TC OL thread

[RashanGary]

Core guys in their prime
1. Bakh
2. Lindsley
3. Turner

Young thoroughbred gonna be hard to keep off ten field
4. Jenkins

Older guys who are nearing the back end of career
5. Bulaga
6. Taylor

Versatile career backup types
7. McCray

Younger guys with unknown upside
8. Patrick
9. Light
10. De Beer
11. Pankey
12. Madison

[RashanGary]

That was the best Preseason OL performance I can remember.

I listed them in order of most likely to be healthy and contribute at a high level in 2019 based on our limited fan knowledge. We don’t get to see them in practice so the young guys may be better than we know right now. They also happen to fall into somewhat orderly groups with some valid reason to believe the young guys might be quality players. I think the groups and numbers help visualize the potential solutions to the roster dilemma in the event the young players are real.

I paid close attention to Light and DeBeer because they were our starting tackles and we just cut Spriggs. I read in JS that they thought Pankey was a good player too. Rodgers talked up Patrick. Madison is a “who the hell knows” but he was a 5th round pick.

If at least two of Light, De Beer and Pankey are legitimate nfl tackles (and the Packers should know, from seeing them against our nfl dL) then does that make Bulaga expendable right now? It would open up extending Martinez and Clark now but would lose a probable 5th round comp pick.

And/Or

If Pankey or Patrick can play guard well, does that make moving on from Taylor likely because there won’t be much drop off to Jenkins, we still have young quality depth behind Jenkins and we need the roster space to keep the younger guys?


In summary, what I’m suggesting is Bulaga and/or Taylor may be at risk for the above listed reasons, primarily more young talent than we thought we had. Once I saw the overall high quality preseason OL play, it made me think this was a possibility.

[RashanGary]

In one practice watching the WRs, I see as much as we see in a preseason game. After 5 practices watching WRs I already knew everything we saw on Thursday night 5 times over. So the Packers know more than we know 20 times over about the OL and if changes come, I do trust the decisions are made with sound reasoning. If changes don’t come, I trust that too. Gute has ice in his veins. He doesn’t hang on just to hang on. Nelson and Daniels prove that. Gutes wife better keep her ass in shape. I have no doubt he’d burry his nose in some new fur if she wasn’t performing. Heil Gute

[mraynrand]

:whaa:
Gutes wife better keep her ass in shape. I have no doubt he’d burry his nose in some new fur if she wasn’t performing.

Jiminy Christmas! :shock: :lol:

maybe get some shut-eye?

[mraynrand]

If at least two of Light, De Beer and Pankey are legitimate nfl tackles (and the Packers should know, from seeing them against our nfl dL) then does that make Bulaga expendable right now? It would open up extending Martinez and Clark now but would lose a probable 5th round comp pick.

And/Or

If Pankey or Patrick can play guard well, does that make moving on from Taylor likely because there won’t be much drop off to Jenkins, we still have young quality depth behind Jenkins and we need the roster space to keep the younger guys?

Good thinking. It's possible that Bulaga and Taylor could be surprise cuts. They said Taylor was playing because he is in competition. Bulaga may just be too unreliable to risk a roster spot. Maybe one of our contract gurus here could tell us the consequences of letting him go now or when would be the best time to get rid of him and how to do it. Hate to lose the compensatory pick - might need that fifth to pick up say a Cole Madison type player... ;-)

[RashanGary]

Still think there’s a good shot we see a surprise cut, either Bulaga or Taylor. Bulaga would be the big surprise but I would imagine we’d lock Martinez and Clark up very shortly after.

Of course, Bulaga only goes if they feel really good about two of Light, De Beer and Pankey.
Taylor could go if they really like McCray as backup center, Jenkins is just as good as Taylor and maybe another young guy shows promise.

And then, maybe we trade one.

But OL is interesting in a lot of ways. Both in that we had a really good preseason game from the backups and we might have a lot of good young talent and because of how the log jam would shake out. You don’t get rid of good 24 year old players. But 30 year old ones, that’s a little easier to do.

[RashanGary]

With light playing well, the odds of is keeping Bulaga next year are slim to none. But he will fetch a comp pick and he’s a really good pass protector and our depth is fantastic with him here, so might want to hang one one more year. AR needs all of the advantages he can get in year 1 of Lafleurs offense. A great OL with legit 6th 7th and 8th man depth gives AR a little extra time to really get comfortable with the new concepts. That’s worth something.

