The Official Fire Mike Pettine Thread

[Anti-Polar Bear]

In the finale against the Lions of Detroit at the historical Lambeau Field, gunslinger and nice guy Matt Stafford successfully defended his doctoral dissertation, "Pistol Force: How to Expose, Exploit and Exterminate Dom Capers' Defense...Presnap."

That game serves as a testament to the indebunkable notion of Pettine's defense existing merely as a carbon copy of Capers' defense. Before any jerk argues that Pettine coordinated an NFL E defense that day, allow me to say that Stafford played with an Alliance of American Football offensive line, an XFL receiving crop and, gasp, a caucasoid RB. It was fair game through and through.

While Pettine's D is indeed a carbon copy of Capers' - Just ask Matt Stafford - at least Capers knew how to annihilate wanker QBs. Pettine's D made C.J. Beathard look like Pat "Black Favre" Mahomes. It made Trubisky look like Moses. Made Darnold look like Aaron Rodgers. And Josh Fucking Rosen - unlike A-Rod, whose humble upbringing meant that he had to forgo braces as a kid - was not supposed to experience success in the NFL due to his privileged background. Pettine's D allowed Rosen to move the chain on, gasp, 3rd and 23 in the clutch, making Rosen look like, well, a successful NFL QB along the way.

LaFluer over J-Mac: a colossal mistake. Ditto, Pettine's retention.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't agree with your effusive praise for McDaniels and your pre-emptive condemnation of Lafleur. However, to a degree, what you say about Pettine and the performance of his D is valid. Clearly, I was not one of those wanting to get rid of Capers, although similar to McCarthy, it reached a point where he probably needed to go. I would also disagree that Pettine's D is a "carbon copy" of Capers'.

The fact is, though, the Packers D performed WORSE under Pettine while having arguably better personnel last year than the previous few years under Capers. I'm not ready to call for firing Pettine - yet anyway, but I'm certainly not very enthusiastic about keeping him.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don't agree with your effusive praise for McDaniels and your pre-emptive condemnation of Lafleur. However, to a degree, what you say about Pettine and the performance of his D is valid. Clearly, I was not one of those wanting to get rid of Capers, although similar to McCarthy, it reached a point where he probably needed to go. I would also disagree that Pettine's D is a "carbon copy" of Capers'.

The fact is, though, the Packers D performed WORSE under Pettine while having arguably better personnel last year than the previous few years under Capers. I'm not ready to call for firing Pettine - yet anyway, but I'm certainly not very enthusiastic about keeping him.

Capers D was predictable - Stafford had little problems dissecting Capers' blitzes. Couldn't get off the field on 3rd downs. The OLBs were impotent. Elite and semi-elite QBs ate the D alive easily. Sounds a lot like Pettine's D to me.

Slight difference is, Capers was awesome at feeding on wanker QBs.

[texaspackerbacker]

Capers was feast or famine, and yeah, I suppose in his later years teams figured him out more. I would suggest that more QBs seemed like "wankers" when the personnel was better/Clay Matthews was younger, etc.

Pettine reminds me of a baseball hitter with "warning track power". His blitzes usually only came close, while thinning out the pass coverage - as any blitz does.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Capers was feast or famine, and yeah, I suppose in his later years teams figured him out more. I would suggest that more QBs seemed like "wankers" when the personnel was better/Clay Matthews was younger, etc.

Pettine reminds me of a baseball hitter with "warning track power". His blitzes usually only came close, while thinning out the pass coverage - as any blitz does.

Watch films of both defenses. I bet if you were in hibernation all season long, and popped in the films upon waking up, you wouldn't be able to tell any differences.

[mraynrand]

Watch films of both defenses. I bet if you were in hibernation all season long, and popped in the films upon waking up, you wouldn't be able to tell any differences.

It totally depends on the personnel. The Packers had nothing left at the end of this season.

[pbmax]

Watch films of both defenses. I bet if you were in hibernation all season long, and popped in the films upon waking up, you wouldn't be able to tell any differences.

His in-game adjustments were better. His PA was better. But it was not light years ahead, I'll give you that.

But as Rand said, injuries hollowed out depth again, and decimated the secondary and D line starters.

[texaspackerbacker]

I seem to recall some bad D games even earlier, before the injury bug got so bad at the end. I also remember a LOT of blitzes that didn't quite get home. For all the faults people are so fond of bringing up with Capers, it seemed that a better percentage of his sacks actually got to the QB. The thing I liked about him was the blitzing in comparison to the plain vanilla D the Packers had with some other D coordinators. The unsuccessful blitzing with Pettine almost made me want to go back to the plain vanilla stuff.

[pbmax]

I seem to recall some bad D games even earlier, before the injury bug got so bad at the end. I also remember a LOT of blitzes that didn't quite get home. For all the faults people are so fond of bringing up with Capers, it seemed that a better percentage of his sacks actually got to the QB. The thing I liked about him was the blitzing in comparison to the plain vanilla D the Packers had with some other D coordinators. The unsuccessful blitzing with Pettine almost made me want to go back to the plain vanilla stuff.

Packers were tied for 8th in sacks this year. Capers was tied for 17th last year.

Interestingly, the Packers were a more efficient defense last year in DVOA. 29th this year (+10.0%) after having been 20th the year before (+4.9%). However, it was all the run defenses fault for the lower score. Went from 7th ranked to 23rd ranked.

[red]

can't fire pettine, he's the only guy on the staff with any head coaching experience at all at any level

[pbmax]

BTW, I consider this year's run defense proof that the 2-4-5 nickel was the superior run D.

3-3-5 is just too soft and small.

[Fritz]

In the finale against the Lions of Detroit at the historical Lambeau Field, gunslinger and nice guy Matt Stafford successfully defended his doctoral dissertation, "Pistol Force: How to Expose, Exploit and Exterminate Dom Capers' Defense...Presnap."

That game serves as a testament to the indebunkable notion of Pettine's defense existing merely as a carbon copy of Capers' defense. Before any jerk argues that Pettine coordinated an NFL E defense that day, allow me to say that Stafford played with an Alliance of American Football offensive line, an XFL receiving crop and, gasp, a caucasoid RB. It was fair game through and through.

While Pettine's D is indeed a carbon copy of Capers' - Just ask Matt Stafford - at least Capers knew how to annihilate wanker QBs. Pettine's D made C.J. Beathard look like Pat "Black Favre" Mahomes. It made Trubisky look like Moses. Made Darnold look like Aaron Rodgers. And Josh Fucking Rosen - unlike A-Rod, whose humble upbringing meant that he had to forgo braces as a kid - was not supposed to experience success in the NFL due to his privileged background. Pettine's D allowed Rosen to move the chain on, gasp, 3rd and 23 in the clutch, making Rosen look like, well, a successful NFL QB along the way.

LaFluer over J-Mac: a colossal mistake. Ditto, Pettine's retention.

The beautiful thing about claiming that not hiring your guy was a "colossal mistake" is that it can't be disproven.

[Pugger]

can't fire pettine, he's the only guy on the staff with any head coaching experience at all at any level

Yeah, but he stunk as a HC too. It looks like we are screwed with this crappy coaching staff we are assembling.

