The 2019 NFC NORTH Title?

[Radagast]

As a forum discussion thread, let us look at the NFC's Northern Division. Will the Bears improve yet again and win the division again? Will the Vikings pull it together to finish first? Can the Lions crawl out of the basement of the division in 2019? With a new HC and new offensive system and a revamped defense, how far can GB's Packers go in 2019?

This is not a rah rah thread to give the loyal zombies of any team a platform to post on, but a serious thread where the Viking's secondary is set/compared against the Bear's receivers. The Packer's running attack is set/compared against the Lions Defense. (etc.)

Who is expected to improve/not improve over last season and in just what way?

[texaspackerbacker]

The Bears played way over their heads last year and seem to have taken a couple of steps backward. They have a pass rush and not much else. Receivers? Come on.

The Vikings are chronically under-achieving chokers; I don't see them as improved much at all. They're supposed to have quality DBs? Were those just random hypotheticals you mentioned? Receivers, for example, are the strength of the Vikings.

The Lions aren't going anyplace. They haven't been good for a long time and still aren't. What is the strength of their team? Do they even have one?

Barring injury to Aaron Rodgers, the Packers shouldn't have a problem with any of them.

[pbmax]

Vikings are currently locked into a death struggle with their TE because they are nearing cap hell.

Packers just tried to get a waiver TE and lost him to the Bucs or Jags who had a higher waiver claim. I wonder if the Bikes release Rudolph if the Packers would be interested?

Probably too much money at that position already though.

[Joemailman]

Bears will find it is really hard to win as many as 12 games in consecutive years. Two reasons: Everybody gets pumped up to play you, and there are things you did to win 12 games that are hard to duplicate. In the Bears case, it is 27 INT's by their defense. Packers woll give them a run for the title if Rodgers stays healthy.

[RashanGary]

Graham had a broken thumb last year in November that messed his game up. Him and Rodgers are starting over in a new offense, on the same page, but have a year together. Graham was with Rodgers and company at the Kentucky Durby this year. I have a feeling Graham has one more big year in him.

So Adams, Graham, Allison, MVS and the other young guys should be enough for Rodgers to make plays with this year.

Zadarius, Preston, Gary, Amos, Savage and the progression of the second year defense along with King,
Lancaster and Jackson should make for a much improved defense.

Scott and Bradley should be improved in their second years, so the STs should be better

Lane Taylors ankle slowed him down starting last season and Bulaga was coming off a major knee that slowed him. Both should be improved along with Turner and Jenkins pushing to be better at RG,

Let’s hope a new coach can convince Rodgers to run the ball and play within the system.

At the end of the day, we have a really good shot at being a much better team. I think the Packers win the division.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Rah rah rah. Go Pack Go!

This is the Vikes last season of their SB window. Next year starts their 2 seasons of big cap issues. They are going to lose a lot of players. So expect some urgency there. If they have a .500 season or worse, Zim's on the hot seat.

[George Cumby]

Trubisky needs to make some strides this year for the Bears to win 12 again. Idk if I see that happening.

[Radagast]

Bravo fellows, now I see it going this way.

The Lions will finish last again. I believe their biggest problem is their management.

The Vikings will be both HOT and COLD. Their lack of consistency will see them finish in third place.

The Bears will finish in second place and enter the playoffs as a Wildcard Team.

The Packers will win the division and take the second playoff seed and get a week to rest before the Divisional playoff round. How far they go beyond that will depend on injuries, weather, and luck.

[Bretsky]

I still think the bears are ascending. They hav their an for years and have built a killer d. I see gb and Minnesota competing for second. The lions are a distant last place

[The Shadow]

Losing Vic Fangio is going to be a MUCH bigger factor for the Bears. Combine that with having Mitch Trubisky at QB, and the league having a year to study Nagy's scheme - and I like the Pack's chances.

[Upnorth]

It's the bears to lose. I don't think they are world beaters, and I expect some defensive regression but who will be better? The Vikings look more like last year's team is the accurate outcome than two years ago results. I think the Lions are better than their record and closer to two years ago as well.
The Packers are a crap shoot. Was McCarthy holding us together or back? I'm hoping he was holding us back and we see an exciting return to offensive excellence, but either way we finally have the potential for a better pass rush and that should help a ton on d.

My gut says the Packers win the division but I am worried that is my personal bias. How much do you trust our non Adams receivers????

I'm looking forward to jace Sternberg and seeing him and graham in a two te set.... If our front 5 can provide protection it could be almost unstoppable. Adams, Allison, graham Sternberg and Jones in the back field, try to tell me that doesn't have potential.

[run pMc]

Mack is a year older, Nagy's scheme isn't new, and Trubisky is as good as the scheme and supporting players. Some days he's on fire and others he looks like a journeyman. The Bears are the NFCN champs so they are the team to beat. HHCD for Amos is not a step up. I thought Jordan Howard was a good player, but they replaced him with David Montgomery, which feels like swapping a known for an unknown. Riley Ridley was probably a good pick, the Bears WR's are ok. I think the Packers defense could give them trouble with improved QB pressure this year.

Vikings are hard to peg -- they almost always start fast and then will either find ways to sustain it or fade. Their defense is aging, and the turmoil in the offensive coaching staff last year is presumably gone, but I'd put Zimmer on the hot seat. They paid Cousins elite QB money to take them to the SB, if Zimmer can't find a way into the playoffs the Wilfs may push for someone who can. Vikings are trying to fix their OL issues, and they have very good WRs. Sheldon Richardson is gone, Barr resigned to tons of money, and who knows what Everson Griffin will do. Harrison Smith and Xavier Rhodes solidify their secondary, but it's often hard to figure MIN out until 6 games in.

I thought Matt Patricia might not last the season in DET, but he managed to survive. Seems like he and Bob Quinn are trying to duplicate the Patriots recipe without having the formula for the secret sauce. Quick: name the Lions best player. Finally, Matt Stafford is a good QB, but he's no Tom Brady. Kerryon Johnson had a pretty good season, Golliday and Marvin Jones are decent and they drafted another TE high (Hockenson). They signed Trey Flowers and Darius Slay can cover, but despite all this an 8 win season would feel like a surprise. I think if Rodgers is given time he can beat that defense. Aaron Jones and Dexter Williams and MVS on the Ford Field turf?

Rookie coaches often struggle, and I worry about the relative youth/inexperience of GB's staff. They have a high school coach in the TE room, for chrissake. Maybe they are all super bright and it won't matter, maybe MLF is the exception. It really comes down to Rodgers, better OL play, Year 2 of Pettine, actual safeties, and hoping for better health. They will need a lot to go right to get back to the playoffs, but each team has its warts.
The defense will have to win some games, and they might actually have (most of) the pieces to do it. Who plays next to Martinez? Can MLF use Jimmy Graham better? Will someone start a Marcedes Lewis bandwagon after he has a 2 catch game? Rodgers is saying all the right things now, but we'll know in October if this team is for real. I think improving the OL will help them -- they were leaking at guard -- but I still worry about OT depth. A Year 2 leap from the young WRs will be needed, and I think at least 1 if not 2 will do it. G-Mo makes for a nice security blanket, but keeping Adams healthy is a must or -- if you go off last year -- this becomes possibly the worst WR group in the division. I need to lookup how the Shanahan tree has historically done against the Zimmers and other defenses in the division.

[Zool]

Bears 10-6, Pack 8-8....Vikings are the wildcard but I think as long as they have Cousins at QB, they are stuck in neutral. 1 step forward and 1 step back.





And then the Lions

[RashanGary]

Bears 10-6, Pack 8-8....Vikings are the wildcard but I think as long as they have Cousins at QB, they are stuck in neutral. 1 step forward and 1 step back.





And then the Lions

If the Packers go 8-8 after spending 150+ million dollars in free agency and getting a 12, 21 and 44th overall draft pick, and not loosing anyone, I’ll be pissed.

[hoosier]

Bears had a lot of luck with overall team health last year. This year they revert to a m7ore typical team health picture and finish 9-7, 8-8. I have no idea what Packers will do.

[Zool]

If the Packers go 8-8 after spending 150+ million dollars in free agency and getting a 12, 21 and 44th overall draft pick, and not loosing anyone, I’ll be pissed.

