Draft 2019 : The Reasoning BEHIND Your Preferences

[The Shadow]

In the official 2019 Draft thread, I have read many Rat's choices for the Packer's draft. But, overall, they seemed like just names - without much reasoning behind the choices. So, I thought is might be nice to outline the reasons that these choices are being put forth - at least for the first 2 rounds..
Here's mine :

Round #1 (12): Devin White, LB. Free agency has added some oomph to the pass rush. We have a pretty solid D line & we have added lots of young talent to the secondary. What I think we most need now is speed & instincts at the inside LB position (and no, I don't think Burks is the answer). So : adding White to the defense adds a lot to the middle of the defense.
If White is gone : I would trade back a bit & choose Devin Bush (and pick up a bit more draft capital).

[B]Round #1 (30) : Marquise Brown, WR.. We have Graham, and Tonyan has promise. Much more impact for the offense would be a ultra-fast jitterbug for the slot - a wonderful new toy for Rodgers & LeFleur to utilize. Living down here in Bear's country, I watched how Nagy used Tarik Cohen & his speed to confuse defenses. It didn't even really matter how MUCH he was used; just his presence alone caused defensive confusion : teams were scared he was going to torch them. Brown's presence would greatly open up things for other receivers.

Round #2 Taylor Rapp, S, Nasir Adderly, S, or Chris Lindstrom OG. We need an instinctive Safety to pair with Amos (and maybe grooming for one after Tramon goes). We good use some help also on the O Line.

[run pMc]

I'd prefer and EDGE at 12 (Brian Burns would be my pick, assuming he's there), with Gardner-Johnson at 30, and the best OL available in R2. I'm a believer in Lindstrom...I think he's a plug and play at G, and could maybe play RT in a pinch.

I realize Hollywood Brown is flashy, but 160 lb WRs don't last long, and you can get a guy like Mecole Hardman returning punts and blowing past guys from the slot in R3 or later. Keep an eye on someone like Penny Hart, GB interviewed him at the Senior Bowl, and if he comes in for a pre-draft visit you know they are still interested. He's a blazer, has been productive, and could be had cheaper.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/penny-hart-completes-week-of-dark-horse-dominance

[wist43]

I'd prefer and EDGE at 12 (Brian Burns would be my pick, assuming he's there), with Gardner-Johnson at 30, and the best OL available in R2. I'm a believer in Lindstrom...I think he's a plug and play at G, and could maybe play RT in a pinch.

I realize Hollywood Brown is flashy, but 160 lb WRs don't last long, and you can get a guy like Mecole Hardman returning punts and blowing past guys from the slot in R3 or later. Keep an eye on someone like Penny Hart, GB interviewed him at the Senior Bowl, and if he comes in for a pre-draft visit you know they are still interested. He's a blazer, has been productive, and could be had cheaper.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/penny-hart-completes-week-of-dark-horse-dominance

I really like Gardner-Johnson... and Penny Hart lit up the Senior Bowl practices. Really showed an affinity for getting DB's turned around and flummoxed.

I agree that Brown's size is an issue... would need to be used in specific ways.

Our offense desperately needs a home run hitter though.

[call_me_ishmael]

The ideal player that realistically has a shot to be there at 12 is Ed Oliver for me. I like him because in his highlights, which are admittedly highlights, he just dominates and is so fast off the ball. There are some clips out there where he moves like a WR. he is spooky athletic compared to many of his peers.

If Oliver isn't available, I guess I want somebody like Burns or Greedy Williams (Unless a top OT is available). Burns is super springy and seems far more athletic than some of the pass rushers from last year. I'm intrigued by that. His ability to get low and bend will really help. Apparently he has great hands. Greedy Williams would be a decent pick because he is super long and fast, and his numbers show that teams struggle against him. He is like Kevin King basically. I'm not sure if he has the injury history King does.

At 30 I want Parris Campbell or some sort of a trench player. Campbell is really freaking fast AND quick. Makes you think they could use him in all sorts of ways on crossing routes, end arounds, jet sweeps, etc.

[Deputy Nutz]

I would rather have Parris Campbell than Marquis Brown.

Safety has a deep first tier, but not elite.
Offensive line has a slightly above average first tier.
Inside linebacker has an above average first tier, but it drops significantly after the first 3 guys
Corner has a very small first tier compared to previous drafts
Edge has a very top heavy tier one, and then next to nothing after
Defensive line has a very good tier one, a decent tier two and then you better have your scouting glasses on
QB is mostly vomit at this point. Pick a QB in any tier and you are reaching.
RB has a bunch of mid round guys at the top of the rankings.
WR really has no elite type cat, but I think it is the deepest position in the draft.

[run pMc]

I would rather have Parris Campbell than Marquis Brown.

Safety has a deep first tier, but not elite.
Offensive line has a slightly above average first tier.
Inside linebacker has an above average first tier, but it drops significantly after the first 3 guys
Corner has a very small first tier compared to previous drafts
Edge has a very top heavy tier one, and then next to nothing after
Defensive line has a very good tier one, a decent tier two and then you better have your scouting glasses on
QB is mostly vomit at this point. Pick a QB in any tier and you are reaching.
RB has a bunch of mid round guys at the top of the rankings.
WR really has no elite type cat, but I think it is the deepest position in the draft.

Agree with this assessment from what I've seen and heard. It aligns decently with some areas GB has needs.
EDGE, QB, LT are generally found in the higher rounds.

Random ramblings....

I find it hard to believe GB will draft a QB this year.

RB and WR can be found in mid to late rounds. Aaron Jones' injuries mean they need another back, one with skills suited to outside zone and catching short passes. Seems like the Jacobs kid from AL is the consensus top RB, and he might fall out of R1. GB is going to be a RB by committee team, so they don't need to spend early picks for a bell cow, do-it-all back. At WR, they have Adams and a bunch of young giants. If I'm Gute, I'm looking for a (probably smaller) shifty player who can play from the slot and return punts reliably. Gute likes his receivers tall, but maybe that was McCarthy...who knows. There are a lot of low to sub 4.4 burners in this class, and they will be there on Days 2 and 3. Moreso than the 40 speed, I'd look at production, route running, hands and the agility/quickness measurements: short shuttle/10 yd split/3 cone. Julian Edelman burns everyone because he has a 1.52 10 yd, 6.62 3c, 3.92 ss...and he ran a 4.52 40. I'd prefer a slot guy to be at least 5'10" and 190-200 to take the beatings they'll get going over the middle. Maybe G-MO and ESB can do some of that, but a different skillset with some gadget ability would make the offense more unpredictable and harder to defend.

OL is a need -- we saw that with Taylor being hurt and the McCray/Bell mess. Keeping Bulaga makes sense...they can plug holes with him and Turner on the right side, but neither seem reliable to me. Drafting a backup tackle to fight with Spriggs and another to battle Taylor/Turner would be my preference. I've heard assessments all over the place re: the OT class but it seems like you can get players who can step in and play through the end of R2. After that it's developmental guys, and that might be ok for your first year.

TE class is supposed to be very good so I'd look at someone here, probably mid rounds unless a top one drops to you. They will all need seasoning, Hockenson is probably gone around pick 20. I think there will be a run on them in R2-3 but they can still find one after that if they are going with Graham and Lewis off the bench first with Tonyan hopefully emerging.

They will need another EDGE player; Fackrell's contract will be up and the guy is 28 or something. Gilbert and Donnerson haven't shown much in regular season, and Z'Darius will rush inside on obvious passing downs. Taking one high -- especially if there's good depth -- makes sense.
Mike Daniels is coming off an injury and on his last contract year, they want to keep Clark but the other DL need to provide pass rush. With this being a good draft for DL, that seems like a place they will look, with the idea that they don't need to reach or draft early. There will be good talent at least into Rounds 3-4 (~Nutz's tiers 1 & 2?).