[pbmax]

It would be ironic if the insertion of Murphy into the football operation in terms of hiring finally did in the Ron Wolf family of scouts in Green Bay.

Since everyone agrees (exaggerated to me) that there is a talent deficiency, I could envision a scenario where Gute is under more pressure than the new coach.

[mraynrand]

Yeah, but he stunk as a HC too. It looks like we are screwed with this crappy coaching staff we are assembling.

Pettine as HC is more complex than 'he sucked' Remember, his OC was none other than Kyle Shanahan and his number one draft picks were Gilbert and (not chosen by him) Manziel. Following a could of poor games by Steny Hoyer, the owner pushed for Manzier to start and play the rest of the season. Browns went from 7-4 to 7-9. Shanny left (defillipo came in) basically because he didn't have control over who got to play, etc. That's an organizational problem. Pettine was undermined by the owner, as far as I know.

[Fritz]

Pettine as HC is more complex than 'he sucked' Remember, his OC was none other than Kyle Shanahan and his number one draft picks were Gilbert and (not chosen by him) Manziel. Following a could of poor games by Steny Hoyer, the owner pushed for Manzier to start and play the rest of the season. Browns went from 7-4 to 7-9. Shanny left (defillipo came in) basically because he didn't have control over who got to play, etc. That's an organizational problem. Pettine was undermined by the owner, as far as I know.

Ah, so he'll understand when Murphy pops into his office and tells Pettine he wants to see that fourth-round defensive tackle play a little more next game?

[Smidgeon]

Yeah, but he stunk as a HC too. It looks like we are screwed with this crappy coaching staff we are assembling.

This staff isn't any worse (that we know of) than Holmgren's (a point which has already been made). The difference is hindsight. At least give them a couple years before you throw in the towel.

[Carolina_Packer]

Can it be schematic? I guess. Is it mostly personnel, whether the talent they broke camp with or the talent they ended the season with, the defense clearly doesn't have enough difference makers when it comes to putting pressure on the QB. People were wondering about that going through the last offseason. Where are the guys who can win one on one battles?

Was Fangio a better DC because the Bears traded for Khalil Mack who had a ripple effect on the performance of the defense? Players, not plays! BG, go get the players needed and I'm confident that Pettine can get them coached up.

[mraynrand]

Ah, so he'll understand when Murphy pops into his office and tells Pettine he wants to see that fourth-round defensive tackle play a little more next game?

you bet he will.

"Jump? How high, Sir?"

[pbmax]

Can it be schematic? I guess. Is it mostly personnel, whether the talent they broke camp with or the talent they ended the season with, the defense clearly doesn't have enough difference makers when it comes to putting pressure on the QB. People were wondering about that going through the last offseason. Where are the guys who can win one on one battles?

Was Fangio a better DC because the Bears traded for Khalil Mack who had a ripple effect on the performance of the defense? Players, not plays! BG, go get the players needed and I'm confident that Pettine can get them coached up.

Scheme can only take you so far. It solves some problems and gives some teams matchup problems (and vice versa). But the coaches must also get the players playing in unison, no more communication problems while also maintaining the ability to adjust. Most of coaching is a series of paradoxes.

But talent plays a role here. While I am not convinced the top line start talent is that far off from previous years, there has definitely been a talent drain and its seen mostly in the lack of depth at safety, LB and O line. So the Packers looked better on D, especially after adjustments early in the season only to fall apart after injuries.

[bobblehead]

can't fire pettine, he's the only guy on the staff with any head coaching experience at all at any level

If someone fired your boss and put new blood in there who had never done it before might it work really well?

[mraynrand]

It would be ironic if the insertion of Murphy into the football operation in terms of hiring finally did in the Ron Wolf family of scouts in Green Bay.

Since everyone agrees (exaggerated to me) that there is a talent deficiency, I could envision a scenario where Gute is under more pressure than the new coach.

I think there's been a lot of turnover in the scouting department already. Isn't the head of college scouting that Matt Mansplaining guy they hired from SF a couple years back?

Also, Charlie Peprah isn't a Wolf guy.

Unless you mean Eliot Wolf?

I hope Murphy is not involved all that much in player personnel, except to nod and look at the finance people and say yay or nay to whether they can afford some FA or long-term contract.

[pbmax]

I think there's been a lot of turnover in the scouting department already. Isn't the head of college scouting that Matt Mansplaining guy they hired from SF a couple years back?

Also, Charlie Peprah isn't a Wolf guy.

Unless you mean Eliot Wolf?

I hope Murphy is not involved all that much in player personnel, except to nod and look at the finance people and say yay or nay to whether they can afford some FA or long-term contract.

It is less Wolfian than before, but some of that is simply time passing and ol' Ron not training any new scouts. You've probably got more scouts trained by Ted, Reggie or John.

But I mean Gute could be the next head on the chopping block if things continue to head south and he doesn't deliver via the draft.

The one big move away from Wolf/Thompson is the Ravens dude they are supposed to be hiring this offseason to be Gute's right hand.

[red]

If someone fired your boss and put new blood in there who had never done it before might it work really well?

I might, but there would also be a bit of a learning period

[Pugger]

This staff isn't any worse (that we know of) than Holmgren's (a point which has already been made). The difference is hindsight. At least give them a couple years before you throw in the towel.

I guess all the negative crap I'm reading on various message boards is influencing me.

[Joemailman]

I guess all the negative crap I'm reading on various message boards is influencing me.

Some people seem unable to realize that good coaches sometimes come from poor or mediocre teams. The 49ers were the worst offense in the NFL during Mike McCarthy's year there. 2 years later the Packers were in the playoffs, and 5 years later were Super Bowl champs. The Redskins were a sub-.500 team overall in the 3 years Sean McVay was OC there before he went to LA. Bill Belichick had 4 losing seasons out of 5 in Cleveland before going to New England. Players matter and organizations matter.

[mraynrand]

Some people seem unable to realize that good coaches sometimes come from poor or mediocre teams. The 49ers were the worst offense in the NFL during Mike McCarthy's year there. 2 years later the Packers were in the playoffs, and 5 years later were Super Bowl champs. The Redskins were a sub-.500 team overall in the 3 years Sean McVay was OC there before he went to LA. Bill Belichick had 4 losing seasons out of 5 in Cleveland before going to New England. Players matter and organizations matter.

Kyle Shannahan and John DeFilippo were OCs for Cleveland in 2014 and 2015, respectively.

[Bretsky]

I guess all the negative crap I'm reading on various message boards is influencing me.


It's natural to wonder how strong of a staff Matty can put together. It's a real concern

[pbmax]

I am with everyone here and understand the doubts. Until Kyle S took over in Atlanta and then had a breakout year in SF, I thought he was Brian Schottenheimer.

There is no way to be sure. I said the odds of improving on the coach were 30%. I wasn't joking.

But he is what I would prefer in a new hire for HC. A Ted candidate. Young, with high upside and he got a good candidate to fill the most necessary position on the team after himself, a quality DC.

[Joemailman]

Bump. Just in case we need it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I might be on the bandwagon. Part of the problem is poor tackling, but it seems like stars always beat our defense. Notice Billy B's defense almost always take away the opponent's #1 weapon (see Darren Waller today).

