Will Wide Receivers Hold Back This Offense?

[pbmax]

The talent on hand still seems a bit thin and has a history of injuries, so I am worried about depth too.

Say Adams, Allison and Krumerow are the starting WR, are they enough to power this offense to great heights? Do you trust Davis and ESQ as backups?

Or is this team going to go as far as the new running game will take them?

[Zool]

I think it will all depend on the fabled second year jump from a WR. Only the elite WRs are studs in their rookie season.

Adams rookie season - 38catches, 446yards, 11.7avg, 3TDs
MVS rookie season - 38catches, 581yards, 15.3avg, 2TDs
EQ rookie season - 21catches, 328yards, 15.6avg, 0TDs

And just for fun
Jennings - 45, 632, 14.0, 3
Nelson - 33 366 11.1 2
Calvin Johnson - 48 756 15.8 4
Sterling Sharpe - 55 791 14.4 1
Julio Jones - 54 959 17.8 8
OBJ - Freak - 91 1305 14.3 12

[Patler]

I don't know exactly why, but I'm not worried about the WR group in spite of the inexperience apart from Adams.

Allison is reliable, and trusted.

Kumerow is on the verge of being another like Allison. Just has to show it in regular season play over time.

Each MVS and ESB flashed talent last year without simultaneously raising any significant red flags beyond their inexperience. Both are big and fast. I would not be surprised to see either or both show significant development this year.

For the first time, I have hope for Davis as a receiver. Looked completely different during Family Night as a receiver. Went after the ball with strength and determination. Showed good hands. Must remember that for the most part he was working against very inexperienced DBs, but he always has in preseason and never before looked this reliable. He could be an interesting situational factor.

In spite of recent articles about him, Moore showed nothing. Didn't go for the ball with determination. Failed to make a difficult catch, but one you would expect a pro to make. But he still has all preseason to show improvement.

There are several "no-name" young guys who are interesting. Shepherd and J. Davis have kick/punt returner attributes, Lazard is huge.

In summary, I see enough depth in potential that I am not worried about finding 2 or 3 guys to run out there with Adams.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I too am not worried about the WR. Zool does have a good point about that the 2nd year jump will be key. Given we have 4 WRs in that group, at least one of them should hit.

[Gotarace]

If we run quick hitting tightly designed plays I think we're in great shape...if Aaron decides school yard running around until someone is open or throw it away or take a sack...it could be another long season on the offensive side of the ball.

[Smidgeon]

I am still hopeful J.Moore gets it together at some point. I think of the three rookies last year, MVS will clearly be the best of the trio. But I think Moore can still outpace EQ and both could be decent.

HOWEVER, I am having a tough time finding room for Moore on the 53 with Adams (1), Allison (2), MVS (3), Kumerow (4), Davis (5), EQ (6) and Sheppard (7). Do they keep 8? They might.

But it seems as if this team is deeper in many position groups than it used to be towards the end of the TT era. CBs, WRs, OL, and RB all seem to be a little overflowing right now.

[pbmax]

I maintain my concern and it extends to the unproven coach. We'll see. I think he sees the passing game as just an extension of the running game but sometimes it needs to function on its own.

[Upnorth]

I have become more concerned about our secondary. If almost all of our receivers look good to great then what does that say about our d? I understand training camp hitting rules favor the o, but the only d success is coming against kiser it seems.

[run pMc]

I am still hopeful J.Moore gets it together at some point. I think of the three rookies last year, MVS will clearly be the best of the trio. But I think Moore can still outpace EQ and both could be decent.

HOWEVER, I am having a tough time finding room for Moore on the 53 with Adams (1), Allison (2), MVS (3), Kumerow (4), Davis (5), EQ (6) and Sheppard (7). Do they keep 8? They might.

But it seems as if this team is deeper in many position groups than it used to be towards the end of the TT era. CBs, WRs, OL, and RB all seem to be a little overflowing right now.

I'm not sure they'll keep 7, much less 8. They have to go light somewhere else (TE, RB) to carry 8, and I don't see it with MLF's offense.

I agree Davis is a surprise - it sounds like he's been making a play almost every practice...and Kumerow has gotten better too.

This team haven't played a game yet, and an injury could easily sort out the roster. I do think they will try to stash 1 (Sheppard? Moore?) on the PS.

[QBME]

My concern is the ability to stay healthy. With the exception of Devante, all are slim and slight. Whether or not they can withstand the weekly hits is problematic. Kumerow has already been pulled from a couple of pre-season sessions for being dinged up.

With the new PI interpretation from the NFL, my guess is that defense's are going to be hitting on every play, daring the ref's to make a call.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm still hopeful also that Moore gets it together. With Davis seemingly shaping up as a receiver and presumably still the best kick returner, there are six excellent WRs ahead of Moore. So it would take keeping seven as well as not keeping any of the UDFAs, several of whom are apparently looking decent.

I think Kumerow was pulled because he already had a sore hand - not merely prevention. Most of the WRs in the league are fairly slim, and I'd hardly call 6'3 - 6'5 "slight".

[RashanGary]

I haven’t gone to practices in a number of years, the old days if you will. Mike Sherman practices and early McCarthy practices. I realized early that I could only learn so much at a practice. I couldn’t watch everyone. So I’d pick a position group and just watch them for the whole camp.

This year I picked receivers to watch. I’ve gone to 5 practices and watched almost exclusively WRs. I make my judgements by contrasting new players to known quantities, in this case, Davante Adams. Here is what I’ve gleaned:

Adams is a beast. He’s in ridiculously good shape. He catches everything. He dominates.

Graham is big and fast. He’s Rodgers second favorite target. He drops one here and there but you can see Rosgers loves throwing to graham. They constantly communicate and Rodgers constantly goes Graham’s way. You can see they have chemistry.

MVS looks like a star. He’s quick, smooth, in control, always practicing hard, whether he’s a deep decoy, blocker or 1st read. He had some setbacks last year where maybe Rodgers didn’t like his practice habits, Rodgers has said so much, but that is behind him. MVS has lights out speed, runs confident, effective routes, gets open and catches the ball. He’s young. It takes AR time to build real chemistry, but this guy is a #1 WR in the making and Rodgers first elite deep threat. I hate to like anyone tank hyped up due to 40 yard dash time, but this guy is good.

Allison is Allison. He’s reliable and in the same page with his QB inside. Allison will always pick the right chioce route inside and pick apart zone defense with the help of AR.

After this there is a drop. EQ and Davis look solid. They’ll be better dialed in with the QB than last years rookies if they have to play.

I don’t like anyone after that. Rodgers wont throw to dummies like Moore even tho he’s quick and fast. Kumerow is a slug. I like Shepherd most of the left overs but he’s small and a rookie. Excellent practice squad guy and if we get decimated, I think Rodgers could play with him.

Danny Vitale is the weirdest looking WR I’ve ever seen and I know he’s a fb but he could play WR, that’s how good he is running routes and catching the ball. I’ve never seen anything like it. I could see 30+ receptions from this guy.

Tonyan is on the verge of being serviceable

Our top 4, Adams, MVS, Graham and Allison..... one down we wouldn’t lose much. Two down we’d manage. After that, the offense starts to feel the losses.

[pbmax]

If MVS steps up my assessment will improve because I think Rodgers will work well with Kumerow if he has to play. Gives you four WR to work with plus Kuhn Jr.

[mraynrand]

If "Kumerow is a slug" is an accurate assessment, I don't get how he gets positive press. Perhaps JH is assessing when he's lined up against Texan starters? Maybe he's only successful lined up against their depth? I don't know. Maybe JH can give some more info on that. If he looks like a slug against starters, he still could be effective as a number 4 or 5 and/or against zone if he has chemistry with Rodgers. If Moore can't learn the offense (and if the reports from last year were true, how difficult will it be for him specifically to have to learn a whole new offense?), then he'll be gone. Davis has been getting good press so EQ seems to be the forgotten man. Guess it will come down to numbers...

[pbmax]

If "Kumerow is a slug" is an accurate assessment, I don't get how he gets positive press. Perhaps JH is assessing when he's lined up against Texan starters? Maybe he's only successful lined up against their depth? I don't know. Maybe JH can give some more info on that. If he looks like a slug against starters, he still could be effective as a number 4 or 5 and/or against zone if he has chemistry with Rodgers. If Moore can't learn the offense (and if the reports from last year were true, how difficult will it be for him specifically to have to learn a whole new offense?), then he'll be gone. Davis has been getting good press so EQ seems to be the forgotten man. Guess it will come down to numbers...

Rodgers has a lot of praise for someone who apparently can't play.

@JimOwczarski
Aaron Rodgers continued his praise of Jake Kumerow today & added that Tra Carson has really showed out in #Packers training camp w: Aaron Jones & Jamaal Williams missing time.

One other problem might be the backup speed WR to get to the top of the defense. If MVS isn't available or successful, kinda shortens the field.

[mraynrand]

One other problem might be the backup speed WR to get to the top of the defense. If MVS isn't available or successful, kinda shortens the field.

an argument for keeping Davis?

[pbmax]

an argument for keeping Davis?

Yes, but I am not sure I trust him given he has had one good camp and one good preseason. But I am not sure what else there is.

[RashanGary]

Kumerow is 6’5” maybe his long strides are deceiving me. But MVS looks lightning quick at 6’4 so I don’t think that’s it. Let’s keep in mind, Rodgers liked Ruvell Martin and Dick Rod was his #2 pass catcher in 2015/2016? Or whatever year that was.

I call him a slug because he looks like quick sand Herron in comparison to the other guys on the team. Him and Lazard look about the same as far as agility and explosiveness go.

Now, he’s so good at being exactly where Rodgers wants him. Plus he plays special teams. If our guys are healthy he’ll never see the field. If he does, Lafleur is gonna have to move him around and keep him away from the line of scrimmage because a slug like that is gonna get roughed up at the line.

Think Dick Rod/Ruvell Martin with Kumerow. That’s my view. His chemistry with Rodgers does make him better for our offense though. So in a pinch he could play, it would just be a big drop off from the guys in front of him.

He’s a great practice player though because he sets an example of where to be against various types of defenses, those subtlties are harder for some guys to pick up and Jake does set the standard there according to AR.

[Upnorth]

What about quickness and catch radius? If a "slow player" can make quick breaks and has a large catch radius a lot of the issues you bring up can be eliminated so long as you don't send him deep every other play.

I have no idea if he is quick, but you are actually watching him. Does he appear to have that quality?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Kumerow is 6’5” maybe his long strides are deceiving me. But MVS looks lightning quick at 6’4 so I don’t think that’s it. Let’s keep in mind, Rodgers liked Ruvell Martin and Dick Rod was his #2 pass catcher in 2015/2016? Or whatever year that was.

I call him a slug because he looks like quick sand Herron in comparison to the other guys on the team. Him and Lazard look about the same as far as agility and explosiveness go.

Now, he’s so good at being exactly where Rodgers wants him. Plus he plays special teams. If our guys are healthy he’ll never see the field. If he does, Lafleur is gonna have to move him around and keep him away from the line of scrimmage because a slug like that is gonna get roughed up at the line.

Think Dick Rod/Ruvell Martin with Kumerow. That’s my view. His chemistry with Rodgers does make him better for our offense though. So in a pinch he could play, it would just be a big drop off from the guys in front of him.

He’s a great practice player though because he sets an example of where to be against various types of defenses, those subtlties are harder for some guys to pick up and Jake does set the standard there according to AR.

Pretty sure Martin had long fled Green Bay long before Favre crossed the Rubicon, and therefore Martin never played with QB1 Aaron Rodgers (they were scout team teammates, though. ).

Perhaps you meant Brett Swain?

Excellent TC reports, btw. I'm making you president of the MVS Bandwagon Club. :)

[mraynrand]

^^^ I think he was just saying Martin is in the same class as Kumerow, not that they both played with Rodgers. Have to see more of Kumerow to be sure, but the comparison makes sense.

[RashanGary]

What about quickness and catch radius? If a "slow player" can make quick breaks and has a large catch radius a lot of the issues you bring up can be eliminated so long as you don't send him deep every other play.

