First Round Pick 2019, Rashan Gary

[pbmax]

All about athleticism.

RAS score was the best at inside DL position: https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-draft-special-ras-short-list-514


His SPARQ score is 3rd on the EDGE: https://3sigmaathlete.com/sparq-rankings-2019/edge/

[pbmax]

WARNING: No idea who this is or where chart it from

Joe Redemann @JayArr47

In terms of overall athleticism, @RashanAGary's closest comp is J.J. Watt.

When adjusting for physique, things don't look much worse. #Packers

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5C2TrBW4AEhqME.png:large

[pbmax]

PFF GB Packers @PFF_Packers

Rashan Gary graded out higher as a run defender each season at Michigan compared to pass-rushing.

Run Grades
2018: 83.2
2017: 76.7
2016: 75.5

Pass-Rush Grades
2018: 71.5
2017: 72.7
2016: 65.8
#Packers

[Bretsky]

Was Gary hurt most of his career ? Athletically he is incredibly gifted. Harv noted his issue was not motivation. He wasn't even their best rusher and at some key plays he was riding the sideline.

What was the reasoning for the lack of production (asking this seriously if anybody knows) ?

[Joemailman]

Was Gary hurt most of his career ? Athletically he is incredibly gifted. Harv noted his issue was not motivation. He wasn't even their best rusher and at some key plays he was riding the sideline.

What was the reasoning for the lack of production (asking this seriously if anybody knows) ?

He had a shoulder injury in 2018. He was more productive in 2017.

[pbmax]

Bill Huber thinks it could be Dr. Zaius and Gary inside. Preston Smith and Holy Fackrell outside on pass downs.

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/FIRST-ROUND-Packers-pick-Rashan-Gary-of-Michigan-131530604/

[Joemailman]

Bill Huber thinks it could be Dr. Zaius and Gary inside. Preston Smith and Holy Fackrell outside on pass downs.

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/FIRST-ROUND-Packers-pick-Rashan-Gary-of-Michigan-131530604/

Is it time to stop referring to the Packers as a 3-4 team?

[pbmax]

Is it time to stop referring to the Packers as a 3-4 team?

Eh. Its always been a 4 man rush on passing downs unless its 15+ yards.

[pbmax]

Michael Cohen @Michael_Cohen13

Gary said he played 6-technique at Michigan and lined up over the TE. The C-gap was his responsibility. Speaking very intelligently about the Xs and Os he was asked to perform in college. #Packers

[Joemailman]

https://www.packers.com/news/pick-profile-much-more-than-stats-to-rashan-gary-s-game


“He commanded a lot of attention at Michigan, double teams, triple teams, taking on the tight end,” college scout Joe Hueber said. “You saw it in some of his teammates. They got freed up and they were able to get production.

“It’s not like he wasn’t impacting the game. You watch him, he was all over the place, getting off blocks, and getting pressure too.”

One of those teammates was inside linebacker Devin Bush, chosen two picks ahead of Gary at No. 10 overall by Pittsburgh, who traded up for him.


Gary was projected earlier in the pre-draft process as a top 10 pick, but seeing his teammate’s stock fall a bit due to his low sack numbers and a reported shoulder injury, Bush said he thought Gary should be taken in the draft ahead of him.

In a conference call with Green Bay media, Gary said his shoulder is “110 percent” and would not need surgery. He pointed to his 26 reps at 225 pounds on the bench press at the combine as evidence of his shoulder’s health.

Hueber said the Packers have had Gary on their radar “since the day he stepped on campus.” They interviewed him at the combine and came away believing he’s a sharp, disruptive player with a passion for the game.

“I think he’s a guy who’s going to attack this,” Hueber said. “I think he’s going to take it to heart. I think it’s important to him, and because of that, the athleticism and all that is going to shine through.”

[Bretsky]

Anybody drinking the Gary Kool Aide ???

[pbmax]

Anybody drinking the Gary Kool Aide ???

I kinda like having no expectations of him. But other than that, not really.

[Joemailman]

Anybody drinking the Gary Kool Aide ???

More of a wait and see. I think the Packers will use him a bit differently than Michigan did, so hard to project.

[Fritz]

Was Gary hurt most of his career ? Athletically he is incredibly gifted. Harv noted his issue was not motivation. He wasn't even their best rusher and at some key plays he was riding the sideline.

What was the reasoning for the lack of production (asking this seriously if anybody knows) ?


I was talking to my buddy on the phone tonight, and as the Packers' pick approached, we were so geeked. Everything was falling perfectly. There were still two qb's on the board if someone wanted to move up, so maybe Green Bay could move down a few spots, get an extra pick, still get a great player. Not a single offensive lineman had been taken - lots of great choices. Sweat, Burns, the Clemson d-lineman, offensive tackle of your choice - what a great selection! We were stoked.

Then the pick came in - Rashan Gary. I threw up in my mouth and started crying at the same time. It was about the only shitty move they could've made, and they made it.

What a shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty pick.

Gary will be injured and ineffective. Mark my words. He was hyped beyond belief at Michigan, but you won't see highlights of him against Ohio State or against a bowl opponent - because there are none. Dude disappeared against good competition.

Gutekunst sucks. What the fuck. I am disgusted.

[pbmax]

I was talking to my buddy on the phone tonight, and as the Packers' pick approached, we were so geeked. Everything was falling perfectly. There were still two qb's on the board if someone wanted to move up, so maybe Green Bay could move down a few spots, get an extra pick, still get a great player. Not a single offensive lineman had been taken - lots of great choices. Sweat, Burns, the Clemson d-lineman, offensive tackle of your choice - what a great selection! We were stoked.

Then the pick came in - Rashan Gary. I threw up in my mouth and started crying at the same time. It was about the only shitty move they could've made, and they made it.

What a shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty pick.

Gary will be injured and ineffective. Mark my words. He was hyped beyond belief at Michigan, but you won't see highlights of him against Ohio State or against a bowl opponent - because there are none. Dude disappeared against good competition.

Gutekunst sucks. What the fuck. I am disgusted.


Its going to be OK Fritz. :D

[Fritz]

I hate this pick, PB. It's Justin Harrell 2.0.

I feel like we're going back to the dark days of the 70's. Gutekunst blew this round, badly.

[Bretsky]

More of a wait and see. I think the Packers will use him a bit differently than Michigan did, so hard to project.


I'm about asking for opinions so I can be right or wrong and see who's on the train and who is off

Wait and see is not an option:))))

[Bretsky]

I was talking to my buddy on the phone tonight, and as the Packers' pick approached, we were so geeked. Everything was falling perfectly. There were still two qb's on the board if someone wanted to move up, so maybe Green Bay could move down a few spots, get an extra pick, still get a great player. Not a single offensive lineman had been taken - lots of great choices. Sweat, Burns, the Clemson d-lineman, offensive tackle of your choice - what a great selection! We were stoked.

Then the pick came in - Rashan Gary. I threw up in my mouth and started crying at the same time. It was about the only shitty move they could've made, and they made it.

What a shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty pick.

Gary will be injured and ineffective. Mark my words. He was hyped beyond belief at Michigan, but you won't see highlights of him against Ohio State or against a bowl opponent - because there are none. Dude disappeared against good competition.

Gutekunst sucks. What the fuck. I am disgusted.



Hey Fritz................do you live in the Michigan area so you have watched this dude plenty ?

I loved Bush . Would you have blessed Bush as our #12


We took this guy over some elite OT's. He better be dam dam good or this is a m'ther of f'ck ups

[texaspackerbacker]

My first thought about Gary was, damn, another guy who is better suited to 4-3/another Datone Jones or Nick Perry. My second thought was, why the hell do we need an edge rusher after picking up the two Smiths as FAs? There's also the fact that he under-achieved in college.

Despite all that, though, I'm guardedly optimistic about him. He was athletic enough to be the #1 recruit in the country coming out of high school - way more potential that Datone or Perry. And as has been said, his under-achieving may have been caused by injuries.

Contrary to what some have said, I would say the Packers do NOT have a lot of needs. They are solid just about everywhere except ILB and O Line and Safety. There were no ILBs left at #12 with the Devins gone; There was no Safety deserving to be picked that high; And as I have said several times, top O Linemen in college are a risk, as they don't often translate to be great pro players.

[Joemailman]

http://draftanalyst.com/rashan-gary


Pos:
Explosive pass-rushing defensive end with terrific size, growth potential and upside. Fires off the snap with an explosive first step, quickly changes direction and shows speed to every area of the field. Easily alters his angle of attack, displays outstanding movement skills and gets a lot of force going up the field. Disruptive edge rusher who shows speed off the corner and a closing burst. Fast in lateral pursuit, chases the action hard and plays low to the ground with excellent pad level. Effective out of a three-point stance and occasionally when lined up over tackle.
Neg:
Lacks bulk and gets easily outpositioned from the action by blocks. Can be a liability against the run. Struggled with a shoulder injury in 2018.
Analysis:
Gary is a tremendous defensive end prospect who will have opportunities in certain 3-4 alignments. He's fast, athletic and intense and should only improve as he physically matures.

Some of these scouting reports are more positive than I wold have thought. Hopefully that shoulder won't be an issue in the future, because I have a feeling it may have affected his production in 2018.

[MadScientist]

Ugh. I came in late and missed watching the draft. Glad I did since this is a huge disappointment. Shoulder injuries are bad news, since they tend not to heal very well, with or without injury. I hope he proves me wrong, but this guy has bust written all over him.

[George Cumby]

Fritz nailed it on the bum Ted drafted out of MSU. The kid who had a great first step against Big 10 competition, against the NFL, not so much.

I'll take Fritz's word this is a bad pick.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

At least Gary ain’t fat. For a moment, I thought I was gonna have to boycott my beloved Pack.

[wist43]

I'll be shocked if we even see him play much...

Always hurt and no production in college... fully expect that will be tag line to his pro career.as well.

Terrible pick... just a disaster.

[mission]

This was pretty much the *only* guy I didn't want. I was begging for Devin Bush and I almost wanted to cry when the Steelers traded up to get him... then with the Gary call... I just... I was stunned. Ugh.

The only hope is that he was either not producing due to scheme or that if Pettine can get 10 sacks out of Fackrell then maybe he can work his magic with this guy. Just seems like so many IFs; there shouldn't be IFs at #12 in the first damn round.

[Deputy Nutz]

Fuck, you guys act like the sky has collapsed and Aaron Rodgers has finally shaved his beard and come out of the closet.

[Deputy Nutz]

6. Rashan Gary DE Michigan - Gary has all the physical traits you look for in a defensive end and then more. His biggest question mark during the draft process is his lack of production on film. He might have been playing out of position as a DT, but for the number 1 rated high school player you wouldn't think it would slow his production that much. His motor has serious question marks, but his ability and potential are sky high.

I had Gary as my number 6 edge rusher. My comments on him are just about par with the rest of the speculation. I don't think the Gary is going to kill you. He might not be a double digit sack guy, but I don't think he is going to get steam rolled and lay down and die. He has too good of athleticism to do that. The guy is a physical freak and I don't think he is a weight room work out warrior type guy either.

My question is where do you play him? Where is he the most comfortable and if he is comfortable in a 2 point stance coming off the edge can you play him there full time?

The pick has been made, you all will have to learn to love him and then wait for him to break your heart.

[bobblehead]

Was Gary hurt most of his career ? Athletically he is incredibly gifted. Harv noted his issue was not motivation. He wasn't even their best rusher and at some key plays he was riding the sideline.

What was the reasoning for the lack of production (asking this seriously if anybody knows) ?

I kind of look at it this way. Look at who we signed at OLB. Physically Gary is built about the same, but much more athletic. Neither of the smiths had the best stats either. Gutes has a type. Gary fits it. Someone put the ht/weight of both smiths and Gary in a thread somewhere...might even be this one. Very close. As I have been saying. If you are as true to your convictions as Gutes seems to be....you better be right. TT usually was. Gutes better be.

[bobblehead]

Anybody drinking the Gary Kool Aide ???

I'm not, but maybe you should be. We got a faster bigger stronger TJ Watt. I am seeing Gutes vision. Not sure I love it, but he was right about Alexander so I'm giving a few years before I call for his head. I am more upset about trading up for Savage...the pick he really better crush. Gary, Z and preston are all guys who affect a game without filling up the stat sheet. He has a type.

[bobblehead]

Hey Fritz................do you live in the Michigan area so you have watched this dude plenty ?

I loved Bush . Would you have blessed Bush as our #12


We took this guy over some elite OT's. He better be dam dam good or this is a m'ther of f'ck ups

There is only one elite OT in this draft. Dillard. We will be glad we didn't take any of the others.

[bobblehead]

I had Gary as my number 6 edge rusher. My comments on him are just about par with the rest of the speculation. I don't think the Gary is going to kill you. He might not be a double digit sack guy, but I don't think he is going to get steam rolled and lay down and die. He has too good of athleticism to do that. The guy is a physical freak and I don't think he is a weight room work out warrior type guy either.

My question is where do you play him? Where is he the most comfortable and if he is comfortable in a 2 point stance coming off the edge can you play him there full time?

The pick has been made, you all will have to learn to love him and then wait for him to break your heart.

This is also key. Given all the talk around him, the thing that gives me the most optimism is that he has a lot of room to improve his already ridiculous athleticism. The big question will be, did you just draft Giannis, or Ben Simmons. One takes his job seriously, the other thinks he has nothing left to prove.