[Bretsky]

I might be on the bandwagon. Part of the problem is poor tackling, but it seems like stars always beat our defense. Notice Billy B's defense almost always take away the opponent's #1 weapon (see Darren Waller today).

Waller looked unstoppable last week

Then today he met Hoody

[run pMc]

I'm coming around to this too. IMO the defense has some weaknesses that are and always will be schematic.
It's really tough because the rules definitely favor offenses, but they have given up a LOT of points/yards this year.

[Bossman641]

The DL is extremely underwhelming, but it sure feels like the D is playing more poorly then the sum of it's parts.

[Joemailman]

I wonder what Lafleur is thinking right now. It might be an overstatement to day Pettine was forced on him, but not much of one.

[bobblehead]

I doubt he was forced on him, but I think he might be shown the door at seasons end. Brees and the Saints chopped Pettines D up pretty good.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll wait until Clark is back for a couple games before judging the Packers D and Pettine. Also, we should see some addition by subtraction is Kirksey is out and Summers and/or Barns or even Burks takes his place. All three of them were better Sunday than Kirksey even when he is healthy.

[Bossman641]

Big game.... Defense no-shows. I can't handle Pettine any longer.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Big game.... Defense no-shows. I can't handle Pettine any longer.

Word.

[smuggler]

I'm onboard with the fire Pettine plan.

[Bretsky]

I am on board with get some dam talent at ilb after the bucs ilbs made us their bitches

[Joemailman]

Not everything that happened today can be blamed on the defense. But in this NFL, you can't be a good defense if you can't force turnovers.

[RashanGary]

I am on board with get some dam talent at ilb after the bucs ilbs made us their bitches

Devin White is a friggin animal. Most physically dominant ILB in the league right now. Holy shit!

[gbgary]

yup...it's time. appoint jerry gray as his replacement.

[GB-Brandon]

We’re always a day late and a dollar short. Should of been let go immediately after the Niners debacle. He showed he is completely incompetent!!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

This is an idea worth considering, although 4-1 after 13-3, and likely to end up 13-3 or better this is not the kind of thing to lead to getting fired.

Jerry Gray or anybody else, I want to make damn sure what type of D any new guy would use. Just look at McCarthy's guy in Dallas - absolutely fucking up a pretty good team. We better not get somebody who de-emphasizes blitzing and pass rush. It seems like Pettine himself, though, has lessened that this season, either that or the Smiths have just deteriorated since last season. Somebody needs to analyze why we aren't getting a pass rush. I remember there would be an occasional inside blitz from Martinez or Joey Thomas in the past. There hasn't been any of that this year. Could it be we miss Martinez more than some detractors think? Maybe Barnes just hasn't learned that aspect yet. Whatever the case, it needs to be fixed.

This no turnovers thing is getting old too. One theory - that I generally subscribe to - is that getting turnovers is a matter of either LUCK or blunders by the other team. I don't know, is there any sure fire way to make turnovers happen? If there is, somebody here post it - cuz I'm sure Pettine and LaFleur and Gutekunst read every word posted here, even Brandon's.

[Sparkey]

Watching Preston Smith play this year, he is either playing hurt, has some family issues that are distracting him or is being used wrong by Pettine.

I mean, he doesn't even try to tackle anyone. It's like watching someone going thru the motions.

[RashanGary]

Preston and billy turnstile are prime candidates for cutting next year. Bakhtiari is a prime candidate for the franchise tag

[GB-Brandon]

This is an idea worth considering, although 4-1 after 13-3, and likely to end up 13-3 or better this is not the kind of thing to lead to getting fired.

Jerry Gray or anybody else, I want to make damn sure what type of D any new guy would use. Just look at McCarthy's guy in Dallas - absolutely fucking up a pretty good team. We better not get somebody who de-emphasizes blitzing and pass rush. It seems like Pettine himself, though, has lessened that this season, either that or the Smiths have just deteriorated since last season. Somebody needs to analyze why we aren't getting a pass rush. I remember there would be an occasional inside blitz from Martinez or Joey Thomas in the past. There hasn't been any of that this year. Could it be we miss Martinez more than some detractors think? Maybe Barnes just hasn't learned that aspect yet. Whatever the case, it needs to be fixed.

This no turnovers thing is getting old too. One theory - that I generally subscribe to - is that getting turnovers is a matter of either LUCK or blunders by the other team. I don't know, is there any sure fire way to make turnovers happen? If there is, somebody here post it - cuz I'm sure Pettine and LaFleur and Gutekunst read every word posted here, even Brandon's.

The thing is Pass Rush and turnovers kind of go hand in hand. Get pass rush and balls get forced and tipped Etc Etc which creates more opportunities for turnovers. It all starts with pass rush!!

[GB-Brandon]

Watching Preston Smith play this year, he is either playing hurt, has some family issues that are distracting him or is being used wrong by Pettine.

I mean, he doesn't even try to tackle anyone. It's like watching someone going thru the motions.

I’ve been posting about it. He is pulling a Nick Perry!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

The thing is Pass Rush and turnovers kind of go hand in hand. Get pass rush and balls get forced and tipped Etc Etc which creates more opportunities for turnovers. It all starts with pass rush!!

Duh. That's why I absolutely don't want a D Coordinator who de-emphasizes all out pass rush/blitz packages. It seems like Pettine has toned it down in that area this season - which is why I would consider joining the "fire Pettine" crowd.

[GB-Brandon]

Duh. That's why I absolutely don't want a D Coordinator who de-emphasizes all out pass rush/blitz packages. It seems like Pettine has toned it down in that area this season - which is why I would consider joining the "fire Pettine" crowd.

We talked about this after the Niners game. He should already be gone!! He had a year with McCarthy and they gave him a year with LaFleur. They have given the guy high priced free agents and draft picks galore. Picks i’m sure he was salivating over!!!

He hasn’t put it together and now the regression is taking place. This is what happens when you lack accountability in an organization. This isn’t the minor leagues!! We’re getting close to where what it used to be and with all this $ and picks that is just unacceptable!!!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

You're assuming he has been bad at his job. 13-3 and 4-1 say he hasn't been that bad. The only problem is he is trending to the worse side. And those super FAs are not looking nearly as super this season - for whatever reason.

[GB-Brandon]

You're assuming he has been bad at his job. 13-3 and 4-1 say he hasn't been that bad. The only problem is he is trending to the worse side. And those super FAs are not looking nearly as super this season - for whatever reason.

In big games he has been horrible. Both the Niners game last year with the second one being completely unacceptable. The defense also fell apart in the second half against the Seahawks in a game that we were in total control of and made it way closer then it needed to be. The offense basically had to seal the deal by getting first downs to close it out.

My issue is they still couldn’t stop the run last year. They had one big game late in the season against Minnesota(Delvin Cook was hurt) which got everyone on the bandwagon just to get completely run over in the playoffs. Pettine can’t or is unwilling to adjust in game correctly to off-set issues.

If you remember they were talking “Championship Defense” Blah Blah Blah. They sold out everything for it and it isn’t anything close to a Fucken “Championship Defense.” In fact it’s becoming a giant mess again if anything. I’m just tired of it.

I knew before the season Pettine wasn’t the man and here we are talking about firing him. So we have basically wasted a season with this guy.

