2019 Free Agency Thread

[call_me_ishmael]

Welcome to the official free agency thread. Discuss free agency here.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1081235997470408704

They gone.

[Bretsky]

https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1081235997470408704

They gone.

HARVEY WALLBANGERS HAD A GREAT POST outlining his ideal offseason with some names. Sombody should find it and post it in here.

I'd love to see others with specific wishlists. I'm not there yet but ideally to me in free agency we get two of the following three:

A number 2 WR or a starting TE (not sure if the latter can be found though)
A starting OG
and some depth at LB

Obviously would love a pass rusher but they are hard to come by

[call_me_ishmael]

Harvey's off-season was fantastic, I agree. I believe it was signing Earl Thomas, Anthony Barr and some veteran OL, then drafting a pass rusher high. I am somewhat convinced Polite is the real deal and would be a tremendous value at 12. I don't watch a lot of football but in the highlights I've seen I am convinced that he is bendy enough to do well in the NFL. He's bendy like Harold Landry but seems a little bit bigger and maybe faster too.

[Bretsky]

KUDOS AGAIN TO HARVEY

Dream Offseason For Me

Sign WR Golden Tate.
Sign OLB Anthony Barr.
Sign S Earl Thomas or Landon Collins.
Draft OLB in 1st round.
Draft OG in 2nd-4th round.
Draft TE in 2nd-4th round.
Best player available with other 1st round pick. I'd use it at a premium position (OT, CB, OLB, DL, maybe WR).

[texaspackerbacker]

We certainly do NOT need another WR, especially an old plug like Tate. Barr would be a good idea if it's determined that he is still close enough to his prime. I don't think we need both him and a 1st round OLB, though. Landon Collins probably would be good. I tend to think Earl Thomas doesn't have much left, though. Draft OG in 2nd-4th round and a TE in 2nd-4th round is about right. I'd even take two O Linemen in that range or even risk using our first round pick for one (a change from what I wrote previously). Our late first round pick would be about right for taking a top level ILB. And at some point, maybe as high as 5th or 6th, I want a kicker drafted - Crosby costs too much for too little quality.

[Bretsky]

IMO we got Devante Adams and a bunch of #3-#5 WR's.
The guy who looks like he could develop into a #2 in Scandling but I don't think he's ready yet.

[beveaux1]

IMO we got Devante Adams and a bunch of #3-#5 WR's.
The guy who looks like he could develop into a #2 in Scandling but I don't think he's ready yet.

I agree with this but who we need depends on the scheme the new coach will use. If our scheme is a derivative of the WCO, we would need a veteran WR versed in that type of offense
If McDaniel or someone like him becomes our new HC and uses a different scheme perhaps a drafted 2nd round WR could immediately play without the 3 or 4 year learning curve. The WRs in JMs scheme are generally
smaller and quicker than our bevy of tall, fairly green late round receivers.

[woodbuck27]

HARVEY WALLBANGERS HAD A GREAT POST outlining his ideal offseason with some names. Sombody should find it and post it in here.

I'd love to see others with specific wishlists. I'm not there yet but ideally to me in free agency we get two of the following three:

A number 2 WR or a starting TE (not sure if the latter can be found though)
A starting OG
and some depth at LB

Obviously would love a pass rusher but they are hard to come by

IMO your 'on point' with your post B.

A.)The Packers need a need a solid NO. 2 WR as a hjigh priority. It's 'in my view of it all' difficult to gain access to the Aaron Rodgers WR pecking order.

B.) Add a decent all round TE.

C.) We need to strengthen the RHS of the OL.

D. At Linebacker (questions):

It will be interesting how The GM and company handle the contracts of Cobb, Clay Matthews and Nick Perry. That will set the tone or the blue print for our hopefully solid Off Season.

[woodbuck27]

KUDOS AGAIN TO HARVEY

Dream Offseason For Me

Sign WR Golden Tate.
Sign OLB Anthony Barr.
Sign S Earl Thomas or Landon Collins.
Draft OLB in 1st round.
Draft OG in 2nd-4th round.
Draft TE in 2nd-4th round.
Best player available with other 1st round pick. I'd use it at a premium position (OT, CB, OLB, DL, maybe WR).

Yum Yum !

[red]

we do need a #2 wr

even if one of the two rookies takes the next step, you're still looking at 2 more season before they are up to their full potential. we need a vet that can play next season

now i haven't looked at who might be available or not, so some of this might not be realistic

i would like to add 1 vet OG. do we need 2 guards or just 1? if we ned 2, i'd like to draft another

we need a RT, either a high draft pick or quality signing

we need 2 starting OLBs. 1 nice free agent and a top pick

we need 2 starting safeties. either top pick and free agent, or both free agents

i don't care about TE's, we don't know how to use them. unless the new coach knows how to use them, we can just keep lewis or someone else to block and catch 1 or 2 balls a game

we still need an ILB, a playmaker to team up with martinez. sign a vet

[Bretsky]

I know it would never happen, and he's probably ready to retire, but I'd love to match a pitch for Larry Fitzgerald to be our #2 WR. He's still performing good enough to look dam good with AROD

[denverYooper]

MVS and ESB can be #2s. If you can get a stud WR to go with Adams go for it. Else, they have a lot of other positions that need upgrading.

[red]

MVS and ESB can be #2s. If you can get a stud WR to go with Adams go for it. Else, they have a lot of other positions that need upgrading.

i think they might be able to be #2s in another year or 2, but not next year

takes about 3 years for even the best WR prospects to hit their potential

thats why we need to get a vet for the #2

[run pMc]

Assuming you get them on team-friendly contracts:
Bring back Cobb as your PR and #4 WR. Cobb has worked with Rodgers and he's probably as good as Tate.
Bring back Clay as your ILB.

Sign 2 OL to provide experience and competition.

Release Perry and Graham.

[pbmax]

i think they might be able to be #2s in another year or 2, but not next year

takes about 3 years for even the best WR prospects to hit their potential

thats why we need to get a vet for the #2

I could see a FA if they don't want more youth from the draft. But that is a one year deal for me, they need an influx of young talent there so the Jordy/Cobb situation doesn't happen again. They got caught short.

[red]

I could see a FA if they don't want more youth from the draft. But that is a one year deal for me, they need an influx of young talent there so the Jordy/Cobb situation doesn't happen again. They got caught short.

well thats just it. you draft another guy to be the #2 and you have to wait 2 to 3 years for him to get to that level

[beveaux1]

well thats just it. you draft another guy to be the #2 and you have to wait 2 to 3 years for him to get to that level

And if you don't and the late draft choices don't develop into at least a #2, you're running around in circles chasing your tail.

One thing that I'm concerned about: When Nelson was drafted, Rodgers had good things to say about him during his first and 2nd year, same with Cobb and Adams...especially Adams.
Same with Allison as an undrafted rookie and as a 2nd year player.

Haven't seen much comment from him about any of our rookies. Reminds me of Janis and Davis

[pbmax]

Strong point from Beveaux:

Will M4 talk about second year jumps in just first offseason?

[Smidgeon]

And if you don't and the late draft choices don't develop into at least a #2, you're running around in circles chasing your tail.

One thing that I'm concerned about: When Nelson was drafted, Rodgers had good things to say about him during his first and 2nd year, same with Cobb and Adams...especially Adams.
Same with Allison as an undrafted rookie and as a 2nd year player.

Haven't seen much comment from him about any of our rookies. Reminds me of Janis and Davis

Pretty sure Rodgers has had (faint) praise for the two rookies. But I'd wait until this offseason before saying he never did. It was a bad year for him too, and I honestly do expect a second year jump for all three of the rookies. Still holding out hope for J'Moooore.

[Joemailman]

Report that Chiefs are unlikely to use franchise tag on OLB Dee Ford.


Jason La Canfora of CBS Sports tweets that Kansas City is leaning against using the franchise tag on the 2014 first-round pick, which will only help Ford’s earning potential, especially given that the free agent market is largely bereft of game-changing pass rushers.

Ford missed much of 2017 with an injury, but bounced back this season with a 13-sack performance.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/marxistfilm/status/1084925155271430145

There is no player I want more than Earl Thomas. Going to be expensive but he's HOF good.

[texaspackerbacker]

Thomas was fading when he played for Seattle, and now he's coming off a serious injury. Landon Collins seems like a better choice to me (yeah, I know he is coming off an injury too).

[call_me_ishmael]

There is a zero percent chance in my opinion that Landon Collins is 75% the player that Earl Thomas is. One is a once-every-ten-years player, the other have 2-3 similar every year.

[mraynrand]

There is a zero percent chance in my opinion that Landon Collins is 75% the player that Earl Thomas is. One is a once-every-ten-years player, the other have 2-3 similar every year.

I agree on Thomas being a special talent, but I wonder whether he's all hit out. He's a total jackhammer but he's missed games the past three seasons.

[pbmax]

I agree on Thomas being a special talent, but I wonder whether he's all hit out. He's a total jackhammer but he's missed games the past three seasons.

Plus what made him extra special was his speed. You'd almost think that would be the first to go.

[Rutnstrut]

There is a zero percent chance in my opinion that Landon Collins is 75% the player that Earl Thomas is. One is a once-every-ten-years player, the other have 2-3 similar every year.



Thomas has been slowing down for 3 years. But maybe they should get him and keep Clay so they can get a start on the IR list. You have to have that built in excuse of all the injuries.

[mraynrand]

Thomas has been slowing down for 3 years. But maybe they should get him and keep Clay so they can get a start on the IR list. You have to have that built in excuse of all the injuries.

:)

[pbmax]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001011078/article/top-25-nfl-free-agents-of-2019-defenders-dominate-rankings

Defense dominates the list.

1, DeMarcus Lawrence, DE
Cowboys, Don't worry about his sack number dropping to 10.5. Lawrence backed up his breakout 2017 (14.5 sacks) with another season as a top-five pass rusher, solidifying his place as one of the league's best players.

2, Le'Veon Bell, RB, Steelers
This ranking isn't a prediction of how much guaranteed money Bell will earn. It's a reflection of his status as one of the transcendent players this century at his position -- and the fact that he's still just 26 years old.

3, Jadeveon Clowney, OL, Texans
Using the franchise tag to retain Clowney makes too much sense for Houston, even if Clowney won't be thrilled about it.

4, Grady Jarrett, DT, Falcons
A 25-year-old game-wrecker from the interior who has improved every year. There's little chance the Falcons will let Jarrett get away.

5, Trey Flowers, DE, Patriots
While Flowers isn't a prototypical pure pass rusher from the outside, he can do everything well from a variety of positions, the perfect Swiss Army Knife for a modern defense. And he's already been the most disruptive presence on a Super Bowl championship team.

6, Earl Thomas, S, Seahawks
Thomas would be even higher on this list if not for two of his previous three seasons being marred by injury. He has maintained his high level of play as a potential future Hall of Famer and isn't yet 30 years old.

7, Dee Ford, OLB, Chiefs
At a position where speed kills, Ford's first step is among the best in football. The Chiefs might use the franchise tag on him to make sure his monster breakout season can be repeated.

8, Frank Clark, DE, Seahawks
In many years, Clark would be the best pass rusher available. He isn't as complete a player as the guys above, but 32 sacks and 66 QB hits over the last three years speaks for itself.

9, Landon Collins, S, Giants
Collins received some Defensive Player of the Year consideration in 2016, but his hard-hitting style has made less of an impact lately. And his 2018 campaign ended after Week 13, when he hit IR and underwent shoulder surgery.

10, C.J. Mosley, LB, Ravens
Inside linebackers don't get paid in free agency, although Mosley could be an exception. A four-time Pro Bowler, Mosley is known for his smarts and his leadership.

11, Anthony Barr, LB, Vikings
The skill set and splash plays didn't always add up to excellent overall production, although his contract year went well. It's a bit of a concern that a great defensive coach like Mike Zimmer didn't consistently get more out of him.

12, Sheldon Richardson, DT, Vikings
Richardson started out his season like a man on fire before settling into another campaign that made his employers probably want just a little bit more. He's been stuck on the "prove-it contract" cycle for years.

13, Ronald Darby, CB, Eagles
A torn ACL will hurt Darby's value, but he's still the class of a soft cornerback crop of free agents.

14, Tyrann Mathieu, S, Texans
It's unclear why safeties like Honey Badger didn't get paid well last offseason. There's an even better crop of free agents at the position this time around.

