Josh Jones Organizes One Man OTA in Florida

[pbmax]

Zach Kruse at PackerWire at USAToday

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/10/theres-still-room-for-josh-jones-in-the-packers-defense/

Made the case that the 3rd safety spot for Pettine's big nickel (the Jermaine Whitehead role last year) seems almost tailor made for Jones. Close to LOS, run support, playing downhill and covering short routes and TE.

But his Tweet indicates that by not being able to beat out Whitehead, who the Packers released after he punched his way to a personal foul penalty, might have been a bad sign. He couldn't beat out replacement level players to start. Bad sign.

Zach Kruse @zachkruse2
Thought there was still room for Josh Jones in Mike Pettine's #Packers defense (see here: https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/10/theres-still-room-for-josh-jones-in-the-packers-defense/ …) but maybe not. He couldn't beat out Kentrell Brice or Jermaine Whitehead for playing time last year.

[mraynrand]

Hell, they grabbed Eddie "Burying McCarthy" Pleasant at the iHOP on the way over to the stadium for that game against the Cardinals and threw him in there before Jones (Jones actually had an OK game that day...). And still, Jones must know more than we do about how the coaches feel about him, and it probably ain't good. Makes me wonder if Mt. Adams is thinking along the same lines...

[Patler]

Hell, they grabbed Eddie "Burying McCarthy" Pleasant at the iHOP on the way over to the stadium for that game against the Cardinals and threw him in there before Jones (Jones actually had an OK game that day...). And still, Jones must know more than we do about how the coaches feel about him, and it probably ain't good. Makes me wonder if Mt. Adams is thinking along the same lines...

It's up to the players to change their coaches' perceptions about them. Both Adams and Jones have two years yet on their contracts. Very little is given you in sports, you have to go out and earn it, even if it requires changing you own self-perception and remaking who you are as a player.

[mraynrand]

It's up to the players to change their coaches' perceptions about them. Both Adams and Jones have two years yet on their contracts. Very little is given you in sports, you have to go out and earn it, even if it requires changing you own self-perception and remaking who you are as a player.

True. And after years of watching this stuff, you can just kinda tell when a guy isn't making the cut. Jones, Mt. Adams - I guess I would be shocked to see either pull a Brian Williams type turnaround out their hats at this point.

[Patler]

True. And after years of watching this stuff, you can just kinda tell when a guy isn't making the cut. Jones, Mt. Adams - I guess I would be shocked to see either pull a Brian Williams type turnaround out their hats at this point.

I have more hope for Adams than Jones. I thought Adams actually came on a bit at the end of last season. Jones is showing to be unwilling to fight for a spot.

[gbgary]

wasn't all that surprised. it's not like he didn't let everyone know, last year, he was dissatisfied with his playing time. a. jones, king, j. williams, and m. adams are all that's left of that draft.

[pbmax]

Mt Adams lined up with the ones yesterday. I say the two are on different paths now. We'll see.

Jones just might need a few weeks for the cognitive recalibration to kick in.

[MadScientist]

Jones can't have much confidence in his abilities, or he'd say 'fuck the newcomers, I'm going to win a starting safety position'. Still he has physical tools, and could be useful for depth if he removes his head from his ass.

[Joemailman]

At some point, Gutey will have to decide whether the Packers want to keep a guy who says he doesn't want to be here. But the Packers don't owe him a damn thing, especially since by going public with his grievance, he has lessened whatever little trade value he had. Mandatory minicamp is June 12-14. We'll see then if he's posturing, or if he really won't agree to play for the Packers.

[pbmax]

Jones can't have much confidence in his abilities, or he'd say 'fuck the newcomers, I'm going to win a starting safety position'. Still he has physical tools, and could be useful for depth if he removes his head from his ass.

That is why I think there is a valid chance he knows his ship is sunk. Think someone made a similar point earlier.

But if he knows he can't fill the role he is being asked to fill, then trading him is the best thing. Making it public though doesn't help on that front.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe they had him slated to switch to ILB, and he didn't like the idea.