[GB-Brandon]

We keep wasting seasons and Rodgers is gonna be 40 soon!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

What D Coordinator/what defensive scheme around the league has been significantly better than the Packers this season, given the quality of players they have had to work with? I can't really think of any. The league is geared to emphasizing offense - rules, calls, etc. A lot of teams have given up a lot of points and yards. Every attempt to replace a D Coordinator with somebody new has resulted in something worse than before or at least no improvement.

Be careful what you wish for. Pettine ain't that bad.

[Bossman641]

The D does not do a single thing well at this point. Turnovers? Nope. QB pressure? Nope? Red zone stops? No, they are giving up TD's at one of the highest rates in the league.

[Joemailman]

Duh. That's why I absolutely don't want a D Coordinator who de-emphasizes all out pass rush/blitz packages. It seems like Pettine has toned it down in that area this season - which is why I would consider joining the "fire Pettine" crowd.

Packers are blitzing slightly more this year than last year. They're just not as effective. Pressures are down by about a third.

[Joemailman]

The D does not do a single thing well at this point. Turnovers? Nope. QB pressure? Nope? Red zone stops? No, they are giving up TD's at one of the highest rates in the league.

I think it all gets down to pressure. Turnovers and red zone stops are lacking because opposing QB's aren't being forced and hurried into bad throws. It's tough to be a Packers DB this year.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Devin White is a friggin animal. Most physically dominant ILB in the league right now. Holy shit!

Yep. He was a monster in college too. All it takes is the 5th overall pick to get a player like that.

[bobblehead]

I'm on board with firing Pettine, but lets be clear about one thing. They were not responsible for sunday. Rodgers had a stinker of a game. He was on MVP pace. He will continue to have a great season. The defense will continue to have issues. But over reacting to one game where our QB played his worst game in years is...well, what fans do.

[RashanGary]

I wouldn’t say, “the defense will continue to have issues” just yet. Let’s see what happens coming up. They got better as the year went on last year

[texaspackerbacker]

Packers are blitzing slightly more this year than last year. They're just not as effective. Pressures are down by about a third.

I assume you have stats to back that up? Because it sure as hell ain't noticeable. I see a lot of Z. Smith just slowly penetrating, acting like a D Lineman, but I'm talking about (and maybe you remember) those mad rush Martinez or Thomas inside rushes we used to have or an occasional DB blitz like how Jaire got us that safety - which apparently he did on his own. They shoulda incorporated that into the scheme at times.

[Bossman641]

I'm on board with firing Pettine, but lets be clear about one thing. They were not responsible for sunday. Rodgers had a stinker of a game. He was on MVP pace. He will continue to have a great season. The defense will continue to have issues. But over reacting to one game where our QB played his worst game in years is...well, what fans do.

They certainly weren't single handedly responsible but they also haven't been contributing to wins. They haven't forced a turnover since the Saints game and even that was more a botched play by Hill versus anything the defense did. They're allowing red zone TD's 76% of the time which is 29th in the league.

[Joemailman]

I assume you have stats to back that up? Because it sure as hell ain't noticeable. I see a lot of Z. Smith just slowly penetrating, acting like a D Lineman, but I'm talking about (and maybe you remember) those mad rush Martinez or Thomas inside rushes we used to have or an occasional DB blitz like how Jaire got us that safety - which apparently he did on his own. They shoulda incorporated that into the scheme at times.

Guys like Savage, Greene and Barnes are blitzing. They're not getting through though.

[GB-Brandon]

Savage has regressed which is just horrible. Not sure what’s going on. He had such a promising rookie year. He was supposed to be this uber talented player with superstar instincts and I gotta tell ya his instincts are very very questionable at this time. He is all over place and not in the right place half the time and something is not right. He is not fulfilling his assignments consistently!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Amos doesn’t look like anything like he did when he played for the Bears or even at times last year. He might be trending down at 27. He just isn’t the same player. He used to be way more explosive. Something isn’t right!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Throw in the disappearance of Preston Smith and you can see why the defense has regressed so much!!!

[Bretsky]

Does rashan Gary make Petrine better ?

[GB-Brandon]

Does rashan Gary make Petrine better ?

Depends if we’re talking about work out videos or actually playing football!!

[Joemailman]

Bump.

[Bretsky]

Is Pettine any better ?

[Freak Out]

Brutal day.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm on board. Let's get one of these hot shot candidates a shot.

[texaspackerbacker]

The way they played today, yeah, I'd certainly be ok with getting rid of Pettine. With the lame-assed D personnel we have, especially in the line, I'm not so sure somebody else would make much difference.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm on board. Let's get one of these hot shot candidates a shot.

Like who? I have no idea who the up and coming folks are.

[texaspackerbacker]

Jim Leonhard is one, but I think I'd rather see him with the Badgers.

It's as much or more a matter of D philosophy as anything else. I absolutely don't want a D Coordinator who plays it too straight up/avoids a lot of blitzing, etc. because the Packers just don't have the personnel to line up and beat teams.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Jim Leonhard is one, but I think I'd rather see him with the Badgers.

It's as much or more a matter of D philosophy as anything else. I absolutely don't want a D Coordinator who plays it too straight up/avoids a lot of blitzing, etc. because the Packers just don't have the personnel to line up and beat teams.

Leonhard runs the same milksop D Pettine does, the Rex Ryan Bullshit.

Bring in Al Harris!

[Freak Out]

May as well fire the guy. His squad has been embarrassed far to many times.

[texaspackerbacker]

What kind of D does Al Harris have? Yeah, I suppose maybe Leonhard is in the same mold as Pettine. That's what I mean. I don't want to depart very far from that mold. If you have good enough personnel, it works fine; If not, it doesn't.

I see how a more traditional guy like Mike Nolan has totally fucked up the Cowboys D, and I absolutely don't want that sort of scheme for the Packers.

[Joemailman]

May as well fire the guy. His squad has been embarrassed far to many times.

If Thursday night goes bad, he could be gone. Packers will then have 10 days until their next game. Best time to make a coaching change.

[Bossman641]

Bring black Dom Capers!!!

[Joemailman]

If they were to make a change, Jerry Gray would likely be the guy. He's been a DC with 2 different teams.

[Sparkey]

If Pettine and Co. are failing to relay the importance of basics like penalties, gap integrity and form tackling, where else is the staff failing?

That is a 2015 quote from an article in regard to Pettine's time as HC for the Cleveland Browns. Sound familiar ?

[Patler]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. LaFleur's first big executive decision, apart from establishing his initial staff. He sounds frustrated/disappointed. Will he take quick action, or wait until the offseason?

I do question the benefit of changing now.
Is the problem personnel or scheme?
Not much can be changed in personnel at this point.
How much can scheme be changed midstream with existing personnel?

Seems like changing now can have a positive impact mostly if you think the problem is coaching/leadership, and that existing personnel within the installed scheme can be significantly more effective with better leadership, game plans and adjustments.

Seems like Packer defenses have been disappointing for all but a couple years in the last 50 years.

[Sparkey]

Further into the same article:

We won't get too far into Cleveland's issues with tackling and containment on defense (that's another long and disappointing story).

It may not make a difference, but it more than likely can't get much worse. Right ?

