Rank the FA Screwup

[pbmax]

Here is the list:

Evan Silva @evansilva
Notable Free Agents #Packers let walk over last 3 offseasons:

CB Casey Hayward
S Micah Hyde
C J.C. Tretter
TE Jared Cook
EDGE Julius Peppers
G T.J. Lang
S Morgan Burnett

You know, maybe its the pro scouting side that's been failing to hold up its end of the donkey?

[pbmax]

Ranking worst first.

1. Micah Hyde
2. Julius Peppers
3. Casey Hayward
4. Jared Cook
5. TJ Lang
6. JC Tretter
7. Morgan Burnett

[Joemailman]

1. Micah Hyde
2. Casey Hayward
3. Jared Cook
4. Julius Peppers
5. TJ Lang
6. JC Tretter
7. Morgan Burnett

[mraynrand]

Cook
Hayward
Peppers

Others not a problem. And I understand why they let Hyde and Peppers go. So Cook is the only 'screwup' but maybe he wouldn't have returned even with a better offer?

[pbmax]

Cook
Hayward
Peppers

Others not a problem. And I understand why they let Hyde and Peppers go. So Cook is the only 'screwup' but maybe he wouldn't have returned even with a better offer?

I understand each one too. But Hyde is a Pro Bowl (2nd team All Pro) safety and the Packers need them. Though I grant you could list Hayward higher on the basis of four draft picks being used to bolster his former position on defense.

[pbmax]

And its hard to rank them above the others, one of either Tretter or Lang on the team would help a lot too. Though Tretter seemed quite a luxury at his eventual price. You would have to assume he can play Guard and the loss of either Sitton or Lang.

[mraynrand]

And its hard to rank them above the others, one of either Tretter or Lang on the team would help a lot too. Though Tretter seemed quite a luxury at his eventual price. You would have to assume he can play Guard and the loss of either Sitton or Lang.

I do't think Tretter is all that good at guard and TJ Lang has been hurt.

Hyde got a rep for INTs that pass rush generated. I think he's overrated.

[Guiness]

Does Ayokunmi Christopher Oluwaseun Banjo not make the list?:huh:

Was Pepers interested in coming back at all? He gave a 'home is where the heart is' speech when he signed with them, I figured he wanted to go back there for a retirement tour. I have to admit I was surprised when he laced them up again this year.

I would put the order at Hyde, Hayward and Cook.

[Joemailman]

Gutey released Jeff Janis and special teams fell apart. Bring Black Jeff Janis!

[pbmax]

Does Ayokunmi Christopher Oluwaseun Banjo not make the list?:huh:

Was Pepers interested in coming back at all? He gave a 'home is where the heart is' speech when he signed with them, I figured he wanted to go back there for a retirement tour. I have to admit I was surprised when he laced them up again this year.

I would put the order at Hyde, Hayward and Cook.

I believe, but cannot put my finger on where, that Peppers was interested in returning. The home speech was after the Packers indicated no contract was forthcoming.

Banjo perhaps does deserve a spot.

But Guiness, you can make your own full ranking.

[George Cumby]

No Lawrence Guy?

[red]

all scouting might be failing the team

might be time to clean house in that department too

[Freak Out]

Shouldn't the hire of Milt Hendrickson help?

[wist43]

all scouting might be failing the team

might be time to clean house in that department too

I've been calling for a hard look at the scouting dept for years. To me, it's obvious they had been doing a poor job of evaluating talent in the draft - and since the draft was our only means of procuring players, our decline was predictable.

Ted is still there, yes?? Is Highsmith still there??

[mraynrand]

I've been calling for a hard look at the scouting dept for years. To me, it's obvious they had been doing a poor job of evaluating talent in the draft - and since the draft was our only means of procuring players, our decline was predictable.

Ted is still there, yes?? Is Highsmith still there??

Ted's not all there, and Highsmith is in Cleveland. Packers national scout has been around forever, but their director of college scouting is that guy Mansplaining they hired a couple years back from the 49ers. Their regional scouts are all pretty new/young.

[Fosco33]

Packers are probably no different - but sure feels like we got hit with career injuries to very key people - Nic the pick, Finley, Shields, Raji...