[mraynrand]

The Gary hate puzzles me. Dude is a junior. I get the concern, just not the hate. Honestly, I'm more concerned about the uncontrollable weeping after the pick. I always worry about guys who appear to think they've arrived when they get selected. We'll know soon enough...

Woodplank will be comparing Gary and Sweat's careers, as I suspect a lot of different fans of various teams will be doing. Football success ultimately boils down to who has the most heart.

[mraynrand]

The guy is a physical freak and I don't think he is a weight room work out warrior type guy either.

No sweat equity!

[Joemailman]

Watching film of Gary, I see him doing things that open up things for others to make plays. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlgfLryOGEgI think that's why Devin Bush talks so highly of him.

I think Pettine will want him to be less of a read and react guy, and be more aggressive. If he can make that adjustment, his athleticism could show up more than it did at Michigan.

[esoxx]

Anybody drinking the Gary Kool Aide ???

Slurp!

[pbmax]

I kind of look at it this way. Look at who we signed at OLB. Physically Gary is built about the same, but much more athletic. Neither of the smiths had the best stats either. Gutes has a type. Gary fits it. Someone put the ht/weight of both smiths and Gary in a thread somewhere...might even be this one. Very close. As I have been saying. If you are as true to your convictions as Gutes seems to be....you better be right. TT usually was. Gutes better be.

I think Pettine has a type and Gutes has decided after bad fits and scheme mismatches between Ted and Dom, he is going another way. Could also be Murphy insisting on taking the coaches shopping list seriously.

I too am worried mainly because Nutz is worried (tape) and Fritz is worried (he's not joking, he has watched Michigan and he was right about Jerel W) and the well established lack of 2018 production. I get the traits but can't see this as a value pick.

But here is the idea that I will latch onto when I launch a 2020 thread about Gary not being a bust yet.

Pass rush has to be more than a one person game. With Clay at his prime, he needed help from people either collapsing the pocket or moving the QB off his mark. You have to. Even Von Miller benefits when the middle of the pocket is muddled. Clay was best when either Raji, Jenkins, Howard Green or Perry were being pests or getting him one on one somewhere while moving.

Forget the 1st round double digit sack guy target. If he is steady against the run (PFF said he improved each year) and can provide some push and move the pocket or QB, it will help. 6-8 sacks and a boatload of hits or pressures with 2 other guys doing the same will work. Packers problem last year was not sack totals, it was consistent pressure. I think this guy's numbers for pressures looks much better than his sack total.

[Fritz]

Yeah, I watched some of Gary's work. Good luck finding any highlights of him in big games.

Green Bay needs playmakers, not guys who eat blockers for other guys (they have undrafted guys who can do that), or guys who almost get there, or guys who can jump really high and lift a lot of weight but can't sack the quarterback.

At that moment in the draft, only one offensive lineman had been selected. Gutekunst had his choice of top, top tackles to protect his franchise QB. He had Burns sitting there. That Clemson d-lineman, can't remember his name. And Sweat, who was downgraded because his production wasn't so great, yet produced more than Gary. Gutekunst maybe could've traded down, still gotten a premier player.

But no. He picks a guy who has freakish combine numbers, which, if you won games for having great combine numbers, would be great. But you win with players who make plays. Gary doesn't make plays. Period. I like Chase Winovich better than Gary - you could pick him up later in the draft and have a better football player.

And now we find out that the Packers are going to try to turn him into an OLB. The first articles on JSO were listing Gary as a DE; suddenly, this morning, he's listed as OLB. Great. Wonderful. Another project - and you spent the twelfth overall pick on that?

In one sense, you know who he reminds me of? BJ Raji. And the similarity is that both are smart dudes who are thinking in terms of career. Gary, like Raji, is not a guy who loves, loves, loves football. Gary is not Chase Winovich. Or Devin Bush. He doesn't eat, sleep, dream football. He sees it as a business, as a way to make a lot of money. I would not be surprised, at all, if he pulls a Raji and retires at a young age. Especially once it becomes clear he's not going to develop into JJ Watt, but instead will be the next Mike Neal or Dante Jones.

Of course I'd love to be wrong. Because I want the Packers to win. I'd love for Gary to be great. But I think he will not be, not even close.

I think Gutekunst has taken two very big gambles in this first round. If Savage does not turn out to be head-and-shoulders above Thornhill, Adderly, and Gardner-Thompson, then it's a botched pick along the lines of Jason Spriggs.

Gute better be right on these, or if not, he'd better find a David Bahktieri or Mike Daniels in the fourth round to make up for it. Oh, wait. He doesn't have any fourth round picks. He traded not one, but two, away.

Huge, huge gambles. Do I hope they pay off? Of course. Do I think they will? Gary, no way. Savage, I don't know enough to even say, though I don't like Gute seeming to panic and moving up like he did. Savage was an expensive acquisition.

[Deputy Nutz]

Gary got a 9 on his Wonderlic.

[Fritz]

Listen to the guy talk. He's pretty articulate. He sees this not as his passion; it's a career, a tool he can use to get wealth. And I don't blame him for that. But it's a trait that can keep a player from playing for a long time because they're conscious of the deleterious effects the game has on the player's health. That's what happened to Raji, and I would not be surprised if Gary has already mapped out a business plan for after football. That's great for him as an individual, but it won't make him likely to sacrifice his body for the good of the cause. I think that's why Clinton-Dix didn't want to stick his nose into plays - he knows the risks.

Nutz, you said, I think, that you had him rated as the sixth best pass rusher? I'm assuming the five in front of him were not all drafted by the #12 pick, right?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good call by Nutz on Ferrell. Nutz had Burns higher, but I'm not sure he has the size that Pettine likes at OLB. He also had Sweat higher, but we have no idea how the whole heart condition played into his fall.

[Fritz]

From what I'm reading, Harv, it's not the heart thing that dropped Sweat, it was "character concerns." Personally, I think maybe this team could use a slightly psycho dude. But then again, maybe it's so bad the Packers didn't want to deal with possible outside repercussions. Not sure.

[Carolina_Packer]

I wonder if there is a way to research how teams typically game planned for Gary. What were the percentages of one on ones, double teams, etc. Some guys don't have gaudy stats, but they free up other guys to make plays because of the disruption they cause. I don't know if that's charitable, but it might possibly explain some of his perceived lack of production.

[mraynrand]

Good call by Nutz on Ferrell. Nutz had Burns higher, but I'm not sure he has the size that Pettine likes at OLB. He also had Sweat higher, but we have no idea how the whole heart condition played into his fall.

There was some report that his "heart wall was actually thicker" than originally believed. I have no idea what these team people are looking at; almost wonder if the whole thing wasn't concocted by someone trying to get him to drop.

[Fritz]

I wonder if there is a way to research how teams typically game planned for Gary. What were the percentages of one on ones, double teams, etc. Some guys don't have gaudy stats, but they free up other guys to make plays because of the disruption they cause. I don't know if that's charitable, but it might possibly explain some of his perceived lack of production.

That is charitable. Do you really draft a guy #12 overall because he can eat up blockers? Man, the Packers already have some undrafted guys who seem pretty capable of that, don't they? Couldn't you do better with the #12 overall pick than that? This pick is very . . . AJ Hawkish. And that's being charitable.

[jklowan]

Or those hubbel glasses he was wearing, maybe the dude just needed glasses last year and his problems were due to poor vision

[call_me_ishmael]

That is charitable. Do you really draft a guy #12 overall because he can eat up blockers? Man, the Packers already have some undrafted guys who seem pretty capable of that, don't they? Couldn't you do better with the #12 overall pick than that? This pick is very . . . AJ Hawkish. And that's being charitable.

But his numbers on paper are nearly identical to Jadeveon Clowney's athleticism and their production their junior years was nearly identical. Jadeveon is getting a max contract. I haven't seen this dude play much, and I know you have, but I do have to wonder if there's not more to the story here.

Part of me thinks if this dude took an RBs head off on a blown up play everybody would be cheering this one.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is also key. Given all the talk around him, the thing that gives me the most optimism is that he has a lot of room to improve his already ridiculous athleticism. The big question will be, did you just draft Giannis, or Ben Simmons. One takes his job seriously, the other thinks he has nothing left to prove.

I'm sorry but this is absurd. Ben Simmons is 10x the player in year 2 that Giannis was. My question for this dude is positional fit and if he is really a 4-3 DE like Mike Neal. I could easily see them asking him to cut a bit of weight to be an OLB, or bulk up a hair and be JJ Watt at DE. Right now he's sort of in the middle.

[wist43]

Gary's 2019 stat line...

7 Games Played
16 tackles
2 TFL
1.5 sacks

[mraynrand]

My question for this dude is positional fit and if he is really a 4-3 DE like Mike Neal. I could easily see them asking him to cut a bit of weight to be an OLB, or bulk up a hair and be JJ Watt at DE. Right now he's sort of in the middle.

Gute was saying they would even move him inside. I think they believe he has the athleticism to rush from anywhere, but that he will be getting upfield/rushing the passer. It's hard for me to see him as anything close to a Neal type no matter where they line him up.

[mraynrand]

Gary's 2019 stat line...

7 Games Played
16 tackles
2 TFL
1.5 sacks


This seems like an incomplete view of the guy, statistically.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They're gonna coach-up Gary to greatness. :cry:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=165&v=VropL2pBu-0

[pbmax]

There was some report that his "heart wall was actually thicker" than originally believed. I have no idea what these team people are looking at; almost wonder if the whole thing wasn't concocted by someone trying to get him to drop.

There was a late report about the combine medical leak being wrong and that teams were clearing him. Was that Gary's shoulder or Sweat's heart, anyone remember?

[Joemailman]

Gary's 2019 stat line...

7 Games Played
16 tackles
2 TFL
1.5 sacks

Not sure where those stats are from:

http://statsarchive.ath.umich.edu/VS-Football/cmaster.php?pkey=2032

[pbmax]

CFB Stats agrees with Joe.



Tack Def Fumb
Year School Conf Class Pos G Solo Ast Tot Loss Sk Int Yds Avg TD PD FR Yds TD FF
*2016 Michigan Big Ten FR DE 12 12 11 23 5.0 0.5 0 0 0 0 0 0
*2017 Michigan Big Ten SO DL 13 25 33 58 11.5 5.5 0 0 0 0 0 1
*2018 Michigan Big Ten JR DL 9 20 18 38 6.5 3.5 0 0 0 0 0 0
Career Michigan 57 62 119 23.0 9.5 0 0 0 0 0 1


Provided by CFB at Sports Reference (https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): View Original Table (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/rashan-gary-1.html?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#defense)
Generated 4/26/2019.

[hoosier]

From what I'm reading, Harv, it's not the heart thing that dropped Sweat, it was "character concerns." Personally, I think maybe this team could use a slightly psycho dude. But then again, maybe it's so bad the Packers didn't want to deal with possible outside repercussions. Not sure.

There is a very thin line (less than 2cm) between a guy who puts all his heart into it and a guy who is slightly psycho.

[mraynrand]

There was a late report about the combine medical leak being wrong and that teams were clearing him. Was that Gary's shoulder or Sweat's heart, anyone remember?

I think this was the heart. That the combine eval said his heart was 'thinner' however the hell they came up with that. If they did a bunch of scans, then their report should also point out that his cancer risk has gone up. :roll:

[mraynrand]

There is a very thin line (less than 2cm) between a guy who puts all his heart into it and a guy who is slightly psycho.

Remembrane who you're talking about.

[wist43]

Not sure where those stats are from:

http://statsarchive.ath.umich.edu/VS-Football/cmaster.php?pkey=2032

They're from the future... 2019

[mraynrand]

Not sure where those stats are from:

http://statsarchive.ath.umich.edu/VS-Football/cmaster.php?pkey=2032

They are the 2019 stats. For some reason I don't remember seeing Gary playing in 7 bowl games.

[mraynrand]

They're from the future... 2019

Why you're nothing but a fraud! You're not even a cripple!

[pbmax]

wist is making a killing on his Daily Fantasy/psychic 800 hotline though.

"Select Adam Wainwright and all the Yankee hitters you can afford. And this week is not a good week for PowerBall."

[mraynrand]

wist is making a killing on his Daily Fantasy/psychic 800 hotline though.

"Select Adam Wainwright and all the Yankee hitters you can afford. And this week is not a good week for PowerBall."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRIHLq7OrFg

[RashanGary]

I just watched a full Gary game vs Ohio State. It’s weird watching him because he plays like a defensive tackle but look like a defensive end and runs like a linebacker. He was so wound up, it was almost confusing.

The good:
Anchors down like a lineman. Hard to move
Explodes off blocks to track the call carrier
Stayed in his gaps and didn’t give up contain
Moves down the line strangly fast. Im not used to seeing a lineman move like that
Violent and aggressive with his hands

The bad:
Only won one pass rush with pure speed
Even though he has such a violent first punch, didn’t have a go to swim or rip after



I’ve never watched a player quite like Gary. It will be interesting to see if Pettine and company can teach him to swim or rip. He’s a plus run defender on day 1. A rare run defender on day 1. He needs to develop a couple go to pass rush moves though.

