Who Would You Have Picked Instead?

[Smidgeon]

Every year we go through this, saying we never wanted a certain player because we knew someone else was better in the draft.

Now's the chance to put it down for posterity.

Fritz, you can go first. ;)

Instead of Gary at 12, you would have picked who?

Edit: any pick, any round

[jklowan]

given who was left Dillard

[Joemailman]

I would have wanted Dillard since Jonah Williams went at 11. I really wanted a trade down to 17 or so.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm okay with Gary, but at the time I would have went with Wilkins or Dillard. Probably Wilkins.

[Joemailman]

In the preference poll we did before the draft http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30889-Who-Should-Gutey-Draft-At-12, Devin Bush, who turned out not to be available, was the favorite. Followed by Dillard and Burns. Nobody picked Gary.

[red]

almost anyone

he was on my DO NOT DRAFT LIST

then on top of it, he has a bum shoulder, that you know will cost him most of next year somehow

hope i'm wrong, but the guy screams bust

[RashanGary]

After i dug deeper into Gary, I’m gonna stick with the packers pick and say I’m happy with the pick.

[Bretsky]

almost anyone

he was on my DO NOT DRAFT LIST

then on top of it, he has a bum shoulder, that you know will cost him most of next year somehow

hope i'm wrong, but the guy screams bust


Red, no kool aide for you ? Go listen to Gooty talk, then listen to this theme song 12 times, and maybe you'll change your mind and become the definition of the show name... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEOeTX1LqM

[Bretsky]

1. Trade down for sure and then Dillard
2. If I could not get a think then Dillard as top pick and Wilkins as next pick

[Bretsky]

In the preference poll we did before the draft http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30889-Who-Should-Gutey-Draft-At-12, Devin Bush, who turned out not to be available, was the favorite. Followed by Dillard and Burns. Nobody picked Gary.


"Before" the pick occurred, I'd bet nearly all would have preferred Burns and Dillard.

I'm not sure anybody preferred Gary

Gooter talks a good game; I give him that He sold the pick hard in the presser and he did a great job with it

But I have no new info now and I'm not flipping into the Kool Aide bowl because the Packers took him

I hope he's a 10 time Pro Bowler and I'm wrong and he finally lives up to his ability.........unlike his production in college.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I would have taken Gary over Burns for Pettine's system.

[Bretsky]

I would have taken Gary over Burns for Pettine's system.

Burns too small to play on outside ??

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm satisfied with Gary, but what I was saying before the draft is if neither Devin is there at #12, get an O Lineman. Jonah Williams woulda been the best, but he was gone too. There were two or three I would have taken over Dillard: Jawaan Taylor, Cody Ford, maybe Risner or Lindstrom.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Burns too small to play on outside ??

In our scheme probably. Most think he played in 230s last year.

[run pMc]

I liked Burns. He put on weight for the combine and didn't lose any speed/agility. His pass rush moves are advanced for a college kid, and he can really bend around the corner.

If Gary is a better fit in Pettine's D, and Pettine & Co. can pull some of that potential out of him then the pick looks a lot better. If nothing else, they could put him at gunner and he'd be hell to block. :D (Plus it'd get Josh "illegal use of the hands" Jones off the punt team.)

I'd also probably have sat tight at 30 and if no good trade offers came in would have taken a OT like Risner or Ford, or maybe even Jawaan Taylor if the knee checked out. R2 probably would've been best available safety.

According to Gute, he had info that Savage wouldn't have made it to 30, I suspect OAK wanted him and took Abram instead.

[mraynrand]

I would have traded the pick for 16 seventh round selections

[smuggler]

Burns went up to 250 for the combine, but said in a radio interview that he was back in the 230s before the draft. He may have trouble keeping the weight on.

[mraynrand]

Burns went up to 250 for the combine, but said in a radio interview that he was back in the 230s before the draft. He may have trouble keeping the weight on.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--84wtsXmnTo/ToAJ5a1gqUI/AAAAAAAAAog/RwIA_bMgfF0/s1600/mr-burns-triceps.jpg

[red]

I would have traded the pick for 16 seventh round selections

ted?

[run pMc]

I would have traded the pick for 16 seventh round selections

LOL I wonder if this could even be possible -- to trade down until you had a bajillion picks. The #12 pick is worth about 1200 points according to the draft chart I'm looking at. Considering R7 picks are worth between 1 and 5 points each, I'd say if it were possible to get equal value it would probably be all of Round 6 and 7. That would truly be a Ted move -- to draft the entire senior class from SMU football team.

