A Better "Division" of NFL Talent

[Radagast]

If it were my call to make, I'd rearrange some of the NFL's Divisions. This is what I'd do.


AFC

East: New England, NY Jets, Buffalo, and Baltimore

North: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis

South: Miami, Jacksonville, Houston, and Tennessee

West: LA Chargers, Denver, Kansas City, and Oakland



NFC

East: NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington, and Carolina

North: Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit, and Minnesota

South: Dallas, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, and Atlanta

West: Seattle, San Francisco, LA Rams, and Arizona


Placing some teams into more regional areas, would in my opinion boost not only game attendance, but also the sales of team gear. In some cases it would lessen some of the miles that teams must travel yearly too. Long standing rivalries like Dallas/Washington or Pittsburgh/Baltimore would still take place, but only every 4 years (unless they meat in the playoffs).

In addition, new revilaries might develop. A Pittsburgh/Indianapolis revilary might just be the new hot games each season.


:glug:

[mraynrand]

Good post. But you're spelleng was atroshuss.

[ThunderDan]

Do you know how many NFL games don't sell out? I have no clue and I am guessing it is the really bad teams so it won't matter who they are playing.

I don't think if I am Dallas fan I am going to buy more merchandise just because we now play ATL, TB and NO twice a year.

Changing divisions makes sense for some travel related issues but nothing else.

[SudsMcBucky]

I wish you the best of luck telling both Jerry Jones and also the owners of the other NFCE teams that the Cowboys are moving. Neither side would want that one bit. Also, I think you're vastly underestimating the rivalry between Carolina and the rest of the NFCS. That is a true natural rival.

[hoosier]

Certain traditional rivalries would always get in the way of this kind of shakeup. Dallas and its NFC East foes is the most obvious example.

[Radagast]

Do you know how many NFL games don't sell out? I have no clue and I am guessing it is the really bad teams so it won't matter who they are playing.

I don't think if I am Dallas fan I am going to buy more merchandise just because we now play ATL, TB and NO twice a year.

Changing divisions makes sense for some travel related issues but nothing else.


Placing teams closer together in their divisions will offer some teams fans easier access to travel to games. Many of these fans will purchase jerseys, hats, etc. and foster bus and car travel to games. It would place Dallas closer to New Orleans, Washington closer to Carolina (Charlotte N.C.) and a Miami/Jacksonville rivalry could just be epic twice a season. The AFC North teams would benefit more with a Domed Stadium in Indianapolis, a first for that division.

Also, shaking up the Conferences could offer benefits that we may not be able to predict at this time.

[run pMc]

They should also rename the divisions like they used to in the NHL, so nobody except diehard fans had any clue who was where.
e.g., the Madden, Nagurski, Graham, Brown divisions. Of course, they'd find a way to screw it up and have a Rozelle/Goodell division that nobody'd want to be in.

[Radagast]

I wish you the best of luck telling both Jerry Jones and also the owners of the other NFCE teams that the Cowboys are moving. Neither side would want that one bit. Also, I think you're vastly underestimating the rivalry between Carolina and the rest of the NFCS. That is a true natural rival.

Show Jerry that his bottom line would increase and watch how fast he would jump on board. In addition, a Washington/Carolina rivalry would see both benefit from the decrease in distance for the two teams.

Some would grumble, but soon they would climb onto the new revilary wagons.

[pbmax]

TV money runs the league. All other money is almost an order of magnitude less.

How does Jerry make more money if he is on TV less because he gets smaller TV markets?

I agree that ticket pricing and attendance are issues, but the solution won't be to move Dallas. Its been brought up before and none of the Division wants them to move.

[Radagast]

TV money runs the league. All other money is almost an order of magnitude less.

How does Jerry make more money if he is on TV less because he gets smaller TV markets?

I agree that ticket pricing and attendance are issues, but the solution won't be to move Dallas. Its been brought up before and none of the Division wants them to move.

Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and even New Orleans are not as small as Buffalo, GB, or even Arizona, but as far as TV is concerned all NFL teams share equally in the TV revenues the League is paid. So Houston gets the same TV revenue as does Seattle, Miami, or Cleveland. Dallas will get as much or more air time depending on weather they are winning or loosing. Sense GB's record over the past few years has fallen, they are therefor not seen nationally as much as when they win. Also, more regional interest can only serve to boost the local/regional programing that Jerry can claim as his own property.

I fully realise these changes will not occur, however I did say "if it were my call to make", so there you are.

[gbgary]

If it were my call to make, I'd rearrange some of the NFL's Divisions. This is what I'd do....



makes perfect sense to me.

[pbmax]

Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and even New Orleans are not as small as Buffalo, GB, or even Arizona, but as far as TV is concerned all NFL teams share equally in the TV revenues the League is paid. So Houston gets the same TV revenue as does Seattle, Miami, or Cleveland. Dallas will get as much or more air time depending on weather they are winning or loosing. Sense GB's record over the past few years has fallen, they are therefor not seen nationally as much as when they win. Also, more regional interest can only serve to boost the local/regional programing that Jerry can claim as his own property.

I fully realise these changes will not occur, however I did say "if it were my call to make", so there you are.

Sharing the TV revenue is not the same as being on TV. Jones' team in on TV all the time, partially because of an attractive to TV slate of markets (NY, Philly, DC). The TV money wants the Cowboys on TV with the biggest possible markets.

In turn, Jones' leverages the exposure into a multitude of marketing opportunities for football fans all over the world, not just locally. So they sell more merchansdise and recognize more revenue through this strategy than through a local strategy.

[mraynrand]

then probably should re-organize divisions according to TV market popularity. Have the most popular teams play each other twice a season as much as possible. maybe screw the divisions and just have 'em play four times a year?

[pbmax]

then probably should re-organize divisions according to TV market popularity. Have the most popular teams play each other twice a season as much as possible. maybe screw the divisions and just have 'em play four times a year?

Old school baseball style Leagues/Conferences. First time you play the AFC is in the Super Bowl. Create some rarity.

Or just play year round, every other week. 22 game schedule, round robin then semi-final and Championship. An octopus in a tank chooses who plays odd and even weeks at the start.


https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef01348519a08a970c-600wi

[esoxx]

They should also rename the divisions like they used to in the NHL, so nobody except diehard fans had any clue who was where.
e.g., the Madden, Nagurski, Graham, Brown divisions. Of course, they'd find a way to screw it up and have a Rozelle/Goodell division that nobody'd want to be in.

If they're going to rename any divisions, I would prefer they call it the Leaders and the Legends. Yup, that is the winning ticket.

Now pass me another New Coke.

[wthigoot]

They should also rename the divisions like they used to in the NHL, so nobody except diehard fans had any clue who was where.
e.g., the Madden, Nagurski, Graham, Brown divisions. Of course, they'd find a way to screw it up and have a Rozelle/Goodell division that nobody'd want to be in.

I think in keeping with the NHL the Rozelle and Goodell would be conferences so that no one could avoid them. Not sure which one the Raiders would choose if they were allowed to choose.

NFC = Rozelle Conference
AFC = Goodell Conference

Radagast is being way too sensible putting teams together geographically. It will never (be allowed to) work.

[wthigoot]

TV money runs the league. All other money is almost an order of magnitude less.

How does Jerry make more money if he is on TV less because he gets smaller TV markets?

I agree that ticket pricing and attendance are issues, but the solution won't be to move Dallas. Its been brought up before and none of the Division wants them to move.

Isn't that why long ago Atlanta and New Orleans were in the NFC "West"? I think that was pre-Jerry even.

Well maybe part of it was that only the Rams and 49ers were actually out west then. Seattle was in the AFC where (I think) they should have stayed, and the Cardinals were in St. Louis.

