Pettine

[texaspackerbacker]

Do we already have a thread on him? I really don't give a damn - and I really wouldn't give a damn if he isn't the D Coordinator next season. It always irked me that there was so much pissing and moaning about Capers. Well ya'all pissers and moaners got rid of him, and is our D better? the same? or worse? I'd say worse. Part of that, of course, is still personnel, but I really haven't noticed anything creative or praiseworthy from Pettine's schemes - less so even than the much maligned Capers.

[Pugger]

I thought I saw improvement in our defense under Pettine until our starters dropping like flies this year.

[ND72]

local sports radio last year said "if you think it's scheme, it's Capers. If you think it's players, it's Thompson."

I think it was both. And we have more work today on the player part before we can see substantial improvement.

[red]

defense is definitely better, but not by enough

to me it looked too much like the capers system, just without all the confusion in the secondary on every single play

[red]

local sports radio last year said "if you think it's scheme, it's Capers. If you think it's players, it's Thompson."

I think it was both. And we have more work today on the player part before we can see substantial improvement.

defense is 4 lines. the line, the line backers the corners and the safeties

we currently have no starters at LB, other then the white mexican, and no starting safeties

thats 5 starters we have to find for next season on defense

[QBME]

Fer cryin' out loud. The Packers had 4 - freakin' 4 - opening day defensive starters beginning the game today ( zero on the D Line). Pettine has done an outstanding job. Go shovel snow.

[yetisnowman]

^^^^What QBME said. The Packers are average to below average statistically on defense. That's pretty damn good considering the injuries and general lack of personnel. Not to mention an offense that struggled to put drives together for long stretches of the season. I really didn't see a lot of schematic gaffes, just a coordinator trying his best to get stops with a roster full of JAGS and backups.

[Bretsky]

the majority of the problem goes to ThanksTed and that goes for last year as well.

And MM didn't help by pushing to get rid of a starter for Kizer

[pbmax]

Packers missed Randall after all :D

He might have outlasted Stubby if he could have avoided opening his yap at the end of the year.

[mraynrand]

Packers missed Randall after all :D

He might have outlasted Stubby if he could have avoided opening his yap at the end of the year.

Ankle biter had a rough outing today - at least the part I saw.

[Bretsky]

Packers missed Randall after all :D

He might have outlasted Stubby if he could have avoided opening his yap at the end of the year.

On ESPN 1070 last week they got into Packer Failures and noted how McCarthy always really liked Kizer and wanted GB to draft him had he feel a few picks later in round 2. They thought he could not get along with Randall and pushed Guter to make the deal

I have always thought he's the close of Hundley and neither of them were good enough.

I'd have preferred a 4th round draft pick for Randall...…….and probably would have just preferred keeping Randall and starting him

[The Shadow]

Fangio. Fangio. Fangio.

[ND72]

Fer cryin' out loud. The Packers had 4 - freakin' 4 - opening day defensive starters beginning the game today ( zero on the D Line). Pettine has done an outstanding job. Go shovel snow.


No i agree with this. I felt our defense was a lot more competitive but injuries just destroyed us. That and Brice can't cover or tackle and Dix was shitty. King shows he can play, but can't stay healthy. that's 3 DB starters. we have no pass rush, and had no starting DL guys.

[Carolina_Packer]

Pettine was bringing a knife to a gunfight pretty much every week. Gotta give him some credit. Gutekunst had inherited runners on base after Thomson walked the bases loaded.

[texaspackerbacker]

4 opening day starters? So who were the 7 that were gone? Clark and Daniels - the damage was pretty much done by the time they went down; Clinton-Dix - most of us saw that as no great loss; Perry - I'd say his replacements - Fackrell and Gilbert, were better than Perry even when not injured; Randall, did he start Week 1? - Alexander, Breeland, etc. were way better; Kevin King, did he start? - potential, but his play was no better than the replacements; Wilkerson? - no great loss, Lowery etc. played better; Did I leave anybody out? While the personnel was arguably pretty lame, it was no worse than at the start of the season and arguably better than what Capers had to compensate for.

I'd say Gutekunst did a fair to good job of getting players off the scrap heap, several of whom may contribute next season. As for Pettine, I say again, he was damn little or no improvement over Capers.

[mraynrand]

This is the opening day defensive starting lineup

Muhammad Wilkerson DE
Kenny Clark NT
Clay Matthews OLB
Nick Perry OLB
Blake Martinez ILB
Josh Jackson CB
Kevin King CB
Tramon Williams CB
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix S
Kentrell Brice S
Jermaine Whitehead S

[gbgary]

local sports radio last year said "if you think it's scheme, it's Capers. If you think it's players, it's Thompson."