15, Lamarcus Joyner, S, Rams
The Rams valued Joyner enough to use the franchise tag on him last year. There just aren't enough tough, versatile safeties who can cover slot receivers around.

16, Teddy Bridgewater, QB, Saints
Teddy's underwhelming Week 17 start was more about a rag-tag backup Saints offensive line that didn't protect Bridgewater than it was about anything else. He showed enough in the 2018 preseason to compete for a starting job somewhere.

17, Preston Smith, LB, Redskins
If everyone thinks Smith is underrated, is he still underrated? Pro Football Focus' No. 8-ranked 3-4 outside linebacker in 2018 should get the contract of someone rated quite highly.

18, Ndamukong Suh, DT, Rams
If he plays another game or two like the one he did in the Wild Card Round, Suh's price tag could skyrocket.

19, K.J. Wright, LB, Seahawks
Instinctive as a run-stopper and excellent in coverage, Wright looked good late in the season after missing 11 games with a lingering knee injury.

20, Za'Darius Smith, OLB, Ravens
PFF credited Smith with 10 sacks, 17 QB hits and 33 hurries in the regular season, which is monster production for someone with 690 snaps. He plays with laudable fury.

21, Ezekiel Ansah, DE, Lions
One of the toughest players to evaluate in free agency. The Lions spent hefty franchise-tag money on a guy with just 662 snaps combined over the last two years.

22, Daryl Williams, OT, Panthers
Good tackles are so hard to find in free agency that Williams, a second-team All Pro in 2017, should still inspire plenty of interest despite missing nearly all of this season with a knee injury.

23 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix ,S, Redskins
The Packers opinion of Clinton-Dix and his so-so time in Washington after being traded there by Green Bay this season might have him pegged as just an above-average starting safety, but that should be worth something on the open market.

24 Brandon Graham, DE, Eagles
This ranking may look disrespectful for a player of Graham's caliber, but the track record of betting on soon-to-be 31-year-old pass rushers in free agency is rough.

25 Matt Paradis, C, Broncos
He's consistently been one of the highest-graded centers in football since the Broncos selected him in the sixth round of the 2014 NFL Draft. He missed the last seven games of 2018 with a broken right fibula.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'd like to kick the tires on:

1. Earl Thomas
2. Frank Clark (unlikely to be available IMO)
3. C.J. Mosley (If available, you pony up, bottom line)
4. Anthony Barr
5. K.J. Wright
6. Za'Darius Smith

Coming away with two of those players totally changes the trajectory of this team IMO. You do that, and you can draft another pass rusher at 12 (Polite) and then best available at the bottom of round 1. Boom, the team fortified a lot of positions right there.

[Joemailman]

What worries me about Thomas is he's twice in the last 3 years fractured his left leg. Coincidence, or is there something structurally wrong there? Giving him a lot of guaranteed money would be a big risk.

[Patler]

What worries me about Thomas is he's twice in the last 3 years fractured his left leg. Coincidence, or is there something structurally wrong there? Giving him a lot of guaranteed money would be a big risk.

Good point.

Earl Thomas has played 29 games the last three years (11, 14, 4).
Brian Bulaga has played 35 games (16, 5, 14).
Clay Matthews has played 42 games (12, 14, 16).

If we want to dump Matthews and Bulaga for availability, should we want to bring in Thomas? I know the game totals of players are dependent on when a year ending injuring occurs, but each Matthews and Bulaga has had a full 16 game season once in the last three years. Thomas has not. To Thomas' credit, prior to 2016 he was a 16 games/year guy every year. Matthews and Bulaga have had career long injury histories.

Interesting issue.

[pbmax]

Free Agency stinks.

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
Spoke with #Steelers S Morgan Burnett, who tells me he wants to be released from his deal before free agency. During his time in Pittsburgh, he felt he played out of position as a dime LB. Burnett, with 2 yrs left on his contract, wants a new start & a chance to play safety again

[Teamcheez1]

Interesting options at safety.

Earl Thomas or Morgan Burnett. Both are 30 years of age next season. That's assuming we would make a play for either of them or they would be interested in playing for GB.

[mraynrand]

Free Agency stinks.

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
Spoke with #Steelers S Morgan Burnett, who tells me he wants to be released from his deal before free agency. During his time in Pittsburgh, he felt he played out of position as a dime LB. Burnett, with 2 yrs left on his contract, wants a new start & a chance to play safety again

They seemingly wanted him to be Shazier on passing downs. He did not look comfortable at all.

[pbmax]

They seemingly wanted him to be Shazier on passing downs. He did not look comfortable at all.

Was it all that different than Nitro LB is Green Bay or is he just feeling his age?

[mraynrand]

Was it all that different than Nitro LB is Green Bay or is he just feeling his age?

Yeah, maybe age, but seemed more like a guy who wanted to tackle like a safety, not a LB. I saw a guy who couldn't shed blocks, didn't want to put his nose in there. Didn't watch enough to be certain this is the whole story.

[Bretsky]

Between a pass rusher, safety, WR, and OG it would be nice if we could go into the draft with 2 legit FA's to cover those needs.

[Joemailman]

Between a pass rusher, safety, WR, and OG it would be nice if we could go into the draft with 2 legit FA's to cover those needs.

What about Jared Cook at TE? :)

[mraynrand]

Was it all that different than Nitro LB is Green Bay or is he just feeling his age?

looked at a little bit of game at Baltimore. Burnett in a lot of man coverage versus TEs. He can run with them just fine, but did get an interference in end zone called because he didn't turn head. If he hasn't learned by now...

[pbmax]

looked at a little bit of game at Baltimore. Burnett in a lot of man coverage versus TEs. He can run with them just fine, but did get an interference in end zone called because he didn't turn head. If he hasn't learned by now...

Burnett's main talents were his brain and his willingness to tackle (even if he was terrible at angles or lost the taste for it later in his career).

I always though his coverage skills were pretty average for a free safety.

Sounds like Pittsburgh was looking for an in the box safety who could also harass TEs. He is better as a freelancer up at the LOS.

[Bretsky]

What about Jared Cook at TE? :)


HONESTLY that would be a PERFECT signing as well !!

[pbmax]

I'd be down for JC 2.0

[Joemailman]

HONESTLY that would be a PERFECT signing as well !!

I agree. Graham has a bad knee, and I don't know if it gets better. I believe Packers can save over 8 million on the salary cap if they cut Graham by March 15. They could sign Cook for that (or less) so they would be essentially trading Graham for Cook. Cook is older than Graham but more healthy.

[Bretsky]

I agree. Graham has a bad knee, and I don't know if it gets better. I believe Packers can save over 8 million on the salary cap if they cut Graham by March 15. They could sign Cook for that (or less) so they would be essentially trading Graham for Cook. Cook is older than Graham but more healthy.


Is Cook also faster than Graham when healthy ??

[mraynrand]

Is Cook also faster than Graham when healthy ??

Yes, he has two knees. Graham has but one.

[texaspackerbacker]

Cook is not older than Graham. He's a year younger - I woulda thought younger by more than that. If it's true we could sign Cook for less than we would be paying Graham, that sounds good to me. Drafting a TE in early rounds is a risk, as college performance often does not translate to pro performance for TEs.

[Fritz]

Cook is not older than Graham. He's a year younger - I woulda thought younger by more than that. If it's true we could sign Cook for less than we would be paying Graham, that sounds good to me. Drafting a TE in early rounds is a risk, as college performance often does not translate to pro performance for TEs.

You could do both - sign Cook AND draft a TE early. Those are not mutually exclusive.

[mraynrand]

You could do both - sign Cook AND draft a TE early. Those are not mutually exclusive.

Which is what they should have done two years ago. Hunter Henry would have been a reach, but Austin Hooper was available if you don't reach for SPRIGGS™ (I may be off by a year... but the point remains..)

[texaspackerbacker]

You could do both - sign Cook AND draft a TE early. Those are not mutually exclusive.

I agree, but I hope they don't go for a TE before maybe the 4th round.

[Bretsky]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001011078/article/top-25-nfl-free-agents-of-2019-defenders-dominate-rankings


DA TOP 25.......................HOW MANY OF THESE GUYS DO WE GET ?? LOTTA guys on here could help out Defense

[Fritz]

Spend like a drunken sailor, Gute!

[Joemailman]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001011078/article/top-25-nfl-free-agents-of-2019-defenders-dominate-rankings


DA TOP 25.......................HOW MANY OF THESE GUYS DO WE GET ?? LOTTA guys on here could help out Defense

Earl Thomas and Landon Collins both ended the year on IR. But either one would be a huge upgrade over anything the Packers have at Safety right now.

[Fritz]

You know it's bad when a dude in a wheelchair is seen as an upgrade.

[Teamcheez1]

Word on the street is Packers are bringing Jimmy Graham back. This will certainly change their draft and free agent boards.

[Bretsky]

Word on the street is Packers are bringing Jimmy Graham back. This will certainly change their draft and free agent boards.


Not sure how much it changes their draft board; I think they know Graham is on his last legs and they need a young athletic guy like Fant or Hockenson or somebody else Graham can mentor.

[pbmax]

Word on the street is Packers are bringing Jimmy Graham back. This will certainly change their draft and free agent boards.

What's the word on the street?

You're finished, through, you'll never work another day in this town.

Give it to me straight!


https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/one-more-mission/n9473

[denverYooper]

Spend like a drunken sailor, Gute!

That's how you wake up with an Albert Haynesworth

[pbmax]

Packers cap space carryover:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyQvsmEXgAA2ybd.jpg:large

[bobblehead]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001011078/article/top-25-nfl-free-agents-of-2019-defenders-dominate-rankings


DA TOP 25.......................HOW MANY OF THESE GUYS DO WE GET ?? LOTTA guys on here could help out Defense

Many of those guys won't actually hit FA, but if we could grab 2 of them at need positions and then have a nice draft....Lotta ifs. I stand by my assessment that its gonna take 2 years.

[call_me_ishmael]

If you have a chance to land a 29 year old future HOFer, you do it. The other guy might sniff a few pro bowls and make a nice career for himself. The future HOFer could be Charles Woodson 2.0.

[call_me_ishmael]

How is Mosley not franchised with 100% certainty or resigned already? That's insane. If he hits the market you spend and get him. He's a future HOFer too.

[gbgary]

thomas/flowers

[Patler]

How is Mosley not franchised with 100% certainty or resigned already?

Maybe because clubs can not designate franchise players until Feb. 19.............

[call_me_ishmael]

Maybe because clubs can not designate franchise players until Feb. 19.............

Okay fair enough, but there is talk that he won't be franchised. Seems crazy to me. I put that at 0.00001% chance of happening. You don't let a stud like that go without compensation.

[red]

Maybe because clubs can not designate franchise players until Feb. 19.............

DAMN FACTS!!!!!!!

[Teamcheez1]

I read a few articles this week about the Packers rebooting the back-up QB situation and looking for a veteran.

The Dolphins are planning to release Ryan Tannehill. Any idea whether he would accept a back-up QB position or if the Packers would even be interested?

[Patler]

Okay fair enough, but there is talk that he won't be franchised. Seems crazy to me. I put that at 0.00001% chance of happening. You don't let a stud like that go without compensation.

Not according to this article:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-cj-mosley-20190130-story.htmlhttp://

[Fritz]

I read a few articles this week about the Packers rebooting the back-up QB situation and looking for a veteran.

The Dolphins are planning to release Ryan Tannehill. Any idea whether he would accept a back-up QB position or if the Packers would even be interested?

I would like to see if Tim Boyle might be ready to step into that position. From the accounts I've read, the reporters - and an anonymous player - said Boyle looked more competent and talented than Kizer did in training camp. Give the kid another training camp, and if he looks good, it's an opportunity to save some money for all those sexy free agents people want.

But if you think he just doesn't have it, then you can sign some leftover re-tread in training camp.

[pbmax]

Polite: Is this impressive or desperate?

https://twitter.com/Sami_Thalji/status/909253328386887680

[pbmax]

Rick Stroud @NFLSTROUD

Bucs are releasing DE Vinny Curry.

[jklowan]

anyone think that Pack might try and trade Perry for Ant Brown? trade bad contracts with each other

[call_me_ishmael]

Antonio Brown is a good player tho.