[Radagast]

Isn't that why long ago Atlanta and New Orleans were in the NFC "West"? I think that was pre-Jerry even.

Well maybe part of it was that only the Rams and 49ers were actually out west then. Seattle was in the AFC where (I think) they should have stayed, and the Cardinals were in St. Louis.

Yes, the NFL does have a long history of adding new teams, reorganizing both the Conferences/Divisions and the markets that they play in. Before the AFL and the NFL merged, the Pittsburgh Steelers were one of the oldest NFL teams and they landed in the AFC, as did Cleveland and Cincinnati. In addition, teams relocate as well. The Cardinals, Oilers, Colts, Raiders, Rams, and the Chargers come to mind.

Change has and will continue to be a part of the NFL. Will small market teams like Buffalo and Jacksonville survive. A Miami/Jacksonville rivalry could put new life into these teams.

[KYPack]

Yes, the NFL does have a long history of adding new teams, reorganizing both the Conferences/Divisions and the markets that they play in. Before the AFL and the NFL merged, the Pittsburgh Steelers were one of the oldest NFL teams and they landed in the AFC, as did Cleveland and Cincinnati. In addition, teams relocate as well. The Cardinals, Oilers, Colts, Raiders, Rams, and the Chargers come to mind.

Change has and will continue to be a part of the NFL. Will small market teams like Buffalo and Jacksonville survive. A Miami/Jacksonville rivalry could put new life into these teams.

This is a pretty cool thread, Rad. Baltimore, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh moved from the NFL to the AFC. Cincinnati was an AFL expansion team What the hell, it is all the NFL anyway. They moved to make the Conferences (NFC AFC) even with 13 teams each in '70 .

In the 3 seasons prior, the NFL had 16 teams. So they went to four 4 team divisions. This created one of the goofiest, most bastardized alignments in NFL history. The Coastal Division - SF, LA, Baltimore, & Atlanta. This made no sense and was the main reason Baltimore was happy to move to the AFC. That realignment also created the Capitol division. The blood feud between the Cowboys and Redskins was forged in that alignment.

A current re-alignment based on the thoughts in this thread? Maybe, but I don't see much of a revenue bump that would cause that to happen.

[Radagast]

This is a pretty cool thread, Rad. Baltimore, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh moved from the NFL to the AFC. Cincinnati was an AFL expansion team What the hell, it is all the NFL anyway. They moved to make the Conferences (NFC AFC) even with 13 teams each in '70 .


Your right, the Bengals played their 1st AFL season in 1968 and were a part of the AFL/NFL merger in 1970.

Change has always been a part of the NFL's history. Expansion teams, teams relocating, competing leagues and more are a part of it. I used to enjoy NFL Europe before it folded. Will the future see NFL teams in London, Barsalonia, and Mexico City? Will the NFL ever see a 40 team League? Could we someday see the Super Bowl played outside of the United States? If the past is any vision of the future, then anything is possible.

[pbmax]

Isn't that why long ago Atlanta and New Orleans were in the NFC "West"? I think that was pre-Jerry even.

Well maybe part of it was that only the Rams and 49ers were actually out west then. Seattle was in the AFC where (I think) they should have stayed, and the Cardinals were in St. Louis.

Yep. Part of that is Washington though. That franchise saw itself as the team of the South for a long time. So they were happy to try to limit the competition for those eyeballs.

[mraynrand]

If they're going to rename any divisions, I would prefer they call it the Leaders and the Legends. Yup, that is the winning ticket.

Now pass me another New Coke.

lol

[Radagast]

Moving Baltimore to the AFC East might just shake up that "NE" division. In addition, if Miami were in the AFC South. they might just turn their team around as well.

There is always a way to persuade people to change and Jerry Jones is no different. Show him that moving to the NFC South would be in his benefit and even he would accept a division change.