[Radagast]

Unless one post the politically correct/approved sports line, one is subject to being ridiculed for having an independent opinion. That said, Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah , go pack go.

[mraynrand]

That would truly be a Ted move -- to draft the entire senior class from SMU football team.

Awesome.

[Fritz]

almost anyone

he was on my DO NOT DRAFT LIST

then on top of it, he has a bum shoulder, that you know will cost him most of next year somehow

hope i'm wrong, but the guy screams bust


Obviously I agree with Red. Gary is thinking of himself as a brand; as such, he's going to be thinking of his career - not just his football career, but his business career - above all else. And as a person, I'm fine with that. More power to the guy for understanding he's a cog in a corporate machine.

As a Packer fan, though, I think the guy's gonna hold himself out of games if he thinks he's injured. He's going to be worrying more about his brand than about winning football games. Hopefully those two things coincide. The guy is not Frank Clark; he's going to be more Justin Harrell in terms of career success in football.

The guy who is more like Frank Clark is Montez Sweat. He's 6'-6" and weighs 280. Oh, and he had 10.5 sacks his junior year and 12 his senior year. The guy probably does have questionable character, but I think that nasty streak might contribute on the football field.

I would have liked Sweat, and I would have liked Dillard. Either one.

[pbmax]

Unless one post the politically correct/approved sports line, one is subject to being ridiculed for having an independent opinion. That said, Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah , go pack go.

Thanks for contributing to the thread.

[theeaterofshades]

I would have taken David Sills WR WVU in round 7, and used one of the 6th rounders on ILB

[bobblehead]

I'm not afraid to go on record. I would have first liked to trade down. If no trade were available I would have taken in order:

Montez Sweat, Andre Dillard, Brian Burns. Given where these guys went, I might have been able to trade down 2x and then not lost anything to move up for savage.

I still say Sweats heart won't be an issue. He will be a great pro. Dillard would have solved our RT for a decade. Burns would be the edge bending 3rd down specialist we don't have.

[wist43]

"Before" the pick occurred, I'd bet nearly all would have preferred Burns and Dillard.

I'm not sure anybody preferred Gary

Gooter talks a good game; I give him that He sold the pick hard in the presser and he did a great job with it

But I have no new info now and I'm not flipping into the Kool Aide bowl because the Packers took him

I hope he's a 10 time Pro Bowler and I'm wrong and he finally lives up to his ability.........unlike his production in college.

Burns or Dillard were my 2 guys, but had I done proper homework on Gary, he would have been on that short list too.

And I agree with Harvey in that I think Gary is a better fit in Pettine's system than Burns.

Savage would not have been there at 30 had Gute not traded up.

The other guy I was hoping for went in the 3rd round - Diontae Johnson, WR, Toledo. With Gute trading the 4th rounders, I'm okay with Sternberger.

[mraynrand]

I'm not afraid to go on record. I would have first liked to trade down. If no trade were available I would have taken in order:

Montez Sweat, Andre Dillard, Brian Burns. Given where these guys went, I might have been able to trade down 2x and then not lost anything to move up for savage.



That would have been a Sweatheart deal

[texaspackerbacker]

Sweat seems like he could be a good 4-3 DE - the same as Datone Jones seemed. That was my first impression of Gary too, but on further checking, he is seemingly faster and more athletic, more like a 3-4 edge rusher.

From what I read about Dillard, there were about four or more O Linemen I preferred over him.

[bobblehead]

Sweat seems like he could be a good 4-3 DE - the same as Datone Jones seemed. That was my first impression of Gary too, but on further checking, he is seemingly faster and more athletic, more like a 3-4 edge rusher.

From what I read about Dillard, there were about four or more O Linemen I preferred over him.

I'm sure there were.

[Radagast]

Thanks for contributing to the thread.

I've found that unless one is in perfect agreement with the ruling forum site prolaterate, your just walking through a minefield without a map. Even not posting an opinion can get you shot at.

Not being part of the "in crowd", I find that being baited, abused, and treated unfriendly is just the risk I take to post here. If posting an independent opinion gets me used and belittled , it explains my infrequent forum activity.

