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Fritz
04-27-2019, 08:06 AM
Well, people, I have been very loud and very clear in my assessment of the Rashan Gary pick, and that has dampened my enthusiasm for the Packers' draft. But I do hope to be wrong, and I suppose if the rest of this draft pans out beautifully, we might even look back at this move the way we do with the Jerel Worthy botch job (it was only a second-round pick in comparison, but it did cost the Packers to move up) - a regrettable mistakes that was overcome by drafting someone else later in the draft at the same position (Mike Daniels). Maybe Savage will become an All Pro. Maybe Jenkins anchors the inside for the next ten years, and Stearnberger becomes the next Jackie Harris.

So let's turn our attention to our counterparts in the NFC North. I am hoping that Rastak might stop by to give us his analysis of the Vikes' draft, and I don't think we'll need to spend much time analyzing da Bears' first- and second-round picks (some small compensation for having to watch Khalil Mack rip through the Packers' offense). They did pick up a replacement for Howard in the third in the form of David Montgomery. Looks like a good pick for them.

So that leaves the Detroit Lions. Let me just say this, people: they have gone all, all in on "the Patriot Way." I like what Pete Dougherty said about this so-called "Patriot Way" in his chat last night: "in the end I don't think it's Belichick's model that produces results. If that were the case his proteges wouldn't have such a high fail rate. It's him and Brady that have made that franchise so dominant. Whatever 'it' is, Belichick has an abundance. There's just something about his ability to see the game and players, and figure out ways to take away what opponents do best, and how to attack defenses, that sets him apart from the rest. No system can duplicate that."

But the Lions are going to try. They are drafting in a way that is almost polar-opposite of Gutekunst: there mantra is "tough," "versatile," and "football guys with character." I think Gutekunst values the versatile part, but he seems to be looking for exceptional athletes while the Lions want tough guys. Let's look at their picks:

Round one: TJ Hockenson - Well, here's a guy some thought the Packers might want at #12. All-around player, blocks and catches, not as fast or with as much upside as Fant, according to many scouts, but he's going to be a good tight end. Fits the Lions' trend to take "safer" guys with that first pick. Less upside than others at the position, perhaps, but more of a sure thing. They've done with with Davis, Ragnow, and Decker.

Round Two: Jahlani Tavai, linebacker, Hawaii - well, this is where it gets weird. The Lions took this dude in the second round, even though it appears most scouts had him projected not in the third but maybe the fourth of fifth. Here's what venerable Detroit News writer Bob Wojnowski had to say, summing up the pick and the Lions' current philosophy: "And sorry, but Tavai absolutely looked like a reach, a linebacker who missed half of his final season at Hawaii with a shoulder injury, which dropped him off some radars. He was so lightly recognized, it was hard to find evaluation videos of him. So why would the Lions feel compelled to grab him in the second round when it seemed – from a distance – he’d be available much later? Why wouldn’t they trade down and wait for their guy to fall to them?

Quinn’s answer in a nutshell: When they identify someone who fits their specific system, they won’t risk losing him. Tavai is the big linebacker (6-2, 250) that Patricia craves, and brings the versatility and physicality required by this Lions regime. You hear the word “culture” so often, you figure they’re serious about instilling it.

That means character and toughness over flashy talent and big names."

Still, looks like a reach here. Doh! Makes giving up two fourths to move up for Savage look eminently reasonable.

Third round: Will Harris, S, Boston College - The Lions gave the Vikes thier second sixth round pick (they had two) to move up seven spots to take this guy. He is described as a "leader" and a "tackling machine," and though starting for three years, he had only four interceptions.

It will be interesting to see how this approach works for Detroit. They truly are mini-New England in their approach, though don't forget what Dougherty said about that. In fact, rumor was that the Lions were spurred to take that Hawaii linebacker in the second round because they'd heard that the Patriots were sniffing around the guy. But Belichik being Belichik, you wonder if he simply set that up.

So, the fans in Detroit, while howling about the Packers' pick of Rashan Gary, are none too happy with picking a tight end at #8 overall, a linebacker who was projected to go in the fourth or fifth being taken in the second, and a safety who looks maybe solid but not a playmaker being taken in the third, after moving up.

pbmax
04-27-2019, 08:26 AM
Thanks Fritz.

I too Rastak stops by the give us the skinny on the Vikes draft, but I bet Harvey could fill in for him given his location among the many lakes.

Fritz
04-27-2019, 09:59 AM
Well, here's what Carlos Montarraz of the Detroit Free Press says about the Lions' second round pick, the linebacker Jahlani Tavaii from Hawaii:

"This seems like a crazy reach. He’s an unknown player from a second-tier conference who missed his final six games with a shoulder injury, though he still had 82 tackles. He missed the Senior Bowl and NFL combine and was arrested in a nightclub altercation last year."

And this was an early second round pick. Makes me feel a little better about Gary. I guess.

Fritz
04-27-2019, 02:18 PM
Lions fans jumping off bridges here. They point out that in the last twenty years or so, only three tight ends have been taken in the top ten, two of those by that gold-standard franchise, the Detroit Lions.

Then there was the reach in round two that made trading up for Savage look conservative in comparison. Great line from a Detroit sports head: "The guy was rated at a fourth-round pick, at best. Why did the Lions have to hurry up and pick a guy whose skill set is so perfectly suited to them but to no other team in the NFL?"