How often do you overhaul most of a staff and go above .500?

[The Shadow]

How often do you overhaul most of a staff and go above .500?

The Bears did it last year.

[RashanGary]

How often do you overhaul most of a staff and go above .500?

They spent a ton of money and have none left to spend. The defense is in its second year. The OL and QB are very experienced and high paid. That experience should make for far less chaos than young players in those stabilizing positions. Adams, Graham, Jones and Allison also bring experience with the QB to the table. One or both of MVS and St Brown have a shot in their second seasobs to take a big jump, especially since they’re starting on page one with the QB.


I’m not giving excuses, honestly. If the defense was starting over as well I’d be more patient. But I see no reason to lose with Rodgers, that OL and just enough skill pieces to be dangerous. No excuse other than injury IMO.

[RashanGary]

Amos is hyper responsible. Savage is smart, talented and driven. That back end should be cleaned up. Smith, Smith and Gary stabilize the EDGE position. I just don’t see how we should be expecting anything less than top 10, honestly. Especially when you spend every penny. No excuses there, other than injury.

[George Cumby]

^ Who’s willing to bet a paycheck on Rodgers playing all 16 regular season games?

[mraynrand]

^ Who’s willing to bet a paycheck on Rodgers playing all 16 regular season games?

Considering I don't have a paycheck rn, I'm all in. Plus, this is the year that back-up guy will start throwing accurate timely passes. I'm sure of it. I'll wager my paycheck.

[red]

the nfc north is gonna be as crazy and goofy as it is every year

any one of the teams could end up first or last imo

[ThunderDan]

^ Who’s willing to bet a paycheck on Rodgers playing all 16 regular season games?

I would. ARod has been healthy for years at a time. He got hit late and landed on his shoulder. He got rolled on a knee. Averages say he should be back to his normal self.

[gbgary]

the bears will be at least as good as they were last year. they're schedule is tougher but they've added more than they lost.

[Zool]

the bears will be at least as good as they were last year. they're schedule is tougher but they've added more than they lost.

They caught a bunch of good luck last year. It takes a lot to win 12 games, they will fall a game or 2.

[Radagast]

the bears will be at least as good as they were last year. they're schedule is tougher but they've added more than they lost.

I have, regretfully, overlooked how the schedules of the NFC North teams will affect their end result. With the exception of 2 games for each team, they will all play the same opposing teams. So what teams do the Bears play that make their upcoming schedule tougher than that of the other teams? No harm intended, but this area deserves more research and discussion. :drma:

[gbgary]

I have, regretfully, overlooked how the schedules of the NFC North teams will affect their end result. With the exception of 2 games for each team, they will all play the same opposing teams. So what teams do the Bears play that make their upcoming schedule tougher than that of the other teams? No harm intended, but this area deserves more research and discussion. :drma:

they play two 1st place teams...rams, saints. we got 3rd place teams...panthers, niners.

[gbgary]

They caught a bunch of good luck last year. It takes a lot to win 12 games, they will fall a game or 2.

i didn't mean that they'll win 12. i meant they'd probably win the north. trubiski's good, they added some weapons to their o, their d's probably static from last year...maybe a tad less. they're the team to beat in the north.

[gbgary]

................

[mraynrand]

i didn't mean that they'll win 12. i meant they'd probably win the north. trubiski's good, they added some weapons to their o, their d's probably static from last year...maybe a tad less. they're the team to beat in the north.

Trubby needs to develop a long game, or they get stuck at 11 wins. That's probably enough to win the north with GB-Vikes-Bears all taking shots at each other. I suppose it's possible that Detroit competes, but I see them as an 8 win team at best.

[pbmax]

The Bears did it last year.

Wasn't that year 2?

EDIT: It was not.

[bobblehead]

Lions: Last in the division. This team has been a mess for as long as I can remember. Management is lost. Stafford underachieves. They put themselves into bad contracts consistently. They draft TE's in the top 10. Top it off, Stafford HAS to be distracted as his wife is in really bad health (wish her well though). I can't see them being very good.

Vikings: I think they are a tad better than last year, but things like contract holdouts wear on an entire team. We saw how bad the packers can be with a team in disarray. The pressure of win now gets worse with each passing game. I still think Zim puts a really good D on the field and they have enough talent to win a division, but they have 2 big problems....Rodgers rebuilt and Da Bears. They need a really fast start so the distractions stop being brought up.

Bears: Will be really good. Defense is top notch. Losing DC will hurt though. I think they did ok with the picks they had, but didn't pick until 3rd round. Not much rookie help, but draft is overrated for first year production. They have to play a first place schedule this year. I see some regression in record and overall how good they are will depend on how the D performs with a new coach and how much the league can adjust to the offense that doesn't feature a marquee QB.

Packers: Although I hate win now approach and I said all offseason that we had too many holes to fill in one year....well, I didn't count on quite the spending spree put forth. And even though I don't like the approach, Gutes did address nearly every question I raised in pretty good fashion. Kool Aid is easy to drink this time of year, but every bitch I had about M3 is different with LaFlavor. Actual committment to an outside ZBS and calling running plays. You are going to see how much that helps a defense (if you aren't busy giving the new guys ALL the credit). Rodgers with a running game and a MODERN offense that utilized RBs out of the backfield...oh, if only we still had monty. No more disconnect of trying to force guys to play positions they aren't meant for. (looking at you Jones, get your ass in camp and learn the ILB spot).

I wish we hadn't traded 2 4ths to get our safety, but I get why he was their guy. I don't like spending up against the cap, but I understand each signing. We targeted guys going into a 2nd contract who were ascending. That is where you are supposed to put the money. Thing is, when you sell out you HAVE to be right on 90% of your plays. I like the direction Gutes headed, but for my taste it was too much too fast. If he is right we could have a top 5 defense and the offense I have begged for. If he gets it wrong on 2 of the 4 FA signings and Savage isn't really the savior....well, its going to be a cold looooong winter for the foreseeable future.

[mraynrand]

^^^ Good analysis, especially how you have to be right 90% when you target players. That's what makes it riskier. Higher risk, higher reward - if your judgment was correct.

[run pMc]

Does anyone think, the NFL allegedly being a copycat league, that teams will have taken note of how the Patriots shut down the Rams and that stopping the Shan/McVay/La Flower offense won't be a mystery?

[texaspackerbacker]

Nice to see the relative positivity, Bobblehead.

Improving through free agency and draft and develop are not necessary incompatible. As long as you can go for some quality players without ending up in cap hell, it's a good thing - proven players at positions of need. And you still have the potential of young stars for the future without needing to throw them into the battle before they are ready. It also allows the team to take some risks in the draft - feast or famine type players like Gary and possibly a couple of others.

[Radagast]

they play two 1st place teams...rams, saints. we got 3rd place teams...panthers, niners.

While it's true that the Bears will play both the Rams and the Saints, they will do so with a different Kicker. Anyone remember Cody Parkey missed FGs that lost the Bears their Wildcard bid last season.

Also, the 49er's injured QB will return healthy and will, IMO, make them competitive this coming season. Along with Garoppolo returning, I expect to see them play better D this season as well. The Panthers are better than they showed last season. They will not be an automatic Win for any team in 2019.

GB should be very interesting from the start of TC moving forward. In particular the WR/TE battles will be highly entertaining.

IMO, the most improved NFC North squad will be the Packers defense. The additions/subtractions could prove to be game changers. :-)

[gbgary]

Nice to see the relative positivity, Bobblehead.

Improving through free agency and draft and develop are not necessary incompatible. As long as you can go for some quality players without ending up in cap hell, it's a good thing - proven players at positions of need. And you still have the potential of young stars for the future without needing to throw them into the battle before they are ready. It also allows the team to take some risks in the draft - feast or famine type players like Gary and possibly a couple of others.

true but why does gary have to be feast or famine? he could be in the middle too. would you take 10 years and 80 sacks?

[texaspackerbacker]

That's 8 sacks per year ....... yeah, I guess. It seems, though, if Fackrell is any indication, that Pettine's system is a good one for sack stats. So if that's the case, maybe we should expect more from a fairly high first round pick. It's also possible that 80 is unevenly distributed - only 3 or 4 the first couple of years with not many snaps, then he gets a lot more. We just have to wait and see.