I have no idea if he is quick, but you are actually watching him. Does he appear to have that quality?

His catch radius is amazing. He catches everything wherever the hell its thrown. And his adjustments to the defense are exactly what AR wants of him according to AR. So he has good qualities. But it’s the NFL, you have to be able to get off the line of scrimmage. If we have to play him I would expect motions and to see him lined up off the line of scrimmage to keep him from being smothered.

[Radagast]

Will WRs hold back this offense?

Such a question to pose of a team in transition. I'll be waiting to see just how many negative posters jump on the Packer Bandwagon when they see how well a running game can open up a field for Wide Receivers.

The thing is that some are not happy unless they something to complain about.

[mraynrand]

The thing is that some are not happy unless they something to complain about.

True. Stop complaining about it.

[RashanGary]

Moore is a guy who’s suddenness jumps out at you. Watching the WRs, he’s got the most burst, even more than Adams. But Adams is bigger so it’s not apples to apples there. Regardless, he has some physical skill. According to AR, they’ve been pushing scheme the early part of camp and starting to ramp up the full offense. Moore has looked lost and skidding to me. But then the two joint practices, Moore has looked damn good. But AR made it sound like it was so vanilla he was falling asleep. So it makes sense that the guy who doesn’t understand football played well when there were no adjustments to be made.

Preseason tends to be vanilla. I expect a big preseason from Moore but i don’t like him as a player at all.

I expect Adams, Graham, Allison and MVS to have limited reps. They are ARs dudes. AR puts all his energy into getting these 4 ready. I know because I see it. And they don’t get anything out of vanilla football with the backup QB so they just won’t play much.

So the preseason hero’s, my bet is on Davis, EQ, Kumerow, Moore and Shepherd.

[RashanGary]

Looking down the road, EQ is a high upside player. Comparing him to the guys I’ve watched this year, he’s tall like Kumerow and Lazard. He also has a suddenness to him, definitely a better athlete than Kumerow and Lazard. Based on last year, as a rookie, he does have at least enough football aptitude to play with AR. So I do see EQ as a long term piece and maybe #2 WR.

Down the road, I can envision a bunch of EQ/MVS outside with Davante in the slot because EQ seems to be the higher upside player over Allison. For right now though, Allison is the guy and a perfect slot piece for this year. Adams is still young enough to have all of his “just enough” speed. As Adams ages though, a move inside will allow him to rack up stats and success later in his career.

[QBME]

I'd hardly call 6'3 - 6'5 "slight".

Do not confuse tall with slim or slight. See Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, etc.

[mraynrand]

Do not confuse tall with slim or slight. See Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, etc.

On that same theme, Davis is far smaller than his height would indicate. At 6' 1" that guy has pencil legs that look thinner than DeSean Jackson's.

[pbmax]

Pretty sure Martin had long fled Green Bay long before Favre crossed the Rubicon, and therefore Martin never played with QB1 Aaron Rodgers (they were scout team teammates, though. ).

Perhaps you meant Brett Swain?

Excellent TC reports, btw. I'm making you president of the MVS Bandwagon Club. :)

2008. Big Five with Ruvell and Rodgers at QB.

[RashanGary]

I’m kind of annoyed, I noticed Shepherd stand out in the 5 practices I went to. He just always looked crisp and confident and plucks the ball naturally. He looks equally in control and aware in team drills as in isolated WR drills. I could just sort of see he felt comfortable playing NFL football. Annoying now to see the media talk about him. He was my surprise quality dude going into preseason.

[RashanGary]

I didn’t go to practices much the last 7-8 years, but I probably have 8, 9 years all together. Thompson used to talk about guys who just sort of rose to the moment, their eyes didn’t get too wide or whatever, just guys who show up and play ball. I’m starting to know how to spot that. It’s the difference between Bakh and Spriggs, the difference between Moore and Shepherd. Some guys just show up and have it. Other guys, physically superior as they may be just don’t get it. They look clunky and robotic or jittery and unsure. But you can see it in practice. You can see the confidence, consistency, sort of natural, intuitive savvy.... little things like adjustments and on the fly corrections after a slip, whatever. You can see the game is slowed down for some guys. They’re thinking ahead a setting things up instead of just trying to robotically do their assignment.

Obviously I can’t be in two places at once. But if I watch one group for 5 days, I can see things that prove true. It Was a fun training camp season for me. I hope I have the time to do it again next year. It’s been a while. I forget how fun it is and it’s cool to see how much better I’ve gotten at spotting football savvy.

[RashanGary]

15 years ago when I started, I could see the speed differences, I could see the explosion differences, but I didn’t quite know how to spot what comfort and confidence and assignment assuredness looked like. Now I can. That’s such a huge factor in predicting success, but also physical limitations can be so great that savvy won’t matter (see dick Rod.) Kumerow is tip toeing that line. He might be just barely athletic enough but he might be just too much of a slug. I’m leaning toward him being a slug tho. Gotta trust my eyes there.

[Teamcheez1]

Kumerow's biggest issues are he is 27 years old and has never really played a full NFL season. Now there are some concerns with his durability after last years injuries and already showing some wear in the preseason. If he is going to be your 5th, 6th, 7th string receiver, people are going to take a flyer on a younger receiver with more potential, whether they pan out or not.

He work very hard and that shows, but even with Rodgers praise, will that be enough to make the roster?

[run pMc]

Yes, but I am not sure I trust him given he has had one good camp and one good preseason. But I am not sure what else there is.

Kumerow ran a 4.52 and 4.56 at his pro day.
EQ ran 4.48 at the combine. If MVS can't do it, I think (as an alternative to Davis) EQ is big/fast enough to give a corner problems on a deep route. 6'5" players who can run sub 4.5's are uncommon. I do think he's better on route that work the middle of the field and is Allison's backup in the slot (when they aren't putting Graham there).

For comparison, Jordy ran a 4.51...what always stood out to me was his 10yd split was 1.50, which is very, very good.

Of course, speed only gets you so far if you can't read a defense, run a sharp route & separate, or fight off a press/jam at the line. (Or catch the ball, cough cough J'Mon)

[pbmax]

Kumerow's biggest issues are he is 27 years old and has never really played a full NFL season. Now there are some concerns with his durability after last years injuries and already showing some wear in the preseason. If he is going to be your 5th, 6th, 7th string receiver, people are going to take a flyer on a younger receiver with more potential, whether they pan out or not.

He work very hard and that shows, but even with Rodgers praise, will that be enough to make the roster?

Will be better if he doesn’t dive in celebrations.

[pbmax]

You’d think with a running game, motion, play action plus Davante and Graham you should be able to scheme MVS, Allison or Krumerow open or single covered.

It should work against zones well. Will need a technician or two to get open versus single coverage beyond MVS on a crosser.

[Upnorth]

If kumerows pro day #'s are still close to true then he isn't as slow as he appears which is a huge advantage,

[RashanGary]

I think I’d rather have an extra bag of official nfl footballs than J’mon Moore, both in regard to usefulness as it pertains to winning football games and just in terms of actual tangible value. J’mon Moore better not be a Packer 3 weeks from now or I’m gonna have a fritzian Gary meltdown.

[Bretsky]

I'm not a fan of J Moore..........but...........he really seems to get open a lot . Is he known to be a really good route runner ?

It does appear he can't catch a thing

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't watch much football, but it seems silly to me to have such a short leash on Moore if he is really that talented and gets open so easily. Give him another year to figure out catching. If he still can't next TC, then you move on.

[RashanGary]

I don't watch much football, but it seems silly to me to have such a short leash on Moore if he is really that talented and gets open so easily. Give him another year to figure out catching. If he still can't next TC, then you move on.

He’s quick and explosive. You can’t teach that. That’s why they took out a 4th round flyer on him. But he’s dumb as a box of rocks and has negative football savvy. It’s like the Brandon “run away from daylight” Jackson version of wide receivers. When it’s a mental capacity problem, it never gets better. It’s more than hands, it’s his whole head that’s broken. You can’t fix stupid.

[MadScientist]

He’s quick and explosive. You can’t teach that. That’s why they took out a 4th round flyer on him. But he’s dumb as a box of rocks and has negative football savvy. It’s like the Brandon “run away from daylight” Jackson version of wide receivers. When it’s a mental capacity problem, it never gets better. It’s more than hands, it’s his whole head that’s broken. You can’t fix stupid.

Other than the slip, it seemed like he was getting to where he needed to be. All the reports were that he was putting in the work to be a professional receiver. But bad hands / receiving technique are going to doom him unless they are fixed in the next 3 games.

[pbmax]

James Lofton said of Moore that he has poor hand position. Never in my history of following pro football have I seen a WR solve a hands problem. That dates to Willis Adams from the 1980 draft.

The closest I have seen anyone come to this is Jerry Rice. Who, after his rookie season, was known for bobbling the ball a little bit.

[texaspackerbacker]

To keep Moore, the Packers would probably need to both keep 7 WRs and cut or PS Shepherd and Lazard. While it would be nice to try and give him another year to develop, it just may not happen - barring an injury or two to the players on the rungs above him.

[bobblehead]

James Lofton said of Moore that he has poor hand position. Never in my history of following pro football have I seen a WR solve a hands problem. That dates to Willis Adams from the 1980 draft.

The closest I have seen anyone come to this is Jerry Rice. Who, after his rookie season, was known for bobbling the ball a little bit.

Guys have overcome it. Problem is that its usually overcome in college or worst case 1st offseason. He has had a ton of time to work on it, but he didn't. MVS was picking the small brain of Randy Moss, Tonyan was working with Kittles. Moore looks the part, but he didn't fix his problem. He should be all alone in a backyard with a juggs machine hand catching the football at 11pm right now.

[mraynrand]

He should be all alone in a backyard with a juggs machine hand catching the football at 11pm right now.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-iV-2X0SWHuo%2FUDWQYw2vS3I%2FAAAAAAAACgE%2FQyeaiHDWlB8 %2Fs1600%2Ftime_tunnel1.jpg&f=1

[Bretsky]

Can Moore or any of these guys fighting for the last two spots get us a 5th ?

OR

A backup QB

OR

A ILB ?

[mraynrand]

Can Moore or any of these guys fighting for the last two spots get us a 5th ?

Nah. Teams will wait for cuts or conditional 7th.

[esoxx]

James Lofton said of Moore that he has poor hand position.

Take it to the Garbage Can

[pbmax]

Take it to the Garbage Can

I said "higher" not "faster"!

[Joemailman]

Locks: Adams, MVS

Good bets: Allison, ESB, Kumerow

On the bubble: Shepherd, Lazard, Davis

In trouble: Moore

[call_me_ishmael]

All of the bloggers seem to think Shepherd is a good bet basically.

[texaspackerbacker]

The fact that Shepherd returned kicks and punts and did so well seems to say Trevor Davis is on the way out. I could see a significant chance of both Shepherd and Lazard making the team - 7 receivers kept - and Davis and Moore both getting cut.

[call_me_ishmael]

Receiver + Kaiser to the Eagles for Zach Brown. Who says no?

[texaspackerbacker]

Probably the Eagles hahahaha.

[mraynrand]

I don’t know about Kumerow’s ability to get downfield. I’d like to see them take a deep shot when Rodgers plays.

[bobblehead]

Receiver + Kaiser to the Eagles for Zach Brown. Who says no?

Eagles are loaded at WR so....

[bobblehead]

My gut says that EQ and Kumerow are in much more danger of not being on the final roster than people think.

[Rutnstrut]

My gut says that EQ and Kumerow are in much more danger of not being on the final roster than people think.




If they keep Moore over Kum or EQ, we will know that nothing has really changed in GB. Moore is not even a mediocre player.

[Teamcheez1]

Locks: Adams, MVS

Good bets: Allison, ESB, Kumerow

On the bubble: Shepherd, Lazard, Davis

In trouble: Moore

I'm also waiting another couple of weeks until the mysterious training camp injuries that allow the Packers to stash a few players on IR and keep them until next year.

[pbmax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkvmnLgrd-Q

[Anti-Polar Bear]

My gut says that EQ and Kumerow are in much more danger of not being on the final roster than people think.