[pbmax]

Call me half-tex, but I still look at the roster as pretty good.

In a year they were attempting to tank, they went 6-9-1. Its very easy to be much worse. Without Rodgers they went 7-9. There is not any depth left and they are missing difference makers at key positions because of a combo of poor high draft picks and drafting late.

You have more than adequate pieces at CB, LT, QB, WR1, RB and DL. You are missing key talent at S, WR2, ILB, OLB and possibly RT.

Lack of depth hurts, but the real downer is the lack of starting talent at those spots.

You could have helped shore up OLB and S with those discarded FA pieces.

But I still agree with Barrymore truther wist that there is something weirdly wrong with Packer scouting and acquisition of the middle of their defense and pass rush.

[mraynrand]

^^^ All true. If they had just guessed correctly and kept Hayward and Peppers, they might have been good enough to get to the Owl in 2016. The way the offense was constructed, I don't know if you survive the loss of Rodgers regardless, but maybe last year you win a couple more games while he's out so you have the cushion to make the playoffs even with a tough road loss to Carolina. Getting Hundley wrong/relationship with Rodgers eventually cost Stubbers his job. Getting the QB right is job #1 in today's NFL.

[pbmax]

Shields was probably the piece that was un-overcomable in 2016. They just ran out of CBs.

[pbmax]

The guy I am struggling to understand now is letting Kyle Murphy go. He seems at the very least to be a good hedge for depth.

[mraynrand]

Shields was probably the piece that was un-overcomable in 2016. They just ran out of CBs.

Yeah, I was harping on that the whole year. They based their entire defense on him being a shut down corner. That's pretty shitty luck, but they've had a lot of that lately.

[mraynrand]

The guy I am struggling to understand now is letting Kyle Murphy go. He seems at the very least to be a good hedge for depth.

I don't understand. They kept the guy the entire year on IR and then LA signs him to their practice squad on Jan 3? WTF? That seems like a cheap/conniving move. And also that the Packers got played - unless they just don't really like him.

[Patler]

The guy I am struggling to understand now is letting Kyle Murphy go. He seems at the very least to be a good hedge for depth.

Especially when you consider that, on the rare occasions when he and Spriggs were both healthy, Murphy seemed to be ahead of Spriggs.

[Patler]

I don't understand. They kept the guy the entire year on IR and then LA signs him to their practice squad on Jan 3? WTF? That seems like a cheap/conniving move. And also that the Packers got played - unless they just don't really like him.

GB didn't get played, they released him from IR on Dec. 27. Apparently, they had no interest in keeping him around.

[Carolina_Packer]

As for guys they "gave up on", what about Vince Biegel? I'm not saying he was going to be special, however, TT drafts him with the first pick of the 4th round in 2017 after trading back and getting an extra pick. VB had both feet operated on and wasn't much of an impact later in his rookie season when activated. So then after his first full, healthy training camp, he gets cut? Did draft and develop become draft and dump? Again, I'm not saying he was going to be a special player, but how will they ever know if they pull the plug so quickly? There really wasn't a JAG OLB on the roster that could have been cut instead? That was a quick hook.

[call_me_ishmael]

I mean, if they can't play, they can't play. No need to keep 'em around. That said, our LBs are hot garbage so he must have been truly awful to get the boot like that :-D

[mraynrand]

GB didn't get played, they released him from IR on Dec. 27. Apparently, they had no interest in keeping him around.

That's weird. The website I saw had the signing listed but not the release. Oh well.

Anyway, one complaint that I had this year (I think it was the preseason, maybe last year already??) was that Murphy looked too light and was really getting pushed around. Didn't matter that his footwork was passable, he had zero anchor.

[Pugger]

Shields was probably the piece that was un-overcomable in 2016. They just ran out of CBs.

I still can't believe he is playing again. So far he's been lucky.

[mraynrand]

I still can't believe he is playing again. So far he's been lucky.

at gunner/receiver no less. Hope he stays lucky.