[run pMc]

true but why does gary have to be feast or famine? he could be in the middle too. would you take 10 years and 80 sacks?

80 sacks in 10 years? Definitely.
In Pettine's defense? Absolutely.

[run pMc]

Fackrell lucked into a couple of sacks last year, and based on his play so far I just don't have confidence he can duplicate that.

Pettine's defense seems to bring pressure from a lot of places, so you end up with a lot of players with a few sacks. Blake Martinez had 5 sacks last year for goodness sake.
Averaging 8-10 sacks a year over a 10 year career is pretty good IMO. Looking at some Packers pass rushers of the past, that would put Gary about on par with Tim Harris or Clay Matthews, a little better than KGB, and well beyond Aaron Kampman. I'd take that.

[smuggler]

I have Bears regressing and finishing 9-7, third in the division.

[MadScientist]

Trubisky needs to make some strides this year for the Bears to win 12 again. Idk if I see that happening.

I agree that he needs to improve to keep the Bears at 12 wins, but he's going into his 3rd year, so it's not unreasonable to think he will improve. He's been in the offense for long enough to really get it, his coaches now get him, and he's seen what the NFL can throw at him. He should now be entering his prime, and we'll see what he really has.

OTOH, the Bears vaunted defense has taken a double hit with losing their coordinator and replacing Amos with HaHa.

[MadScientist]

How much do you trust our non Adams receivers????
Quite a bit actually. Allison for all he gets dinged around here due to his lack of top end speed is the epitome of an ideal possession receiver. He runs excellent routes, and has good hands. Rookie receivers rarely set the world on fire. MVS had more yards than Adams, Nelson, Cobb, Driver or Freeman had in their first years. Only Jennings in recent memory had more and that wasn't a whole lot more. Look for MVS and ESB to have good years. The only possible negative is if the receivers and Rodgers are not in sync due to the scheme change. OTOH receivers might actually be schemed open finally, meaning watch out rest of the league.

[Bretsky]

Amos is hyper responsible. Savage is smart, talented and driven. That back end should be cleaned up. Smith, Smith and Gary stabilize the EDGE position. I just don’t see how we should be expecting anything less than top 10, honestly. Especially when you spend every penny. No excuses there, other than injury.


I would agree with this; add we have about the best player in the NFL

We're going back to the playoffs. No excuse not to be

[texaspackerbacker]

You know that TV commercial currently going around - AT&T I think - "just ok"? That's what comes to mind when you talk about "going back to the playoffs". It ain't even close to enough with the talent the Packers have.

[gbgary]

That's 8 sacks per year ....... yeah, I guess. It seems, though, if Fackrell is any indication, that Pettine's system is a good one for sack stats. So if that's the case, maybe we should expect more from a fairly high first round pick. It's also possible that 80 is unevenly distributed - only 3 or 4 the first couple of years with not many snaps, then he gets a lot more. We just have to wait and see.


80 sacks in 10 years? Definitely.
In Pettine's defense? Absolutely.

10/83.5 is clay matthews btw (10/93 w/playoffs). feast is reggie white, famine is datone jones. so if gary can do 10/80 that's a good career.

[run pMc]

What would you consider a successful season for MLF and GB? What would you call a flop?

For me, I'd expect at least a 1-2 game improvement. If they win less than 7 games there will be unrest from the masses.

[gbgary]

What would you consider a successful season for MLF and GB? What would you call a flop?

For me, I'd expect at least a 1-2 game improvement. If they win less than 7 games there will be unrest from the masses.

9-7 or better. rodgers buying-in.

[Radagast]

This thread never asked for any record/statistic predictions, so any offered is purely on those posting such. That said, I predicted that GB will overtake the Bears and finish first in the NFC North Division. However it is possible for GB to have the same record as the Bears and finish ahead of them in the division. This may not occur, but I do believe that it is going to be a fierce battle between the two in 2019.

------------------------------------------------------:pack:--------------------------------------------------------------

[texaspackerbacker]

Sheeeeesh! a whole lot of condemning by faint praise in here.

Anything less than 10 or 11 wins and well into the playoffs would be a flop. A truly successful season would be the best or at least top three regular season record and obviously, to win the Super Bowl. Anything less would be some degree of disappointing.

[Rutnstrut]

My predictions are this. The Lions will finish ahead of the Bears. Rodgers starts slow but becomes the old AR around the 6th game of the season. The Packers D is improved. They have a solid run game and actually use it. pack wins the division.

[Radagast]

My predictions are this. The Lions will finish ahead of the Bears. Rodgers starts slow but becomes the old AR around the 6th game of the season. The Packers D is improved. They have a solid run game and actually use it. pack wins the division.

Wow, are you on something or do you just hate the Chicago Bears? I agree somewhat with the rest, but I see the Bears as strong competitors for the NFC North title. The Packers and the Bears may just finish with the same records. The division winner would then be decided from other factors.

As a footnote, look out this season for Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (S-Chicago) as he will be looking for revenge against the Packers. :duel:

[mraynrand]

I promise to look out for Ha Ha. I suspect I will look out at him arriving late and not being all that interested in tackling.

[pbmax]

I promise to look out for Ha Ha. I suspect I will look out at him arriving late and not being all that interested in tackling.

He's going to try to hit someone hard and could succeed, but he's also going to be late with a bad angle and I promise it'll be in the Game Day thread.

[pbmax]

As befits a positive outlook on your favorite sports teams, I am with tex and Tony ODay. Somewhere between 11 and 16 regular season wins. :lol:

Also, I think the Bears regress. Less worried about them than the Vikes who are slowly imploding. But with their talent, I could see being in danger of losing both games to them.

Going to be between the Vikes and Packers for the title.

If the world continues to vex me, the Lions might show strong but I refuse to believe that importing your kind of guys by Matt Millen Patricia will work in the long run.

[ThunderDan]

Wow, are you on something or do you just hate the Chicago Bears? I agree somewhat with the rest, but I see the Bears as strong competitors for the NFC North title. The Packers and the Bears may just finish with the same records. The division winner would then be decided from other factors.

As a footnote, look out this season for Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (S-Chicago) as he will be looking for revenge against the Packers. :duel:

So HaHa is actually going to try and tackle someone during the Packer game this year.

[ThunderDan]

Chicago, Packers and Vikings all 2/1 to win the North. Det was 9/1.

[Radagast]

As befits a positive outlook on your favorite sports teams, I am with tex and Tony ODay. Somewhere between 11 and 16 regular season wins. :lol:

Also, I think the Bears regress. Less worried about them than the Vikes who are slowly imploding. But with their talent, I could see being in danger of losing both games to them.

Going to be between the Vikes and Packers for the title.

If the world continues to vex me, the Lions might show strong but I refuse to believe that importing your kind of guys by Matt Millen Patricia will work in the long run.


I must disagree, the Bears will be at least as good as they were last season. Their QB has progressively gotten better and their second year with Mack leading their D, will be as good or better than last season. Packers/Bears split reg season wins and the Packers win the division per the PF/PA totals.

The Vikings will start hot, then fade into 3rd place finish

The Lions need a miracle.They won how many games in 2018? I see a repeat in 2019?

[wist43]

Chicago, Packers and Vikings all 2/1 to win the North. Det was 9/1.

I agree with those odds... throw a dart at any of GB, MINN, or CHI.

I think Chicago catches a break by playing us week 1. We're going to need some time to get in sync on offense, and the defense has a slew of new parts. Chicago on the other hand, will be more comfortable in their skin, with Nagy and Trubisky having a year together.

Would be surprised if GB can go into Chicago on opening night and leave with a W.

[ThunderDan]

I agree with those odds... throw a dart at any of GB, MINN, or CHI.

I think Chicago catches a break by playing us week 1. We're going to need some time to get in sync on offense, and the defense has a slew of new parts. Chicago on the other hand, will be more comfortable in their skin, with Nagy and Trubisky having a year together.

Would be surprised if GB can go into Chicago on opening night and leave with a W.