If a healthy Kum doesn’t make the team, I will personally join the American Knights and organize a white power protest at Lambeau Field...peacefully, of course.

The WR unit as a whole is still weak, but Kum currently is a top 3 receiver on the roster. I would be fine and dandy with Allison, Moore, St. Paul and Davis not being on the final 53.

[mraynrand]

If a healthy Kum doesn’t make the team, I will personally join the American Knights and organize a white power protest at Lambeau Field...peacefully, of course.

why would you want to go and make me root against him?

[texaspackerbacker]

The third preseason game maybe should tell us a lot. Adams and MVS hardly seeing the field so far isn't all that surprising - they are in and no need to risk their health. St. Brown, though, would still seem to have something to prove - Allison too, so it's kinda strange that they haven't played more. Trevor Davis was supposedly setting the camp on fire as a receiver, and he hasn't played - at all that I have seen. What's with that? Is he so solid that he has nothing to prove? Or is he so much on the way out that they aren't bothering to play him? I'd guess the latter. Moore played little or none in the second game - that can't be a good sign for him staying. And of course, Shepherd and Lazard have both looked damn good, as well as Kumerow.

I like that idea of stashing whoever on IR, but I doubt getting away with that is quite as easy as some think.

My recollection of past years is that fewer WRs made the team than it seemed like should. If not for that factor, I'd say we keep seven: Adams, Valdez-Scantling, St. Brown, Allison, Kumerow, Shepherd, and Lazard - but who knows. We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

[RashanGary]

Kumerow definitely is a gamer. He earned it. I think only 5 WRs should make the team this year. Davis probably the 5th. Nobody wants a 5’10” WR who runs 4.6 so Shepherd should make practice squad. Lazard hasn’t been consistent enough so he should make it too. Moore is a retard but someone will take him because he’s explosive. But I don’t care. Let him go.

But I see 5 guys kept with the two young developmental guys on the practice squad. I think we have better backup OL than WRs so I’d rather see 9 or 10 of those than 6 WRs

[texaspackerbacker]

You might turn out to be right. They kept more cloddish O Linemen last year and before and less WRs. I HOPE it ain't that way, though. I see nine WRs maybe worth keeping - the seven I said plus Moore and Davis. You can't cut down to too low a number of O Linemen, but IMO, very very few of those 11 or 12 are anything but stumblebums. Another factor is that back up O Linemen are worthless in kick coverage and receiving, while WRs can do a lot of things there.

I could easily see keeping both 9 O Linemen and 7 WRs. That plus 2 QBs, 4 RBs (including FB), and 3 TEs adds up to 25 - which leaves the 3 specialists and 25 for the D to make 53.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

why would you want to go and make me root against him?

Well, you rooted against Janis...and Billy Schroeder.

Janis was a playmaker whenever he was on the field, be it at WR or ST. Dude should be on an NFL roster.

[mraynrand]

Well, you rooted against Janis...and Billy Schroeder.

It's OK, you don't have to lie.

[mraynrand]

Kumerow definitely is a gamer. He earned it. I think only 5 WRs should make the team this year. Davis probably the 5th. Nobody wants a 5’10” WR who runs 4.6 so Shepherd should make practice squad. Lazard hasn’t been consistent enough so he should make it too. Moore is a retard but someone will take him because he’s explosive. But I don’t care. Let him go.

But I see 5 guys kept with the two young developmental guys on the practice squad. I think we have better backup OL than WRs so I’d rather see 9 or 10 of those than 6 WRs

Well-reasoned. Be interesting to see them cut J'mon. Pictures on the telly don't tell me enough about comparative route-running, but really who cares if you're explosive if you can't reel the ball in and maybe don't get the offense (Rodgers won't throw to you)?

[Zool]

Well, you rooted against Janis...and Billy Schroeder.

Janis was a playmaker whenever he was on the field, be it at WR or ST. Dude should be on an NFL roster.

I wonder if he's still a "gamer" greeting people at the front door of Wal-Mart?

[Teamcheez1]

Per Acme, the snap counts for receivers in Baltimore:

Darrius Shepherd 28, Allen Lazard 22, Jake Kumerow 20, Equanimeous St. Brown 20, J’Mon Moore 18, Geronimo Allison 13, Marquez Valdes-Scantling 13, Teo Redding 11, Malik Taylor 9, Davante Adams 7

I don't remember seeing Moore on the field, yet he got 18 snaps, almost as many as Kumerow.

[yetisnowman]

Absolutely they will hold back the offense. It blows my mind that anyone could watch the offense last year, see them lose Cobb, and think that standing pat was a good move at WR.
Guys like ESB, Davis, Moore, Kumerow, Shepherd, etc should be fighting for one spot. 3 will probably make the team. Hope I'm wrong but i think outside of Davante the WR core has been overvalued.

[mraynrand]

Absolutely they will hold back the offense. It blows my mind that anyone could watch the offense last year, see them lose Cobb, and think that standing pat was a good move at WR.
Guys like ESB, Davis, Moore, Kumerow, Shepherd, etc should be fighting for one spot. 3 will probably make the team. Hope I'm wrong but i think outside of Davante the WR core has been overvalued.

Wait, you think the loss of Cobb is somehow devastating? 6 games, 40 receptions, 400 yards at best? Sorry, but those are Jeff Query level numbers. They'll probably get those numbers throwing to the fullback.

[Upnorth]

Wait, you think the loss of Cobb is somehow devastating? 6 games, 40 receptions, 400 yards at best? Sorry, but those are Jeff Query level numbers. They'll probably get those numbers throwing to the fullback.

Push that to 16 games and you are at 85 and 1000. I'll take that.

[Patler]

Push that to 16 games and you are at 85 and 1000. I'll take that.

Problem is, it will take him three seasons to get those 16 games.

[mraynrand]

Push that to 16 games and you are at 85 and 1000. I'll take that.

He started 6, played in 9 I see. I don't see his recent productivity being hard to duplicate, unless his replacement(s) also miss a lot of games.

[gbgary]

Will Wide Receivers Hold Back This Offense?

i think they probably do some considering there's not an obvious #2 and rodgers' "trust" issues with everyone other than adams and maybe allison (who's had health issues). rodgers getting past that would help but you know how leopards are in regards to their spots.

[Fritz]

Wait, you think the loss of Cobb is somehow devastating? 6 games, 40 receptions, 400 yards at best? Sorry, but those are Jeff Query level numbers. They'll probably get those numbers throwing to the fullback.

No way . . . Danny Vitale is hurt.

[Joemailman]

i think they probably do some considering there's not an obvious #2 and rodgers' "trust" issues with everyone other than adams and maybe allison (who's had health issues). rodgers getting past that would help but you know how leopards are in regards to their spots.

I think his trust issues with MVS may be much less than last year. Rodgers has talked about how much MVS' practice habits have improved this year. Some will downplay the importance of practice habits, but given how much emphasis Rodgers puts on practice (more important than preseason games), it's a significant change.

[RashanGary]

I think his trust issues with MVS may be much less than last year. Rodgers has talked about how much MVS' practice habits have improved this year. Some will downplay the importance of practice habits, but given how much emphasis Rodgers puts on practice (more important than preseason games), it's a significant change.

MVS stood out to me at practice. 5 practices, watching mostly WRs. It’s hours of data. It’s like a couple games of football, honestly. So I have a view that I think is more informed right now than most people.

Since seeing his suddenness in his breaks and explosion and confidence in his assignments, I’ve started to pay attention to him as a person. He’s smart. He has his own values. He doesn’t take shit from anyone and doesn’t let other people’s opinions phase him. He’s a little brash, almost offensive because he’s a leader and has ideas not a follower. But Rodgers respects him.

He’s so explosive and fast and tall and has everything really except weight. But he can go down easier like Moss did to save his body. But I do believe he’s a truly elite talent. Him and Rodgers are just learning each other. I could see this guy being 1b with Adams for the last 5 years of Rodgers career. And the perfect 1b because he stretches the field more than Adams.

[yetisnowman]

Wait, you think the loss of Cobb is somehow devastating? 6 games, 40 receptions, 400 yards at best? Sorry, but those are Jeff Query level numbers. They'll probably get those numbers throwing to the fullback.

Did i say it was devastating? It's still a loss of a starter and a loss of depth. Our production outside of Adams was thin last year and there was nothing done to upgrade. Just hoping that guys break out. It's a possiblity, but I'm expecting wr depth and consistency to be an issue just like last year.

[mraynrand]

Did i say it was devastating? It's still a loss of a starter and a loss of depth. Our production outside of Adams was thin last year and there was nothing done to upgrade. Just hoping that guys break out. It's a possiblity, but I'm expecting wr depth and consistency to be an issue just like last year.

Yeah, you could be right. I'd dispute the upgrade part though, just because I think they see the guys they drafted/brought in last year as growing into more prominent roles. Maybe we don't think much of them, but maybe they graded them higher, and that's why they didn't go sign/draft more. Time will tell.

[gbgary]

Yeah, you could be right. I'd dispute the upgrade part though, just because I think they see the guys they drafted/brought in last year as growing into more prominent roles. Maybe we don't think much of them, but maybe they graded them higher, and that's why they didn't go sign/draft more. Time will tell.

but will rodgers allow it to happen? it's not like those guys didn't get open last year.

[mraynrand]

but will rodgers allow it to happen? it's not like those guys didn't get open last year.

I dunno. I suppose he could just throw 600 passes to Adams, but the defense will figure it out pretty quick.

[RashanGary]

but will rodgers allow it to happen? it's not like those guys didn't get open last year.

Chemistry with the perfectionist take time. MVS is smart as a whip. AR does seem to respect EQs game. It’s a completely different year. 2nd year with AR helps those guys a lot.

[gbgary]

Chemistry with the perfectionist take time. MVS is smart as a whip. AR does seem to respect EQs game. It’s a completely different year. 2nd year with AR helps those guys a lot.

there's no time for that chemistry/trust bs anymore. the rodgers window (not that there is such a thing anymore) has reached the point where regardless of who it is, open is open. just throw it.

[RashanGary]

there's no time for that chemistry/trust bs anymore. the rodgers window (not that there is such a thing anymore) has reached the point where regardless of who it is, open is open. just throw it.

Thing is, Rodgers uses his eyes a lot to manipulate the defense. When he comes back to his guy, that guy better be where he’s expected to be. AR can’t dummy down his game and stare WRs down to see what idiot route they might have run. He has to count on them to be there. I do think it matters. The receivers need to rise to Rodgers level not the other way around. Or we’ll lose even more games with interceptions and sloppy ass college level QB play.

[bobblehead]

If they keep Moore over Kum or EQ, we will know that nothing has really changed in GB. Moore is not even a mediocre player.

well...I should have added that I don't need my gut to tell me Moore is all but gone.

[bobblehead]

Did i say it was devastating? It's still a loss of a starter and a loss of depth. Our production outside of Adams was thin last year and there was nothing done to upgrade. Just hoping that guys break out. It's a possiblity, but I'm expecting wr depth and consistency to be an issue just like last year.

The upgrade is 2 guys with a year under their belt and 2 guys who missed a lot of time that haven't been injury prone outside of last year. They should be much better this year. Add in an effective run game and we should be ok.

RB is the skill position people should worry about. Our only guy with talent is injury prone. Some people bagged on Monty for injuries, but Jones hasn't been any better.

[pbmax]

I dunno. I suppose he could just throw 600 passes to Adams, but the defense will figure it out pretty quick.

Never stopped Randolph Scott! I mean Sterling Sharpe!


https://i.imgur.com/U4x7Ayj.gif

[pbmax]

but will rodgers allow it to happen? it's not like those guys didn't get open last year.

Yes,yes. MVS, ESB and Moore all looked like rookies Adams and Allison out there.

[mraynrand]

Never stopped Randolph Scott! I mean Sterling Sharpe!


https://i.imgur.com/U4x7Ayj.gif

radio guy Ferrell (between drinks and bets at Bally’s) Said about the Packers ‘94 offense: “Favetosharpefavretosharpefavrretosharp”

[smuggler]

Shepard looks at least as good as Cobb was last year, granted its just in preseason play. A good bit of juice in his feet!