That they brought Curtis Riley in for a chat tells me they aren't done at Safety, and probably prefer to move Tramon back to CB. It also tells me what they think of Josh Jones and Raven Greene right now, and another safety will be joining the team. If they keep Tramon at S or cut him they will need another CB; I'm not confident in King/Alexander/Jackson/Brown staying healthy, and that's a very young group.

So I'd probably look defense with first pick (probably EDGE), and then after that look at OT or if there's a really good S/CB out there take them. I'd only want a S in R1-2 if I knew they could play deep middle and wouldn't be a liability in single high -- those guys don't grow on trees. Otherwise you look at a guy with speed like Thornhill later and develop him along. I'd take a CB if Tramon definitely stays at S or if a good one falls. OT seems like a likely place at 30 or 44, simply because there will be some good candidates to who can play RT available. Taking a OG in R1 is gutsy unless you know they are a Zach Martin/Steve Hutchinson type; you can find good ones later and with the run scheme changing I think I'd look for one mid-rounds. As mentioned, they wouldn't have to play a drafted OL right away.

When you look back at team's drafts, it pretty amazing. Most of the players never pan out...and I'm not just looking at TT's 2015 draft. If Gute can get 2 good players (eventual starters) and a star out of this draft they will be contenders again.

[gbgary]

...

[bobblehead]

I still want to draft defense. I think a lot of our offensive woes disappear with M4 at the helm and a modern day system. Jonah Williams is the only offensive player I would be happy with at 12. I want a lock down D because when playoffs start officials let them be more grabby and get away with things. That has hurt us often in the past other than when our D carried us to Rodgers lone Owl (and Favres)

[Deputy Nutz]

I am also a defensive minded guy when it comes to the Packers with the 12th pick. For one I thing the talent level drops considerably after the first 4 or 5 edge rushers. If you want to get one with the expectation of making a contribution in 2019 you will have to spend it with the current 12th pick. My assumption is that Allen and Bosa will not be there at 12. The next best edge rusher in the draft and honestly better than Allen is Clelin Ferrell from Clemson.

Ferrell is an impact player that has been well coached and trained at Clemson. Go look in the other thread where I have posted the game films. His film is considerably better than Burns, Sweat, and Allen.

Now this doesn't mean jack shit other than a prediction at the next level. Burns and Sweat just look to lean right now in the lower body.

If Ferrell is not there, then it would Be Oliver. If Oliver was not there than I would swing for White or one of the top three corners in this draft if available.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

When’s the last time the Packers drafted a finesse playa on offense in the first round? The Great Arm of Butte in ‘05?

The genius in moi says that WR DK Metcalf will either be the next Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson or Terrell Owens. Moss and Owens are bronzed. C-John will be, too, in the near future.

Draft Metcalf at 12.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I am also a defensive minded guy when it comes to the Packers with the 12th pick. For one I thing the talent level drops considerably after the first 4 or 5 edge rushers. If you want to get one with the expectation of making a contribution in 2019 you will have to spend it with the current 12th pick. My assumption is that Allen and Bosa will not be there at 12. The next best edge rusher in the draft and honestly better than Allen is Clelin Ferrell from Clemson.

Ferrell is an impact player that has been well coached and trained at Clemson. Go look in the other thread where I have posted the game films. His film is considerably better than Burns, Sweat, and Allen.

Now this doesn't mean jack shit other than a prediction at the next level. Burns and Sweat just look to lean right now in the lower body.

If Ferrell is not there, then it would Be Oliver. If Oliver was not there than I would swing for White or one of the top three corners in this draft if available.

What’s with your obsession with Josh Allen? Is it b/c he used the N-Word on social media?

[Fritz]

Tank, it appears Nutz has actually watched some film and evaluated the players. He's uh, actually trying to discuss football intelligently. Don't hijack this good discussion with your tired schtick.

I think Ferrell or Oliver or White would be fine at #12.

[Sparkey]

Tim Lewis, Jermichael Finley, Terrence Murphy, Sterling Sharpe, Nick Collins:

All reason why the Packers will never draft Metcalf.

[pbmax]

Tim Lewis, Jermichael Finley, Terrence Murphy, Sterling Sharpe, Nick Collins:

All reason why the Packers will never draft Metcalf.

Don't forget Jonathan Franklin.

[esoxx]

Don't forget Jonathan Franklin.

Don't forget Johnny Holland.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tim Lewis, Jermichael Finley, Terrence Murphy, Sterling Sharpe, Nick Collins:

All reason why the Packers will never draft Metcalf.

Murphy had a preexisting neck condition that the Todd administration incompetently failed to detect predraft. The rest, mostly freak incidents.

Metcalf has been cleared to ball. Rodgers needs a legitimate bomb threat. Plus, Adams is the only bona fide WR on the roster. 6’4, 220, 4.3 40 hulks don’t grow on trees. Did I mention 4.3 40?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tank, it appears Nutz has actually watched some film and evaluated the players. He's uh, actually trying to discuss football intelligently. Don't hijack this good discussion with your tired schtick.

I think Ferrell or Oliver or White would be fine at #12.

Actually, I, too, am watching films and evaluating the impending rooks. Can’t compose my ingenious “My Mastery Mockery of a Draft” without watching YouTube clips of prospects.

[bobblehead]

Murphy had a preexisting neck condition that the Todd administration incompetently failed to detect predraft. The rest, mostly freak incidents.

Metcalf has been cleared to ball. Rodgers needs a legitimate bomb threat. Plus, Adams is the only bona fide WR on the roster. 6’4, 220, 4.3 40 hulks don’t grow on trees. Did I mention 4.3 40?

And his agility drills sucked compared to that 4.3. He screams way too stiff. He also screams 'roids from the highest rooftop. Wouldn't touch him at 30.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

And his agility drills sucked compared to that 4.3. He screams way too stiff. He also screams 'roids from the highest rooftop. Wouldn't touch him at 30.

Metcalf ain't a midget slot wideout. He's an outsider, a bomb threat. His 3 cones drill time is akin to an offensive lineman's 40: immaterial. Yes, the dude is hulked. Could it be 'roid? Maybe. Maybe he simply has got the genes - his old man played for the cowardly Bears, and he's related to former Pack great Eric Metcalf. Regardless, while on IR last season, he got ripped rather than fat - that's a good thing.

Lots of experts not named Nutz have this guy going in the top 10. I wouldn't mind the German Shepherd trading up to get the dude. He looks like the Hulk but runs like the Flash (yes, Rand, I know, Hulk and Flash reside in different universes!)

[Deputy Nutz]

I haven't even said anything bad about that the guy. I am sure a team will eye him up in the top ten. He is a boom or bust pick, work out warrior that struggled to maintain health during his college football career. If you can't see the red flags and why people are nervous about this kid then you have blinders on.

[Bretsky]

I'll pass on Metcalf for defense

[call_me_ishmael]

Metcalf isn't even in the top 4 WR that I'd want, and that's only because I can name 4 WR in the draft.

[bobblehead]

Metcalf ain't a midget slot wideout. He's an outsider, a bomb threat. His 3 cones drill time is akin to an offensive lineman's 40: immaterial. Yes, the dude is hulked. Could it be 'roid? Maybe. Maybe he simply has got the genes - his old man played for the cowardly Bears, and he's related to former Pack great Eric Metcalf. Regardless, while on IR last season, he got ripped rather than fat - that's a good thing.

Lots of experts not named Nutz have this guy going in the top 10. I wouldn't mind the German Shepherd trading up to get the dude. He looks like the Hulk but runs like the Flash (yes, Rand, I know, Hulk and Flash reside in different universes!)

I hope he goes in the top 10. Just not whenever we are picking. Good genetics? 21 year olds don't look that full naturally.