[texaspackerbacker]

As for that 7 listed above, rather than ranking, I'd like to know who opposed letting them go/wanted to pay what it would have taken at the time to re-sign them. Myself, I was reasonably satisfied that they would have cost more than they would help the team. Just like signing free agents from outside, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Luck has more than a little bit to do with it.

[Fritz]

The guy I am struggling to understand now is letting Kyle Murphy go. He seems at the very least to be a good hedge for depth.

I still don't understand why Bart Starr didn't do more to try to sign Ted "The Mad Stork" Hendricks to a long-term deal.

[gbgary]

1. Micah Hyde
2. Julius Peppers
3. Casey Hayward
4. TJ Land
5. JC Tretter
6. Jared Cook
7. Morgan Burnett

[gbgary]

I still don't understand why Bart Starr didn't do more to try to sign Ted "The Mad Stork" Hendricks to a long-term deal.

i thought he hated it there. no?

[Fritz]

i thought he hated it there. no?

He did. He absolutely did. But this is Packerrats, and those kinds of considerations are irrelevant. If Bart didn't sign him, it means Bart didn't care enough, or wanted to win on the cheap.

Fire Bart Starr now!

Hire someone with a winning track record.

Hell, there's a former Packer great sitting out there who's coached a team to the Super Bowl. Maybe what this organization needs is a tough old offensive lineman with a track record of success as a coach to return this organization to glory.

Hire Forrest Gregg now!

[theeaterofshades]

1) CB Casey Hayward
2) S Micah Hyde
3) TE Jared Cook
4) S Morgan Burnett

[mraynrand]

Hire Forrest Gregg now!

No Way! You should go with the offensive innovator! InFante we trust!!

[Pugger]

1. Micah Hyde
2. Julius Peppers
3. Casey Hayward
4. TJ Land
5. JC Tretter
6. Jared Cook
7. Morgan Burnett

At the time we all bemoaned TJ Lang going to Detroit but in 20/20 hindsight it was the right move. During the 2 seasons since he left GB he has started only 22 games. He is on IR right now and he is pondering whether to return to the Lions next season. His body is breaking down.

[Fosco33]

At the time we all bemoaned TJ Lang going to Detroit but in 20/20 hindsight it was the right move. During the 2 seasons since he left GB he has started only 22 games. He is on IR right now and he is pondering whether to return to the Lions next season. His body is breaking down.

Yup. There’s a balance - it should always be about max value (ROI).

Who else is on the list of ‘glad we let them walk’

[ThunderDan]

Yup. There’s a balance - it should always be about max value (ROI).

Who else is on the list of ‘glad we let them walk’

Jeff Janis?

[Fosco33]

A few older ones... Cullen Jenkins, my avatar (I was ok with that), Jordy (ok w/ that too).

Or bringing back House and Tramon Williams?

[Smidgeon]

Jeff Janis?

For an end to the drama, sure. For the value he added to Special Teams? That one is missed.

[run pMc]

You know, maybe its the pro scouting side that's been failing to hold up its end of the donkey?

Considering that TT was relatively inactive in the FA market, maybe the pro scouting side was half-heartedly doing the job, knowing it was futile.


Cook is the only one I consider a real screwup, he would've helped them avoid the Bennett/Graham messes, and at 31 looked like OAK's best receiver this season. At the time I thought Bennett was an upgrade...clearly I was wrong.

I know nobody who thought Hyde was worth 6M a year, although GB sure could use a safety (or 3) now. Hayward had been hurt a lot and seemed to have lost a little burst when they let him walk in favor of Randall/Rollins. The SD pass rush helps him...he still gets toasted at times.
The rest are meh -- Peppers is old, Tretter wasn't gonna beat Linsley (and they weren't paying big bucks to a bench OL who got hurt a lot), and Lang/Burnett were breaking down.

So...of your 7, I'd go
Cook
Hyde
Hayward
Peppers
Tretter
Lang
Burnett

[pbmax]

At the time we all bemoaned TJ Lang going to Detroit but in 20/20 hindsight it was the right move. During the 2 seasons since he left GB he has started only 22 games. He is on IR right now and he is pondering whether to return to the Lions next season. His body is breaking down.