[texaspackerbacker]

The three who didn't play plus Kumerow, Davis, Shepherd, and Lazard - that would be a very decent WR corps (St. Brown on IR).

[gbgary]

Thing is, Rodgers uses his eyes a lot to manipulate the defense. When he comes back to his guy, that guy better be where he’s expected to be. AR can’t dummy down his game and stare WRs down to see what idiot route they might have run. He has to count on them to be there. I do think it matters. The receivers need to rise to Rodgers level not the other way around. Or we’ll lose even more games with interceptions and sloppy ass college level QB play.

agreed but what does any of that have to do with "regardless of who it is, open is open. just throw it."

[gbgary]

The three who didn't play plus Kumerow, Davis, Shepherd, and Lazard - that would be a very decent WR corps (St. Brown on IR).

it's one proven guy and a bunch of question marks...but yes it potentially is a decent group if they keep playing the way they are.

[pbmax]

agreed but what does any of that have to do with "regardless of who it is, open is open. just throw it."

Two reasons its not that easy:

1. You need to be open in sequence, which means the route has to be run with the right footwork. If you are Moore or Janis and just run to an empty spot, you don't always get spotted.

2. Rodgers does ignore the progression or change the play call at times. Then its up to the WR to understand the Rodgers unofficial offense.

Is a tough gig for a WR. But after the great offensive slowdown of 2015 and part of 2016, I think he felt he had to run it that way.

[yetisnowman]

Through 2 games

Marquise Brown - 12 catches, 233 yds, 2 Tds

MVS+Allison+Davis+Kumerow - 13 catches, 139 yds, 1 TD.

Granted GB has played better defenses and Lamar Jackson has been more accurate. But that's pretty rough.

[yetisnowman]

What's also rough is assuredly saying Jackson has been more accurate than Rodgers.

[Teamcheez1]

What's also rough is assuredly saying Jackson has been more accurate than Rodgers.

Jackson played possibly two of the worst teams in the NFL

[yetisnowman]

Jackson played possibly two of the worst teams in the NFL

Check out the highlights. He wasn't just racking up yards and TDs on cheapies. Again he's been more accurate through 2 games. Obviously It's early. But those are the facts.

[mraynrand]

I saw the NO game. Jackson looks better and more accurate than last year. Terrific athlete and top flight QB. Still has room to grow.

[yetisnowman]

Yeah he'll be 22 basically until the end of season. Scary.

[texaspackerbacker]

I have a very high opinion of Lamar Jackson - I'd liken him to Randall Cunningham. What I foresee, though, for a QB who runs as much as he does is at some point in his career, serious injuries. His back up, Robert Griffin, was something special too - coming out of college, probably a lot better thrower than Jackson, and Olympic type speed. His career, though, has floundered due to injuries. I see that as Jackson's probable future.

[pbmax]

Not simply patting myself on the back for this, but also wanted to say the pass offense has diversified as Rodgers and LaFleur negotiate a divorce from Mike McCarthy, but that the diversification has been to TEs and RBs.

Lions have the last approach on tape to consider. Wonder where the ball is going in the next few games.

[RashanGary]

They’ve been worse than I thought. MVS timid in traffic and doesn’t seem to go get the ball if it’s contested at all. Allison.... just bad. Kumerow, just not doing much. Shep and Lazard rookies...

I had higher hopes for MVS and Allison. Adams going down doesn’t help matters .

[Zool]

They’ve been worse than I thought. MVS timid in traffic and doesn’t seem to go get the ball if it’s contested at all. Allison.... just bad. Kumerow, just not doing much. Shep and Lazard rookies...

I had higher hopes for MVS and Allison. Adams going down doesn’t help matters .

Without Fresno, teams don't have to roll coverage anywhere. I'm starting to run along-side the trade for AJ Green train. What a boon that would be to the O if he's healthy.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not passing enough on first down is what's holding the offense back.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Not passing enough on first down is what's holding the offense back.

They are doing it 60% of the time already. They are currently 15th in the league in that category. Compared to the Chiefs who pass 64% of the time and are 10th, and the Rams are 5th at 67%.

Just to compare, SF is passing 43% of the time on first down and they are in last place in that category.

So I really don't think that's the issue.

[Radagast]

In my opinion, the athletic ability of the WRs, TEs, and the RBs is certainly a factor that along with the QB's skills are needed for a successful passing game, However their success or lack there of lies with the game research that proceeds the forming of every game plan. It takes into account not only an opponents strengths/weaknesses, but which receivers/pass patterns to best exploit those tendencies. Like most things, good or poor pre planning can determine the end result. The big question therefor is GBs underachieving passing game the fault of poor execution or poor planning? I believe it is a combination of both and improvement needs to be the order of the day.

The svncranisity of the QB / Receivers needs to be focused upon in practices, while better research would improve the game plans.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Crabtree? Dez, son of Anita? J-Nel? Any of these graybeards would be an upgrade over any of the wankers currently on the roster.

Do your fucking job, German Shepherd! Get a fucking receiver!

[Radagast]

Crabtree? Dez, son of Anita? J-Nel? Any of these graybeards would be an upgrade over any of the wankers currently on the roster.

Do your fucking job, German Shepherd! Get a fucking receiver!


I agree that the Packers Receivers could use an upgrade, however that will not take place this season. In the meantime as they await the return of Adams, I believe that Graham (yes Graham) and Tonyan will get more targets / receptions. Allison and Valdez-Scandling should also see more targets too. Also, J.Williams return from his concussion could see a few more balls thrown in his direction.

Not to take Detroit for granted, but I expect more passing and a little less running in this game. It will be as a result of more practice in the pass area prior to their MNF game. I mentioned Tonyan before, and I feel like he is going to have a star quality performance.

[Bretsky]

There are WR's that will be available that would really help us and I'm betting Gooter is calling and inquiring.

I think AJ Green will command a 1st or 2nd round pick.

I would be a fan of a mid round pick for a guy like Emmanual Sanders so we have a legit #2 when the Fresno Freak comes back

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I agree that the Packers Receivers could use an upgrade, however that will not take place this season. In the meantime as they await the return of Adams, I believe that Graham (yes Graham) and Tonyan will get more targets / receptions. Allison and Valdez-Scandling should also see more targets too. Also, J.Williams return from his concussion could see a few more balls thrown in his direction.

Not to take Detroit for granted, but I expect more passing and a little less running in this game. It will be as a result of more practice in the pass area prior to their MNF game. I mentioned Tonyan before, and I feel like he is going to have a star quality performance.

A wanker is a wanker is a wanker. MVS ain’t gonna morph into Javon Walker as the season loses its lust. Kum ain’t gonna morph into Adam Fucking Thielen. Sloth ain’t gonna morph into Anquan Bolden.

What hurts the most is, Gutekunst had his pick of the litter in the 2nd Rd of the last draft. Metcalf. Brown. Hardman. Isabella. Arches-Whitside. Campbell. Did I mention DK Metcalf?

Took a fucking center instead.

The pessimist says that Pack ain’t got the WMDs to beat NE in the next Super Bowl.

[Teamcheez1]

NE has worse receivers than we do.

[Radagast]

Elgton Jenkins (G) was GB's 2nd round pick and their 3rd player taken in the 2019 NFL draft. He is proving to be a great choice. Sternberger (TE) has not lived up to his 3rd round choice, but Tonyan may prove to be a real peach.

With Adams injured, GB is without it's only real #1 WR. That said if the 4 and 1 Packers can use the time that Adams is sidelined to get their receivers more game and practice targets with Rodgers, it can only result in better Receiver/QB chemistry. No Green Bay TE or WR or RB, IMO, with the exception of Adams is a #1 player for their position (as receivers). Aaron Jones is getting it done at RB this season, but even he is not a star receiver.

I'm seeing improvement with the receivers and wish them all well. I foresee no changes until the season ends and then hope to see GB grab 1 to 2 WRs early in the 2020 Draft. I don't see the GM scrambling up a fragile core of receivers until the end of the season.

I'm not sure when Adams will be 100% ready to play.

[Bretsky]

NE has worse receivers than we do.


Hmmmm...not sure....but they also have some great receiving RB's and with Both Hoody Geniuses one of the best offenses still.

Edelman
Josh Gordon
Philip Dorsett

Undoubtedly I'd take Adams over all three. But right now they would be my 2,3,and 4 ahead of any other Packer WR's

[texaspackerbacker]

Any of you guys remember when a lot of people were calling Adams the Fresno Fraud? I have to admit to being one of those who was down on him. The point is, it takes time in most cases for a WR to reach his peak. Valdez-Scantling performs as good and has the potential to be a lot better than Adams in his early years. Allison is what he is, but he ain't near as bad as some in here whine about. Kumerow, Lazard, Shepherd, St. Brown when healthy are all unproven at this point, but out of the four, I'd bet at least one or two of them prove out as quality starters.

I was thinking same as somebody said - Green would cost a first or second round pick, and no way it would be smart for the Packers to give up near that much to get him.

[bobblehead]

There are WR's that will be available that would really help us and I'm betting Gooter is calling and inquiring.

I think AJ Green will command a 1st or 2nd round pick.

I would be a fan of a mid round pick for a guy like Emmanual Sanders so we have a legit #2 when the Fresno Freak comes back

AJ Green...#2 WR. That should strike fear into any defense.

[bobblehead]

Hmmmm...not sure....but they also have some great receiving RB's and with Both Hoody Geniuses one of the best offenses still.

Edelman
Josh Gordon
Philip Dorsett

Undoubtedly I'd take Adams over all three. But right now they would be my 2,3,and 4 ahead of any other Packer WR's

No, their offense sucks. They get a ton of scores from D and D setting them up with league leading # of turnovers. That offense really isn't anything special (or good). Plus they get to play the dolphins like 7 times this season it seems.

[Zool]

There are WR's that will be available that would really help us and I'm betting Gooter is calling and inquiring.

I think AJ Green will command a 1st or 2nd round pick.

I would be a fan of a mid round pick for a guy like Emmanual Sanders so we have a legit #2 when the Fresno Freak comes back

Who cares about the 32nd pick? Go get a pro bowl receiver to pair with a pro bowl receiver.

[Patler]

A wanker is a wanker is a wanker. MVS ain’t gonna morph into Javon Walker as the season loses its lust.


He may not have to do any morphing to be as good as or better than Walker.. As a rookie, MVS was more productive than Walker as a rookie. More receptions, more yards, higher ypc, more TDs, longer longest reception, more of everything, except fumbles. MVS had fewer fumbles than Walker.

[call_me_ishmael]

Who cares about the 32nd pick? Go get a pro bowl receiver to pair with a pro bowl receiver.

Yep exactly. AJ Green for the next few years is easily worth what they'd get at 32 if they win a chip in the process. Even if they don't - at least they went for it.

[Joemailman]

Salary cap, people. Rodgers and Adams will have a combined salary cap hit of 49 million next year. The Smiths another 30 million. Can't afford another 8 figure salary for a WR. Having 2 Pro Bowl WR's is a luxury the Packers can't afford.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Salary cap, people. Rodgers and Adams will have a combined salary cap hit of 49 million next year. The Smiths another 30 million. Can't afford another 8 figure salary for a WR. Having 2 Pro Bowl WR's is a luxury the Packers can't afford.

Packers have over 9M in room still this year. Next year isn't too bad especially if they get rid of Graham and use the 8M cap space for a good WR.

[RashanGary]

Recipe for success might be to stack the defense, give AR decent OL and then ask him to make chicken salad out of chicken shit with younger, cheaper players.

When you have a 35M quarterback, something’s gotta suffer. I think I’d rather it be receivers than defense.

[pbmax]

Salary cap, people. Rodgers and Adams will have a combined salary cap hit of 49 million next year. The Smiths another 30 million. Can't afford another 8 figure salary for a WR. Having 2 Pro Bowl WR's is a luxury the Packers can't afford.