But how good are these young guys and how many of them are there!? It might be a dilemma.

[mraynrand]

It looks like there will be very good interior depth, but marginal outside depth.

[RashanGary]

It looks like there will be very good interior depth, but marginal outside depth.

I thought the whole preseason game 1, all the tackles looked decent. Light for sure and I think Pankey and DeBeer might be solid too. That tackle depth might be a surprise positive.

[RashanGary]

Top backups:
6. Jenkins inside
7. Light outside

8? Patrick, McCray, De Beer, Pankey, Coyle, Madison

6 guys fighting for two spots. How good are they? Is Patrick a Taylor that we don’t know about yet? Are De Beer and Pankey better than we think? Same for Coyle and Madison and Yoshi.... Word is the backup OL are making a strong case for themselves. How strong is that case and by how many of them? It could get interesting.

[pbmax]

I still haven't finished the game but I think both tackles looked almost the same shade of shaky. Light ahead of deBeers slightly. I'd bet on Bulaga sticking around.

[bobblehead]

Good thinking. It's possible that Bulaga and Taylor could be surprise cuts. They said Taylor was playing because he is in competition. Bulaga may just be too unreliable to risk a roster spot. Maybe one of our contract gurus here could tell us the consequences of letting him go now or when would be the best time to get rid of him and how to do it. Hate to lose the compensatory pick - might need that fifth to pick up say a Cole Madison type player... ;-)

The consequence of letting him go is that he is really good when he is healthy. The experimental part of me thinks we should keep him on the bench for 8 weeks and go with Turner and Jenkins at guard. Make him the break glass option. If he can only last part of a season it might as well be the playoff part.

[bobblehead]

Top backups:
6. Jenkins inside
7. Light outside

8? Patrick, McCray, De Beer, Pankey, Coyle, Madison

6 guys fighting for two spots. How good are they? Is Patrick a Taylor that we don’t know about yet? Are De Beer and Pankey better than we think? Same for Coyle and Madison and Yoshi.... Word is the backup OL are making a strong case for themselves. How strong is that case and by how many of them? It could get interesting.

If I'm betting right now its Bak, Taylor, Lindsey, Turner, Bulaga, with Jenkins, Light, Madison, Pankey. Maybe Nimjin and De Beers on PS....hard to say for sure though. Odds are De Beers and Pankey are in a battle for spot 9. I know they really want Nimrod on the practice though.

[RashanGary]

If I'm betting right now its Bak, Taylor, Lindsey, Turner, Bulaga, with Jenkins, Light, Madison, Pankey. Maybe Nimjin and De Beers on PS....hard to say for sure though. Odds are De Beers and Pankey are in a battle for spot 9. I know they really want Nimrod on the practice though.

This is why Taylor might not be here. Or maybe it’s Bulaga even. I have a feeling they might want to keep De Beer too.

[RashanGary]

Light could play guard. Pankey could. Jenkins can backup center. Madison is a guard. And with Bulaga going away next year, I don’t think they wanna lose De Beer. He seems to have developed.

[Radagast]

IMO, GB's Offensive Line Depth currently list as follows.


-------- #1 ---------- #2 ------

LT : D. Bakhtiari /// A. Light

LG : L. Taylor /// E. Jenkins

C : C. Linsley /// J. McCray

RG : B. Turner /// L. Patrick

RT : B Bulaga /// G. de Beer


Alex Light would be my first choice to start if a need arises at either the LT or RT positions.

Elgton Jenkins may beat out Lane Taylor for the LG position based upon better run blocking skills.

How many Offensive Linemen that will make the final roster, I can't say. Is there a standard "Keep" number of players?


:huh:

[run pMc]

Bulaga will not be cut. They may have guys developing, but I doubt any of them are better than him right now. Maybe Turner, but I think you want to keep him at RG and slide him to RT if/when an injury occurs.

If I'm Gute, I keep Bulaga and draft a OT next year while continuing to develop the guys they have. The interior depth is better that at OT, and I think they are a year away from fully resolving that.
Taylor would be a more likely cut than Bulaga because of depth, but even if Jenkins outplays him he's probably the top backup at G, and they even got by with him a LT for a game, so he's probably worth keeping over their 8th or 9th OL.

[mraynrand]

^^^ Good points; should be interesting.

Before being sure that Light can backup RT and Jenkins LG, I'd feel better seeing them actually play those spots. If they haven't (I may have missed it) or they don't in future PS games, it suggests either they are limited and/or the coaches want them to focus on those specific positions. See what happens there too.