MN, Chi and GB all were over/under 9 wins in Vegas last week.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Bears played over their heads last year and lost several pretty good players. They should be worse. The Vikings always find a way to choke, and they at best, didn't improve in the off-season. The Lions aren't even worth considering. The Packers greatly under-performed last year. Just playing up to the expected normal would place them at the top of the division. The free agent pick-ups and the much improved defense that should result, plus presumably a more creative offense make the sky the limit.

[Upnorth]

I like the way you think. Chicago defense should experience regression to the mean. Plus they lost one of the best safety in the league

[Radagast]

Wow, I'm constantly amazed by post in this forum and in others as loyal Packer fans write down their fantasies instead of stating things as they truly are. I too want GB to win and never loose a game, but I know that has little chance of happening.

Face the real facts, he Bears had and will again have a great Defense. Their acquisition of Mack gave them both a great player and a leader for their Defense. I don't see the Clinton-Dix trade as a gain for the Bears, unless he steps up his game play over last season. In fact, GB might just come out ahead on that deal by getting Adrian Amos.

Trubisky is well thought of by the sports writers/broadcasters, many of which far former players themselves. I've watched him steadily improve and would rate him as a top 15 NFL QB. No he is not a Brady or Rodgers or Brees, but he is a solid journeyman working toward the master craftsman level.

As for GB, I believe that the new offensive system will take a few games to get the chemistry right. Until then, GB's defense will be called upon to keep the Packers in close games. That said and barring injuries, GB has a good shot at tying Chicago for the NFC North and could come down to PF/PA totals.

As much as we love our Packers, let's not let blind emotions keep us from facing the reality of what is , instead of allowing fantasy and dreams to rule over truth.



:glug:

[Upnorth]

It is rare to see a defense that makes a large jump in quality for a year maintain the same level of effectivness the second year. They rend to regress to the mean. Admittedly Mack is a difference maker, so it is possible the jump is sustainable, but os was a top ten safety before he got there. Not saying the bears will fall out of top 10 d, but they were outstanding Last year. Very few teams can maintain that quality.

[mraynrand]

Wow, I'm constantly amazed by post in this forum and in others as loyal Packer fans write down their fantasies instead of stating things as they truly are.

So you're saying you're amazed by typical fan behavior

[ThunderDan]

So you're saying you're amazed by typical fan behavior

TPB and Radagast should get a room. Two old men shouting at each other. :duel:

[MadScientist]

I agree with those odds... throw a dart at any of GB, MINN, or CHI.

I think Chicago catches a break by playing us week 1. We're going to need some time to get in sync on offense, and the defense has a slew of new parts. Chicago on the other hand, will be more comfortable in their skin, with Nagy and Trubisky having a year together.

Would be surprised if GB can go into Chicago on opening night and leave with a W.

Here's how. HA HA has spend year of practice against AR in the old system, but none against the new one. If the Packers can scheme a few plays that give the old look, but have a new wrinkle, they should be able to get HA HA to bite and leave a guy running free. Then design a few plays that force HA HA to try to tackle a TE or RB :grin:

In general, who has the advantage week 1 with a new offense? The offense who hasn't seen much live action, or the defense that doesn't know what to prepare for. History has shown that defenses need to see the looks on tape to prepare well.

[Zool]

It is rare to see a defense that makes a large jump in quality for a year maintain the same level of effectivness the second year. They rend to regress to the mean. Admittedly Mack is a difference maker, so it is possible the jump is sustainable, but os was a top ten safety before he got there. Not saying the bears will fall out of top 10 d, but they were outstanding Last year. Very few teams can maintain that quality.

Agreed.

Bears had everything come together last season and still didn't make any playoff noise. They went to the SB with Sexy Rexy and took a big step back the next year. It happens a lot. Bears will be a 10 or 11 win team. If they get hit hard by injuries this year they will be an 8-9 win team.

Try to find someone on the Bears injury list last year that actually matters. Maybe Kyle Long?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2018_injuries.htm

Packers list for comparison

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2018_injuries.htm

[Cheesehead Craig]

And unless you are the Pats and get to play the AFC East every year, 12 wins/season is hard to duplicate. A lot has to go right, especially injuries.

[Radagast]

TPB and Radagast should get a room. Two old men shouting at each other. :duel:

First, I prefer separate rooms at a 5 star hotel. Second, being young is a most valuable time in any life and I hope that you can appreciate it. As for being a senior, I've outlived a lot of people in my time and attribute much to learning early that respect and knowledge are two of the greatest things in life. I try to respect the young and try to increase their knowledge when practical.

Disrespecting others in an attempt at humor is not only juvenile, but lowers ones respect level among the adults. Most do finally grow up and move up in life. However their are some that retire still taking out the garbage and sweeping the floors.

As a Packer fan, I can still respect players/teams that may be better than my team. Acknowledging another team's offense/defense is the first step to improving to beat them. Stopping the run, pass protecting, getting turnovers, or defending against a rated passing attack are areas that can help to elevate a team from average to above average or better. Pulling your head out of the sand to see reality is the first step to get better.

I feel good that the Packers defense will again see improvement this season. More experience, better players, and team speed should render a top 10 defense in 2019 for the Packers.

The new offensive system that HC LaFleur is installing in GB will I believe be a great thing for the Packers. That said, I believe that it will take more than just the pre-season to see it become a well oiled machine. It may be week 5 or 6 before the new chemistry begins to click and GB rises to be a top 10 offence. Until that time, the defense will bear the greater load to keep the Packers in games.

[texaspackerbacker]

No offense, Radagast, but it galls me to be compared to you, and virtually every word of your post above illustrates why. Sheeeesh!

Getting old is mostly a product of acting old; Staying young is mostly a product of acting young and not letting yourself get old. If that's acting "juvenile" then I sure as hell plead guilty.

As for the Packers, I can only hope the "new offensive system" doesn't screw things up too bad, and that LaFleur has the good sense to subordinate what he maybe prefers to do to what works when you have the greatest QB in the history of the world. I do agree with you about defensive improvement, though.

How old are you anyway? Can you beat 72?

[gbgary]

rodgers-not-a-fan-of-giving-up-control-at-the-line-of-scrimmage (https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/rodgers-not-a-fan-of-giving-up-control-at-the-line-of-scrimmage-530)
the tug-of-war has begun. smh

[texaspackerbacker]

If LaFleur has an ego fit and forces change, then the Packers will suffer extremely. Until proven different, though, I think LaFleur will have the good sense to go with what works. This is mostly just media pukes trying to stir up trouble where none exists.

[Radagast]

No offense, Radagast, but it galls me to be compared to you,

I did request separate rooms in a 5 Star Hotel. Also, I regularly pass by your post as every one is mainly a repeat of the one before. So stay in Texas, pack that pistol, and eat those smoking hot foods. At your age and at mine knowing what a Championship team looks like should be easy to picture. Overlooking this or that weakness in a team is commendable, but either says your dishonest or your just that easy to be lead by others.

Packers win the division, the Bears take a Wildcard spot.

[pbmax]

rodgers-not-a-fan-of-giving-up-control-at-the-line-of-scrimmage (https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/rodgers-not-a-fan-of-giving-up-control-at-the-line-of-scrimmage-530)
the tug-of-war has begun. smh

Yeah, I saw this. Will be interesting to see if he really exercises this prerogative early just to show his coach that the QB is on equal footing or if he is just creating space to do it on an emergency basis. He even made a joke about the first play of the first game.

Man, this sounds so much like the retrospective comments about Favre's year in 2007. I hope it works out as well. Or better.

Just think, if someone had been thinking wisely about this they would have anticipated this reaction and helped build it, or corral it, into the offense. There is still a chance. We should send Tex north to negotiate with M4 and Hackett.

[Joemailman]

If the offense is working (receivers getting open) I don't see a problem. Last year was a result of Rodgers losing faith in the offense and of having 2 rookie WR's in the lineup. I believe I read that there will be a pass/run option on most plays. That's fine. If Rodgers just starts calling his own play though, heads could claah.

[pbmax]

If the offense is working (receivers getting open) I don't see a problem. Last year was a result of Rodgers losing faith in the offense and of having 2 rookie WR's in the lineup. I believe I read that there will be a pass/run option on most plays. That's fine. If Rodgers just starts calling his own play though, heads could claah.