I am sure Packers can talk the Raiders or the Browns to eat some short term cap.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

He may not have to do any morphing to be as good as or better than Walker.. As a rookie, MVS was more productive than Walker as a rookie. More receptions, more yards, higher ypc, more TDs, longer longest reception, more of everything, except fumbles. MVS had fewer fumbles than Walker.

Get back to me when MVS catches 89 rocks for 1382 yards and 12 TDs in a season.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Recipe for success might be to stack the defense, give AR decent OL and then ask him to make chicken salad out of chicken shit with younger, cheaper players.

When you have a 35M quarterback, something’s gotta suffer. I think I’d rather it be receivers than defense.

The cap always be cooked, but if you want a good receiver cheap, draft one in the 2nd round. Worked wonders for Todd.

Don't draft a fucking center.

[Radagast]

https://i0.wp.com/www.follyofthecross.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/chicken-little-sky-is-falling-1a.jpg?ssl=1

Relax fellows, the sky ain't falling.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Hmmmm...not sure....but they also have some great receiving RB's and with Both Hoody Geniuses one of the best offenses still.

Edelman
Josh Gordon
Philip Dorsett

Undoubtedly I'd take Adams over all three. But right now they would be my 2,3,and 4 ahead of any other Packer WR's

Word.

[George Cumby]

Recipe for success might be to stack the defense, give AR decent OL and then ask him to make chicken salad out of chicken shit with younger, cheaper players.

When you have a 35M quarterback, something’s gotta suffer. I think I’d rather it be receivers than defense.

This.

[Radagast]

Before the season began, I posted that I believed that the new offensive system would be a work in progress. It has been just that.

The temporary loss of Adams, GB's #1 WR, has actually been something of a cloaked benefit for the Packers. It has forced the offense to focus more on the running game. Also, at the same time, the receivers have not had to compete with Adams in practice/games and are ahead of where they would be with a healthy Adams.

Jamaal Williams return from his concussion should see LaFleur/Rodgers more inclined to run the screen pass to the RB (Williams) more. It could serve to elevate the play of the offense still further and take some pressure off of the WRs/TEs as the RB would require a LB or Safety to cover them.

I see the Packers building, brick by brick, a solid offensive machine. Additionally, when Adams does return to duty, he'll rejoin an offense that will be better than when he left with his injury. Gutekunst and LaFleur, IMO, are ahead of where most thought their efforts should bear fruit. Injuries, especially to Adams, are being worked around and the team has adapted enough to compensate/accommodate different offensive areas to produce a 4 - 1 early season record.

I'm overjoyed to see the Packers Defense playing so well. Yes it took a lot of resources to build it , but it is already producing great results. I'm quite sure that the next player/s acquired will be WRs. However I don't foresee that happening until after the season ends. GB's receivers may not be all pros, but they are leagues ahead of any new additions that would need to learn the Packer's offensive system. They may not be superstars, but I see weekly progress moving forward.

4 - 1 , stop bitching and celebrate the change/success that GB is/will continue to enjoy. One very close loss to the Eagles, a strong team, is no reason to hang your head. Instead, realise that GB used that loss to improve areas of deficiency. Be happy about today's good fortune and quit whining over things that you can not control.



Don't worry, be happy !

[pbmax]

Recipe for success might be to stack the defense, give AR decent OL and then ask him to make chicken salad out of chicken shit with younger, cheaper players.

When you have a 35M quarterback, something’s gotta suffer. I think I’d rather it be receivers than defense.

Gute agreed with you this offseason.

I doubt he agrees with you next.

Nothing wrong with cheap, young, new talent.

[Radagast]

Gute agreed with you this offseason.

I doubt he agrees with you next.

Nothing wrong with cheap, young, new talent.


GBs offense , while not boasting Super Talent (except Rodgers/Adams), but they are getting the job done. Mortgaging the future to trade for a better WR at this point would be wrong. Not only would it damage the already fragile confidence that the receivers have been building up with their QB, but any new personal would have to learn GB's new offensive system. I see the offense progressively getting better each week and to fool with whats working is just not done in sports. IMO, GB's receivers are getting better each week and to screw with them at this point would be crazy.

[pbmax]

GBs offense , while not boasting Super Talent (except Rodgers/Adams), but they are getting the job done. Mortgaging the future to trade for a better WR at this point would be wrong. Not only would it damage the already fragile confidence that the receivers have been building up with their QB, but any new personal would have to learn GB's new offensive system. I see the offense progressively getting better each week and to fool with whats working is just not done in sports. IMO, GB's receivers are getting better each week and to screw with them at this point would be crazy.

So don't draft ANY receivers?

Doesn't competition help? Steel sharpening steel?

[Radagast]

So don't draft ANY receivers?

Doesn't competition help? Steel sharpening steel?

Draft, yes of course. Making dramatic changes at this point however would be the wrong thing to do. Draft or persue a WR after the end of this season and not before then.

[pbmax]

Draft, yes of course. Making dramatic changes at this point however would be the wrong thing to do. Draft or persue a WR after the end of this season and not before then.

Have to strike when the iron is hot. Depends on price of what is available.

[Radagast]

Have to strike when the iron is hot. Depends on price of what is available.

OK then (GM) pbmax, please tell us all about the deal that "you" would make, the draft picks you would sacrifice, the $s you would pay out, how soon your phantom WR would be up to speed and ready to fit into LaFleur's offensive scheme, etc. Explain your brilliant plan to acquire a Top WR from another team. He would of course need to be a Top WR to justify cutting another player from GB's roster and just who would the player be?

I know that you have considered every consequence and the potential benefit for the Packers. We would ALL be riveted to your considered analysis.

[RashanGary]

Adams is a #1
For all of MVSs weaknesses in traffic, he does take the top off with speed and reliable deep ball hands. I’ve been impressed with his blocking effort too. I wouldn’t be shocked with 800 yards from him

Allison sucks

Shep has a chance in the slot, next year for sure and maybe even this year.
ESB has a chance to be a decent player too

Jones, Williams and Vitale catch the ball

Sternberger and Tonyan have passing game potential long term


Drafting one is a really good idea. But I’m not sure you want to take away from the defense to add receivers. Money is tight. Defense is important.

[Bretsky]

OK then (GM) pbmax, please tell us all about the deal that "you" would make, the draft picks you would sacrifice, the $s you would pay out, how soon your phantom WR would be up to speed and ready to fit into LaFleur's offensive scheme, etc. Explain your brilliant plan to acquire a Top WR from another team. He would of course need to be a Top WR to justify cutting another player from GB's roster and just who would the player be?

I know that you have considered every consequence and the potential benefit for the Packers. We would ALL be riveted to your considered analysis.


The tone of this post sucks; I'm assuming you meant it to.

I think PB is very well aware that there will be options for Gooter to make a deal happen , as we all are. And he's merely suggesting we don't have an unlimited time window.


Personally I'd do exactly what I suggested about 20 posts ago. I'd trade for Emmanuel Sanders. And I'd happily give up a 4th or 5th rounder for him and I think that gets it down. He'd fit under our cap as this year he was paid an option of 10.25 Million so maybe we have about 6 of that to pay. And he's free next year, which is why a team probably does not need to give up a ton, and Denver cannot command a ton

And we have all kinds of low upside guys we can cut. You could start with Tre Carson. But there are tons of other options. I'm sure you can look at the roster and name a bunch more.

[RashanGary]

The tone of this post sucks; I'm assuming you meant it to.

I think PB is very well aware that there will be options for Gooter to make a deal happen , as we all are. And he's merely suggesting we don't have an unlimited time window.


Personally I'd do exactly what I suggested about 20 posts ago. I'd trade for Emmanuel Sanders. And I'd happily give up a 4th or 5th rounder for him and I think that gets it down. He'd fit under our cap as this year he was paid an option of 10.25 Million so maybe we have about 6 of that to pay. And he's free next year, which is why a team probably does not need to give up a ton, and Denver cannot command a ton

And we have all kinds of low upside guys we can cut. You could start with Tre Carson. But there are tons of other options. I'm sure you can look at the roster and name a bunch more.


Emmanuel Sanders at 6 to finish the season for a 5th round pick would be reasonable. We’re close to a SB caliber team. What about Antonio Brown for 2M on a prove it deal??

[RashanGary]

In all honesty, Brown is better than Adams as a pure football player. Obviously not when you account for trust worthiness and potential team cancer.... but Brown would catch on real quick I bet.

[Zool]

Salary cap, people. Rodgers and Adams will have a combined salary cap hit of 49 million next year. The Smiths another 30 million. Can't afford another 8 figure salary for a WR. Having 2 Pro Bowl WR's is a luxury the Packers can't afford.

Green's contract is up at the end of this season. Graham's is essentially up at the end of this season. I might give up a 2nd rounder to get 9 games of AJ green...I think....maybe?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

In all honesty, Brown is better than Adams as a pure football player. Obviously not when you account for trust worthiness and potential team cancer.... but Brown would catch on real quick I bet.

Hell yeah. Sign AB! Rison all over again. Victory over Pats in SB.

[call_me_ishmael]

Bottom line - the Packers, despite a great OL, don't have the horses to win a super bowl offensively as it stands today. Whether you _want_ to pony up and pay is sort of irrelevant if you want to win. You can either invest in the WR spot and have a shot at winning in the playoffs, or leave it as is and lose in the playoffs.

The money thing will work itself out. Having too many good players to pay is a good problem to have.

You just know this cat is gonna end up in New England. Once they got Brown on the cheap and let him go, I have assumed they'd make a play to acquire another talented and available receiver. They clearly felt they needed the help and the value was there. I imagine they'd feel the same about Green.

[pbmax]

OK then (GM) pbmax, please tell us all about the deal that "you" would make, the draft picks you would sacrifice, the $s you would pay out, how soon your phantom WR would be up to speed and ready to fit into LaFleur's offensive scheme, etc. Explain your brilliant plan to acquire a Top WR from another team. He would of course need to be a Top WR to justify cutting another player from GB's roster and just who would the player be?

I know that you have considered every consequence and the potential benefit for the Packers. We would ALL be riveted to your considered analysis.

Apparently, you are easily entertained by internet trade proposals. But sure, I'll play along with your demand.

Assuming he is fundamentally healthy (need a physical and history to determine if he is simply getting older or just a run of bad injury luck), trade for Emanuel Sanders.

4th round pick in either of the next two years. I might do a 3rd in the future (2021) if I believe the Defense will continue to get results.

I would consider better picks for AJ Green, but publicly they refuse to speculate about trading him and the price might be astronomical. My range on Green would be restricted by his cost and injuries this year. By the time he is healthy, he might sink in pick value.

Stick Shepard on the PS. I find it amusing you think a WR needs to be the TOP to justify cutting the 53rd player on the roster. You're homerism is cute.

Would take 4 weeks to be up to speed but Sanders could have specific plays called for him in game until he knows the whole package.

The problem Radagast, is that I called the Broncos GM Elway and for some reason, he wouldn't take my call. So I don't actually know the price for Sanders. I also called Rodgers, Adams and LaFleur to ask if they thought Sanders could learn the offense AND fit in with the locker room, but I have still not heard back. Gute's number rang through to voicemail, but he also has not reached out. Packer PR was very rude and laughed when I called. Gilbert Brown was happy someone checked in with him and he is on board with this plan.

So, lacking access to critical information, its hard to formulate a proposal to your dumb yet exacting standards.

But for myself, I would LOVE to know that Gute-Pettine-LaFleur believe the defense will tighten up and that the surprisingly effective offense (we all thought 6 weeks before it could be judged) and high turnover defense might induce Gute to make some calls. That is all I want to know: does he think this team is ready this year? Which is why my baseline approach is not to formulate fan trade proposals and call the local radio guys, but hope someone asks Gute and he tells us something interesting.

Before we leave, I'll have you know that woodbuck thinks that Patler, KYPack, Rand, Bretsky, Rashan or I could be a better Packers GM than Ted. He never specified if we would all need to be linked together in some sort of hive mind though. In any case, I am not taking the job unless we can track down Lurker64 for player evals, Harv for the pro side and bobble agrees to head the analytics department.