[run pMc]

If they were to make a change, Jerry Gray would likely be the guy. He's been a DC with 2 different teams.

This was my thought. Not sure how different of a scheme he'd run, but he has DC experience and at one point was a HC candidate.

[run pMc]

Further into the same article:

We won't get too far into Cleveland's issues with tackling and containment on defense (that's another long and disappointing story).

It may not make a difference, but it more than likely can't get much worse. Right ?

Link, please.

[Sparkey]

Link, please.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2582776-is-it-time-for-the-cleveland-browns-to-put-mike-pettine-on-the-hot-seat

[run pMc]

What kind of D does Al Harris have? Yeah, I suppose maybe Leonhard is in the same mold as Pettine. That's what I mean. I don't want to depart very far from that mold. If you have good enough personnel, it works fine; If not, it doesn't.

I see how a more traditional guy like Mike Nolan has totally fucked up the Cowboys D, and I absolutely don't want that sort of scheme for the Packers.

No idea about Harris, or any other candidates. I'm skeptical of defenses that have gimmicks as their basis. The Ryan defenses have IMO always been feast or famine -- they are either really strong or really leaky. I feel like GB's is pretty leaky at this point.

I don't think they lack talent, I just feel like they don't play smart or as a cohesive unit. Who are the best players on defense, and how do they play? Zadarius is good, but he freelances. Jaire is solid. Clark disappears, but it's hard to dominate when you're double teamed.

I saw Preston Smith splitting out covering a WR a few times vs. MIN. Why would you think that's a good idea - wouldn't you put a safety on them instead?

[ZachMN]

It's personnel.....Slaleh suddenly isn't looking like such a genius anymore either......Packers cannot draft d linemen to save their lives....I'll make it simple....aggregate the top D linemen from the SEC and when your pick is up see who is there from said list and take them...when your line is kick ass the other levels of D improve by default.......I remember Ray Lewis having 'down' years when the line play wasn't so dominating.....same thing all over....our personnel SUCKS....milquetoast.....

[wist43]

Mediocre defense is in the organization's DNA.

I've said for a long time now, they need to do a deep dive into their evaluation process, and the people they have within the organization providing evaluations and making decisions.

They care nothing about the ILB position... it's amazing how inept they are.

[Bretsky]

Mediocre defense is in the organization's DNA.

I've said for a long time now, they need to do a deep dive into their evaluation process, and the people they have within the organization providing evaluations and making decisions.

They care nothing about the ILB position... it's amazing how inept they are.


VISIT WIST'S WEBSITE SOON


www.BRINGBACKDOMCAPERS.COM

[run pMc]

For those in favor of firing Pettine, this captures it nicely.
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2020/11/3/21546051/the-people-v-mike-pettine-packers-defense

I'm warming up to the idea of getting a new DC, but I think a midseason switch would be tricky.

[texaspackerbacker]

They could make Jerry Gray or whoever the interim guy without much disruption if they think Pettine is getting sloppy or letting the team get too undisciplined. Sometimes it seems like that. I don't really think the scheme is the problem.

[SudsMcBucky]

If the D shits the bed tonight, upon landing, they should immediately drive Pettine from the airport to the box on his desk.

[Joemailman]

Bump. Natives are getting restless.

[Zool]

Take Amos with him and I’m on board.

[Joemailman]

In this NFL no defense has the upper hand over the opposing offense week after week. But it just seems the Packers defense never really has the upper hand. Time to move on.

[GB-Brandon]

In this NFL no defense has the upper hand over the opposing offense week after week. But it just seems the Packers defense never really has the upper hand. Time to move on.

This is true and I have been saying this since the offseason. It’s a “Pitch And Catch League.” Unless the Packers get top ten picks for 3-5 years and hit home runs on those picks and then spend all their $ on the defense they are not going to have this big “Championship Level Defense” that people have in their minds. It’s simply not happening in today’s NFL landscape.

Even with all that stated above you would still need to get rid of Pettine in addition as he is incompetent!! Some of us came to that conclusion at the end of last season.

With Aaron Rodgers and how much $ it costs to have Aaron Rodgers and in “The New NFL” the Packers best path to glory is to have a stacked and high powered offense that can score at will with a defense that can play well with the lead and create some turnovers.

Unfortunately, Brian Gutekunst and Mike Pettine aren’t the correct people for the above equation to work.

[GB-Brandon]

Its always been a giant PIPE DREAM!!

[texaspackerbacker]

Count me in on the fire Pettine train. I've been sitting on the fence about this for a long time, but today was the final straw. We saw how a real D Coordinator adjusted in the second half - against us. That's part of it. Another thing is the apparent chaos and disorganization of the Packer D for most of the game. In addition, our D players had no discipline and little quality fundamentals - not setting the edge, missing tackles, blowing coverages, etc.

The reason I had doubts about getting rid of Pettine was that I generally like his scheme. I wouldn't mind at all replacing him with somebody like Jim Leonhard who has a similar scheme, but presumably is a better coach.

[run pMc]

I know people like exotic schemes and smoke and mirrors, but what if they played a simpler defense with more sound principles? I think Pettine's D has some fun wrinkles, but I wonder if they are playing a lot of young guys (or will have to because of the cap) if it would be easier to play something less exotic. I mean, they are already aiming for a bend-don't break thing now, and they have players like Clark, Smith, etc. who can win a 1-1 matchup.

There are many things about Pettine's D that I think are good, but I also see flaws and feel like they are less than the sum of their parts and only get by on individuals making an occasional play (which is happening less this year). This is not a disciplined, swarming to the ball D. Maybe that's scheme, maybe it's coaching. Blake's comments about being a clean up guy indicate there's a lot of gambling going on and probably not enough communication. Hard to play as one when you can't trust guys to be where they should because they are guessing.

Do you feel confident they will stop a team on 3rd or 4th down? I don't.

[GB-Brandon]

They drafted a bunch of duds and They hired the wrong Guy. Get over it already!!

Total DYSFUNCTION!!!!!

[Bossman641]

It would be one thing if playing small over and over again was benefitting the pass defense but I can't say that it is. We still give up passes over the middle consistently. I'm not expecting the defense to dominate but I do expect them to at least try to play to the offenses weakness. Rivers has a weak arm so you'd think you'd want to make him throw outside the hashes right? Instead, Rivers picks up the majority of his yards to the middle of the field yesterday.

[GB-Brandon]

It would be one thing if playing small over and over again was benefitting the pass defense but I can't say that it is. We still give up passes over the middle consistently. I'm not expecting the defense to dominate but I do expect them to at least try to play to the offenses weakness. Rivers has a weak arm so you'd think you'd want to make him throw outside the hashes right? Instead, Rivers picks up the majority of his yards to the middle of the field yesterday.

Being in a “Dime” and having Preston Smith who looks closer to 280 then 260 matched up on a TE down field is Fucken Stupid!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I know people like exotic schemes and smoke and mirrors, but what if they played a simpler defense with more sound principles? I think Pettine's D has some fun wrinkles, but I wonder if they are playing a lot of young guys (or will have to because of the cap) if it would be easier to play something less exotic. I mean, they are already aiming for a bend-don't break thing now, and they have players like Clark, Smith, etc. who can win a 1-1 matchup.