[George Cumby]

I read a few articles this week about the Packers rebooting the back-up QB situation

I'd rather they reboot their starting Quarterback situation.

[The Shadow]

I would like to see if Tim Boyle might be ready to step into that position. From the accounts I've read, the reporters - and an anonymous player - said Boyle looked more competent and talented than Kizer did in training camp. Give the kid another training camp, and if he looks good, it's an opportunity to save some money for all those sexy free agents people want.

But if you think he just doesn't have it, then you can sign some leftover re-tread in training camp.

I thought Boyle looked much better, also.

[Patler]

I thought Boyle, playing with and against mostly guys who didn't make final rosters, looked better than Kizer did playing with and against mostly players who did make rosters. I'm not sure that those impressions from a few reason games last year mean very much.

[Freak Out]

Boyle has a cannon arm...release the dragon!

[pbmax]

NFL Update @MySportsUpdate

The free agent market for safeties is loaded:

Landon Collins
Earl Thomas
Lamarcus Joyner
Tyrann Mathieu
Adrian Amos
Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix
Clayton Geathers
Glover Quin
Tre Boston
Kenny Vaccaro
George Iloka
Jimmie Ward
Adrian Phillips

[Guiness]

NFL Update @MySportsUpdate

The free agent market for safeties is loaded:


Tyrann Mathieu


IMO the most interesting player on the list. 26 years old former all-pro, has a ton of talent. Has kept his nose clean since being in the NFL. After the shoulder injuries a couple of years ago played all 16 games the last 2 seasons and had a damn good season with Houston.

This is the guy I want.

[Joemailman]

IMO the most interesting player on the list. 26 years old former all-pro, has a ton of talent. Has kept his nose clean since being in the NFL. After the shoulder injuries a couple of years ago played all 16 games the last 2 seasons and had a damn good season with Houston.

This is the guy I want.

As PB noted, the list of potential free agents at Safety is strong. The period for teams to apply franchise or transitional tags to players runs from February 19 to March 5. Not sure if we'll see any action there. If Gutey plans on making a big move in free agency, Safety would seem a logical target. A big need, lots of free agents, and not a great 2019 draft class.

[red]

IMO the most interesting player on the list. 26 years old former all-pro, has a ton of talent. Has kept his nose clean since being in the NFL. After the shoulder injuries a couple of years ago played all 16 games the last 2 seasons and had a damn good season with Houston.

This is the guy I want.

and if i remember right, the guy is a "jack of all trades". he can play CB, safety, and ILB. and he just has "IT"

his only negative was his attitude or behavior, and ike you said, he's been a model player since coming into the league

he's the type of special talent we are lacking on defense IMO

[red]

As PB noted, the list of potential free agents at Safety is strong. The period for teams to apply franchise or transitional tags to players runs from February 19 to March 5. Not sure if we'll see any action there. If Gutey plans on making a big move in free agency, Safety would seem a logical target. A big need, lots of free agents, and not a great 2019 draft class.

we need 2 starters there, we can't afford to draft and develop both. gotta sign at least 1 free agent starter

[Patler]

(Tyrann Mathieu) IMO the most interesting player on the list. 26 years old former all-pro, has a ton of talent. Has kept his nose clean since being in the NFL. After the shoulder injuries a couple of years ago played all 16 games the last 2 seasons and had a damn good season with Houston.

This is the guy I want.

All true, but has also torn both ACLs since coming into the league, is small at 5'9", 185lbs and plays a style that doesn't bode well for NFL longevity. Played 16 games in 2017 but was released when he wouldn't take a pay cut 2 years into a 5 year contract. Has said he really likes and wants to return to Houston, so if he becomes available it will mean that two teams in two years let him go after the only complete 16 game years he has had in the NFL.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in GB, but the Packers should be careful with the structure of a contract. He has finished half his NFL seasons on IR with significant injuries that can have career and performance implications.

[pbmax]

All true, but has also torn both ACLs since coming into the league, is small at 5'9", 185lbs and plays a style that doesn't bode well for NFL longevity. Played 16 games in 2017 but was released when he wouldn't take a pay cut 2 years into a 5 year contract. Has said he really likes and wants to return to Houston, so if he becomes available it will mean that two teams in two years let him go after the only complete 16 game years he has had in the NFL.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in GB, but the Packers should be careful with the structure of a contract. He has finished half his NFL seasons on IR with significant injuries that can have career and performance implications.

I don't mind his being departure from the Cardinals (mutual business decision) but I am curious about why Houston might not re-sign him.

The knee injuries are a bigger concern to me.

[Teamcheez1]

When is Tank going to start a thread suggesting we now sign Colin Kaepernick?

[KYPack]

When is Tank going to start a thread suggesting we now sign Colin Kaepernick?

Ha! Owe ya a beer for that one, Cheez1.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

When is Tank going to start a thread suggesting we now sign Colin Kaepernick?

Quite frankly, I'm a bit disappointed Kap "sold out" and agreed to terms with the greed-fucked fishmonger owners. Does he really need the financial gain that comes with the settlement? It's not like Kap was flipping burgers for the minimum-wage, and a fishmonger offered him a $100 K a year gig to distract him from the "Revolution," and he accepted it in the name of short-term survival.

Sure, it would've been difficult for Kap to prove collusion in a fucked up justice system. But there's no greater honor than fighting a losing crusade when one's fighting the good fight and exposing the truth along the way.

Still, I will not burn my Kap jersey, and I hope he signs with the Pack.

[SudsMcBucky]

Quite frankly, I'm a bit disappointed Kap "sold out" and agreed to terms with the greed-fucked fishmonger owners. Does he really need the financial gain that comes with the settlement? It's not like Kap was flipping burgers for the minimum-wage, and a fishmonger offered him a $100 K a year gig to distract him from the "Revolution," and he accepted it in the name of short-term survival.

Sure, it would've been difficult for Kap to prove collusion in a fucked up justice system. But there's no greater honor than fighting a losing crusade when one's fighting the good fight and exposing the truth along the way.

Still, I will not burn my Kap jersey, and I hope he signs with the Pack.

If the reported $60-80 million figure is close, I can't blame him one bit for settling. That is generational money he'd be risking. If the decision doesn't go his way, that's a BIG hit.

[wist43]

Fuck Kapnerfucker...

He's an ignorant piece of shit.

[Freak Out]

NFL Update @MySportsUpdate

The free agent market for safeties is loaded:

Landon Collins
Earl Thomas
Lamarcus Joyner
Tyrann Mathieu
Adrian Amos
Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix
Clayton Geathers
Glover Quin
Tre Boston
Kenny Vaccaro
George Iloka
Jimmie Ward
Adrian Phillips

I keep hearing that the Pack will sign Earl Thomas. Thoughts on this happening and if it does he'll be even close to his HOF form?

[call_me_ishmael]

I keep hearing that the Pack will sign Earl Thomas. Thoughts on this happening and if it does he'll be even close to his HOF form?

That's the guy I want. Very reminiscent of Charles Woodson signing in my opinion. 29 years old. Off of serious leg injury. Deserved a contract but other team wouldn't byte. HOFer.

[Fritz]

That's the guy I want. Very reminiscent of Charles Woodson signing in my opinion. 29 years old. Off of serious leg injury. Deserved a contract but other team wouldn't byte. HOFer.

One thing you can say about fans: they ain't logical. Kevin King, Justin Harrell, etc, etc...every time the Packers draft a guy who ends up getting injured (whether or not it's related to a college injury), we're all bitterly complaining about choosing guys who are injury prone.

But throw a free agent name out there, someone we've heard of, and it doesn't matter that he's older and has broken a leg, or has torn two ACL's and ripped up a knee AND would cost more than a rookie contract - we want him, and by golly, if the Packers' brass doesn't outbid everyone and sign him, it means they don't want to win.

[pbmax]

Thomas has missed major portions of 2 of his last 3 seasons with significant leg injuries. His specialty was playing single high safety and being able to get to each sideline with fantastic speed.

I don't know if that is still in his future.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm more in the Landon Collins camp if we're going to spend money on a S.

[pbmax]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Starting today and until March 5, there could be at least 10 players receiving some form of a tag: DeMarcus Lawrence, Jadeveon Clowney, Dee Ford, Frank Clark, Gardy Jarrett, Landon Collins, Nick Foles, Le’Veon Bell, Donovan Smith, Robbie Gould and Stephen Gostkowski, per sources.

Pretty sure that is Grady Jarrett.

Collins likely to get tag according to Schefterson. Same with Dee Ford.

Eagles are going to have to do some major maneuvering to get Foles tag under their cap. Is it really worth it for a 2nd round pick?

[call_me_ishmael]

One thing you can say about fans: they ain't logical. Kevin King, Justin Harrell, etc, etc...every time the Packers draft a guy who ends up getting injured (whether or not it's related to a college injury), we're all bitterly complaining about choosing guys who are injury prone.

But throw a free agent name out there, someone we've heard of, and it doesn't matter that he's older and has broken a leg, or has torn two ACL's and ripped up a knee AND would cost more than a rookie contract - we want him, and by golly, if the Packers' brass doesn't outbid everyone and sign him, it means they don't want to win.

Hard to argue with that. I think part of it is the results when healthy. Both Chuck and Thomas were HOF type players that aren't available unless something is wrong with them.

[Patler]

Thomas has missed major portions of 2 of his last 3 seasons with significant leg injuries. His specialty was playing single high safety and being able to get to each sideline with fantastic speed.

I don't know if that is still in his future.

Broken legs caused him to miss 5 games in 2016 and 12 games in 2018. A hamstring caused him to miss 2 games in 2017. Before that, he was a 16 games/year guy. I don't have any personal experiences with broken legs. Could those affect his speed?

[pbmax]

Broken legs caused him to miss 5 games in 2016 and 12 games in 2018. A hamstring caused him to miss 2 games in 2017. Before that, he was a 16 games/year guy. I don't have any personal experiences with broken legs. Could those affect his speed?

I don't know, all my casts were the result of soft tissue injuries. It would depend on how they heal I would guess. But the injuries plus age aren't making him faster.

I would not sign him and expect 3 years of sideline to sideline coverage as before.

[Freak Out]

Yep...thats my worry as well. Doubtful that he'd be a bargain to sign and the injury history the last couple of years is scary.

[Deputy Nutz]

Earl Thomas probably isn't going to be cheap. Mathieu might offer the most value, if you can get him for 3 years 12 million or so. I make those numbers up because I have know idea how much he really makes.

[wist43]

Like I said in the draft thread, I'm not too worried about safety.

Defense starts up front, and the Packers are as pedestrian as they come.

Two guys in FA I'd have bullseyes on if I were Gute, would be,

Shaquil Barrett, OLB, Broncos
and
Preston Smith, Edge, Redskins

Either one of those guys would be a major upgrade over Perry and Matthews.

Signing one of those guys would also take the pressure off to land an Edge guy in the draft; although, it wouldn't stop me from grabbing Polite or Burns.

[Deputy Nutz]

Addition by subtraction.

Cut Perry

[Patler]

Yep...thats my worry as well. Doubtful that he'd be a bargain to sign and the injury history the last couple of years is scary.

I'm not too concerned about the last three years at all, except that they have made him three years older! :)

Unless he has some type of bone deficiency or abnormality, the two broken legs seem to be "wrong place, wrong time" types of injuries from which I would expect him to recover. Perhaps his playing style puts him in the "wrong place, wrong time" situations more commonly, but the Packers have missed that type of play on defense for a long time. I would be more concerned if he had multiple foot fractures, or something like that. A single hamstring issue in the exact middle of 2017, causing him to miss two games but return to play the final 7 games, seems minor.

Count me as unconcerned about his injury history.

[Joemailman]

Earl Thomas probably isn't going to be cheap. Mathieu might offer the most value, if you can get him for 3 years 12 million or so. I make those numbers up because I have know idea how much he really makes.

Mathieu made 7 mil last year on a 1 year deal with Texans. He made 8.1 million in 2017 with the Cardinals in the 2nd year of a 5 year extension. He was released after the 2017 season after refusing to take a pay cut.

[wist43]

I'd be very disappointed if they made a run at Mathieu. Would like to see Breeland back, maybe look at moving Jackson.

Don't really understand why you guys are so hyper-focused on the DB's though... lot of young talent to work with back there.

Our problems on defense start up front, as always.