Harris looks solid in round three, but he appears not to be a playmaker. More of a steady hand.

Then a Clemson defensive end, which they're all okay with because, well, he's a Clemson defensive end.

Then a Penn State cornerback.

Rastak
04-27-2019, 02:36 PM
Garrett Bradbury - C:

I'm pretty excited about their first pick. From what I hear Kubiak liked this guy for two years and he should perfectly fit theirt zone running game. That should free up Elflein to move to guard.

“Gary Kubiak had an opportunity all fall to basically evaluate a lot of college football players,” Zimmer said, “and this was one of his favorite guys with the offensive group.”

Irv Smith Jr - TE:

Sounds like he's pretty versatile so should be good in a two TE set which I have heard they will run next year.

Alexander Maddison - RB:

Not super fired up about him but sounds like he could be a good short yardage guy.

Fritz
04-30-2019, 09:31 AM
Garrett Bradbury - C:

I'm pretty excited about their first pick. From what I hear Kubiak liked this guy for two years and he should perfectly fit theirt zone running game. That should free up Elflein to move to guard.

“Gary Kubiak had an opportunity all fall to basically evaluate a lot of college football players,” Zimmer said, “and this was one of his favorite guys with the offensive group.”

Irv Smith Jr - TE:

Sounds like he's pretty versatile so should be good in a two TE set which I have heard they will run next year.

Alexander Maddison - RB:

Not super fired up about him but sounds like he could be a good short yardage guy.


Thanks, Ras.

Heard an interview this morning on Detroit sports talk radio with Bob Quinn, the Lions' general manager.

I found this to be absolutely the most interesting quote from his mish-mash of cliches and evasions, in response to the perception that the Lions weren't as interested in speed so much as "toughness" and size. Quinn began by saying that was not true, that speed was important (he said Hockenson "plays fast"), but then he said this: "Sideline-to-sideline guys definitely don't work in this defensive system."

Wow. Guess they wouldn't have drafted Devin White or Devin Bush, then.

It seems to me that the Packers and Lions are going in very different directions as far as the types of players they're after. Both want versatility, but the Lions are focused on toughness, size, maybe length, and leadership. The Packers want speed and length.

We shall see which system ends up working better, or what GM can spot the right talent for the system.

run pMc
04-30-2019, 04:04 PM
Tavaii supposedly plays like his hair's on fire and averaged 10 tackles a game. In the Mountain-West conference. Sounds like he's a downhill, in the box kind of defender, and I thought that's where Jarrad Davis played, so IDK what they're doing. He feels like a younger Antonio Morrison to me, and guys like that can be found later than R2.

As for the Vikes: you knew they were gonna bolster their OL, and Bradbury and Dru Samia will help in the zone run game. Samia is a couple of burgers short of 300lbs, so you have to think he's got to get bigger/stronger to play guard. Irv Smith Jr. is a good pickup and will be the heir apparent to Kyle Rudolph. In a draft where the best depth/talent was on the defensive side, they drafted offense. Still, Green Bay is looking up at them in the standings.

Bears picked David Montgomery, who is a big power back with modest (for a RB) athleticism. They traded Jordan Howard, so no surprise they took a replacement.

pbmax
05-01-2019, 09:27 AM
Thanks, Ras.

Heard an interview this morning on Detroit sports talk radio with Bob Quinn, the Lions' general manager.

I found this to be absolutely the most interesting quote from his mish-mash of cliches and evasions, in response to the perception that the Lions weren't as interested in speed so much as "toughness" and size. Quinn began by saying that was not true, that speed was important (he said Hockenson "plays fast"), but then he said this: "Sideline-to-sideline guys definitely don't work in this defensive system."

Wow. Guess they wouldn't have drafted Devin White or Devin Bush, then.

It seems to me that the Packers and Lions are going in very different directions as far as the types of players they're after. Both want versatility, but the Lions are focused on toughness, size, maybe length, and leadership. The Packers want speed and length.

We shall see which system ends up working better, or what GM can spot the right talent for the system.

I suspect that a decreased emphasis on sideline to sideline speed could be true for a Patriots defensive front 6. Their run game defense emphasizes gap fits and they get very detailed about it. Pats don't just have a 1 gap or 2 gap call. It can be one guy on the LOS who is 2 gapping to allow another player to flow outside or match numbers on an option. I can see thinking that fast LOS players aren't helping the team concept if they aren't in their gap. But it doesn't mean speed isn't good, it just means they don't want speed in place of strength and discipline.

The backend plays their matchup zone (hybrid zone and man to man - starts out zone, switches to man based on D reads). They need speed in the back end like any other team.

Curious if this pans out for them. Have never noticed Pats getting reviews indicating their picks lack speed.

Fritz
05-01-2019, 09:48 AM
It was not speed, per se, but sideline to sideline. They like their second round linebacker as a perfect fit for their system. Hopefully our new long-armed wrangler, Jenkins, will keep Mr. Hawaii at bay while our sixth-round running back from ND runs past him.

mraynrand
05-01-2019, 12:46 PM
It was not speed, per se, but sideline to sideline. They like their second round linebacker as a perfect fit for their system. Hopefully our new long-armed wrangler, Jenkins, will keep Mr. Hawaii at bay while our sixth-round running back from ND runs past him.

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/14-1s056-willis-c-300x300.jpg?w=300&h=300&crop=1

Fritz
05-02-2019, 11:49 AM
Defensive holding? What?