Spriggs - even worse than we thought?

[Patler]

It was obvious that he played poorly, but project this over a full season of snaps:


"There are times when it finally clicks for an offensive lineman and he goes from poor to starter in one year. But after three seasons, Spriggs has statistically been a mess. He played 291 snaps last year, allowed 3½ sacks and four pressures and committed seven penalties for 50 yards."

From Silverstein's article:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/02/25/silverstein-who-should-stay-who-should-go-packers-roster/2956335002/http://

Basically, the guy screwed up once every 20 plays.

[red]

Yeah, we need a new tackle

And a new backup

[Patler]

I wonder how Bulaga would hold up in a reserve role. Find a new starter to absorb the bulk of the snaps, and have Bulaga as a backup, maybe even for both tackles and guards. Maybe he couldn't play LT anymore, but I suspect he would be an upgrade over our backup guards from last season. Not ideal, but upgrades have to come in stages, and as a backup, hopefully, Bulaga wouldn't have to play often.

[Deputy Nutz]

That's what happens when you use analytics to draft offensive tackles

[Joemailman]

Because Spriggs has failed, it's time to draft Bulaga's replacement, who is entering the last year of his contract. McCray, who kind of bombed at RG in 2018, was actually decent at RT in 2017. I hadn't really thought of cutting Spriggs this year, but with his salary going up, it might not be a bad idea. I'd rather see a draft pick or McCray in there when Bulaga can't play.

[pbmax]

Still rooting for him. But he is not the specimen Sherrod was.

They would have to hit on ALL their offseason moves before they send SPRIGGS™ packing though. Unless he falls apart and learns nothing from the reps last year.

[bobblehead]

Still rooting for him. But he is not the specimen Sherrod was.

They would have to hit on ALL their offseason moves before they send SPRIGGS™ packing though. Unless he falls apart and learns nothing from the reps last year.

He is actually the polar opposite of Sherrod. Sherrod was a mammoth. He had a ton going for him and was adjusting to the speed of the NFL and would have been good. After the injury he struggled with his footwork and everything else fell apart with it.

Spriggs actually had pretty good technique overall coming in, but needed size. In gaining size he lost athleticism. The reason I am holding out a sliver of hope, and no one has been harder on him than I have, is simply that guys take a year to learn how to move at a new weight.

They absolutely should not cut spriggs until he plays out the preseason and proves he can't play at 315 or whatever he is now.

[Fritz]

He is actually the polar opposite of Sherrod. Sherrod was a mammoth. He had a ton going for him and was adjusting to the speed of the NFL and would have been good. After the injury he struggled with his footwork and everything else fell apart with it.

Spriggs actually had pretty good technique overall coming in, but needed size. In gaining size he lost athleticism. The reason I am holding out a sliver of hope, and no one has been harder on him than I have, is simply that guys take a year to learn how to move at a new weight.

They absolutely should not cut spriggs until he plays out the preseason and proves he can't play at 315 or whatever he is now.


Absolutely agree here. You lose nothing by bringing in to camp to see if he has come around.

Or maybe you lose some tiny signing bonus, but that's all.

[Joemailman]

Absolutely agree here. You lose nothing by bringing in to camp to see if he has come around.

Or maybe you lose some tiny signing bonus, but that's all.There's nothing to be lost by bringing him to camp. There's no roster bonus to be paid out like there is with Graham.

[Patler]

You do run the risk of a season ending injury in training camp obligating the team to pay whatever his contract requires, which could be as much as his 2019 full season salary. The Packers have been caught in this a couple times.

If there is still hope for him, sure, bring him in. If they have given up hope for him, find someone else to be a camp body.

[cheesner]

Wanted to compare Spriggs to Bahkiari just to get an idea of comparison. I found this article at PFF that says Bahk played 2900 pass blocking snaps and gave up 133 pressures. This puts Bahk at 1 in 22 plays, however it doesnt count holding penalties. Bahk doesnt get many of those, but he has some. Later it says he allows a pressure 3.8% of snaps, which doesnt seem to add up. But this isnt bad if Spriggs is 5%. Also, Bahk has the blind side and usually goes against the best pass rusher.

Am I missing something? I actually thought Spriggs looked decent in some of his outings this season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-packers-ot-david-bakhtiari-selected-no-33-on-the-pff-50

[pbmax]

Wanted to compare Spriggs to Bahkiari just to get an idea of comparison. I found this article at PFF that says Bahk played 2900 pass blocking snaps and gave up 133 pressures. This puts Bahk at 1 in 22 plays, however it doesnt count holding penalties. Bahk doesnt get many of those, but he has some. Later it says he allows a pressure 3.8% of snaps, which doesnt seem to add up. But this isnt bad if Spriggs is 5%. Also, Bahk has the blind side and usually goes against the best pass rusher.

Am I missing something? I actually thought Spriggs looked decent in some of his outings this season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-packers-ot-david-bakhtiari-selected-no-33-on-the-pff-50

Are we sure about 2000 pass snaps? I went to Pro Football Reference and thought I saw Rodgers with a total of 1000 snaps on offense.

He looked OK at times. But he also looked lost at times. He did not have one thing he could count on. He tends not to get beat on speed, but it did happen. If he gets too concerned about the edge, he can be had with a counter move inside. He anchors better than he did, but not quite good enough. He has mobility and unlike Newhouse, he doesn't give up early. He will chase even if beat.

Its just not enough improvement for the time that has elapsed. I also suspect he needs better advice about how to add some weight and not lose his edge athletically. The best thing that happened to him last year were reps. He did it, he now has film and it should be clear in his head what needs to improve.

