First Round Pick 2019, Rashan Gary

[Bretsky]

For the forum controversy involving this pick alone and how it's flipped the pessimists into the optimists, the optimists into the pessimists, and those with balanced perspectives to one extreme or the other, I'm not sure I've ever anticipated watching a first round pick play as much as I am this one. I'm very interested to see who's right. Can't wait for the games to start.

Reminds me, I miss Christl's daily training camp run downs. Nobody has come close to his insight since he retired.



I'm one of the many who didn't want Gary coming to GB before the draft but I'm one of the few who has resisted the temptation to be a flipper either because Green Bay picked him or I shot off views w/o really doing any diligence on the guy. I have the same concerns before the draft as I have now.

I'll also go on record sincerely hoping the flippers are all right and he gets double digit sacks and I see him at several Pro Bowls.

This probably deserves a poll

For a 12th pick in the draft, statistically, how exactly will we measure success for our new Edge ??

[Radagast]

I'm one of the many who didn't want Gary coming to GB before the draft but I'm one of the few who has resisted the temptation to be a flipper either because Green Bay picked him or I shot off views w/o really doing any diligence on the guy. I have the same concerns before the draft as I have now.

I'll also go on record sincerely hoping the flippers are all right and he gets double digit sacks and I see him at several Pro Bowls.

This probably deserves a poll

For a 12th pick in the draft, statistically, how exactly will we measure success for our new Edge ??

I too am not happy with GB picking Rashan Gary. For me a first round pick that high in the draft should not be a "project" that will require possibly years to coach up. Physical strength/speed are great, but the NFL is loaded with fast/strong second and third team players. If he does produce, then great.

I see Gary as a Nick Perry 2.0 and we all know how he worked out.

[RashanGary]

Position coach presser on Packers.com .... coach Mike Smith has him rated as the best EDGE in the draft. Couldn’t believe they got him. Has never seen a player so big and fast. Consistently affected the QB.

Same thing I saw. Gary is a bully. He’s gonna fuck people up.

Was shocked to hear people say he didn’t like football. Said his stats didn’t tell the story. Same shit anyone who watches the tape says.

[Iron Mike]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/video/packers-olb-coach-mike-smith-on-top-pick-rashan-gary/

[MadScientist]

I too am not happy with GB picking Rashan Gary. For me a first round pick that high in the draft should not be a "project" that will require possibly years to coach up. Physical strength/speed are great, but the NFL is loaded with fast/strong second and third team players. If he does produce, then great.

I see Gary as a Nick Perry 2.0 and we all know how he worked out.

I'm also underwhelmed with this pick. The shoulder injury is what puts me off of him. Those things just don't heal well, and instead of getting it fixed, he went for the combine numbers and will play with a harness for a year. His numbers are impressive, but Al Davis proved in his later years, drafting numbers doesn't lead to results. I watched several games worth of tape and he showed promise in his junior year, but after the injury looked like a jag. Plays were run to the other side, but the ones to his side didn't result in him making the play. His pass rush looked like a TE was able to stone him. I really hope I'm totally off base here, but I'n not jumping on the Gary bandwagon for a while yet.

[Joemailman]

There sure is a disconnect between what a lot of people see in Gary and what the Packers scouts and coaches see in him. Mike Smith thinks he was the best OLB prospect in the draft. Smith, like Pettine, focuses more on getting consistent pressure than on numbers of sacks. They obviously think Gary will help a lot in terms of pressure. I do think Pettine will put Gary in better position to make plays than they did at Michigan. They won't be lining him up as a 6-tech the way Michigan did much of the time.

[red]

It's probably like "Attack of the 'Red' Clones"

i don' need clones, i spray my seed all over he place

[Bretsky]

Position coach presser on Packers.com .... coach Mike Smith has him rated as the best EDGE in the draft. Couldn’t believe they got him. Has never seen a player so big and fast. Consistently affected the QB.

Same thing I saw. Gary is a bully. He’s gonna fuck people up.

Was shocked to hear people say he didn’t like football. Said his stats didn’t tell the story. Same shit anyone who watches the tape says.


GOOD; THEN HE SHOULD HAVE 15 SACKS

[Bretsky]

There sure is a disconnect between what a lot of people see in Gary and what the Packers scouts and coaches see in him. Mike Smith thinks he was the best OLB prospect in the draft. Smith, like Pettine, focuses more on getting consistent pressure than on numbers of sacks. They obviously think Gary will help a lot in terms of pressure. I do think Pettine will put Gary in better position to make plays than they did at Michigan. They won't be lining him up as a 6-tech the way Michigan did much of the time.


I call BS

Sacks are the measurable

Let's stop making excuses and measure Gary on his production in the NFL

Petting likes sacks. If he's the top Edge in the draft he gets measured based on production and that means many many sacks

[wist43]

I call BS

Sacks are the measurable

Let's stop making excuses and measure Gary on his production in the NFL

Petting likes sacks. If he's the top Edge in the draft he gets measured based on production and that means many many sacks

I think Gary will put up big numbers if - IF - he develops an effective swim move, and a secondary inside counter.

Even without those polished techniques I can see him putting up good numbers, but it's much tougher to win against NFL Tackles without good technique. He needs to be coached up.

Have you watched his tape??

[Joemailman]

I call BS

Sacks are the measurable

Let's stop making excuses and measure Gary on his production in the NFL

Petting likes sacks. If he's the top Edge in the draft he gets measured based on production and that means many many sacks

Team sacks and pressure should be the measurable. The Packers were near the top of the NFL (8th overall) in sacks last year. Pressure not so much. I actually think Gary will get his sacks, because Pettine and Mike Smith will do a better job of utilizing his talents than Michigan did. But I could see the Packers being one of the top pass rushing teams in the NFL with nobody getting double-digit sacks. I'd be fine with that.

[mraynrand]

But I could see the Packers being one of the top pass rushing teams in the NFL with nobody getting double-digit sacks. I'd be fine with that.

If the defense is working as designed, this is probably what you'll see. I have a lot of confidence in Poutine - when he has had reasonable talent, he's pretty good.

[Bretsky]

Team sacks and pressure should be the measurable. The Packers were near the top of the NFL (8th overall) in sacks last year. Pressure not so much. I actually think Gary will get his sacks, because Pettine and Mike Smith will do a better job of utilizing his talents than Michigan did. But I could see the Packers being one of the top pass rushing teams in the NFL with nobody getting double-digit sacks. I'd be fine with that.


So Green Bay was 8th overall in sacks last year ? We got the "best" lol Edge Rusher in the draft. We also upgraded our safeties and outside LB's. That should move up a lot and Gary as the "best" edge rusher in the draft should have at least double digit sacks. And hopefully pressures drastically improve to.

BUT pressures should have drastically improved with the additions of Smith and Smith, right ??

So the only real measurable is sacks.

Unless we're using Michigan logic which would basically allow us to justify the draft pick forever.

[Bretsky]

I think Gary will put up big numbers if - IF - he develops an effective swim move, and a secondary inside counter.

Even without those polished techniques I can see him putting up good numbers, but it's much tougher to win against NFL Tackles without good technique. He needs to be coached up.

Have you watched his tape??


Plenty of it (and not just his good play highlights..; he's fine. Not a top 12 pick IMO but he's fine and he might be a good fit since he'll pair up with both of our high priced free agents. I just find humor on how nobody wanted him before the draft and now that GB picks him everybody immediately watches the highlight tape that was there before and then flips and finds excuses to love him.

Dude needs double digit sacks if he's the best edge rusher. Dude needs to bump Fackrell off the playing field. Dude needs to get to some Pro Bowls. I hope he does

[pbmax]

Team sacks and pressure should be the measurable. The Packers were near the top of the NFL (8th overall) in sacks last year. Pressure not so much. I actually think Gary will get his sacks, because Pettine and Mike Smith will do a better job of utilizing his talents than Michigan did. But I could see the Packers being one of the top pass rushing teams in the NFL with nobody getting double-digit sacks. I'd be fine with that.

I think this is probably very close to the truth. We spend a lot of time looking at sack numbers, but you also need to consider pressure AND should also consider a +/- component. Do players (Winovich for example) get better when you are on the field?

Should also consider any pressure that gets the QB to move a bonus. Possible that pressure stats already account for this.

[George Cumby]

4-6 dudes with 8 sacks each would be a good start. To a good defense or really bizarre porno is anyone's guess.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I for one will simply wait until he hits the field and see how he plays before going off the deep end one way or the other.

I know, I know, this is an internet forum and everyone's an expert based on NFL.com or other ratings of draft prospects, mock drafts and YouTube video highlights. But I'm not gonna do that.

This has been your rational break. Sponsored by the number 52 and the letter R.

[mraynrand]

I for one will simply wait until he hits the field and see how he plays before going off the deep end one way or the other.

I know, I know, this is an internet forum and everyone's an expert based on NFL.com or other ratings of draft prospects, mock drafts and YouTube video highlights. But I'm not gonna do that.

This has been your rational break. Sponsored by the number 52 and the letter R.

This is OK only if you promise to go off the deep end one way or the other at some point.

[Zool]

So Green Bay was 8th overall in sacks last year ? We got the "best" lol Edge Rusher in the draft. We also upgraded our safeties and outside LB's. That should move up a lot and Gary as the "best" edge rusher in the draft should have at least double digit sacks. And hopefully pressures drastically improve to.

BUT pressures should have drastically improved with the additions of Smith and Smith, right ??

So the only real measurable is sacks.

Unless we're using Michigan logic which would basically allow us to justify the draft pick forever.

Oakland probably got the best edge rusher in the draft.

[Zool]

I for one will simply wait until he hits the field and see how he plays before going off the deep end one way or the other.

I know, I know, this is an internet forum and everyone's an expert based on NFL.com or other ratings of draft prospects, mock drafts and YouTube video highlights. But I'm not gonna do that.

This has been your rational break. Sponsored by the number 52 and the letter R.


This post is ranked 7.42 on NFL.com.

[mraynrand]

This post is ranked 7.42 on NFL.com.

alert woodbuck

[RashanGary]

Gary is a brute and a beast down in and down out. I’m not surprised Mike Smith thinks so highly of him. Gary was a great college player for how he affected the game. The stats will show up on the next level. Different, more stat flattering assignments are about to come his way.

[RashanGary]

And this is a new era of fandom. Many people who choose to like or dislike a player don’t do it based on a highlight reel. We do it based on full game tapes. Gary is consistently powerful and impactful.

[mraynrand]

And this is a new era of fandom. Many people who choose to like or dislike a player don’t do it based on a highlight reel. We do it based on full game tapes. Gary is consistently powerful and impactful.

You could write his personal statement. Use 'virtuosity' too.

[run pMc]

I'm cool with JH driving the bandwagon. Gotta love the enthusiasm, as well as the different opinions and debate.
I don't think we'll really know until Year 2 regular season game, when his shoulder's been fixed and he's had a full year in the program. As a movable piece and a depth pick for now, sure, maybe.
I'd rather they develop the kid behind the Smiths vs. throw him out there as a starter and expect him to get 10 sacks.

[Bretsky]

I'm cool with JH driving the bandwagon. Gotta love the enthusiasm, as well as the different opinions and debate.
I don't think we'll really know until Year 2 regular season game, when his shoulder's been fixed and he's had a full year in the program. As a movable piece and a depth pick for now, sure, maybe.
I'd rather they develop the kid behind the Smiths vs. throw him out there as a starter and expect him to get 10 sacks.

Overhyped Tarzan with Jane like production in college. Best sources would be the Michigan fans who watched him the past four years imo. I hope Tarzan produces like Tarzan for green bay

[pbmax]

Overhyped Tarzan with Jane like production in college. Best sources would be the Michigan fans who watched him the past four years imo. I hope Tarzan produces like Tarzan for green bay

About the fans, sure. They saw week to week what we haven't seen. But Fritz isn't faultless in his breakdown and neither are their other fans.

We do know that the whimsically helmeted team had a great defense and recruits like Gary helped.

So do I yet believe he is a dominant All Pro type who will be a pass rushing savior? No. I don't think he is going to give you Lawrence Taylor bend and curl around the tackle and harass the QB every down. He's going to need more than one move.

But can he be a very good 3 position guy who can pressure the QB from multiple angles with speed and quickness? I think that is within his reach.

[Bretsky]

About the fans, sure. They saw week to week what we haven't seen. But Fritz isn't faultless in his breakdown and neither are their other fans.

We do know that the whimsically helmeted team had a great defense and recruits like Gary helped.

.



I went and read some of the Detroit Lions Fans reactions to the Gary pick and paid attention to the many who loved Michigan Football.

I bleed Cardinal and White. I was convinced Beigel could make it. I loved the Watt Brothers. I wanted GB to draft TJ Edwards, Ryan Connelly, and the hippy Badger LB as well as Dakota Dixon. There are very few Badgers I don't love (Jim Sorgi and Tolzien were exceptions).