[Fritz]

I'd be very disappointed if they made a run at Mathieu. Would like to see Breeland back, maybe look at moving Jackson.

Don't really understand why you guys are so hyper-focused on the DB's though... lot of young talent to work with back there.

Our problems on defense start up front, as always.


So you think they're fine at safety?

[Carolina_Packer]

I'd be very disappointed if they made a run at Mathieu. Would like to see Breeland back, maybe look at moving Jackson.

Don't really understand why you guys are so hyper-focused on the DB's though... lot of young talent to work with back there.

Our problems on defense start up front, as always.

Any players up front that you would go after in free agency? Who is losing snaps as a result of your suggested move?

Would signing Wilkerson again make you feel better about the D line?

Taking Pettine's scheme into account, and that by percentage of snaps they are not in their base D as often, who is going to help in the nickel (mostly) sub they are most likely to run?

[wist43]

So you think they're fine at safety?

I didn't say we are fine at safety... I just dont think the position is as critical as upgrading our overall front 7.

Besides, an improved pass rush will make life easier on the secondary as QB's will have less time to get rid of the ball. Less time in coverage, more errant passes, etc.


Any players up front that you would go after in free agency? Who is losing snaps as a result of your suggested move?

Would signing Wilkerson again make you feel better about the D line?

Taking Pettine's scheme into account, and that by percentage of snaps they are not in their base D as often, who is going to help in the nickel (mostly) sub they are most likely to run?

I posted 2 candidates for outside/Edge - Shaquil Barrett, Denver, and Preston Smith, Washington.

Most of the other Edge rushers are going to be Franchised, or are going to be very expensive. I think both Barrett and Smith will land decent contracts, but I think both have good upside and will be more affordable.

I would go after both of those guys, but if I could only take 1, I'd prefer Barrett.

So let's say you land Barrett and Smith, and draft White?? In one short offseason you've substantially rebuilt and improved your front 7.

That would make a bigger impact on your defense than anything you did at the safety position.

[The Shadow]

Broken legs caused him to miss 5 games in 2016 and 12 games in 2018. A hamstring caused him to miss 2 games in 2017. Before that, he was a 16 games/year guy. I don't have any personal experiences with broken legs. Could those affect his speed?

No more than blindness could affect his depth perception.

[red]

No more than blindness could affect his depth perception.

About as much as a broken collarbone would effect a QBs accuracy

[Patler]

No more than blindness could affect his depth perception.

Because his legs no longer function?

[Patler]

About as much as a broken collarbone would effect a QBs accuracy

That's my question, does it?

[bobblehead]

I think we need to cut some deadwood and begin the rebuild. No reason at all to not cut Perry immediately. Its a relatively deep OLB class and I'm betting he can't land a deal anywhere near what we are paying him. Replace him with one of the FA's or at a minimum bring him back at half price (or less).

Probably will stick with Graham because we have nothing else, but I would personally cut him too. We have been paying all the wrong guys for a few years now and its time to change that. Thomas and one of the EDGE would open us up on draft day to draft BPA and that could still be an edge guy. We could also feel less pressure to go edge and grab one of the 2 OT if they dropped, or what if Ed Oliver is sitting there at 12. We got GAPING holes at OLB and S and we got cap money. I can't see any reason we wouldn't move on from Perry and spend some of that money to fill serious need areas. I'd probably look for a solid G in FA as well. Nothing to break the bank, but give me a solid $5 mil a year interior guy to play next to Lindsey and whoever is left standing at T. I don't mind saving money if we will need it to resign guys, but the best talent on this roster is already locked up for a couple years. I just can't see needing the cap money we have atm to keep any of our own "must keep" guys for at least 2-3 years. In that time cap goes up, guys salaries fall off, etc.

[red]

That's my question, does it?

maybe if its in a place where ligaments are involved?

i honestly don't know. you wouldn't think so unless the bone doesn't heal right

i always thought broken bones are just some random thing that happens. its the repeated muscle tears or ligament damage that i think of when i think of someone being injury prone

[red]

I think we need to cut some deadwood and begin the rebuild. No reason at all to not cut Perry immediately. Its a relatively deep OLB class and I'm betting he can't land a deal anywhere near what we are paying him. Replace him with one of the FA's or at a minimum bring him back at half price (or less).

Probably will stick with Graham because we have nothing else, but I would personally cut him too. We have been paying all the wrong guys for a few years now and its time to change that. Thomas and one of the EDGE would open us up on draft day to draft BPA and that could still be an edge guy. We could also feel less pressure to go edge and grab one of the 2 OT if they dropped, or what if Ed Oliver is sitting there at 12. We got GAPING holes at OLB and S and we got cap money. I can't see any reason we wouldn't move on from Perry and spend some of that money to fill serious need areas. I'd probably look for a solid G in FA as well. Nothing to break the bank, but give me a solid $5 mil a year interior guy to play next to Lindsey and whoever is left standing at T. I don't mind saving money if we will need it to resign guys, but the best talent on this roster is already locked up for a couple years. I just can't see needing the cap money we have atm to keep any of our own "must keep" guys for at least 2-3 years. In that time cap goes up, guys salaries fall off, etc.

i'd kinda like to see if the new kid coach can figure out how to use a TE, because that was one of my big complaints about fat dickhead. he could have 4 of the greatest TE's in nfl history on the team at the same time, and he still wouldn't use them right

if we still had fat fuck, i would totally agree with you that graham and the rest of the TE's on the team are just a complete waste of money

[wist43]

Nobody here likes Barrett or Preston Smith as FA targets??

I think both of the guys make a lot of sense...

Suppose you sign Barrett, and draft White... I would argue we'd still need two more front seven studs, but those 2 guys would be a big upgrade over anything we have now.

Jettison Perry and Ryan, and reduce Fackrell to a spot rotation guy. Gotta get Fackrell out of the starting lineup.

[Fritz]

Wist, you write that "So let's say you land Barrett and Smith, and draft White?? In one short offseason you've substantially rebuilt and improved your front 7.

That would make a bigger impact on your defense than anything you did at the safety position."

But couldn't you argue that if you signed two good free-agent safeties, and drafted another one high, you could make as big an impact on the safety position as drafting one guy up front?

You're basically arguing for throwing a ton of players at a problem.

[Deputy Nutz]

Its the chicken vs the egg scenario. Does a good pass rush boost the secondary or does a good secondary boost the pass rush? The Patriots demonstrated in the Super Bowl that aggravating the QB still works in handling the 21st century pass happy offenses. Taking away the run game is still the number 1 key to playing good team defense and making offenses one dimensional. Safeties are important dynamic on a football field and in the 3-4 they can be heavily relied on to be over hang players and alley run fillers.

Outside linebackers in a 3-4 are still the most valuable position on the field. They have to be pass rush specialist and dynamic against the run. Without them you should just play a 4-3

[run pMc]

Nobody here likes Barrett or Preston Smith as FA targets??
I do. Signing up-and-comers at OLB means a rookie doesn't have to be a savior. They'd still need to draft 1-2 because Matthews has aged, Perry can't stay healthy enough to earn his contract, and I doubt Fackrell gets 10 sacks again.

I'm not overwhelmed by the safety draft class. Adderly might be the best of the bunch. It seems like GB has safeties who are more in-the-box types (Josh Jones, Brice) and they lack someone with smarts and instincts who can get everyone lined up and play deep...a FS, not a SS. Maybe Pettine's D can function without that type of player, but his defense did well with Jim Leonhard.
I realize a lot of defenses are going the "interchangable" path with safeties, but some players are more natural in certain roles, and the FS draft class is thin unless they think they can get someone to switch from CB to S.

I think Landon Collins will stay with NYG, and who knows if he'd be a fit for Pettine anyway. I thought he was more of a box safety anyway.
Thomas is a maybe, the recent injuries are a concern.
Honey Badger would get the GB curse and end up on IR, especially with the way he plays, plus he'll want $$$ to play.

Using FA to plug some holes and put less pressure on your draft picks makes sense, I think they'll have to do that at every position.

[pbmax]

Its the chicken vs the egg scenario. Does a good pass rush boost the secondary or does a good secondary boost the pass rush? The Patriots demonstrated in the Super Bowl that aggravating the QB still works in handling the 21st century pass happy offenses. Taking away the run game is still the number 1 key to playing good team defense and making offenses one dimensional. Safeties are important dynamic on a football field and in the 3-4 they can be heavily relied on to be over hang players and alley run fillers.

Outside linebackers in a 3-4 are still the most valuable position on the field. They have to be pass rush specialist and dynamic against the run. Without them you should just play a 4-3

If you have both skills, its a benefit in either scheme.

A 4-3 needs a pass rush DE. The Sam needs to battle the TE and hold the edge of the offense's strong side and do some pass D. Its the same skill sets. If you have two that can do both, its lights out in either front. Capers played a 4-3 Under with his 3-4 personnel for most of his Packers career. Just that Perry was standing up.

[Deputy Nutz]

Oh my god, nitpicking son of a bitch. There is a total difference between an edge rusher in a 4-3 and an edge in a 3-4, and Strong side linebacker in a 4-3 versus a 3-4. Check how the SAM gets paid in a 4-3 versus a 3-4. Big difference. The Packers paid out 22 million in their OLBs last year, I can't really believe their is a SAM 4-3 linebacker making any where near half of that type money.

[Fritz]

Its the chicken vs the egg scenario. Does a good pass rush boost the secondary or does a good secondary boost the pass rush? The Patriots demonstrated in the Super Bowl that aggravating the QB still works in handling the 21st century pass happy offenses. Taking away the run game is still the number 1 key to playing good team defense and making offenses one dimensional. Safeties are important dynamic on a football field and in the 3-4 they can be heavily relied on to be over hang players and alley run fillers.

Outside linebackers in a 3-4 are still the most valuable position on the field. They have to be pass rush specialist and dynamic against the run. Without them you should just play a 4-3

True, true.

I suppose if the players Wist likes really can play, then it would work out by making the safeties' jobs easier.

I do think, though, a steady, veteran hand back there can really help, too. When Glover Quinn signed with Detroit a few years back, he instantly fortified what had been a mess of a back end. He was not a superstar, but he righted the ship. Maybe Ibrahim Campbell can be that guy, or maybe they'll sign someone. I'd like to see Tramontana go back to cornering.

[pbmax]

Oh my god, nitpicking son of a bitch. There is a total difference between an edge rusher in a 4-3 and an edge in a 3-4, and Strong side linebacker in a 4-3 versus a 3-4. Check how the SAM gets paid in a 4-3 versus a 3-4. Big difference. The Packers paid out 22 million in their OLBs last year, I can't really believe their is a SAM 4-3 linebacker making any where near half of that type money.

Julius Peppers played a lot of SAM while he was with the Packers. TE side, two point stance, occasional coverage. Mostly pass rush and holding an edge. Lotta money to be made if you can get to the QB on pass downs. He also played a lot of pass rush end for the Bears and Panthers.

Defenses are not so static anymore that Brady Poppinga could make an average NFL wage being a run stuffing SAM.

But I did omit the power end of the 4-3 (Reggie's position). That is the one that is hard to find if you transition to 4-3. Because the OLB you are converting isn't going to be as effective in a 5 or 7 technique. You need a bigger guy who can still pass rush and most 3-4 lineman don't have the mobility.

Matthews couldn't do that. Perry maybe.

[wist43]

Wist, you write that "So let's say you land Barrett and Smith, and draft White?? In one short offseason you've substantially rebuilt and improved your front 7.

That would make a bigger impact on your defense than anything you did at the safety position."

But couldn't you argue that if you signed two good free-agent safeties, and drafted another one high, you could make as big an impact on the safety position as drafting one guy up front?

You're basically arguing for throwing a ton of players at a problem.

No... you're not looking at it correctly. Safeties aren't going to make your pass rush better - maybe tack on a couple of coverage sacks per year; whereas, pass rush makes all 3 levels of your defense better.

And my solution to our LB woes is not "throwing a ton of players at a problem, it is identifying 3 problem areas and targeting them with 3 quality, talented players.

Barett, Smith - and throw in Barr as an "and/or" guy - are proven guys that can be had affordably; and, White is an outright stud.