There are many things about Pettine's D that I think are good, but I also see flaws and feel like they are less than the sum of their parts and only get by on individuals making an occasional play (which is happening less this year). This is not a disciplined, swarming to the ball D. Maybe that's scheme, maybe it's coaching. Blake's comments about being a clean up guy indicate there's a lot of gambling going on and probably not enough communication. Hard to play as one when you can't trust guys to be where they should because they are guessing.

Do you feel confident they will stop a team on 3rd or 4th down? I don't.

Those exotic schemes or whatever are used when the personnel is deficient, and that certainly describes the Packers D - past, present, and probably for a good while in the future. It's been said that Jim Leonhard's D scheme is the same as Pettine's, yet the Badgers do look disciplined and generally do a lot of swarming too. Yes, my guess is that it is coaching. The play making is often accompanied by a bunch of wrong guesses and being out of position. That shouldn't happen unless it is planned and covered by another player - Pettine or somebody needs to make that clear to the Smiths among others.

To answer your question, no, I don't have much confidence they can stop anybody in a critical situation. Part of that is shoddy personnel, some of it might be good players not making smart decisions, and some of it might be defective scheming.

If this season ends up with anything less than as NFC champs, then LaFleur should find a new D Coordinator.

[GB-Brandon]

Those exotic schemes or whatever are used when the personnel is deficient, and that certainly describes the Packers D - past, present, and probably for a good while in the future. It's been said that Jim Leonhard's D scheme is the same as Pettine's, yet the Badgers do look disciplined and generally do a lot of swarming too. Yes, my guess is that it is coaching. The play making is often accompanied by a bunch of wrong guesses and being out of position. That shouldn't happen unless it is planned and covered by another player - Pettine or somebody needs to make that clear to the Smiths among others.

To answer your question, no, I don't have much confidence they can stop anybody in a critical situation. Part of that is shoddy personnel, some of it might be good players not making smart decisions, and some of it might be defective scheming.

If this season ends up with anything less than as NFC champs, then LaFleur should find a new D Coordinator.

Actually it should lead to a complete shake up of the power structure!!! Mark Murphy needs to be relegated to his role and his hands need to be taken out of the cookie jar or shown the door. Brian GuteKunst needs to be immediately Fired and kicked out of the state of Wisconsin !!!! The new power structure needs to have the shareholders making decisions on new power structure. A power structure that creates accountability and brings back excellence to this franchise.

Obviously Mike Pettine should Be Fired.

This lack of accountability is sick and problematic. It is an evil cancerous tumor that has grown malignant!!! There is no cure in just cutting out the tumor at this stage as it is so large. The entire thing must be gutted for us to bring back “Greatness” to Green Bay Packer Football!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

It was also really really fun watching Pettine put Kirksey on Pittman multiple times. LOL!!

How can you be in nickel and dime sets and allow this to happen?

[run pMc]

It was also really really fun watching Pettine put Kirksey on Pittman multiple times. LOL!!

How can you be in nickel and dime sets and allow this to happen?

When you send guys on shallow crossers, you're likely to have ILBs and S's in there. I don't know that they were playing man all the time -- I assume that was Frank Reich scheming receivers into softer spots in zone coverage. Kirksey on Pittman is a mismatch they would obviously try to exploit and is presumably a reason they go with a hybrid safety type to run with these guys. As mentioned, we likely wouldn't complain about coverage in the MOF if the defense was doing its job.

Totally agree on making Rivers throw outside the hashes and squat on short routes and middle of the field stuff. He has feasted on that for a few years now, and i wasn't surprised to see him have success with it yesterday.

Tex, I get you like Leonhard as a DC, but comparing the pros to college defensively is a tough sell -- you can get away with a shitty scheme if you have superior athletes. I do think we both agree the defense has to improve. What I see on the field is a far cry from Week 1 of last year with Rodgers saying "we got a defense now".

[GB-Brandon]

I like Leonhard a lot but I don’t believe he is the answer.

I want to go to a 4-3 with bullies upfront that protect every blade of grass in the run game and fast LB’s that can cover ground and hit. I want big press corners that can play cover 3 and disrupt routes giving the D-Line more time to get home. I want a single high free safety that can cover ground that has great instincts. Overall, I want a defense that attacks the LOS!!!!

This is the blueprint!!! Tired of this Mickey Mouse Bullshit!! People should be past very upset with this SHIT SHOW that has been going on for ten years. These “So Called Geniuses” are nothing more then “Entitled Idiots”

Get them the fuck out of here!! Enough is Enough!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

Leonhard was referred to as "like a coach on the field" when he played in the NFL, and he apparently soaked up a lot of knowledge from Rex Ryan, etc. I think he could handle pro football level coaching just fine.

I've seen enough 4-3 with enough teams to say hell no to that in the modern era.

[GB-Brandon]

Leonhard was referred to as "like a coach on the field" when he played in the NFL, and he apparently soaked up a lot of knowledge from Rex Ryan, etc. I think he could handle pro football level coaching just fine.

I've seen enough 4-3 with enough teams to say hell no to that in the modern era.

I like Leonhard a lot. I know all about him and have actually met him. Not sure he is the answer at this time. However; he couldn’t be any worse then Pettine. The bar is very low right now at many areas with this front office and coaching staff.

[Joemailman]

Bump. Have at it.

[mmmdk]

Just fire him; can't be much worse with whoever.

[George Cumby]

Fuck Mike Pettine.

[King Friday]

Two horrid performances in back to back NFCC games. I believe there are better options available. Pettine was not MLF's guy, so my guess is that he'll be a prime candidate to get canned. To me, the Bucs defense with our players would probably be just as good. It comes down to scheme and tactics. Pettine isn't good enough as a coach.

[RashanGary]

The Falcons old HC, his name escapes me, maybe him to replace Pettine

[Bretsky]

I'd agree, but I think Dan Quinn has already been hired as a DC

I'd take Jim Leonard over this guy but I don't want the Badgers to lose him

But get rid of him

[Joemailman]

The frustrating thing to me is that is that Pettine has a CB who basically eliminates whatever receiver liners up on his side of the field. That should give gthem an advantage elsewhere that they don't seem able to take advantage of.

[GB-Brandon]

The frustrating thing to me is that is that Pettine has a CB who basically eliminates whatever receiver liners up on his side of the field. That should give gthem an advantage elsewhere that they don't seem able to take advantage of.

“INCOMPETENCE”!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

If we had won or even gone to the Super Bowl, I doubt they woulda got rid of Pettine. A small silver lining in this massive shitstorm is that now firing Pettine would seem to be back on the table and, in fact, likely.

I've said all along that I don't like Kevin King, but the fact is, a lot of teams get by with their second Corner as bad or worse than King, and some teams get by ok without even their top Corner being any better. We definitely need another excellent Corner, but no doubt about it, the primary problem is poor coaching and D scheme.

[Joemailman]

Rob Demovsky
@RobDemovsky
·
2h
More on Pettine's status:

He opted not to sign an extension after last season.

Most coordinators/position coaches always have two years on their deals, but Pettine chose to go into the last year of his contract and see how things played out.

This is interesting. Pettine is, or will be a free agent.