Here's another idea, an 8 team expansion to 40 teams. Cities like St.Louis, San Diego, Oklahoma City, Portland, and others may be interested in being an NFL city. Some have had some practice and could do better this time around. Just think of it a new team for each division. Could London and/or Mexico City come on board?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Moving Baltimore to the AFC East might just shake up that "NE" division. In addition, if Miami were in the AFC South. they might just turn their team around as well.

There is always a way to persuade people to change and Jerry Jones is no different. Show him that moving to the NFC South would be in his benefit and even he would accept a division change.

Here's another idea, an 8 team expansion to 40 teams. Cities like St.Louis, San Diego, Oklahoma City, Portland, and others may be interested in being an NFL city. Some have had some practice and could do better this time around. Just think of it a new team for each division. Could London and/or Mexico City come on board?
No evidence that Jerry would make more money. He would probably hate losing the exposure to the NY TV market, which gets a lot of national exposure.

Hell no to 8 more teams. There's enough crappy teams already and an even bigger no to London or Mexico City as locations. London is a completely non-viable location due to travel issues and Mexico City hasn't seem to host a game without major issues. Plus, good luck getting players to want to live there.

[Radagast]

No evidence that Jerry would make more money. He would probably hate losing the exposure to the NY TV market, which gets a lot of national exposure.

There's no evidence to say that he would not make more money either. A market study would need to be made. The NY Region gets no more exposure than the Atlanta Region or the LA Region or any other. Also, TV revenues are paid to the league and divided equally among all of the teams. In addition, NY watches Giants and Jets focused broadcast. Now Jerry may get great regional exposure in the Dallas Region, but his team programing is not seen outside of his region unless it is through some expensive satellite or internet source. At this point expanding Dallas team gear sales would depend on either winning a SB or marketing his team in new markets like London or Mexico City.

Switching Dallas to the NFL South could get more exposure to market areas closer to Dallas. Atlanta, New Orleans, and The Tampa Bay Region are not small markets and a new rivalry or two could foster old/new Cowboy fans to want to buy new hats and jerseys and more.

Posting your opinion and expecting me to accept it as fact just won't work. At least I allow that a study would need to be made.

[mraynrand]

There's no evidence to say....
Posting your opinion and expecting me to accept it as fact just won't work.

we're all guessing/estimating here, no?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I am in favor of a 40 teams, 20 weeks, 18 playoffs teams, conference-less NFL. Win your division and receive prom invitation. Use the Moby-Iverson Formula to determine wildcard tiebreakers and playoffs seedings. Or just create a playoff committee that includes Barry Alvarez.

It has been, what, 52 years since Loving vs Virginia. Time to get rid of conference segregation. I, for one, would like to see a Packers-Lions Super Bowl.

[SudsMcBucky]

There's no evidence to say that he would not make more money either. A market study would need to be made. The NY Region gets no more exposure than the Atlanta Region or the LA Region or any other. Also, TV revenues are paid to the league and divided equally among all of the teams. In addition, NY watches Giants and Jets focused broadcast. Now Jerry may get great regional exposure in the Dallas Region, but his team programing is not seen outside of his region unless it is through some expensive satellite or internet source. At this point expanding Dallas team gear sales would depend on either winning a SB or marketing his team in new markets like London or Mexico City.

Switching Dallas to the NFL South could get more exposure to market areas closer to Dallas. Atlanta, New Orleans, and The Tampa Bay Region are not small markets and a new rivalry or two could foster old/new Cowboy fans to want to buy new hats and jerseys and more.

Posting your opinion and expecting me to accept it as fact just won't work. At least I allow that a study would need to be made.

Except that the current NFC South is true rivalries already. They bleed over from college football with Georgia, Carolina, Florida, and Louisiana. Swapping out Carolina for Dallas would only actually dilute both the current TRUE NFC South rivalry that already exists AND weaken the NFC East rivalry between Dallas and the Skins/Giants/Iggles.