Yeah, its true for him and Sitton, but glad both got paid one last time.

Tretter is the guy who arguably could have been kept. A poor man's Mike Flanagan.

[pbmax]

A few older ones... Cullen Jenkins, my avatar (I was ok with that), Jordy (ok w/ that too).

Or bringing back House and Tramon Williams?

House had one more decent year and then fell off a cliff. Williams seems to be on the Roger Clemens career path.

[Pugger]

Yeah, its true for him and Sitton, but glad both got paid one last time.

Tretter is the guy who arguably could have been kept. A poor man's Mike Flanagan.

Could Tretter have played guard for us instead? I think we are basically happy with Linsley at center.

[run pMc]

Could Tretter have played guard for us instead? I think we are basically happy with Linsley at center.

Keeping Linsley at C over Tretter was the right call. He hasn't missed a snap in something like 2 seasons.
Tretter probably wasn't strong/big enough to hold up at guard...he's 6'4"/307. Having him as a backup tackle/utility OL was nice, but he was going to get starter's money from another team and they had to pick between him Linsley. Lane Taylor and Jahri Evans played G capably with McCray overachieving at times.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm going to play the contrarian and say I don't really think any of them outside of Hayward and maybe Hyde was a mistake.

[texaspackerbacker]

None of these escapees seemed like they were worth the big money to keep them at the time. Sure, some of them have gone on to justify the money they got - shit happens. Who among us, though, can honestly say they opposed letting most or all of them walk at the time the decision needed to be made?

[Fosco33]

Someone find/bump the ‘packers on other teams’ thread.

I liked Hayward. Mostly bc a friend went was close to him in college.
S
Hyde got 5y/30m contract - looking back - hard to say he’d be worth that.

Look at Morgan Burnett. We let him walk and he just asked for his release last week from PIT.

Our challenge on D is there are what - 5 guys making more than 2.5m/yr? Hard to attract talent with that as recent history.

[Patler]

Here is the list:

CB Casey Hayward
S Micah Hyde
C J.C. Tretter
TE Jared Cook
EDGE Julius Peppers
G T.J. Lang
S Morgan Burnett

Most I consider no mistake at all, and therefore will not be "ranked" These include, with my comments:

CB Casey Hayward - No one thought this was a mistake at the time. Some owned up to it, like McGinn:

McGinn:
"My conclusion is the same now as it was nine months ago. Thompson made the right call not to re-sign Hayward."
https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2016/12/03/mcginn-parting-ways-hayward-right-move/94811276/
Others second guessed it with the excuse that Thompson/McCarthy should have known better For example:

Dougherty:
"It’s safe to say if the two still were with the Packers, Hayward would be their best cornerback and Hyde their top safety. So how did Thompson and McCarthy blow the call so badly not just once, but twice?
...
"So full disclosure: When the Packers let Hayward leave in free agency in 2016, I considered it the right move. They already had a true No. 1 (Sam Shields) and the promising cornerbacks Thompson had drafted with his first two picks in 2015: Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins."
https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/12/27/dougherty-how-did-packers-let-casey-hayward-micah-hyde-get-away/981940001/

C J.C. Tretter - mistake only if they intended to let Linsley go. Word from writers and people on here was that neither Tretter nor Linsley was a long term option at guard. You can't pay two centers at a starters level on a second contract. One of them had to go.

EDGE Julius Peppers - My recollection is different than some others, above. My recollection is that the Packers were interested in having him back, but Peppers made it clear his preference was to return home to the Panthers, and that he would negotiate with GB if that didn't work out. FA started at 4:00 pm on March 9 and the morning of March 10 it was announced that he was going back to Carolina on a very cheap one-year contract. I believe he made no FA visits. Makes sense, he was born and raised in N.C., played college ball in N.C. and started his pro career there. I don't think resigning him was an option

G T.J. Lang - No mistake at all. Has played just 19 games the last two seasons, and was game time decision for many of those. He was breaking down from head to foot, and the Packers knew it.