It's not just Fritz; Michigan football fanatics who view their team like me all offer about the same insight. Great ability; gross underachiever. Not really what I was hoping for.

[Zool]

I went and read some of the Detroit Lions Fans reactions to the Gary pick and paid attention to the many who loved Michigan Football.

I bleed Cardinal and White. I was convinced Beigel could make it. I loved the Watt Brothers. I wanted GB to draft TJ Edwards, Ryan Connelly, and the hippy Badger LB as well as Dakota Dixon. There are very few Badgers I don't love (Jim Sorgi and Tolzien were exceptions).

It's not just Fritz; Michigan football fanatics who view their team like me all offer about the same insight. Great ability; gross underachiever. Not really what I was hoping for.

You literally explained why it’s folly to listen to fans take on players.

[pbmax]

You literally explained why it’s folly to listen to fans take on players.

I'll never forget local radio wondering how the pro coaches screwed up Kevin Stemke.

[bobblehead]

So Green Bay was 8th overall in sacks last year ? We got the "best" lol Edge Rusher in the draft. We also upgraded our safeties and outside LB's. That should move up a lot and Gary as the "best" edge rusher in the draft should have at least double digit sacks. And hopefully pressures drastically improve to.

BUT pressures should have drastically improved with the additions of Smith and Smith, right ??

So the only real measurable is sacks.

Unless we're using Michigan logic which would basically allow us to justify the draft pick forever.

I wanted Burns...I wanted a twitchy edge demon. But I also believe in metrics. Numbers can be misused, but straight up they don't lie. Gary is a mammoth compared to burns...yet just as athletic. If put in the right situations he will be very good. I have begun drinking the kool aid.

[bobblehead]

I too am not happy with GB picking Rashan Gary. For me a first round pick that high in the draft should not be a "project" that will require possibly years to coach up. Physical strength/speed are great, but the NFL is loaded with fast/strong second and third team players. If he does produce, then great.

I see Gary as a Nick Perry 2.0 and we all know how he worked out.

Gary played hurt and became the 12 pick. Perry grew a vagina and sat a lot. When healthy Perry worked out pretty well, but he was nowhere near the athlete that Gary is. If Gary is proportionally better/available in his athleticism/history compared to Perry we got a future all pro.

[bobblehead]

I call BS

Sacks are the measurable

Let's stop making excuses and measure Gary on his production in the NFL

Petting likes sacks. If he's the top Edge in the draft he gets measured based on production and that means many many sacks

Can we get crazy and measure BOTH? I mean if he gets a 3rd down pressure that causes a throw away is that a win?

[bobblehead]

Overhyped Tarzan with Jane like production in college. Best sources would be the Michigan fans who watched him the past four years imo. I hope Tarzan produces like Tarzan for green bay

Fans also told me Clay was a GREAT pass rusher. I saw different. Over the years my eyes proved to be a better source than "fans"

[RashanGary]

Fans also told me Clay was a GREAT pass rusher. I saw different. Over the years my eyes proved to be a better source than "fans"

He averaged 10 sacks per year for the first six years. He was a really good pass rusher for a minute. When he lost his burst, he lost his effectiveness. He’s also the all time Packer record holder for sacks so that’s something too. He’s also looking to finish in the top 50 all time in NFL sacks. So he’s been a pretty good pass rusher. Not quite HOF, but pro bowl pass rusher for a few good years there. Certainly not the greatest though. That is very true.

[red]

When he lost his burst, he lost his effectiveness.

NOOOO

actually and article came out saying he was a juicer

after the NFL became aware of this and started watching him, he became almost complete shit

i think its pretty clear where that burst came from, so because of that you almost have to put an * behind his name

[mraynrand]

NOOOO

actually and article came out saying he was a juicer

after the NFL became aware of this and started watching him, he became almost complete shit

i think its pretty clear where that burst came from, so because of that you almost have to put an * behind his name

Wonder how many other NFL Players are in this category.

[RashanGary]

NOOOO

actually and article came out saying he was a juicer

after the NFL became aware of this and started watching him, he became almost complete shit

i think its pretty clear where that burst came from, so because of that you almost have to put an * behind his name

Very true. But I don’t really care if they use steroids. I’m just happy to win.

But on a completely different note, Rashan Gary was an 18 year old phenom; bigger, faster, stronger than everyone else. The guy is today’s version of a bible thumping do-gooder. I’m gonna go ahead and bet mraynrands entire June salary that Gary’s freakism is all natural.

With that in mind, our thug is gonna be bitch slapping Vikings and Bears for years to come!

[pbmax]

Let me channel Tank and tell you that its easy to cook the books for PEDs. I don't buy the no juicing after Mike Neal's Excellent Adventure explanation. He didn't get smaller.

He is still quick and fast and he has never had a monster power move. People adjusted. Long before Neal's Adventure, McGinn wrote about how he didn't win one on one versus Tackles. Go watch the San Fran games. He torched Joe Staley once, and Staley stalemated him after that.

He had a motor and a great first step. He was not a prime edge guy like Von Miler. He was at least one tier below that at his best.

One new thing is that I have seen him give up on plays before he used to. I think he is just old.

[mraynrand]

^^^. All true. I think they covered for him in Seattle with the ‘concussion’. I think he ran out of steam. I’ve never liked him 1-on-1 versus the other team’s best tackle (LT). He has always been too easy to stone. As he loses his short quickness and stamina what’s left? Pistachio commercials I guess.

[pbmax]

Its kinda unfair to Matthews. He did all he could. He seems a good guy. But he had a reputation as a sack meister on a starting to fail defense. Nowhere to do but down.

Its not like he was a QB and could hold that off forever.

[run pMc]

Matthews had a very quick first step/burst that gave some tackles fits. He absolutely wrecked the Charles Leno/Jay Cutler Bears a couple of times, but yeah, once Raji and Jenkins weren't there he struggled because it's possible to neutralize one player. He showed more hustle when he was younger and seemed more explosive. I think he bulked up a little bit to take on 320 pound OTs and that -- plus hamstring injuries and age -- cost him the explosiveness that made him tough to defend.

I have nothing against Clay -- I think he played his guts out -- but he's not going to sniff 10 sacks again unless he is featured in a scheme as a DPR...which for a 30+ year old would be risky at best.

I get the sense that Gary is a different kind of player. The injuries and lack of production are concerns for me as previously noted, and I'm not on the bandwagon. I do think they could develop him into a good player, but I am skeptical he will be a bonafide playmaker that teams will have to account for and occasionally double like they did Clay. (Then again, I didn't see Clay turning into the player he did, so ???? ) Picking at #12 my expectation is they get a playmaker, and I'm not positive Gary is one. I hope I'm wrong.

Time will tell.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's believable that Gary is not a PED user - assuming he didn't start as early as high school. He was already a monster by the time he entered college. The kind you worry about are the guys who make a sudden leap forward in quality or size - it ain't always drug-aided, but certainly could be.

I don't know whether it was coaching, motivation, circumstances, or some combination that caused Gary to have less than super numbers in college. IMO, though, he is a chance worth taking, especially since we filled the edge rusher hole in free agency.

Besides, the Packers are long overdue to get lucky with a draft pick or several.

[red]

i don't think gary is a PED user, just a massive underachiever

which IMO is worse. at lest the PED guys are trying to get better

still, everything i read says he is at best a project. thats not what i wanted from our highest pick in a decade

[RashanGary]

i don't think gary is a PED user, just a massive underachiever

which IMO is worse. at lest the PED guys are trying to get better

still, everything i read says he is at best a project. thats not what i wanted from our highest pick in a decade

The way you phrase things is so blunt, it often makes me laugh my ass off. If you watch a full game tape though, you’ll see a guy achieving victories snap after snap. I’d call him an achiever and a great pick at 12.

[Teamcheez1]

i don't think gary is a PED user, just a massive underachiever

which IMO is worse. at lest the PED guys are trying to get better

still, everything i read says he is at best a project. thats not what i wanted from our highest pick in a decade

Gary may not ever be a great NFL player or could catch the injury bug. I sure hope not.
I'm not sure that I ever read him labeled as a project though by draft analysts.

[red]

Gary may not ever be a great NFL player or could catch the injury bug. I sure hope not.
I'm not sure that I ever read him labeled as a project though by draft analysts.

When a site says he has yet to live up to his potential, hat means he’s a project

When sites say “with the right coaching he could turn into a good player”, that’s a project

When a guy plays DE in college, and a lot of people think he would be better at DT, and we’re going to play him at OLB, that’s a project

[red]

one thing i absolutely can't stand when watching him in all the VS videos, ishow he doesn't play whistle to whistle. he gives up on almost every single play

if a teammate gets to the offensive player first, and wraps him up, gary will just pull up and stand there and watch as other teammates fly in to bring the guy down

he rarely seems to try and run guys down from behind. if he gets just one yard behind the play, he will pull up and start jogging

if you just watch his highlights you see a guy giving good effort, but if you watch the other 90-95% of his plays, you see a guy giving minimum effort, and giving up way too early

[wist43]

Good grief you guys are haters on this guy, lol...

I don't see a lack of hustle. My knocks on him are his need to develop better technique, and the ??? shoulder.

I'm like Bobble, I wanted Burns, i.e. to quote Bobble, "a twitchy edge demon". My thinking with Burns is that he will continue to fill out, and has a shot to be a beast.

Gary however, is a more complete player. Very stout at the point, and quick enough off the edge. Not as quick as Burns, but he's good. Gary has a chance to be a very good player.

[Bretsky]

Good grief you guys are haters on this guy, lol...

.


Ha; you started the revolt Benedict :)) I believe it went something like this; this guy will be out of the league in 3 years

There is no doubt the guy has talent; but the talent is way higher than the production. Many Michigan fans call him an underachiever. Packer fans did too...UNTIL we drafted him.

Now we call him somebody with great upside.

[wist43]

Ha; you started the revolt Benedict :)) I believe it went something like this; this guy will be out of the league in 3 years

There is no doubt the guy has talent; but the talent is way higher than the production. Many Michigan fans call him an underachiever. Packer fans did too...UNTIL we drafted him.

Now we call him somebody with great upside.

Lies of omission B :)

You know me, I'm no homer... if I think a guy is good, bad, or a JAG, I have no problem owning it.

That said, I admitted I hadn't done my homework on Gary. After doing my due diligence, I now stand corrected, and think he has a chance to be a very good player for us.

The other guy I can remember doing a quick 180 on was Greg Jennings. Didn't like the pick at all initially, but attended some practices in person and could see right away the guy had skills.

Still hate the Burks pick from last year, if that helps :)

[Bretsky]

Lies of omission B :)

You know me, I'm no homer... if I think a guy is good, bad, or a JAG, I have no problem owning it.

That said, I admitted I hadn't done my homework on Gary. After doing my due diligence, I now stand corrected, and think he has a chance to be a very good player for us.

The other guy I can remember doing a quick 180 on was Greg Jennings. Didn't like the pick at all initially, but attended some practices in person and could see right away the guy had skills.

Still hate the Burks pick from last year, if that helps :)


You may be becoming weaker wisty. You've been a bit of a Gootie Homer and that may be clouding your overall judgement...lol

On the draft, you nearly always due your due diligence well ahead of time, and when you do have a strong view you let it be known right away and stick to it...regardless of what some of the film we can all see....often positively bias'd film....shows. You were spot on with guys like Owen Burks and the Dick the Plodder as well as Thornton. I just can't buy in; the dude has incredible talent but simply lacks production to come close to the talent he has. Nobody will ever try to argue he was an overachiever. And you know me....I have a soft spot for producers....guy like Chris Borland. But I hope you are right. I hope this staff has the ability to pull Garys' best out of him and he becomes a 10 plus sack guys for multiple seasons.

I do really dig you as a poster and love giving you shit occasionally. And affectionately I'd like to patent a phrase in memory of this draft that I might use mutliple times over the next ten years if I don't kick off first.

To Change ones Viewpoint, or Flip your Position ===== Pull a Gary

[Bretsky]

The way you phrase things is so blunt, it often makes me laugh my ass off. If you watch a full game tape though, you’ll see a guy achieving victories snap after snap. I’d call him an achiever and a great pick at 12.



I would call every athlete who gets a college scholarship and graduates an achiever

I'd call Gary a superior athlete and beast whose measurables are better than his production up to this point.

I'd also say he has a chance to be a multi Pro Bowler if his Pro coaches, can bring out his best. His college coaches really didn't. .

[wist43]

You may be becoming weaker wisty. You've been a bit of a Gootie Homer and that may be clouding your overall judgement...lol

On the draft, you nearly always due your due diligence well ahead of time, and when you do have a strong view you let it be known right away and stick to it...regardless of what some of the film we can all see....often positively bias'd film....shows. You were spot on with guys like Owen Burks and the Dick the Plodder as well as Thornton. I just can't buy in; the dude has incredible talent but simply lacks production to come close to the talent he has. Nobody will ever try to argue he was an overachiever. And you know me....I have a soft spot for producers....guy like Chris Borland. But I hope you are right. I hope this staff has the ability to pull Garys' best out of him and he becomes a 10 plus sack guys for multiple seasons.