[Cheesehead Craig]

There's no evidence to say that he would not make more money either. A market study would need to be made. The NY Region gets no more exposure than the Atlanta Region or the LA Region or any other. Also, TV revenues are paid to the league and divided equally among all of the teams. In addition, NY watches Giants and Jets focused broadcast. Now Jerry may get great regional exposure in the Dallas Region, but his team programing is not seen outside of his region unless it is through some expensive satellite or internet source. At this point expanding Dallas team gear sales would depend on either winning a SB or marketing his team in new markets like London or Mexico City.

Switching Dallas to the NFL South could get more exposure to market areas closer to Dallas. Atlanta, New Orleans, and The Tampa Bay Region are not small markets and a new rivalry or two could foster old/new Cowboy fans to want to buy new hats and jerseys and more.

Posting your opinion and expecting me to accept it as fact just won't work. At least I allow that a study would need to be made.
You're ripping me on posting my opinion on an internet forum? Did you just get the internet?

Assuming the Cowboys join a new division will increase team apparel sales is faulty logic. Fans will buy apparel of their favorite teams regardless. I can't imagine the fan that says "Wow, the Cowboys are now in the NFC South, they are now my favorite team and I want to buy all new stuff of theirs". Doesn't happen. Guess what vast majority of gear is sold at stadiums, it's the home teams gear. There's no financial incentive for the Cowboys to switch stadiums and teams when their gear sales would be the same. They make their money at home games and primarily over the internet for sales of their gear. Rumor is you can get that stuff regardless of where you live and at any time of the day/night too.

It absolutely helps the Cowboys that they get to be broadcast in the NY/DC/Philly TV markets 2x season in each locale (those are the #1, 4 and 6 TV markets). The Cowboys are also quite often involved in the 3:30 CST TV slot which is broadcast over the majority of the country. This upcoming season they are the 3:30 game 6 times, the SNF game 3 times, and his annual Thanksgiving Day game and that's 10 games where his team is the national darling of NFL TV broadcasting w/o any special TV service. So there's no truth that he's not seen outside of his region. The NFC South offers nothing of an improvement for Dallas.

[ThunderDan]

we're all guessing/estimating here, no?

One thing we don't have to guess at is TV market.

NY, Phil, and DC vs. NO, Tampa and ATL.

I am picking group 1.

[ThunderDan]

Rank Metropolitan Market Regions / Areas
1 New York
2 Los Angeles
3 Chicago
4 Philadelphia
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth
6 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose
7 Boston
8 Atlanta
9 Washington, DC
10 Houston

Now why would Dallas want to move?

[ThunderDan]

New Orleans Ranks 53rd behind Milwaukee at 35th.

[mraynrand]

Now why would Dallas want to move?

Too hot and humid in the summertime

[mraynrand]

One thing we don't have to guess at is TV market.

NY, Phil, and DC vs. NO, Tampa and ATL.

I am picking group 1.

Sure, but you never know which teams will emerge and the teams that win and have talent can/will build national markets even if their home cities are small. Some large cities seem to never be football towns no matter how hard they try or how successful they are and some little towns just have a global reach as we all know. Broadcast and streaming is where the $$$ is.

[Radagast]

Too many of you are just looking to pick a fight. How many of you read my original post in this thread. In that original post I said,"If it were my call to make, I'd rearrange some of the NFL's Divisions."

To repeat, "If it were my call to make, I'd rearrange some of the NFL's Divisions." So you can bitch all you want, but It would be my call to make. So go cut Jerry Jones grass or paint his house and let it be.

[mraynrand]

Too many of you are just looking to pick a fight. How many of you read my original post in this thread. In that original post I said,"If it were my call to make, I'd rearrange some of the NFL's Divisions."

To repeat, "If it were my call to make, I'd rearrange some of the NFL's Divisions." So you can bitch all you want, but It would be my call to make. So go cut Jerry Jones grass or paint his house and let it be.

Well this is silly. Kinda funny, but silly. You posted because you wanted feedback - and you're getting it. Have fun with it or don't post.