I think it was both. And we have more work today on the player part before we can see substantial improvement.

yup. they're better because players are better and the scheme is better. they seemed to struggle in the first halves of most games but tightened things up in the second. i hope the new guy wants to keep Pettine but whatever. injuries took their toll and the results showed it. depth. not enough cap room for depth and that will continue. it's all about the starters and their health...on both sides of the ball. they need another starting corner and safety in the worst way. o-line needs the right side totally rebuilt and some depth acquired (if possible).

[pbmax]

He should be rehired simply because he seemed to solve most secondary communication problems.

[denverYooper]

He should be rehired simply because he seemed to solve most secondary communication problems.

And that with a revolving door of personnel.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I want Al Harris as the next Pack DC.

Pettine’s D is but a carbon copy of Capers. Anyone who disagrees, ask “Marty” Ice (Stafford).

[mmmdk]

I've forgotten; what's a defense? ;-)

[SavedByGrace]

local sports radio last year said "if you think it's scheme, it's Capers. If you think it's players, it's Thompson."

I think it was both. And we have more work today on the player part before we can see substantial improvement.

Boom.

That being said, our scheme didn't look any "sexier."

[pbmax]

I want Al Harris as the next Pack DC.

Pettine’s D is but a carbon copy of Capers. Anyone who disagrees, ask “Marty” Ice (Stafford).

Have you seen the Chiefs D this year?

I am actually asking; the Hunt family is offering a reward.

[Rutnstrut]

Defense is better overall. However the fundamentals are still sloppy as hell.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Have you seen the Chiefs D this year?

I am actually asking; the Hunt family is offering a reward.

boycotting the NFL so, no, I have not once watched an Amerikan Indian Warriors game this season. Mahomes sure as fuck looks Caucasiod in full armor from the few highlights I saw on the YouTube.

Harris doesn’t call plays in KC, but I’m pretty sure their DBs look fine and dandy like ole Al himself when he was a shutdown corner for the Pack.

I would be totally fine and dandy if Marcia Marcia hires ole Al to be the next HC.

[Pugger]

Packers missed Randall after all :D

He might have outlasted Stubby if he could have avoided opening his yap at the end of the year.

Of course in Cleveland Randall isn't playing out of position...

[Pugger]

This is the opening day defensive starting lineup

Muhammad Wilkerson DE
Kenny Clark NT
Clay Matthews OLB
Nick Perry OLB
Blake Martinez ILB
Josh Jackson CB
Kevin King CB
Tramon Williams CB
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix S
Kentrell Brice S
Jermaine Whitehead S

Plus we lost Jake Ryan to IR before the season started. In that last game against Detroit it resembled a preseason game. I didn't recognize half of the players out there.

[Pugger]

Have you seen the Chiefs D this year?

I am actually asking; the Hunt family is offering a reward.

KC's defense isn't stellar by any means. The reason they are winning is their offense is explosive.

[pbmax]

Defense is better overall. However the fundamentals are still sloppy as hell.

This raises an interesting point and one that will be easier to break down after the new coach has been in GB for a while.

Every coach does things differently. McCarthy, both originally and in response to the 2011 CBA never did a tremendous amount of individual drill work. He also did not repeat plays until the play was run correctly for the most part (it did happen, but not the norm).

The individual drill thing is hard to read but McGinn used to be apoplectic that the Packers spent far less time under McCarthy than Sherman doing drills, especially after a sloppy performance. Its not that they did not do them, but that they were not a focus as much as they were under PSL. Its impossible to put this in any context because we lack numbers and have only observations from long ago, but I have always wondered if this cost players who needed to develop physically and technique wise after being drafted. Its also possible PSL was already an anachronism while he was doing drills that lasted forever. The one specific complaint I remember is that McCarthy would not let drills run long to complete some sequence or teaching point. He wanted everything done on time and at speed to help with conditioning, which was never a separate part of his camp practices (they did not run gassers before or after practice). He wanted necessary corrections to be done during position group meetings.

The other thing is repeating plays in 7 on 7 or 11 on 11 drills or scrimmages. Many coaches do/did this (Holmgren) but it can lead to long practices and interfere with the speed of the practice as you correct on the field. McCarthy would rather pull players to correct than re-run the play. Pull the offender, substitute in, correct behind the LOS so practice can continue.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Thought Pettine did a great job this year. Defense is not the dumpster fire it was under Capers. It's not great, but moving in the right direction.

