Josh Rosen Trade

[pbmax]

Or as I am using it, an opportunity to remind everyone that when NFL people talk about numbers, they are full of mule fritters, in the words of Sherman T. Potter.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/29/josh-rosen-cardinals-dolphins-trade-quotes-mmqb

Steve Keim, future manager of a Dairy Queen or the next Giants GM:


The GM said the Cardinals had done a study: “Over the past three years, an average of 15 players at that position played all 16 games,” the text read. “Of the injured players, they missed an average of 4.6 games.” Those numbers meant that more than half the teams in the NFL relied on a backup for at least one game, and many for five or more. Keim felt the two first-rounders could coexist and give Arizona the deepest QB room in pro football.

Its not a study if you go to Pro Football Reference, do a search, plug it into Excel and sort by Games Started, and then subtract from 16. Its not solid if you arbitrarily decide to ignore the healthy players, unless you have good reason to suspect Rosen of missing games (which given their O line, could be argued).

The article is a blown kiss to Rosen, but does a nice job of making Keim look foolish.

Woodbuck likes to insist that PackerRats could be a decent GM. There are times when I almost believe that.

[run pMc]

Hard to believe a GM that is drafting/trading high R1 QBs. He has to try to spin that as well as he can to keep his job. He probably figures if he throws out some stats -- even if questionably derived -- most fans will accept it at face value as correct.

If I was NYG, I'd have dangled a R2 pick for Rosen and kept my R1s for playmakers instead of drafting Daniel effing Jones. Gettleman looks like a dumbass with his moves.

[red]

last year was the QB draft, there were no first round QB's this year IMO

rosen will turn out to be better then all of them this year

the dolphins got an absolute steal

[red]

Hard to believe a GM that is drafting/trading high R1 QBs. He has to try to spin that as well as he can to keep his job. He probably figures if he throws out some stats -- even if questionably derived -- most fans will accept it at face value as correct.

If I was NYG, I'd have dangled a R2 pick for Rosen and kept my R1s for playmakers instead of drafting Daniel effing Jones. Gettleman looks like a dumbass with his moves.

agreed about NY, they really look stupid in this case

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Rosen’s NFL career is/was doomed from the moment he was born. Which word (was/is) is correct grammatically? I skipped class the day they taught grammar in high school, and then my porn addiction made me dull and, regretfully, drove me away from being an English major while institutionalized.

The established society, by and large, handicaps caucasoid males from greed-fucked families from excelling at QB in the NFL. Rosen would be better off enrolling in Med School at daddy’s expense. Leave the NFL to humble warriors from the streets of Baltimore.

[bobblehead]

To Pb's point, I have met many people in many walks of life who, to put it simply, are idiots and I wonder how they got said walk. I assume NFL GMs are no different. Any rat could be a GM...a couple of them might even be successful.

To the broader point, since QB is the penultimate position that leads to success I would have drafted Murry and traded Rosen if I was convinced he was better.

[mraynrand]

Rosen’s NFL career is/was doomed from the moment he was born. Which word (was/is) is correct grammatically? I skipped class the day they taught grammar in high school, and then my porn addiction made me dull and, regretfully, drove me away from being an English major while institutionalized.

The established society, by and large, handicaps caucasoid males from greed-fucked families from excelling at QB in the NFL. Rosen would be better off enrolling in Med School at daddy’s expense. Leave the NFL to humble warriors from the streets of Baltimore.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TvObTI5JYRM/UX7JHkGpcuI/AAAAAAAABxE/W28KZKlEzp0/s400/jack-nicholson-nodding-gif.gif

[smuggler]

Rosen’s NFL career is/was doomed from the moment he was born. Which word (was/is) is correct grammatically? I skipped class the day they taught grammar in high school, and then my porn addiction made me dull and, regretfully, drove me away from being an English major while institutionalized.

The established society, by and large, handicaps caucasoid males from greed-fucked families from excelling at QB in the NFL. Rosen would be better off enrolling in Med School at daddy’s expense. Leave the NFL to humble warriors from the streets of Baltimore.

What the fuck?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

What the fuck?

First of all, I read a nice article around draft time last year about the odds being against Rosen succeeding in the NFL due to his greed-fucked upbringing.

Secondly, porn addiction is no joke. Prolonged exposure to porn could fuck up one's brain and, consequently, render one dull. I was gonna major in English. Migrate to Hollywood afterward. Write awesome lyrics for American Idol contestants and awesome screenplays for movies and TV shows. Was gonna date Jennifer Lawrence or Jennifer Hudson or even both. But I started watching porn on the internet in the dorm room. I still blame society for my wretched existence, but I'm pretty sure porn has a role in it, too. Today, I cannot develop interpersonal relationships with other homoids. Cannot talk to chicks b/c my mind just wanna, as your avatar says, fuck 'em.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TvObTI5JYRM/UX7JHkGpcuI/AAAAAAAABxE/W28KZKlEzp0/s400/jack-nicholson-nodding-gif.gif

Found another professorship gig? Gary, IN is home to Indiana University Northwest, according to Wiki.

[call_me_ishmael]

last year was the QB draft, there were no first round QB's this year IMO

rosen will turn out to be better then all of them this year

the dolphins got an absolute steal

I agree with this. They got him for pennies on the dollar. Hopefully he turns into a good NFL QB. He was a premier prospect coming out of HS and was pretty good in college. He certainly looks the part.