[Bretsky]

Metcalf ain't a midget slot wideout. He's an outsider, a bomb threat. His 3 cones drill time is akin to an offensive lineman's 40: immaterial. Yes, the dude is hulked. Could it be 'roid? Maybe. Maybe he simply has got the genes - his old man played for the cowardly Bears, and he's related to former Pack great Eric Metcalf. Regardless, while on IR last season, he got ripped rather than fat - that's a good thing.

Lots of experts not named Nutz have this guy going in the top 10. I wouldn't mind the German Shepherd trading up to get the dude. He looks like the Hulk but runs like the Flash (yes, Rand, I know, Hulk and Flash reside in different universes!)

Sound like somebody who we should hav expected greatness stat wise in college. If they weren’t there it sound cincerning

[RashanGary]

I hope he goes in the top 10. Just not whenever we are picking. Good genetics? 21 year olds don't look that full naturally.

Aj brown too. Brown looks same as metcalf. Same team. Two 21 year olds looking like that.... suspicious!

https://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/aj-brown-dk-metcalf.jpg

[RashanGary]

Aj brown had 1,300 yards to metcalfs 600 as well. Back to back years. Brown is better. Period. Both roided out of their minds.

[The Shadow]

Devin White should be the pick - if avail.

[texaspackerbacker]

I say again, we do not need help at WR. We have plenty of quality there right now. 6'4" receivers who run a 4.3 forty don't grow on trees? True, but isn't that the exact height and 40 time that Valdez-Scantling has?

[Gotarace]

I say again, we do not need help at WR. We have plenty of quality there right now. 6'4" receivers who run a 4.3 forty don't grow on trees? True, but isn't that the exact height and 40 time that Valdez-Scantling has?
Have to agree with Tex here...Let's see what our last season rookies got. Hope they all make a leap forward this year and with the new coaching scheme maybe we will play to there strengths not the same 7 Stubby plays over and over again.

[pbmax]

Murphy had a preexisting neck condition that the Todd administration incompetently failed to detect predraft. The rest, mostly freak incidents.

Metcalf has been cleared to ball. Rodgers needs a legitimate bomb threat. Plus, Adams is the only bona fide WR on the roster. 6’4, 220, 4.3 40 hulks don’t grow on trees. Did I mention 4.3 40?

I am interested to hear how you detect spinal stenosis these days. Or why no one found out about it with Sterling Sharpe? Maybe it wasn't Sharpe, who had instability near his A1 vert., but I know someone in the Packer past did.

Are we sure that is what Murphy had?

I can see a stenosis diagnosis in the hands of scouts after Sharpe. "I saw him walk down a hallway and bend his neck to the left to avoid an Exit sign. He then grabbed the side of his neck and rubbed it. He's got the stenosis for sure. And his girlfriend's friends wouldn't talk to me. Red flagged.

[pbmax]

I'll pass on Metcalf for defense

I think he could play EDGE too. Do you like him now?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Folks, Metcalf no doubt has elite Kung Fu. Would be a top 5 pick if not for injuries. Rodgers has played with some good wideouts. But has he ever played with an elite, diva WR?

The Packers have drafted enough wanker D-players in the 1st round. Time to gift-wrap Rodgers an elite WR - Metcalf. Megatron never did the 3-come drill cos he knew his time was sloth. Megatron was awesome running go and post routes. Draft Metcalf and use him like the Lions once used Megatron.

Anyone who thinks the Packers don’t need upgrades at WR is delusional. Ask any Queen fans to name 3 current Packers WRs, and they’d be like, Davante Adams and um...., Brian May and Adam Lambert?

Adams has morphed into a good WR. But he ain’t elite. The rest of the current WRs aren’t capable of arousing anyone with their wanker performances.

Gotta draft Metcalf if he’s available at 12. Hell, trade up for the dude!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Aj brown had 1,300 yards to metcalfs 600 as well. Back to back years. Brown is better. Period. Both roided out of their minds.

Brown is projected as a slot guy in the NFL. Outsiders are paid more than slot guys for a reason. Sure, Brown had better stats, but Metcalf’s Kung Fu is far better.

If the two of them were TEs, Metcalf would be J-Mike and Brown, Dick Rod. I seem to recall you saying that Dick Rod is way better than J-Mike. :)

[Deputy Nutz]

I say again, we do not need help at WR. We have plenty of quality there right now. 6'4" receivers who run a 4.3 forty don't grow on trees? True, but isn't that the exact height and 40 time that Valdez-Scantling has?

You don't have a true slot guy. I don't know if it matters.

[pbmax]

You don't have a true slot guy. I don't know if it matters.

If I got one question with M4 right now, I would want to how he envisions attacking the middle of the field on play action. Because personnel-wise, right now, I see a lot of flat routes and short crossing routes/mesh.

But if those don't break for some significant YAC, its a long slog.

I suspect Adams will be running a lot of slants and crossers.

[texaspackerbacker]

You don't have a true slot guy. I don't know if it matters.

Where is it written that a slot receiver has to be Cobb or Beasley size? I agree with what Justin Harrell wrote in here that Allison might be well suited for that spot - more so than split way out. For that matter, I even like St. Brown in that spot. Let some 5'10 DB jump the slant route and try to go over him hahahaha.

[wist43]

Folks, Metcalf no doubt has elite Kung Fu. Would be a top 5 pick if not for injuries. Rodgers has played with some good wideouts. But has he ever played with an elite, diva WR?

The Packers have drafted enough wanker D-players in the 1st round. Time to gift-wrap Rodgers an elite WR - Metcalf. Megatron never did the 3-come drill cos he knew his time was sloth. Megatron was awesome running go and post routes. Draft Metcalf and use him like the Lions once used Megatron.

Anyone who thinks the Packers don’t need upgrades at WR is delusional. Ask any Queen fans to name 3 current Packers WRs, and they’d be like, Davante Adams and um...., Brian May and Adam Lambert?

Adams has morphed into a good WR. But he ain’t elite. The rest of the current WRs aren’t capable of arousing anyone with their wanker performances.

Gotta draft Metcalf if he’s available at 12. Hell, trade up for the dude!

I'm not sure Metcalf is even a 1st round guy... he's a straight-line guy, and that's about it.

I'd much rather have Parris Campbell.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not sure Metcalf is even a 1st round guy... he's a straight-line guy, and that's about it.

I'd much rather have Parris Campbell.

I agree with wist. I'd take Campbell over Metcalf.

[Fritz]

Folks, Metcalf no doubt has elite Kung Fu. Would be a top 5 pick if not for injuries. Rodgers has played with some good wideouts. But has he ever played with an elite, diva WR?

The Packers have drafted enough wanker D-players in the 1st round. Time to gift-wrap Rodgers an elite WR - Metcalf. Megatron never did the 3-come drill cos he knew his time was sloth. Megatron was awesome running go and post routes. Draft Metcalf and use him like the Lions once used Megatron.

Anyone who thinks the Packers don’t need upgrades at WR is delusional. Ask any Queen fans to name 3 current Packers WRs, and they’d be like, Davante Adams and um...., Brian May and Adam Lambert?

Adams has morphed into a good WR. But he ain’t elite. The rest of the current WRs aren’t capable of arousing anyone with their wanker performances.

Gotta draft Metcalf if he’s available at 12. Hell, trade up for the dude!


Tank, I'm as hot for Drew Barrymore's body as you are for Metcalf's, but my desire for her gorgeous body doesn't mean I think the Packers should draft her.

You seem to be getting a little mixed up here.

[run pMc]

Tank, I'm as hot for Drew Barrymore's body as you are for Metcalf's, but my desire for her gorgeous body doesn't mean I think the Packers should draft her.

You seem to be getting a little mixed up here.
LOL
Gute drafted 3 big fast WR's last year...MVS can run a sub 4.4 go-route. Not sure why you'd draft another guy to do that. I doubt he can run a complete route tree AND separate from corners, and even if you only ever have him run 2-3 routes, I'm not sure that's a fit for the offense.
I could see him doing damage running just those routes playing for Bruce Arians or something, but at this point he's a scheme specific physical marvel who has considerable injury history, and wasn't the statistically best WR on his team.