I do really dig you as a poster and love giving you shit occasionally. And affectionately I'd like to patent a phrase in memory of this draft that I might use mutliple times over the next ten years if I don't kick off first.

To Change ones Viewpoint, or Flip your Position ===== Pull a Gary

Not a "gootie homer", lol...

Long story short, I'm a much happier Packer camper these days. Gute has made the moves I've been calling for. I tend to focus on defense, and this offseason specifically identified PSmith and Amos on my wishlist; and, had Barrett penciled in for the other signing b/c I thought ZSmith would be too expensive, but Gute managed to make the cap numbers work - so?? I'm a happy camper :)

Like the dog chasing the car and finally catching it - now what do I do?? lol.

[Iron Mike]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/29/rashan-gary-raven-greene-show-off-versatility-for-packers-defense/

[mraynrand]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/29/rashan-gary-raven-greene-show-off-versatility-for-packers-defense/

Greene, an undrafted safety who made the roster in 2018, surprised by playing some snaps as a hybrid linebacker Wednesday. It’s a spot in the defense previously occupied by Morgan Burnett, Josh Jones and Jermaine Whitehead, among others.

[RashanGary]

Andy Herman tweeted that Gary beat Bakh with speed today and then plowed through Turner. So nice start for him.

[mraynrand]

Andy Herman tweeted that Gary beat Bakh with speed today and then plowed through Turner. So nice start for him.

This just means Bacteria is in steep decline.

[Freak Out]

This just means Bacteria is in steep decline.

or was still drunk from the Bucks series.

[red]

Andy Herman tweeted that Gary beat Bakh with speed today and then plowed through Turner. So nice start for him.

Did he then pull up and watch others finish the play like he did in college?

[gbgary]

Did he then pull up and watch others finish the play like he did in college?

geesh. beat bakh and had a clear path for a sack. the red jersey stopped him.

[run pMc]

geesh. beat bakh and had a clear path for a sack. the red jersey stopped him.

Coach Mike Smith clearly bribed Bahk and Turner with Spotted Cow to boost Gary's confidence. :P

[RashanGary]

Rashan Gary 4-1 in one on one pass rush drills. For sure he beat Spriggs twice and Taylor once from 3t. Sounds like the guy I saw on tape. Can’t trust stats all of the time. The big 10 has a way of turning their best DL into run anchors. JJ Watt, Frank Clark and now Gary all looking like stud NFL pass rushers even tho they were run anchors who barely broke 5 sacks in the big 10.

[Upnorth]

Look, I want Gary to be a big, massive success but to put him in the same sentence as Watt, let alone compare the back ground.... I think the cart was on the road before the horse was even conceived on this statement JH.

[pbmax]

Look, I want Gary to be a big, massive success but to put him in the same sentence as Watt, let alone compare the back ground.... I think the cart was on the road before the horse was even conceived on this statement JH.

Also need to be careful with the glowing praise for B1G pass rushers. Watt is great, Frank Clark might be very good but you have a LOT of whiffs before you go back to Brandon Graham at Michigan as a clear pro monster. Also from Michigan.

[RashanGary]

Look, I want Gary to be a big, massive success but to put him in the same sentence as Watt, let alone compare the back ground.... I think the cart was on the road before the horse was even conceived on this statement JH.

It’s a comparison because they were big 10 run stuffers who weren’t supposed to be able to rush the passer based on lack of college production. Not saying Gary is as good as the HOFer but saying he’s a stud who’s college numbers didn’t tell the story.

[call_me_ishmael]

You clearly did not watch JJ Watt in college because he was an absolute beast his junior year and single handedly beat Ohio State living in the backfield. Okay, sure, David Gilreath running that opening kick back helped too.

Seriously - JJ Watt's junior year may not have had a ton of sacks, but let's not forget this is college ball and the big 10 in 2010ish at that. He was an absolute beast and the most dominant pass rusher I've ever seen in person. I remember against North Western to end that season when he had like 4 TFL and the whole stadium was chanting his name. It was incredible. We went to that good ass italian place with the mural outside after - f'n amazing meal too after a tremendous game.

That said, it's hard not to get excited about Gary and what we've seen so far. His numbers don't lie, and those numbers paired with his alleged work ethic will almost certainly lead to good things. It's way too early to compare him to an all-time great and first ballot HOFer, possibly best DL to ever play the game in Watt, but it's an encouraging start.

[pbmax]

Watt had 11.5 sacks in two years at Wisconsin and 36.5 TFL.

[run pMc]

If Gary turns out to be good, wow. It's very early, but the camp reports do provide some hope.

[Radagast]

Success for Gary and the Packers is a win/win situation. Let us all hope that it continues and he gets better.

The hard cold truth is that teams will study any/all video on him and will attack any weakness in his game. If he can overcome the strategies that will be used against him, then he may well be successful.

Don't allow yourselves to get over excited though, even JJ Watt and Khalil Mack are not 100% successful 100% of the time.

[gbgary]

so much is riding on him being a stud and being cheap for a few years. it goes for all the rookies and 2nd year players. hopefully those extensions and rodgers leaving coincides. too much overlap and there's going to be ridiculous trouble.

[mraynrand]

If he can overcome the strategies that will be used against him, then he may well be successful.

True for everyone since the beginning of time.

[pbmax]

True for everyone since the beginning of time.

Don't get me started on the old single-cell versus multicellular battles They continue unabated to this very day.

[pbmax]

so much is riding on him being a stud and being cheap for a few years. it goes for all the rookies and 2nd year players. hopefully those extensions and rodgers leaving coincides. too much overlap and there's going to be ridiculous trouble.

True, but its always true in general. You need good, cheap, young talent. Helps even more if its a QB, EDGE pass rusher or CB.

But you need to find savings somewhere to afford elite level talent. Much easier to be the Lions and spend elite money on being .500.

[texaspackerbacker]

so much is riding on him being a stud and being cheap for a few years. it goes for all the rookies and 2nd year players. hopefully those extensions and rodgers leaving coincides. too much overlap and there's going to be ridiculous trouble.

I disagree with this. Drafting Gary was more a sign of playing with house money after signing the Smiths. The great upgrade of the pass rush was already in place. If Gary turns out to be great, it will help down the road for sure, and it will be gravy right now too, but essential to success? That was addressed in free agency. Safety, of course, was also addressed. The O Line still seems lacking to me, but hopefully they know what they're doing by doing very little there. Everything else is pretty solid on this team - despite the negative stupidity of some.

Rodgers leaving? You've sunk to a new level of bullshit with that comment ...... or are you talking about 6 or 8 or 10 years from now?

[mraynrand]

Don't get me started on the old single-cell versus multicellular battles They continue unabated to this very day.

Prokaryotes have been around since the dawn of life! They will be victorious in the end! If Eukaryotes hadn't taken prokaryotes as slaves (mitochondria and chloroplasts), they wouldn't even be alive! Prokaryotes rule, eukaryotes drool!

[pbmax]

Prokaryotes have been around since the dawn of life! They will be victorious in the end! If Eukaryotes hadn't taken prokaryotes as slaves (mitochondria and chloroplasts), they wouldn't even be alive! Prokaryotes rule, eukaryotes drool!

There are a LOT of mitochondria T-shirts but none that protest the mitochondria's confused rights standing.

[mraynrand]

There are a LOT of mitochondria T-shirts but none that protest the mitochondria's confused rights standing.

Mitochondria are the Tom Joads of microorganisms. Chloroplasts are the Boxers - they will work harder.

[run pMc]

Rodgers leaving? You've sunk to a new level of bullshit with that comment ...... or are you talking about 6 or 8 or 10 years from now?

You know Aaron Rodgers turns 36 in December, right? Favre retired at 41; if Rodgers plays that long he'll need luck and health (and a good OL).

[run pMc]

I'm not ready to eat crow and jump on the bandwagon yet re: Gary.
I didn't like the pick at the time but if I'm wrong about him I'll be happy to admit it.

[mraynrand]

You know Aaron Rodgers turns 36 in December, right? Favre retired at 41; if Rodgers plays that long he'll need luck and health (and a good OL).

Another couple of years and the NFL will be electronic touch football. Rodgers will play til he’s 48.

[texaspackerbacker]

You know Aaron Rodgers turns 36 in December, right? Favre retired at 41; if Rodgers plays that long he'll need luck and health (and a good OL).

I don't know about electronic touch, but rule changes absolutely make it possible for QBs to hang around longer. Is there any reason why Rodgers would quit at a younger age than Brady for example? I think he even said he expects to play into his forties. I stand by the 6 or 8 or 10 years as very realistic.

Luck, Yes; Health, Yes; A good O Line? Arguably he's never really had that, and he's done pretty damn well so far.

[pbmax]

I don't know about electronic touch, but rule changes absolutely make it possible for QBs to hang around longer. Is there any reason why Rodgers would quit at a younger age than Brady for example? I think he even said he expects to play into his forties. I stand by the 6 or 8 or 10 years as very realistic.

Luck, Yes; Health, Yes; A good O Line? Arguably he's never really had that, and he's done pretty damn well so far.

Multiple left knee injuries.

[texaspackerbacker]

Multiple?

Aaron Rodgers Injury History
Date League Injury Details
Dec 30, 2018 NFL Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers departed in the 2nd quarter and never returned.
Sep 9, 2018 NFL Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2 Rodgers was carted off but later returned vs. Chicago. He dealt with a sprain and a bone bruise for most of the season.
Oct 15, 2017 NFL Shoulder Clavicle Fracture Rodgers returned for 1 game before sitting out the final 2 weeks.
Dec 11, 2016 NFL Leg Calf Strain Rodgers' injury wasn't considered serious.
Dec 21, 2014 NFL Leg Calf Tear Rodgers reportedly had a "slight" tear in his calf.
Nov 4, 2013 NFL Shoulder Clavicle Fracture Rodgers' injury forced him to miss the next 7 games.
Dec 12, 2010 NFL Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers missed 1 game with his 2nd concussion of 2010.
Oct 10, 2010 NFL Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers didn't miss a game following his Week 5 concussion.
Nov 19, 2006 NFL Pedal Foot Fracture Rodgers was placed on IR after suffering a foot fracture.

I was there for the one and ONLY knee injury on that list - and the great comeback in the second half - after the injury.

[bobblehead]

Look, I want Gary to be a big, massive success but to put him in the same sentence as Watt, let alone compare the back ground.... I think the cart was on the road before the horse was even conceived on this statement JH.

Agree. Gary is a much better athlete than Watt.

[call_me_ishmael]

Agree. Gary is a much better athlete than Watt.

That's a flaming hot take. Normally your football opinions are pretty good. I'm surprised by this one. Watt was pretty freaky deaky at the combine my man.

[pbmax]

Multiple?

Aaron Rodgers Injury History
Date League Injury Details
Dec 30, 2018 NFL Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers departed in the 2nd quarter and never returned.
Sep 9, 2018 NFL Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2 Rodgers was carted off but later returned vs. Chicago. He dealt with a sprain and a bone bruise for most of the season.
Oct 15, 2017 NFL Shoulder Clavicle Fracture Rodgers returned for 1 game before sitting out the final 2 weeks.
Dec 11, 2016 NFL Leg Calf Strain Rodgers' injury wasn't considered serious.
Dec 21, 2014 NFL Leg Calf Tear Rodgers reportedly had a "slight" tear in his calf.
Nov 4, 2013 NFL Shoulder Clavicle Fracture Rodgers' injury forced him to miss the next 7 games.
Dec 12, 2010 NFL Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers missed 1 game with his 2nd concussion of 2010.
Oct 10, 2010 NFL Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Rodgers didn't miss a game following his Week 5 concussion.
Nov 19, 2006 NFL Pedal Foot Fracture Rodgers was placed on IR after suffering a foot fracture.

I was there for the one and ONLY knee injury on that list - and the great comeback in the second half - after the injury.


I don't have a single definitive source on this but this is what I remember (we are talking about the left leg, not the plant leg):

1. Torn ACL in high school, had ACL surgery in college (https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/31056/thanks-to-a-fast-sob-and-his-donated-acl-aaron-rodgers-says-he-got-faster-post-surgery)
1a. He played for 3 years on it, at least one without a brace.
2. At least 2 clean up surgeries to clean same knee as pro (2015 https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25924014/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-avoids-surgery-left-knee)
3. MCL sprain in 2018

Rodgers has said the cleanup removed a lot of lingering issues with the knee. But now the 2018 MCL has happened. We'll see if there is any lingering affect now.

[pbmax]

Here is the summary of what has been publicly reported.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/09/12/knee-injury-leaves-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-status-question/1279504002/

[Upnorth]

My understanding (at least what my physio in the military told me) with MCL recovery is that it is a time thing. ACL typically will need surgery, but MCL's can come back with time and correct rehab. Depending on the severity 1 year should do it, however he had to push it every week last year so the continuous over use would extend recovery time. I don't think it was a major injury or he would have had to sit.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wasn't aware of the high school and college ACL stuff. As long ago as that is, and as mobile as he has always been, though, I really doubt that ACL thing is still a factor at all.