[GB-Brandon]

Yeah, Pettine is gone for all practical purposes.

They don’t even have to fire him.

[Sparkey]

So they can't really fire him if he is not under contract. That makes things easy.

Scary thing is that even though he may not be great, there are a lot that are worse. Grass isn't always greener.

[GB-Brandon]

LOL. I can’t believe we went this whole season and nobody realized he was on the last year of his deal!! Unreal!

[easy cheesy]

Forgive me if I'm late to the party... but...Mennenga is gone. Additionally, forgive me for I think I posted this in the wrong thread.

[Joemailman]

So they can't really fire him if he is not under contract. That makes things easy.

Scary thing is that even though he may not be great, there are a lot that are worse. Grass isn't always greener.

He's certainly not the worst DC in the NFL. But if they retain him, it would be hard to be optimistic about significant improvement.

[Joemailman]

Forgive me if I'm late to the party... but...Mennenga is gone...

All is forgiven.:-D

[GB-Brandon]

Do they switch to a 4-3? We have the perfect single high safety. I know of the perfect 4-3 ILB they could draft! Packer fans would love Zaven Collins!!

[GB-Brandon]

Lots of movement with things coming this offseason! For the Good!

[call_me_ishmael]

He's certainly not the worst DC in the NFL. But if they retain him, it would be hard to be optimistic about significant improvement.

I really think his badness was overstated. At some point, players gotta play. But yeah, in general, I don't see how he can come back after the big play in the Bucs game. Prior to that game, I'd say that I felt pretty decent about the defense though.

[th87]

I really think his badness was overstated. At some point, players gotta play. But yeah, in general, I don't see how he can come back after the big play in the Bucs game. Prior to that game, I'd say that I felt pretty decent about the defense though.

Raheem Mostert had like 150 yards before contact, and they had no adjustments or answers. And no one will even remember Mostert in 5 years.

And then this inexplicable coverage. He's not a first time offender.

[call_me_ishmael]

Raheem Mostert had like 150 yards before contact, and they had no adjustments or answers. And no one will even remember Mostert in 5 years.

And then this inexplicable coverage. He's not a first time offender.

Well yeah, that one was egregious. I also think they were just outmanned in that one big time, though.

I don't think he'll be back. I think MILF has the gravitas to bring in his own guy now. His BFF is also one of the better DC in the NFL so I am sure he will ask Bobby Salad what he thinks as far as candidates go. I am hopeful for another young guy. I see Matt Canada was promoted to OC in the NFL. Might we look to another former badger in Dave Aranda or something?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Fuck Mike Pettine.

The last time the Chefs lost a playoff game, former Pack great Andy Reid terminated his entire defensive staff, including former Pack great Al Harris. The Chefs haven’t lost a playoff game since.

Should the Frog (Lafleur is French) terminate his entire D-staff? Bring in moi to run the D. I’ll install the Pistol Force.

[Joemailman]

It will be interesting to see the reaction if Pettine is let go. Will Pettine be seen as a scapegoat? Many Packer defensive stats don't look that terrible:

Some defensive ranks:

Points Allowed - 9th

Yards per play - 17th

Turnovers - 25th

Passing yards allowed - 7th

Passing yards allowed per attempt - 10th

Passer rating allowed - 13th

Sacks - 11th

Rushing yards allowed - 13th

Rushing yards allowed per attempt - 21st

3rd down conversions allowed - 10th

I'm not saying he shouldn't be let go. Considering the high draft picks and free agent signings invested in this defense, I think they've underperformed. But the decision on whether to let Pettine go isn't as cut and dried as it was with Mennenga.

[Fritz]

When you're an angry Packer fan whose favored, at-home team just lost the NFC Championship game and watched Tom Brady throw a TD at the end of the half to a defense that was not playing prevent in the one situation they should've been, it is an easy decision.

[GB-Brandon]

When you're an angry Packer fan whose favored, at-home team just lost the NFC Championship game and watched Tom Brady throw a TD at the end of the half to a defense that was not playing prevent in the one situation they should've been, it is an easy decision.

It really is an “Easy Decision.” If your not gonna set a level of “Accountability” then just Fuck the whole thing!!!

[GB-Brandon]

When the play happened before the second half ended I thought I was watching something after the whistle maybe had gone off in real time and it was a dead play or something. That can just never happen on your watch in a game of that magnitude. Pettine has been a failure for this defense leading up to that moment!! It was like the Packers were gently carrying a bomb into Lambeau Field for the NFC Champ Game with Mike Pettine’s name written on it and that Bomb EXPLODED!!!

It’s several people’s fault for this mayhem!!!

[RashanGary]

It will be interesting to see the reaction if Pettine is let go. Will Pettine be seen as a scapegoat? Many Packer defensive stats don't look that terrible:

Some defensive ranks:

Points Allowed - 9th

Yards per play - 17th

Turnovers - 25th

Passing yards allowed - 7th

Passing yards allowed per attempt - 10th

Passer rating allowed - 13th

Sacks - 11th

Rushing yards allowed - 13th

Rushing yards allowed per attempt - 21st

3rd down conversions allowed - 10th

I'm not saying he shouldn't be let go. Considering the high draft picks and free agent signings invested in this defense, I think they've underperformed. But the decision on whether to let Pettine go isn't as cut and dried as it was with Mennenga.

If the defense drafts a corner high
Develops those two ILBs
and
Deepens the DL depth (even keeping snacks might do this)


I think they have a chance without replacing the coordibator. It's not like Pettine has been bad for Amos, Savage or Alexander. King just sort of never figured it out when everyone else was. Tells me it's a king problem not a pettine problem.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers once had a back handed insult toward king I should have taken notice of. King was in his 3rd year and Alexander his second. Someone said the young corners are starting to figure it out. Rodgers said king wasn’t that young (meaning he should have it figured out.) I shoulda noticed that back handed complinsult right away and realized king just was not getting it.

[texaspackerbacker]

The decision on Pettine comes down to either liking the current scheme or not liking it. LaFleur should have a pretty good grasp on what gives an offense trouble and what doesn't. Myself, I used to like this scheme - 3-4, a lot of man coverage, quite a bit of blitzing, etc. I've been coming around lately, though, to wishing we played more zone. If we hadn't lost, I'm pretty sure Pettine would have been retained - whether any of us like it or not. Even with the loss, I'd say it is 50/50 or better he stays. 13-3 two years in a row says somebody is doing something right. Don't get me wrong, I would still fire him, but I kinda doubt LaFleur et al see it that way.

[th87]

If the defense drafts a corner high
Develops those two ILBs
and
Deepens the DL depth (even keeping snacks might do this)


I think they have a chance without replacing the coordibator. It's not like Pettine has been bad for Amos, Savage or Alexander. King just sort of never figured it out when everyone else was. Tells me it's a king problem not a pettine problem.

There are like 5 first rounders and 4 expensive FAs on this defense, and it still couldn't be better than mediocre on its best day. And then you have no-name running backs setting NFL records and one of the worst pre-halftime defenses I've ever seen.

And how is he even qualified for this job? His claim to fame is knowing Rex Ryan.