I'd prefer defense or a 10 year starter at OT.

[Joemailman]

LOL
Gute drafted 3 big fast WR's last year...MVS can run a sub 4.4 go-route. Not sure why you'd draft another guy to do that. I doubt he can run a complete route tree AND separate from corners, and even if you only ever have him run 2-3 routes, I'm not sure that's a fit for the offense.
I could see him doing damage running just those routes playing for Bruce Arians or something, but at this point he's a scheme specific physical marvel who has considerable injury history, and wasn't the statistically best WR on his team.

I'd prefer defense or a 10 year starter at OT.

I'm a little surprised people aren't more optimistic here about MVS. He had the most receiving yards here of a rookie wide receiver since James Jones, and the most of any rookie wide receiver with Aaron Rodgers as QB. Both he and St. Brown averaged over 15 YPR. They both have a lot to learn, but tons of ability. I'd be very surprised if Gutey used a 1st round pick on a WR. Gutekunst was here as a scout when TT drafted Greg Jennings, James Jones and Jordy Nelson in successive years. None were 1st round picks.

[mraynrand]

Tank, I'm as hot for Drew Barrymore's body as you are for Metcalf's, but my desire for her gorgeous body doesn't mean I think the Packers should draft her.

You seem to be getting a little mixed up here.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhorrornews.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FFirestarter-1984-movie-drew-barrymore-6.jpg&f=1

[Fritz]

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhorrornews.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FFirestarter-1984-movie-drew-barrymore-6.jpg&f=1


https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f3/d2/ea/f3d2ea9c0d34fba39c0a2b49fef7833b--drew-barrymore-s-inspiring-people.jpg

Well, she looks like a slot receiver here, to me, but that doesn't mean I want Gutekunst to draft her. I don't think she could take the pounding.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think the Packers have really high expectations for MVS, and St. Brown is probably the best specimen at the WR position. The Packers could come to terms that Trevor Davis is garbage, and Allen is no more than 4, and that leaves Moore at 5 assuming they don't think he is already a bust. Could they upgrade? Yes but any sane GM would be looking to some where between the 2nd and 3rd round for that guy that could come in and play right away. Not many of those guys hanging around waiting to be drafted on the second day of the draft. Again it all depends on how the draft plays out, and who falls because of teams picking on need. AJ Brown, Parris Campbell, and Deebo Samuel could be those guys in the second. Emmanuel Hall, and a few other guys could be there in the 3rd.

[yetisnowman]

I see Davante and a bunch of 4-5 receivers. Just like before last season. No consistency. I would be disappointed if we didn't target a speedy/slot guy and maybe another more polished big bodied athletic types in the first 4 rounds. We need playmakers. MVS had some moments, but in the heart of the season with Our back against the wall he was invisible. Not exactly a guy I want to just assume will be a clear #2.
I would love some combination of M. Brown/Campbell/A.J. Brown/Deebo Samuel/Hardiman. 2 of those 6 would be amazing. We better take Oliver if he falls, same with White. I love Clelin Ferell too. We go that way with 12, and get 2 of those guys in our next 4 picks. I'm ecstatic

[yetisnowman]

Dream scenario. Ferrell, M.Brown, Gardner-johnson, Deebo Samuel first 4 picks.

[pbmax]

I see Davante and a bunch of 4-5 receivers. Just like before last season. No consistency. I would be disappointed if we didn't target a speedy/slot guy and maybe another more polished big bodied athletic types in the first 4 rounds. We need playmakers. MVS had some moments, but in the heart of the season with Our back against the wall he was invisible. Not exactly a guy I want to just assume will be a clear #2.
I would love some combination of M. Brown/Campbell/A.J. Brown/Deebo Samuel/Hardiman. 2 of those 6 would be amazing. We better take Oliver if he falls, same with White. I love Clelin Ferell too. We go that way with 12, and get 2 of those guys in our next 4 picks. I'm ecstatic

Never say never, but I would be stunned if they grab 2 of them before Day 3. If the right prospect lands in their lap I can see it on Day 2 and then another one on Day 3. They still need returners as well.

[pbmax]

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f3/d2/ea/f3d2ea9c0d34fba39c0a2b49fef7833b--drew-barrymore-s-inspiring-people.jpg

Well, she looks like a slot receiver here, to me, but that doesn't mean I want Gutekunst to draft her. I don't think she could take the pounding.


Fritz, you have to stop hiding out in the weeds in the back of her house. You're gonna get in trouble. Good camera work though.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Folks, imagine the GAB throwing to a in-his-prime Megatron. Draft Metcalf and Pack get that.

Butte ain’t a young un anymore. An elite, diva WR like Metcalf would make Rodgers life more jolly.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I think the Packers have really high expectations for MVS, and St. Brown is probably the best specimen at the WR position. The Packers could come to terms that Trevor Davis is garbage, and Allen is no more than 4, and that leaves Moore at 5 assuming they don't think he is already a bust. Could they upgrade? Yes but any sane GM would be looking to some where between the 2nd and 3rd round for that guy that could come in and play right away. Not many of those guys hanging around waiting to be drafted on the second day of the draft. Again it all depends on how the draft plays out, and who falls because of teams picking on need. AJ Brown, Parris Campbell, and Deebo Samuel could be those guys in the second. Emmanuel Hall, and a few other guys could be there in the 3rd.

By Allen, I’m guessing you meant Kumerow? I’d put Kum in the slot. He’s faster and quicker than that sloth Allison. Plus, he’s white.

I’d draft Metcalf at 12. Then WR Ridley Riley, bro of Calvin, in the 2nd round. Stay tuned for my ingenious “My Mastery Mockery of a Draft” - Remember, nobody knew who QB Luis Perez was til I jotted his name down in the MMMD.

[theeaterofshades]

I want 1 of the 2 first rounders to go to the non-sexy OT position as Bulaga is a shell. Aaron needs time to throw/roll out. The other pick, I'd like TE, ILB or S. Unless an elite DE/Edge rusher drops because let's be honest free agency history indicates we will be lucky if 1 of the Smiths turns out.

[Deputy Nutz]

By Allen, I’m guessing you meant Kumerow? I’d put Kum in the slot. He’s faster and quicker than that sloth Allison. Plus, he’s white.

I’d draft Metcalf at 12. Then WR Ridley Riley, bro of Calvin, in the 2nd round. Stay tuned for my ingenious “My Mastery Mockery of a Draft” - Remember, nobody knew who QB Luis Perez was til I jotted his name down in the MMMD.

Allison. That is what I meant. I know your trollish tenancies, but at least try be intelligent when talking about football. We all like certain guys in this draft, but you just bang your drum about the same guys over and over and see no other perspectives but your own. Two receivers in the first round?

[Fritz]

Fritz, you have to stop hiding out in the weeds in the back of her house. You're gonna get in trouble. Good camera work though.

I would hate to have to stop hanging out in the weeds behind her house, as I only recently secured my position as gardener there.

I call myself "Chauncey."

[The Shadow]

I would hate to have to stop hanging out in the weeds behind her house, as I only recently secured my position as gardener there.

I call myself "Chauncey."

And I bet you like to watch.....

[RashanGary]

Nutz,

The middle of the field is the most congested and dangerous to throw. Because of this it seems intelligent, savvy, trust worthy players usually gain a QBs trust in that part of the field. Also, quick agile players tend to succeed more than others in there because they can dart they’re way into the open spaces quickly.

Allison has both qualities. I think he’s going to be our slot.

[pbmax]

I would hate to have to stop hanging out in the weeds behind her house, as I only recently secured my position as gardener there.

I call myself "Chauncey."

OK, this sent me down three simultaneous rabbit holes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_There

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Canterbury_Tales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauncey_Gardner-Johnson

Only one of which is a safety I like in the 2nd round.