Be wise, follow my advice, and sit back and watch our front 7 crush the NFC North ;)

[RashanGary]

I see wists point to an extent but I do strongly disagree about safety play. Safeties are impossible to avoid because they’re covering the middle of the field. Great safeties make it so much harder on qbs. And vice versa. They’re very hard to cover up if they’re bad. The middle of the field will get picked apart by good qbs. I’d love to see the ILB, white. I’d also love a playmaking safety to go with. QBs gonna have a lot harder time going over the middle if we get smarter, faster stronger in there. That affects the whole defense just like pass rush does.

SB winning teams almost always have a great safety. It’s almost as consistent on championship teams as QB play is.

[wist43]

Sign a smart, savvy vet back there...

We've neglected the front 7 forever, while we've had endless high draft pick dart throws at the secondary... Clark is okay, I know you guys think he's Reggie White in there, but at least he hasn't been a bust; Perry is done, and never was much anyway; Matthew's is done; Fackrell is a backup; Gilbert didn't step up; Ryan is a backup; and Martinez is average.

Fella's, that is a huge mess of a front 7.

[Joemailman]

List of possible free agent safeties is pretty good:


Landon Collins: Do-it-all safety with eight interceptions, 22 tackles for losses and four sacks in four seasons. All-Pro in 2016. The Giants might give him the franchise tag.

Tre Boston: Ballhawking free safety with eight interceptions and 17 pass breakups the last two seasons. Turns 27 in June. Likely to be a much cheaper solution than Thomas or Collins.

Adrian Amos: Quietly solid player for the Bears defense. Broke up nine passes and intercepted two others last season. Can cover and play the run and doesn’t turn 26 until April.

Lamarcus Joyner: Versatile safety who can cover the slot or drop into the deep half. Played on the franchise tag last season and is looking to get paid over multiple years. Smaller but tough; has only missed seven games the last four seasons.

Kenny Vaccaro: Played 13 games for the Titans last season, tallying an interception and two sacks. Veteran safety has played 81 games in six seasons.

Adrian Phillips: Former undrafted free agent burst onto the scene in 2018, producing 88 tackles and nine pass breakups for the Chargers. Ascending player that thrived with a bigger opportunity. Turns 27 in March.

[pbmax]

Sign a smart, savvy vet back there...

We've neglected the front 7 forever, while we've had endless high draft pick dart throws at the secondary... Clark is okay, I know you guys think he's Reggie White in there, but at least he hasn't been a bust; Perry is done, and never was much anyway; Matthew's is done; Fackrell is a backup; Gilbert didn't step up; Ryan is a backup; and Martinez is average.

Fella's, that is a huge mess of a front 7.

You keep saying the front 7. But you really mean LB. Clark, Daniels and Lowry/Wilkerson are going to be fine next year.

[wist43]

You keep saying the front 7. But you really mean LB. Clark, Daniels and Lowry/Wilkerson are going to be fine next year.

I like those guys okay, even if all of them disappointed to whatever extent last year.

Of course it could be argued that with such horrible LB play, offenses could focus on those guys. That said, Lowry was the only of those guys that didn't end the year on IR, and Adam's didn't do anything with his opportunity.

I would be okay with taking one of the DT's in the 1st round... certainly not my first choice though.

Every time I watch tape of White, I just can't imagine a scenario in which I am the GM of the Packers and I dont do whatever it takes to make him a Packer.

[Smidgeon]

List of possible free agent safeties is pretty good:

This list really emphasizes how special Nick Collins was.

I guess I'm still living in the past on that one.

[Fritz]

I like those guys okay, even if all of them disappointed to whatever extent last year.

Of course it could be argued that with such horrible LB play, offenses could focus on those guys. That said, Lowry was the only of those guys that didn't end the year on IR, and Adam's didn't do anything with his opportunity.

I would be okay with taking one of the DT's in the 1st round... certainly not my first choice though.

Every time I watch tape of White, I just can't imagine a scenario in which I am the GM of the Packers and I dont do whatever it takes to make him a Packer.

Lions said to be looking hard at him at #8.

[wist43]

Lions said to be looking hard at him at #8.

Yeah, I've heard that... I'd move up to get him.

If we can't move up, back up plan would be Polite.

I know they won't address LB in FA, so Polite fills a huge hole. Fackrell and Matthew's both need to be replaced, but I'm not sure the Packers see that.

[Upnorth]

Any one mention Adam Humpries as an upgrade over Cobb? Likely be cheaper and lots of upside considering he produced in the tampa scheme.

[Joemailman]

Any one mention Adam Humpries as an upgrade over Cobb? Likely be cheaper and lots of upside considering he produced in the tampa scheme.

Good player. Gets better every year. Not sure if WR is where the Packers want to spend money, and he might be fairly expensive because it's not a great pool of FA's at WR. He might be the 2nd best after Golden Tate. Great story though. Undrafted guy who had to go to a rookie tryout camp to make it.

[Joemailman]

Yeah, I've heard that... I'd move up to get him.

If we can't move up, back up plan would be Polite.

I know they won't address LB in FA, so Polite fills a huge hole. Fackrell and Matthew's both need to be replaced, but I'm not sure the Packers see that.

I'd go with the backup plan. It would take giving up their 3rd round pick to move from 12 to 7. I'd gladly take Polite or Ferrell and keep the pick.

[wist43]

I'd go with the backup plan. It would take giving up their 3rd round pick to move from 12 to 7. I'd gladly take Polite or Ferrell and keep the pick.

I like Polite over Ferrell b/c of his speed rush... can't coach that. I like Ferrell too though.

White is a tier up from Polite though. If I thought White and Polite were in the same tier I'd agree with you, but White is a tier above; hence, the justification to jump up and get him.

If the Packers scouting is anything like the past 2 decades though, they don't even know White is alive.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think White has a lot of potential. I don't know what the Packers would be willing to give up to move up to secure drafting him. I think he is a better prospect than Roquan Smith who went 8th overall. He simply a bigger athlete than Smith and can probably run the same. Smith had an excellent rookie season and White could have the potential to play at an even higher level.

Hell this might a good draft to trade back and get as many 2 and 3 round picks as you can. Seems like on paper the second and third round might have some big potential, but we really won't know much until after the combine

[Fritz]

No... you're not looking at it correctly. Safeties aren't going to make your pass rush better - maybe tack on a couple of coverage sacks per year; whereas, pass rush makes all 3 levels of your defense better.

And my solution to our LB woes is not "throwing a ton of players at a problem, it is identifying 3 problem areas and targeting them with 3 quality, talented players.

Barett, Smith - and throw in Barr as an "and/or" guy - are proven guys that can be had affordably; and, White is an outright stud.

Be wise, follow my advice, and sit back and watch our front 7 crush the NFC North ;)


Well, okay. I can see your logic there. I do think, though, that it's really the linebackers that need the upgrading. Maybe one defensive lineman, though.

[Deputy Nutz]

I really like what Kenny Clark brings to the table. What I look for in a 3-4 nose is some one that maintains the line of scrimmage and makes the running back change direction. I don't expect them to be in the backfield every play or being a block destroyer when he is taking on 650 pounds of offensive linemen. Daniels is a bit overrated in my opinion but he is still a quality NFL defensive lineman. The Packers under Petine and Capers like to go with only two prototypical linemen in their Dime and Nickle package and I struggle with this as I think it is predictable where the 4th rusher will be coming from. I know JJ Watts don't show up under the Christmas tree every year but having that 5 technique pass rusher really makes a 3-4 defense work. In reality it is probably the hardest athlete to find and develop. Watt, Peppers, and White. I am sure there are others like a Strahan, but he was even undersized compared to those other three. Peppers is even more of a 4-3 end than a 3-4 end, but you see my point.

So teams look to get their edge rushers in as OLB in a 3-4 because they are easier to find. The Packers have a severe lack of production from that position for the past 5 years and the 3-4 will simply not work unless those two guys are getting pressure. 2014 was the last time Matthews had double digit sacks. That simply doesn't work if he was the best pass rushers the Packers had to offer.

So free agency. What can the Packers do to bolster their defense. Some how we here have boiled it down to safety or OLB. For one that's nonsense, but if you only had one position to go after you would have to look at linebacker. The Packers have to find a way to consistently hurry the QB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Any one mention Adam Humpries as an upgrade over Cobb? Likely be cheaper and lots of upside considering he produced in the tampa scheme.

I don't think Humphries will be cheaper. I think what he gets may surprise some people. There's also Golden Tate and Jamison Crowder, so some guy slot guys out there.

[ThunderDan]

I really like what Kenny Clark brings to the table. What I look for in a 3-4 nose is some one that maintains the line of scrimmage and makes the running back change direction. I don't expect them to be in the backfield every play or being a block destroyer when he is taking on 650 pounds of offensive linemen. Daniels is a bit overrated in my opinion but he is still a quality NFL defensive lineman. The Packers under Petine and Capers like to go with only two prototypical linemen in their Dime and Nickle package and I struggle with this as I think it is predictable where the 4th rusher will be coming from. I know JJ Watts don't show up under the Christmas tree every year but having that 5 technique pass rusher really makes a 3-4 defense work. In reality it is probably the hardest athlete to find and develop. Watt, Peppers, and White. I am sure there are others like a Strahan, but he was even undersized compared to those other three. Peppers is even more of a 4-3 end than a 3-4 end, but you see my point.

So teams look to get their edge rushers in as OLB in a 3-4 because they are easier to find. The Packers have a severe lack of production from that position for the past 5 years and the 3-4 will simply not work unless those two guys are getting pressure. 2014 was the last time Matthews had double digit sacks. That simply doesn't work if he was the best pass rushers the Packers had to offer.

So free agency. What can the Packers do to bolster their defense. Some how we here have boiled it down to safety or OLB. For one that's nonsense, but if you only had one position to go after you would have to look at linebacker. The Packers have to find a way to consistently hurry the QB.

I read that as TJ Watt the first time through and was laughing pretty hard at your assessment. Then I thought Nutz ain't that dumb and reread and saw JJ Watt.

[run pMc]

Any one mention Adam Humpries as an upgrade over Cobb? Likely be cheaper and lots of upside considering he produced in the tampa scheme.

I've been on the Humphries bandwagon as a vet who could replace Cobb, but I'm hearing he might command quite a bit in FA. Crowder might be an ok bandaid. Cobb has been a Bears-killer and a good teammate but he's pretty beat up so I'm ok with them letting him walk.
It wouldn't shock me if they drafted a slot WR (i.e., taking a late round flyer on someone like Penny Hart or Olamide Zaccheaus), but I also wonder about having positive veteran influences on the youngun's in the WR room. Maybe last year made them grow up, maybe Davante and G-Mo can be strong enough mentors...we'll see. Antonio Brown would not be the answer.

[Bretsky]

I can't imagine GB would pay Cobb what he's due to make; that would just be imcompetency

I'll take Humphries over Cobb even money. Much better route runner

[pbmax]

There was a report of Packers being ready to move on from Cobb. But Gute denied any decisions have been made yet today at the Combine.

[pbmax]

Does anyone want Wilkerson back and starting?

[Patler]

Does anyone want Wilkerson back and starting?

Back? Yes. He is exactly the type of experienced veteran that so many criticized TT for not bringing in. I've read several articles that reported Wilkerson was a very good addition to the locker room, and that he hung around GB and the team for the whole season, providing very positive input.

Starting? I have no opinion on that because he didn't play enough last year for me to form an opinion about what type of contributions he can make on the field. I want him back so he has an opportunity to demonstrate his value.

[Joemailman]

I would like Wilkerson back as part of the DL rotation. Packers only have 2 DL on the field much of the time, so Clark and Daniels are really your starters. Although before he got hurt, he and Daniels were pretty much getting the same number of snaps. I'd like to see him back, although Packers probably won't overpay due to the emergence of Lowry, Lancaster and Adams.

[pbmax]

One of the differences between Pettine and Capers is that Pettine, when he wants to be heavy in nickel, moves to a 3-3, just as wist asked for.

Until injuries took over, that was Clark, Daniels and Wilkerson. If anyone has snap numbers by formation, I would love to know how often they were in that.

[Deputy Nutz]

He is still one of the better DTs in free agency and his season was cut pretty short in 2018. I think he can be a good rotational piece.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don't think Humphries will be cheaper. I think what he gets may surprise some people. There's also Golden Tate and Jamison Crowder, so some guy slot guys out there.

I’m all for signing Cole Beasley.

[bobblehead]

Yeah, I've heard that... I'd move up to get him.