[pbmax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6AV60zXTeE

[pbmax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twfQJzxSpuE

[pbmax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P_ki4Y0K2k

[pbmax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7QGxHPcyM8

[pbmax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxROpe5p9gU

[bobblehead]

Yeah, I watched some of Gary's work. Good luck finding any highlights of him in big games.

Green Bay needs playmakers, not guys who eat blockers for other guys (they have undrafted guys who can do that), or guys who almost get there, or guys who can jump really high and lift a lot of weight but can't sack the quarterback.

At that moment in the draft, only one offensive lineman had been selected. Gutekunst had his choice of top, top tackles to protect his franchise QB. He had Burns sitting there. That Clemson d-lineman, can't remember his name. And Sweat, who was downgraded because his production wasn't so great, yet produced more than Gary. Gutekunst maybe could've traded down, still gotten a premier player.

But no. He picks a guy who has freakish combine numbers, which, if you won games for having great combine numbers, would be great. But you win with players who make plays. Gary doesn't make plays. Period. I like Chase Winovich better than Gary - you could pick him up later in the draft and have a better football player.

And now we find out that the Packers are going to try to turn him into an OLB. The first articles on JSO were listing Gary as a DE; suddenly, this morning, he's listed as OLB. Great. Wonderful. Another project - and you spent the twelfth overall pick on that?

In one sense, you know who he reminds me of? BJ Raji. And the similarity is that both are smart dudes who are thinking in terms of career. Gary, like Raji, is not a guy who loves, loves, loves football. Gary is not Chase Winovich. Or Devin Bush. He doesn't eat, sleep, dream football. He sees it as a business, as a way to make a lot of money. I would not be surprised, at all, if he pulls a Raji and retires at a young age. Especially once it becomes clear he's not going to develop into JJ Watt, but instead will be the next Mike Neal or Dante Jones.

Of course I'd love to be wrong. Because I want the Packers to win. I'd love for Gary to be great. But I think he will not be, not even close.

I think Gutekunst has taken two very big gambles in this first round. If Savage does not turn out to be head-and-shoulders above Thornhill, Adderly, and Gardner-Thompson, then it's a botched pick along the lines of Jason Spriggs.

Gute better be right on these, or if not, he'd better find a David Bahktieri or Mike Daniels in the fourth round to make up for it. Oh, wait. He doesn't have any fourth round picks. He traded not one, but two, away.

Huge, huge gambles. Do I hope they pay off? Of course. Do I think they will? Gary, no way. Savage, I don't know enough to even say, though I don't like Gute seeming to panic and moving up like he did. Savage was an expensive acquisition.

This kind of sums it up. Gimme football players like Winovich and put them in the gym. Get them bigger stronger and faster and the love of the game prevails. Gimme a freak who doesn't care and you get Ben Simmons.

I also hope that Gary is a hit at OLB and Savage is the next Nick Collins, but when you pick 12 and then give up 2 4ths as I have said over and over...you better be right. TT gambled in the first round 2x. Once he got Rodgers when QB was not on the list of things to draft. The other time he moved up and got Clay Mathews. He made some mistakes with guys who got injury shortened in sherrod and Harrell, but you really can't ever see that coming.

[Fritz]

Gute was saying they would even move him inside. I think they believe he has the athleticism to rush from anywhere, but that he will be getting upfield/rushing the passer. It's hard for me to see him as anything close to a Neal type no matter where they line him up.

You don't think he'll even be as good as Mike Neal, huh?

[Gotarace]

Gary looks like he has a great first hand punch but doesn't use that punch to clear off of the offensive lineman...like he attacks and stops. As fast as he is you would think the separation caused by that punch would clear him off the lineman much better.

[Fritz]

I just watched a full Gary game vs Ohio State. It’s weird watching him because he plays like a defensive tackle but look like a defensive end and runs like a linebacker. He was so wound up, it was almost confusing.

The good:
Anchors down like a lineman. Hard to move
Explodes off blocks to track the call carrier
Stayed in his gaps and didn’t give up contain
Moves down the line strangly fast. Im not used to seeing a lineman move like that
Violent and aggressive with his hands

The bad:
Only won one pass rush with pure speed
Even though he has such a violent first punch, didn’t have a go to swim or rip after



I’ve never watched a player quite like Gary. It will be interesting to see if Pettine and company can teach him to swim or rip. He’s a plus run defender on day 1. A rare run defender on day 1. He needs to develop a couple go to pass rush moves though.

How do you say he was even playing the run well? We must be watching different video. He was either blocked out of the play or overrunning it. Dude looked like a JAG in the film I watched.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This kind of sums it up. Gimme football players like Winovich and put them in the gym. Get them bigger stronger and faster and the love of the game prevails. Gimme a freak who doesn't care and you get Ben Simmons.

I also hope that Gary is a hit at OLB and Savage is the next Nick Collins, but when you pick 12 and then give up 2 4ths as I have said over and over...you better be right. TT gambled in the first round 2x. Once he got Rodgers when QB was not on the list of things to draft. The other time he moved up and got Clay Mathews. He made some mistakes with guys who got injury shortened in sherrod and Harrell, but you really can't ever see that coming.

Why do people think he doesn't care? I've read lots of reports about how hard he works.

[hoosier]

I think this was the heart. That the combine eval said his heart was 'thinner' however the hell they came up with that. If they did a bunch of scans, then their report should also point out that his cancer risk has gone up. :roll:

Heart wall measurements are done by echo, not CT.

[3irty1]

Why do people think he doesn't care? I've read lots of reports about how hard he works.

Working hard and loving football to the point obsession are not precisely the same thing. You can take one look at a guy like Gary and tell he works hard. I too would like to know exactly how good he wants to be because he can be as good as he wants.

[pbmax]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2019/04/26/dougherty-packers-spring-surprises-further-bolstering-defense/3578261002/


“Production is just the way you look at it, right?” Gutekunst said. “If you watch the tape and you look at some of the different kind of (analytics) stats, he affected the passer. He affected the game, and at times he wrecked it. Certainly he is a premier athlete. He has an exceptional motor on the field. Really since February, we really locked in on him.”


“These are big men with length and power and speed,” Gutekunst said. “I felt we needed to get bigger in the front, and we have. And we needed to get more explosive in the front, and I think we have. Not a coincidence. Those are the body types we’re looking for.”

[Deputy Nutz]

Nutz, you said, I think, that you had him rated as the sixth best pass rusher? I'm assuming the five in front of him were not all drafted by the #12 pick, right?

Sweat and Burns were the two that were higher than Gary and went after the 12th pick. Gary was the biggest edge player I had on my list.

[Spaulding]

Will admit I was less than impressed initially with the pick but a Michigan fan reminded me of Frank Clark and how he ended up as a stud.

Anyways the fan/friend believes Gary to have a better motor and to have faced more focus from opposing offenses than Clark did.

Stats wise, Clark evidently only put up 11.5 sacks in his 3+ years at Michigan with 9.5 coming his final two years (where Gary put up 9 in his last two years).

Just saying for those of you on the ledge that there might be reason for some hope.

[RashanGary]

Gary didn’t play in a gap. He played 6 tech. Hard to say what he’s gonna look like shooting gaps because he just didn’t do it. He stood up a lineman. Similar to what a nose 0-tech does. Time will tell.

[pbmax]

Gary didn’t play in a gap. He played 6 tech. Hard to say what he’s gonna look like shooting gaps because he just didn’t do it. He stood up a lineman. Similar to what a nose 0-tech does. Time will tell.

6 tech is over the TE. He was a 3 point stance SOLB. He was a power end, not to be confused with a power bottom.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/695702/dtechniquealignments_medium.gif

[Teamcheez1]

Will admit I was less than impressed initially with the pick but a Michigan fan reminded me of Frank Clark and how he ended up as a stud.

Anyways the fan/friend believes Gary to have a better motor and to have faced more focus from opposing offenses than Clark did.

Stats wise, Clark evidently only put up 11.5 sacks in his 3+ years at Michigan with 9.5 coming his final two years (where Gary put up 9 in his last two years).

Just saying for those of you on the ledge that there might be reason for some hope.

I was on the ledge, then I realized that we were headed into the weekend and I had plenty of cold beer left. No reason to end things early.

[Deputy Nutz]

Playing as the strong side end, or power end in the 6 tech means you are always getting chipped and picked up by the tackle. It's one of the more difficult positions to play because you are signaling with your alignment that you command a double team and you are usually pass rushing into 600 pounds of guard and tackle after getting chipped by the tight end. Michigan also stunted him quite a bit as well as teams were worried it usually worked as two linemen stayed with Gary.

He can run on film, all of those combine numbers do show up on film. I think the move to outside linebacker will benefit him more than hinder his growth. I think he will be a bit better in space.

[George Cumby]

Watching the Ohio state video Pb posted, he was getting doubled and chipped left and right. The first tackle for a loss he showed some really nifty feet. He looks pretty strong

[pbmax]

Here are some clips, both positive and negative. Helps sort the critique out a bit.

https://twitter.com/RossUglem/status/1121783195144421377

[mraynrand]

Heart wall measurements are done by echo, not CT.

true enough. note eye rolls. They do echo and tell you all sorts of things about wall thickness, etc., then do scans to tell you that Rodgers is 'healed enough to play.' Last time I relied on 'super doppler' for a weather report I got all wet. Maybe I misinterpreted the pixel density. :roll:

[Fritz]

I was just listening to Detroit sports radio, and the fans here are laughing at the Packers for picking Gary. Here's one exchange between a caller and the talk show host, and this about sums it up:

Caller: "I'm really glad the Packers picked Gary. Now when we play them, we know to run right at whatever side Gary's playing, and Stafford doesn't have to worry about a pass rush from that side when it's a pass."

Host: "Yeah, I'm puzzled by that pick. I think the Packers got fooled by Gary's measurables. They got an athlete, not a football player."

I'm trying to take some comfort in Nutz's comment that Gary will be better playing in space, that the guy was always double-teamed, but man, in the end we're trying to find excuses for the #12 overall pick lacking production in his college career.

It's just a crummy pick. I predict he'll be banged up all the time.

Plus, there's his mentality. He's got the mind of a businessman, not a football player. And good for him. But I just don't think he's got the mental makeup to take advantage of all those measurables he has. He didn't at Michigan.

[denverYooper]

I was just listening to Detroit sports radio, and the fans here are laughing at the Packers for picking Gary. Here's one exchange between a caller and the talk show host, and this about sums it up:

Caller: "I'm really glad the Packers picked Gary. Now when we play them, we know to run right at whatever side Gary's playing, and Stafford doesn't have to worry about a pass rush from that side when it's a pass."

Host: "Yeah, I'm puzzled by that pick. I think the Packers got fooled by Gary's measurables. They got an athlete, not a football player."

I'm trying to take some comfort in Nutz's comment that Gary will be better playing in space, that the guy was always double-teamed, but man, in the end we're trying to find excuses for the #12 overall pick lacking production in his college career.

It's just a crummy pick. I predict he'll be banged up all the time.

Plus, there's his mentality. He's got the mind of a businessman, not a football player. And good for him. But I just don't think he's got the mental makeup to take advantage of all those measurables he has. He didn't at Michigan.

How do they feel about being the only team to draft a TE in the top ten for the second time in 5 years?

[bobblehead]

Why do people think he doesn't care? I've read lots of reports about how hard he works.

I'm not saying he doesn't. I can't know that. People suspect he doesn't because he didn't elevate to his talent.

[bobblehead]

Will admit I was less than impressed initially with the pick but a Michigan fan reminded me of Frank Clark and how he ended up as a stud.

Anyways the fan/friend believes Gary to have a better motor and to have faced more focus from opposing offenses than Clark did.

Stats wise, Clark evidently only put up 11.5 sacks in his 3+ years at Michigan with 9.5 coming his final two years (where Gary put up 9 in his last two years).

Just saying for those of you on the ledge that there might be reason for some hope.

I think the best reason for hope is Alexander. Gutes proved he evaluated well with that pick. It will take us awhile before we can give him a complete evaluation. TT never made us happy in the draft, yet there we were in the playoffs every year.

[mraynrand]

Caller: "I'm really glad the Packers picked Gary. Now when we play them, we know to run right at whatever side Gary's playing, and Stafford doesn't have to worry about a pass rush from that side when it's a pass."

To me, this is the final straw. When Caller comes out against Gary, you know things are bad.

Maybe he was referring to Gary, Indiana?

[Deputy Nutz]

I am not a Clay Matthews fan by any means and think he is the most overrated Packer of all time, but since the Packers have switched to an odd front he has been the gold standard for OLB in Green Bay. Matthews Ran a 4.67 forty, 23 reps in the bench, 35.5" vertical, a 6.90 three cone, and a 4.18 short shuttle all at 6'3" 240 pounds.

Compare Matthews numbers to Gary's and I would think people will see him more favorably as an outside linebacker. Gary ran a 4.58 forty, he had 26 reps in the bench, 38" vertical, and a 4.29 short shuttle, all at 6'5" 275 pounds.

Matthews was considered a one year wonder in college with mixed results. Some even considered him a work out warrior.

Rashan Gary much like Matthews will have a transition to OLB, but I think it will make him a better football player because he can run and cover a lot of field. I saw him run all over the field and chase as a defensive lineman. I think another comparison I can make is that they both had to improve their instincts and vision.