[pbmax]

I will give Tank this, he reminded me of Kumerow. Who might be the answer at slot.

If he is considered the likely starter there, with Luxury Automobile and Lead Foot Graham, I might have to drop TE/slot out of immediate starter need category altogether.

The question then is do they like one of the 3 TEs so much they grab them in the first round?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Allison. That is what I meant. I know your trollish tenancies, but at least try be intelligent when talking about football. We all like certain guys in this draft, but you just bang your drum about the same guys over and over and see no other perspectives but your own. Two receivers in the first round?

Two WRs in round 1 would be awesome. However, there's a good chance Riley will be there for the Pack in round 2. Riley ain't as fast as his bro, but he's bigger and runs routes just as well as his bro does.

How many more premium 1st rounders must the Packers waste on defensive players while the Great Arm of Butte remains potent?

Hawk, Harrell, Raji, Jones, Perry, Randall, Clark, and the such don't inspire anyone or anything. The best player drafted in the 1st rd during the A-Rod era is the guy you love to hate: Claymaker.

Rodgers' prime is a-fleeting. Time to arm the GAB with some weapons of mass destruction. Take the Calvin Johnson-clone Metcalf at 12. Take a hotshot RB at 30. Take Riley in rd 2 and insert him in the slot - dude has the making of a black Adam Thielen.

How's this for an intelligent discussion? :)

[Deputy Nutz]

You keep saying the same thing, and nobody wants to discuss the same thing with you.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I will give Tank this, he reminded me of Kumerow. Who might be the answer at slot.

If he is considered the likely starter there, with Luxury Automobile and Lead Foot Graham, I might have to drop TE/slot out of immediate starter need category altogether.

The question then is do they like one of the 3 TEs so much they grab them in the first round?

He may be lying, but I think LaFluer just said that Kumerow will have to make the roster at split end or flanker. LaFluer wants Allison in the slot, which is stupid as Allison is neither fast nor quick.

[Zool]

Take the Calvin Johnson-clone Metcalf at 12.

How's this for an intelligent discussion? :)

Not even close

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You keep saying the same thing, and nobody wants to discuss the same thing with you.

Whatever.

[mraynrand]

You keep saying the same thing, and nobody wants to discuss the same thing with you.


Yeah, there's one, but otherwise, we're solid.

[pbmax]

He may be lying, but I think LaFluer just said that Kumerow will have to make the roster at split end or flanker. LaFluer wants Allison in the slot, which is stupid as Allison is neither fast nor quick.

You have a link or source?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You have a link or source?

Packersnews. The article about the joint practice. Not sure how to copy/paste url on tablet. Olivia Reiner is hot.

[SudsMcBucky]

Packersnews. The article about the joint practice. Not sure how to copy/paste url on tablet. Olivia Reiner is hot.

Really????

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Really????

She kinda looks like a young Neve Campbell. :)

[SudsMcBucky]

She kinda looks like a young Neve Campbell. :)

I think someone needs new glasses. :)

[George Cumby]

Olivia Reiner is hot.

If you are into Monica Lewinsky/Alanis Morisette hybrids, who are we to judge?

[pbmax]

Packersnews. The article about the joint practice. Not sure how to copy/paste url on tablet. Olivia Reiner is hot.


LaFleur suggested that his best receiver, Davante Adams, probably will line up some at slot receiver and named Geronimo Allison as among the players he can use in that role now that the Packers have allowed Randall Cobb to leave the team in free agency. He sees Jake Kumerow as an outside receiver, though, not a slot.

As for the qualities he’s looking for in a slot receiver, LaFleur said the emphasis is on smart, instinctive players who are good at making quick reads on choice routes.

This makes zero sense to me unless he is lying about ability to make reads and really means size.

[mraynrand]

If you are into Monica Lewinsky/Alanis Morisette hybrids, who are we to judge?

Hand in Bill's Pocket?

[RashanGary]

This makes zero sense to me unless he is lying about ability to make reads and really means size.

I said Allison would be good in the slot a week or two ago, before Lafleur said it. I gave the same reasoning Lafleur did. I said he’s quick and agile and he’s smart and savvy. I said that’s the qualities successful slot receivers usually have

[RashanGary]

Nutz,

The middle of the field is the most congested and dangerous to throw. Because of this it seems intelligent, savvy, trust worthy players usually gain a QBs trust in that part of the field. Also, quick agile players tend to succeed more than others in there because they can dart they’re way into the open spaces quickly.

Allison has both qualities. I think he’s going to be our slot.

I saw the same things Lafleur did in Allison. I agree with Lafleur that he’s an excellent fit inside. Said this before the Lafleur quote.

[Joemailman]

This makes zero sense to me unless he is lying about ability to make reads and really means size.

Why do you think he's lying?

[Bretsky]

Why do you think he's lying?


You actually think Allison can excel in the slot ?

Do head coaches ever sugar coat things when they perhaps don't have all of the talent pieces on the roster ?

[Joemailman]

You actually think Allison can excel in the slot ?

Do head coaches ever sugar coat things when they perhaps don't have all of the talent pieces on the roster ?

I see no reason he would publicly say a player can do things that he feels the player can't do. Why should we assume Allison can't play in the slot?

[Joemailman]

https://www.packers.com/news/packers-keeping-their-options-open-in-the-slot


Yet, neither LaFleur nor General Manager Brian Gutekunst is of the opinion the Packers’ next slot receiver must have the same makeup and measurables as the 5-foot-10, 192-pound Cobb.

“Any receiver it starts with their ability to separate, that’s one thing we’re always looking for,” said LaFleur at this week’s NFL Annual Meetings. “But I think a slot, especially with what we want to do, has to have some good instincts, and really you want a smart player that you can call choice routes with and it takes smart players to do that.”


LaFleur has learned slot receivers come in all shapes and sizes during his decade in the league. Mohamed Sanu (6-2, 210) was a dynamic force in the middle of the field in Atlanta when LaFleur was an assistant for the Falcons in 2015-16.

As the offensive coordinator of the Los Angeles Rams in 2017, LaFleur led the NFL’s highest-scoring offense with 6-foot-2, 208-pound Cooper Kupp lining up in the slot. The rookie third-round pick caught 62 passes for 869 yards and five touchdowns.

Last year in Tennessee, LaFleur had big plans for 6-foot-2, 248-pound Delanie Walker in the middle of the field before they needed to be shelved when the four-time Pro Bowler suffered a significant leg injury in the opener.

Over the past three years, the Packers have filled their receiving corps with tall and lengthy prospects Geronimo Allison (6-3, 202), Equanimeous St. Brown (6-5, 214), Marquez Valdes-Scantling (6-4, 206), J’Mon Moore (6-3, 205) and former UW-Whitewater standout Jake Kumerow (6-4, 209).

Speaking with reporters at this week’s NFL Annual Meetings, LaFleur singled out Allison as a versatile receiver with “a lot of flexibility to play inside or outside.” Gutekunst added the overriding similarity of successful slot receivers is skill and durability.

Allison has always been a quick study and someone Rodgers likes to throw to when he's in there. I'm not surprised LaFleur thinks he can play in the slot.

[pbmax]

Why do you think he's lying?

Because he did not say Allison would be an excellent or prototypical guy in the slot.

He first says Adams will play some there, which is fine. move him around, and make him harder to cover. Then he suggests Allison. So is he the second choice? This sounds like slot by committee which it might be for a year or two. You can't guarantee finding the slot guy you like in any one given year. It basically sounds like draft dissembling to me.

But I also don't buy Justin's explanation. Allison is not quick, though he is a good route runner and Rodgers does trust him. He could do the slot, but he is not really built for it. I don't think he present a matchup challenge at the position.

[pbmax]

https://www.packers.com/news/packers-keeping-their-options-open-in-the-slot



Allison has always been a quick study and someone Rodgers likes to throw to when he's in there. I'm not surprised LaFleur thinks he can play in the slot.