Many feel Keim is one of the better GMs and talent evaluators in the league. I was bewildered at how they could wait to trade Rosen until after they drafted this guy and gave up all leverage. I am also bewildered at how NYG didn't trade a pick to get this guy who is considered a much, much better prospect than the player they selected this year.

[Deputy Nutz]

First of all, I read a nice article around draft time last year about the odds being against Rosen succeeding in the NFL due to his greed-fucked upbringing.

Secondly, porn addiction is no joke. Prolonged exposure to porn could fuck up one's brain and, consequently, render one dull. I was gonna major in English. Migrate to Hollywood afterward. Write awesome lyrics for American Idol contestants and awesome screenplays for movies and TV shows. Was gonna date Jennifer Lawrence or Jennifer Hudson or even both. But I started watching porn on the internet in the dorm room. I still blame society for my wretched existence, but I'm pretty sure porn has a role in it, too. Today, I cannot develop interpersonal relationships with other homoids. Cannot talk to chicks b/c my mind just wanna, as your avatar says, fuck 'em.

Skinbasket? How did you hack into APB's account?

[Deputy Nutz]

So the Cardinals trade up in the 2018 draft to get Rosen. They gave a 3rd round pick, and 5th round pick to move up the five spots in the first round. Then a year later they draft Murray and trade Rosen for a second round pick. All this for Kiff Kingsbury who couldn't even win football games in college.

Drafted players are like cars, once a new car is driven off the lot their value automatically goes down by 30%. In Rosen's case the Dolphins got a 2018 Cadillac for 5 grand. Hats off to the Dolphins little risk for a huge reward.

The Cardinals had to start over completely and Rosen was the baby thrown out with the bath water. The Cardinals might be better for it, but it was a utter clusterfuck of wasted draft capital. If the Cardinals had history of being a competitive franchise then I think they would have never made these decisions, but the fact is they lose 4 out of every 5 seasons. If it fails, then they are are simply just being the Cardinals, if it works they completely rebuilt the sinking ship.

[hoosier]

To Pb's point, I have met many people in many walks of life who, to put it simply, are idiots and I wonder how they got said walk. I assume NFL GMs are no different. Any rat could be a GM...a couple of them might even be successful.

To the broader point, since QB is the penultimate position that leads to success I would have drafted Murry and traded Rosen if I was convinced he was better.

QB is second to last???? Which one is last?

[mraynrand]

QB is second to last???? Which one is last?

Long snapper

[run pMc]

I saw one talking head say that it was a good move to draft Murray and move on from Rosen. The theory was that you keep drafting QBs until you know you've hit on one, and they hadn't hit on Rosen. No, it wasn't Matt Millen applying his WR draft history to QBs.

My take is that you have to give a QB a chance to develop -- very few can thrive from the first snap. Rodgers looked uninspiring in his first appearances. I think they gave up on Rosen too soon, and I am also very skeptical of Kingsbury succeeding. Murray might be Russell Wilson II, but he might not. If I were ARI, I'd have either tried to trade down for more picks or gone defense. Their OL was pretty terrible last year, and their offense was run as if the playcaller was a magic 8 ball.

What do you think someone like Doug Peterson or Kyle Shanahan could do with Rosen?
Are there any rumors out of ARI that Rosen was a bad teammate? There were concerns when he was drafted, but haven't heard anything since.

[George Cumby]

What the fuck?

What Smug said.

[QBME]

QB is second to last???? Which one is last?

Penultimate is second from the top. But your question still stands - what other position is more important?

[texaspackerbacker]

Google it - the second to lasts have it.

[SudsMcBucky]

I saw one talking head say that it was a good move to draft Murray and move on from Rosen. The theory was that you keep drafting QBs until you know you've hit on one, and they hadn't hit on Rosen. No, it wasn't Matt Millen applying his WR draft history to QBs.

My take is that you have to give a QB a chance to develop -- very few can thrive from the first snap. Rodgers looked uninspiring in his first appearances. I think they gave up on Rosen too soon, and I am also very skeptical of Kingsbury succeeding. Murray might be Russell Wilson II, but he might not. If I were ARI, I'd have either tried to trade down for more picks or gone defense. Their OL was pretty terrible last year, and their offense was run as if the playcaller was a magic 8 ball.

What do you think someone like Doug Peterson or Kyle Shanahan could do with Rosen?
Are there any rumors out of ARI that Rosen was a bad teammate? There were concerns when he was drafted, but haven't heard anything since.

Don't disagree that ARI should've given Rosen more time. However, once they hired Kingsbury, they were pretty much pot committed to picking Murray. Rosen doesn't really fit Kingsbury's air raid offense.

[pbmax]

Long snapper

You can't start a successful play without the snapper.

[pbmax]

I will amend my original complaint.

Its possible that the Cards actually did a reasonably good study and concluded at the price of (2011 CBA) high draft picks, spending at the position for 2 would not be problematic.

And the problem was explaining it to the reporter in a way he understood. This is not a blanket condemnation of all reporters or Klemenko specifically, but an acknowledgment that many beat guys feel lost trying to sort through advanced stats or even thorough breakdowns of 4th down calls.

But there are a few guys who understand and I have not seen a lot of reporting from that end of the spectrum that teams are on top of this. My baseline assumption is that its all being done by the Patriots and kept a secret from the assistance coaches.