At the end of the draft the Packers job is to select the best football players and athletes with the most potential to better their football teams. Stats from college don't carry over to the NFL. Its fun to get so worked up about the draft, I do but it's not make or break for me who a team selects 4 months before the first game. I have an interest in scouting these players and how and where they are drafted.

If I was the GM of the Packers I would have most likely passed on Gary because of the shoulder issue, but the board really didn't play out the way I would have liked. I would have ended up taking an offensive tackle, or I would have tried to trade out of the pick. If the Packers didn't like the trade values I understand why they made the pick at 12.

[gbgary]

gary's supposedly versatile. hope he can stay healthy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

gary's supposedly versatile. hope he can stay healthy.

He has the frame to bulk up and play OT.


Don't like the pick and not letting this go.

[Tony Oday]

Where do our new Edge rushers fit after this draft? I personally would like one of them to play ILB, that would be great to have an athletic hard hitting ILB that can stay with TE.

If Lions Fans don't like him I think we may have a future Hall of Famer.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The defensive emphasis has a rebuilding smell to it. Maybe that is appropriate. The Packers needed to be an offensive juggernaut to win in recent years. How many seasons does Arod have left?

Change is bad.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Clay Matthews had 5.5 sacks in college. :)

[mraynrand]

The defensive emphasis has a rebuilding smell to it. Maybe that is appropriate. The Packers needed to be an offensive juggernaut to win in recent years. How many seasons does Arod have left?

Change is bad.

I dunno, the combination of veterans and a couple of draft picks has the feel of a reconstruction they expect to be ready this year.

What was bad on defense last year? Pass rush, Safeties, cover LB. Check, check, and ?

Should be a solid defense.

[Guiness]

Here are some clips, both positive and negative. Helps sort the critique out a bit.

https://twitter.com/RossUglem/status/1121783195144421377

One thing I notice in those clips is that he is often the last DL out of his stance. Time and again the rest of the DL are up and moving before he fires out. NFL offensive linemen will smoother him if that doesn't get fixed.

[wist43]

They said they're going to start Gary at LB... which is all well and good, except that Gary is a one-trick pony when it comes to pass rush, and he doesn't have the speed to threaten the edge.

He has no pass rush moves, no technique. NFL Tackles are.gonna swallow him up.

Pettine going to have to use him like Terrell Suggs, i.e. standing up and threatening gaps out of 3-3 and 2-4/5 alignments - which is what I've been wanting to see done for a while now.

That said, it still doesn't mitigate the fact that Gary really can't win much on his own.

Pettine may be able to get production out of him by scheming, but the point of being the 12th overall pick is - that should be able to win one-on-ones on his own; and Gary can't win those on his own.

[RashanGary]

One thing I like about Gary, I get the sense he’s a good person. The kind of good person who’s not taking performance enhancers. He’s just legitimately 280 lbs and jumps 38” That’s rare. Plus he played at a school and position where stats don’t blow up. I don’t think he’s scratched the surface of his potential yet.

[Bretsky]

Gary and a QB may have been the most popular poll choices for players to avoid

Gooter takes him and we try to find justifications.

Gary needs to be a Pro Bowler at pick 12; that is how I judge the quality of this pick going forward. We see guys all the time with elite talent who produce like Devin Bush. And then we see guys all the time with elite talent who underproduce. Up to this point Gary looks like Tarzan but his produces like Shary

Fritz to me is the best source in here; and it's a pretty dam bad sign that the Michigan fan freaks chuckle at our pick.

I'd go to bat for all my Dam Badgers. I want guys like D'Cota Dixon, Van Gengel, and David Edwards and others playing for GB

I'll miss those peckerheads. Michigan fans seem happy to see this guy go.

I hope Gooter is smarter than all of us and Gary becomes an all pro. That is how I'm measuring this pick

I hope Savage does too. I love Savage, but I'm not giving up two fourth round picks to move up when there are so many safeties and we have so many dam needs. But as a player, I love Savage.

[Fritz]

You know the apocalypse is upon us when Wist and I are in rock-solid agreement.

[Bretsky]

Wist was way the hell TOO happy the past couple months

I missed the Wist I used to know; he made me seem like a homer

Now my Wist is back; and you are right behind him :)))))

[Fritz]

This is a shift for me; I usually preach patience. And really, we don't know. Not even the GM's truly know, though I suppose they have access to more and maybe better info than we do as fans.

But I feel strongly that the flags on Rashan Gary were such that Gutekunst should've known better. I truly, truly don't understand what makes him think Pettine and company can somehow get the production out of this dude that no one at Michigan ever could. Not that I think Michigan is the greatest college program - it's not, and I don't think Harbaugh is much of a coach there - but they have had success coaching up defensive players in the past. But they couldn't get it done with Gary. And he's the kind of guy who is not a 100% eat/sleep/dream football. I believe he will not end up playing in a lot of games due to injuries, perceived or otherwise.

I'm feeling down about the Packers' future now. But I will buck up - why not, as I don't really know. I'm just a fan, spouting off. Though it is kinda fun.

[pbmax]

One thing I notice in those clips is that he is often the last DL out of his stance. Time and again the rest of the DL are up and moving before he fires out. NFL offensive linemen will smoother him if that doesn't get fixed.

Yep, that was the second thing that stood out to me. I don't know what he is watching out there.

First thing was the lack of a finishing step or bend around a corner. He's going need something. He has the quickness/speed to get the corner, but not the last move.

[mraynrand]

Maybe the NFL is moving to such a quick release offense that simple upfield pressure is what's needed. Often no time for that finishing move. The delayed get-off belies that though.

I suspect, if nothing else, Gary will weep often.

[Fritz]

As will we.

[pbmax]

Maybe the NFL is moving to such a quick release offense that simple upfield pressure is what's needed. Often no time for that finishing move. The delayed get-off belies that though.

I suspect, if nothing else, Gary will weep often.

He's going to be great at the end of game interviews after a close game. Just not sure how dirty his uniform will be.

[pbmax]

The after pick justifications roll on!

Tom Oates @TomOatesWSJ
No one in the NFL believes Gary would have been there at 30. Probably not 20.

Packer Report @PackerReport
100 percent he wasn't getting to 20. Not even close. I can say that with certainty.

[mraynrand]

He's going to be great at the end of game interviews after a close game. Just not sure how dirty his uniform will be.

https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/screenshot_2017-01-22_at_6.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=523

[mraynrand]

As will we.

Packerrats be like:

http://www.unbrandednews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/crying-jordan-mount-rushmore.jpg

[Fritz]

The after pick justifications roll on!

Tom Oates @TomOatesWSJ
No one in the NFL believes Gary would have been there at 30. Probably not 20.

Packer Report @PackerReport
100 percent he wasn't getting to 20. Not even close. I can say that with certainty.

Great, fine. I wish they would have chosen someone else, and let Gary get picked at #16 or whatever. Let him be someone else's bust.

[mraynrand]

Great, fine. I wish they would have chosen someone else, and let Gary get picked at #16 or whatever. Let him be someone else's bust.

It's like you dared me to post this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8HJsfuXwAUlTx0.jpg:large

[Fritz]

That dude on the right . . . man, his left eye sits about a half inch above his right. Freaky.

[bobblehead]

I kinda helped thread jack Sternberger's thread so I will paste this here:

I finally found one reason to have optimism for Gary. He is about 1/2 inch shorter than Jedeveon Clowney. He was 11 lbs heavier. His numbers across the board were almost identical.

Gary is a Freak and by all accounts does whatever is asked of him. We will see if our new OLB coach (who developed Ford and Houston in KC) is worth his salt.

[RashanGary]

I kinda helped thread jack Sternberger's thread so I will paste this here:

I finally found one reason to have optimism for Gary. He is about 1/2 inch shorter than Jedeveon Clowney. He was 11 lbs heavier. His numbers across the board were almost identical.

Gary is a Freak and by all accounts does whatever is asked of him. We will see if our new OLB coach (who developed Ford and Houston in KC) is worth his salt.

And when he went to Michigan he was a 280lb 18 year old who could run 4.6

You don’t get any indication that he’s on performance enhancers. He’s just bigger and faster and stronger than everyone else naturally. Plus he already plays the run like a beast. And Frank Clark played the same position at Michigan and the stats didn’t show up for Clark until the NFL. The coaches at Michigan loved him and he always did his job.

So he’s got a few things going for him. I hated the pick. But I hated the Matthews pick for the same reason.

Gute has to take big guys when he gets the chance. Sometimes you get a Harrell, other times you get a Kenny Clark. But you have to take those chances or you’ll never get the reward.

[Fritz]

And when he went to Michigan he was a 280lb 18 year old who could run 4.6

You don’t get any indication that he’s on performance enhancers. He’s just bigger and faster and stronger than everyone else naturally. Plus he already plays the run like a beast. And Frank Clark played the same position at Michigan and the stats didn’t show up for Clark until the NFL. The coaches at Michigan loved him and he always did his job.

So he’s got a few things going for him. I hated the pick. But I hated the Matthews pick for the same reason.

Gute has to take big guys when he gets the chance. Sometimes you get a Harrell, other times you get a Kenny Clark. But you have to take those chances or you’ll never get the reward.

He's not like Frank Clark. You could see Clark flash his skills at Michigan; it's just that the guy wasn't a great human being and he simply didn't want to bother to pretend to be a college student. Montez Sweat is more like Frank Clark than Rashan Gary is.

He also does not play the run like a beast. He's that guy who shows up right at the end of the play, running up just in time to see the opponent being tackled. Does he set a good edge? Maybe. But he also can be fooled with misdirection.

And that "he always did his job"? If you say that about a fourth round pick, that's cool. But you don't pick a guy at #12 because he did his job. You pick a guy there who showed mad skills. Gary has mad measureables but not mad skills.

[bobblehead]

I kinda helped thread jack Sternberger's thread so I will paste this here:

I finally found one reason to have optimism for Gary. He is about 1/2 inch shorter than Jedeveon Clowney. He was 11 lbs heavier. His numbers across the board were almost identical.

Gary is a Freak and by all accounts does whatever is asked of him. We will see if our new OLB coach (who developed Ford and Houston in KC) is worth his salt.

Stumbled across it:

Gary Clowney
HT 6-4 3/8 6-5 1/4
WT 277 266
ARM 34 1/8 34 1/2
40 4.58 4.53
VJ 38″ 37.5″
BJ 120″ 124″
3C 7.26 7.27
SS 4.29 4.43
BP 26 21

[esoxx]

You know the apocalypse is upon us when Wist and I are in rock-solid agreement.

You're also in rock-solid agreement with Tank.

Congratulations

[RashanGary]

And that "he always did his job"? If you say that about a fourth round pick, that's cool. But you don't pick a guy at #12 because he did his job. You pick a guy there who showed mad skills. Gary has mad measureables but not mad skills.

I get it. I didn’t like the pick either. I would have preferred Jeffrey Simmons. At least he’s proven great, just needs to recover. Chris Lindstrom is a sure bet. He went to Falcons two picks later. Gary is a rare physical specimen and had some other good qualities so I do understand the gamble.

[pbmax]

Stumbled across it:


Gary Clowney
HT 6-4 3/8 6-5 1/4
WT 277 266
ARM 34 1/8 34 1/2
40 4.58 4.53
VJ 38″ 37.5″
BJ 120″ 124″
3C 7.26 7.27
SS 4.29 4.43
BP 26 21




FIFY

[MadScientist]

Game tape still shows a lot more Jane than Tarzan. When I saw the comments from Gute that he was getting double and triple teamed, I thought maybe he would be ok. Then I watched the game film. He didn't get off the ball well, he wasn't doubled all that much. He didn't get home and didn't provide much pressure. Simply put, he doesn't make plays. He was a little better in 2017, but only a little. Maybe he can hold his own on first down in base, but that's about it. Waste of a high pick.

[mission]

I couldn't have been more upset when this pick was announced... I'm still not behind it fully. Like most of you, the question is "how can this guy produce in the NFL if he doesn't have the numbers in college?"
Wish I had the tweet, but there is actually a pretty strong list of pass rushing beasts over the years who had the same or worse college production. There are so many variables and the NFL is a different beast all together.

Plus, his work out buddies will be Daniels, Clark, Sackrell, Smith & Smith... ;)

I'm not completely doom and gloom anymore.. part of me thinks if they can get 10 sacks out of a guy like Fackrell, that they'll coach a good player out of this guy. Can't teach big and fast.

[RashanGary]

This is to help pull fritz out of his depression


https://youtu.be/NF0IWdfLRIY

[George Cumby]

I'm still seeing really quick feet.

[mraynrand]

This is to help pull fritz out of his depression

half of those QB hits would be 15 yarders in the NFL

[RashanGary]

half of those QB hits would be 15 yarders in the NFL

Shut up!!! :lol:

[mraynrand]

Shut up!!! :lol:

:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q58nTiZrJ0

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kind of an interesting comparison on Packers Wire between Gary and 4 time Pro Bowler Cameron Jordan of the Saints. Athletically and production wise, they are similar. Gary even mentioned that he studies Julius Peppers and Jordan the most in his conference call.

Jordan
6'4" 287, 35" arms, 4.78 40, 25 bench, 31" vert, 117" broad jump, 7.07 3 cone, 4.37 shuttle

College season highs
62 tackles, 12.5 tackles for loss, 6 sacks

Gary
6'4" 277, 34 1/8" arms, 4.58 40, 26 bench, 38" vert, 120" broad jump, 7.26 3 cone, 4.29 shuttle

College season highs
58 tackles, 11.5 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks

Let's hope he develops like Jordan did.