There was disagreement about what routes to run among the receivers when Rodgers called an adjustment from the play. That will hurt the offense as everyone is learning this. Rodgers acknowledged it when he said he is running it straight during practice and camp, no improv, no extended offense.

The longer he carries through with that, the faster the offense will gel. I m not going to get upset if he goes extended offense after blown pass pro or receivers not actually open short.

[gbgary]

If LaFleur has an ego fit and forces change, then the Packers will suffer extremely. Until proven different, though, I think LaFleur will have the good sense to go with what works. This is mostly just media pukes trying to stir up trouble where none exists.

MLF was brought in specifically to change things. the ego fit starting now is rodgers' own. MLF should stick to his guns and the front office should back him fully. during ota's and camp this offense needs to be run without any improv so everyone will know their jobs, what's expected, and how the O works. street ball has no place here...and really no place at all. it's gotten the Packers nowhere and only got rodgers hurt. this isn't media driven either. it's rodgers driven. we all know he takes his shots through the press. this is just his latest...and i'm not the least bit surprised. not buying-in was my number one concern and we're already seeing it.

[MadScientist]

MLF was brought in specifically to change things. the ego fit starting now is rodgers' own. MLF should stick to his guns and the front office should back him fully. during the ota's and camp this offense needs to be run without any improv so everyone will knows their jobs, what's expected, and how the O works. street ball has no place here...and really no place at all. it's gotten the Packers nowhere and only got rodgers hurt. this isn't media driven either. it's rodgers driven. we all know he takes his shots through the press. this is just his latest...and i'm not the least bit surprised. not buying-in was my number one concern and we're already seeing it.

I don't think we are really seeing a not buying in going on here. Rodgers has said that he is forcing himself to not do any improv during OTC and camp to get a body memory of the offense. He has only stated that when plays go to hell during games, he will try to escape pressure and make plays. That sounds like what he should be doing. If MLF has designed a scheme to get receivers open and Rodgers hits them when things don't break down, it will bring opportunities to improvise when protection breaks down or coverage is initially perfect.

[pbmax]

MLF should stick to his guns and the front office should back him fully.

There is a point at which sticking to your guns is just going to get you fired. My way or the highway on your playbook is dumb, this isn't a 5 year rebuild job. You need to work with what you have. Sometimes that is less talent. Sometimes that is so much talent it has become sentient.


during the ota's and camp this offense needs to be run without any improv so everyone will knows their jobs, what's expected, and how the O works. street ball has no place here...

He has already said that is what he is doing. Explicitly said he is doing exactly this.


and really no place at all. it's gotten the Packers nowhere and only got rodgers hurt.

Sticking within the offense cost the team a 2014 Super Bowl berth. Using Rodgers offense got them to a Championship Game in 2016 that they had no business being in. Rodgers has been better than the McCarthy offense since 2014. He's had one poor year as a result. But yes, it does increase his risk of injury.

[gbgary]

I don't think we are really seeing a not buying in going on here. Rodgers has said that he is forcing himself to not do any improv during OTC and camp to get a body memory of the offense. He has only stated that when plays go to hell during games, he will try to escape pressure and make plays. That sounds like what he should be doing. If MLF has designed a scheme to get receivers open and Rodgers hits them when things don't break down, it will bring opportunities to improvise when protection breaks down or coverage is initially perfect.

rodgers' latest comments are about when he's at the LOS...before the snap. not when things break down. all bets are off when the play breaks down...that's understandable. what i don't want is straying from plan. i don't want him passing up open guys, holding the ball, just to have the play break down and go into scramble mode.

rodgers-compromise-on-audibles-is-a-conversation-in-progress-with-lafleur (https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1787004/rodgers-compromise-on-audibles-is-a-conversation-in-progress-with-lafleur)

[pbmax]

rodgers' latest comments are about when he's at the LOS...before the snap. not when things break down. all bets are off when the play breaks down...that's understandable. what i don't want is straying from plan. i don't want him passing up open guys, holding the ball, just to have the play break down and go into scramble mode.

rodgers-compromise-on-audibles-is-a-conversation-in-progress-with-lafleur (https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1787004/rodgers-compromise-on-audibles-is-a-conversation-in-progress-with-lafleur)

You are still describing two different things. Either he is changing the play at the LOS or he could go to the extended offense. One isn't necessarily the other.

[pbmax]

Speaking of dumb, headstrong coaches refusing to use what talent they have, the Packers will be practicing with the Texans and Bill O'Brien twice this year.

[gbgary]

You are still describing two different things. Either he is changing the play at the LOS or he could go to the extended offense. One isn't necessarily the other.

yes i know. i really don't want to see him doing either one on purpose.

"We're running a system I first picked up while working with Kyle (Shanahan) in Houston a decade ago, and we've never really had a quarterback who's had complete freedom to change plays at the line because that's not really the way the offense is set up. But, I mean, this is Aaron Rodgers. He's had a lot of freedom to make those calls, and deservedly so. Now, how do we reconcile that, and get to a place where we put him in the best position to succeed?"

LaFleur's system is designed to have a built-in "answer" to whatever look the defense gives, and because of the amount of pre-snap movement, the coach is concerned that too much freedom under center could "slow our guys down."

there's no need to change the play and, if everyone's doing their job successfully, there's no need to hold the ball. i know things go wrong but i don't want to see the system compromised on purpose the way he did with MM. if goff can do it to great success, then rodgers should blow people away with it.

[pbmax]

yes i know. i really don't want to see him doing either one on purpose.


there's no need to change the play and, if everyone's doing their job successfully, there's no need to hold the ball. i know things go wrong but i don't want to see the system compromised on purpose the way he did with MM. if goff can do it to great success, then rodgers should blow people away with it.

Gary, Mike McCarthy would tell you the same thing. Coaches don't build a playbook thinking, "this fucking play doesn't have a chance". People have figured out offenses before. Especially since this will be the third version of this offense running and they have a year of film of LaFleur running it in Tennessee.

If what LaFleur thinks is true, its his job to get Rodgers to see it and Rodgers job to trust it at least in the beginning. But there will still be times the defense has you dead to rights.

[gbgary]

here's the interview. it's a good read.

aaron-rodgers-matt-lafleur-navigating-new-packers-partnership (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001033990/article/aaron-rodgers-matt-lafleur-navigating-new-packers-partnership)

[Radagast]

People please, pre-season has not even begun yet and the sky is not falling. LaFleur is bringing a different offensive system to GB. It should fit all concerned very well. However it is not instant magic and will require some time to get all of the chemistry working together. Don't get upset if the Packers drop a few early games as everyone gets in sync.

In addition, I don't expect to see anyone going rogue and trying to save the day. If your nervous, and some of you seem to be, go to YOUTube or another site and watch the LA Rams play using the system that is being installed with the Packers. Every play is not a TD, but it is a solid system that works well. Williams nor Adams will not be a healthy Todd Gurley, yet they should perform well.

The main thing here is that great patience will be needed, at least until week 5 or 6 as the offense becomes a more confident unit.


Patience

[texaspackerbacker]

This is probably much ado about nothing. LaFleur undoubtedly knows how to coach and is NOT gonna come in and screw things up. He damn well shouldn't. That is NOT what he was brought in for IMO. He was brought in to fine tune an offense that is (and should be) built around Aaron Rodgers and his magnificent ability to adjust things on the fly as needed. A little more creativity in pass patterns, training young receivers to get open on extended plays, etc.

I seriously doubt there is even any controversy among Packers players and coaches - this is purely trouble stirred up by media pukes and bought into by some worry wort fans.

[pbmax]

"I guess from what you consider the true standard of 'audibles,' you're right -- we have not had that," LaFleur said last Tuesday during a second conversation in his office. "Because, you know, we pride ourselves on having concepts that have answers for whatever. Now, it might not always be the best answer, but you have an answer. But when there are plays that are called that have maybe not a very good answer, we typically call two plays and we run one or the other, based upon the look that the defense is giving us. The quarterback chooses, and there are criteria: We try to teach him the criteria for why we would want this play over the other play."