If its option routes from the slot, then I could see this making more sense. I had no idea Kumerow was 6' 4". That sounds ridiculous.

Back to Adams as the first mentioned guy, Adams excels at getting clean breaks off the line with an array of fake steps and stutters. If you were to run a traditional slot package for him, there might be an issue of timing. But it its option routes, then maybe that is not a concern. Still seems a bit of a waste having your best take off guy get moved around to open him up. Adams is one of the best at it.

[Bretsky]

I see no reason he would publicly say a player can do things that he feels the player can't do.


Haven't we witnessed coaching building up players to be better than they are in the past ? Maybe the sugarcoating is a motivational attempt...maybe not.....but we'd saw these statements plenty in the past

[pbmax]

I see no reason he would publicly say a player can do things that he feels the player can't do. Why should we assume Allison can't play in the slot?

Nick Macdonald?

Actually Joe, I think your baseline contention is false. Coaches ALL THE TIME project players into spots that they ultimately fail at. Remember Jarett Boykin as a starting WR?

That said, your story from packers.com seems to suggest they are indeed going to try some different things at slot. However, its still not clear if this is ideal or just the situation they find themselves in. The Cooper Cupp comparison is a good example of it working well.

But the Packers have also played Jordy Nelson in the slot, and that was obviously not their first choice.

I still feel like this is draft dissembling. All the following are true:

1. If after the draft all we have at slot is Adams, Allison, Kumerow and MVS, then Adams and Allison get first shot.
2. If we draft a player with a specific skill set, then all bets are off
3. If we draft a monster TE who is a true pass catching threat, all bets in the slot are off
4. If we draft a couple of developmental slot guys, we'll see what happens, but we need a reliable target first over specific physical traits.

[Joemailman]

Nick Macdonald?

Actually Joe, I think your baseline contention is false. Coaches ALL THE TIME project players into spots that they ultimately fail at. Remember Jarett Boykin as a starting WR?

That said, your story from packers.com seems to suggest they are indeed going to try some different things at slot. However, its still not clear if this is ideal or just the situation they find themselves in. The Cooper Cupp comparison is a good example of it working well.

But the Packers have also played Jordy Nelson in the slot, and that was obviously not their first choice.

I still feel like this is draft dissembling. All the following are true:

1. If after the draft all we have at slot is Adams, Allison, Kumerow and MVS, then Adams and Allison get first shot.
2. If we draft a player with a specific skill set, then all bets are off
3. If we draft a monster TE who is a true pass catching threat, all bets in the slot are off
4. If we draft a couple of developmental slot guys, we'll see what happens, but we need a reliable target first over specific physical traits.

Yeah, I misread what Bretsky was saying. I agree that coaches often make player projections that don't work out. Actually, I don't think we'll see a situation where one their top WR's is the main slot guy. I think we'll see most, if not all of their WR's playing the slot at times. I don't think you'll see Gutey using a high draft pick on a guy who is considered to be mainly a slot guy.

[The Shadow]

Having an M. Brown or Andy Isabella in the slot would totally freak out opposing Defensive Coordinators.

[wist43]

Having an M. Brown or Andy Isabella in the slot would totally freak out opposing Defensive Coordinators.

I really like Brown... if they think he can stay healthy - I'd definitely go after him.

Lot of buzz about NKeal Harry though... so they may try to go after him at 30, maybe even move up to make sure they get him.

[run pMc]

I really like Brown... if they think he can stay healthy - I'd definitely go after him.

Lot of buzz about NKeal Harry though... so they may try to go after him at 30, maybe even move up to make sure they get him.

I hope the NKeal Harry talk is a smokescreen...I wouldn't want him unless he falls very far. From what I've read he's a contested ball expert, which tells me he doesn't do a great job of separating from college CBs. He'll have a lot of trouble in the pros in that case, and we saw last year that Rodgers won't throw to guys unless they are wide open while glowing neon and orange with sirens flashing.

Brown is a dynamic player, but I don't know how you can expect him to stay healthy for a full season at under 170 pounds. He'll get knocked into the next decade going over the middle, which is essential for a slot WR. That, plus there are other bigger speedsters with YAC abliity who can play the slot and be drafted later.

[Joemailman]

I hope the NKeal Harry talk is a smokescreen...I wouldn't want him unless he falls very far. From what I've read he's a contested ball expert, which tells me he doesn't do a great job of separating from college CBs. He'll have a lot of trouble in the pros in that case, and we saw last year that Rodgers won't throw to guys unless they are wide open while glowing neon and orange with sirens flashing.



You know who else was a contested ball expert? Davante Adams. When Derek Carr really needed a completion, he would throw the ball up to Adams and let him go get it. And in fact, the scouting reports on Harry make him sound a lot like Adams.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/nkeal-harry


N'Keal Harry projects favorably as a prototypical X-receiver in the NFL. Harry's size, contested catch ability and skills defeating press coverage combine to offer an impressive package of traits, especially when considering the versatility Harry brings to an offense as a RAC receiver, deep threat and as a red-zone target. Harry may require some time to further develop but he has dominant traits.

[pbmax]

I hope the NKeal Harry talk is a smokescreen...I wouldn't want him unless he falls very far. From what I've read he's a contested ball expert, which tells me he doesn't do a great job of separating from college CBs. He'll have a lot of trouble in the pros in that case, and we saw last year that Rodgers won't throw to guys unless they are wide open while glowing neon and orange with sirens flashing.

In the extended offense, I think this is true. He is waiting for something to break big.

But c'mon. Ever see him pass to James Jones (2016)? Pass to Davante Adams on a sideline route? How about jump balls to Graham. Anything to post-surgery Jordy? Hell, he even threw them to Cobb on occasion. He will not do this every down and I think sometimes he is too careful, but never throwing to anyone covered is too broad a statement.

[texaspackerbacker]

Nkeal Harry runs a 40 between 4.5 and 4.6. He's the same size as Valdez-Scantling. Why would we waste a high draft pick for basically less than what we have right now?

Talk of getting this kid Brown or Isabella as a slot receiver? I wouldn't be opposed to getting a pint-sized speed demon late in the draft, but basically, they would just be slightly faster but unproven and smaller versions of Randall Cobb. I have said before, you don't necessarily need a midget as a slot receiver. I'd rather see a big guy with at least fair speed like Adams or Allison or maybe St. Brown there. The big drawback to slants and other quick routes is DBs jumping the route. That's a whole lot more likely with some 5'9 guy than with a 6'3 or 6'5 receiver.

Bottom line is we have at least six very good wideouts now. We absolutely don't need to use a high or even mid draft pick for another.

[Fritz]

The closer we get to the draft, the more people seem to focus on need instead of talent.

Let's just let Gutekunst draft the absolutely most talented and dedicated football players he can, and if we have seven wide receivers but only three safeties on the roster at the end of the draft, that will sort itself out later.

[pbmax]

The closer we get to the draft, the more people seem to focus on need instead of talent.

Let's just let Gutekunst draft the absolutely most talented and dedicated football players he can, and if we have seven wide receivers but only three safeties on the roster at the end of the draft, that will sort itself out later.

CBS has a mock with the Packers trading both first round picks to the Bucs for Quinnen Williams.

[texaspackerbacker]

The closer we get to the draft, the more people seem to focus on need instead of talent.

Let's just let Gutekunst draft the absolutely most talented and dedicated football players he can, and if we have seven wide receivers but only three safeties on the roster at the end of the draft, that will sort itself out later.

It's not so much focusing on need as it is avoiding positions where there is no need. You could easily draft the BPA but limit it to 6 or 8 positions where we aren't loaded already.

[wist43]

I've warmed up to Harry, and have always liked Brown. The other Wideout I like in that 30-44 range is Campbell.

Just depends on how the draft falls.

I like Jaylon Ferguson there, Adderley, the Florida Safety, Risner, Lindstrom.