[RashanGary]

IMO, GB's Offensive Line Depth currently list as follows.


-------- #1 ---------- #2 ------

LT : D. Bakhtiari /// A. Light

LG : L. Taylor /// E. Jenkins

C : C. Linsley /// J. McCray

RG : B. Turner /// L. Patrick

RT : B Bulaga /// G. de Beer


Alex Light would be my first choice to start if a need arises at either the LT or RT positions.

Elgton Jenkins may beat out Lane Taylor for the LG position based upon better run blocking skills.

How many Offensive Linemen that will make the final roster, I can't say. Is there a standard "Keep" number of players?


:huh:

Common numbers I’ve seen are 8,9,10 OL with 10 being sort of rare. I expect 9 this year. 10 is possible.

Youth, upside, versatility.... Pankey and maybe Madison are in the conversation too.

MLF was asked what the brightest spot of the joint practices was and he said the OL and DL. He said he thought we dominated the lines of scrimmage, especially the OL. And he said it was 1st string, second string and third. That’s when it first crossed my mind that some of these young guys are showing NFL stuff. If they’re as good as the Packers think, and they know more than we do, that’s what opens up the possibility of going with talented, productive and inexpensive youth over more polished, expensive and declining age.

As far as preseason games go, Houston was the cleanest OL performance I remember... ever, really. So that further adds to my confidence in what MLF said about his young OL talent. And with that, I do think there might be a rather large surprise on the horizon. Only reason it’s a surprise is because we know so little about where these young guys are at and they know so much. The reason I believe my viewpoint over the common consensus here is because I think ive listened better to the people who could shed insight and then started watching sooner to see if it were true.

[Radagast]

I see Alex Light as the "next man" should a problem occur at the LT or the RT position. He has the size, strength, and skills needed to step in and give a seamless performance if needed. In addition, I believe that Bulaga may be traded following this season (provided he can remain healthy) and Alex Light replacing him at the RT position.

Billy Turner should have a lock on the RG positions for the next 5 to 6 seasons just as Bakhtiari should have a similar lock on the LT position. Corey Linsley is also in the prime of his carrier and should have the Center position locked up for as long as he can play the position well.

My concern lies with the LG position. Lane Taylor's strength is pass blocking, but that might not be enough with new HC LaFleur's more run weighted offense. Elgton Jenkins may be the better run blocker, but could his pass blocking make for less protection for Rodgers. Can Pankey or another on the roster fit HC LaFleur's offense? I doubt it. For this reason i would not be at all surprised if GM Gutekunst and HC LaFleur were not at this moment searching for a way to trade Taylor and possibly more for a LG that better fits the new offense. Who they may want to trade for or how it might go down, I can't say. However with the ease that Mike Daniels departed, don't be shocked if such a deal takes place and soon.

[RashanGary]

I see what you’re saying radagast.

I notice fans in large have given up on listening to coach speak. Hundreds of times coaches say great things and stories get written only to find out its bullshit. So..... I have a different method. I follow the common fan in ignoring coach speak when the coach was asked about a specific player. HOWEVER, I do listen to every press conference and once in a while a coach is asked an open ended question like, what was a bright spot? and who do you think is most improved? Those two questions this offseason are the only two of meaning for me because the information was volunteered and they weren’t pressured to just say something nice to the camera. With no pressure at all, Pettine and MLF, respectively, talked about Montravius and the OL. Daniels and Spriggs being cut show they meant it, the preseason games back it up. So with that, I think I have a better than what’s common way of truely gleaning information in the offseason where most fans have given up. Me listening to every presser gives me and edge too. So I’m sticking with my opinions, while I do respect yours more than the usual fan jokes and sarcasm.

[Radagast]

I see what you’re saying radagast.

I notice fans in large have given up on listening to coach speak. Hundreds of times coaches say great things and stories get written only to find out its bullshit. So..... I have a different method. I follow the common fan in ignoring coach speak when the coach was asked about a specific player. HOWEVER, I do listen to every press conference and once in a while a coach is asked an open ended question like, what was a bright spot? and who do you think is most improved? Those two questions this offseason are the only two of meaning for me because the information was volunteered and they weren’t pressured to just say something nice to the camera. With no pressure at all, Pettine and MLF, respectively, talked about Montravius and the OL. Daniels and Spriggs being cut show they meant it, the preseason games back it up. So with that, I think I have a better than what’s common way of truely gleaning information in the offseason where most fans have given up. Me listening to every presser gives me and edge too. So I’m sticking with my opinions, while I do respect yours more than the usual fan jokes and sarcasm.