This is a good summary of how to navigate the problem. You give the QB two calls so he can get out of a bad one. You could make the second call one that the QB favors given what the defense might do to defeat play #1. Easy buy in.

This isn't rocket science, but requires hard nosed patience. Going to take a while to bend that board. If La Fleur is actually as good as he thinks he is, he'll win Rodgers over.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Coaches don't build a playbook thinking, "this fucking play doesn't have a chance".

The Indianapolis Colts would like to have a word with you pb.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/EmVYgmNXRkFQjZ3rXq8rBzaLohY=/0x0:1418x759/920x613/filters:focal(596x267:822x493)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57394737/Capture.1509410829.png

[pbmax]

^ There are always special brands of stupid. Everywhere you go.

Speaking of which, I would LOVE to know what was supposed to happen. Because a snap to one guy doesn't seem to make sense.

[Cheesehead Craig]

^ There are always special brands of stupid. Everywhere you go.

Speaking of which, I would LOVE to know what was supposed to happen. Because a snap to one guy doesn't seem to make sense.

The play was never supposed to be run. It was all trying to get the defense to jump offsides. The player who was supposed to be the snapper was hurt that game and they had a backup come in who thought he was supposed to snap it regardless. Just a hysterically dumb play that defies logic in the belief that any team would jump offsides on this play.

[Joemailman]

This is probably much ado about nothing. LaFleur undoubtedly knows how to coach and is NOT gonna come in and screw things up. He damn well shouldn't. That is NOT what he was brought in for IMO. He was brought in to fine tune an offense that is (and should be) built around Aaron Rodgers and his magnificent ability to adjust things on the fly as needed. A little more creativity in pass patterns, training young receivers to get open on extended plays, etc.

I seriously doubt there is even any controversy among Packers players and coaches - this is purely trouble stirred up by media pukes and bought into by some worry wort fans.

News flash. LaFleur was not brought in to fine tune the offense. He was brought in to replace an offense that wasn't working anymore. The 2 offenses could hardly be more different. Spreading the receivers out and asking Rodgers to figure out who will be open (or buy time if nobody is open) will be replaced by bunch formations, misdirection and play action.

[ThunderDan]

The play was never supposed to be run. It was all trying to get the defense to jump offsides. The player who was supposed to be the snapper was hurt that game and they had a backup come in who thought he was supposed to snap it regardless. Just a hysterically dumb play that defies logic in the belief that any team would jump offsides on this play.

Exactly, it was supposed to be a punt on 4th down.

[pbmax]

News flash. LaFleur was not brought in to fine tune the offense. He was brought in to replace an offense that wasn't working anymore. The 2 offenses could hardly be more different. Spreading the receivers out and asking Rodgers to figure out who will be open (or buy time if nobody is open) will be replaced by bunch formations, misdirection and play action.

Don't forget motion.

[Joemailman]

Don't forget motion.

Yeah. That too.

[Radagast]

The 2019 NFC North Title, or could be a discussion about the division.

What do the Lions need to do to be competitive?

How dangerous will the Vikings offense be in 2019?

Can the Packers beat the Bears defense?

Will the Packers shut down the Bears offense?

Vikings vs Lions, who wins those games?


:glug::glug:

[Cheesehead Craig]

Don't forget motion.


https://youtu.be/POWsFzSFLCE

[texaspackerbacker]

News flash. LaFleur was not brought in to fine tune the offense. He was brought in to replace an offense that wasn't working anymore. The 2 offenses could hardly be more different. Spreading the receivers out and asking Rodgers to figure out who will be open (or buy time if nobody is open) will be replaced by bunch formations, misdirection and play action.

Most of the runs before were misdirection - that works best in a pass first attack. I do like the idea of the bunch formation, though. That makes it harder to cover receivers who (obviously) do not stay bunched as they spread out and get open. Rodgers should flourish in this - extending plays as needed and all. We did a little of play action before too. More can't hurt, especially if opponents are expecting more run plays.

The more things change, the more they will stay the same. We will undoubtedly notice a few differences but, I suspect, not many.

[texaspackerbacker]

The 2019 NFC North Title, or could be a discussion about the division.

What do the Lions need to do to be competitive?

How dangerous will the Vikings offense be in 2019?

Can the Packers beat the Bears defense?

Will the Packers shut down the Bears offense?

Vikings vs Lions, who wins those games?


:glug::glug:

In order, 1. a whole new roster 2. Their D is more of a threat than their O, so not very. 3. Yes, they can beat ANY defense, and the Bears shouldn't be quite as good as last season. 4. Do the Bears even have an offense that requires anything special to shut it down? 5. Even the late season Vikings (after their traditional choke job) shouldn't lose to the Lions.

[Radagast]

In order, 1. a whole new roster 2. Their D is more of a threat than their O, so not very. 3. Yes, they can beat ANY defense, and the Bears shouldn't be quite as good as last season. 4. Do the Bears even have an offense that requires anything special to shut it down? 5. Even the late season Vikings (after their traditional choke job) shouldn't lose to the Lions.

Could you do that again without the horse blinders? Obviously your driving the Rah Rah Wagon. Is it truely how you feel or are you just trying to impress the less well informed sheep.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha I was just trying to be nice and get your thread back on topic. Maybe you should answer your own questions. What of my answers could you possibly disagree with?

[gbgary]

This is probably much ado about nothing. LaFleur undoubtedly knows how to coach and is NOT gonna come in and screw things up. He damn well shouldn't. That is NOT what he was brought in for IMO. He was brought in to fine tune an offense that is (and should be) built around Aaron Rodgers and his magnificent ability to adjust things on the fly as needed. A little more creativity in pass patterns, training young receivers to get open on extended plays, etc.

I seriously doubt there is even any controversy among Packers players and coaches - this is purely trouble stirred up by media pukes and bought into by some worry wort fans.

he wasn't brought in to fine tune anything. he was brought in to completely change it. as he points out in the article, in the new O, there's no reason to change the play and personnel groupings could actually prohibit it. break-downs and 2-min offense are the wild cards and they'll work that out, but as a whole there shouldn't be much opportunity for improvisation...which is a good thing. as i said, if goff can do it rodgers should be all-world at it. he just needs to be disciplined enough to do it.

[Radagast]

In order, 1. a whole new roster 2. Their D is more of a threat than their O, so not very. 3. Yes, they can beat ANY defense, and the Bears shouldn't be quite as good as last season. 4. Do the Bears even have an offense that requires anything special to shut it down? 5. Even the late season Vikings (after their traditional choke job) shouldn't lose to the Lions.

To begin with, it would do the Lions no good to replace/adjust their roster until they clean their executive house. From top to bottom, the Lions troubles start and end with their management. Einstein said it best, the definition of "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different results".

Next, with their offense healthy again, the Vikings will be a competitive unit. Cousins just needs players beyond himself to take the field and he should have it this season.

I don't believe that GB will beat the Bears in week 1 or the Vikings in week 2. It will be a simple matter of the offense not working well enough yet to get it done. The defense will play better than last season and ensure that the losses will not be too great. That said, GB's offense will improve as the season progresses and they will emerge as the offensive power in the NFC North. They will turn the tables on the Bears/Vikings in the last few weeks of the season.

Be sure your wearing your Depends for the season opener with the Bears. They will put up the points to not only beat the Packers, but also exploit the weak areas of the Packer D. The Bears will put it on the Packers in week 1 in Chicago.

The Vikings, IMO, will split reg, season games with the Lions. The Vikings get the first win, but the Lions will win the rematch. Like is often said, when division rivals meet, sometimes you can through the records out the window. Their final reg season game will be just such a game.

[texaspackerbacker]

No disagreement about the Lions. The changing the whole roster thing was just hyperbole. They are messed up above and beyond the player level.

Cousins is exactly what the Vikings deserve in a QB - a picture of mediocrity getting paid huge money. Their whole offense is pretty mediocre.

Think whatever you want about the Packers actually losing the first two games of the LaFleur Era hahahahaha. I'd bet money it doesn't happen. Hell, I'd bet they win both of those games. The improvement in the Packer offense will be mainly in the form of the young receivers getting better, and just maybe Jimmy Graham returning to form. And of course, there should be drastic improvement in the Packers defense.