As for the MCL, playing with the injury probably accounts in large part for the subpar season he had - all the more reason to expect great things this season and for a lot of seasons to come.

[pbmax]

I wasn't aware of the high school and college ACL stuff. As long ago as that is, and as mobile as he has always been, though, I really doubt that ACL thing is still a factor at all.

As for the MCL, playing with the injury probably accounts in large part for the subpar season he had - all the more reason to expect great things this season and for a lot of seasons to come.

That HS injury and subsequent surgery were bothering him up until the cleanup procedure in 2016 And his mobility seems lessened in these last few years. He gets tackled from behind a lot more.

The MCL was damage to the same knee. I don't know of any way to wrench your knee that doesn't affect all parts of the knee. The simple wear and tear can make that knee worse without being an identified new injury.

[Radagast]

I wasn't aware of the high school and college ACL stuff. As long ago as that is, and as mobile as he has always been, though, I really doubt that ACL thing is still a factor at all.

As for the MCL, playing with the injury probably accounts in large part for the subpar season he had - all the more reason to expect great things this season and for a lot of seasons to come.


Tex, at your age you should well know that some injuries incurred in our youth, remain with us for the rest of our lives. They can result in knee or hip replacement, arthritis, and more. As mentally tough as Rodgers is, the pain and medical treatments that we don't see or hear about are a regular part of his life and most likely will remain so long after his football career ends. His medical file must be as thick as a copy of "War and Peace".

When I think about what some players sacrificed for the game it's frightening. Jim Otto (both hips replaced), Joe Namath (both knees replaced), and the list goes on and on. Rodgers may well suffer every remaining day of his life because he is willing to sacrifice his body to be the best. I salute him for his courage and his mental discipline.

R.Gary is beginning his time in the NFL. He looks fearless and aggressive, but how will he be feeling in mid December when all of the hits and collisions have begun to take their toll. Will it make him tougher or beat him down?

[Fritz]

True, but its always true in general. You need good, cheap, young talent. Helps even more if its a QB, EDGE pass rusher or CB.

But you need to find savings somewhere to afford elite level talent. Much easier to be the Lions and spend elite money on being .500.

You're being very generous to the Lions, PB. They were about a .500 team under Caldwell, which for them represented dizzying heights of success.

[pbmax]

You're being very generous to the Lions, PB. They were about a .500 team under Caldwell, which for them represented dizzying heights of success.

Clearly. It seems to have imparted madness to them now.

[call_me_ishmael]

It is *really* hard not to be encouraged by Gary's start. I don't think you could ask for higher praise of a rookie a few days in.

[pbmax]

It is *really* hard not to be encouraged by Gary's start. I don't think you could ask for higher praise of a rookie a few days in.

You know this site better than this. Here is Pettine's quote, tell me this doesn't say: will play most D snaps on bench as part of rotation.


"He’s been solid. You can tell football is really important to him. He doesn’t want to just be good, he wants to be great. He’s soaking it up. He has a lot to learn from a mental standpoint and technique-wise, but Coach (LaFleur) mentioned it yesterday, the one thing you love about him is his effort. Sometimes we have to slow him down in the walk-thru. He’s a guy with a great motor. We tell the guys we want to coach you how to play not how hard to play, and the effort is there every play."

You know who else had a great motor? Mike Daniels. AJ Hawk. Brady Poppinga. Atari Bigly. Mike Montgomery. KGB.

[Joemailman]

You know this site better than this. Here is Pettine's quote, tell me this doesn't say: will play most D snaps on bench as part of rotation.



You know who else had a great motor? Mike Daniels. AJ Hawk. Brady Poppinga. Atari Bigly. Mike Montgomery. KGB.

2 things about the great motor comment. When you combine that with freakish athleticism, you could have a guy with off the charts potential. None of the guys you mentioned, with the possible exception of early A.J. Hawk had that. Also, Pettine and LaFleur may have been contrasting how they feel about Gary's motor with what some of the scouting reports were saying.

[call_me_ishmael]

Exactly. I tend to agree with Joe here. We knew this dude had talent, and when I hear how hard he works and how strong his motor is, those are strong indicators when matched with his athleticism that they'll have a player on their hands.

[Freak Out]

AJ? Am I forgetting something about Hawk?

[Smidgeon]

AJ? Am I forgetting something about Hawk?

His combine workout was exceptional. Except for one or two spots, he tested just as good as Matthews. Based on his combine, he should have been the freakish athlete, but for him it never transferred to the NFL. Thinking too much, being too "reliable", etc. Who knows.

[Cheesehead Craig]

His combine workout was exceptional. Except for one or two spots, he tested just as good as Matthews. Based on his combine, he should have been the freakish athlete, but for him it never transferred to the NFL. Thinking too much, being too "reliable", etc. Who knows.

Or it was the Mike Mamula Syndrome. Where players just train for the "test" of combine day and then when they do awesome and inflate their draft stock, but once they hit the field, their good grade on the test doesn't match what they do on the field.

[RashanGary]

.

[pbmax]

2 things about the great motor comment. When you combine that with freakish athleticism, you could have a guy with off the charts potential. None of the guys you mentioned, with the possible exception of early A.J. Hawk had that. Also, Pettine and LaFleur may have been contrasting how they feel about Gary's motor with what some of the scouting reports were saying.

Fair point, I forgot the motor critique. But still kinda odd because that wasn't the critique that stuck (I only read it in a few places). The critique that stuck out was workout warrior/athlete or non-production in sacks.

I still say this is coaching boilerplate and we haven't yet crosse the line into "will receive loads of playing time" yet.

[pbmax]

Hawk was exceptionally athletic for a big (at the time) WILL linebacker) and he had speed. But that speed never survived either that early career injury or his move to ILB in a 3-4.

[George Cumby]

Hawk was as explosive as fuck when he came in. His rookie year was really good.

The off season between his rookie and second season fucked him up somehow and slowed him down.

[gbgary]

I disagree with this. Drafting Gary was more a sign of playing with house money after signing the Smiths. The great upgrade of the pass rush was already in place. If Gary turns out to be great, it will help down the road for sure, and it will be gravy right now too, but essential to success? That was addressed in free agency. Safety, of course, was also addressed. The O Line still seems lacking to me, but hopefully they know what they're doing by doing very little there. Everything else is pretty solid on this team - despite the negative stupidity of some.

Rodgers leaving? You've sunk to a new level of bullshit with that comment ...... or are you talking about 6 or 8 or 10 years from now?

there's a good chance one or both of the smiths will be gone after 3 seasons here (if not before) due to cap reasons. if gary's a stud right away it will facilitate that and save them a ton...and that would be great. they're going to need every penny they can scrape up.
as for rodgers he'll be 36 in dec., his cap hit in 2022 is 37m, he'll be 39 then, his QBR has gone down 3 years in a row, he's become prone to injury. i don't see him signing another contract here. if he does it better be a team friendly one this time because the last one closed the window on any super bowl thoughts.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, at your age you should well know that some injuries incurred in our youth, remain with us for the rest of our lives. They can result in knee or hip replacement, arthritis, and more. As mentally tough as Rodgers is, the pain and medical treatments that we don't see or hear about are a regular part of his life and most likely will remain so long after his football career ends. His medical file must be as thick as a copy of "War and Peace".

When I think about what some players sacrificed for the game it's frightening. Jim Otto (both hips replaced), Joe Namath (both knees replaced), and the list goes on and on. Rodgers may well suffer every remaining day of his life because he is willing to sacrifice his body to be the best. I salute him for his courage and his mental discipline.

R.Gary is beginning his time in the NFL. He looks fearless and aggressive, but how will he be feeling in mid December when all of the hits and collisions have begun to take their toll. Will it make him tougher or beat him down?

And maybe it's much ado about nothing also - the residual effects. None of us has direct knowledge, and his performance other than the immediate effects of last year's MCL don't appear to have diminished. As for that "rest of your life stuff", yeah, that's what they say, but at my age and in my observation, it's not a sure thing at all.

Back on topic, yes, we sure seem to have drafted a good one - athleticism, work ethic ....... the third leg of the stool is football instinct. Hopefully he has it or will develop it fairly quickly. I haven't heard much one way or the other about that so far, though.

[texaspackerbacker]

there's a good chance one or both of the smiths will be gone after 3 seasons here (if not before) due to cap reasons. if gary's a stud right away it will facilitate that and save them a ton...and that would be great. they're going to need every penny they can scrape up.
as for rodgers he'll be 36 in dec., his cap hit in 2022 is 37m, he'll be 39 then, his QBR has gone down 3 years in a row, he's become prone to injury. i don't see him signing another contract here. if he does it better be a team friendly one this time.

What you're doing - to put it charitably - is called "static analysis". The cap won't be a problem. It increases; It can be managed; If the Smiths merit being kept long term, they will be kept, regardless of how Gary develops. They all play a position of extreme importance - you can never have too many good pass rushers, just like they say about Corners.

New contract for Rodgers? Maybe not; Extensions, maybe more than one? Hell yeah - he will be worth it for sure, and that's one very good way to manage the salary cap.

[MadScientist]

What you're doing - to put it charitably - is called "static analysis". The cap won't be a problem. It increases; It can be managed; If the Smiths merit being kept long term, they will be kept, regardless of how Gary develops. They all play a position of extreme importance - you can never have too many good pass rushers, just like they say about Corners.

New contract for Rodgers? Maybe not; Extensions, maybe more than one? Hell yeah - he will be worth it for sure, and that's one very good way to manage the salary cap.

There's a good chance that one or both of the Smiths will not warrant a new contract. They'll be pushing 30, and the wear and tear for the positions they play is pretty high. Just look at how fast Clay declined. Either they will be over-paid for by someone else, or they will have to take a smaller contract, or they will be done.

As for Rodgers, his contract takes him through age 40, and he's said before that's how long he wants to play. He may change his mind, but the Packers will need to be prepared for the post Rodgers era.

But you are right that the cap won't be the problem, performance will be.

[gbgary]

What you're doing - to put it charitably - is called "static analysis". The cap won't be a problem. It increases; It can be managed; If the Smiths merit being kept long term, they will be kept, regardless of how Gary develops. They all play a position of extreme importance - you can never have too many good pass rushers, just like they say about Corners.

New contract for Rodgers? Maybe not; Extensions, maybe more than one? Hell yeah - he will be worth it for sure, and that's one very good way to manage the salary cap.

an extension is a new contract...and another one with a cap % over 13% would be insane for someone that age. brady last year was 12.4%. and yes the cap can be managed...by cutting high $ talent, signing cheap guys just to get by. you know...stuff the Packers have been doing for a few years until recently.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ok, an extension is a new contract hahahahaha. Assuming you got the cap number right also, that $37 million is a lot against the cap. Likely, one of two things will happen; Either his skills will have deteriorated to where it makes sense to cut him, or he will get extended to make the cap number more tolerable. I strongly expect the latter rather than the former. It happened with Favre; It happens with a lot of people. THAT is how you manage the cap - NOT cutting quality players. Did you see the Patriots do that? Hell No.

"signing cheap guys just to get by" was the Ted Thompson way. I hated that. A lot of people did. It failed to maximize having the GOAT QB - until now anyway. The Gutekunst way obviously is different. Some media pukes as well as some negativists in here don't seem to properly appreciate that. This WILL be an excellent, I would say Super year for the Packers - barring injury to Aaron Rodgers, of course. The defense will be extremely better, and the offense will look a lot like it has looked for most of the last decade - Aaron Rodgers doing what he does better than anybody ever has done with improved pass patterns and a few well designed run plays for change of pace, of course. Mark my words, that's what it's gonna be and how it's gonna be.

[bobblehead]

That's a flaming hot take. Normally your football opinions are pretty good. I'm surprised by this one. Watt was pretty freaky deaky at the combine my man.

I was half being sarcastic, but Gary actually is a better athlete. That doesn't mean that he will be anywhere near Watt as a player. I dream he is, but its a longshot by any measure.

[RashanGary]

I was half being sarcastic, but Gary actually is a better athlete. That doesn't mean that he will be anywhere near Watt as a player. I dream he is, but its a longshot by any measure.

No draft pick will ever be expected or predicted to be a HOF player because it’s so rare.

But, Gary is a freak like Watt and dropped in the draft due to low pass rush production like watt. And played his college ball in the run first big 10 like Watt. I’ve brought Watt up to show people that lack of pass rushing production in the big 10 doesn’t predict NFL effectiveness. Gary is a freak, in some ways more so than Watt and in others less so. But similar level freak athlete. So now it’s seeing how he adapts to the NFL. He does have HOF athleticism and it’s starting to look like he has HOF work ethic. Time will tell if he can develop HOF savvy and stay healthy. HOF is a long shot for any player, but Gary does seem to have some of that makeup. And there are enough commonalities with their athleticism and background to talk about how freak athletes are sometimes used differently in the big 10.