Thank You JH

I tend not to listen to the pressers or even the talking TV Heads as a rule. Instead I process the hard core articles written by the guys in the trenches. By watching the LA Rams as well as LaFleur's Tennessee Titans it is very clear that the running game is a more important part of the offense than on most teams. Next, with that knowledge I looked at the GB offensive roster to try to see if any players did/did not fit well in the new offensive system. What I've seen is GB loading up on RBs and FBs. In addition, 4 of the 5 offensive linemen for GB run block pretty well. The weak link could be with the LG position. Taylor while a fine pass blocker is a slow run blocker and pulling guards will be of great value in LaFleur's offensive system. At the same time the LG position must be relied upon to pass block for Rodgers. I don't know if Jenkins qualifies, but still I see a Taylor trade in the near future.

I'll be carefully watching the OL vs the Ravens in GB's 2nd preseason scrimmage.

[RashanGary]

Bulaga just named captain for preseason game. He’s not going anywhere. They’d be cold to do that and then trade or cut him.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Bulaga just named captain for preseason game. He’s not going anywhere. They’d be cold to do that and then trade or cut him.

Does Rodgers do the photobombing of the captain's pics in preseason or is that just regular season and playoffs?

[bobblehead]

IMO, GB's Offensive Line Depth currently list as follows.


-------- #1 ---------- #2 ------

LT : D. Bakhtiari /// A. Light

LG : L. Taylor /// E. Jenkins

C : C. Linsley /// J. McCray

RG : B. Turner /// L. Patrick

RT : B Bulaga /// G. de Beer


Alex Light would be my first choice to start if a need arises at either the LT or RT positions.

Elgton Jenkins may beat out Lane Taylor for the LG position based upon better run blocking skills.

How many Offensive Linemen that will make the final roster, I can't say. Is there a standard "Keep" number of players?


:huh:

In reality its more like this:

-------- #1 ---------- #2 ------

LT : D. Bakhtiari /// A. Light /// B. Turner

LG : L. Taylor /// E. Jenkins /// C. Madison

C : C. Linsley /// E. Jenkins /// J. McCray

RG : B. Turner /// E. Jenkins /// C. Madison

RT : B Bulaga /// B. Turner w/Jenkins playing RG /// De Beers or Pankey

Suit up 7 on game day Starters Plus Jenkins and Light. I don't think they usually suit up 8, but if they did Not sure who 8 would be.

[bobblehead]

I see Alex Light as the "next man" should a problem occur at the LT or the RT position. He has the size, strength, and skills needed to step in and give a seamless performance if needed. In addition, I believe that Bulaga may be traded following this season (provided he can remain healthy) and Alex Light replacing him at the RT position.

Billy Turner should have a lock on the RG positions for the next 5 to 6 seasons just as Bakhtiari should have a similar lock on the LT position. Corey Linsley is also in the prime of his carrier and should have the Center position locked up for as long as he can play the position well.

My concern lies with the LG position. Lane Taylor's strength is pass blocking, but that might not be enough with new HC LaFleur's more run weighted offense. Elgton Jenkins may be the better run blocker, but could his pass blocking make for less protection for Rodgers. Can Pankey or another on the roster fit HC LaFleur's offense? I doubt it. For this reason i would not be at all surprised if GM Gutekunst and HC LaFleur were not at this moment searching for a way to trade Taylor and possibly more for a LG that better fits the new offense. Who they may want to trade for or how it might go down, I can't say. However with the ease that Mike Daniels departed, don't be shocked if such a deal takes place and soon.

I view it closer to this:

Bulaga is FA after the season so he won't be traded, he will depart. Turner was signed to be our RT next year. Jenkins was drafted to be an interior backup tihs year and take over the RG next year. LG is up in the air right now, but has a lot of options to be sorted out. Taylor, Madison, McCray, Patrick are all in the conversation....as is an outside option.

I believe that is the plan, but as they say, Man plans and God laughs.

[Radagast]

I view it closer to this:

Bulaga is FA after the season so he won't be traded, he will depart. Turner was signed to be our RT next year. Jenkins was drafted to be an interior backup tihs year and take over the RG next year. LG is up in the air right now, but has a lot of options to be sorted out. Taylor, Madison, McCray, Patrick are all in the conversation....as is an outside option.

