WHO Wins the Next Super Bowl, the CLEVELAND BROWNS or GREEN BAY PACKERS ??

[Bretsky]

Some have serious concerns over how Marcia is guiding our Green Bay Packers; others take a wait and see attitude. But it seems like few like the new structure.

We had windows to hire an experienced GM, or at least bring one in to be the heir apparent and took a pass.

So now we have a new leadership team in place, and the Cleveland Browns have ambushed our Green Bay Packers and hired some of the talent that has spent many years at Lombardi Avenue in the same structure many of us hoped Green Bay would still have.

They at least appear to be killing it in Cleveland. If we fail to have a winning season this will be the first time we've had 3 of these in a row in the past 33 years.

So my simple question is, who wins the first Super Bowl in the next 25 years.......

The Cleveland Browns, or our Green Bay Packers ??

[Tony Oday]

Packers win it this year.

[pbmax]

Still have Rodgers.

[Zool]

Where’s the option for “Cleveland will never win one”

[red]

depends on if our window has slammed shut or not

and if cleveland has finally gotten their shit together for real or not

it wouldn't shock me at this point if cleveland one one before we do

[George Cumby]

Still have Rodgers.

ASPRH.

[bobblehead]

If you hated the way TT used FA then you should love Gutes. I was a fan of TT and although I believe that we needed to spend a bit this offseason I think the "win now" thingy went overboard. We gave up valuable mid round picks and put ourselves up against the cap. I prefer long term success because I see win now lose over and over again. Maybe having Rodgers is the difference. Maybe he intends to tank 2 seasons after ARod retires.

But bottom line is this. If Gutes was right on his picks and his gambles he is a good GM. If not...he is Mike Sherman.

[gbgary]

i'll say cle. i think cle has the better overall team. their major qb competitors are all getting old (brady, ben, brees, rodgers) and have no cap room. look out for ind, kc, and sf. they might have something to say about it.

[mraynrand]

Neither. The NFL as we know it will cease to exist without a SB victory for either team. And Buffalo and Detroit too.

[Zool]

And Minnesota

[Bretsky]

i'll say cle. i think cle has the better overall team. their major qb competitors are all getting old (brady, ben, brees, rodgers) and have no cap room. look out for ind, kc, and sf. they might have something to say about it.


Then go Vote !!!! :)

[RashanGary]

Cleveland is good. They’re setup for a run. Packers are too though and the Packers are my team so I gotta go green and gold here.

[RashanGary]

Green Bay next but Cleveland will get one soon too. Ohio will love it!

[Patler]

Green Bay vs Cleveland in Super Bowl LIV. :-)

[Deputy Nutz]

Cleveland has hired the right front office people, although I don't really like the Beckham trade, in the end it provides another weapon on an offense that needs weapons. Kitchens is an interesting hire, but so is LaFluer. I like the front office of the Browns better than the Packers.

[Deputy Nutz]

Green Bay vs Cleveland in Super Bowl LIV. :-)

I mean, it is possible. One is an AFC team, the other is a NFC team.

[mraynrand]

Green Bay vs Cleveland in Super Bowl LIV. :-)

Super Bowl LIV and let DII.

[Patler]

I like the front office of the Browns better than the Packers.

Interesting comment. Why do you feel that way?

I really don't know. I look at the Cleveland front office and I see guys who Green Bay knew they would lose, yet passed them over anyway. I also see other guys who are names on the screen, but otherwise completely unknown to me.

I don't know what to think of Dorsey. Seemed like a guy who did his job well in GB, then KC. I don't understand why he was ousted in KC.

What do you see in the Browns front office that makes you like it more?

[Patler]

I mean, it is possible. One is an AFC team, the other is a NFC team.

Just to show how really old I am, Cleveland in the "upstart" AFC (nee AFL) still sounds wrong to me!

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't like the three headed monster in the front office. You have Gute and Ball who thought they would both be the GM in the defining way that Ted was, instead Ted's job got divided between them and neither one of them are happy about it. Murphy isn't a football mind, he is the CEO and yet he over sees everything and everyone. Too many cooks in the kitchen and a sketchy restaurant manager is my analogy.

The Packers would have been happy to keep Elliot Wolf, but not as the GM.

[pbmax]

The Packers would have been happy to keep Elliot Wolf, but not as the GM.

I think that is exactly right about Wolf the Younger. I think the person who has the highest opinion of Eliot, besides himself, is his father.

He didn't make the final tier of candidates in San Fran, so its not just Murphy that harbors doubts.

The Silverstein article about the new org chart reminded me that Doug Whaley was a finalist for Packers GM, not Wolf. He did some good things in Buffalo, but I think was ultimately undone by coaching changes and ownership changes and lost his base of support. He was all in on defense and Taylor at QB but the new people were not. He built a whale of a defense there.

[Patler]

I don't like the three headed monster in the front office. You have Gute and Ball who thought they would both be the GM in the defining way that Ted was, instead Ted's job got divided between them and neither one of them are happy about it. Murphy isn't a football mind, he is the CEO and yet he over sees everything and everyone. Too many cooks in the kitchen and a sketchy restaurant manager is my analogy.

The Packers would have been happy to keep Elliot Wolf, but not as the GM.

I'm taking an optimistic, but wait and see attitude about the new structure. An NFL franchise in all its aspects, and the complexity and detail in the operation of the team itself have and are changing. There was a time when people thought it was illogical to think a coach could be held responsible for the performance of a team if he didn't have control over selecting the players on it. There is no reason why three leaders of distinct, defined duties can't each operate for a combined good.

I've seen successful businesses with independent, strong leaders in engineering, manufacturing and sales; none subordinate to another, each on a common plane below their president or CEO who wasn't necessarily an expert in any let alone all of those functions. It works. The Packers could be on the leading edge of how NFL franchises will be structured in the future.