[wist43]

Ok, everybody calm the fuck down :whaa:

After a couple of mornings crying over my pancakes, I've come off of the ledge and decided to sit down and study the situation.

Firstly, I really didn't look at Gary much pre-draft b/c of all the negative talk surrounding him. That combined with his obvious lack of production, and one dimensional pass rush repitoire was enough for me to cast him aside without much thought.

Now, being forced to give it some thought and study... here is where I'm at on Gary post-draft, post-tears on pancakes, post-film study and listening to Gute's explanation.

I now believe Gary has a chance to be a player - but, he needs to develop. He is nowhere near a finished product in terms of being an NFL caliber pass rusher. Yet, as everyone acknowledges, he has the physical tools to be a stud.

His 2 biggest drawbacks as a passrusher are he doesn't have the pure speed/burst to beat NFL caliber OT's around the corner; and, he needs to develop both swim and rip techniques to get him past the blocker. As of now, he has no backup plan once stymied on his initial bull rush.

He uses his hands well, and has the strength and power to control the OL in front of him. This allows him to set the edge well, and back underneath in his pass rush.

Without better technique though, he will be limited.

I like his hustle, and he seems to be a good kid.

Gute said they are going to play him primarily standing up, so the possibilities are endless there. It sounds like Pettine will be employing a lot more 3-3 this year - which I've been beating the drum for for quite some time.

[Joemailman]

Ok, everybody calm the fuck down :whaa:

After a couple of mornings crying over my pancakes, I've come off of the ledge and decided to sit down and study the situation.

Firstly, I really didn't look at Gary much pre-draft b/c of all the negative talk surrounding him. That combined with his obvious lack of production, and one dimensional pass rush repitoire was enough for me to cast him aside without much thought.

Now, being forced to give it some thought and study... here is where I'm at on Gary post-draft, post-tears on pancakes, post-film study and listening to Gute's explanation.

I now believe Gary has a chance to be a player - but, he needs to develop. He is nowhere near a finished product in terms of being an NFL caliber pass rusher. Yet, as everyone acknowledges, he has the physical tools to be a stud.

His 2 biggest drawbacks as a passrusher are he doesn't have the pure speed/burst to beat NFL caliber OT's around the corner; and, he needs to develop both swim and rip techniques to get him past the blocker. As of now, he has no backup plan once stymied on his initial bull rush.

He uses his hands well, and has the strength and power to control the OL in front of him. This allows him to set the edge well, and back underneath in his pass rush.

Without better technique though, he will be limited.

I like his hustle, and he seems to be a good kid.

Gute said they are going to play him primarily standing up, so the possibilities are endless there. It sounds like Pettine will be employing a lot more 3-3 this year - which I've been beating the drum for for quite some time.

Now that you've come down off the ledge, can you get Fritz off the ledge?

[Bretsky]

Wisty has just lost his stones :)))

I do recall the quote being bookmarked .....something to the effect of he'll be out of the league within 3 years

[Bretsky]

Now that you've come down off the ledge, can you get Fritz off the ledge?


Fritz has watched him play and witnessed the overhype for four years in row. He's probably the best Gary source in here as he has seen and heard more about Gary than all of us combined. Just because Wist is trying to backtrack from his ex strong views doesn't mean Fritz will

[wist43]

Wisty has just lost his stones :)))

I do recall the quote being bookmarked .....something to the effect of he'll be out of the league within 3 years

Well, lol... I was weeping on my pancakes at the time, so cut me some slack :huh:

[wist43]

Now that you've come down off the ledge, can you get Fritz off the ledge?

Fritz said he's stayin out there a while to think about planetary alignment or some such shit... he was mumbling and drooling though, so I just left him to it :glug:

[wist43]

Fritz has watched him play and witnessed the overhype for four years in row. He's probably the best Gary source in here as he has seen and heard more about Gary than all of us combined. Just because Wist is trying to backtrack from his ex strong views doesn't mean Fritz will

Some rationalization involved in that backtracking, lol... but, truth be told, I decided to drink some koolaid, calmly watched all of Gute's pressers, and heard him out. Went back and looked at a lot more tape of Gary... I can honestly say now, that at least I see the rationale behind the pick, and think the kid has a chance.

Low floor, high ceiling... and not really sure what we have there.

[HarveyWallbangers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=0z3lMCGdpEc

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm excited about the pieces that Pettine can fit together. P. Smith, Clark, and Daniels are no slouches, but the chess pieces that are Z. Smith and Gary are going to be fun to watch. If Savage and Amos are as good as I think they'll be and King and Alexander can mostly stay healthy, there's no reason this defense shouldn't easily be in the top 10.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He had two 1 on 1 pass rush opportunities in the first game (Rutgers). The first three plays in the second game (Penn State) are funny. Starts at the 16:00 mark. Winovich cleaning up Gary's dirty work at 17:00 mark.

Guy doing the evaluation is a Lions fan who was pounding the table for the Lions to take Gary at #8.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Gute said they are going to play him primarily standing up, so the possibilities are endless there. It sounds like Pettine will be employing a lot more 3-3 this year - which I've been beating the drum for for quite some time.

You might get your wish. The guy in the video said Gary would be best in a 3-3-5 over.

[mraynrand]

I'm excited about the pieces that Pettine can fit together. P. Smith, Clark, and Daniels are no slouches, but the chess pieces that are Z. Smith and Gary are going to be fun to watch. If Savage and Amos are as good as I think they'll be and King and Alexander can mostly stay healthy, there's no reason this defense shouldn't easily be in the top 10.

yep. There's plenty of reasons to be optimistic about this defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Lions fan in that video also absolutely loved Savage. He had Gary ranked #8 as an overall prospect and Savage #17.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap_gwOgbDGU

[pbmax]

Gute said they are going to play him primarily standing up, so the possibilities are endless there. It sounds like Pettine will be employing a lot more 3-3 this year - which I've been beating the drum for for quite some time.

Where have you been? Pettine was playing 3-3-5 all last year when the down and distance might have allowed for a run.

[RashanGary]

https://youtu.be/0z3lMCGdpEc

[RashanGary]

That’s a really good cut up of Gary. Takes time to look at what’s actually happening. If you’re really curious about what Gary did on the field and want some commentary from someone who puts a lot of energy into evaluating talent, that’s worth a look

[wist43]

Where have you been? Pettine was playing 3-3-5 all last year when the down and distance might have allowed for a run.

I know he played it it some, and be honest I cant say how much b/c I didn't watch every game last year as my life has gotten too busy to keep up.

Gute has made some significant upgrades over the past 2 years though, and I think we're actually going to see a legitimate, upper tier defense next year.

If Gary can stay healthy, and improve his technique - 2 big ifs - our front 6/7 could actually be close to badass.

I love the Savage pick, and the Smith's and Amos were on my FA wishlist - so outside of the Gary curveball, I've pretty much gotten what I wanted out of this offseason; and, as I said, upon reflection and further study I get the Gary pick... I hope he works out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KhFmPap0WwM

18:25 mark

[mraynrand]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KhFmPap0WwM

18:25 mark

This guy had Savage going to the Patriots due to versatility. He did also have Julian Love from ND going in the first round (went in the fourth)...

But he made interesting points about Gary's fit in the Pettine defense. His fit for Fant in the Packer O applies to Sternberger.

[Deputy Nutz]

I was really surprised how some player completely fell in this draft. Look no further than DK Metcalf. The guys was the number 1 receiver on every big board from the pundits. He went towards the end of the second round. That was a huge free fall. Same can be said about Love, he was a top 5 corner pre-draft and he fell to the fourth round. Greedy Williams top 3 corner on every board dropped to the second round. Crazy stuff in this draft.

[Fritz]

Now that you've come down off the ledge, can you get Fritz off the ledge?

I'm afraid Fritz is still standing high above the ground, looking down, mere inches away from the edge of the building.

It's hard for me to say which players I like, as I do not watch film or read up on guys like Nutz or Wist or others. My experience is limited to what I see watching Michigan football. So had the Packers drafted Bush in the first round, or Winovich in the third, I'd have been fine with that, as they were playmakers in that defense.

I know people keep saying that Gary was limited because his role was to eat up blockers and so on, and that he was chipped by tight ends, but he was not recruited to Michigan as the nation's #1 defensive recruit so he could do those things - he was supposed to be a playmaker. He was not.

While I appreciate Justin Harrell's attempt to cheer me up (and I always, always appreciate his use of Phyllis George as his avatar), I will say, again, that those highlights come against the Rutgerses and the Indianas of the world. To paraphrase the old Lions coach Wayne Fontes, who for all his buffoonery had some good sound bites, big players make big plays in big games. Gary did not.

Maybe Harv and others are correct - he's not that different, statistically, from some great pass rushers who did not do a lot in college - Clowney, Mathews, et al. And maybe that does stem, as I suspect, from his business-like thinking. I believe he thinks of himself as a "brand," and so he might have been preparing for his pro career and not leaving all out there. In that line of thinking, I suppose he might now realize that in order to get that really big money (how much difference is the salary between a rookie taken in the top five versus the top fifteen, now that there's a rookie sal cap?) he'll have to produce, and he will suddenly begin to make plays. Maybe Nutz is correct that moving him to OLB will free him up to utitlize his talents better. I hope so.

But I do not think so. I think he's a marvelous athlete but he's not a football player. Like KY, I'm a bit leery of how in love with workout statistics Gutekunst seems to be.

I think the draft, as a whole, could be good, but I think Rashan Gary was a complete throwaway pick.

[pbmax]

I was really surprised how some player completely fell in this draft. Look no further than DK Metcalf. The guys was the number 1 receiver on every big board from the pundits. He went towards the end of the second round. That was a huge free fall. Same can be said about Love, he was a top 5 corner pre-draft and he fell to the fourth round. Greedy Williams top 3 corner on every board dropped to the second round. Crazy stuff in this draft.

I think this is more the public draftniks being wrong that any surprise on the part of the teams themselves.

[run pMc]

Saw some jokes making the rounds how Keke's agility scores are on par/better than Metcalf's. Take that for what it's worth.
JSO kept saying that it wasn't a good draft for WR's, I thought it was deep but not great at the top so maybe that's what they meant.

Anyway, I have to think that interviews, background checks, and medicals play into a lot of where they are drafted too. Fans aren't privy to a lot of that, unless it's a J.Polite style meltdown or a grainy video on the internet. I was surprised that some players were available on Day 3, but some players will inevitably rise and fall.

[run pMc]

FWIW, I'm slowly coming around to Gary, although I would have preferred other players with the pick.
More than anything, I'm curious to see how Pettine will use him. Seems like he'll be used all over like D.Capers would use J.Peppers, but Peppers at least had the production at UNC as well.

Not sure about this kid...but I'm hoping he pans out.

[wist43]

I'm in full mea culpa mode on Gary now...

Looked at quite a bit of his game film, play by play... I had dismissed him b/c of all the negative press, which seemed to be justified based on his lack of production.

After listening to Gute, and watching a lot more tape - I now consider Gary a bonafide dude.

I think we may have a player here guys!!!

I think his punch is outstanding. He controls the blocker on almost every snap. He disengages well, reads the play well, takes good angles...

What he needs to work on is his technique to win the edge more often, and develop a second under move coming off his bull rush. As of now, his pass rush is too one demensional.

If he can develop a couple more pass rushing moves, he'll be very, very tough for T's to handle.

I like that he'll be standing up... with the Smiths, our front will definitely be tough to handle.

Starting to get excited about the possibilities.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I was surprised that Wist didn't like Gary from the beginning. Seems like his kind of player, plays with power and fury.

[Joemailman]

I did the same thing Wist did. Heard all the negative press about him, but didn't watch any film until after he was drafted. Everybody agrees he has tons of talent, and nobody says he doesn't make an effort. He seems to do everything thing well but finish. A couple things I noticed about him: First, when he takes an inside rush, he gets double-teamed. That should be opening things up for teammates. Second, opposing teams don't run at him much. He seems to have opponent's respect.

[wist43]

I was surprised that Wist didn't like Gary from the beginning. Seems like his kind of player, plays with power and fury.

It was the lack of "production", i.e. sacks and TFL's, on top of the negative press, on top of an injury... it was easy to just dismiss him as an entitled type that didn't give full effort or play thru injury.

I watch a lot of PFF, and they were way down on him. They're usually pretty good, and their analysis usually holds up when a player gets in the league, but upon further review I think they missed the mark with Gary.

I listened to Gute's presser closely, and took those notes with me when I watched Gary's tape. I'm now fully onboard with the pick.

His DL coach at UM said he's the best player he's ever seen at the position. Pretty high praise.

[RashanGary]

He looks impressive when you turn the tape on. Like you said, wist, he jars mother fuckers back every time with that punch and he’s so damn fast. One of the best Edge run defenders I’ve ever watched.

I’m with wist though, his pass rush needs some work. He has the tools but he needs another go to move beside his bull rush. Preferably two go to moves. If he does that, he’s a great player. We might have a dude.

[George Cumby]

That vid Justin posted was excellent for those still on the fence.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That vid Justin posted was excellent for those still on the fence.