If we can't move up, back up plan would be Polite.

I know they won't address LB in FA, so Polite fills a huge hole. Fackrell and Matthew's both need to be replaced, but I'm not sure the Packers see that.

Wist, coming in to last season I was as low on Fackrell as anyone, but he showed enough to make me think he isn't the waste of space you keep describing. Guys do make jumps along the way and he showed something last year. I'm cautious and not ready to proclaim him the next Kevin Greene yet, but there is some reason to believe he could be a solid #2 starter in this league.

[bobblehead]

Any one mention Adam Humpries as an upgrade over Cobb? Likely be cheaper and lots of upside considering he produced in the tampa scheme.

I own him in a dynasty league. He is an improving player. With Rodgers he could be a 90 catch 1000 yard guy. He won't be better than that, but give him 3 years while the youngsters develop and I think it would be a good signing (at the right price of course).

[Joemailman]

I own him in a dynasty league. He is an improving player. With Rodgers he could be a 90 catch 1000 yard guy. He won't be better than that, but give him 3 years while the youngsters develop and I think it would be a good signing (at the right price of course).

Quick, smart smallish caucasian slot receiver. How does this guy not end up a Patriot at some point?

[Fritz]

One of the differences between Pettine and Capers is that Pettine, when he wants to be heavy in nickel, moves to a 3-3, just as wist asked for.

Until injuries took over, that was Clark, Daniels and Wilkerson. If anyone has snap numbers by formation, I would love to know how often they were in that.

When they draft front-seven with their first three picks, and any of them are named White or Polite, we'll know where Wist is employed.

[call_me_ishmael]

Wist, coming in to last season I was as low on Fackrell as anyone, but he showed enough to make me think he isn't the waste of space you keep describing. Guys do make jumps along the way and he showed something last year. I'm cautious and not ready to proclaim him the next Kevin Greene yet, but there is some reason to believe he could be a solid #2 starter in this league.

https://i.imgur.com/mLNIjMj.jpg

[Bretsky]

Quick, smart smallish caucasian slot receiver. How does this guy not end up a Patriot at some point?


BINGO

He prolly catches 100 and is Edelman like with HGJr

I'd LOVE to see Golden Tate or Adam da Hump

It'd be idiotic to bring Cobb back at that salary

[wist43]

Wist, coming in to last season I was as low on Fackrell as anyone, but he showed enough to make me think he isn't the waste of space you keep describing. Guys do make jumps along the way and he showed something last year. I'm cautious and not ready to proclaim him the next Kevin Greene yet, but there is some reason to believe he could be a solid #2 starter in this league.

Nah, Fackrell's ceiling is avg-below avg... he needs to be replaced.

I have better movement skills than he does, and I'm fixin to go under the for my 2nd hip replacement.

[wist43]

In general, I think we can make do with our DL... forever I've wanted the Packers to invest in LBs, and forever the Packers have been spinning their wheels.

Whether it's a 3-4, 2-4, or a 3-3 the strength of those alignments had better be your LBing corp... the Packers don't see that.

[pbmax]

I want pass rush. But I am not for an ILB ahead of safeties. Run all you want, Packers will outscore you. If they find a Buchanon who can play inside and cover, then OK. But good luck with that.

Pass D was still worse last year than Run D and that was with the d line shedding bodies monthly.

[pbmax]

Its all over.

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
The #Eagles have locked up a huge free agent before it begins: They agreed to terms with DE Brandon Graham on a three-year contract extension.

[pbmax]

Ear Thomas, coming to a town near you for a boatload of cash.

ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk
Earl Thomas wants to become the highest-paid safety in the NFL, reportedly offering no "hometown discount" to the Cowboys, so he likely finds more money elsewhere\

https://t.co/sqvIXQMXJa

[pbmax]

Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo
The #Giants have discussed the possibility of trading LB Olivier Vernon, sources tell me and @RapSheet. The big score of free agency a few years ago, Vernon might have played his last down as a Giant.

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
Ian Rapoport Retweeted Mike Garafolo
Teams have been made aware of the #Giants willingness to move Vernon. Another top pass-rusher available

[Teamcheez1]

Ear Thomas, coming to a town near you for a boatload of cash.

ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk
Earl Thomas wants to become the highest-paid safety in the NFL, reportedly offering no "hometown discount" to the Cowboys, so he likely finds more money elsewhere\

https://t.co/sqvIXQMXJa

Not interested in him at any price close to that.

[gbgary]

thomas just relegated himself to teams with $60+m in cap space. oh well.

[pbmax]

Didn't know where else to put this, so because it deals with pass rush, it goes in the FA thread.

Pro Football Focus @PFF
Aaron Donald DOMINATED when rushing the passer last year.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0mWTqJWwAIow-3.jpg

[pbmax]

Baltimore Ravens @Ravens
We have waived RB Alex Collins.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/awakep/so_landon_collins_commented_this_on_hahas_latest/

:thinking_face:

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/1101539840544460800


Several agents who have met with the Packers at the combine said they got the sense their plan is to spend on a pass rusher (or pass rushers) in free agency and then see what's left in the budget.

Aww yiss, mother fuckin' breadcrumbs.

[pbmax]

That agent is getting around:

Michael Cohen
#Packers are definitely pursuing edge rushers in free agency. The question is whether they’ll get priced out of the market as an organization that operates conservatively. Sources believe top OLBs who won’t get tagged/re-signed should command $10 million to $16 million per year.

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein
#Packers still have an interest in bringing back free agent S Ibraheim Campbell. However, he tore his ACL against Arizona, which the team didn't disclose. He was very effective in his short stint after being picked up on waivers. Could be ready by training camp and brought back.


It’s the off-season and Packers are still getting hurt.

[Fritz]

Hey, if you cut Jimmy Graham you could save 5.8 million for an edge rusher, and you wouldn't really be losing much production at the TE spot!

[run pMc]

I think they've gone on record saying they plan to keep Graham, although plans change.
They have been pretty noncommittal about Matthews and Cobb, so I assume that means they are both good as gone...especially Cobb.

I'd be ok with dumping Perry and putting that cap savings towards a younger/healthier edge rusher. Losing Perry and Matthews forces a near-complete rebuild of the OLBs -- which is needed but could take a while to get right.

[Joemailman]

Hey, if you cut Jimmy Graham you could save 5.8 million for an edge rusher, and you wouldn't really be losing much production at the TE spot!

I would rather cut Perry, save 5.1 million and use THAT to sign his replacement. Graham is still by far their best receiving TE on the team. He was a disappointment last year, but not a total bust.

1. Cut Perry

2. Draft Polite or Burns at #12.

3. Draft Fant, Hockenson or Irv Smith at #30.

4. Sign Preston Smith.

5. Maybe sign Matthews, depending on money.

[Bretsky]

Hey, if you cut Jimmy Graham you could save 5.8 million for an edge rusher, and you wouldn't really be losing much production at the TE spot!


EV#N IF Green Bay wants to keep Graham, coud somebody explain to me why they don' go back and ask him to take a paycut to say 7 MIL

Would that give us 3MIL more to work with ?

After last year, nobody is signing Graham for 7MIL or more

[wist43]

EV#N IF Green Bay wants to keep Graham, coud somebody explain to me why they don' go back and ask him to take a paycut to say 7 MIL

Would that give us 3MIL more to work with ?

After last year, nobody is signing Graham for 7MIL or more

I thought Graham's problems were more rooted in Rodgers having his head up his ass for most of the season.

I didn't watch as much football as I usually do last year, but when I did take the time to scout Graham, he was open a lot - Rodgers just ignored him for wanting to go deep all the time.

Rodgers was nothing short of a train wreck last year.

[red]

I thought Graham's problems were more rooted in Rodgers having his head up his ass for most of the season.

I didn't watch as much football as I usually do last year, but when I did take the time to scout Graham, he was open a lot - Rodgers just ignored him for wanting to go deep all the time.

Rodgers was nothing short of a train wreck last year.

he looked insanely slow and either refused or no longer could jump to get balls and never fought for balls

for being the biggest guy on the field, he never really played like it

[Joemailman]

he looked insanely slow and either refused or no longer could jump to get balls and never fought for balls

for being the biggest guy on the field, he never really played like it

It looked to me like he couldn't jump because he couldn't push off on the bad knee. After a certain point I think Rodgers stopped throwing anything to him that would be a contested ball. A lot of his catches seemed to be on balls,that he reached up and caught while flat-footed. Maybe Lafleur thinks he can do more to scheme to get him open more. He does have some things going for him. He's 6-7. He has good hands when he doesn't have a broken thumb. He runs good routes.

[Joemailman]

Report that Jags are expected to sign Nick Foles when free agency opens. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26130769/jags-expected-sign-foles-next-week This despite the fact that teams can not talk to free agents until March 11. Make of that what you will.

[pbmax]

It looked to me like he couldn't jump because he couldn't push off on the bad knee. After a certain point I think Rodgers stopped throwing anything to him that would be a contested ball. A lot of his catches seemed to be on balls,that he reached up and caught while flat-footed. Maybe Lafleur thinks he can do more to scheme to get him open more. He does have some things going for him. He's 6-7. He has good hands when he doesn't have a broken thumb. He runs good routes.

Eventually, they went from throwing high to throwing low. But that was only marginally better.

[Deputy Nutz]

Didn't know where else to put this, so because it deals with pass rush, it goes in the FA thread.

Pro Football Focus @PFF
Aaron Donald DOMINATED when rushing the passer last year.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0mWTqJWwAIow-3.jpg

I just made this point in the draft thread. Aaron Donald is one of the best pass rushers I have ever seen and he does it from the interior which is difficult. Good pass rushers are only disrupting 10% to 15% of all pass attempts. I think it is even less in college because of the screen game, and RPOs. It is hard to get a good read on college edge rushers because of this.

[pbmax]

Josh Rosen for a 3rd Round pick?

Kyle Kelly @KyleKellyNFL
.@peter_king saying that Kurt Warner and a “renowned NFL GM” both told him that Josh Rosen’s value is a third round pick. #Cardinals

[Fritz]

Is he better than Deshone Kizer?

[call_me_ishmael]

I think Ed Oliver is going to be a star so he’s my choice if he’s available but I highly doubt he will be. He ailed his public interviews, and everyone expects him to crush 3 come, shuffle and 40.

[Deputy Nutz]

Ed Oliver is not a free agent. I agree with you though. He didn't have the type of season that would make a scout fart, but he could be the next Aaron Donald and that is what every team is hoping to get when they draft him. Some team will take him high, it might be a reach it might also be the smartest pick in the draft.

[pbmax]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Titans are expected to release safety Jonathan Cyprien sometime this week, per source. They would like him back, but for less money.

I thoroughly expect the Packers to sign an Edge even though the market seems to favor a safety in FA.

[pbmax]

No Antonio Brown for the Packers, looks like.


According to Adam Schefter of ESPN, there are three teams that are showing the most interest in Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Antonio Brown and they are the Oakland Raiders, Washington Redskins and Tennessee Titans.

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Report-Packers-not-among-teams-most-interested-in-Antonio-Brown-129686061#

[pbmax]

Clowney is off the board.

John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
The Texans have franchised OLB Jadeveon Clowney.

[pbmax]

2 other pass rushers off the board. They are going to sign a problem and pass on value at safety.

Aaron Wilson @AaronWilson_NFL
NFL franchise tags today: Jadeveon Clowney (Texans), Grady Jarrett (Falcons), DeMarcus Lawrence (Cowboys), Frank Clark (Seahawks)

[pbmax]

And some more:

Albert Breer @AlbertBreer

Winners as tags rain down on pass rushers ...

• Trey Flowers, Patriots
• Ziggy Ansah, Lions
• Preston Smith, Redskins
• Za'Darius Smith, Ravens
• Dante Fowler, Rams

Teams saved $$$ for pass-rush help. And the best looking girls left the bar. But guess who's still there?

[pbmax]

Stand by for confusion

Matt Verderame @MattVerderame
The #Chiefs are releasing Justin Houston, per source.

Matt Verderame @MattVerderame
Here's more on the Justin Houston situation, and a few ideas of where he might end up.
https://t.co/RIAgiot9Zp

Matt Verderame @MattVerderame
To be very clear... The #Chiefs will release Justin Houston. Hasn't been made official, obviously, but they will cut him. I 100 percent stand by my report.