* If recent shakier outings (Eagles, 2nd half Cowboys) are more what to expect, I might keep the powder (draft picks) stored.

[pbmax]

Forgot the cap numbers:

Sanders is $10 million base, his cap hit and signing bonus stay with the Broncos I believe. $5 million to rent for 8 games. They might need to rearrange some money but have the space to fit him in.

Green is $12 million base this year, the cap hit and his signing bonus I believe stay with the Bengals. So he would cost $6 mill for half a season. Packers have $9 mil in space, won't want to use it all up so I expect either Jimmy Graham goes (less likely with Tonyan gimpy and Sternberger on IR) or Rodgers needs to rearrange some money.

[RashanGary]

I do not see the Packers paying big money for a WR. A one year rental, sure, maybe, but actually signing a guy long term that will take away from the defense..... I don’t see it happening.

[pbmax]

Forgot the cap numbers:

Sanders is $10 million base, his cap hit and signing bonus stay with the Broncos I believe. $5 million to rent for 8 games. They might need to rearrange some money but have the space to fit him in.

Green is $12 million base this year, the cap hit and his signing bonus I believe stay with the Bengals. So he would cost $6 mill for half a season. Packers have $9 mil in space, won't want to use it all up so I expect either Jimmy Graham goes (less likely with Tonyan gimpy and Sternberger on IR) or Rodgers needs to rearrange some money.

Forgot to mention both in last year of deal. They could raise a fuss about being traded but it could conceivably help both to play with Rodgers versus their current offenses.

No long term cap damage.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't think we need a WR. However, getting a star quality player on the cheap is never a bad thing. I absolutely would not trade a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick for either Green or Sanders. 5th or lower, maybe. As for Antonio Brown, I don't think the Patriots are stupid. There has to be something they know that caused them to cut him right after signing him - probably more legal troubles due to surface. Even if Brown is signable in terms of not being suspended, I wouldn't pay him near what the Patriots were gonna pay him. Somebody said $2 million ....... that's probably a dream on situation, but for that much, he'd be worth a try even with the baggage.

[run pMc]

I kind of agree with Tex: I wouldn't trade a R1-4 pick for a WR, unless someone was dangling a really good player (e.g., Julio Jones).
I also think the Pats aren't stupid and that Brown is still out there despite his talent speaks volumes about how toxic he is...and probably what NFL security knows. I wouldn't want him on the team -- how do you explain to at least 30-50% of your fanbase that you are ok employing a known locker room problem and alleged rapist? Please keep McGinn from dusting off his "what price glory" opinion piece. Do you want MVS, Lazard, and Sheppard around that guy and learning his bad behaviors?

I disagree with Tex from the standpoint that we don't need a WR. We need any receiver to step up. We might be able to squeak past a few teams, but that's an 8-8 team that beat Dallas unless Graham find the rejuvenation machine, Adams gets healthy, and MVS develops into a solid #2 option. I suspect no good offers materialize for Gute to jump on, and he expects the WR we need to emerge from the group they have.

[pbmax]

I kind of agree with Tex: I wouldn't trade a R1-4 pick for a WR, unless someone was dangling a really good player (e.g., Julio Jones).
I also think the Pats aren't stupid and that Brown is still out there despite his talent speaks volumes about how toxic he is...and probably what NFL security knows. I wouldn't want him on the team -- how do you explain to at least 30-50% of your fanbase that you are ok employing a known locker room problem and alleged rapist? Please keep McGinn from dusting off his "what price glory" opinion piece. Do you want MVS, Lazard, and Sheppard around that guy and learning his bad behaviors?

I disagree with Tex from the standpoint that we don't need a WR. We need any receiver to step up. We might be able to squeak past a few teams, but that's an 8-8 team that beat Dallas unless Graham find the rejuvenation machine, Adams gets healthy, and MVS develops into a solid #2 option. I suspect no good offers materialize for Gute to jump on, and he expects the WR we need to emerge from the group they have.

Doesn't seem to have hurt Justin Smith-Schuster Smithington-Smythe

[Anti-Polar Bear]

1st and 3rd for OBJ?

[pbmax]

1st and 3rd for OBJ?

No. I would be agains handing over a 1st. This team still has holes. Need to be a relative bargain and since they don't have to be a dominating WR, I think you could find one.

[Bretsky]

No. I would be agains handing over a 1st. This team still has holes. Need to be a relative bargain and since they don't have to be a dominating WR, I think you could find one.


The Titans pass offense is just horrible

I wonder what it would take to get Corey Davis

[mraynrand]

nm

[Bretsky]

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS POST

Gooter might wanna get on the phones this week

[red]

theres a certain former packer whos not doing anything these days, and has a great relationship with our QB

hes not gonna be a long term answer, or a world beater at this point, but he might be able to be an actual #2

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahahahahaha at this whole thread. If we had paid too much to get Green or whoever, who woulda got cut? Almost certainly Allen Lazard!

I say again, in the words of the top hit song of 1965, "Let's Hang on to What We've Got"! One of these games, MVS is gonna have a break out game. One of these games, Kumerow is gonna play like he did in preseason. And yes, one of these games, Shepherd is gonna start to look like Cole Beasley or whoever. And soon, we'll have Adams back.

[pbmax]

Not me, I was dumping Shepard. Possibly my best dumb suggestion of the year.


Assuming he is fundamentally healthy (need a physical and history to determine if he is simply getting older or just a run of bad injury luck), trade for Emanuel Sanders.

4th round pick in either of the next two years. I might do a 3rd in the future (2021) if I believe the Defense will continue to get results.

I would consider better picks for AJ Green, but publicly they refuse to speculate about trading him and the price might be astronomical. My range on Green would be restricted by his cost and injuries this year. By the time he is healthy, he might sink in pick value.

Stick Shepard on the PS. I find it amusing you think a WR needs to be the TOP to justify cutting the 53rd player on the roster.
.

[bobblehead]

The Titans pass offense is just horrible

I wonder what it would take to get Corey Davis

Thats the drum I been pounding. Plus Corey is young and knows the flower O.


theres a certain former packer whos not doing anything these days, and has a great relationship with our QB

hes not gonna be a long term answer, or a world beater at this point, but he might be able to be an actual #2

And thats actually reasonable given the circumstances.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not me, I was dumping Shepard. Possibly my best dumb suggestion of the year.

Maybe a good suggestion, but it wouldn't have happened because Shepherd is clearly the designated punt returner now that Davis is gone.

I still think, one horrible game not withstanding, Shepherd has a bright future too - and horrible game not withstanding, we DID still win.

[Fritz]

Tex, why can't you overreact like the rest of us?

And do you realize that after winning this game, the Packers are going to have to go 1-9 to meet my 6-10 prediction? God, it's going to be awful.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha as I say quite often in FYI, sucks to be you.

I have liked Shepherd from the first I saw him in the preseason. He reminds me a lot of Cole Beasley who I saw with the Cowboys, now with Buffalo or even whatshisname that filled that role with the Patriots. I always thought Randall Cobb was not very good in that role.

I like to think I have mellowed with age and don't overreact any more hahahaha. I can see where some might occasionally disagree, though.

[beveaux1]

After the Lazard show, I'm less inclined to show hate to the WRs. I still think we're extremely limited outside of Adams.

Scantling had 2 catches, one was an end around thrown forward, the other was a bomb-his only route that is above average.

Allison had 3 catches and 2 drops. He is able to run some routes, but separation is difficult.

Kumerow had 2 catches, both short, with no YAC.

Shepherd was ….pretty useless.

Outside of Lazard, who used his frame and hands pretty well, even though he struggles to separate from defenders, we had no receiver that distinguished himself.

But...if Lazard continues to make strides and if Adams returns healthy, they might be able to give Rodgers some help.
Perhaps as much help as a receiver from another team could give without much knowledge of the playbook.

Next year, they have to draft a talented young WR fairly early. It's still one of the weakest positions on the team.

[RashanGary]

MVS is an awesome #3. He really stretches the field. He’s awesome at deep bombs!

Adams is a #1. We’re missing a #2, but it sure looks like Lazard this year. Now, question is, MVS stays outside. Lazard is an outside guy... does that mean Adams plays slot during 3 WR sets??

As far as 2 WR sets (and we have a lot of them)
2TE 1RB
TE FB RB
TE RB RB

Adams would be outside.


So what I’m suggesting is during 11 personnel, Lazard knocked Allison off, but since he’s an outside guy only, that bumps Adams, who’s an everything guy, inside.

This is what I think is coming.

[Radagast]

MVS is an awesome #3. He really stretches the field. He’s awesome at deep bombs!

Adams is a #1. We’re missing a #2, but it sure looks like Lazard this year. Now, question is, MVS stays outside. Lazard is an outside guy... does that mean Adams plays slot during 3 WR sets??

As far as 2 WR sets (and we have a lot of them)
2TE 1RB
TE FB RB
TE RB RB

Adams would be outside.


So what I’m suggesting is during 11 personnel, Lazard knocked Allison off, but since he’s an outside guy only, that bumps Adams, who’s an everything guy, inside.

This is what I think is coming.


I too would like to see Adams return, but how long does a turf toe last? When can he be expected to be pronounced healthy?

Each week see's The Packers offense improve. More practice with Rodgers should see steady Receiver improvement. With the exception of Savage, I'm happy with the WR/TE depth that made the GB roster.


5 - 1

Let's try to smile a bit, shall we.

[RashanGary]

Based on my renowned interweb degree in sports medicine and Adams unlimited access to recovery resources, his fierce drive to do everything he can, his age and overall health.....

I expect Adams to return to practice on a limited basis next week but not play vs Chiefs. Again, limited basis the week after, and then play part time against the Chargers.

Savage, with a high ankle sprain, I expect 2 more missed games. High ankle are often 6 weeks. 5 for Savage cuz he’s so young.

In my mind, I have the Chiefs down as a loss, so hopefully we’re 6-2 going into the Chargers game with Adams and Savage healthy and the rest of the team, knock on wood, mostly healthy too. Would set us up for a strong second half of the season, with a week 11 bye in there to help the Packers rest up and self scout for the division push to end the season. Pending health, I’d expect a 12-4 to 13-3 finish.

[RashanGary]

49ers still have

Seahawks home
Seahawks road
Rams home
Packers home after the Packers bye
Ravens road
Saints road (with Brees back)
Panthers home


They have some good teams on the schedule. Hopefully we beat them and finish with the same record. That would set us up with a playoff bye, again self scout and recovery leading into the post season push. Or possibly Saints lose a couple more. Setting is up with the same bye.

After that a couple of playoff wins culminating in a 5th Packer Super Bowl victory.

[Radagast]

The Packers close out the regular season against their three division rivals. Some are willing to check one or all 3 off as sure victories but I never do. Division rivals like the Lions and Vikings and Bears get played twice every year and are the least likely to be afraid of a winning record or impressed by an historic stadium. GB can't afford to take their foot off of the gas at all against them.

As for between now and then, On any given Sunday.

[Zool]

Maybe OJ Howard?

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/16/buccaneers-te-o-j-howard-is-a-prime-trade-target-for-the-packers/

[mraynrand]

With the exception of Savage, I'm happy with the WR/TE depth that made the GB roster.

I agree. Savage isn’t much of a receiver but he’s as good as anyone whose worn #21 in Green Bay for quite some time.

[pbmax]

I agree. Savage isn’t much of a receiver but he’s as good as anyone whose worn #21 in Green Bay for quite some time.

I knew this board would eventually turn Kafka-esque.

[pbmax]

Apropos of nothing, I remember reading a retrospective of Billy Joel. It was written by someone who wasn't fond of the music but was curious what caused it to be longstanding and still popular.

They didn't come away liking the music much better, but were struck by the fact that so many of his lyrics were complaints about unarmed others making his life miserable. But there wasn't a common or identifiable antagonist or point of view. Billy just had some complaints about the rest of you and not much to offer himself.

I don't know what made me think of this.

[mraynrand]

All the waiters in my new hotel, roll their roses at my feet.

[ThunderDan]

All the waiters in my new hotel, roll their roses at my feet.

Don’t Ask Me Why!