I'm not worried about Murphy at all. He has been involved in the industry his entire life. He had a successful career as a player, has experience working for both the players union and the league. He has executive experience hiring and firing coaches and balancing the needs of competing interests.

What indication has there been that Ball and Gutekunst were unhappy, as opposed to surprised? Even if they were unhappy initially, it's not critical. Corporate America is filled with executives who initially received less than they wanted, yet still perform well in the arrangement to the overall success of the company.

I don't know if it will work or not, but there is no inherent reason that can't work. It's up to the individuals.


Maybe GB would have been happy to keep Wolf, probably Highsmith, too; just like years ago they would have been happy to keep Schneider, Dorsey, McKenzie and others. Even Thompson and others before that. Their strength has been in having others ready to move into the same positions.

[Patler]

I think that is exactly right about Wolf the Younger. I think the person who has the highest opinion of Eliot, besides himself, is his father.

He didn't make the final tier of candidates in San Fran, so its not just Murphy that harbors doubts.


I always had and expressed concerns about the Wolf puppy. He had a lot of "co-x" positions that had shared responsibilities with another older, more experienced person. Maybe he will eventually be a great GM, but I didn't want the Packers to turn over the franchise to him just yet.

I really dislike that Wolf the elder seems to think that somehow the Packers were unfair to his kid. Was he clearly more deserving than Gutekunst, Ball, Highsmith or others?

[mraynrand]

I always had and expressed concerns about the Wolf puppy. He had a lot of "co-x" positions that had shared responsibilities with another older, more experienced person. Maybe he will eventually be a great GM, but I didn't want the Packers to turn over the franchise to him just yet.

I really dislike that Wolf the elder seems to think that somehow the Packers were unfair to his kid. Was he clearly more deserving than Gutekunst, Ball, Highsmith or others?

I think at this point in his career, it's like putting the 'Red October' Jack Ryan in control of the CIA. Maybe it works out, but it's a gamble. Let him cut his teeth elsewhere.

[gbgary]

Then go Vote !!!! :)
d'oh!

i'll say cle. i think cle has the better overall team. their major competitor's qb's are all old (brady, ben, brees, rodgers) and they have no cap room. look out for ind, kc, and sf. they might have something to say about it.
*proofread and corrected*

[gbgary]

depends on if our window has slammed shut or not

and if cleveland has finally gotten their shit together for real or not

it wouldn't shock me at this point if cleveland one one before we do

then go vote! :-)

[Zool]

I think the person who has the highest opinion of Eliot, besides himself, is his father.

Bretsky would like a word with you.

[pbmax]

Bretsky would like a word with you.

The triangle of superiority.

[RashanGary]

I see things very similarly, Patler. I was a little worried about Lafleur. He’s so young. But listening to all of the press conferences yesterday, I was impressed how empowered and engaged the new coaches seemed. I liked what the secondary coach said about the safeties and corners being in the same room, promoting continuity and how they are blending several of the rooms now so the whole defense can function as one unit.

We’ll see on the offense. I know very little about lafleaur but the one thing I’ve noticed that makes me feel hopeful is the engagement of the rest of the coaching staff. I don’t think coaches had as much empowerment under McCarthy and it limited the passion and enthusiasm.

Gute seems more communicative with the coaching staff based on the coaches verbally mentioning their conversations with Gute. I don’t remember hearing that often with Thompson. I think Gute is benefiting from not being bogged down with non roster football operations.

And I see Murphy as incredibly competent and qualified to work with all three guys.

Murphy, Gute, Ball and Pettine all seem incredibly competent in very important spots. I have my doubts about Lafleur but we shall see. We shall see.

[Bretsky]

Interesting comment. Why do you feel that way?

I really don't know. I look at the Cleveland front office and I see guys who Green Bay knew they would lose, yet passed them over anyway. I also see other guys who are names on the screen, but otherwise completely unknown to me.

I don't know what to think of Dorsey. Seemed like a guy who did his job well in GB, then KC. I don't understand why he was ousted in KC.

What do you see in the Browns front office that makes you like it more?

Seriously ?

I'd take Dorsey in a second over Guter; Dorsey was great here and great in KC but him and Reid clashed at times. Then I'd take Eliott Wolf over whoever in the hell out #2 guy is. Wait......Who he hell is #2 ?

Oh, that's right.

Marcia is really in charge......and I'd undoubtedly take Dorsey running my organization over Marcia Marcia Marcia

And then Gooter, Russ Ball, fall somewhere in there.....what a f'cked up setup

I'd undoubtedly take Dorsey and Eliott Wolf over Marica and Gooter

And I'll take ALONZO HIGHSMITH back to over our scouts.

[Bretsky]

Bretsky would like a word with you.

YA; What the F'CK !!!

I definitely value Eliott Wolf more than his father does !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[call_me_ishmael]

I think Dorsey was pushed out of KC largely because of personality (he wasn't very organized allegedly), and he got the team in cap trouble with several "bad" contracts to vets. Unbelievable drafter though.

When Dorsey was cut loose mid-season, it shocked me at the time the Packers didn’t bring him in house as a consultant if only to get his name in the hat. Maybe they tried, who knows.

[pbmax]

I think Dorsey was pushed out of KC largely because of personality (he wasn't very organized allegedly), and he got the team in cap trouble with several "bad" contracts to vets. Unbelievable drafter though.

When Dorsey was cut loose mid-season, it shocked me at the time the Packers didn’t bring him in house as a consultant if only to get his name in the hat. Maybe they tried, who knows.

Someone also decided to risk choices on Hunt and Hill.