You know the one thing that did improve? His run blocking. He is not a road grader but you get him moving and he can pick someone up and cover them. If he can start, he would eventually be a monster on screens and boots.

Its very hard to judge O line play because you don't know the calls. They had big problems on protection calls last year and Spriggs and the right side seemed to be involved in a lot of them. However, it also happened to the left side and Bulaga when he was in there. Hard to say if he wasn't identifying correctly or if the calls were bad given the front. So many free rushers either off the edge or stunting to the middle. I can't count how many times 3 Packers were blocking 2 pass rushers with a free rusher coming through.

[Patler]

Wanted to compare Spriggs to Bahkiari just to get an idea of comparison. I found this article at PFF that says Bahk played 2900 pass blocking snaps and gave up 133 pressures. This puts Bahk at 1 in 22 plays, however it doesnt count holding penalties. Bahk doesnt get many of those, but he has some. Later it says he allows a pressure 3.8% of snaps, which doesnt seem to add up. But this isnt bad if Spriggs is 5%. Also, Bahk has the blind side and usually goes against the best pass rusher.

Am I missing something? I actually thought Spriggs looked decent in some of his outings this season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-packers-ot-david-bakhtiari-selected-no-33-on-the-pff-50

I'm not sure we can look at the two articles and be comparing apples to apples.

First, the PFF article reports Bakhtiari's pressures/pass blocking snap. The JSO article seems to report Spriggs' pass protection and penalties based on total snaps; so there is that difference. Some total snap counts include ST snaps. I don't know if Spriggs' count includes any ST snaps.

Second, I don't think the two articles use "pressures" in the same way. I believe PFF uses "pressures" to mean the total of sacks, hurries and knockdowns. It's not at all clear how the JSO article uses the term since it reports Spriggs as having 3.5 sacks and 4 pressures. If it means the same as PFF it would mean Spriggs had only 1/2 hurry and knockdown combined.

Finally, unless both players stats come from the same source, the numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt. Attributing responsibilities in pass protection failure is difficult and subjective. Even deciding if a play included a hurry or not is subjective, let alone who was responsible for it. It's not clear where JSO got their stats.

Long and short - projecting Spriggs' stats to starting and playing for a full season would yield 10-12 sacks and 20+ penalties. That would be a player you would want to upgrade.

[Patler]

Are we sure about 2000 pass snaps? I went to Pro Football Reference and thought I saw Rodgers with a total of 1000 snaps on offense.

It's 2900, not 2000 pass snaps. That's what they report for Bakhtiari in his career, not last season.

[Fritz]

I'm not sure we can look at the two articles and be comparing apples to apples.

First, the PFF article reports Bakhtiari's pressures/pass blocking snap. The JSO article seems to report Spriggs' pass protection and penalties based on total snaps; so there is that difference. Some total snap counts include ST snaps. I don't know if Spriggs' count includes any ST snaps.

Second, I don't think the two articles use "pressures" in the same way. I believe PFF uses "pressures" to mean the total of sacks, hurries and knockdowns. It's not at all clear how the JSO article uses the term since it reports Spriggs as having 3.5 sacks and 4 pressures. If it means the same as PFF it would mean Spriggs had only 1/2 hurry and knockdown combined.

Finally, unless both players stats come from the same source, the numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt. Attributing responsibilities in pass protection failure is difficult and subjective. Even deciding if a play included a hurry or not is subjective, let alone who was responsible for it. It's not clear where JSO got their stats.

Long and short - projecting Spriggs' stats to starting and playing for a full season would yield 10-12 sacks and 20+ penalties. That would be a player you would want to upgrade.

Very easily fixable. Just change his position on the official team roster to OLB, and he's a very positive addition to the team!

[Patler]

Very easily fixable. Just change his position on the official team roster to OLB, and he's a very positive addition to the team!

"Fackrell II"

[run pMc]

Spriggs is a player the team should look to upgrade from. Unless there was a financial reason not to, I'd bring him to camp to let him compete. They need to improve the level of competition though.

[Bretsky]

TRADE SPRIGGS FOR ROELL PRESTON

[bobblehead]

Wanted to compare Spriggs to Bahkiari just to get an idea of comparison. I found this article at PFF that says Bahk played 2900 pass blocking snaps and gave up 133 pressures. This puts Bahk at 1 in 22 plays, however it doesnt count holding penalties. Bahk doesnt get many of those, but he has some. Later it says he allows a pressure 3.8% of snaps, which doesnt seem to add up. But this isnt bad if Spriggs is 5%. Also, Bahk has the blind side and usually goes against the best pass rusher.

Am I missing something? I actually thought Spriggs looked decent in some of his outings this season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-packers-ot-david-bakhtiari-selected-no-33-on-the-pff-50

The blind side does not usually go against the best pass rusher. Its just important because its the blind side. Sometimes its the best, often times teams scheme so the best is NOT going against the LT.

[Fritz]

"Fackrell II"

Let me just say that for all the times Aaron Jones has handled the football, he's never thrown an interception. Helluva QB.

[Patler]

The blind side does not usually go against the best pass rusher. Its just important because its the blind side. Sometimes its the best, often times teams scheme so the best is NOT going against the LT.

...which should make us all appreciate what the Packers had in the combination of Clifton and Tauscher all the more. I remember an article early in their careers that quoted an opposing scout as saying something to the effect that having two young tackles like them meant all the Packers really needed was a couple fat guys to put between them.