I actually posted it a page ago. :)

[Bretsky]

Well, lol... I was weeping on my pancakes at the time, so cut me some slack :huh:


It's like you were the leader of the revolution and you shot all your soldiers and jumped sides...............LOLOL

[George Cumby]

I actually posted it a page ago. :)

Lol.

Sorry Harv.

That video Harv posted before Justin posted was excellent.

[RashanGary]

Lol.

Sorry Harv.

That video Harv posted before Justin posted was excellent.

Yeah, good video! Oops :lol:

[run pMc]

Agree his run defense is better than his pass rush, and that he needs to learn a few pass rush moves/counters. I noticed -- as did others -- that teams often ran away from him and used quick passing game to neutralize the Gary/Winovich/Bush led front 7. Hard to rack up stats that way.
It's like he's the king of almost-got-him, and that scares me a little for a #12 pick.

Pettine and staff have a lump of clay to mold, it's on them do it now (and for Gary to buy in).

[mraynrand]

I'm in full mea culpa mode on Gary now...

Looked at quite a bit of his game film, play by play... I had dismissed him b/c of all the negative press, which seemed to be justified based on his lack of production.

After listening to Gute, and watching a lot more tape - I now consider Gary a bonafide dude.

"I...wah...accept...sniff, sniff.....your apology.....wah wah wah"
http://packerrats.com/image.php?u=130&dateline=1556457491

[mraynrand]

"Cubs Win! Cubs Win!!"

http://packerrats.com/image.php?u=130&dateline=1556457491

[smuggler]

As long as his shoulder is good, he should at least be solid and allow the other horses to stay fresh as a rook.

[pbmax]

I did the same thing Wist did. Heard all the negative press about him, but didn't watch any film until after he was drafted. Everybody agrees he has tons of talent, and nobody says he doesn't make an effort. He seems to do everything thing well but finish. A couple things I noticed about him: First, when he takes an inside rush, he gets double-teamed. That should be opening things up for teammates. Second, opposing teams don't run at him much. He seems to have opponent's respect.

That is a very popular stunt these days, the EDGE crashing down and a tackle or backer looping outside.

[pbmax]

The shoulder injury is just as worrisome as the lack of production to me. I trust Pettine and Co. to have a plan for production, mostly because I like the new D line coach Montgomery.

I don't trust the medical wing as much. Plus, who knows what they aren't telling you about it. Gary sounded like it was all fixed, but who knows.

[mraynrand]

The shoulder injury is just as worrisome as the lack of production to me. I trust Pettine and Co. to have a plan for production, mostly because I like the new D line coach Montgomery.

I don't trust the medical wing as much. Plus, who knows what they aren't telling you about it. Gary sounded like it was all fixed, but who knows.

get a few more scans. Maybe his labrum is 0.02um thinner.

[wist43]

The shoulder injury is just as worrisome as the lack of production to me. I trust Pettine and Co. to have a plan for production, mostly because I like the new D line coach Montgomery.

I don't trust the medical wing as much. Plus, who knows what they aren't telling you about it. Gary sounded like it was all fixed, but who knows.

Gary said it was a subluxation, not a torn Labrum.

What I read predraft was that it was a torn labrum... more misreporting.

Gary said it's good to go... as long as he gave it sufficient time to heal, it should be fine.

[wist43]

It's like you were the leader of the revolution and you shot all your soldiers and jumped sides...............LOLOL

Lol... yeah, I do that sometimes. Keeps everyone on their toes :thank:

[3irty1]

I'm in full mea culpa mode on Gary now...

Looked at quite a bit of his game film, play by play... I had dismissed him b/c of all the negative press, which seemed to be justified based on his lack of production.

After listening to Gute, and watching a lot more tape - I now consider Gary a bonafide dude.

I think we may have a player here guys!!!

I think his punch is outstanding. He controls the blocker on almost every snap. He disengages well, reads the play well, takes good angles...

What he needs to work on is his technique to win the edge more often, and develop a second under move coming off his bull rush. As of now, his pass rush is too one demensional.

If he can develop a couple more pass rushing moves, he'll be very, very tough for T's to handle.

I like that he'll be standing up... with the Smiths, our front will definitely be tough to handle.

Starting to get excited about the possibilities.

Wist has been hacked.

[MadScientist]

Gary said it was a subluxation, not a torn Labrum.

Maybe not as bad, but still problematic.
https://www.healthline.com/health/shoulder-subluxation#complications
Note this complication:

Shoulder instability. Once you’ve had a subluxation, it’s more likely to happen again. Some people get subluxations over and over again.

I hope it's not the case with him, but I could easily see this as a chronic problem, with surgery needed, and all the problems that may cause.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KhFmPap0WwM

18:25 mark

Great video. I see I'm not the only one making the Jadeveon Clowney comparison.

[call_me_ishmael]

I was really surprised how some player completely fell in this draft. Look no further than DK Metcalf. The guys was the number 1 receiver on every big board from the pundits. He went towards the end of the second round. That was a huge free fall. Same can be said about Love, he was a top 5 corner pre-draft and he fell to the fourth round. Greedy Williams top 3 corner on every board dropped to the second round. Crazy stuff in this draft.

I'm not surprised on Metcalf. On ESPN, they did graphics around him that showed he had basically the same level of agility and quickness as Tom Brady lol. Seems like quickness, agilty and change-of-direction are super important for a wideout. All Metcalf is gonna be able to do is get deep on straight line routes.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I'm not surprised on Metcalf. On ESPN, they did graphics around him that showed he had basically the same level of agility and quickness as Tom Brady lol. Seems like quickness, agilty and change-of-direction are super important for a wideout. All Metcalf is gonna be able to do is get deep on straight line routes.

Megatron would've ran the same shitty agility time had he opted to run the drills. Never did cos he knew he would've gotten shitty numbers. Megatron is probably gonna get bronzed. Metcalf's poor man's Megatron.

Better pray to the Neon God Metcalf never catches a game-winner in a NFC Title game against the Packers. Metcalf is gonna be glorious.

[call_me_ishmael]

Julio Jones ran the 3-cone nearly a full second faster than DK. Cut the nonsense.

[MadScientist]

Megatron would've ran the same shitty agility time had he opted to run the drills. Never did cos he knew he would've gotten shitty numbers. Megatron is probably gonna get bronzed. Metcalf's poor man's Megatron.

Better pray to the Neon God Metcalf never catches a game-winner in a NFC Title game against the Packers. Metcalf is gonna be glorious.

Alas he won't have that QB god Joey Harrington to throw to him, so we'll never know his full potential.

[RashanGary]

Julio Jones ran the 3-cone nearly a full second faster than DK. Cut the nonsense.

Tank can only balance two concepts at a time. Height and speed. When you add agility and hands and route savvy and personality and strength and football awareness.... well, he doesn’t have that capabilitg. he resorts back to speed and size because it’s all he’s capable of comprehending at one time. He thinks you sound stupid because you can’t see his one point as the only point the way he does.

Three years later though he’ll find the best player drafted 10 picks from our pick and say he saw it all along even though it’s a safety who ran 4.6 and he never spoke for until after the guy succeeeded.

Dude is a joke

[Bretsky]

Wist has been hacked.



I think his wife has taken over his PR account

[Bretsky]

Lol... yeah, I do that sometimes. Keeps everyone on their toes :thank:


I cannot accept your Meawhateverthehellthatwas

I want realistic pessimist wist back; that dude held firm with his views and never flipped...he was right sometimes and wrong sometimes but he was firm. He made me feel somewhat optimistic. He's turned detractor to cheerleader on us. Next thing I know he'll be predicting 11 wins and a SuperBowl. I am starting up the Bring Back Wist Bus !

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like the new Wist. Still don't understand how Gary would be the type of guy any Wist would hate. He plays a man's game. I believe his explanation that he wrote him off based on reports without properly evaluating him. Z. Smith and Gary seem like perfect Wist players.

[Joemailman]

I'm in full mea culpa mode on Gary now...

Looked at quite a bit of his game film, play by play... I had dismissed him b/c of all the negative press, which seemed to be justified based on his lack of production.

After listening to Gute, and watching a lot more tape - I now consider Gary a bonafide dude.

I think we may have a player here guys!!!

I think his punch is outstanding. He controls the blocker on almost every snap. He disengages well, reads the play well, takes good angles...

What he needs to work on is his technique to win the edge more often, and develop a second under move coming off his bull rush. As of now, his pass rush is too one demensional.

If he can develop a couple more pass rushing moves, he'll be very, very tough for T's to handle.

I like that he'll be standing up... with the Smiths, our front will definitely be tough to handle.

Starting to get excited about the possibilities.

https://stuarte.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Green-poop-kool-aid.jpg

[wist43]

I cannot accept your Meawhateverthehellthatwas

I want realistic pessimist wist back; that dude held firm with his views and never flipped...he was right sometimes and wrong sometimes but he was firm. He made me feel somewhat optimistic. He's turned detractor to cheerleader on us. Next thing I know he'll be predicting 11 wins and a SuperBowl. I am starting up the Bring Back Wist Bus !

Got a cortisone shot in my hip a couple of weeks ago... been relatively pain free - think that might explain why I'm less curmudgeonly.

Not to worry though, it's bound to wear off before the season starts... the pain will be back, and I'll be happy to lead the resistance again :wave:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting stat. Chase Winovich averaged 0.375 TFL in games that Gary missed in his career. He averaged 1.44 TFL in games that Gary played.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/b99043/in_defense_of_rashan_gary/

[RashanGary]

After watching legit Gary tape and seeing how often teams ran away from him and how few actual opportunities he had, it’s surprising that there was so much negative review. Maybe teams were trying to get him to slide.

[texaspackerbacker]

I heard Gary is gonna be the new #52.

[Fritz]

In number only.

[pbmax]

wrong thread

[Fritz]

Interesting stat. Chase Winovich averaged 0.375 TFL in games that Gary missed in his career. He averaged 1.44 TFL in games that Gary played.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/b99043/in_defense_of_rashan_gary/

Does that mean Gary does not make the players around him better?

[ThunderDan]

Does that mean Gary does not make the players around him better?

I call this the Ted Washington/Urlacher effect. As soon as the 365 lbs DT in front of Urlacher left his tackles went from 151 to 116. Urlacher never reached that number again in his career.

[mraynrand]

Interesting stat. Chase Winovich averaged 0.375 TFL in games that Gary missed in his career. He averaged 1.44 TFL in games that Gary played.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/b99043/in_defense_of_rashan_gary/


That's some deep diving right there. Nice get.

[Zool]

Got a cortisone shot in my hip a couple of weeks ago... been relatively pain free

Just got one in a knee this week. Doctor told me of a new therapy called Coolief

https://blog.ochsner.org/articles/coolief-a-new-procedure-to-relieve-joint-pain

Supposed to last up to 6 months while the nerve endings regrow. Might want to check it out.

[mraynrand]

Just got one in a knee this week. Doctor told me of a new therapy called Coolief

https://blog.ochsner.org/articles/coolief-a-new-procedure-to-relieve-joint-pain

Supposed to last up to 6 months while the nerve endings regrow. Might want to check it out.

I'd be careful. There are still some snafus in those radio wave treatment therapies.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PZ_LyJfYe8

[Radagast]

As this thread is only concerned with GB's 1st (#12) 2019 Draft pick, I most carefully post that I did not like the choice. A top 20 draft pick and he is not close to ready to be a starter? Another project and with the top draft pick. Nevermind his strength, his physical strength could have been his best attribute on the College level, but that alone is not enough to dominate on the professional level. He could eventually become an above average run stopper on the pro level, but I don't see him racking up sacks as a pro.

Had GB waited to get him with the 2nd round (#44 pick), I believe that he would have still been available. I would have prefered that GB had picked either TE Noah Fant (Iowa) or TE Irv Smith (Alabama). I'll not take this post further into the draft as this thread only asked about Rashan Gary.

I believe that GB's GM, influenced by the last GM's methods, fumbled the ball. Up until this draft I had not yet been given any cause to post against this GM's moves.

[Tony Oday]

Best pick in the last 10 years. He will be a 10 sack guy that can cover TEs. Super stud at the position.

[Smidgeon]

As this thread is only concerned with GB's 1st (#12) 2019 Draft pick, I most carefully post that I did not like the choice. A top 20 draft pick and he is not close to ready to be a starter? Another project and with the top draft pick. Nevermind his strength, his physical strength could have been his best attribute on the College level, but that alone is not enough to dominate on the professional level. He could eventually become an above average run stopper on the pro level, but I don't see him racking up sacks as a pro.

Had GB waited to get him with the 2nd round (#44 pick), I believe that he would have still been available. I would have prefered that GB had picked either TE Noah Fant (Iowa) or TE Irv Smith (Alabama). I'll not take this post further into the draft as this thread only asked about Rashan Gary.

I believe that GB's GM, influenced by the last GM's methods, fumbled the ball. Up until this draft I had not yet been given any cause to post against this GM's moves.

For the record, you think Gary would have been available at #44?

[mraynrand]

For the record, you think Gary would have been available at #44?