I believe that is the plan, but as they say, Man plans and God laughs.


You have a very good point there bobblehead, but if you wear a hat, people won't notice !:laugh:

Seriously though, I believe that Alex Summers is the future Right Tackle to replace Bulaga following this season. Until then he will stand ready to step in at RT or LT if the need arises.

Finally while I have your attention, I for one would greatly enjoy it if you would post a thread explaining offensive sets, passing routes, cover vs blitzing defenses, etc.. I know that you could finally teach some of members in this forum about the fundamentals of the game of football. I know that I would read, learn, and enjoy such a thread.

[RashanGary]

It’s so frustrating to watch kizer. Ugh.

[texaspackerbacker]

The O Line didn't look very good tonight - even against the lower levels of Raven D. That is a bit worrisome, because unlike various aspects of offense and much of what the D does - where they probably are holding back in these early games, what you see is probably what you get with the O Line.

Jenkins got a lot of snaps at center tonight, and he wasn't too bad. Just about everybody else, though, was mediocre on the high end and downright bad on the low end.

BTW, Radagast, who the hell is "Alex Summers"? hahahahahaha. Can you shed some Light on it?

[bobblehead]

You have a very good point there bobblehead, but if you wear a hat, people won't notice !:laugh:

Seriously though, I believe that Alex Summers is the future Right Tackle to replace Bulaga following this season. Until then he will stand ready to step in at RT or LT if the need arises.

Finally while I have your attention, I for one would greatly enjoy it if you would post a thread explaining offensive sets, passing routes, cover vs blitzing defenses, etc.. I know that you could finally teach some of members in this forum about the fundamentals of the game of football. I know that I would read, learn, and enjoy such a thread.

Pb and KY are probably much more knowledgeable than I am regarding covers and blitz sets. They have done some good threads in the past....where is KY by the way??

As for my area which is mostly OL and DL, I just don't have time to delve into like a lot of years. I meant to break down every position group this off season and I got to 3 of them and QB barely counts.

I will touch on this because I like beating my dead horse. Offenses have adapted and begun using RBs in routes and TEs flexing all over the place to eliminate predictability. MM never adjusted which is why he is gone. The offensive sets and motions in todays game as LeFlavor would say, give the illusion of complexity, but really they boil down to basics that are disguised by initial sets and motions.

[pbmax]

Aaron Wilson @AaronWilson_NFL
McClain: Texans must be grounded before they can soar

https://houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/mcclain/article/McClain-Texans-must-be-grounded-before-they-can-14308267.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20 (Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Stephanie Stradley @StephStradley
Counterpoint:
1. @fboutsiders DVOA shows that the Texans rushing game was horribly inefficient throughout the season except against JAX/TEN. Worse if you don’t include Watson running for his life.

2. Houston allowed 62 sacks. What they are trying with the run, ain’t working.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECF7QQ6XYAA_qyb?format=jpg&name=small


3. pbmax @pbmax
Running ineffectively doesn't help your passing game at all. Whatever effect your willingness to run has in slowing down the pass rush is negated by the bad down and distance situations you put yourself in. And its probably true that the D line's willingness to pay attention to the RB is controlled by the defense, especially early, than it is by your bold run often campaign.

[texaspackerbacker]

I was able to see quite a few Texan games last season. They "combatted a pass rush"/dealt with having an inadequate O Line in much the same way the Packers did and will again this season: Dashaun Watson isn't quite Aaron Rodgers in terms of being both extremely mobile and an extremely accurate passer, but he's pretty damn close. The way you deal with a pass rush when your line can't pass block worth crap is to have a QB who is ready, willing, and able to scramble, most of the time to scramble and throw.

[mraynrand]

I was able to see quite a few Texan games last season. They "combatted a pass rush"/dealt with having an inadequate O Line in much the same way the Packers did and will again this season: Dashaun Watson isn't quite Aaron Rodgers in terms of being both extremely mobile and an extremely accurate passer, but he's pretty damn close. The way you deal with a pass rush when your line can't pass block worth crap is to have a QB who is ready, willing, and able to scramble, most of the time to scramble and throw.

I suppose this might be good take if Rodgers were in his third season.