The "mistakes," if any, in my opinion fall in this order from biggest mistake to smallest:

S Micah Hyde - I was concerned about this at the time, just because of his versatility. Over the course of a season, with injuries and different defensive alignments, a team needs at least four guys who can play outside, at least four who can play safety and at least 3 who can fill the different variations teams like to use. Lots of guys have the physical ability to be not awful at numerous positions, but fewer seem to have the brains to pull it off. Hyde had shown the ability and the brains. Then there was always the talk of his potential as a real safety, but he never really got the chance in GB. In short, there were a lot of reasons to try and find a way to keep him.

TE Jared Cook - Bennett playing as he had for most of his career should have been an overall upgrade, but his personality seemed like an odd fit for Green Bay, especially over a period of years. Cook had seemed to develop a "relationship" with Rodgers, even with having missed a good portion of the season. Cook seemed like a more certain commodity for more years than Bennett.

S Morgan Burnett - I would almost classify this as not a mistake at all, but with the questions already surrounding HHCD last off season, the failure of Jones to make a decent impression at all in 2017 and the rawness of the remainder of the roster at safety, I am willing to consider this as a minor mistake. However, with not having played a full season since 2012, and missing an average of about 3 games per years since then, a deal with a cost efficient "out" somewhat like the Steelers gave him, but maybe at a bit of a home team discount would have been in order.

[bobblehead]

I do't think Tretter is all that good at guard and TJ Lang has been hurt.

Hyde got a rep for INTs that pass rush generated. I think he's overrated.

Like the quick hitter he took to the house against Dallas?

Unquestionably:

Hyde
Hayward
Tretter
Cook

All 4 were proven productive and all 4 created big holes through their departure. Tretter absolutely can play guard. He played LT and didn't shit all over himself. Peppers was 57 years old so it was time to move on. Lang was showing the wear and tear. Burnett flat out sucks.

[bobblehead]

None of these escapees seemed like they were worth the big money to keep them at the time. Sure, some of them have gone on to justify the money they got - shit happens. Who among us, though, can honestly say they opposed letting most or all of them walk at the time the decision needed to be made?

I absolutely opposed letting Hyde walk. I very much opposed Hayward and Tretter. I thought we upgraded from cook to bennett, but that was asupc (assuming stubby used player correctly). Also, bennett is a punk so good riddance.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Like the quick hitter he took to the house against Dallas?

.

Don’t confuse D-Rand with that abomination, Mr Hyde. That abomination has never produced a pick 6 against Tex’s 2nd favorite team, the Cowgirls.

Hyde was such an abomination at corner, nobody in the NFL wants to play a Caucasiod at corner again. Glad Todd told Mr. Hyde to fuck off.

[Patler]

Tretter absolutely can play guard. He played LT and didn't shit all over himself.

I don't think your second sentence necessarily supports your first.

[pbmax]

Its hard to hold Tretter against the personnel guys because he hasn't gone elsewhere, moved positions and been successful. If you are the Packers, it would be a significant second contract for a player who has been injured with an eye on him playing a position he hasn't proven himself at. I think he could have adjusted, but can't know for certain.

In light of today's Packers, his loss left a gap he might have filled.

Hayward is the reverse, he went elsewhere, played a little more zone and was a very effective starter at outside CB. Packers projected him inside at slot. This may have been a scheme problem, as Hayward might not have ever played lights out wide man coverage like Capers and Pettine like to use. This scheme issue was the biggest obstacle with the Packers D, the scheme could never be coherent and adapt to other skills. The scheme drove the personnel. So finds like Hyde and Hayward were always awkward fits.

Hyde to me just seems to be a bad decision. He may not be an All-Pro, HoF arc safety. But he is more than competent. I think they could have solidified one of two positions had they kept him and dumped Burnett. Maybe you can only afford one of Hyde or Hayward, and Hyde would be nice to have now.

Cook was a loss but no one understood how big of one. He wasn't going to block like McCarthy wanted, but what a target. Not sure if LaFleur and Hackett will want a pass catching TE.

Peppers was more pass rush than they had waiting in the wings.

[texaspackerbacker]

I absolutely opposed letting Hyde walk. I very much opposed Hayward and Tretter. I thought we upgraded from cook to bennett, but that was asupc (assuming stubby used player correctly). Also, bennett is a punk so good riddance.