[pbmax]

there's a good chance one or both of the smiths will be gone after 3 seasons here (if not before) due to cap reasons. if gary's a stud right away it will facilitate that and save them a ton...and that would be great. they're going to need every penny they can scrape up.
as for rodgers he'll be 36 in dec., his cap hit in 2022 is 37m, he'll be 39 then, his QBR has gone down 3 years in a row, he's become prone to injury. i don't see him signing another contract here. if he does it better be a team friendly one this time because the last one closed the window on any super bowl thoughts.

The PackerRat Salary Cap Worry Index

1 Tank
2 Bretsky
4 Tex
5 Joemailman
6 Patler
8 pbmax
100 gbGary

:lol:

The cap isn't going to get this team, but the work stoppage might.

[pbmax]

You're being very generous to the Lions, PB. They were about a .500 team under Caldwell, which for them represented dizzying heights of success.

Maybe we underestimate the skill it takes to spend that much money and still be bad.

[pbmax]

an extension is a new contract...and another one with a cap % over 13% would be insane for someone that age. brady last year was 12.4%. and yes the cap can be managed...by cutting high $ talent, signing cheap guys just to get by. you know...stuff the Packers have been doing for a few years until recently.

That was how Ted operated, it wasn't QB salary dependent. There was a big exception as well; he was signing big FAs in 2009 after giving Rodgers a pay increase for being the starter.

And the QB payroll for the Packers are 7th in the League in percentage of cap spent. Behind the Vikings, Lions, Redskins, Patriots, Giants and the Chargers. The Saints at in 8th by .19 percentage points. Its not causing unheard of problems.

I will say that the Patriots might have a better backup QB for their money than the Packers do. And the Saints, of course, are led by the magnificence of Taysom Hill, the Special Team QB.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/quarterback/

[Zool]

Teddy gets no love?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IzgUGZ4nVw

[run pMc]

Gary will not be a starter unless injuries strike. I also think having a high motor is nice, but not necessarily something that will translate to snaps on the field (except maybe for ST's).
I also suspect his shoulder will probably prevent him from playing a high number of snaps and making it through the season.

The college stats say JJ Watt had better production than Gary, although I agree Gary tested off the charts. Running a 40 faster than some safeties/CBs is very impressive for a man that big.

I'm hoping the early hype is legit though. I like the idea of Pettine having a player like Gary that he can move around and scheme free.

[call_me_ishmael]

I was half being sarcastic, but Gary actually is a better athlete. That doesn't mean that he will be anywhere near Watt as a player. I dream he is, but its a longshot by any measure.

Better athlete, maybe, but not a "much better athlete". They're in the same hemisphere of elite athletic traits. Agree on the rest. I am optimistic he's gonna be a really good player though.

[texaspackerbacker]

The PackerRat Salary Cap Worry Index

1 Tank
2 Bretsky
4 Tex
5 Joemailman
6 Patler
8 pbmax
100 gbGary

:lol:

The cap isn't going to get this team, but the work stoppage might.

You mean I get paid too much for my posting? Gosh, Madtown must have sent the checks to the wrong address.

[pbmax]

You mean I get paid too much for my posting? Gosh, Madtown must have sent the checks to the wrong address.

For salary cap purposes, your job is to worry about people spending their own money.

[call_me_ishmael]

Man, everyday another great detail about this kid comes out. Bugging Z Smith on the weekend day off to watch film together? Those two being on one another hip throughout practice talking technique? I early signs are very encouraging. I really like the steps he is taking to be the best player he can be.

[call_me_ishmael]

Honestly, with how short NFL careers are and with his chance to earn 20Mnin four years if he becomes a stud, I totally get it and I hope he becomes the highest paid defender in the league. Would be amazing. Get it, 52!

[RashanGary]

Man, everyday another great detail about this kid comes out. Bugging Z Smith on the weekend day off to watch film together? Those two being on one another hip throughout practice talking technique? I early signs are very encouraging. I really like the steps he is taking to be the best player he can be.

He’s in an ideal situation. Z, Preston and Fackrell all experienced. Gary is gonna get some really fresh and rested pass rush reps in 2019. He’s already one of the most physically gifted edge players in the NFL. That should only be amplified with him being rested and a situational player. I can foresee Gary overwhelming other teams as a pass rusher. Just straight dominance, in part because he’s being loaded up just right and in the perfect situation for his skillset.

[RashanGary]

This is a true story. I had a dream last night where the Packer forum people and Gute and his staff were eating lunch in a school cafeteria. A Michigan game was being played and Gute was watching. I went up to Gute and described how I’ve seen Gary dominate with speed, outside/inside club, straight bull rush and an inside one arm stab and drive. I said, Gute, am I right, this guy is a dominant NFL force right out of the gate. And Gute looked at me as if to say yes but then said, I can’t say anything, I don’t want quotes in the paper. And then I went back to our table knowing that I am right.

[mraynrand]

This is a true story. I had a dream last night where the Packer forum people and Gute and his staff were eating lunch in a school cafeteria. A Michigan game was being played and Gute was watching. I went up to Gute and described how I’ve seen Gary dominate with speed, outside/inside club, straight bull rush and an inside one arm stab and drive. I said, Gute, am I right, this guy is a dominant NFL force right out of the gate. And Gute looked at me as if to say yes but then said, I can’t say anything, I don’t want quotes in the paper. And then I went back to our table knowing that I am right.

This is a true story. I had a dream I was having sex with Jennifer Connelly, and she was a totally dreadful lover. Hollywood always lets me down.

[George Cumby]

This is a true story. I had a dream I was having sex with Jennifer Connelly, and she was a totally dreadful lover. Hollywood always lets me down.

This is a true story. I had a dream last night and.... aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh fukkit, I'm too tired to think of anything ridiculous.

[Radagast]

Preseason !

2nd Quarter !

1st draft pick and monster physical specimen Rashan Gary was OUT OF GAS ?


"What the hell's going on out here." Vince Lombardi


:pack:

[Sparkey]

So, everyone, what is a good sack number for Gary as a rookie ? Three ? Six ? Twenty ?

I personally think even putting a number for anything on a rookie is foolishness. I mean, I am reading 8.5, 10 or he is a bust etc.,

To add some perspective, the guy considered the best pass rushing lb in the NFL, Khalil Mack, had 4 sacks as a rookie.
His career sack numbers are: 4, 15, 11, 10.5, 12.5

[Zool]

Pressures plus sacks should be the measure. If sacks were all that mattered, Fackrell should be paid the same as Mack.

[mraynrand]

We won't need a sack number to know if he's effective

[gbgary]

well...from what i saw of his very first game, surrounded by a bunch of backups, they ran away from his side most of the time, as there was no one of consequence on the other side, and he was doubled teamed a lot. other teams won't have that luxury when he's in there with the number 1's.

[hoosier]

Pressures plus sacks should be the measure. If sacks were all that mattered, Fackrell should be paid the same as Mack.

x(Sacks) + y(Pressures) + z(Avg. blockers occupied)

[wist43]

Preseason !

2nd Quarter !

1st draft pick and monster physical specimen Rashan Gary was OUT OF GAS ?


"What the hell's going on out here." Vince Lombardi


:pack:

Yeah, he did not look good at all. :roll:

[Fritz]

So, everyone, what is a good sack number for Gary as a rookie ? Three ? Six ? Twenty ?

I personally think even putting a number for anything on a rookie is foolishness. I mean, I am reading 8.5, 10 or he is a bust etc.,

To add some perspective, the guy considered the best pass rushing lb in the NFL, Khalil Mack, had 4 sacks as a rookie.
His career sack numbers are: 4, 15, 11, 10.5, 12.5

Get ready to see a lot if Gary on your TV screen. I'm not sure how many sacks he'll get, but I'm confident he'll lead the league in running up to the pile j-u-s-t after his teammates make the tackle. He shows up in the picture quite often, once the play has been made.

[RashanGary]

OLB coach Mike Smith said they were playing such a mobile QB so they were asked to just do straight rushes to push the pocket without taking too many risks. So that explains some of the predictability and lack of production.

Outside pass rush probably gonna be focused on contain again with Lamar Jackson and Robert griffin next week.

[Bretsky]

Gary was ok; and JUST ok. I don't think he was any better than that against backups. Listed to the Packer beat guy today; he noted at times he looked like he had a burst and at other times he looked like he was dogging it when trailing a play.

I think the white LB who got roasted by Spud Webb on 3rd and 12 at looked better.

The rookie who impressed me this week was the RB

[RashanGary]

The rookie who impressed me this week was the RB

Yep. Hollman looked solid too. Keke was alright. And Jenkins was invisible, so that’s a good sign.

[Zool]

They gave up 100 yards rushing at half, most of those to Joe Webb. None of the dine had a good game. Also, it’s the first preseason game so it’s kinda hard to care.

[pbmax]

OLB coach Mike Smith said they were playing such a mobile QB so they were asked to just do straight rushes to push the pocket without taking too many risks..

Fackrell did not get the memo.

[pbmax]

Yep. Hollman looked solid too. Keke was alright. And Jenkins was invisible, so that’s a good sign.

Jenkins was the second best blocker beside Lucas Patrick.

[Bretsky]

Jenkins was the second best blocker beside Lucas Patrick.


That is GREAT NEW

Jenkins is a key guy here; they drafted him partly because he can play multiple positions.

Injuries will happen on the OL

he'll be valuable if he's good enough to be our plug and play guy at C, G, and maybe even OT occasionally

[pbmax]

That is GREAT NEW

Jenkins is a key guy here; they drafted him partly because he can play multiple positions.

Injuries will happen on the OL

he'll be valuable if he's good enough to be our plug and play guy at C, G, and maybe even OT occasionally

Just be gentle here, I am only three series in.

[Fritz]

OLB coach Mike Smith said they were playing such a mobile QB so they were asked to just do straight rushes to push the pocket without taking too many risks. So that explains some of the predictability and lack of production.

Outside pass rush probably gonna be focused on contain again with Lamar Jackson and Robert griffin next week.

Blah, blah, blah.

[bobblehead]

That is GREAT NEW

Jenkins is a key guy here; they drafted him partly because he can play multiple positions.

Injuries will happen on the OL

he'll be valuable if he's good enough to be our plug and play guy at C, G, and maybe even OT occasionally

Jenkins is backing up both guards and the center and technically RT as Turner will slide over if Bulaga goes down. Then I guess Pankey? is backup up LT. Not sure, but I think he is next up at LT.

Jenkins also could end up starting at LG, but I wouldn't if its close. If you start him and any injury happens you move 2 guys.

[RashanGary]

Listened to Pettine today. They’re working Gary in the preseason as the full OLB role, something he hasn’t done much or so that’s a work in progress. As the season opens they plan to put Gary in positions that take advantages of his strengths more. In short, Gary is gonna be a part time fresh legged pass rush demon. I’ve been saying that for a while, that he’s just gonna be a pass rusher in his first year. Even Zadarius took time to round into a complete player. Everyone takes time. Gary is in a perfect position to make a huge pass rush impact tho. And I do expect it.

[Fritz]

Listened to Pettine today. They’re working Gary in the preseason as the full OLB role, something he hasn’t done much or so that’s a work in progress. As the season opens they plan to put Gary in positions that take advantages of his strengths more. In short, Gary is gonna be a part time fresh legged pass rush demon. I’ve been saying that for a while, that he’s just gonna be a pass rusher in his first year. Even Zadarius took time to round into a complete player. Everyone takes time. Gary is in a perfect position to make a huge pass rush impact tho. And I do expect it.


Clay Matthews 2009 - his rookie season. 10 sacks, one forced fumble, three fumble recoveries (one for a touchdown), 17 tackles-for-loss, 21 QB hits.

[RashanGary]

Clay Matthews 2009 - his rookie season. 10 sacks, one forced fumble, three fumble recoveries (one for a touchdown), 17 tackles-for-loss, 21 QB hits.

Even in a part time role, 10 sacks is doable for Gary and everything else too. He’s gonna be in on the best plays so his stats should be good, especially pass rush stats. Probably less tfl cuz he’s gonna be mostly a pass rusher.

Gary and Zadarius came in as DL converting to OLB. Clay was a pure linebacker. But still, I do think as a rookie pass rusher, Gary has as much talent as Clay. And in the long term he will develop into a complete player.

[Joemailman]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/17/packers-pleased-with-rashan-garys-early-development/?utm_source=smg&utm_medium=wasabi&utm_content=home-hero


Asked by reporters if he’s seen progress over two preseason games from the Packers’ talented young edge rusher, defensive coordinator Mike Pettine didn’t hesitate.


“Oh, without a doubt. We’re pleased with where he is,” Pettine said Saturday at Lambeau Field.

Pettine explained how the Packers are throwing everything at Gary early and letting him learn on the fly during camp and the preseason, with the anticipation that they’ll narrow it down and allow him to do what he does best once the regular season arrives.