Yes, I have thoughts about this thread's subject, but it is not worth the treatment that it would receive.

[Joemailman]

I've found that unless one is in perfect agreement with the ruling forum site prolaterate, your just walking through a minefield without a map. Even not posting an opinion can get you shot at.

Not being part of the "in crowd", I find that being baited, abused, and treated unfriendly is just the risk I take to post here. If posting an independent opinion gets me used and belittled , it explains my infrequent forum activity.

Yes, I have thoughts about this thread's subject, but it is not worth the treatment that it would receive.

https://media.giphy.com/media/cwbvB0MXZfnry/giphy.gif

[Bretsky]

I've found that unless one is in perfect agreement with the ruling forum site prolaterate, your just walking through a minefield without a map. Even not posting an opinion can get you shot at.

Not being part of the "in crowd", I find that being baited, abused, and treated unfriendly is just the risk I take to post here. If posting an independent opinion gets me used and belittled , it explains my infrequent forum activity.

Yes, I have thoughts about this thread's subject, but it is not worth the treatment that it would receive.


Actually a post like this sounds like it's meant to bait overs to give you the treatment

I would respect anybody's views and and am rarely with the majority of views

[wist43]

I've found that unless one is in perfect agreement with the ruling forum site prolaterate, your just walking through a minefield without a map. Even not posting an opinion can get you shot at.

Not being part of the "in crowd", I find that being baited, abused, and treated unfriendly is just the risk I take to post here. If posting an independent opinion gets me used and belittled , it explains my infrequent forum activity.

Yes, I have thoughts about this thread's subject, but it is not worth the treatment that it would receive.

Just post and defend your opinion - not that difficult.

[pbmax]

I've found that unless one is in perfect agreement with the ruling forum site prolaterate, your just walking through a minefield without a map. Even not posting an opinion can get you shot at.

Not being part of the "in crowd", I find that being baited, abused, and treated unfriendly is just the risk I take to post here. If posting an independent opinion gets me used and belittled , it explains my infrequent forum activity.

Yes, I have thoughts about this thread's subject, but it is not worth the treatment that it would receive.

Generally speaking, if a post sticks to football, people are pretty tolerant (of the poster anyway). Its frequently the case that posts castigating the other posters themselves that tend to start arguments.

[Deputy Nutz]

I keep wanting to post in this thread, but I have erased it 4 or 5 times. The biggest hole on the defense was at middle linebacker, but the third guy on my list and everyone else's list dropped to the 5th round, so I guess I had know Idea how the position was being evaluated by professionals. The 4th guy on my list didn't even get drafted. I would have liked to see us keep our 4th round picks. I saw good value throughout the 4th round and without them it really limited the Packers ability to move around the draft on the third day.

I thought this receiver class was quite deep, but the lack of players selected in the first round also surprised me. The Packers didn't think any receiver in this draft was worth spending a pick on compared to the guys they already have in house.

I thought this draft would be perfect to let the board fall to each pick for the Packers.

[SudsMcBucky]

I've found that unless one is in perfect agreement with the ruling forum site prolaterate, your just walking through a minefield without a map. Even not posting an opinion can get you shot at.

Not being part of the "in crowd", I find that being baited, abused, and treated unfriendly is just the risk I take to post here. If posting an independent opinion gets me used and belittled , it explains my infrequent forum activity.

Yes, I have thoughts about this thread's subject, but it is not worth the treatment that it would receive.

If you're worried about things like this on an anonymous message board, you're doing things all wrong.

[run pMc]

I keep wanting to post in this thread, but I have erased it 4 or 5 times. The biggest hole on the defense was at middle linebacker, but the third guy on my list and everyone else's list dropped to the 5th round, so I guess I had know Idea how the position was being evaluated by professionals. The 4th guy on my list didn't even get drafted. I would have liked to see us keep our 4th round picks. I saw good value throughout the 4th round and without them it really limited the Packers ability to move around the draft on the third day.

I thought this receiver class was quite deep, but the lack of players selected in the first round also surprised me. The Packers didn't think any receiver in this draft was worth spending a pick on compared to the guys they already have in house.

I thought this draft would be perfect to let the board fall to each pick for the Packers.