I also had a high opinion of Hyde, but they said he wasn't fast enough to be good in the NFL. That's one reason I'm hopeful for Josh Jackson now - a knack in college at least for making a play, same as Hyde. Still, if he wanted too much money, I can see how they could let him go. Hayward was similar - always making plays and you wonder how he did it, plus he was hurt a lot. Those were mistakes in hindsight, but understandable ones. I thought from the start, Tretter wasn't as good as Linsley even though he was drafted higher. Not paying him seemed wise at the time. I agree 100% about Bennett, and I didn't expect Cook to leave and do as good as he has done. He also did not seem worth the money at the time that it woulda taken to sign him.

[pbmax]

Mack Brown @CoachMackBrown
“Tell me what the guy can do, don’t tell me what he can’t do, and we’ll find a way to put that positive skill set in the defense and not ask him to be in a position where he can fail.” Bill Belichick

[Rutnstrut]

Packers are probably no different - but sure feels like we got hit with career injuries to very key people - Nic the pick, Finley, Shields, Raji...




Raji wasn't a career injury. He just didn't really like/love playing football and had made enough money.

[bobblehead]

I don't think your second sentence necessarily supports your first.

Not necessarily, but it does when taken with all the facts. He had the strength to play C and the size and athleticism to play LT, so I am very confident he could play guard sort of in the mold of Mike Wahle.

[bobblehead]

Don’t confuse D-Rand with that abomination, Mr Hyde. That abomination has never produced a pick 6 against Tex’s 2nd favorite team, the Cowgirls.

Hyde was such an abomination at corner, nobody in the NFL wants to play a Caucasiod at corner again. Glad Todd told Mr. Hyde to fuck off.

My bad, was thinking of this play which was a huge pick...although it wasn't a pick 6

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/1/15/14280778/2017-nfl-playoffs-packers-cowboys-micah-hyde-interception-dak-prescott

[Patler]

Not necessarily, but it does when taken with all the facts. He had the strength to play C and the size and athleticism to play LT, so I am very confident he could play guard sort of in the mold of Mike Wahle.

It has been my understanding that strength has been an issue for Tretter. His success is based on quickness and smarts, with marginal strength. If they wanted to keep both, I always wondered if Linsley, who is renowned for his upper body strength, would have been the better option at guard; although neither would have had ideal size.

Frustrating thing with Tretter: he was constantly injured in GB, missing 33 of 64 games due to injury during his four seasons in GB. In two years at Cleveland, he hasn't missed a single game. I wonder how much his injury history influenced the Packers.

[bobblehead]

It has been my understanding that strength has been an issue for Tretter. His success is based on quickness and smarts, with marginal strength. If they wanted to keep both, I always wondered if Linsley, who is renowned for his upper body strength, would have been the better option at guard; although neither would have had ideal size.

Frustrating thing with Tretter: he was constantly injured in GB, missing 33 of 64 games due to injury during his four seasons in GB. In two years at Cleveland, he hasn't missed a single game. I wonder how much his injury history influenced the Packers.

Funny you say that as I have long blamed MM's practice habits for the injury bug(s). Rams were relatively healthy and M4 was a McVay guy so hopefully we gain something there. It may be a stretch, but simply not being MM might help.

Tretter was the bigger guy, so strength was probably equal when factoring in size. You are also taking original impressions, and I would bet after a few years in an NFL weight room the difference was negligible. I believe either could have played G, but since Linsley won the C competition fair and square it would have been up to Tretter to switch positions...plus Linsley was a C all thru college while Tretter was a converted TE to T. He would have been our best G last year if he had been retained.

And while I understand availability being an issue, you can't just cut everyone with talent who gets hurt. Injuries are fluky, as well as something having to do with training, and sometimes a guy is just unlucky on that front as Tretter and Hayward have proven.

[pbmax]

I think people discounting either at Guard are simply rotating qualifications for the position in order to say no to each.

Linsley is too unathletic and slow. Tretter is too weak and finesse based.