Packer Report @PackerReport
I'm not sure who first reported that the Chiefs have released Justin Houston. It's not true.

Jim Owczarski @JimOwczarski
answering @PackerReport
@MattVerderame

WE HAVE TENSE TROUBLE

[Freak Out]

Whoa.

[pbmax]

Whoa.

http://images.tritondigitalcms.com/6616/sites/199/2017/04/17090209/keanu-whoa.jpg

[pbmax]

Another one bites the dust.

Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero
The #Chiefs have franchise tagged Dee Ford, source said. Another pass rusher off the open market.

[red]

Is he better than Deshone Kizer?

i thought he was the best QB in his draft

he played for a shithole dumpster fire of a team, so i'm not sure he would do well in the current version of the packers

i do think its stupid of the cardinals to move on from him for another rookie. i don't really think this years QB crop is worth a flying shit

[red]

No Antonio Brown for the Packers, looks like.



https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Report-Packers-not-among-teams-most-interested-in-Antonio-Brown-129686061#

man, did you hear the shit coming out of his mouth today or yesterday?

the guy is completely fucked in the head

i've changed my mnd and am now glad we aren't one of the 3 teams left (i doubt theres 3 after his interviews)

[wist43]

Never wanted Brown...

My realistic FA wishlist has narrowed down to Barr, Shaquil Barrett, Preston Smith, and Adrian Amos (S, Chi).

Since you guys talked me into bringing in a safety :)

Would be very happy with Barrett and Amos - and draft another edge guy.

Was down on Burns before, but he really impressed me at the combine.

[red]

Never wanted Brown...

My realistic FA wishlist has narrowed down to Barr, Shaquil Barrett, Preston Smith, and Adrian Amos (S, Chi).

Since you guys talked me into bringing in a safety :)

Would be very happy with Barrett and Amos - and draft another edge guy.

Was down on Burns before, but he really impressed me at the combine.

so you want us to sign a bunch of guys who have been unable to get sacks in their careers, to fix the problem we have getting to the QB

[wist43]

so you want us to sign a bunch of guys who have been unable to get sacks in their careers, to fix the problem we have getting to the QB

I'm higher on Barrett than Smith... Barrett is a guy who developed over time, and I think he has a good shot a being a consistent double digit sack guy. He'll command a decent contract.

Of those 3, Barrett, Barr, and Smith I'd prefer Barrett.

[Bretsky]

I thought Graham's problems were more rooted in Rodgers having his head up his ass for most of the season.

I didn't watch as much football as I usually do last year, but when I did take the time to scout Graham, he was open a lot - Rodgers just ignored him for wanting to go deep all the time.

Rodgers was nothing short of a train wreck last year.



NO WAY

Graham was pretty worthless the second half of the year. Hands average at best. Could not come up with any of the 50/50 balls he used to get. Couldn't beat anybody in the red zone. He may have been hurt; and he may just be getting slow.

10MIL/Year should buy us a borderline elite TE. That is not Graham. I'm not sure he was that fast in the first half of the season either.

He didn't give GB what we needed. Rodgers lost some faith because he was too unreliable

Maybe he heals up and proves me wrong; I hope so.

But he looks more like a 5MIL/year player than a 10MIL/yr

[wist43]

NO WAY

Graham was pretty worthless the second half of the year. Hands average at best. Could not come up with any of the 50/50 balls he used to get. Couldn't beat anybody in the red zone. He may have been hurt; and he may just be getting slow.

10MIL/Year should buy us a borderline elite TE. That is not Graham. I'm not sure he was that fast in the first half of the season either.

He didn't give GB what we needed. Rodgers lost some faith because he was too unreliable

Maybe he heals up and proves me wrong; I hope so.

But he looks more like a 5MIL/year player than a 10MIL/yr

I didn't say he was a 10m/yr player, and I agree he's lost some mojo; but, I dont think he was as bad as the numbers indicate.

I think Rodgers was such a mess last year that it's tough to evaluate anyone on offense.

[pbmax]

Graham apparently went to the UK to get a stem cell treatment not approved in the US before last season.

[call_me_ishmael]

He got the Kobe treatment and still performed like ass? Yikes. He done.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

That agent is getting around:

Michael Cohen
#Packers are definitely pursuing edge rushers in free agency. The question is whether they’ll get priced out of the market as an organization that operates conservatively. Sources believe top OLBs who won’t get tagged/re-signed should command $10 million to $16 million per year.

Safe to say that the German Shepherd made a fuck up of Polar Bear proportions last season with the Mack ordeal.

[pbmax]

Safe to say that the German Shepherd made a fuck up of Polar Bear proportions last season with the Mack ordeal.

I don't think they can rebuild the D with Mack, loss of picks (it would have taken an extra good pick to beat the Bears offer) and his salary. Team is too top heavy as it is.

Would love to have him, don't think that is the path toward the solution.

[pbmax]

This on the other hand, is more my strategy. Replace whoever was responsible (if it wasn't all Kentrell himself) for that passer rating versus your deep safety.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D00FNhNW0AIh7Cm.jpg

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don't think they can rebuild the D with Mack, loss of picks (it would have taken an extra good pick to beat the Bears offer) and his salary. Team is too top heavy as it is.

Would love to have him, don't think that is the path toward the solution.

Mack was the solution, methinks. Draft picks are coin flips and the cap can always be cooked. Coulda been Reggie White all over again had Gute ponied up and done the deed.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers had so many holes on defense the last 3 to 4 years with lack of production from their draft picks that the last two years their high picks were a damned if you take a defensive tackle, and damned if you take a defensive back because it was like trying to plug the Hoover Dam because there were so many holes. Now more holes have sprouted at safety, and gushers at OLB and ILB. The Packers have more holes than seals right now and unless free agency is used correctly I don't think this defense can be of high quality in 2019.

Add the defensive holes plus the right side of the offensive line and the Packers are flooded. What's crazy is talk about a WR or TE in the draft.

The Packers have to spend money in free agency if they want to get this plumbing situation fixed within the year.

[red]

The Packers had so many holes on defense the last 3 to 4 years with lack of production from their draft picks that the last two years their high picks were a damned if you take a defensive tackle, and damned if you take a defensive back because it was like trying to plug the Hoover Dam because there were so many holes. Now more holes have sprouted at safety, and gushers at OLB and ILB. The Packers have more holes than seals right now and unless free agency is used correctly I don't think this defense can be of high quality in 2019.

Add the defensive holes plus the right side of the offensive line and the Packers are flooded. What's crazy is talk about a WR or TE in the draft.

The Packers have to spend money in free agency if they want to get this plumbing situation fixed within the year.

whats crazy is how many high draft picks we've blown on defense over the years

we sure has hell can't draft defensive guys, need to sign some free agents

[run pMc]

Wilkerson walks unless he's back on a cheapo deal; there's a lot of DL depth in the draft so I wouldn't be surprised (or excited) if they drafted one early. Get ready to pay Kenny Clark.
Sign two of J.Houston/P.Smith/S.Barrett/M.Golden/Clay, draft 2 more edge guys, dump Perry
Bring back Morrison, maybe Burks can unglue himself from the bench. Jake Ryan probably isn't coming back. Is Josh Jones a safety or a LB?
Sign Tre Boston, draft another S.
Teams always need corners but unless a good one falls to them I wouldn't spend a high pick. I'm assuming they keep Tramon and try to sign Breeland. They have plenty of youth; it needs to stay healthy and gel.

Let Bulaga play out his last year but draft two or three OL - one to play RG, the others to push Spriggs as Bulaga's replacement. Find competition for Taylor.
They've already committed to Graham, and with this TE draft class they'll probably take a mid round flyer on one. Maybe they sign a cheapo blocking TE or LaFluer recruits Stoecker away from TEN. Not sure if they'll keep 4 TEs or 3 and a FB. sorry, Vitale is not the guy.
Let Cobb walk, draft a late round flyer on a slot WR who can return punts/kicks, bring Davis and Kumerow to camp to compete but they're probably cuts. Tender Allison.
Draft a speedy RB who can run outside zone plus pass routes and catch. Jones can't stay healthy.

[Carolina_Packer]

Mack was the solution, methinks. Draft picks are coin flips and the cap can always be cooked. Coulda been Reggie White all over again had Gute ponied up and done the deed.

It's a smart move for a team with a QB on a rookie deal to go all in once they realize they are one star player from having a shot. The Packers making such a move would have had to pay Mack once acquired, lose draft picks, which as you said are hard to predict, but still needed for a team that is not K-Mack from the Super Bowl (see offensive struggles last year). Then you have (for the moment) the highest paid offensive and defensive players in the league, some nice players and perhaps not a lot of room left to build a roster. You could do it, but it's a risky move if one of them gets hurt.

[pbmax]

Mack was the solution, methinks. Draft picks are coin flips and the cap can always be cooked. Coulda been Reggie White all over again had Gute ponied up and done the deed.

Ask Jerry how his cooked cap situation worked out with HIS defense. He shed players faster than Sherman pursuing Na’il Diggs.

[pbmax]

whats crazy is how many high draft picks we've blown on defense over the years

we sure has hell can't draft defensive guys, need to sign some free agents

That is the $64,000 question. What is wrong with their process on D?

But I think it’s exacerbated by decisions that look much worse in retrospect. Each makes sense on its own timeline but put together it made a mess.

Being wrong about the viability of both Randall and Rollins helped ruin the backend.

[pbmax]

Chad Kelly, dipshit nephew of HoF Jim Kelly was back in court for a trespassing charge. John Elway, GM of the Damned, sighed Chad after being assured by his uncle Jim that he was a good upstanding boy who would never cause an ounce of trouble despite having a fairly long list of offenses in college.

Nicky Jhabvala
Per TMZ, former Broncos QB Chad Kelly was back in court today and entered a plea of not guilty to felony trespassing, stemming from the incident after Von Miller’s Halloween party last year. His next hearing is April 23, according to the Arapahoe County Court docket.

[pbmax]

Ravens cut Eric Weddle. Every safety is available in FA and the Packers will spend $17 mil per year on Trey Flowers or Justin Houston.

[Bretsky]

Ravens cut Eric Weddle. Every safety is available in FA and the Packers will spend $17 mil per year on Trey Flowers or Justin Houston.


They need to grab one of the safeties as well IMO

[wist43]

They need to grab one of the safeties as well IMO

Adrian Amos... it's a double win b/c wr sign a top flight player from a division rival.

[call_me_ishmael]

I love me some Eric Weddle.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/DanGrazianoESPN/status/1103065962583068672


Earl Thomas, Landon Collins, Eric Weddle and Tryann Mathieu are free agents. My goodness. Anyone need a safety?

My first thought: Is safety becoming a less important position where teams are wisening up and realizing the franchise tag esque money is way too high and the production isn't worth it? 12M does seem to be an awful lot for a safety.

[Bretsky]

https://twitter.com/DanGrazianoESPN/status/1103065962583068672



My first thought: Is safety becoming a less important position where teams are wisening up and realizing the franchise tag esque money is way too high and the production isn't worth it? 12M does seem to be an awful lot for a safety.



CB is to SAFETY at OFFENSIVE TACKLE is to OFFENSIVE GUARD

[call_me_ishmael]

Right I know, but the real question is what was going on that the cap number and average payout got so high anyway? I think we can all agree a stud QB is gonna get paid, stud LT, stud edge, etc. But how did the top 5 average salary for a safety get to 14M to begin with and what changed to give teams so much pause at that number that they didn't have 2-3 years ago? My theory - QB and other premium salaries are growing much faster than the cap and teams need to keep the other positions cheaper.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers always do a nice job at drafting the next wide receiver before they are needed. They have failed to do this on defense and on the offensive line. Its not all their fault but most of it is. The Packers have just recently started trading players for draft picks, which I like to see. Getting rid of Clinton-Dix was a great move for a 4th round pick. He wasn't part of the future and his play bottomed out. The Packers have to be quicker to cut or trade away players that aren't working out, and then turn around and find other suitable players and trade away picks as well. Draft picks are like silver dimes in the apocalypse, no matter the round they are more valuable than current NFL starters. The Cardinals are trading away Josh Rosen who they traded up for in last years draft. It stupid but they will lose their ass and maybe get a late first round pick for a QB that has the potential to be the number 1 QB in this year's draft.