[th87]

The decision on Pettine comes down to either liking the current scheme or not liking it. LaFleur should have a pretty good grasp on what gives an offense trouble and what doesn't. Myself, I used to like this scheme - 3-4, a lot of man coverage, quite a bit of blitzing, etc. I've been coming around lately, though, to wishing we played more zone. If we hadn't lost, I'm pretty sure Pettine would have been retained - whether any of us like it or not. Even with the loss, I'd say it is 50/50 or better he stays. 13-3 two years in a row says somebody is doing something right. Don't get me wrong, I would still fire him, but I kinda doubt LaFleur et al see it that way.

13-3 with catastrophic defensive meltdowns in the end.

[Jaire]

King was the weak link. Otherwise they did a good job.

They need a CB2 and another good DT. It's close.

[RashanGary]

King was the weak link. Otherwise they did a good job.

They need a CB2 and another good DT. It's close.

Pretty much. Keke taking a nice third year leap along with the ILBs taking big second year leaps has a shot at getting us close. Definitely need a DT to start developing though.

CB2..... man I hope we luck out with one in the draft. Brandon suggests a free agent corner, which isn’t a horrible idea considering it takes a year or two to develop usually. Maybe cut Preston and sign a corner. I dunno, only one team wins it every year. Every team takes some developmental gambles every year and one team wins more than everyone else at it. No sure things in football. You can sign Bakh to an extension to ensure the OL is stable and he can be injured a week later for a season. Just no guarantees.

I like the concept of free agents being sure fire fixes but I don’t like the practice of it as far as shit can happen anyway.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm almost leaning toward cutting Zadarius instead of Preston, assuming they don't take my advice and go all in for backloading contracts, etc. If sacrifices need to be made, supposedly Z costs $20 million against the cap while P is just $9 million. And as bad as Preston looked most of the season, he picked it up some in late games. Zadarius seems to me to get a lot of mileage going after "low-hanging fruit" - mistakes or flukes by other teams. He tends to disappear against better teams, and he shows disturbing lack of discipline in setting the edge against outside runs and lack of strength against inside runs.

Yes, we do need a quality Corner, way better than King or Sullivan or Jackson, or if not need, it certainly would be nice to have one.

All of this, though, would be improved by getting a new D Coordinator.

[Zool]

King was the weak link. Otherwise they did a good job.

They need a CB2 and another good DT. It's close.

And 2 more ILBs. Ty Summers was "covering" people in the second half of the game. He trailed almost every play that came near him. He should be ST guy at best right now. Kirksey should be the off the bench specialist.
And 2 more DEs. Take Clark off the Dline, and they are the epitome of below average. Keke was playing better, but Lowry? Lancaster? Aren't those 2 guys you try to replace ASAP?

[GB-Brandon]

The never ending “Shopping List” for defensive talent that’s only been going on for 10 plus years now!!

So much fun!!!

[call_me_ishmael]

I tend to agree that Z is a bit overrated. Pettine is gone!

[George Cumby]

I tend to agree that Z is a bit overrated. Pettine is gone!

Off the hip I agree with you. Then I checked his stats, virtually identical to 2019:

Total Tackles: Sacks: TFL: QB Hits:
2019: 55 13.5 17 37
2020: 52 12.5 12 23

I'm guessing Gary's emergence accounts for some of the drop, but Z just felt less disruptive this season.

edit: sorry about the formatting, blame it on Mad.

[GB-Brandon]

Z is not the problem. The problem has been the same problem for quite some time which is having a legitimate piece next to KC. This is what is needed to take the front to the next level creating better matchups for everyone and raising the overall level of the defense. It’s really hard and even harder with things being slanted towards the offenses on rule changes etc. I’m not sure we’ll ever see a Super Elite Defense ever again but who knows.

This is why with the Packers offense and Aaron Rodgers contract the pathway for this team is obvious!

[Bretsky]

How Many 1st round draft picks and high valued UFA's do we have on Defense as opposed to Offense ?

Thank AROD is making everybody around him better now ? :)

[GB-Brandon]

How Many 1st round draft picks and high valued UFA's do we have on Defense as opposed to Offense ?

Thank AROD is making everybody around him better now ? :)

He completed his first pass EVER too a first round draft pick this year(A washed up Tavon Austin) and that should put the whole thing into perspective & context. Yet the yearly “Corner, Corner, Corner, Corner” Chant has already started in the draft thread!!!! It really amazes me!! No prospect in mind just “Corner.”

The whole pattern and way of doing things around here is just so warped. People will go to their grave believing in this backwards way of getting this thing done. Nothing will change their minds!! Nothing!! I believe 100 percent Gute believes this way too. The only chance is Rodgers puts it all on the table when he meets with the Packer Brass next week. Please do it Aaron!!!!!! Shove it right up their ass’s and demand & or!! It’s our only HOPE!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

It’s gonna take some form of “Rebellion” from our great leader Aaron Rodgers to get this thing on track to Get Over The Hump!!

[GB-Brandon]

It’s gonna take a lot!

[Upnorth]

Pretty much. Keke taking a nice third year leap along with the ILBs taking big second year leaps has a shot at getting us close. Definitely need a DT to start developing though.

CB2..... man I hope we luck out with one in the draft. Brandon suggests a free agent corner, which isn’t a horrible idea considering it takes a year or two to develop usually. Maybe cut Preston and sign a corner. I dunno, only one team wins it every year. Every team takes some developmental gambles every year and one team wins more than everyone else at it. No sure things in football. You can sign Bakh to an extension to ensure the OL is stable and he can be injured a week later for a season. Just no guarantees.

I like the concept of free agents being sure fire fixes but I don’t like the practice of it as far as shit can happen anyway.

Regarding free agent CB the only one we might afford is Hilton from the Steelers. And he would def be a big upgrade over king. Or he is a product of the Steelers.
In the draft there are two lineage prospects I like. Surtain and asante Samuel jr. One might drop to us. They pick up hilton and Samuel jr and that would be a huge improvement.
If we want a dt what about Shelby Harris? Or is he out of our price range?

[texaspackerbacker]

Z is not the problem.


Z isn't the problem, but for a $20 million cap hit, he damn well better be the solution, and against good teams, he hasn't often been that.

[ZachMN]

Football is won on the Lines no ifs ands or buts about it. IDC who your linebackers are if the D line is weak they will get neutralized. Running game is all about the O line. Your other D levels improve automatically with a kick ass D line. The problem in GB is the scouting and drafting. They have spent a lot on 1st round picks and cannot seem to look in the mirror and realize they suck at it. Aggregate all the top SEC linemen and get as many as possible and see who sticks.

[run pMc]

Z is not the problem. He was productive and disruptive this year. The problem is, few others were. Preston Smith took a step back, and while Gary improved, it wasn't enough. Outside of Kenny "Mr. December" Clark (who was out hurt several games this season) there wasn't much pass rush on the DL either.
Pressures were down, even if sacks weren't off much. They were far more disruptive last year. That tells me teams figured out some of their tricks.

Is Z making a lot of money, or overpaid? Possibly, but that's what happens when you swim in the FA waters (which 6 win teams do).

Honestly, letting his contract expire and not rehiring him is a nice ending. GB can get a new DC, and Pettine can get a new gig somewhere touting he coached playoff defenses and wasn't fired doing it.