[Rutnstrut]

This raises an interesting point and one that will be easier to break down after the new coach has been in GB for a while.

Every coach does things differently. McCarthy, both originally and in response to the 2011 CBA never did a tremendous amount of individual drill work. He also did not repeat plays until the play was run correctly for the most part (it did happen, but not the norm).

The individual drill thing is hard to read but McGinn used to be apoplectic that the Packers spent far less time under McCarthy than Sherman doing drills, especially after a sloppy performance. Its not that they did not do them, but that they were not a focus as much as they were under PSL. Its impossible to put this in any context because we lack numbers and have only observations from long ago, but I have always wondered if this cost players who needed to develop physically and technique wise after being drafted. Its also possible PSL was already an anachronism while he was doing drills that lasted forever. The one specific complaint I remember is that McCarthy would not let drills run long to complete some sequence or teaching point. He wanted everything done on time and at speed to help with conditioning, which was never a separate part of his camp practices (they did not run gassers before or after practice). He wanted necessary corrections to be done during position group meetings.

The other thing is repeating plays in 7 on 7 or 11 on 11 drills or scrimmages. Many coaches do/did this (Holmgren) but it can lead to long practices and interfere with the speed of the practice as you correct on the field. McCarthy would rather pull players to correct than re-run the play. Pull the offender, substitute in, correct behind the LOS so practice can continue.



So you are saying rather than fix the problem, stubby would avoid it to keep practice flowing? If so, that alone says a lot about what kind of idiot he is.

[pbmax]

So you are saying rather than fix the problem, stubby would avoid it to keep practice flowing? If so, that alone says a lot about what kind of idiot he is.

No, they fixed the problem in meetings and in film. They did not stop practice to get one player on the same page as the rest. They would sub him out. I think this dynamic speaks to how talented players (Bishop for instance) stayed in reserve roles longer than their athleticism would have predicted. The effect was to put fundamentally sound players out there ahead of general athletes.

The drill thing has always intrigued me. I wonder if that affects tackling or zone defense. But the complaints have died away, especially after 2011. I suspect Sherm was on the backside of this trend and M3 was on the front of the wave to changing practice habits.

[Rutnstrut]

No, they fixed the problem in meetings and in film. They did not stop practice to get one player on the same page as the rest. They would sub him out. I think this dynamic speaks to how talented players (Bishop for instance) stayed in reserve roles longer than their athleticism would have predicted. The effect was to put fundamentally sound players out there ahead of general athletes.

The drill thing has always intrigued me. I wonder if that affects tackling or zone defense. But the complaints have died away, especially after 2011. I suspect Sherm was on the backside of this trend and M3 was on the front of the wave to changing practice habits.

Except that way of "fixing" the problem did not seem effective. Hence stubby always saying we'll fix that.

[Pugger]

Except that way of "fixing" the problem did not seem effective. Hence stubby always saying we'll fix that.

And he never did and now is job hunting. I heard the Jets are interested.

[pbmax]

Except that way of "fixing" the problem did not seem effective. Hence stubby always saying we'll fix that.

There definitely were consistent themes in his tenure. Tackling. ST. Lack of late game adjustments.

That is why a new regime will be interesting to watch.

McCarthy was an improvement over Sherman is the managing personalities and emotions of the season department. His passing game was more advanced too. But he and Ted never had quite that running game.

[bobblehead]

Do we already have a thread on him? I really don't give a damn - and I really wouldn't give a damn if he isn't the D Coordinator next season. It always irked me that there was so much pissing and moaning about Capers. Well ya'all pissers and moaners got rid of him, and is our D better? the same? or worse? I'd say worse. Part of that, of course, is still personnel, but I really haven't noticed anything creative or praiseworthy from Pettine's schemes - less so even than the much maligned Capers.

Was markedly better until we were seriously injured and they started testing all the young guys.

[bobblehead]

When they stopped the bears with a coverage sack...when they stopped the rams twice on the same drive....that wasn't something capers D had done since 2010.

[bobblehead]

defense is 4 lines. the line, the line backers the corners and the safeties

we currently have no starters at LB, other then the white mexican, and no starting safeties

thats 5 starters we have to find for next season on defense

I'll be starting an "optimism/pessimism" thread for each position group after the superbowl, but a quick preview. Optimism at Safety could be converting Jackson to S, Keeping TWill there for another year and it suddenly looks a lot better. Pessimism is that Jackson is a flop, Twill suddenly looks old and we don't bring in anyone of consequence to the group.