If both can play center effectively against pro competition, each would be able to at least get by at Guard. Their ultimate performance level would be dictated as much by reps, practice, scheme and technique as well as their innate abilities.

Linsley was a wrestler and that always seems to benefit interior lineman on each side of the ball. Tretter having tackle like agility would align him with Wahle and Colledge.

[run pMc]

Most OT's are 6'-5+ these days. Bahktiari was seen as undersized and needing strength at 6-4 301 as a rookie. Good footwork and high motor got him through (plus being next to Sitton).
Traditionally, C is where (in the words of Dr. Z) you hide the "weak sister" of your OL. Generally they are shortest, least athletic, and not your bench press winner...they get help from the G's on combo blocks etc. and were one of several reasons for A gap pressures, and either plugging in monster DT's who bull rush/collapse or explosive DTs who penetrate. C's have gotten bigger/more athletic/stronger as a result, but many teams still have 6'4" 330lb. road graders at G. Tretter was no road-grader.

As others have mentioned, he was hurt a lot as well. Availability is an ability. IIRC he's been healthy since his last year as a Packer, but the roster as it was made him expendable. Also, few teams can afford to pay their 6th OL $5-6M a year, that would have meant you paid Tretter like a starter while he sat on the bench watching Linsley play on a rookie contract. That would raise eyebrows inside and outside the locker room. You have enough expensive contracts for backups and you can't sign starters/emerging stars like Davante when their contracts end.

[bobblehead]

Most OT's are 6'-5+ these days. Bahktiari was seen as undersized and needing strength at 6-4 301 as a rookie. Good footwork and high motor got him through (plus being next to Sitton).
Traditionally, C is where (in the words of Dr. Z) you hide the "weak sister" of your OL. Generally they are shortest, least athletic, and not your bench press winner...they get help from the G's on combo blocks etc. and were one of several reasons for A gap pressures, and either plugging in monster DT's who bull rush/collapse or explosive DTs who penetrate. C's have gotten bigger/more athletic/stronger as a result, but many teams still have 6'4" 330lb. road graders at G. Tretter was no road-grader.

As others have mentioned, he was hurt a lot as well. Availability is an ability. IIRC he's been healthy since his last year as a Packer, but the roster as it was made him expendable. Also, few teams can afford to pay their 6th OL $5-6M a year, that would have meant you paid Tretter like a starter while he sat on the bench watching Linsley play on a rookie contract. That would raise eyebrows inside and outside the locker room. You have enough expensive contracts for backups and you can't sign starters/emerging stars like Davante when their contracts end.

You don't understand OL. You don't need to be 330lbs to be a road grader. You need weight and size to pass block. That is why the C are smaller (not weak sisters, just physically smaller). As Fat mike would say, its all about pad level.

[texaspackerbacker]

You don't understand OL. You don't need to be 330lbs to be a road grader. You need weight and size to pass block. That is why the C are smaller (not weak sisters, just physically smaller). As Fat mike would say, its all about pad level.

If you're saying what I think you're saying, you kinda got it backwards. The 330 pound road graders are what you need if you want a run first situation (think Badgers), and they generally do all right in pass blocking too. Your smaller mobile types are helpful for countering speedy edge rushers. Back in the day, OTs were generally bigger than Guards; Now it is the opposite for that reason. Whether you can get by with a smaller Center depends on the quality of your Guards and more so, on the size of the splits in the O Line. McVay's Rams seemed to have a tight O Line - smaller splits. I wonder if we will see that with LaFleur's Packers.

[bobblehead]

If you're saying what I think you're saying, you kinda got it backwards. The 330 pound road graders are what you need if you want a run first situation (think Badgers), and they generally do all right in pass blocking too. Your smaller mobile types are helpful for countering speedy edge rushers. Back in the day, OTs were generally bigger than Guards; Now it is the opposite for that reason. Whether you can get by with a smaller Center depends on the quality of your Guards and more so, on the size of the splits in the O Line. McVay's Rams seemed to have a tight O Line - smaller splits. I wonder if we will see that with LaFleur's Packers.

I have it right. You also do not understand OL play.

[run pMc]

I have it right. You also do not understand OL play.

LOL OK