[RashanGary]

I doubt he has much value in a trade. If I'm Gutekunst, I make an example of him and do nothing. If he misses mandatory things, I fine him. If he does not report to camp, I retain his rights and let him sit. If he reports and is a problem, I deal with it then.

Agreed. He has no value. Good time to set a hard example. Plus, Gutey is new. It will set a tone for his tenure.

[bobblehead]

Maybe they had him slated to switch to ILB, and he didn't like the idea.

Why? He was drafted for basically that hybrid role. MM fucked around and used him out of position as a typical safety (where have I seen MM misuse players before?)

When he was picked everyone comped him to Deonne Bucannon and had him pegged as the newest saftey/ILB hybrid guy, but just like MM failed to evolve by using RB out of the backfield he failed to evolve with actually STOPPING RB out of the backfield.

What he should be pissed about is that they spent the last few years NOT using him that way.

edit: I expect Ty Montgomery to have a great year in NY following the trend set by Hyde and Randall...2 other guys fat mike couldn't figure out how to use.

[pbmax]

Agreed. He has no value. Good time to set a hard example. Plus, Gutey is new. It will set a tone for his tenure.

At some point the talent needs to play though. Gutes spent a good amount of time and personnel sending messages last year. Dix, Monty, Whitehead.

[mraynrand]

Why? He was drafted for basically that hybrid role. MM fucked around and used him out of position as a typical safety (where have I seen MM misuse players before?)

Wait, are you saying Stubby was running the defense?

[mraynrand]

edit: I expect Ty Montgomery to have a great year in NY following the trend set by Hyde and Randall...2 other guys fat mike couldn't figure out how to use.

Wait, are you saying Stubby decided how to (not) use Hyde and Randall?

The Ravens sure put Monty to good use straight away, no? (15 to 14 yards rushing/game; 24 to 11 yards receiving). I guess they just didn't recognize the dynamo they had on hand for 6 games.

[theeaterofshades]

Sounds like the typical dude whoiwas worshipped in HS and College. Had evewrything handed to him and didn't have to work hard for what he was given. I would rather have a team of hard workers like Driver, Jordy, Tramon, etc... Guys that had to work hard to prove themselves, and not pout if they didn't gert what they wanted/expected.... they worked even harder to get past it. Sorry Josh, but you need to prove it on the field (both practice and games). This is not Walled Lake Western HS or NC State.

[pbmax]

Sounds like the typical dude whoiwas worshipped in HS and College. Had evewrything handed to him and didn't have to work hard for what he was given. I would rather have a team of hard workers like Driver, Jordy, Tramon, etc... Guys that had to work hard to prove themselves, and not pout if they didn't gert what they wanted/expected.... they worked even harder to get past it. Sorry Josh, but you need to prove it on the field (both practice and games). This is not Walled Lake Western HS or NC State.

That is the Schottenheimer developmental philosophy and leads to a lot of playoff losses.

Wait a minute, pretty sure this is exactly what the Packers have had since 2012.

Need some of the athletic marvels to be developed and used correctly. Any standard issue coach can throw out the malcontents and those who are not listening and get a bunch of try hard guys to over perform. None of them win titles.

[bobblehead]

Wait, are you saying Stubby decided how to (not) use Hyde and Randall?

The Ravens sure put Monty to good use straight away, no? (15 to 14 yards rushing/game; 24 to 11 yards receiving). I guess they just didn't recognize the dynamo they had on hand for 6 games.

He actually flashed a bit with the Ravens, but its tough to walk onto a team week whatever and fit right in.

Monty isn't a GREAT back, but he is a back that should leak out and catch 3-4 passes a game. He can get another 5-7 touches rushing on draws or called running plays. I don't think he is a feature back, but in a league where James White must be accounted for there is a use for Monty.

And yes, I think Stubby made the calls on keeping randall and hyde CBs. We actually used Hyde ok, its more on TT for letting him walk. MM didn't like randall lobbying to replace Jones as the FS....but randall was right.

[bobblehead]

That is the Schottenheimer developmental philosophy and leads to a lot of playoff losses.