How much does Jerry pay to have his lawn mowed and house painted? I can have a crew there in an hour.

[esoxx]

^^^^^^^
It depends on how good of a job you do, Jerry is very particular. I got great pay/tip as I'm good with the lawnmower. Painting, not so much. Was promptly bounced off the grounds when he got home and saw what I had done. Boom or bust with him.

[mraynrand]

^^^^^^^
It depends on how good of a job you do, Jerry is very particular. I got great pay/tip as I'm good with the lawnmower. Painting, not so much. Was promptly bounced off the grounds when he got home and saw what I had done. Boom or bust with him.

When all else fails, we can whip the horse's eyes and make him sleep. And cry.

[Cheesehead Craig]

If you tell Jerry you're from Atlanta, NO, or TB he'll realize that you'll improve his financial position with your lawn/painting work.

[pbmax]

Rank Metropolitan Market Regions / Areas
1 New York
2 Los Angeles
3 Chicago
4 Philadelphia
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth
6 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose
7 Boston
8 Atlanta
9 Washington, DC
10 Houston

Now why would Dallas want to move?

What happened to Houston?

Weren't they supposed to take over from Chicago for #3 years ago? When Welcome Back Kotter was on TV, I would always ask my father about that sign that said Brooklyn was the fourth largest city in America in the opening credits. When he got tired of answering questions about the ranking of cities by population, he would dismiss the subject by saying: it doesn't matter anyway, Houston is going to overtake them all soon.

[texaspackerbacker]

Houston doesn't have a lot of big population suburbs like most of those others. It has been sorta left out of the current oil boom because fracking doesn't apply to coastal areas or the other eastern Texas oil fields.

[pbmax]

Houston doesn't have a lot of big population suburbs like most of those others. It has been sorta left out of the current oil boom because fracking doesn't apply to coastal areas or the other eastern Texas oil fields.

Houston is one BIG suburb.

[Radagast]

I regret that a hypothetical reorganization has regressed to a, my market is bigger than your market discussion. The original idea was to place teams into more regional groupings as the NFC North already is. No teams were to be transferred from the NFC to the AFC or vice versa. Some rivalries would end, but new ones usually appear to take their place. Also, if such rivalries are that important, then teams will still meet every 4 years in the standard division rotation schedule. Additionally teams could meet sooner in the playoffs.

Moving some teams could introduce new life into divisions too long dominated by just one or two teams.

I never expected complete agreement on this idea, but as I should have expected there are always going to be the posters that delight in posting their disruptive and immature crap instead of impressing all with their intelligence.

Last, the NFL has already shown that expansion to places like London and Mexico City will occur someday. Cities like Toronto, Montreal, and possibly one day Havana could have NFL teams someday. Could Berlin, Madrid, Paris, or Rome also someday be NFL cities too?

[mraynrand]

I regret that a hypothetical reorganization has regressed to a, my market is bigger than your market discussion. The original idea was to place teams into more regional groupings as the NFC North already is. No teams were to be transferred from the NFC to the AFC or vice versa. Some rivalries would end, but new ones usually appear to take their place. Also, if such rivalries are that important, then teams will still meet every 4 years in the standard division rotation schedule. Additionally teams could meet sooner in the playoffs.

Moving some teams could introduce new life into divisions too long dominated by just one or two teams.

I never expected complete agreement on this idea, but as I should have expected there are always going to be the posters that delight in posting their disruptive and immature crap instead of impressing all with their intelligence.

Stop whining. There was plenty of good discussion and goofery. Pretty typical for a blog which was formed with the intention of being totally freewheeling. There are all sorts of Facebook groups with narrow focuses (foci?)with strict moderators that will keep everyone in their lanes if that's what you want (or so I've heard). And you can always go tell people to F-off on Twitter anytime you want.




Last, the NFL has already shown that expansion to places like London and Mexico City will occur someday.

I hope not.