I'd read - FWIW - that after the 2 Devins there was a big drop off at ILB, so I'm not surprised many weren't taken until later. I am surprised by how much later, however. I'd have thought Mack Wilson would have been drafted sooner, for example.
The only thing I can figure is that they expect Oren Burks or Josh Jones to be able to play better as LBs. Likewise with the WRs - I half expected them to sign a vet WR (they still might) or draft a slot WR/PR type, but it seems like Gute likes big WRs and believes last year's picks (plus maybe one of Kumerow/Davis) will develop and can play the slot.

It's hard to expect a lot from rookies, so maybe it's good they are counting more on the guys already on the roster? Either way, as it looks now the depth behind Blake Martinez and Devante Adams is not inspiring. Who knows, maybe the Year 2 leap thing happens.

With how Gute approached FA, I expected them to play the board as you did. The first round threw me off.

[mraynrand]

Rad is aghast at Packerrats

[mraynrand]

The only thing about the draft that surprised me was not selecting a OT.. Be interesting to see how that position plays out over the season.

We should have a raffle for when Bulaga goes to for the season. Winner gets a free knee scope.

[red]

Rad is aghast at Packerrats

What?

[mraynrand]

What?

Radagast, Rad Aghast.

If you have to explain it, it ain't funny. Oh well, you lose some and you lose some more.

[red]

Radagast, Rad Aghast.

If you have to explain it, it ain't funny. Oh well, you lose some and you lose some more.

i thought it said red

my bad, i just like making everything about me

[hoosier]

The only thing about the draft that surprised me was not selecting a OT.. Be interesting to see how that position plays out over the season.

We should have a raffle for when Bulaga goes to for the season. Winner gets a free knee scope.

This and a post in a different thread about Hayward and Tretter returning to health after leaving Green Bay got me thinking: are the chronic injuries the result of TT drafting brittle players, or are they the result of something McCarthy's regime did or didn't do, or are they something in the water, or are they just dumb luck? With regime change now consummated, if the injuries continue under Gute and the Flower, we will know it wasn't 1 or 2. Bulaga may well be the first pilot study.

[mraynrand]

This and a post in a different thread about Hayward and Tretter returning to health after leaving Green Bay got me thinking: are the chronic injuries the result of TT drafting brittle players, or are they the result of something McCarthy's regime did or didn't do, or are they something in the water, or are they just dumb luck? With regime change now consummated, if the injuries continue under Gute and the Flower, we will know it wasn't 1 or 2. Bulaga may well be the first pilot study.

Good post, except the last point may not be helpful given how old and beat up Bulaga is - if he's hurt it won't surprise anyone. Now, if Bulaga thrives, that's a huge point in favor of regime change.

[texaspackerbacker]

This and a post in a different thread about Hayward and Tretter returning to health after leaving Green Bay got me thinking: are the chronic injuries the result of TT drafting brittle players, or are they the result of something McCarthy's regime did or didn't do, or are they something in the water, or are they just dumb luck? With regime change now consummated, if the injuries continue under Gute and the Flower, we will know it wasn't 1 or 2. Bulaga may well be the first pilot study.

I vote dumb luck.

[pbmax]

Tretter was dumb luck AND McCarthy. He got his initial ankle injury during a fumble drill in a minicamp. While I understand the usefulness of the drill, its probably one you can avoid to protect the team. Especially if it was competitive, ie. two players run to recover a loose football 10 or so yards away.

Generally speaking, despite Packer hamstring and later Packer shoulder, the organization got a handle in its insane run of injuries from 2009-13. Went from frequently having the most starter games lost to routinely middle of the pack.

[hoosier]

Good post, except the last point may not be helpful given how old and beat up Bulaga is - if he's hurt it won't surprise anyone. Now, if Bulaga thrives, that's a huge point in favor of regime change.

Fair enough, but limitations dictate what kind of study can be done. The guys you would like to see in the new setting at are all gone; those who are left are either too valuable to lose (ARod) or broken down. You work with the material you are given.

[bobblehead]

I keep wanting to post in this thread, but I have erased it 4 or 5 times. The biggest hole on the defense was at middle linebacker, but the third guy on my list and everyone else's list dropped to the 5th round, so I guess I had know Idea how the position was being evaluated by professionals. The 4th guy on my list didn't even get drafted. I would have liked to see us keep our 4th round picks. I saw good value throughout the 4th round and without them it really limited the Packers ability to move around the draft on the third day.