[yetisnowman]

Dammit I wish the Pack drafted Hardman. Dude's electric.

[yetisnowman]

No homo

[run pMc]

Maybe OJ Howard?

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/16/buccaneers-te-o-j-howard-is-a-prime-trade-target-for-the-packers/

Yeah I saw this and it annoyed me because there are a lot of these "we should trade for X" articles that are just thrown out there like Gute is a moron for not making it happen. How do we know if he's even on the block?
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2019/10/buccaneers-wont-trade-o-j-howard

I wanna see a "Julio Jones, Keenan Allen and Travis Kelce are prime trade targets" article next. These jokers are playing (fantasy football) with themselves.

[Fritz]

Turns out it's not the receivers holding this offense back, it's the lack of receivers.

[pbmax]

Turns out it's not the receivers holding this offense back, it's the lack of receivers.

Same Ol' Packers. SOP.

[Joemailman]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2859975-usain-bolt-says-im-ready-to-join-nfl-if-patriots-or-aaron-rodgers-call-me?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral


Having tried his hand at making it as a soccer player since hanging up his running spikes, Jamaican sprinting icon Usain Bolt has said he would love to try to crack the NFL—but only if he got a call from the New England Patriots or Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers.

[mraynrand]

Bolt is wise enough to know who’s in charge in Green Bay.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd bring him in as a kick returner, and I'd have him run back about 20 kicks with no blockers in front of him - just to see if he could take a hit without fumbling. If he survived without fumbling, sign him.

[mraynrand]

That’s money thinking. Bring in the best sprinter in world history and give him a concussion. Probably more effective and a better PR move to just send him a ball peen hammer and have him do it to himself.

[texaspackerbacker]

But will he hold on to the ball after getting his head bashed in? If not, he can sprint back to Jamaica.

[yetisnowman]

Through 9 games
DK Metcalf - 29 catches 525 yds 5 TDs
Geronimo - 20 catches 205 yds 2 Tds
MVS - 22 catches 420 yds 2 Tds

[Fritz]

So you're comparing a second-round pick to an undrafted free agent and a fifth-round pick?

[pbmax]

So you're comparing a second-round pick to an undrafted free agent and a fifth-round pick?

I think he is suggesting we merge those two together with a transporter accident.

[run pMc]

Big deal. I liked Terry McLaurin, he was taken R3 and has 32 catches 492 yds 5 TDs.
I was also a fan of AJ Brown and Mecole Hardman, they aren't slouches as rooks either.
We can cherry pick and play favorites with rookies and wouldashouldacoulda. I think it's been established that the WR group is not among the most talented/capable of winning 1-1 battles to gain separation. MLF has to work harder to scheme them open, and use the RBs as receiving weapons in the meantime.

Having a stud TE would also make up for the WRs but we all know about that. Given the Metcalf whining, I'm mildly surprised we don't have crying about not trading both R1s for Hockensen.

[mraynrand]

So you're comparing a second-round pick to an undrafted free agent and a fifth-round pick?

I think he’s pointing out that DK is more productive than. Receivers 2+3 for the Packers. DK and MVS were about identical a few weeks back, then Adams went out and the offense went to Jones /spread around. I’ve watched Seattle - DK is getting specific limited looks and he’s making the most of them. Overall though, I don’t like Seattle’s offensive scheme, but the results are great because Wilson makes it work when it matters (which is most of the time because they give up a lot of points).

Metcalf is better now and will get much better than MVS or Geronimo. You make your choose and you live with them. Run the ball, baby!

[mraynrand]

Given the Metcalf whining, I'm mildly surprised we don't have crying about not trading both R1s for Hockensen.

Just you wait....

[bobblehead]

Hockenson hasn't done enough to make us all claim we knew how good he was all along.

[RashanGary]

Seahawks are the 2011-2016 packers. HOF QB, great offense. Average to bad defense. They’ll win regular season games but not very likely to win SB

[mraynrand]

Seahawks are the 2011-2016 packers. HOF QB, great offense. Average to bad defense. They’ll win regular season games but not very likely to win SB

I wasn’t prepared to go that far cuz I haven’t seen them play enough. But late in games, Wilson does run the EO quite a bit.

[beveaux1]

Seahawks are the 2011-2016 packers. HOF QB, great offense. Average to bad defense. They’ll win regular season games but not very likely to win SB

This is the 2019 Packers, but without the great offense.

[call_me_ishmael]

What the heck happened to Valdez Scantling? He is doing jack shizzle for my fantasy team and not even getting targeted!

[yetisnowman]

So you're comparing a second-round pick to an undrafted free agent and a fifth-round pick?

Uh yeah I am. I'm comparing the guys we have vs guys we could have drafted this season. I've been beating this drum for a while. We stood pat in terms of wrs this offseason, and I don't think it's working out so great. I'm ecstatic we are 8-2, but the wrs outside of Adams are a major weakness.

[Freak Out]

What the heck happened to Valdez Scantling? He is doing jack shizzle for my fantasy team and not even getting targeted!

The one deep target I saw he should have caught...maybe had a hand trapped..dunno.

[Joemailman]

Uh yeah I am. I'm comparing the guys we have vs guys we could have drafted this season. I've been beating this drum for a while. We stood pat in terms of wrs this offseason, and I don't think it's working out so great. I'm ecstatic we are 8-2, but the wrs outside of Adams are a major weakness.

I think Kumerow and Lazard are good role guys. Allison is toast. Packers have to draft a #2. Do that and get Sternberger involved, and they'll be pretty good.

[yetisnowman]

I think Kumerow and Lazard are good role guys. Allison is toast. Packers have to draft a #2. Do that and get Sternberger involved, and they'll be pretty good.

Yeah they are all great role guys. Thing is the 2 of them plus MVS/Allison should be battling for 2/3 roster spots ideally.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1194669081116303360


I started scouting in 2003. This upcoming WR class is the best I've ever seen.

Good news for the Packers. Don't be surprised if they take two in the top three rounds.

[texaspackerbacker]

Sheeeesh! Don't be surprised if we still don't take any WR at all, especially not early in the draft.

We need D Line help; We need O Line help; And unless they take my advice and move Lazard to TE, they need a quality TE. We also could certainly use a quality ILB, and you can never have too many cover Corners - arguably, Alexander is the only top quality one we have, and sometimes he hasn't been that great.

[run pMc]

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1194669081116303360



Good news for the Packers. Don't be surprised if they take two in the top three rounds.

Yeah, I've heard the next draft should be deep at WR, which is good news. I think they like MVS and Lazard, but they others? Meh. Kumerow and Allison are replacable, and they need someone to field punts.
I mostly agree with tex -- they need DL and especially ILB help. They need someone who can play OT also: Bulaga can't be counted on returning (or staying healthy), Bahk has had an off year, and Alex Light is JAG. I disagree with him (obvs) on the need for better WR talent.

I think between Tonyan and Sternberger they have a pair of young players they probably can work with at TE, but finding another player there would help them too. Barring a miraculous rejuvenation, Lewis and/or Graham are likely done.

Yeah, I could see them taking a Day 3 flyer on a corner too. Speaking of which, has anyone seen I Voted For Kadar Hollman? I thought he'd be getting some snaps by now, especially with King's bumps and bruises.
Depending on Dexter Williams, they might take another flyer on a RB, although I suspect they bring in some UDFAs.

[Fritz]

I have come to see Allison as a very, very limited player. He never was fast, but he doesn't even seem to use his height and length to grab contested balls. I don't think Lazard is much better, though he is younger so perhaps he can still grow into it.

Kumerow is okay, but I wouldn't keep him around next year if he's not a good special teams player.

MVS has been a bit of a mystery. He seems to really struggle to get open. Maybe he's a lousy route-runner, but I would hope he'd get better. His hands are not great, either. But maybe he'll get better. I'm less confident of that now than I was prior to the season.

I think they need to do what Ted did with the running backs a few years ago: draft about two or three in a row, maybe rounds three through five or something.

[beveaux1]

I have come to see Allison as a very, very limited player. He never was fast, but he doesn't even seem to use his height and length to grab contested balls. I don't think Lazard is much better, though he is younger so perhaps he can still grow into it.

Kumerow is okay, but I wouldn't keep him around next year if he's not a good special teams player.

MVS has been a bit of a mystery. He seems to really struggle to get open. Maybe he's a lousy route-runner, but I would hope he'd get better. His hands are not great, either. But maybe he'll get better. I'm less confident of that now than I was prior to the season.

I think they need to do what Ted did with the running backs a few years ago: draft about two or three in a row, maybe rounds three through five or something.

I think you were being facetious when you called for Gute to draft 2 or 3 WRs in a row in the middle rounds since we just did that 2 years ago and ended up with one trick pony and the saint.
We need a 1st or 2nd round WR with more tools in their tool chest than height and/or deep speed. Find one with hands, route running ability, deep speed, ability to shrug off jams,
a mind that knows when to break a route away from a defender with inside or outside leverage, and one with the discipline not to round routes so that he can end up where the pass is supposed to be.

Pick one with 3 or 4 of those abilities and you have a #2 receiver. If he also stands over 6' tall, he might be a future #1.

[run pMc]

I think they need to do what Ted did with the running backs a few years ago: draft about two or three in a row, maybe rounds three through five or something.

The thing is, Gute did this with R4-6 last year and got Moore (released), MVS (fighting thru knee/ankle injuries), and ESB (on IR). I agree they need to draft at least one more WR, but I'm not sure they want to draft 3 without expecting to release 2 of them. Those mid-round picks can be pretty valuable.
I could see them taking one in R2 a la Adams and then a late round flyer like in R6 or 7 to be a jitterbug and return punts.

Every team has holes, I suppose Gute et al. will prioritize the biggest ones, but I have to think besides WR and PR he's got to consider

Who steps up if Kenny Clark goes on IR?
Is Ibraheim Campbell the long-term answer to replacing Oren Burks?
Who steps in at RT if Bulaga walks?

[yetisnowman]

Is there anyone out there that thinks WR/TE position doesn't need a complete revamp? It's bad out there. They should trade up and sell out for Jerry Jeudy and I'm not even kidding. They wasted a good receiver draft last year. No more time to waste. Keep Davante, Lazard, Kumerow scrap the rest. And approach the goddamn offseason like you need to fill 3 spots. Keep trying to tell you guys this group is a HUGE liability

[texaspackerbacker]

TE yes. If there is anybody remotely like Kittle or Kelce in the draft, we ought to grab them - although arguably, our exposed damn O Line and our pathetic D Line and our easy to beat D Backs need more attention. And for all of the above, free agency should certainly be considered too.

WR, though, is a different story. The reason for lack of success against teams with excellent D is purely because of the shitty damn O Line and lack of time to throw. And we have been ok including to WRs against average D or lesser teams. It would be nice to have a speed burner like Will Fuller of the Texans for example, but arguably we already have that with Valdez-Scantling, and either way, the O Line just doesn't pass protect good enough - Rodgers mobility is an absolute necessity on virtually every play, and last night, even that wasn't enough.

[yetisnowman]

"Arguably" . Uh no old man, there's no argument.
MVS - 11 games, 23 catches, 423 yards, 2 Tds.
Fuller - 8 games, 41 catches , 590 yards, 3 Tds.

MVS has 2 catches for 11 yards.....in his last 4 games!

Anyone dying on this hill for our garbage receivers is just to stubborn to admit they were wrong. And they know damn well they were.

[yetisnowman]

Not to mention one TD and 90 yds receiving came on one play in garbage time in a game that was won already.

[Joemailman]

Is there anyone out there that thinks WR/TE position doesn't need a complete revamp? It's bad out there. They should trade up and sell out for Jerry Jeudy and I'm not even kidding. They wasted a good receiver draft last year. No more time to waste. Keep Davante, Lazard, Kumerow scrap the rest. And approach the goddamn offseason like you need to fill 3 spots. Keep trying to tell you guys this group is a HUGE liability

I agree that WR is maybe their biggest need. However, I disagree that they should necessarily trade up. Some are saying the 2020 WR class could rival the great 2014 class when Adams was the 9th WR taken. There should be really good WR's available into the 2nd round.