I'm not as worried about need this year, as I am about making sure we get good players. I think you can plug and play at just any position if you get a good enough player.

[SudsMcBucky]

It's not so much focusing on need as it is avoiding positions where there is no need. You could easily draft the BPA but limit it to 6 or 8 positions where we aren't loaded already.

Is there a position on this team that we're already "loaded", other than QB?

[cheesner]

Is there a position on this team that we're already "loaded", other than QB?

At times our Safeties played as if they were loaded. Not sure if that counts.

[pbmax]

I kinda doubt Edge is getting a pick in the Top 2 rounds. Anything could happen and someone could drop, but I think 2 new starters plus Fackrell and Gilbert mean the position is settled for early picks.

So not loaded, but not bare either.

I’d prefer BPA, but I think they look elsewhere.

[texaspackerbacker]

Is there a position on this team that we're already "loaded", other than QB?

Wide Receiver, D Line, Corner, and now probably OLB. Maybe RB too.

[wist43]

We don't "need" anything really... there are some developmental receivers, we can patch and plug at safety, we can get by this year at TE, etc.

But in the big picture, we dont know if any, some or all of the WR's are going to turn out; pretty sure Burks is a lost cause; ditto Josh Jones; Martinez is average at best; the Smith's are really not LB's - either one of them; Bulaga's days are numbered; we could use another quality RB, etc, etc...

In short, we can take the BPA, and be confident he will become a useable asset very quickly.

[bobblehead]

CBS has a mock with the Packers trading both first round picks to the Bucs for Quinnen Williams.

I despise that idea. I am more and more liking the thought of moving back a bit and then using what we picked up to move up from 30. Finish with 15 and 19 maybe losing a bit extra in the process. We could get 2 real diff makers that way.

[wist43]

This draft is the most wide open draft I can remember... huge variance in projections.

Most drafts you get a pretty good idea who is going in the top 15, with a couple of oddball fliers in there; but, this year I've seen guys projected in the top 5 in one mock, and the mid-20's in others.

Add it up, and I have no idea what it means :)

[The Shadow]

If Devin White is gone by 12, move back & select Bush. Then move up for Marquise Brown for the slot.

[SudsMcBucky]

Wide Receiver, D Line, Corner, and now probably OLB. Maybe RB too.

We may have a lot of "guys" at those positions, but I wouldn't consider us "loaded" at any one of those. Maybe OLB would be the closest.

[run pMc]

but never throwing to anyone covered is too broad a statement.

It was an obvious exaggeratoin, but you get the point. He throws a lot less contested balls that he used to...and there were weekly posting on this forum from last year where he wasn't throwing to (or even seeing) open receivers.
I just don't see the value in Harry for R1, but I could certainly be wrong.

Simply put, I think there are other areas where the likely available talent and team needs come together better for GB when it comes to picking in R1.

Looking at it from a need standpoint...
They could use players everywhere except P, K, and possibly QB. They can go into the season with what they have at WR, but not RB, TE, or OL. They can go into the season with what they have at DL, ILB (even if it's not great), and possibly CB/EDGE, but not S. If they want to play less mistake-prone rookies, they will need to improve that depth and do some in-advance roster filling (like figuring out what to do about Mike Daniels, Bulaga, Tramon, and Jimmy Graham after this year).

I'm not advocating drafting purely by need, BTW. I think you want to find the best fits - based on your scheme and the talent, and if it's a tie between 2+ players you go with the one you need/like best. I'm glad to see more use of FA to fill holes or provide flexibility with drafting so they aren't left with playing people out of position or overly vulnerable.

[Deputy Nutz]

The more film I have watched, and the more I try to understand what the Packers' needs are in terms of their roster here is what I think they should do in the draft.

They need to move up if possible and draft Josh Allen. He is the only true 3-4 outside linebacker that can play in space, rush the passers, and cover down field. Every other edge guy is defensive end that tries to be a stand up OLB every now and again. It simply might not be possible to move up to get him and I understand that, but if the board goes wonky and QBs go higher than expected then I think the Packer look to package picks to get up and draft Allen.

If they can't draft Allen then they go defensively with their first pick they really need to think about drafting Ferrell, Bush, and possibly White if he falls.

If they go offense, they should have an opportunity at drafting one of the top three tackles in this draft. Jonah Williams can play all over the line and might be a nice right guard, or right tackle. He will have the opportunity to play right away. Dillard is another option. Jawan Taylor is at the top of the list but I wouldn't like him in Green Bay. The other is Dalton Risner. You might not want to draft him 12 over all, but you might want to move up from 30 to draft him. Risner can play all over, just not a left tackle.

Safety is really deep, the first tier of guys should start being drafted at the end of the first round and into the early 3rd round. Guys that I have in my first tier are: Johnathan Abrams, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, Taylor Rapp, Nazzir Adderley, Darnell Savage, Juan Thornhill.

So you say you want a dynamic playmaker on offense to complement Aaron Rodgers? Interesting. The first question I would ask, "Do you have any faith in the young guys drafted last year?"

MVS had a very commendable rookie campaign, and St. Brown is a physical specimen that has a weird family, but he is as athletic as anyone in this draft at the receiver position. You can go ahead and draft a receiver or tight end with the 30th pick and you will get a good wr, or a possibly great tight end, but TE is pretty deep in this draft and I could see a 3rd round out perform a the top 3 guys easily. It is all how you decide to use the TE.

[Deputy Nutz]

...

[Deputy Nutz]

...

[Fritz]

The little I watched Josh Allen, he looked like a skinny defensive end who could get pushed around. I did not think of him as an OLB, so my question: I thought I saw him play with a hand in the dirt, but did he in fact play as an OLB at Kentucky?

I was thinking that you might be able to convert a guy like Chase Winovich into a good OLB. He's undersized a bit for a defensive lineman, but could perhaps be converted to OLB. He seems quick enough.

[texaspackerbacker]

These kinds of posts are a breath of fresh air compared to the pervasive irrelevant shit that has been so prevalent lately.

Nutz, didn't we just deal with that need for an edge rusher with the Smith boys? Preston has demonstrated a decent ability to drop in coverage and should be an upgrade pass rusher from anything we've had since Clay was in his prime, and Za'Darius may not be much in coverage, but he should be one of the best pass rushers in the league. With those two book ends and Fackrell and Gilbert in the rotation, we should be as good or better than any team in the league at that position group - no need for more in the draft.

Allen didn't impress me much either in the limited amount I saw him.

We could still use another excellent Safety - I'm glad to read that this draft is heavy at that position. Getting one of those guys in the second round would be good.

I want the best ILB available at #12 and probably the best TE available at #30.

I say again, we do NOT need a WR in the draft, absolutely not the first or second day. We also have no need for a D Lineman early in the draft.

We should go for a couple or three O Linemen from the 3rd round on, and I still want to see kicker drafted as a likely replacement for Crosby.

[call_me_ishmael]

I was thinking that you might be able to convert a guy like Chase Winovich into a good OLB. He's undersized a bit for a defensive lineman, but could perhaps be converted to OLB. He seems quick enough.

His athletic numbers test are super similar to Clay Matthews. His combine was freaky deaky. I'd love him in the second and figure out where you play him later. I'm all about stocking up on the best athletes available at each spot.

[mraynrand]

I'd love him in the second and figure out where you play him later. I'm all about stocking up on the best athletes available at each spot.

How do you pick him as the best athlete at his spot when you don't know his spot?

[Deputy Nutz]

These kinds of posts are a breath of fresh air compared to the pervasive irrelevant shit that has been so prevalent lately.

Nutz, didn't we just deal with that need for an edge rusher with the Smith boys? Preston has demonstrated a decent ability to drop in coverage and should be an upgrade pass rusher from anything we've had since Clay was in his prime, and Za'Darius may not be much in coverage, but he should be one of the best pass rushers in the league. With those two book ends and Fackrell and Gilbert in the rotation, we should be as good or better than any team in the league at that position group - no need for more in the draft.