You really sound like a closet Bears fan hahahaha. Their offense is even more mediocre than the Vikings, and their D will not be quite as good as last year. Hot shot pass rushers (not named Julius Peppers) tend to age and fade a lot like RBs. I don't expect Mack to be quite as good this year. In addition, they lost two very good DBs - one of them to us.

The Lions might rise up and beat the Vikings, especially if the Vikings have started their downward spiral by that time and/or if the game doesn't mean much. Hell, they might even beat the Packers in Week 17 - if and only if the Packers have home field advantage sewed up and rest all their starters.

[Radagast]

You really sound like a closet Bears fan hahahaha. Their offense is even more mediocre than the Vikings, and their D will not be quite as good as last year. Hot shot pass rushers (not named Julius Peppers) tend to age and fade a lot like RBs. I don't expect Mack to be quite as good this year. In addition, they lost two very good DBs - one of them to us.

Actually, I don't harbor a prejudice against any team, with the possible exception of the Redskins. However they did forgo keeping Cousins and are now regretting it. As for the Bears, I see things as they are and not how I hope they will be. The addition of Khalil Mack elevated their D, while Trubisky has steadily shown improvement. Yes, their DB's will be questionable until we see them play, but with as much at stake, don't assume the Bears aren't aware as well. They will enter 2019 with a Chicago Team that will be building upon their 2018 progress.

I refuse to look at a yellow rose and call it red.

[Upnorth]

The 2019 NFC North Title, or could be a discussion about the division.

What do the Lions need to do to be competitive?

How dangerous will the Vikings offense be in 2019?

Can the Packers beat the Bears defense?

Will the Packers shut down the Bears offense?

Vikings vs Lions, who wins those games?


:glug::glug:

A stable steady D, if they have fixed the oline very (I hope they havent), yes if we can get the ball out quick and with the new hole in saftey, what bears offense?, unfortunatley the vikings.

[texaspackerbacker]

Radagast, the Bears got lucky last season. I don't say that out of hate, just based on the way their season went. The Vikings, yeah maybe I hate them a little bit because of some past events, but my low opinion of them in general and Cousins in particular is based on recent past performance. Did you see anything in Trubisky to make you think he is more than just ordinary? There are QBs who carry teams, and there are QBs who are just along for the ride. Trubisky strikes me as the latter.

I see you are from Virginia; Is that why you maybe hate the Redskins? I tend to not be a hater, especially based on close geography. The Cowboys have been my second favorite team since they were the NFL expansion rival in the war against the AFL. That's long before I ever lived in Texas. The Texans are probably my third favorite team, but that's maybe more because of J.J. Watt than anything else. I haven't actually hated teams since the pre-merger and early post-merger days with the AFL.

You seem to confuse reality with negativism. And negativism by any other name smells about the same - and it sure ain't roses.

I appreciate you, though, in these generally dull off-season days for bringing some threads and posts of interest - even if your conclusions are often misguided hahahaha.

[run pMc]

The 2019 NFC North Title, or could be a discussion about the division.

What do the Lions need to do to be competitive?

How dangerous will the Vikings offense be in 2019?

Can the Packers beat the Bears defense?

Will the Packers shut down the Bears offense?

Vikings vs Lions, who wins those games?


Well, the Lions skunked the Packers at Lambeau, and have won the last few matches...so if the Lions stink what's that say about the Packers? That said, I have no faith in Matt Patricia. They have a few good players, but they feel like a 5 win team to me. They need pass rush help, they need to sort out their OL, and they have to hope the secondary can play. That RB they drafted last year is pretty good, and they have Stafford and a few WRs (and drafted Hockenson) so they could be a tough out but I don't see playoffs for them.

People forget how dangerous the Vikings O can be, largely thanks to their QB. If Rodgers had Thelen, Diggs, and Rudolph to throw to with Dalvin Cook in the backfield? Not too shabby. Their OL has been a trainwreck, but they are drafting and adding talent there and could bounceback. They tend to have yo-yo seasons -- one good, one bad, one good, etc., so maybe this is their year. Their defense is aging, so I'm inclined to think they need a lot of luck to be more than a wild card team.

The Bears are the NFCN champs until dethroned, and have some very good defensive talent, thanks to Khalil Mack, Akiem Hicks, Roquan Smith, etc. Their secondary is ok; swapping Amos for HHCD is a loss for them, losing Bryce Callahan and Vic Fangio will hurt them a bit. Trading Jordan Howard seemed weird to me but I think they wanted someone better in the passing game. Tarik Cohen is dangerous, their WRs are good enough to get the job done. It all comes down to Trubisky - is he a game manager or is he the next elite QB? I'm not sold on him. The Packers beat the Bears by doing a lot of what they did in Game 1 last year -- keeping Kizer on the bench, using quick rhythm stuff to soften up the D and then hit them with a big play. Cobb was always a Bear-killer; someone else needs to step up. Pettine's new pass rush should put pressure on Trubisky and hopefully turn him into the erratic/inaccurate passer he can be at times. Shutting it down is a tall order. Nagy has proven me wrong -- I thought he was gonna be a Marc Trestman -- but they can probably contain the offense. I could see some 20-17 games decided in the 4Q.

Vikings should beat the Lions 4 out of 5 times. They have more talent, and I like Mike Zimmer more than Matt Patricia.

[pbmax]

he wasn't brought in to fine tune anything. he was brought in to completely change it. as he points out in the article, in the new O, there's no reason to change the play and personnel groupings could actually prohibit it. break-downs and 2-min offense are the wild cards and they'll work that out, but as a whole there shouldn't be much opportunity for improvisation...which is a good thing. as i said, if goff can do it rodgers should be all-world at it. he just needs to be disciplined enough to do it.

Its not the personnel groupings, that claim makes no sense to me. I think that is mistaking the case. Rodgers has drawn stuff up in the dirt before, so he doesn't care which group is out there.

The motion and time off the clock perhaps make more sense here, but even that is at most 5-7 seconds of time including a read, the motion, and a re-read. How long does it take for a receiver or TE to reduce his split or for the RB to go out wide? It takes Rodgers less than a second to read the change to the coverage.

More likely might be the coach calling out the adjustment to the D alignment (which can be right up to the 15 second mark). That would put an audible under the gun.

But they do have audibles in this offense, its the 2 play call deal.

Goff is terrible, even in this offense. His weapons are pretty good.

[Radagast]

Tex,

First, I am a proud Virginian, yet I grew up a Packer fan. Bart Starr, Jim Taylor, and Ray Nitschke were my boyhood heroes. I understand that most of Va. is considered to be Redskin territory, so I have had to endure more than my fair share of fans/media coverage.

Second, I've never had a second or back up team. A fellow at work once stated that he had a back up team and was laughed at so hard that he nearly quit.

Last, discounting any NFL team, especially one in your own division, is a bad mistake. One may not like Detroit or Chicago or Minnesota, but their teams players and coaches come from as diverse schools/places as every other team. So dislike other teams fans, but not giving another team their due is foolish and stubborn. I am a Packer fan, but I refuse to not see the truth.

[gbgary]

Its not the personnel groupings, that claim makes no sense to me. I think that is mistaking the case. Rodgers has drawn stuff up in the dirt before, so he doesn't care which group is out there.

The motion and time off the clock perhaps make more sense here, but even that is at most 5-7 seconds of time including a read, the motion, and a re-read. How long does it take for a receiver or TE to reduce his split or for the RB to go out wide? It takes Rodgers less than a second to read the change to the coverage.

More likely might be the coach calling out the adjustment to the D alignment (which can be right up to the 15 second mark). That would put an audible under the gun.

But they do have audibles in this offense, its the 2 play call deal.

Goff is terrible, even in this offense. His weapons are pretty good.

he had a better year than rodgers did last year in almost every stat catagory. pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/passing.htm (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/passing.htm)

[Fritz]

I think most logical people would call this a fight between Minnesota and Chicago for the NFC North, followed by a fight between Detroit and Green Bay for third place.

While I don't think Matt Patricia is the answer, as someone else pointed out, Detroit has beaten Green Bay like a red-headed step child the last couple of seasons.