[red]

it was pretty clear we needed to make a trade for a WR before deadline day

we do not have the time to draft a WR and wait 2 to 3 years for him to get up to speed

we need to either trade for a #2 or sign a #2 this offseason

[woodbuck27]

I think Kumerow and Lazard are good role guys. Allison is toast. Packers have to draft a #2. Do that and get Sternberger involved, and they'll be pretty good.


I like Lazard a lot.

[woodbuck27]

it was pretty clear we needed to make a trade for a WR before deadline day

we do not have the time to draft a WR and wait 2 to 3 years for him to get up to speed

we need to either trade for a #2 or sign a #2 this offseason


Yes it has to be pronto and ALL IN at WR.

[yetisnowman]

it was pretty clear we needed to make a trade for a WR before deadline day

we do not have the time to draft a WR and wait 2 to 3 years for him to get up to speed

we need to either trade for a #2 or sign a #2 this offseason

There are rookie receivers contributing all over the league. And next year's class is loaded. I count 11 rookie receivers having a better year than MVS statistically. Draft a top tier prospect at that position. There's no reason if you choose correctly, that there will be some arduous developmental period. I say load up on offense with early draft picks.
I hate that Gary pick more and more by the day.

[woodbuck27]

it was pretty clear we needed to make a trade for a WR before deadline day

we do not have the time to draft a WR and wait 2 to 3 years for him to get up to speed

we need to either trade for a #2 or sign a #2 this offseason


Not bringing in a solid WR by the Trading Deadline was a sign of surrender.

Just stupidity.

[ThunderDan]

Not bringing in a solid WR by the Trading Deadline was a sign of surrender.

Just stupidity.

Or a sign that management doesn’t think this team is ready. After our last 2 years finishing 11-5 is beyond my wildest expectations. We are over performing our talent on this team. We need another year or two to make up for the couple of draft class clunkers TT had that should be some core year 3 to 5 players.

[Joemailman]

Or a sign that management doesn’t think this team is ready. After our last 2 years finishing 11-5 is beyond my wildest expectations. We are over performing our talent on this team. We need another year or two to make up for the couple of draft class clunkers TT had that should be some core year 3 to 5 players.

I think this is right. You don't trade draft picks for a veteran to help you win the NFC North. Only if you think it can give you a legitimate shot at the SuperBowl. I've never felt that way about this team this year. I started the year just hoping they could return this year to playing winning football. They've done that.

[call_me_ishmael]

Or a sign that management doesn’t think this team is ready. After our last 2 years finishing 11-5 is beyond my wildest expectations. We are over performing our talent on this team. We need another year or two to make up for the couple of draft class clunkers TT had that should be some core year 3 to 5 players.

Good post. I hadn't really looked at it from this angle. I tend to agree.

[run pMc]

You don't trade draft picks for a veteran to help you win the NFC North. Only if you think it can give you a legitimate shot at the SuperBowl.

Someone forgot to tell Ryan Pace this.

[pbmax]

Someone forgot to tell Ryan Pace this.

Shhhh.

[Bretsky]

How many GB Packer WR's would you trade for the top Badger WR ?

Just seems like we got Devante, a #4, and a bunch of #6's

[bobblehead]

"Arguably" . Uh no old man, there's no argument.
MVS - 11 games, 23 catches, 423 yards, 2 Tds.
Fuller - 8 games, 41 catches , 590 yards, 3 Tds.

MVS has 2 catches for 11 yards.....in his last 4 games!

Anyone dying on this hill for our garbage receivers is just to stubborn to admit they were wrong. And they know damn well they were.

MVS is clearly injured and fighting through it. Think of James Jones his second year when he was fighting through a knee injury and then broke out in year 3. MVS, I believe, is a legit #2. That doesn't mean you don't grab a talent in round 2 if its there. You got BPA and deal with it. You use FA to fill glaring holes.

[bobblehead]

How many GB Packer WR's would you trade for the top Badger WR ?

Just seems like we got Devante, a #4, and a bunch of #6's

Seems like we have a QB who focuses too much on Devante. This offense was pretty good and we all were giddy when Devante was out. Coincidence?

[pbmax]

PackerToddsnEnds @ToddStelzel
This year Davante Adams has played in 7 games so far.

When targeted 10 or more times, #Packers are 1-3.

When targeted 9 times or less, Green Bay is 3-0.

Sounds like a winning game plan to me
@JonAriasRadio @BillHuberSI @bscottwrn @scottdolphin @BobBrainerd
.

Todd Cichon @Torch100
Richard Sherman was quoted saying Packer Wr didn’t scare them. Face it while fans may like our band of FA WR.
None are a # 2 on most teams . There is a reason they were FA. While they have talent . Good defenses expose their shortcomings.


You need three threats. They have two (Adams and Jones). You could get precision performance and get by, but Rodgers is still running too much extended offense).

Also, Davante's numbers problem point to game script, not a game plan or QB issue.

[Fritz]

I agree. When Adams wss out, Rodgers seemed to actually run the offense. Adams comes back, and the other Rodgers comes back - always chasing the big play.

I could deal with this if the defense was shutting teams down, but they are giving up big plays like a dirty college girl.

[pbmax]

I agree. When Adams wss out, Rodgers seemed to actually run the offense. Adams comes back, and the other Rodgers comes back - always chasing the big play.

I could deal with this if the defense was shutting teams down, but they are giving up big plays like a dirty college girl.

Teams have adjusted too. Its not just a binary of Adams or no Adams.

[Fritz]

Agreed. But that means The Flower has to re-adjust, and Rodgers needs to run the offense.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree. When Adams wss out, Rodgers seemed to actually run the offense. Adams comes back, and the other Rodgers comes back - always chasing the big play.

I could deal with this if the defense was shutting teams down, but they are giving up big plays like a dirty college girl.

Did you seriously see Rodgers "chasing the big play"? What I saw was no time to do anything except throw those shitty little sideways passes or run for his life - our pathetic O Line didn't allow time for anything else. Am I the only one who prefers extending the play to throwing quick often into coverage, etc.? When Adams was out, I saw just as much extending the play and throwing it down the field as with him back. That IMO is the best way to execute the offense - unless, of course, the pass blocking is absolutely non-existent, as it was in the Chargers and Niners games. Against everybody else, even with a minimum of decent pass blocking, Rodgers mobility allowed him to do what it took to win games.

And as for "running the offense", if you mean more running plays, that isn't possible either against a good defense for the same reason - shitty O Line play.

[red]

Seems like we have a QB who focuses too much on Devante. This offense was pretty good and we all were giddy when Devante was out. Coincidence?

exactly

and a-rod nees to just run the fucking offense and throw to the open guy, not just wait for adams to get open

[Fritz]

Did you seriously see Rodgers "chasing the big play"? What I saw was no time to do anything except throw those shitty little sideways passes or run for his life - our pathetic O Line didn't allow time for anything else. Am I the only one who prefers extending the play to throwing quick often into coverage, etc.? When Adams was out, I saw just as much extending the play and throwing it down the field as with him back. That IMO is the best way to execute the offense - unless, of course, the pass blocking is absolutely non-existent, as it was in the Chargers and Niners games. Against everybody else, even with a minimum of decent pass blocking, Rodgers mobility allowed him to do what it took to win games.

And as for "running the offense", if you mean more running plays, that isn't possible either against a good defense for the same reason - shitty O Line play.

No, I saw some of those crummy two yard passes, too. I wonder why the Packers can't go over the middle like so many teams do. I was hoping Tonyan could help with that, but he didn't have any impact at all.

[texaspackerbacker]

Same answer - no time because the damn line can't block a lick.

[th87]

Was at the 49ers game and repeatedly saw the receivers get open, and Rodgers refusing to pull the trigger.

Something has happened to him, and better receivers isn't going to fix it.

[woodbuck27]

Or a sign that management doesn’t think this team is ready. After our last 2 years finishing 11-5 is beyond my wildest expectations. We are over performing our talent on this team. We need another year or two to make up for the couple of draft class clunkers TT had that should be some core year 3 to 5 players.


Rethinking my post I agree and the Cap had to be a consideration.

[woodbuck27]

exactly

and a-rod nees to just run the fucking offense and throw to the open guy, not just wait for adams to get open

Yes.

[red]

Was at the 49ers game and repeatedly saw the receivers get open, and Rodgers refusing to pull the trigger.

Something has happened to him, and better receivers isn't going to fix it.

and thats the big fear

some of us see the open receivers, others deny it happens

[pbmax]

Same answer - no time because the damn line can't block a lick.

Three 20+ yard deep throws did not connect when Rodgers had time. He has been horrible deep this year with a few exceptions. They sprung two of them wide open.

He is thinking too much, you can seem him wait and put air into the throw when he doesn’t have to.

[Zool]

Same answer - no time because the damn line can't block a lick.

Crossing routes and slants are too slow, but a deep post isn’t?

[Fritz]

Was at the 49ers game and repeatedly saw the receivers get open, and Rodgers refusing to pull the trigger.

Something has happened to him, and better receivers isn't going to fix it.

Uh oh. An eyewitness account. If Mad concurs, what will Tex do?

[Zool]

Uh oh. An eyewitness account. If Mad concurs, what will Tex do?

I think you know the answer already.

[red]

I think you know the answer already.

Call us all ignorant commies?

Or

Call and try and get the brown one deported because of the truth he saw with his own eyes is different then the alternate truth bubble that Tex lives in?

[Zool]

Call us all ignorant commies?

Or

Call and try and get the brown one deported because of the truth he saw with his own eyes is different then the alternate truth bubble that Tex lives in?

AND

[Zool]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2019/11/27/20985314/geronimo-allison-is-a-no-good-very-bad-wide-receiver?fbclid=IwAR2ERbW7RmtZUn5UOg4DCQe9K6S17rjT Rh-vBjoHDBESocYphQeA12C17fY

GMo isn't just bad....

[Cheesehead Craig]

I used to believe in GMo, but I just can't anymore.

[Radagast]

Bottom line, IMO GB needs to go "all in" at the 2020 NFL Draft and do whatever it takes to draft CeeDee Lamb (WR) from Oklahoma. A greater need than even a new Offensive Right Tackle.

[texaspackerbacker]

Uh oh. An eyewitness account. If Mad concurs, what will Tex do?

You get a lot better view on TV than at the stadium - especially in the nosebleed seats those guys apparently were.

Whiners and ingrates can whine all they want. The fact remains we are 8-3 - primarily because the GOATness of Aaron Rodgers outweighs the mediocrity of most of the rest of the team. We would be strong favorites to win 3 of the next 5, moderate favorites at home against the Bears, and hardly an underdog even against the Vikings at their place. I wonder what ya'all will piss and moan about when we win out and go at least a couple of rounds in the playoffs.

[Radagast]

You get a lot better view on TV than at the stadium - especially in the nosebleed seats those guys apparently were.

Whiners and ingrates can whine all they want. The fact remains we are 8-3 - primarily because the GOATness of Aaron Rodgers outweighs the mediocrity of most of the rest of the team. We would be strong favorites to win 3 of the next 5, moderate favorites at home against the Bears, and hardly an underdog even against the Vikings at their place. I wonder what ya'all will piss and moan about when we win out and go at least a couple of rounds in the playoffs.



GB will certainly be a playoff team this season. Most likely they will win the NFC North and finish as the 3rd or 4th seed. They stand strong to win their Wildcard game, but a win in the Divisional round would go against the odds. Still further, should a mericle occur and they make it to the NFC Championship game, IMO they would face either the Saints or the 49ers. Both of these teams are just better than GB.

On the bright side, GB will have turned around a decline from over the past few seasons and (with a good draft) be in a better position to raise the bar next year. HC LaFleur deserves lots of credit for a 1st time/1st year HC in the NFL. The experience gained this season by the entire team should serve to make them an even better team next season.

As much as I too want to see GB win it all this season, I believe that they still have a few more steps to climb first.


:pack:

[call_me_ishmael]

It is for sure time to give Kumerow a fair shake at the #2 spot. The other guys haven’t done much there.