Allen didn't impress me much either in the limited amount I saw him.

We could still use another excellent Safety - I'm glad to read that this draft is heavy at that position. Getting one of those guys in the second round would be good.

I want the best ILB available at #12 and probably the best TE available at #30.

I say again, we do NOT need a WR in the draft, absolutely not the first or second day. We also have no need for a D Lineman early in the draft.

We should go for a couple or three O Linemen from the 3rd round on, and I still want to see kicker drafted as a likely replacement for Crosby.

I think White or Bush will be there at 12. I don't think either one of them is worth the 12th pick, but I pretty much guarantee neither will be there at 30, and I can't put my finger on it where they will go if they don't go at 12. White will probably be off the board before the Packers pick, and Bush will likely go in the top twenty. They are the only two that are worth a first round pick. A few weeks ago Bush probably could have been had at 30 but his stock has gone through the roof.

I am not saying we need a pass rusher or edge player, but the front end of this draft is pretty deep with them. I think there are better players than Allen, but he is the only true 3-4 outside linebacker worthy of a first round pick. The Packers got crazy and signed two free agents at the position, and a safety. Which leads me to believe that they have to look at inside linebacker, offensive line, and they still have a hole at safety.

My best guess at the position of needs for the Packers
1. ILB - Martinez is the only guy you have any confidence in. He is a decent fit in this defense but I think he was exposed when he didn't have an NFL caliber inside linebacker next to him. The Packers have to really consider going after the top 3 guys in the upcoming draft.

2. Offensive line - The right side of the line is a huge question mark for the Packers. They got some help in free agency with Billy Turner. Not sure exactly if he fits in at guard or tackle, but he is a needed addition. The Packers also got some good news with Cole Madison reporting to mini camp. Again not sure exactly what he brings to the table as he was a late round selection last year and has missed a year of football. The Packers could look to draft a right tackle early, with the idea that Bulaga's knees will not hold up and they have someone they can slide in to fill the void he left. They could draft interior linemen to compete at guard with Turner, Taylor, and Patrick.

3. Safety - Signing Amos was a huge addition to the secondary. That leaves one safety spot unfilled. Josh Jones has been a big disappointment and cannot be relied on as a starter, Williams is 52 years old and who knows if he is going to make the full time switch to safety and if it will be worth anyone's time. Josh Jackson was exposed athletically last year and he might have to make the switch to safety. Regardless their is a hole at the position that could be filled in the draft.

4. TE - For 2019 the Packers decided to resign or keep veterans at the position. The Packers could be using them as a safety net and could look to draft a tight end of the future. This draft has a solid top three, but there is depth to this draft at the tight end position

5. Defensive Line - The Packers have two reliable defensive linemen right now in Daniels and Clark. Both are above average NFL caliber defensive linemen. Dean Lowery is a solid if unspectacular rotational piece, and Adams has yet to demonstrate that he can be counted on. Then there are a bunch of camp bodies behind those four guys. There are two dynamic interior linemen at the front end of this draft and then 3 or 4 first round caliber talents and then it slides off a cliff in terms of talent in this draft. Regardless how many linemen are used on the field the Packers need more than 2 proven guys for their rotation.

[Deputy Nutz]

....

[texaspackerbacker]

Excellent Post, Nutz.

I hope you mean crazy in a good way regarding the FAs edge rushers.

I think/hope we get one of the Devins at #12.

I've always been leery of taking an O Lineman early. So many times, college quality doesn't translate to the NFL. If they do, they better be damn careful. For the money they're paying Billy Turner, he ought to be at least a marginally decent starter. And there must be some reason they have been so patient with Madison. Hopefully somebody considers him a decent prospect.

I'd like to see us draft a Safety fairly early, but I haven't given up on Jones. Coaching ought to be able to fix the mental aspect, and physically, he should be a good player. I've been saying since early last season that Jackson should make a good Safety also.

And yeah, a TE would be for looking ahead, but with the FAs we signed, we can now afford to do that. I'm thinking they will take a flyer on somebody who is a project - not one of the Iowa guys - at #30.

Because of exactly the way you detail it, I don't think we need a D Lineman early in the draft. It usually takes a while for a D Lineman to reach his potential, and I still think Adams can be somewhere between decent and excellent. The only way we need somebody is if they deem Clark or Daniels or both as injury prone, and I kinda doubt they are.

And I STILL want a Kicker drafted maybe around the 5th round. Crosby gets paid too much and is not as consistent as an ideal Kicker ought to be.

[call_me_ishmael]

How great would it be if Gooter could pull of the same style of heist this year that he did last year. Move down effectively a few spots, gain a 1st round pick the next year.

[pbmax]

How great would it be if Gooter could pull of the same style of heist this year that he did last year. Move down effectively a few spots, gain a 1st round pick the next year.

To get the 30th pick this year, they moved down from 14 to 27. Do you really want to drop 13 spots to 25?

[Deputy Nutz]

I think we lost some value with that trade, although I don't think we lost any particular player that was drafted with the trade.

I think their is a lot of value in the second and third round in this draft. I wouldn't mind trading back to pick up another 3rd or 2nd round pick.

[bobblehead]

These kinds of posts are a breath of fresh air compared to the pervasive irrelevant shit that has been so prevalent lately.

Nutz, didn't we just deal with that need for an edge rusher with the Smith boys? Preston has demonstrated a decent ability to drop in coverage and should be an upgrade pass rusher from anything we've had since Clay was in his prime, and Za'Darius may not be much in coverage, but he should be one of the best pass rushers in the league. With those two book ends and Fackrell and Gilbert in the rotation, we should be as good or better than any team in the league at that position group - no need for more in the draft.

Allen didn't impress me much either in the limited amount I saw him.

We could still use another excellent Safety - I'm glad to read that this draft is heavy at that position. Getting one of those guys in the second round would be good.

I want the best ILB available at #12 and probably the best TE available at #30.

I say again, we do NOT need a WR in the draft, absolutely not the first or second day. We also have no need for a D Lineman early in the draft.

We should go for a couple or three O Linemen from the 3rd round on, and I still want to see kicker drafted as a likely replacement for Crosby.

This draft is loaded at certain positions. WR happens to be one of them. I would think its a certainty that we take a WR somewhere from 30-76. Do I have faith in the youngins? Sure, but you draft the talent where its available. I don't want to reach for an ILB if they rate out as a 4th round pick. The more I'm watching film the more I conclude that we will take a S/WR with 2 of first 4 picks. Hard to project what else is available at other picks, but its seems certain that BPA will be WR/S at 2 of them with S being a need anyway.

Edit: I also have moved Dillard right up to my top tackle in this draft. Wow, what footwork and agility.

[call_me_ishmael]

To get the 30th pick this year, they moved down from 14 to 27. Do you really want to drop 13 spots to 25?

Yeah but they dealt some other picks to trade back up. Does anyone think they lost that trade?

[pbmax]

Yeah but they dealt some other picks to trade back up. Does anyone think they lost that trade?

You can’t guarantee a trade back in to a spot, or if you try it can cost a premium. Maybe not last year but nothing is the same twice.

Where do you want to pick from?

[woodbuck27]

Aj brown too. Brown looks same as metcalf. Same team. Two 21 year olds looking like that.... suspicious!

https://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/aj-brown-dk-metcalf.jpg

WR Pospects or Male Strippers?

[woodbuck27]

Our best player is our QB and he needs a serious influx of talent (@ WR and TE) and an OL that will keep him on his feet.

[Fritz]

Okay, Woody, that's a good one.

[woodbuck27]

How great would it be if Gooter could pull of the same style of heist this year that he did last year. Move down effectively a few spots, gain a 1st round pick the next year.

I don't subscribe to quantity over quality given Aaron Rodgers remaining window.