They have to stop trying to win with tape and band aids and get back to building a fluid roster of NFL talent.

[Fritz]

I think you're right, Nutz - I think we, too, have to give up our hopes that if they just sign those one or two big-name free agents, the Packers will be in the Super Bowl. This requires trusting that Gutekunst can find the talent to replace the names we're familiar with, and understanding that just because you've heard of someone, that doesn't mean the player is automatically going to be good. Sure, past performance can be one indicator, but lots of the free agents have injury histories or are getting older. I'm not arguing against signing free agents - it is a tool - but your point that the Packers (and their fans) have to be okay with changing the roster with newer, unknown players is a good one.

[Deputy Nutz]

Packers again caught in the same cycle as they were in in the early 2000s, they have a hall of fame QB that can still play at a high level but the clock is ticking, the QB is getting impatient, and so is the fan base. They are a rebuild process with a new GM and new coach and people are already making demands of a Super Bowl. Not an easy position to be in.

[pbmax]

Cardinals will be lucky to get a second. Most early comments are teams will offer a third rounder.

I do wonder how many players are in a position to nab a team draft picks. Dix is young and on his first contract, so he was cheap and Washington was dumb. Even then a first round player netted a fourth. Belichick somehow kept trading pass rushers for picks and getting away with it. Though people were complaining about their pass rush for the last couple of years and now Flower might walk.

But I agree you need to do this if you are going to sign any number of FA because you are not getting compensation picks back. If not for two trades, the Packers would have basically their normal allotment of draft picks. That sounds fine, but they need talent and the more picks the better their chances.

They normally were deep at WR but they missed the reload cycle this time by a year or two. Adams being on board saved them to some degree, but Cobb and Allison weren't available. The young ones were probably too raw. Then Graham did not help much.

I am mostly worried about talent and depth on defense. I think the offense is going to be OK. Lucas Patrick will be the right guard. They need to sort out RT and a third WR. Depth is a must, but that is what the draft is for.

On defense they need immediate help AND depth and its clear either is on the roster at this point.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

It's a smart move for a team with a QB on a rookie deal to go all in once they realize they are one star player from having a shot. The Packers making such a move would have had to pay Mack once acquired, lose draft picks, which as you said are hard to predict, but still needed for a team that is not K-Mack from the Super Bowl (see offensive struggles last year). Then you have (for the moment) the highest paid offensive and defensive players in the league, some nice players and perhaps not a lot of room left to build a roster. You could do it, but it's a risky move if one of them gets hurt.

Add Mack to a mediocre D that includes the likes of Clark, Daniels, Martinez, Alexander, King and perhaps even the Claymaker, and trust me, that D would be good enough, if not great.

The Packers haven’t had a wrecking ball of a pass rusher since McCarthy idiotically moved the Claymaker to ILB. Are you tired of complaining about the lack of consistent pass rush? Mack was the answer.

Only Zeus knows the fates of draft picks, although the math says that the majority of them won’t pan out. Better off with the sure thing in Mack than the draft picks that the math says will more often than not turn out to be Justin Harrells than Macks.

As for the O, it could use another hotshot receiver, but it’s not like the German Shepherd is gonna trade for OBJ. Hook the Great Arm of Butte up with another Asian chick and the O will be fine.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Ask Jerry how his cooked cap situation worked out with HIS defense. He shed players faster than Sherman pursuing Na’il Diggs.

His accountant, err, cap analyst likely sucks. Should’ve hired moi. :)

[call_me_ishmael]

I predict the Packers are very aggressive and add a safety, guard and a pass rusher in free agency, and keep Matthews. Maybe not top of market guys, but I could easily see Eric Weddle brought it along with Justin Houston.

[Deputy Nutz]

Why would they want to keep Clay Matthews?

[call_me_ishmael]

Why would they want to keep Clay Matthews?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[jklowan]

If Clay would sign at a reasonable rate I think he'd be useful. I think at 6 mill a season I want him back and the Pack would as well

[red]

If Clay would sign at a reasonable rate I think he'd be useful. I think at 6 mill a season I want him back and the Pack would as well

he's not worth half that

ever since the roid scandal a few years back, he hasn't done shit

his sack total the last 4 years have been

2015- 6.5 (16 games)
2016- 5 (12 games)
2017- 7.5 (14 games)
2018- 3.5 (16 games)

he also had just 43 sacks over both of the last 2 years


i think too many people have 52 jerseys and see the long blonde hair and somehow think he was the same player he was 5 years ago. he is not. he is a JAG, with pretty long hair at this point

i wouldn't even want him at the vet minimum, its a waste of a roster spot IMO

[pbmax]

As an edge rusher, Matthews might get dumb money. First priority will be to decide about Perry. If he stays for his number (and especially if Graham does) then Matthews is probably gone unless he has no market at all.

[pbmax]

Darian Stewart had two years left on his deal. His release saves the Broncos about $3.6M in cap space. Stacked safety group in free agency this year.

Another safety is available. I am starting to believe wist when he says it doesn’t matter ;)

[Carolina_Packer]

Any interest in Jamie Collins now that he's been let go by Cleveland? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/06/browns-release-jamie-collins/

[pbmax]

Can't make this up ...

Brad Biggs @BradBiggs
The #Bears held another group tryout at Halas Hall today and the team has signed another kicker as former Pitt K Chris Blewitt emerged from the field. Tribune story


#Blewitt

[Bretsky]

Any interest in Jamie Collins now that he's been let go by Cleveland? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/06/browns-release-jamie-collins/

INTERESTED

[bobblehead]

People are saying the Giants let Collins go because he isn't a FS. So what, we need 2 safeties. I haven't seen anything from Josh Jones to make me think he is the answer at SS. If you land Collins you can move King to FS and hope his speed helps him wipe out some pass plays the Safety position is filled. Teams aren't valuing guys like Collins so hopefully you can land him for 3/30. I'll take him over an old TE that can't block. Added bonus for king, at FS he might not have to take on much in the run game and he might stay healthy. It really comes down to if King is smart enough to play FS. Otherwise I would use TWill there for one more year if no one steps up.

[wist43]

People are saying the Giants let Collins go because he isn't a FS. So what, we need 2 safeties. I haven't seen anything from Josh Jones to make me think he is the answer at SS. If you land Collins you can move King to FS and hope his speed helps him wipe out some pass plays the Safety position is filled. Teams aren't valuing guys like Collins so hopefully you can land him for 3/30. I'll take him over an old TE that can't block. Added bonus for king, at FS he might not have to take on much in the run game and he might stay healthy. It really comes down to if King is smart enough to play FS. Otherwise I would use TWill there for one more year if no one steps up.

Am I the only one on the Amos bandwagon??

Collins would be an upgrade, as would Thomas... but I'd take Amos over both of those guys.

[Deputy Nutz]

Wist, I don't think it matters all that much as who, but at what price. The Packers need an upgrade at safety so if Amos is the most affordable then I like him.

[pbmax]

Williams isn't going to last long back at safety. But he could be the stopgap.

However, I think FS is the bigger need and I am not sure the Packers (or myself) trust the job to Jackson or King. I think you can cobble together a SS rotation.

I would also want to prioritize Breeland back at CB if it fits salary wise. I doubt they want to offer him more money than they would have last year when they lost out to Carolina, but maybe the same deal gets it done?

You get Breeland back with King, Alexander, Williams, Jackson and that street FA who looked competitive at the end of last year (I have lost track of his name) and I like that position. Its only one FA and its your own guy at a mid level price. The only thing arguing against that is a much better offer elsewhere OR the Packers committing solely to the 2 draft picks from last year. And that probably depends on whether they think Jackson is a CB or safety going forward.

So top 6 FA FS and Breeland. Gonna cost between $18-20 mil per year (Breeland's last deal was 3/24).

[pbmax]

EDIT: This post is a false alarm. Cobb has not been signed.

Apparently a story broke yesterday that the Patriots tried to trade for Cobb last year. And somehow Wilde thought it was a good time to retell the story of missing out on breaking Cobb's LAST contact signing with the Packers.

Cobb to Patriots? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/07/report-patriots-inquired-about-randall-cobb-last-year/


Original message:

Randall Cobb has apparently re-signed with the Packers. I did not expect that.

Maybe La Fleur's offense needs him but I bet his was getting no offers at the Combine. Bet this deal is a cheapie.

[Joemailman]

he's not worth half that

ever since the roid scandal a few years back, he hasn't done shit

his sack total the last 4 years have been

2015- 6.5 (16 games)
2016- 5 (12 games)
2017- 7.5 (14 games)
2018- 3.5 (16 games)

he also had just 43 sacks over both of the last 2 years


i think too many people have 52 jerseys and see the long blonde hair and somehow think he was the same player he was 5 years ago. he is not. he is a JAG, with pretty long hair at this point

i wouldn't even want him at the vet minimum, its a waste of a roster spot IMO

I don't know anyone who thinks Clay is the same player he was 5 years ago. Not sure who you talk to.

If you look only at sacks, he looks bad. But he was also #1 on Packers in QB hits, #4 in TFL, and #1 among OLB's in tackles. Don't have the numbers on pressures, although if he had that many QB hits, it stands to reason he was getting pressures. He's certainly worth more than the vet minimum, although it's hard to gauge his market right now.

[red]

EDIT: This post is a false alarm. Cobb has not been signed.

Apparently a story broke yesterday that the Patriots tried to trade for Cobb last year. And somehow Wilde thought it was a good time to retell the story of missing out on breaking Cobb's LAST contact signing with the Packers.

Cobb to Patriots? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/07/report-patriots-inquired-about-randall-cobb-last-year/


Original message:

Randall Cobb has apparently re-signed with the Packers. I did not expect that.

Maybe La Fleur's offense needs him but I bet his was getting no offers at the Combine. Bet this deal is a cheapie.

Why in the hell dis we not trade him when we had the chance?

I just thought he should be flat out cut the last couple of years, and here it turns out we could have gotten something for him

My god, who at 1265 has this massive boner for these guys getting paid a ton, but producing next to nothing?

[red]

I don't know anyone who thinks Clay is the same player he was 5 years ago. Not sure who you talk to.

If you look only at sacks, he looks bad. But he was also #1 on Packers in QB hits, #4 in TFL, and #1 among OLB's in tackles. Don't have the numbers on pressures, although if he had that many QB hits, it stands to reason he was getting pressures. He's certainly worth more than the vet minimum, although it's hard to gauge his market right now.


#1 in tackles by OLBs isn’t saying much with the group we had last year

#4 in tackles for loss on the team is terrible for a guy who’s job is to be in the backfield on almost every play

How was he in QB hurries?

[Joemailman]

#1 in tackles by OLBs isn’t saying much with the group we had last year

#4 in tackles for loss on the team is terrible for a guy who’s job is to be in the backfield on almost every play

How was he in QB hurries?

Except he isn't. The role of the OLB's is different in Pettine's scheme. https://madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/nick-perry-clay-matthews-look-for-more-production-while-not/article_0982ea1f-04a6-5cce-8ded-20e9986bc58a.html
It was true when Pettine was DC in New York as well. Pettine stresses inside pressure.

[RashanGary]

I think Thomas would be a good signing. He’ll play well till 35. He’s that good.

[Joemailman]

Chiefs have released Justin Houston. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001021058/article/end-of-an-era-chiefs-cut-veteran-lb-justin-houston

[red]

Chiefs have released Justin Houston. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001021058/article/end-of-an-era-chiefs-cut-veteran-lb-justin-houston

Hmmm

I’m interested

[Joemailman]

Hmmm

I’m interested

Houston Or Ford?

Ford is younger and more explosive at this point. However, he would probably cost a 2nd round pick and more money

Houston hasn't had double-digit sacks since 2014. However, he did have 5 FF, and PFF rated him the #14 EDGE rusher in 2018.

[Bretsky]

Houston Or Ford?

Ford is younger and more explosive at this point. However, he would probably cost a 2nd round pick and more money

Houston hasn't had double-digit sacks since 2014. However, he did have 5 FF, and PFF rated him the #14 EDGE rusher in 2018.


I would go Houston and keep the picks
I'd draft an Edge with one of our top 3 picks for sure

And I'd use part of the funds saves for an OG in free agency as well.

The Packer Beat Writes are convinced GB is going to do something fast in FA so they can waive Nick Perry and avoid paying him a roster bonus shortly due

Should be interesting