“Just teaching him the outside linebacker position, we knew that he was going to be a little bit of a work in progress. We’re teaching him all of it,” Pettine said. “There are some things he’s doing now he won’t be doing in the regular season. As we get closer, we’ll hone that down and get him in positions where he’s ready to excel.”

[pbmax]

Clay Matthews 2009 - his rookie season. 10 sacks, one forced fumble, three fumble recoveries (one for a touchdown), 17 tackles-for-loss, 21 QB hits.

Someone posted the results for a lot of rookie pass rushers and those numbers are high. Sometimes it helps to be the specialist off the bench that no one is watching on film.

[pbmax]

I also want to note for the record that wist has been back and forth on this guy like a sine wave.

[call_me_ishmael]

I also want to note for the record that wist has been back and forth on this guy like a sine wave.

Yep. But not me. I am president of the Gary fan club. I dunno, I just find it hard to believe that a dude with that much physical skill who puts in the work will fail. Maybe not a franchise tag type guy, but at the very least an above average starter. Normally with these exceptional athletes that don't pan out it seems to be due to injury or lack of work ethic. It really does not sound like the work ethic is a problem here.

[Bretsky]

Yep. But not me. I am president of the Gary fan club. I dunno, I just find it hard to believe that a dude with that much physical skill who puts in the work will fail. Maybe not a franchise tag type guy, but at the very least an above average starter. Normally with these exceptional athletes that don't pan out it seems to be due to injury or lack of work ethic. It really does not sound like the work ethic is a problem here.

Just curious; how closely do you follow college football and more specifically the Big Ten

[Teamcheez1]

Just curious; how closely do you follow college football and more specifically the Big Ten

When did the Big Ten start playing football? News to me.

[Fritz]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/17/packers-pleased-with-rashan-garys-early-development/?utm_source=smg&utm_medium=wasabi&utm_content=home-hero

Apparently Gary is new to the idea that not quitting on a play is a part of playing OLB in the NFL.

You know, people got so excited - Gary letting it be known he wants to be great, thst he asked Z Smith to hang out to watch tape, blah blah blah. All part of getting that image he wants people to see out there as the narrative. But there he is, an NFL rook, and he's clearly come to camp out of shape, and he appears to have quit on a couple of preseason plays. Now there's the path to greatness, that relentless pursuit to be the best.

[Bretsky]

When did the Big Ten start playing football? News to me.

Ouch

[RashanGary]

R-E-L-A-X It’s preseason. Practice means more than the game for starters and regular rotation players.

[wist43]

What does it cost him to hustle in pursuit??

That lazy jog we've seen 2 weeks in a row in preseason is exactly what he did in every game at Michigan.

A leopard doesn't change his spots... like I said, it is a very bad look.

Hopefully the light goes on, b/c the #12 pick is too valuable to waste on a lazy guy who thinks he can turn it off and on at will. Those types of guys always fail.

[pbmax]

What does it cost him to hustle in pursuit??

That lazy jog we've seen 2 weeks in a row in preseason is exactly what he did in every game at Michigan.

A leopard doesn't change his spots... like I said, it is a very bad look.

Hopefully the light goes on, b/c the #12 pick is too valuable to waste on a lazy guy who thinks he can turn it off and on at will. Those types of guys always fail.

No, no, no. You gotta redeem yourself for falling for the hype post-draft. You don't get to pile on yet. Suffer for a while Mr. Zig Zagger.

Fritz and Bretsky get to gloat, as it were, first.

[wist43]

No, no, no. You gotta redeem yourself for falling for the hype post-draft. You don't get to pile on yet. Suffer for a while Mr. Zig Zagger.

Fritz and Bretsky get to gloat, as it were, first.

Not zig-zagging... want Gary to be a player, and think he can be; but, and it's a huge but, if he's lazy and has an "entitled" attitude?? Can't coach over that, he'll fail.

White was my first choice, Burns my second.

[call_me_ishmael]

Just curious; how closely do you follow college football and more specifically the Big Ten

I don't watch football at all basically anymore Bretsky. No time. Impossible to watch a game with little kids running around.

I do read a lot though.

[call_me_ishmael]

Apparently Gary is new to the idea that not quitting on a play is a part of playing OLB in the NFL.

You know, people got so excited - Gary letting it be known he wants to be great, thst he asked Z Smith to hang out to watch tape, blah blah blah. All part of getting that image he wants people to see out there as the narrative. But there he is, an NFL rook, and he's clearly come to camp out of shape, and he appears to have quit on a couple of preseason plays. Now there's the path to greatness, that relentless pursuit to be the best.

I haven't seen anything about him being out of shape. Do you have a link?

[bobblehead]

Apparently Gary is new to the idea that not quitting on a play is a part of playing OLB in the NFL.

You know, people got so excited - Gary letting it be known he wants to be great, thst he asked Z Smith to hang out to watch tape, blah blah blah. All part of getting that image he wants people to see out there as the narrative. But there he is, an NFL rook, and he's clearly come to camp out of shape, and he appears to have quit on a couple of preseason plays. Now there's the path to greatness, that relentless pursuit to be the best.

I don't really want to be known as a Gary defender. To date he has lived up to his resume. Great athlete who doesn't produce.

However,

Came to camp out of shape? The man weighs 276 and had a body fat of 10%. That's obscene. And as far as quitting on a couple plays, show me any player over 250 in the NFL and I'll show you a few clips of him letting up when the play went away, or is out of reach. I do appreciate the high motor freaks, but they are the exception not the rule (I often said it was Clay's only real attribute).

[bobblehead]

Listened to Pettine today. They’re working Gary in the preseason as the full OLB role, something he hasn’t done much or so that’s a work in progress. As the season opens they plan to put Gary in positions that take advantages of his strengths more. In short, Gary is gonna be a part time fresh legged pass rush demon. I’ve been saying that for a while, that he’s just gonna be a pass rusher in his first year. Even Zadarius took time to round into a complete player. Everyone takes time. Gary is in a perfect position to make a huge pass rush impact tho. And I do expect it.

Now I'll go the other way. This is coach speak for:

We had high hopes, but he isn't picking up the position so we will have to scale down his responsibilities and use him situationally.

[Fritz]

I haven't seen anything about him being out of shape. Do you have a link?

I don't recall if it was a JSO article or a Packerrat who said he was huffing and puffing and out of gas in the first game, fairly early on.

[mraynrand]

I don't recall if it was a JSO article or a Packerrat who said he was huffing and puffing and out of gas in the first game, fairly early on.

I’m not sure it’s possible to distinguish between being gassed or dogging it. Regardless, it lends and air of casual unseriousness. I’ll be happy if it stays in the preseason.

[Guiness]

Someone called for a Clay-like 10 sacks out of him his rookie season - and after 2 preseason games in which he played a fair number of snaps his line is 0-0 0.0. Ouch

[RashanGary]

Not to be an asshole but I’m gonna be an asshole here. I’ve watched more practices than almost anyone here over the last 15 years. What happens in practice is more important than what happens in the preseason games for the roster locks like Gary or Davante Adams. Stat lines don’t mean shit in preseason. Gary destroying whoever was in front of him, Packer or Texan when the cameras weren’t on and other teams couldn’t watch. That’s what matters. Period.

And I can buy pettine saying Gary is not what he hoped for if I haven’t been already calling Gary’s role since day one. I knew he was a pass rush specialist in year one. I’ve been saying it for months. Nobody with football intelligence is surprised that Rashan Gary isn’t a polished OLB right now. Facts.

[RashanGary]

Now season 2. Gary should be spending his whole offseason working the fundamentals of his new position. I do expect him to be a great rookie based on dominance of OL through practice. But whether or not he works himself into a true dominant pro, he’s gonna have to
Show he’s committed to his craft. He couldn’t have a better guy in front of him in Z. Now he’s gonna have to do it NEXT YEAR. He’s not expected to be polished this year. Like i said, nobody with football wisdom expected it. Nobody. But of course they’re using preseason to develop those areas. That’s what preseason is for.

[RashanGary]

Speaking of someone who’s gonna blow expectations out of the water, MVS is a beast. I’ve watched it. Regular season will prove it.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's been said many times that it takes a year or two or three for a D Lineman to play to near his potential. I'm far from ready to give up on Gary. As bobblehead said above, you won't find any or many guys as big as him who can go all out all the time. He has hardly looked lazy to me. Additionally, he has only been used as a plain vanilla outside pass rusher so far, and only that in a plain vanilla base D without extra pass rushers coming up the middle. What they have talked about, and what should be a real sight to see is either Gary rushing inside with the two Smiths as bookend OLBs or Z. Smith rushing inside with Gary and the other Smith on the outside. When we start seeing that - regular season or one of the last two preseason games, then we can judge whether he might be a boom or a bust.

[QBME]

Not to be an asshole but I’m gonna be an asshole here. I’ve watched more practices than almost anyone here over the last 15 years. What happens in practice is more important than what happens in the preseason games for the roster locks like Gary or Davante Adams. Stat lines don’t mean shit in preseason. Gary destroying whoever was in front of him, Packer or Texan when the cameras weren’t on and other teams couldn’t watch. That’s what matters. Period.

And I can buy pettine saying Gary is not what he hoped for if I haven’t been already calling Gary’s role since day one. I knew he was a pass rush specialist in year one. I’ve been saying it for months. Nobody with football intelligence is surprised that Rashan Gary isn’t a polished OLB right now. Facts.

Wow. Gotta go with this one. RG is a 6 week old pup. Let's all take a step back and see if he learns.

[Bretsky]

Someone called for a Clay-like 10 sacks out of him his rookie season - and after 2 preseason games in which he played a fair number of snaps his line is 0-0 0.0. Ouch



2 Games
No Box Score
Huge Upside


Just Like Michigan

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=JustinHarrell;1016913ot

And I can buy pettine saying Gary is not what he hoped for if I haven’t been already calling Gary’s role since day one. I knew he was a pass rush specialist in year one. I’ve been saying it for months. Nobody with football intelligence is surprised that Rashan Gary isn’t a polished OLB right now. Facts.[/QUOTE]


Certainly respect your view; but it's concerning when we hear about dominance in practice following by nothingness in Games

Is Gary really suited to be a 4-3 DE ? Hear that on ESPN 1070 today. Sounded familiar

[Bretsky]

Speaking of someone who’s gonna blow expectations out of the water, MVS is a beast. I’ve watched it. Regular season will prove it.



He seemed like he had a TON of talent last year

Different from Kumerow, who has limited upside but seems to be consistently decent enough to play in the NFL....kinda opposite of Moore....loads of talent but fails to make plays

[mraynrand]

With really hard work, Kumerow might surpass Brett Swain in long term influence.

[RashanGary]

2 Games
No Box Score
Huge Upside


Just Like Michigan

No opinions that differ from my opinion on Gary will be tolerated here :lol:

I really hope I’m right this time! We need some juice!

[Bretsky]

No opinions that differ from my opinion on Gary will be tolerated here :lol:

I really hope I’m right this time! We need some juice!




DUDE I hope you are right !!!!

[pbmax]

Certainly respect your view; but it's concerning when we hear about dominance in practice following by nothingness in Games

Is Gary really suited to be a 4-3 DE ? Hear that on ESPN 1070 today. Sounded familiar

This is just recycled Perry non-sense. Its like Mad Libs for football. This player is struggling at OLB because ___________. [choose one] too heavy/too skinny/4-3 DE/hands are small

I agree with Justin that suddenly being disappointed that he might be a pass rushing specialist is just too cute by half. That was exactly what the team wanted when they drafted him. No problem if it takes a year or even two to become a full fledged OLB.

What concerns me is that it hasn't shown up in games. And I consider that more important that defeating the 2nd and 3rd string regularly in practice. There is just no bend or snap, no closing. Looks more like Fackrell than anyone else so far. All this length and quickness getting nowhere. He can be disruptive, but he doesn't get to the QB, which right now makes him a nice complement to the pass rush.

[pbmax]

Kumerow is the guy you can survive and function and win with for a while if pressed into starting. He will get open. I am just not sure he will help carry the team at WR. Needs better talent ahead of him.

He's Derek Loville of WR.

[Fritz]

This is just recycled Perry non-sense. Its like Mad Libs for football. This player is struggling at OLB because ___________. [choose one] too heavy/too skinny/4-3 DE/hands are small

I agree with Justin that suddenly being disappointed that he might be a pass rushing specialist is just too cute by half. That was exactly what the team wanted when they drafted him. No problem if it takes a year or even two to become a full fledged OLB.

What concerns me is that it hasn't shown up in games. And I consider that more important that defeating the 2nd and 3rd string regularly in practice. There is just no bend or snap, no closing. Looks more like Fackrell than anyone else so far. All this length and quickness getting nowhere. He can be disruptive, but he doesn't get to the QB, which right now makes him a nice complement to the pass rush.


Gary is, as Shakespeare said, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[gbgary]

I don't really want to be known as a Gary defender. To date he has lived up to his resume. Great athlete who doesn't produce.