Wait a minute, pretty sure this is exactly what the Packers have had since 2012.

Need some of the athletic marvels to be developed and used correctly. Any standard issue coach can throw out the malcontents and those who are not listening and get a bunch of try hard guys to over perform. None of them win titles.

Exactly. Ghostpepper has a skill set. Its basically the ILB/S hybrid. He has flashed at times, but because of injury and...doghouse?...he has been overlooked at the only position he has the skill set to play.

[mraynrand]

And yes, I think Stubby made the calls on keeping randall and hyde CBs.

Can you source this?

[pbmax]

Can you source this?

I can't source it but my belief has always been that Capers would have been telling M3 that Hyde would always need to be a backup safety. Valuable, but no more than situational nickel/dime guy. As in replaceable.

Randall got the boot soon after McCarthy got more juice. No source, just seems like the sun coming up given the events as they happened. Though I remember no one predicting it.

I think this applies to Hayward too though injury calculation probably played a role here. Capers would not have liked Hayward's results in man corner on deep routes his last year back after the leg injuries.

[mraynrand]

I can't source it but my belief has always been that Capers would have been telling M3 that Hyde would always need to be a backup safety. Valuable, but no more than situational nickel/dime guy. As in replaceable.

Randall got the boot soon after McCarthy got more juice. No source, just seems like the sun coming up given the events as they happened. Though I remember no one predicting it.

I think this applies to Hayward too though injury calculation probably played a role here. Capers would not have liked Hayward's results in man corner on deep routes his last year back after the leg injuries.

I don't see how this is Stubby deciding how to use/not use these guys. Randall it seems was let go for personality issues - wasn't there a partially verified rumor that players asked he be dealt with?

I just don;'t believe Stubby was controlling how these guys were used. I could see them not working well at what ever position and for character issues and Stubby wanting them gone/being OK with letting them go. I just don't buy the direct interference with defensive schemes. Even Capers pooh-poohed Stubby's direct involvement when I asked him about it. He literally rolled his eyes when asked "How much time do you think 'ol Stubbers will spend in the defensive position meetings?" Answer: "Not much, It would really cut into his massage time"

[pbmax]

I don't see how this is Stubby deciding how to use/not use these guys. Randall it seems was let go for personality issues - wasn't there a partially verified rumor that players asked he be dealt with?

I just don;'t believe Stubby was controlling how these guys were used. I could see them not working well at what ever position and for character issues and Stubby wanting them gone/being OK with letting them go. I just don't buy the direct interference with defensive schemes. Even Capers pooh-poohed Stubby's direct involvement when I asked him about it. He literally rolled his eyes when asked "How much time do you think 'ol Stubbers will spend in the defensive position meetings?" Answer: "Not much, It would really cut into his massage time"

I got ya. Agreed, McCarthy wasn't devoting a lot of time to discern Micah Hyde's hidden talents and the best uses for him on defense. His work with Capers was about personnel groups and playing the pass first and not being afraid of throwing the nickel out there. I think bobble is overselling M4's role in misusing players.

I would give M4 a demerit for allowing this to continue through several years. There seems to have been no internal consistency between personnel and coaches about who was paying where at times and this was not simply Capers fault. He has a system and the Packers did not always draft to it.

But I believe he supported the staff's positions about how these players would be used and that helped inform the personnel decisions about who to keep for what price. Thompson would have to be very in love for a second contract to be offered at starting player wages for a guy who was the 3rd safety or CB. Russ Ball would have gotten very red-faced.

I cannot prove, but am heavy leaning toward, McCarthy being the impetus for Randall's departure. But, as you say, it wasn't positional necessarily. It was for the popping off and melting down on the field; even if he was just mad at Jones.

[Bretsky]

SCREW JOSH JONES

TELL HIS AGENT TO GET US A THIRD ROUND PICK (which we won't get) OR WE EXPECT HIS PUNK ASS IN CAMP

[pbmax]

That post above should have said "M3's role in misusing players"

To the degree that there was a problem in communication between departments under Ted, this is the area I think was affected.

Who to play where and why.