[ThunderDan]

I think most logical people would call this a fight between Minnesota and Chicago for the NFC North, followed by a fight between Detroit and Green Bay for third place.

While I don't think Matt Patricia is the answer, as someone else pointed out, Detroit has beaten Green Bay like a red-headed step child the last couple of seasons.

Las Vegas has Minn, Chi and GB all with the same odds of winning the North. All have an over/under of 9 wins.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

^ There are always special brands of stupid. Everywhere you go.

Speaking of which, I would LOVE to know what was supposed to happen. Because a snap to one guy doesn't seem to make sense.

Next time, put an agile horse back there AND line him up in the shotgun. Have the center block the LE. Ball carrier should run left and juke the left corner. Easy 6. We all know corners can’t tackle, so the odds favor the carrier. However, if the D is in the Pistol Force, agile horse should lateral the rock to the punter for a punt.

[mraynrand]

Next time, put an agile horse back there AND line him up in the shotgun. Have the center block the LE. Ball carrier should run left and juke the left corner. Easy 6. We all know corners can’t tackle, so the odds favor the carrier. However, if the D is in the Pistol Force, agile horse should lateral the rock to the punter for a punt.

take the effing delay of game penalty and punt the ball

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tex,

First, I am a proud Virginian, yet I grew up a Packer fan. Bart Starr, Jim Taylor, and Ray Nitschke were my boyhood heroes. I understand that most of Va. is considered to be Redskin territory, so I have had to endure more than my fair share of fans/media coverage.

Second, I've never had a second or back up team. A fellow at work once stated that he had a back up team and was laughed at so hard that he nearly quit.

Last, discounting any NFL team, especially one in your own division, is a bad mistake. One may not like Detroit or Chicago or Minnesota, but their teams players and coaches come from as diverse schools/places as every other team. So dislike other teams fans, but not giving another team their due is foolish and stubborn. I am a Packer fan, but I refuse to not see the truth.

Tex was actually a Racist, err Redskins, fan til some Roman Catholic paddy forced the Skins to mix, well, skins. In fact, if you check out the Sports Illustrated article about the “Redskins” ordeal, you’ll see a pic of Tex protesting and holding a sign that reads, ironically, “Keep the Redskins white!”

No I keed, I keed. Tex was a Packers fan til he moved to Texas. Dude hopped off the Packer bandwagon and become a Cowboys fan during their glorious debacles in the 90’s. ;)

[Anti-Polar Bear]

take the effing delay of game penalty and punt the ball

But that’s what the D is expecting. Snap the rock out of the shotgun and do what i insisted above and it’s an easy 6.

Trust me, I know my football. I was a shutdown corner in high school after all. Even shut down Darren Charles in a game.

[mraynrand]

Trust me

not a chance

[Anti-Polar Bear]

not a chance

Yo, notice that Fritz is back from vacation? Wish I could afford a nice vacation. But alas, I flip burgers for the minimum-wage.

The fishmongers are giving me a week of paid time off in the middle of July, but they don’t pay me enough, so can’t visit some tropical island and score. Probably will just dance in the Matrix.

[texaspackerbacker]

No I keed, I keed. Tex was a Packers fan til he moved to Texas. Dude hopped off the Packer bandwagon and become a Cowboys fan during their glorious debacles in the 90’s. ;)

I rooted against the Packers exactly one time - one ignominious time - in my whole life. I think it was late '80s or early '90s; The Packers had nothing to play for late in the season, and the Cowboys really needed the game. Low and behold, the Packers rose up and won.

[mraynrand]

I rooted against the Packers exactly one time - one ignominious time - in my whole life. I think it was late '80s or early '90s; The Packers had nothing to play for late in the season, and the Cowboys really needed the game. Low and behold, the Packers rose up and won.

Hahahahahahaha

[SudsMcBucky]

I rooted against the Packers exactly one time - one ignominious time - in my whole life. I think it was late '80s or early '90s; The Packers had nothing to play for late in the season, and the Cowboys really needed the game. Low and behold, the Packers rose up and won.

But if it weren't for that game, we would have ended up wasting a draft pick on some West Coast hippie QB instead of getting the Incredible Bulk.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

But if it weren't for that game, we would have ended up wasting a draft pick on some West Coast hippie QB instead of getting the Incredible Bulk.

Back then Green Bay wasn’t hip. Aikman woulda pulled an Elway after getting drafted by the Packers.

Yes, shoulda tanked that last game. Then trade the numero uno pick for a fucking Titanic. Then find a way to draft both of Bernie’s nephews, Barry and Neon Deion.

Favre, Barry, Neon, Reggie, LeRoy and possibly Rand Moss, man, the Packers could’ve been the greatest show on earth since the Wu Tang Clan.

[Radagast]

Yo, notice that Fritz is back from vacation? Wish I could afford a nice vacation. But alas, I flip burgers for the minimum-wage.

The fishmongers are giving me a week of paid time off in the middle of July, but they don’t pay me enough, so can’t visit some tropical island and score. Probably will just dance in the Matrix.

What training/education have you invested in that qualifies you for a job where you can make better money? If you don't like your present lot in life, then it's up to you to change it. Go to a Vocational/Technical School and learn a trade or visit your local College and find out what it would take to enroll in classes. Many work and attend school at the same time. It requires dedication, but they aren't crying over their station in life, they are doing something about it. You make your own choices, but some employers will help their employees with their tuition expenses.

Now, any views on the 2019 NFC North Title competition?

[mraynrand]

July is typically not a good time for tropical islands anyway

Good time to earn some $$$ house painting tho.

[George Cumby]

Hahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahahaha.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

What training/education have you invested in that qualifies you for a job where you can make better money? If you don't like your present lot in life, then it's up to you to change it. Go to a Vocational/Technical School and learn a trade or visit your local College and find out what it would take to enroll in classes. Many work and attend school at the same time. It requires dedication, but they aren't crying over their station in life, they are doing something about it. You make your own choices, but some employers will help their employees with their tuition expenses.

Now, any views on the 2019 NFC North Title competition?

I ain’t professor Rand. I ain’t got a shinny PhD. Just a humble Econ school dropout. Lost motivation, became lazy and underachieved. Porn addiction will do that to a man.

I do hold BS (bullshit) degrees in economics and accounting. And just to prove to the old man I ain’t an idiot, I eventually passed the CPA exams.

Entered the workforce amid the “Great Recession.” Fishmongers weren’t really fishing. After a couple of failed interviews, I stopped looking and starting waiting for the fishmonger economy to utterly collapse. B/c, you know, from the wreckage of the fishmonger economy, arises the, you know.

But then that half black and half white dude betrayed the cause that got him elected - extreme change. Instead of allowing the fishmongers to perish, half and half sold out and bailed out the fishmongers.

In an economy that holds the downtrodden down, and it laughs as the gay man drowns, the American system ain’t the beauteous utopia in Tex’s head. The unjust and broken system FORCES moi to flip burgers for the minimum-wage.

Packers will win the North. :)

[texaspackerbacker]

oooooh APB, they gonna get you for that hahahahaha What is it? The 17th Commandment: Thou shalt Not let the Politics Beast out of the FYI cage.

[mraynrand]

“Shinny?”

[mraynrand]

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

[Anti-Polar Bear]

oooooh APB, they gonna get you for that hahahahaha What is it? The 17th Commandment: Thou shalt Not let the Politics Beast out of the FYI cage.

Moral of the story is, I fucked up. Do I still have time to become a merry lyricist, or am I doomed to live the wretched existence til my time in this universe expires?

Carry on with NFC North chatters.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

“Shinny?”

Sorry, wrote that post while on break from burger flipping. And the iPhone 5 I’m still using is obsolete. Lack the deposable income for a shiny 10.

[mraynrand]

Moral of the story is, I fucked up. Do I still have time to become a merry lyricist, or am I doomed to live the wretched existence til my time in this universe expires?

Every passing moment is another chance to turn it all around

[Cheesehead Craig]

Sorry, wrote that post while on break from burger flipping. And the iPhone 5 I’m still using is obsolete. Lack the deposable income for a shiny 10.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xuanMoP6v4

[mraynrand]

That graphic is AWESOME.