However,

Came to camp out of shape? The man weighs 276 and had a body fat of 10%. That's obscene. And as far as quitting on a couple plays, show me any player over 250 in the NFL and I'll show you a few clips of him letting up when the play went away, or is out of reach. I do appreciate the high motor freaks, but they are the exception not the rule (I often said it was Clay's only real attribute).
exactly!

Not to be an asshole but I’m gonna be an asshole here. I’ve watched more practices than almost anyone here over the last 15 years. What happens in practice is more important than what happens in the preseason games for the roster locks like Gary or Davante Adams. Stat lines don’t mean shit in preseason. Gary destroying whoever was in front of him, Packer or Texan when the cameras weren’t on and other teams couldn’t watch. That’s what matters. Period.

And I can buy pettine saying Gary is not what he hoped for if I haven’t been already calling Gary’s role since day one. I knew he was a pass rush specialist in year one. I’ve been saying it for months. Nobody with football intelligence is surprised that Rashan Gary isn’t a polished OLB right now. Facts.
agreed!

[bobblehead]

Wow. Gotta go with this one. RG is a 6 week old pup. Let's all take a step back and see if he learns.

True. It took TJ Watt almost 5 weeks to excel.

[bobblehead]

No opinions that differ from my opinion on Gary will be tolerated here :lol:

I really hope I’m right this time! We need some juice!

We are all dying to eat crow :) Well, I've hedged from day 2 so its more like eating....well, some other bird.

[texaspackerbacker]

I have been and still am as positive as anybody about Gary. On the other hand, though, my first thought when they drafted him is the Packers have made a habit of drafting oversize outside pass rushers/DEs/OLBs over the years - Nick Perry, Datone Jones (Clay Matthews being the exception). This might even still be a reaction to the debacle of drafting Jamal Reynolds - who I was absolutely all in for at the time he was drafted.

I sincerely hope Gary doesn't turn out to be the next incarnation of Nick Perry and Datone Jones.

[RashanGary]

True. It took TJ Watt almost 5 weeks to excel.

One day there will be a player as good as JJ Watt. But nobody will ever predict it because nobody has ever predicted the next Reggie White. We just accept that you can never foresee that.

That said, I do expect Gary to be a rookie pass rush demon. Joe Webb, Lamar Jackson and Trace McSorely aren’t exactly your who’s who of pin your years back and aggressively rush the passer quarterbacks. I think there’s somewhere between a good chance to a guaranteed chance we haven’t seen Gary use any of his aggressive stuff. And the speed is nullified with the mobile QBs so just some unusually bad matchups for him to flash here.

I’ll flip flop into the Gary hater camp as soon as something real happens where he looks bad. But not getting good pass rush attempts in the preseason against three of the most mobile QBs in the NFL isn’t a reason for me to dismiss the practice dominance yet. And even though it doesn’t lead to sacks, it’s great experience for him to see these guys.

[call_me_ishmael]

How are Gary's agility numbers? Somebody was saying he looked stiff trying to bend. I wouldn't expect that to be the case given his overall athletic body of work but you never know.

How good would Trace McSorely be if he was 220 and 6'4"? Dude was really, really good in college. I love him as a player but he is small. He routinely wrecked Wisconsin and the rest of the B10.

[RashanGary]

Gary’s speed/size is the best ever recorded
His size/shuttle is very good
His size/3 cone is decent

Gary is a freak because of his size/length/power/speed. He measures good in everything else.

[pbmax]

How are Gary's agility numbers? Somebody was saying he looked stiff trying to bend. I wouldn't expect that to be the case given his overall athletic body of work but you never know.

How good would Trace McSorely be if he was 220 and 6'4"? Dude was really, really good in college. I love him as a player but he is small. He routinely wrecked Wisconsin and the rest of the B10.

His 3 cone was the number that wasn't otherworldly. But I was talking about the practical nature of applying pressure to the QB. His speed rush is less effective than KGB and he has no counter. He just stops and dances. He looks like a less motivated Fackrell right now.

Justin says this is not the case in practice. I hope its not and he snaps out of it, but for now he looks like a good sized one trick pony. But its early.

[RashanGary]

Derek Carr and Mike Glennon are more of the QBs who give him some nice aggressive pass rush opportunities. If he doesn’t flash a little bit Thursday, I’ll start to buy into the negative pub.

[Strange Brew]

Can't wait to see Gary play in his first preseason game Thursday night! Oh wait.....nevermind.

[pbmax]

Can't wait to see Gary play in his first preseason game Thursday night! Oh wait.....nevermind.

I am down with memory holing the first two games if he shines in Game 3.

[Bretsky]

His 3 cone was the number that wasn't otherworldly. But I was talking about the practical nature of applying pressure to the QB. His speed rush is less effective than KGB and he has no counter. He just stops and dances. He looks like a less motivated Fackrell right now.

Justin says this is not the case in practice. I hope its not and he snaps out of it, but for now he looks like a good sized one trick pony. But its early.



Twice you've compared him to Fackrell.

If Gary is Fackrell #2 WISTY will have two players to cheer for all year:)

[RashanGary]

I’m starting to worry about my dude. He’s gotta show something soon or I can’t keep fighting for him. Still think he’s a beast but those first two preseason games looked bad, I admit.

[Bretsky]

I’m starting to worry about my dude. He’s gotta show something soon or I can’t keep fighting for him. Still think he’s a beast but those first two preseason games looked bad, I admit.



Hopefully he doesn't turn out to be your next Packerrats username :)

[RashanGary]

Hopefully he doesn't turn out to be your next Packerrats username :)

If Gary sucks, I’ll change my name. I need the shame reminder of how much I don’t know it all 🤣

[pbmax]

Twice you've compared him to Fackrell.

If Gary is Fackrell #2 WISTY will have two players to cheer for all year:)

They aren't exactly the same but the same promising first move never gets them anywhere. At least Fackrell bounces around like a bowling ball in the pocket.

Also, I have seen only one game, so take this with a grain of salt.

[pbmax]

Twice you've compared him to Fackrell.

If Gary is Fackrell #2 WISTY will have two players to cheer for all year:)

wist is claiming he didn't like him all along now.

[wist43]

wist is claiming he didn't like him all along now.

Didn't like who all along??

Don't like Fackrell, but am hoping Gary puts it together...

That jogging thing though?? Just can't get over that - wow!!

[RashanGary]

We’re a couple hours away from Gary making me look like a genius! Now that the Lamar Jackson’s and Joe Webb’s of the league are our of our hair for a little while, it’s time to go from contain edge play to some more aggressive rush opportunities. Gary gonna silence the doubters tonight!

And if he don’t, I’ll trade in my know it all cap for a plate of crow and admit maybe I was wrong. Maybe.

[call_me_ishmael]

We’re a couple hours away from Gary making me look like a genius! Now that the Lamar Jackson’s and Joe Webb’s of the league are our of our hair for a little while, it’s time to go from contain edge play to some more aggressive rush opportunities. Gary gonna silence the doubters tonight!

And if he don’t, I’ll trade in my know it all cap for a plate of crow and admit maybe I was wrong. Maybe.

It's week 3 of the preseason. It doesn't matter one bit. What matters is if he is a good player 365 days from today.

[RashanGary]

It's week 3 of the preseason. It doesn't matter one bit. What matters is if he is a good player 365 days from today.

That’s true. I said maybe. He should show something if he gets legitimate drop back opportunities to rush a pocket passer tho. It will allow him to be aggressive. And honestly, I do expect him to show his talent tonight cuz he should have those chances.

[RashanGary]

So like i said, after tonight I’ll agree that maybe I’m wrong. I’ll still have hope until a few games into the regular season. There is absolutely nothing holding him back from being a good pass rusher though. If he doesn’t show that in the regular season, I could care less if he ever becomes a well rounded OLB. I expect a pass rusher from the 12th pick. He’s physically developed. Doesn’t need time. No excuse to not be a good rusher.

[Fritz]

So like i said, after tonight I’ll agree that maybe I’m wrong. I’ll still have hope until a few games into the regular season. There is absolutely nothing holding him back from being a good pass rusher though. If he doesn’t show that in the regular season, I could care less if he ever becomes a well rounded OLB. I expect a pass rusher from the 12th pick. He’s physically developed. Doesn’t need time. No excuse to not be a good rusher.


Well, well, well.

If you haven't been paying attention to ol' Fritzy, allow me to quote the GBPG and let them explain Rashan Gary in a nutshell:

"first-round pick Rashan Gary was carted off the field after being bent back awkwardly making a tackle in the first half (his management group later tweeted he was OK)."

His management group?

Now, of course, the back will be an issue - oh, he'll talk about how much he wants to play. He'll talk about being ready on Sunday. He'll probably suit up, might even play. But he'll keep talking about how that darn back issue is affecting his play, his ability to do the things he's capable of doing, etc., etc.

I am telling you, this dude is all show, no go.

[SudsMcBucky]

I hate to say it, but prior to the draft there was a thread discussing mock drafts and players in our range and I was the first to say basically anyone in that range EXCEPT Gary. I was hoping I was wrong reading Justin's posts, but I fear this pick is not going to end well. Damn, I really wanted to be wrong on that post.

[wist43]

My hope for Gary is pretty much gone...

Maybe Burns will bust out too... take the sting out of it a bit, lol...

My guess is Burns will be in the pro bowl pretty quickly, and Gary will be on his 2nd team after his contract expires.

[call_me_ishmael]

I definitely was pro-burns but I think Gary is going to be fine. Give him some time. It's three pre-season games in fer christ sakes. Pre-season. Pre-season. Pre-season.

He'll be fine. Let's give him some time.

[mraynrand]

My guess is Burns will be in the pro bowl pretty quickly, and Gary will be on his 2nd team after his contract expires.

Don't sweat it. Have a little heart.

[pbmax]

Now this is territory I am familiar with. Bandwagon empties on high pick.

Time to get ready for the Rashan Gary Rejuventaion Fan Club next offseason.

[Joemailman]

My hope for Gary is pretty much gone...



As a kid, were you convinced by Halloween that Santa Claus wasn't coming to your house this year?

[Fritz]

Now this is territory I am familiar with. Bandwagon empties on high pick.

Time to get ready for the Rashan Gary Rejuventaion Fan Club next offseason.

It's been great fun convincing everyone Gary is a bust, a la Tony Mandarich or Jamaal Reynolds. And he has yet to play a single down in an NFL regular season game!

I am quite impressed with myself. This might be my greatest Packerrats moment, which could only be exceeded if Gary has a great year and I am somehow able to change the narrative so it ends up that everyone believes that I predicted greatness for Rashan Gary from Day One.

[Smidgeon]

It's been great fun convincing everyone Gary is a bust, a la Tony Mandarich or Jamaal Reynolds. And he has yet to play a single down in an NFL regular season game!

I am quite impressed with myself. This might be my greatest Packerrats moment, which could only be exceeded if Gary has a great year and I am somehow able to change the narrative so it ends up that everyone believes that I predicted greatness for Rashan Gary from Day One.

I believe in you.

[pbmax]

It's been great fun convincing everyone Gary is a bust, a la Tony Mandarich or Jamaal Reynolds. And he has yet to play a single down in an NFL regular season game!

I am quite impressed with myself. This might be my greatest Packerrats moment, which could only be exceeded if Gary has a great year and I am somehow able to change the narrative so it ends up that everyone believes that I predicted greatness for Rashan Gary from Day One.

Don't steal wist's next move.

[mraynrand]

It's been great fun convincing everyone Gary is a bust, a la Tony Mandarich or Jamaal Reynolds. And he has yet to play a single down in an NFL regular season game!

I am quite impressed with myself. This might be my greatest Packerrats moment, which could only be exceeded if Gary has a great year and I am somehow able to change the narrative so it ends up that everyone believes that I predicted greatness for Rashan Gary from Day One.

I just hope he stars in a movie with Drew Barrymore, where she inexplicably has an uncontrollable, unrequited crush on him. Maybe a body swap kinda thing where his worthless pass pushing self gets transposed into the body of Denzel Washington. I'm calling Hollywood right now.

[bobblehead]

My hope for Gary is pretty much gone...

Maybe Burns will bust out too... take the sting out of it a bit, lol...

My guess is Burns will be in the pro bowl pretty quickly, and Gary will be on his 2nd team after his contract expires.

While I never fully got on the Gary bandwagon I did try to find reason to remain optimistic. I don't see many reasons now.

I too wanted Burns (I actually wanted to trade down and take Burns or Sweat or Dillard.) Burns is lights out and Dillard is simply a WALL!! Plus his run blocking has been good.

Lets face it. I'm almost off the Gutes bandwagon. The season will play out and tell me more of course, but signing Graham to a big deal, trading capital to get Savage, drafting Gary. Trading up for Burks. His moves haven't inspired me so far.

Wist and I could have managed a better draft than Gutes did and we don't get paid for it...that says it all.