Even Rodgers didn't slide that far! :)

[gbgary]

here's another grading video from (non-Packers homer) brett kollmann an SBNation writer. Has some other interesting videos on his YT channel. Packers start at 40:47...

https://youtu.be/8v3jh4c0oVE

[Joemailman]

here's another grading video from (non-Packers homer) brett kollmann an SBNation writer. Has some other interesting videos on his YT channel. Packers start at 40:47...

https://youtu.be/8v3jh4c0oVE

Good stuff. But Harvey beat you to it. :) http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30908-This-Year-s-Draft&p=1009857#post1009857

[RashanGary]

That guy studies so hard and does such a good job. I hope he’s making money.

[smuggler]

He certainly is. With his subscriber total, he's got a good chance. It all depends on the views.

[call_me_ishmael]

This was an interesting read on Clelin Ferrell.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/06/mike-mayock-clelin-ferrell-raiders-2019-draft-kyler-murray-daniel-jones-dwayne-haskins

This passage made me think of our guy:


“I don’t think I would’ve been as surprised as a lot of the world,” Mayock said, with a laugh. “At the end of the day, people act like the thought wouldn’t occur to me to trade down and still get Cle. He was our guy, OK? And whether we got him at 4, 8, 10, it didn’t matter. He was gonna be our guy.

“He’s a foundation player. And even more importantly, he’s a three-down defensive end who can stick his hand in the dirt and play on run downs and pass downs. He’s not a guy who’s going to be a designated pass-rusher. He’s in there on every snap. And he’s gonna set the tone for us, as far as these young guys are concerned. I couldn’t wait to get to that pick.”

In my final “rumors” column that went up about three hours before the draft started, we did connect the Raiders to Ferrell. That was based on a couple tips I’d gotten. But, full disclosure, I didn’t think there was a chance they’d take him at 4, nor did the teams picking around them. In the end? I underestimated just how vital building around the right kind of guy—“our guy”—was going to be. I think most teams did, too.


“If you remember when Chris Long got drafted by St. Louis, he was the second pick, and when they drafted him, I knew the kind of player they were getting,” Mayock said. “Now, they were never able to successfully bring other guys around him, but Chris Long played his butt off every snap of every game, he set a physical edge in the run game, he got his 7, 8, 9, 10 sacks, and he energizes a locker room.

“He’s what I call a glue player. I looked at Ferrell back in September and October, and I watched three or four tapes and at the bottom of my notes, I wrote ‘glue/Chris Long.’ That’s the kind of guy, to me, who has more value than you can even put a number on. Chris hung in there, ended up in New England, gets a Super Bowl, goes to Philadelphia, gets another. Chris Long’s a glue guy. And I think Cle is also.”

I thought our dude was lazy before really diving in, but everyone says he's a workaholic who loves football (but also has some outside interests he wants to pursue to make some additional money). I hope these glue guy quotes hold up and apply to our dude as well.

[RashanGary]

Our guy lacks the pass rush of Ferrell. Ferrell is more instinctive with getting a shoulder and finding his way to the QB.

Our guy is more of a brute force though. Plus he’s fast. Gary does some things very few guys is size can do. He’s got the power of 300 pounder and the speed of someone 230. So Gary will have an impact on the game! Just different style than Ferrell.

[wist43]

I think Gary will be fine... he just needs to develop those techniques - good coaching should get him there.

[Bretsky]

I think Gary will be fine... he just needs to develop those techniques - good coaching should get him there.


Will he have MORE or LESS sacks then your other guy :confused: Kyle Fackrell ???

[Deputy Nutz]

Gary will probably have 5 or less sacks as a rookie. I am sure he will miss snaps because of injury. The Packers don't exactly need him to play a lot of snaps either, unless injuries happen to the Smiths. If he plays at or around 440 snaps, I think that will be more than enough for him to get his feet wet in the NFL. If he plays close to 500 snaps or above he might fall into 7 or 8 sacks, but more than that isn't realistic even for first round edge rushers.

[run pMc]

Gary will probably have 5 or less sacks as a rookie. I am sure he will miss snaps because of injury. The Packers don't exactly need him to play a lot of snaps either, unless injuries happen to the Smiths. If he plays at or around 440 snaps, I think that will be more than enough for him to get his feet wet in the NFL. If he plays close to 500 snaps or above he might fall into 7 or 8 sacks, but more than that isn't realistic even for first round edge rushers.

Agree. Indications are Pettine will send waves of rushers and move players around. I think that will mean it would be very unusual (but not impossible) for any one player to get more than 8 sacks. If Gary got 5+ sacks I'd consider that a good-to-very good rookie season for him.

[MadScientist]

Agree. Indications are Pettine will send waves of rushers and move players around. I think that will mean it would be very unusual (but not impossible) for any one player to get more than 8 sacks. If Gary got 5+ sacks I'd consider that a good-to-very good rookie season for him.

Fackrell got 10.5 in this scheme and people here are saying he's a JAG. If someone genuinely has talent and there is enough talent around him, he should get close to double digit sacks or more.
That said, I'd be happy if Gary gets 5+ and stays healthy.

[Joemailman]

Fackrell got 10.5 in this scheme and people here are saying he's a JAG. If someone genuinely has talent and there is enough talent around him, he should get close to double digit sacks or more.
That said, I'd be happy if Gary gets 5+ and stays healthy.

Typically Pettine's defenses do not produce a guy with double-digit sacks. He likes to bring pressure from lots of different guys. Last year the Packers had 44 sacks from 16 different guys. That is not an anomaly. We'll probably see something like that again. What likely will be different is that Smith Smith and Gary will produce more consistent pressure than we saw from Clay and Fackrell.

[cheesner]

Typically Pettine's defenses do not produce a guy with double-digit sacks. He likes to bring pressure from lots of different guys. Last year the Packers had 44 sacks from 16 different guys. That is not an anomaly. We'll probably see something like that again. What likely will be different is that Smith Smith and Gary will produce more consistent pressure than we saw from Clay and Fackrell.Fracks success is a combination of skill, luck, coaching, and lack of blocking focus. I'm not sure what % can be attributed to each. I think he did play much better last season, but not 10.5 sacks good. I hope it is a sign of things to come, but I dont know if we go 2 big dollar FAs and the top draft pick at OLB if the Packers think Fackrells production last season was the new standard going forward.

[Fritz]

It's curious to me that the Packers had the highest draft pick they've had in years and years- the number 12 overall - and so many of you seem to be giving Gary a pass before he ever sets foot on a field for a game. You're all saying it's okay if he gets only about five sacks, that it's a function of Pettine's defense - yet when Fackrell got 10.5 last year, somehow that was a fluke.

They drafted this guy because he supposedly has this huge upside. He's so fast! He's so big!

Well, I think he will play down to your low expectations. So you won't be disappointed.

[MadScientist]

It's curious to me that the Packers had the highest draft pick they've had in years and years- the number 12 overall - and so many of you seem to be giving Gary a pass before he ever sets foot on a field for a game. You're all saying it's okay if he gets only about five sacks, that it's a function of Pettine's defense - yet when Fackrell got 10.5 last year, somehow that was a fluke.

They drafted this guy because he supposedly has this huge upside. He's so fast! He's so big!

Well, I think he will play down to your low expectations. So you won't be disappointed.

I wasn't a huge fan of the pick, especially with that shoulder. So if he stays on the field, gets 5 sacks and is in the mix, that's a lot better of a first season than I'm expecting (0-1 sacks, 5 pressures and IR after 4 games for shoulder surgery.

I'm not as dismissive about Fackrell as others, but I will admit that a number of his sacks were coverage sacks. Still he did tackle the QB after a while, unlike the others on the team.

[Bretsky]

It's curious to me that the Packers had the highest draft pick they've had in years and years- the number 12 overall - and so many of you seem to be giving Gary a pass before he ever sets foot on a field for a game. You're all saying it's okay if he gets only about five sacks, that it's a function of Pettine's defense - yet when Fackrell got 10.5 last year, somehow that was a fluke.

They drafted this guy because he supposedly has this huge upside. He's so fast! He's so big!

Well, I think he will play down to your low expectations. So you won't be disappointed.



A guy nearly all of us wanted to avoid

Then Green Bay picks him and everybody watches his best highlights and they talk themselves into loving the pick.

And now we're watering down his expectations for our "edge" we picked at 12

[Joemailman]

It's curious to me that the Packers had the highest draft pick they've had in years and years- the number 12 overall - and so many of you seem to be giving Gary a pass before he ever sets foot on a field for a game. You're all saying it's okay if he gets only about five sacks, that it's a function of Pettine's defense - yet when Fackrell got 10.5 last year, somehow that was a fluke.

They drafted this guy because he supposedly has this huge upside. He's so fast! He's so big!

Well, I think he will play down to your low expectations. So you won't be disappointed.

Guilty as charged. I'm like that. I don't give up on a guy before he sets foot on a field for a game. Kool-aid drinker that I am.

[mraynrand]

Guilty as charged. I'm like that. I don't give up on a guy before he sets foot on a field for a game. Kool-aid drinker that I am.

lol

[Zool]

Typically Pettine's defenses do not produce a guy with double-digit sacks. He likes to bring pressure from lots of different guys. Last year the Packers had 44 sacks from 16 different guys. That is not an anomaly. We'll probably see something like that again. What likely will be different is that Smith Smith and Gary will produce more consistent pressure than we saw from Clay and Fackrell.

I decided to check. In 8 years as a DC or HC, his teams have produced a double digit sack guy 3 times. One of those years there were 3 double digit guys. His teams seem to always be at 40 sacks or above for the season too.

[George Cumby]

I decided to check. In 8 years as a DC or HC, his teams have produced a double digit sack guy 3 times. One of those years there were 3 double digit guys. His teams seem to always be at 40 sacks or above for the season too.

In your research did you find the average number of sacks per team/year? That context would be helpful.

[Zool]

In your research did you find the average number of sacks per team/year? That context would be helpful.

NFL or Pettine specific teams?

[George Cumby]

NFL or Pettine specific teams?

NFL

[run pMc]

I wasn't a huge fan of the pick, especially with that shoulder. So if he stays on the field, gets 5 sacks and is in the mix, that's a lot better of a first season than I'm expecting (0-1 sacks, 5 pressures and IR after 4 games for shoulder surgery.

I'm not as dismissive about Fackrell as others, but I will admit that a number of his sacks were coverage sacks. Still he did tackle the QB after a while, unlike the others on the team.

Count me in the group that is NOT a big fan of picking Gary. The lack of production, the shoulder, etc.
It's possible Pettine can develop him and use him like HOU uses Clowney, but Clowney had the production....so I'm not expecting a lot from him, certainly not in his rookie year. I hope I'm wrong.

As for Fackrell, he's 27 going on 28, and had crazy stats last year -- something like 10.5 sacks on 12 pressures -- which is way out of whack for a pass rusher. I don't think he's going to develop/improve much given his age, and I'd expect his sack : pressure ratio to revert to the mean. At least a few of his sacks fell into the dumb luck category...I'm curious, does anyone think Fackrell will get more than 5-6 sacks this year? I don't see how, not with the Smiths (and possibly Gary) playing likely ahead of him in the rotation.

To be clear, I'm not a Fackrell hater. I thought he was an ok pick at the time. I haven't seen much from him to indicate his ceiling is anything more than an average starter at best, which is actually saying something considering it's the NFL and these guys are animals. Is he better than Erik Walden or Frank Zombo?

I think Fackrell's play was a fluke last year based on his two prior years of play, and with Gary there may be room to grow.
Plus, it's a little savage to hate on the rookie. Let's see if he'll pan out first...but I'm not holding my breath.

[RashanGary]

Fackrell is a fairly athletic dude. I wouldn’t mind signing him to a 3 year deal. He brings a little something different. He’s a matchup challenge for plodding tackles. 6’5” 33.5” arms, 35” vert. Bendy. He’s got some talent at getting a corner and at least half the games of the season he’ll give the plodders fits on 3rd down.

If he signs a 3 year deal now it would be ages 28, 29 and 30 for him. Use him as a situation piece for his best years, then move on.

[wist43]

Fackrell is a fairly athletic dude. I wouldn’t mind signing him to a 3 year deal. He brings a little something different. He’s a matchup challenge for plodding tackles. 6’5” 33.5” arms, 35” vert. Bendy. He’s got some talent at getting a corner and at least half the games of the season he’ll give the plodders fits on 3rd down.

If he signs a 3 year deal now it would be ages 28, 29 and 30 for him. Use him as a situation piece for his best years, then move on.

Justin, Fackrell is the embodiment of "plodding"...

If he had any speed or twitch to him at all, I'd agree with you. Fackrell is the guy you're looking to move on from, not extend.

[RashanGary]

Justin, Fackrell is the embodiment of "plodding"...

If he had any speed or twitch to him at all, I'd agree with you. Fackrell is the guy you're looking to move on from, not extend.

Short guys always look faster. Their little legs are moving like forest gump. Tall guys appear slow. But fackrell has had matchups where he wins. He’s a nice piece in about half of the games

[mraynrand]

Short guys always look faster. Their little legs are moving like forest gump.

lol

https://media.tenor.com/images/029f84a21042a9220c13008015eb5572/tenor.gif

[Patler]

Not sure if anyone posted this:


“He’s got the quickest feet I think I’ve ever seen,” says former Michigan defensive line coach Greg Mattison, who’s now co-defensive coordinator at Ohio State.

How come that explosiveness didn’t translate into more than 9.5 sacks in three seasons? Gary’s advocates point to his role in Michigan’s defense. He was a six-technique “anchor” end, playing across the line from the rush end. His job was to line up over the tight end and, relying more on his size and power than speed, shut down the opponent’s front-side run game. Further from the football, Gary constantly faced chip and double-team blocks, more traffic between him and the quarterback.