I thought this receiver class was quite deep, but the lack of players selected in the first round also surprised me. The Packers didn't think any receiver in this draft was worth spending a pick on compared to the guys they already have in house.

I thought this draft would be perfect to let the board fall to each pick for the Packers.

I think they drafted for need after that first pick, although their board clearly had Savage very high so need met with who they ranked there which is why they moved up.

As for ILB I think they like Martinez plenty and basically don't use 2 at a time anyway. You have a developmental guy in burks, so no reason to start over with that. They likely carry only 3 ILB and one will be the 7th rounder who will help on ST.

WR--again, we have guys that its too early to give up on. We have one stud. I think they can improve at the #2 spot, but want to let things play out another year to be sure the answer isn't on the roster....plus you have 12 throwing the rock so you like to have consistency at the position.

Not the way I would have attacked this draft, but I get the logic. And as I have said before. When you do it the way Gutes has you better be right..cuz if you're wrong you can Join MM in the canadian league soon.

[bobblehead]

This and a post in a different thread about Hayward and Tretter returning to health after leaving Green Bay got me thinking: are the chronic injuries the result of TT drafting brittle players, or are they the result of something McCarthy's regime did or didn't do, or are they something in the water, or are they just dumb luck? With regime change now consummated, if the injuries continue under Gute and the Flower, we will know it wasn't 1 or 2. Bulaga may well be the first pilot study.

I have long maintained it had to do with the way MM ran practices. You have to hit to know how to hit and not get injured. You don't learn it at 12 and then get away with only doing it on game days. MM tried to run ZBS without practicing it cuz he like the cut block, but didn't want to cut block his own players. As a result his players sucked at it and his D didn't defend against it well.

I don't buy the drafting brittle players argument as I would like to know how you identify who is brittle as many players have injuries and then play well. Others get hurt all the time.

[pbmax]

I have long maintained it had to do with the way MM ran practices. You have to hit to know how to hit and not get injured. You don't learn it at 12 and then get away with only doing it on game days. MM tried to run ZBS without practicing it cuz he like the cut block, but didn't want to cut block his own players. As a result his players sucked at it and his D didn't defend against it well.

I don't buy the drafting brittle players argument as I would like to know how you identify who is brittle as many players have injuries and then play well. Others get hurt all the time.

Most teams don't hit.

Most of the Packers injuries that keep popping up happen without contact. Especially hamstrings.

[bobblehead]

Most teams don't hit.

Most of the Packers injuries that keep popping up happen without contact. Especially hamstrings.

I realize that the league is heading that way, but based on your own information our injury situation got better after the newest collective bargaining basically FORCED other teams to practice like MM.

[pbmax]

I realize that the league is heading that way, but based on your own information our injury situation got better after the newest collective bargaining basically FORCED other teams to practice like MM.

No hitting in weekly practices has been the norm for close to 30 years, and its been deceasing in camp for a long time as well.

And the absolute number of missed games also came down.

[bobblehead]

No hitting in weekly practices has been the norm for close to 30 years, and its been deceasing in camp for a long time as well.

And the absolute number of missed games also came down.

But not in training camp. Minnesota used to have a reputation for hitting in camp and they started every season 5-1 despite inferior talent. Just like I think the OL almost always makes the RB (there are a few exceptions of course), you and I will agree to disagree on this point.

Edit: I watched Tennesee evolve last season under LaFlower. Watch as by midseason we are shocked at the steal we got in the 6th round and we are amazed that Jamal Williams took a huge step forward in his running skills....hint, we added 2 new OL and a better scheme.

[run pMc]

Maybe that's why Minnesota always faded down the stretch.

Generally I agree the OL makes the RB, although there are some RBs who are elite talents and can make a mediocre line look better than they are.

[Deputy Nutz]

Just to be clear, at no level of football do teams practice cut blocks against their own. That is the most foolish practice you can plan. There are cut blocking drills you can practice and achieve the same results. Live cut blocking doesn't happen in football practice, ever. Even in a scrimmage I think I would loose my fucking marbles if I saw it from another team. A couple of years ago I was watching our Freshman play, and the other team had their defensive linemen cut our pulling linemen and I verbally assaulted the opposing team's coaching staff after the game. There are no State Championships for Freshman football. Teach your kids to play it the right way instead of resorting to bullshit that can seriously injure a 14 year old kid.

[George Cumby]

I want a Barney Fuckdoggle Round 5 and down.