[mraynrand]

Wist and I could have managed a better draft than Gutes did and we don't get paid for it...that says it all.

You guys should run your own team. There's money to be made in football I hear.

[call_me_ishmael]

While I never fully got on the Gary bandwagon I did try to find reason to remain optimistic. I don't see many reasons now.

I too wanted Burns (I actually wanted to trade down and take Burns or Sweat or Dillard.) Burns is lights out and Dillard is simply a WALL!! Plus his run blocking has been good.

Lets face it. I'm almost off the Gutes bandwagon. The season will play out and tell me more of course, but signing Graham to a big deal, trading capital to get Savage, drafting Gary. Trading up for Burks. His moves haven't inspired me so far.

Wist and I could have managed a better draft than Gutes did and we don't get paid for it...that says it all.

I mean, you're a little premature, no? We're about 3 years away from having any idea. I'm optimistic. Is there any doubt the bottom of the roster is more athletic and more competitive than in years past?

[RashanGary]

The concerning thing is I’m seeing the exact same thing on NFL tape that I saw at Michigan. Exact same player. He had so few actual rush opportunities at Michigan I saw the skill and talent that it the drop back was there he’d hit home.

Honestly, so far he hasn’t had many really good rush opportunities in preseason yet either.

But fuck, Gary, it’s getting harder for me to stand by what i see and ignore the lack of production.

My last hope, and it’s there, is that preseason is a bunch of running and basic coverages so quick passes and we’ll get a real taste of Gary in the regular season when masked coverages lead to longer release times. I do still see beast skill and tools if the opportunities are there for pass rushing. And I still haven’t seen many good opportunities. So it’s really in the same spot it’s always been

I just feel like the momentum against him has grown and it’s harder for me to convincingly show the other side.

[George Cumby]

So he sucks again?

(I know, for Fritz, he never stopped sucking.)

[red]

game tape doesn't lie

you watch all the plays of him in college and you see the exact same player you see now. a guy who flashes for about a second, then shuts in down

he gives up on almost every single play, especially if the guy with the ball runs away from him, he will not chase and put himself in a position to make a play

don't believe the bull shit about his lack of production in pre season is because of a change in position. his problem are all attitude.

when a guy is a massive flop at a major school who has a former NFL head coach, then that should be all you need to know

the guy has never in his life played up to his potential, why in the hell does anyone think he'll do it now at the highest level of the game?

of course i hope i'm wrong. but the tape don't lie

[red]

and that tackle last night was just terrible. its like he tried to shove his face all the way up the ball carriers asshole

guys lucky he didn't end his career last night

[Fritz]

So he sucks again?

(I know, for Fritz, he never stopped sucking.)

This line makes me feel slightly uneasy.

[pbmax]

game tape doesn't lie

you watch all the plays of him in college and you see the exact same player you see now. a guy who flashes for about a second, then shuts in down

he gives up on almost every single play, especially if the guy with the ball runs away from him, he will not chase and put himself in a position to make a play

don't believe the bull shit about his lack of production in pre season is because of a change in position. his problem are all attitude.

when a guy is a massive flop at a major school who has a former NFL head coach, then that should be all you need to know

the guy has never in his life played up to his potential, why in the hell does anyone think he'll do it now at the highest level of the game?

of course i hope i'm wrong. but the tape don't lie

Join the fantasy league please.

I think the position thing is really. He has no rush from outside. Have to hope he has one from the inside. His stunt to the middle was freaky fast. They picked him up but someone is going to miss him.

[Smidgeon]

The only thing right now that bugs me has nothing to do with football. It's that his first order of business was to set up a business. Establish yourself as a star player first, then go lay your foundation for your post-football career.

But to disagree with Fritz, I don't think this correlates at all to his football success (or lack thereof). As a top 15 pick, we expect results immediately. Especially since so few of GB's top 15 picks seem to work out. I'm willing to wait it out to see what happens this year though. Many definitive conculsions being drawn up in this thread already though.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This forum is hilarious. In other places I read that Gary was pretty solid in this game. I come here and it's all doom and gloom. I wonder what people on this forum were saying about Kenny Clark at this point of his rookie year.

I didn't see the game. I did see three plays on Twitter where he did what he was supposed to.

Good rush here. Not a bull rush. Used his hands nicely.

https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164982768436219906

Stayed home on the fake and still got in on the tackle.

https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164956715114225665

Got in the throwing lane while dropping into coverage here.

https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164701154644779009

He's not going to be Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas. He doesn't bend well enough, but he'll fit Pettine's defense. I think the Packers will be happy if he turns out to be a 8-10 sack/year guy who is stout against the run. Somebody similar to Za'Darius Smith.

[mraynrand]

Seems like he did some good stuff in that game

Does he seem a bit stiff/too upright on that edge move of his? Saw that in some of the college film.

He's still a young pup too

[pbmax]

This forum is hilarious. In other places I read that Gary was pretty solid in this game. I come here and it's all doom and gloom. I wonder what people on this forum were saying about Kenny Clark at this point of his rookie year.

I didn't see the game. I did see three plays on Twitter where he did what he was supposed to.

Good rush here. Not a bull rush. Used his hands nicely.

https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164982768436219906

Stayed home on the fake and still got in on the tackle.

https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164956715114225665

Got in the throwing lane while dropping into coverage here.

https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164701154644779009

He's not going to be Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas. He doesn't bend well enough, but he'll fit Pettine's defense. I think the Packers will be happy if he turns out to be a 8-10 sack/year guy who is stout against the run. Somebody similar to Za'Darius Smith. BTW, it tooks awhile for Smith to develop.

Well, three plays might be about the extent of it :lol: . He started slow and did get better. I wasn't tracking Oakland's lineup but I wonder if he was up against backups at some point?

Best play of the night was: https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164982768436219906"]https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164982768436219906

Was second best outside move: https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164956715114225665"]https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164956715114225665

Best play against run: https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164701154644779009"]https://twitter.com/jackwepfer/status/1164701154644779009

He also had two nice bull rushes where he then dipped under the outside shoulder of the Tackle. Problem is he did not get home on any of them. And he still jogs around after plays except for the one he got hurt on. He's got a little of marshmallow in him. But he definitely raised the bar over Fackrell.

And we haven't mentioned his freakishly fast inside stunt that got picked up but looked quite dangerous. We'll see. Like his speed, he has tools, but needs some results.

[wist43]

You guys should run your own team. There's money to be made in football I hear.

I would have picked Burns... it's that simple.

For the sake of our team, I hope he gets it together.

[Bretsky]

It's been great fun convincing everyone Gary is a bust, a la Tony Mandarich or Jamaal Reynolds. And he has yet to play a single down in an NFL regular season game!

I am quite impressed with myself. This might be my greatest Packerrats moment, which could only be exceeded if Gary has a great year and I am somehow able to change the narrative so it ends up that everyone believes that I predicted greatness for Rashan Gary from Day One.


Don't you take all the glory without me ………..lol...…………….I HATED the best OLB at Michigan and his name was "not" Gary.

I'll still be happy to be wrong.

If you are the President of the Anti Gary Club I'm definitely the VP :))))

[Bretsky]

My hope for Gary is pretty much gone...

Maybe Burns will bust out too... take the sting out of it a bit, lol...

My guess is Burns will be in the pro bowl pretty quickly, and Gary will be on his 2nd team after his contract expires.




Well, before you flipped, you did say he's be out of the league in 3 years :)))

[Bretsky]

I definitely was pro-burns but I think Gary is going to be fine. Give him some time. It's three pre-season games in fer christ sakes. Pre-season. Pre-season. Pre-season.

He'll be fine. Let's give him some time.



He makes everybody better.

[Bretsky]

It's been great fun convincing everyone Gary is a bust, a la Tony Mandarich or Jamaal Reynolds. And he has yet to play a single down in an NFL regular season game!

I am quite impressed with myself. This might be my greatest Packerrats moment, which could only be exceeded if Gary has a great year and I am somehow able to change the narrative so it ends up that everyone believes that I predicted greatness for Rashan Gary from Day One.




Told ya Fritz was going to have a great season !!

[Bretsky]

So he sucks again?

(I know, for Fritz, he never stopped sucking.)


Not again

Looks like Tarzan; plays like Jane

[Bretsky]

This line makes me feel slightly uneasy.


Give me the microphone Fritzy and I'll never stop talking :)))

[wist43]

Well, before you flipped, you did say he's be out of the league in 3 years :)))

The problem with Gary isn't his physical ability - its his 10 cent head, and overall lack of toughness.

What you hope you're getting is the highlight reel, and all-pro effort. Gary seems like he's lazy and an excuse maker... as I said, those guys always fail and everyone laments what could have been.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Told ya Fritz was going to have a great season !!

I was first on that bandwagon. I think I'm president of the Fritz Fan Club.

[mraynrand]

I was first on that bandwagon. I think I'm president of the Fritz Fan Club.

He makes everyone better.

[RashanGary]

He makes everybody better.

Bretsky in mid season form! You know if Gary pounds out 8-10 sacks imma be rubbing it in too!!

And I love being wrong when I can’t stand a player. But in this case I hope I’m right!

[Bretsky]

Bretsky in mid season form! You know if Gary pounds out 8-10 sacks imma be rubbing it in too!!

And I love being wrong when I can’t stand a player. But in this case I hope I’m right!


If Gary pounds out a bunch of sacks I'd be disappointed in your if you didn't rub it in :))

[Bretsky]

He makes everyone better.

Yes, he does

I think he was the first to join my Odell Smash Mouth Thurman bus

[RashanGary]

If Gary pounds out a bunch of sacks I'd be disappointed in your if you didn't rub it in :))

I’m gonna have fun with the season no matter what. Even if it’s just taking and giving shit, I ain’t gonna get all serious no matter what! I’m getting too old to be tense. Not worth it!

[bobblehead]

You guys should run your own team. There's money to be made in football I hear.

Sure. At my age I will start a new career that is rife with nepotism and abandon my lifes work. Why not.

[bobblehead]

I mean, you're a little premature, no? We're about 3 years away from having any idea. I'm optimistic. Is there any doubt the bottom of the roster is more athletic and more competitive than in years past?

Of course. I hedged my words if you read them. I am giving my impressions atm, but they are open to changing. Gutes is by no means a failure yet, but I stand by my assessment that his moves haven't inspired. Everyone he made big plays for has underwhelmed me so far. His "boring ted" moves have been his best. Yes, the bottom of the roster has improved, but that is secondary to hitting on the guys you give up capital for be it picks or dollars.

[Bretsky]

I’m gonna have fun with the season no matter what. Even if it’s just taking and giving shit, I ain’t gonna get all serious no matter what! I’m getting too old to be tense. Not worth it!


I would completely agree; one or two times in the past we've been brash/abrasive in here. It's not worth it.

Life is too short

I'm just going to have fun. While I wanted no part of Gary and would have rather had that hippy prick OLB from Michigan, I hope to hell I'm wrong and he turns into the next LT.

My expectations are not that high this year. I'm expecting a 8-8 season and no playoffs.

Hoping we take a stellar jump next year or the year after.

[mraynrand]

Sure. At my age I will start a new career that is rife with nepotism and abandon my lifes work. Why not.

I'm 52 and that's what I'm doing. It can be done. Hey, if you can make better moves than an NFL GM without scouts and an entire film department, just think what you could do with all that at your fingertips.

[pbmax]

Sure. At my age I will start a new career that is rife with nepotism and abandon my lifes work. Why not.

Good. You start on Monday.

I cannot find a GIF of Judge Reinhold getting a gift from his father when starting a new job just out of college in the movie Head Office. His mother sends him a lovely note. His Dad, a US Senator, gives him the book, "Winning Through Intimidation" with a note "Don't Screw This Up!".

[pbmax]

I'm 52 and that's what I'm doing. It can be done. Hey, if you can make better moves than an NFL GM without scouts and an entire film department, just think what you could do with all that at your fingertips.

Sincere good luck. Cannot be easy. Same thing happened to my father, though he stayed in the same industry for the next job.

[Fritz]

He makes everyone better.

I try not to let the facts get in the way.

[mraynrand]

I cannot find a GIF of Judge Reinhold getting a gift from his father when starting a new job just out of college in the movie Head Office. His mother sends him a lovely note. His Dad, a US Senator, gives him the book, "Winning Through Intimidation" with a note "Don't Screw This Up!".

Another movie to put on my "must see" list

apparently there is a Don King cameo...

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fi%2F1607 88600144-0-1%2Fs-l1000.jpg&f=1

[pbmax]

Another movie to put on my "must see" list

apparently there is a Don King cameo...

[IMG]https:G]

At first, I thought you were saying he was in trolls :D

He is in it and gives a great speech to the Board which conveys nothing of substance. Its fantastic.

Rick Moranis and Danny DeVito make cameos and are great. Jane Seymour has a few great lines. Boyfriend from One Day At A Time is in it too.

My favorite is the board scene where Eddie Albert approves a questionable sale of weapons. Beautiful.