Partridge, who left Paramus Catholic for Michigan before Gary’s senior season and is now the Wolverines’ safeties coach, says his role in the defense limited the stats, but was necessary.

“Rashan is able to play multiple positions on the defensive line,” he says, “but other people can’t play multiple positions on the D-line. So for the team, we didn’t ask him to line up on the open side and rush the passer. We asked him to line up inside the tight end and knock the crap out of the tight end and stop the run. Because college is a lot different than the pro game. You’ve got so much quarterback-driven run, so much tight end run.

“He did that better than anyone in the country. You can’t tell me that you can find somebody in the country that was better at knocking the crap out of the tight end and stopping the front-side run game. He had so many tackles on front-side, tight zone and power, and all that stuff. He completely took the play away. If people would actually look at it and notice, teams started running weak (side) against us all the time. They started attacking us weak because of what he was doing on the tight end side. So his production was very much related to what we asked him to do in the scheme.”

Mattison says Gary should be judged not on his numbers, but how he lifted Michigan’s defensive front. “There’s a reason,” he explains, “why Chase Winovich had a whole bunch of sacks.” Winovich, Michigan’s rush end, had 18.5 sacks the past three years, most of them with Gary on the field, his presence creating one-on-one blocks. The New England Patriots drafted Winovich early in the third round, 65 picks after Gary.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/12/former-phenom-rashan-gary-driven-meet-sky-high-packers-expectations/1169578001/

[RashanGary]

Not sure if anyone posted this:

I did see that, Patler. And there are whole game breakdowns where dude only gets one or two runs per game to his side. And then they chip him and double on pass plays except for the designed quick passes. Its crazy how few chances teams gave him to make plays.

And you watch the tape. Dude just plows guys over. He’s a damn brute.

I like that Gute took him and stood there and completely disagreed with some of that media. He was just like, no, it’s in the eye of the beholder. We didn’t see that at all.

[pbmax]

Patridge is a legit source. Dude knows his stuff and has been everywhere in the B1G.

EDIT: Wrong Partridge. He's a former HS coach that became a big time recruiter at Michigan. Don't trust him.

[Fritz]

Patridge is a legit source. Dude knows his stuff and has been everywhere in the B1G.

EDIT: Wrong Partridge. He's a former HS coach that became a big time recruiter at Michigan. Don't trust him.

Partridge is at Michigan because Harbaugh wanted Rashan Gary so he did what big time (read "gaming the system") college coaches do: he hired the player's favorite high school coach to become a position coach, or assistant position coach, at the university.

So of course he's going to slobber all over Rashan Gary. But those of you who are now defending Gary sure sound like you're desperately hunting for reasons to think he was a good pick - after so many of us talking about how Gutekunst needed a difference-maker with that high of a pick. Now Gary sounds like the second coming of Nick Perry, who most Packerrats were disgruntled with - and he was picked late in the first round. Wist hated Thompson drafting a college defensive lineman who had to convert to OLB - and here we are with a college defensive lineman converting to OLB, and everyone's explaining why that's okay. And why it's okay he's a good run-stopper, and why it's okay he may not get many sacks.

Weird universe.

[RashanGary]

Fritz, legitimately watch the tape. Full game tapes. He’s a bully on the field dude. He doesn’t get a lot of chances because teams go away from him in a variety of ways. Gary is a brute force, dude. He’s Perry but stronger and faster.

[pbmax]

Partridge is at Michigan because Harbaugh wanted Rashan Gary so he did what big time (read "gaming the system") college coaches do: he hired the player's favorite high school coach to become a position coach, or assistant position coach, at the university.

So of course he's going to slobber all over Rashan Gary. But those of you who are now defending Gary sure sound like you're desperately hunting for reasons to think he was a good pick - after so many of us talking about how Gutekunst needed a difference-maker with that high of a pick. Now Gary sounds like the second coming of Nick Perry, who most Packerrats were disgruntled with - and he was picked late in the first round. Wist hated Thompson drafting a college defensive lineman who had to convert to OLB - and here we are with a college defensive lineman converting to OLB, and everyone's explaining why that's okay. And why it's okay he's a good run-stopper, and why it's okay he may not get many sacks.

Weird universe.

Yeah, once I realized I was thinking of another Partirdge, the gloss wore off the glowing praise.

[Joemailman]

Fritz, legitimately watch the tape. Full game tapes. He’s a bully on the field dude. He doesn’t get a lot of chances because teams go away from him in a variety of ways. Gary is a brute force, dude. He’s Perry but stronger and faster.

I watched some game tape of Gary after the draft because what I had read about him was so different from what Gutey was saying. Based on what I had heard, I was kind of expecting to see another Datone Jones. What I saw was a much more physical player. I kind of got the sense that the Michigan coaching staff didn't do a particularly good job of finding ways to utilize Gary's unique (for a man his size) athletic skills. My hope and expectation is that Pettine's staff can do better.

[wist43]

Yeah, once I realized I was thinking of another Partirdge, the gloss wore off the glowing praise.

Laurie was hot... at least I thought she was :)

[wist43]

Partridge is at Michigan because Harbaugh wanted Rashan Gary so he did what big time (read "gaming the system") college coaches do: he hired the player's favorite high school coach to become a position coach, or assistant position coach, at the university.

So of course he's going to slobber all over Rashan Gary. But those of you who are now defending Gary sure sound like you're desperately hunting for reasons to think he was a good pick - after so many of us talking about how Gutekunst needed a difference-maker with that high of a pick. Now Gary sounds like the second coming of Nick Perry, who most Packerrats were disgruntled with - and he was picked late in the first round. Wist hated Thompson drafting a college defensive lineman who had to convert to OLB - and here we are with a college defensive lineman converting to OLB, and everyone's explaining why that's okay. And why it's okay he's a good run-stopper, and why it's okay he may not get many sacks.

Weird universe.

It depends on who you're looking to convert, and what scheme you're running.

Perry was smaller, stiffer, slower, and less athletic than Gary. He also had the handicap of playing in Capers idiotic 2-4.

That said, I think Perry would have been more effective in Pettines 3-3, and he didn't have the talent playing alongside him that Gary will have, but in total I think Gary is leaps and bounds better than Perry.

I got pretty much everything I wanted out of this offseason. We finally have a defensive front, and scheme, I think can really make some noise.

Oddly enough, at least on the defensive side of the ball, I'm a happy camper :)

[Bretsky]

Will he have MORE or LESS sacks then your other guy :confused: Kyle Fackrell ???

WIST ????

[mraynrand]

Partridge is at Michigan because Harbaugh wanted Rashan Gary so he did what big time (read "gaming the system") college coaches do: he hired the player's favorite high school coach to become a position coach, or assistant position coach, at the university.

So of course he's going to slobber all over Rashan Gary. But those of you who are now defending Gary sure sound like you're desperately hunting for reasons to think he was a good pick - after so many of us talking about how Gutekunst needed a difference-maker with that high of a pick. Now Gary sounds like the second coming of Nick Perry, who most Packerrats were disgruntled with - and he was picked late in the first round. Wist hated Thompson drafting a college defensive lineman who had to convert to OLB - and here we are with a college defensive lineman converting to OLB, and everyone's explaining why that's okay. And why it's okay he's a good run-stopper, and why it's okay he may not get many sacks.

Weird universe.

https://www.ancientsculpturegallery.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/0f396e8a55728e79b48334e699243c07/f/0/f033_2_1.jpg

[wist43]

WIST ????

More... although I can just see Fackrell falling backward, never touching the QB, yet still getting credit for 10 sacks ;)

[RashanGary]

I watched some game tape of Gary after the draft because what I had read about him was so different from what Gutey was saying. Based on what I had heard, I was kind of expecting to see another Datone Jones. What I saw was a much more physical player. I kind of got the sense that the Michigan coaching staff didn't do a particularly good job of finding ways to utilize Gary's unique (for a man his size) athletic skills. My hope and expectation is that Pettine's staff can do better.

Yeah. He’s a powerful dude. He regularly plows tackles straight back. Different than Perry. More consistent. Sometime it’s a one arm stab that damn near lifts a dude off his feet. He’s the strongest man on the field and he’s only 277. I’ve seen some good players come out of college. At 277 though, I haven’t seen anyone so consistently powerful. Or faster. He’s a rare talent. Gute had confidence in the pick too. He said production is in the eye of the beholder. He said Gary wrecked the game for offenses. When I turned on the tape that’s what I saw. Gary was a brute force. A difference maker. A rare powerhorse that regularly beat the shit out of the guy in front of him like a school yard bully. There is a reason Wist likes him.

12 might be a steal.

[RashanGary]

Nick Perry is a bad comparison. Mike Daniels with Micah Hyde speed is more like it.

[George Cumby]

You just can’t watch a full game and not come away thinking Gary is one of the most consistent cruel bully’s to come out in a while. He embarrassed tackles. That’s why two runs per game go at him and 20 go the other way. He’s a bully. That’s the best one word description of Rashan Gary. Even with the shoulder he was a brute force bully. Nick Perry is a bad comparison. Mike Daniels with Micah Hyde speed is more like it.

/Weirdboners

[RashanGary]

/Weirdboners

It’s true. I’ve never seen someone so powerful at 277. Alone that’s rare. But I’ve also never seen someone so fast. His highlight reel is ok but his every play game tape looks about the same. Every play he’s throat stabbing the guy in front of him backwards. The consistency is what makes it so impressive.

[RashanGary]

I used to watch Vince wilfork and his highlight reel probably isn’t much to look at but every play he bullied the guy or guys in front of him and wrecked plays. That’s the Charm of Rashan Gary. He doesn’t catch you by surprise. He does it every play and teams just stop even bothering to run anywhere near him. You don’t see a lot of that.

[call_me_ishmael]

It’s true. I’ve never seen someone so powerful at 277. Alone that’s rare. But I’ve also never seen someone so fast. His highlight reel is ok but his every play game tape looks about the same. Every play he’s throat stabbing the guy in front of him backwards. The consistency is what makes it so impressive.

lol you are such a homer. Sure you've seen equivalent athletes. There's quite a few around the league.

[Smidgeon]

Partridge is at Michigan because Harbaugh wanted Rashan Gary so he did what big time (read "gaming the system") college coaches do: he hired the player's favorite high school coach to become a position coach, or assistant position coach, at the university.

So of course he's going to slobber all over Rashan Gary. But those of you who are now defending Gary sure sound like you're desperately hunting for reasons to think he was a good pick - after so many of us talking about how Gutekunst needed a difference-maker with that high of a pick. Now Gary sounds like the second coming of Nick Perry, who most Packerrats were disgruntled with - and he was picked late in the first round. Wist hated Thompson drafting a college defensive lineman who had to convert to OLB - and here we are with a college defensive lineman converting to OLB, and everyone's explaining why that's okay. And why it's okay he's a good run-stopper, and why it's okay he may not get many sacks.

Weird universe.

For the forum controversy involving this pick alone and how it's flipped the pessimists into the optimists, the optimists into the pessimists, and those with balanced perspectives to one extreme or the other, I'm not sure I've ever anticipated watching a first round pick play as much as I am this one. I'm very interested to see who's right. Can't wait for the games to start.

Reminds me, I miss Christl's daily training camp run downs. Nobody has come close to his insight since he retired.

[pbmax]

For the forum controversy involving this pick alone and how it's flipped the pessimists into the optimists, the optimists into the pessimists, and those with balanced perspectives to one extreme or the other, I'm not sure I've ever anticipated watching a first round pick play as much as I am this one. I'm very interested to see who's right. Can't wait for the games to start.

Reminds me, I miss Christl's daily training camp run downs. Nobody has come close to his insight since he retired.

From this contretemps, I have learned that I really want to read whatever Michigan football forum Fritz is posting to. :lol:

[mraynrand]

From this contretemps, I have learned that I really want to read whatever Michigan football forum Fritz is posting to. :lol:

It's probably like "Attack of the 'Red' Clones"

[RashanGary]

lol you are such a homer. Sure you've seen equivalent athletes. There's quite a few around the league.

There were equivalent athletes to Wilfork too. But nobody was so consistent at battering the dude in front of him. I’m saying Gary batters the guy in front of him consistently. That’s rare.

And how many of those guys were on roids? By all accounts, Gary just woke up bigger and faster and stronger than everyone. It’s all natural.

And he’s the heaviest player in the history of the NFL combine to ever break 4.6 . So if they’re out there, it’s never been measured.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe we can use him like the Fridge as an RB on the goal line (only half joking).

[call_me_ishmael]

There were equivalent athletes to Wilfork too. But nobody was so consistent at battering the dude in front of him. I’m saying Gary batters the guy in front of him consistently. That’s rare.

And how many of those guys were on roids? By all accounts, Gary just woke up bigger and faster and stronger than everyone. It’s all natural.

And he’s the heaviest player in the history of the NFL combine to ever break 4.6 . So if they’re out there, it’s never been measured.

Not saying it's a bad thing, you just make me laugh with your optimism. I am optimistic about Gary - but you're an entirely new level lol. I doubt he'll be Jadeveon Clowney or the end in Cleveland but a step or two down from that is a great draft pick for picking #12.