RT (or the still possibility Spriggs gains enough strength to go with the weight) would solve a lot of problems fast. As would Bulaga sticking around and putting in a relatively healthy season.

The OL was/is horrible, but it can be repaired pretty quick with one key signing and one of a few things going right.

As I said in another thread I can't peg ONE priority. We need to catch lucky in several spots to turn it around. Too many to expect it in one season. We also need OLB help, S help and WR help. Oh, almost forgot, we have the worst TE group in football, although after seeing Ben Watson look like Keith Jackson I'm leaning towards MM/ARod don't know how to use a TE.

[bobblehead]

What are your feelings on drafting a middle linebacker?

My dream scenario would be convincing Clay that he can regain notoriety at ILB if he took a reasonable offer and would play the position.

[pbmax]

What are your feelings on drafting a middle linebacker?

That is the conundrum. Safer pick early, but I am not sure how much marginal improvement you get going from Martinez to better testing rookie. Later round guys probably all play like Martinez.

I think coverage/speed guy to fill the hole that Burks and Jones have not filled is an area that could be improved dramatically. Of course, if they do develop, you missed a shot to fill another hole.

If they find a do everything guy like Kuechly/Davis, Deion Jones or Shazier, then I'd be fine with it in the first round. Easier to project this position I feel.

[pbmax]

My dream scenario would be convincing Clay that he can regain notoriety at ILB if he took a reasonable offer and would play the position.

Have to be early downs there. He is not so bendy these days and looked like an old man trying to change direction chasing route runners this year.

[run pMc]

You don't spend a high pick on an MLB unless he's a real difference maker and can play 3 or 4 downs.

What athleticism Clay had as a youngster has faded, he's all effort now. Not a bad player to have but you either have to limit his snaps outside or talk him into moving inside. Most likely is a hybrid where you played him something like 20 snaps outside as a DPR and maybe 10 inside, but Gute will have to find 1 if not 2 outside pass rushers who can get about 12-15 sacks total. Then with Clay and Fackrell as part of a rotation that could be workable, but there's gotta be quality ahead of them.

Maybe Pettine continues to rely on CB/S blitzes off the edge and DL pass rush to manufacture pressure...or the next coach switches to a 4-3. Who knows, but the LB corps is not fearsome to OC's.

[bobblehead]

Have to be early downs there. He is not so bendy these days and looked like an old man trying to change direction chasing route runners this year.

He is instinctive enough to fill a zone and be effective with his motor.

[mraynrand]

You don't spend a high pick on an MLB unless he's a real difference maker and can play 3 or 4 downs.

yep

[pbmax]

He is instinctive enough to fill a zone and be effective with his motor.

The irony is that he is now with speed and quickness he is mostly suited to be a WILL in a 4-3

[call_me_ishmael]

Not so sure I agree, MLB is now a premier position. Everybody wants a fast backer that can play the run and cover, but there are not very many of them.

[Deputy Nutz]

Other than QB, pass rusher is the biggest bust to hit ratio in the first round. Makes me nervous to target them.

I don't think you draft to replace Martinez, my point is that teams go high in the first round with pass rushers because they are willing to take that high risk on the potential the pass rusher will produce. In reality the game comes down to cover guys and pass rush on defense. Its nice to have interior run defenders but at the end of the season NFL defense will make their nut by slowing down the passing game of opposing offenses. So I was sort of being sarcastic about drafting a middle linebacker in the first round. You back fill your draft board will interior run defenders and draft in the first couple of rounds on pass rush and DBs.

[Deputy Nutz]

Also, Fuck Clay Matthews the guy is a tool and you have all believed the hype on him for too many years. He was a poor man's Kevin Greene.

[pbmax]

I don't think you draft to replace Martinez, my point is that teams go high in the first round with pass rushers because they are willing to take that high risk on the potential the pass rusher will produce. In reality the game comes down to cover guys and pass rush on defense. Its nice to have interior run defenders but at the end of the season NFL defense will make their nut by slowing down the passing game of opposing offenses. So I was sort of being sarcastic about drafting a middle linebacker in the first round. You back fill your draft board will interior run defenders and draft in the first couple of rounds on pass rush and DBs.

No, I got you.

As you suggest, I have no good answer for the best time to target a pass rusher if its not early. But so many teams find pass rushers elsewhere that its maddening the Packers haven't since KGB.

The only answer to the pass rush conundrum is to tank and pick in the Top 5 or 10. Not sure the Packers get there this year.

[mraynrand]

Also, Fuck Clay Matthews the guy is a tool and you have all believed the hype on him for too many years. He was a poor man's Kevin Greene.

Have a pistachio

[bobblehead]

Also, Fuck Clay Matthews the guy is a tool and you have all believed the hype on him for too many years. He was a poor man's Kevin Greene.

There is at least one poster here that has said he was over rated long before it was cool to say so....in fact that person said Clay would never have as many sacks in a season as Kampman did twice.

[mraynrand]

There is at least one poster here that has said he was over rated long before it was cool to say so....in fact that person said Clay would never have as many sacks in a season as Kampman did twice.

I also remember the part where you said his play we drop off a cliff after he got busted for juicing.

[Pugger]

I also remember the part where you said his play we drop off a cliff after he got busted for juicing.

I'm not the biggest Clay fan around but when did he get busted for juicing?

[mraynrand]

I'm not the biggest Clay fan around but when did he get busted for juicing?

suspected, along with Neal, Peppers, Manning.

It was reported by Al Jazeera so it must be true.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-linebackers-peds-20160815-snap-story.html

[bobblehead]

I also remember the part where you said his play we drop off a cliff after he got busted for juicing.

Actually you do not. I NEVER once said that.

[bobblehead]

I have far too much understanding for how juicing works. You don't lose all the gains. I also knew what kind of motor he had. I was probably the first poster on this board to say we needed to move him to ILB (and first to say Hyde was a safety)

[Rutnstrut]

I have been on the cut/trade Clay train for a long time. I think he has played pretty decent this year though. Plus the big thing is he seems to have gotten over his chronic injuries. IF they can talk him into taking a pay cut, I say keep him.

[mraynrand]

Actually you do not. I NEVER once said that.

no kidding.

[mraynrand]

I have far too much understanding for how juicing works. You don't lose all the gains. I also knew what kind of motor he had. I was probably the first poster on this board to say we needed to move him to ILB (and first to say Hyde was a safety)

I'm mostly joking about the juicing. Clay is in his thirties now. That more than anything is responsible for any drop off.

[bobblehead]

I still like clay for what he is. A high motor football player with above average talent. That makes him top 10 at LB when healthy AND USED PROPERLY. I'd love him back for half the price and the agreement that he will play all over and almost never line up on the edge and try to beat a tackle.

[mraynrand]

...and almost never line up on the edge and try to beat a tackle.

I've been begging for an end to this for most of his career. At the very least against most LTs - total waste of his talent.

[pbmax]

Actually you do not. I NEVER once said that.

Some people say ...

Seriously, many have implied it over the years. I'd look it up but its Christmas so I just want to be happy he hustles unlike most on defense.