[RashanGary]

Elgton Jenkins had 25% of snaps. Lane Taylor 75% at LG. I was kind of hoping Jenkins would get a few weeks to work out and be strong. Rookie seasons wear guys down. At least he had those first two weeks. 14 games is less grueling than 16.

[bobblehead]

Jenkins will take that job in time. I have adjusted my opinion on Bulaga though. Should he make it through this season healthy I see a decent 3 year contract with us as a probability.

[RashanGary]

Jenkins will take that job in time. I have adjusted my opinion on Bulaga though. Should he make it through this season healthy I see a decent 3 year contract with us as a probability.

I’m starting to lean that way too. Cut ties with Graham, Tramon and Mercedes. Make Bulaga the resident old guy.

[bobblehead]

Aaron Wilson @AaronWilson_NFL
McClain: Texans must be grounded before they can soar

https://houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/mcclain/article/McClain-Texans-must-be-grounded-before-they-can-14308267.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20 (Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Stephanie Stradley @StephStradley
Counterpoint:
1. @fboutsiders DVOA shows that the Texans rushing game was horribly inefficient throughout the season except against JAX/TEN. Worse if you don’t include Watson running for his life.

2. Houston allowed 62 sacks. What they are trying with the run, ain’t working.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECF7QQ6XYAA_qyb?format=jpg&name=small


3. pbmax @pbmax
Running ineffectively doesn't help your passing game at all. Whatever effect your willingness to run has in slowing down the pass rush is negated by the bad down and distance situations you put yourself in. And its probably true that the D line's willingness to pay attention to the RB is controlled by the defense, especially early, than it is by your bold run often campaign.

Simply don't have the time to beat this dead horse. We are 2-0 running more efficiently and often. Our D is fresh and dominant. Play action is awesome when we use it. Running still allows you to wear down a DL so it has MANY impacts and DOES help slow a pass rush. The Rams, Pats, Saints all run effectively and often. Who played in the NFCC and AFCC last year, I forget? Who keeps drafting RBs high...not the packers I'll say that.

Notice the new metric stats geeks are suddenly using...run efficiency. Yea, AJones was more efficient than Cook was Sunday. Incidentally the Vikes, down 21-0 KEPT RUNNING. They almost ended up winning. You think fat mike would call ONE run play down 21-0?? Jones set Rodgers up with favorable down/distance all day sunday. Rodgers did NOT play a good game, but it wasn't BECAUSE we ran too much.

[bobblehead]

PS...the Texans are down to using a scat back as their primary. The problem isn't that they call too many run plays or that running doesn't help.

[mraynrand]

Simply don't have the time to beat this dead horse. We are 2-0 running more efficiently and often. Our D is fresh and dominant. Play action is awesome when we use it. Running still allows you to wear down a DL so it has MANY impacts and DOES help slow a pass rush. The Rams, Pats, Saints all run effectively and often. Who played in the NFCC and AFCC last year, I forget? Who keeps drafting RBs high...not the packers I'll say that.

Notice the new metric stats geeks are suddenly using...run efficiency. Yea, AJones was more efficient than Cook was Sunday. Incidentally the Vikes, down 21-0 KEPT RUNNING. They almost ended up winning. You think fat mike would call ONE run play down 21-0?? Jones set Rodgers up with favorable down/distance all day sunday. Rodgers did NOT play a good game, but it wasn't BECAUSE we ran too much.

Rodgers has been best out of play action. No doubt about it. PBmax pointed out in another thread that Packers haven't figured out 3rd and long in this new offense. Probably because Rodgers is struggling. I hate to break it to people, but the receivers aren't the only problem on offense and may not even been more of a problem than Rodgers himself.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers has been best out of play action. No doubt about it. PBmax pointed out in another thread that Packers haven't figured out 3rd and long in this new offense. Probably because Rodgers is struggling. I hate to break it to people, but the receivers aren't the only problem on offense and may not even been more of a problem than Rodgers himself.

Nobody has 3rd and long figured out....unless the strategy is "play the dolphins"

[gbgary]

I’m starting to lean that way too. Cut ties with Graham, Tramon and Mercedes. Make Bulaga the resident old guy.

those first 3 are gone for sure imo. bulaga's had a great start. 6th highest graded OT so far (which includes LT's) by pff.

[gbgary]

Rodgers has been best out of play action. No doubt about it. PBmax pointed out in another thread that Packers haven't figured out 3rd and long in this new offense. Probably because Rodgers is struggling. I hate to break it to people, but the receivers aren't the only problem on offense and may not even been more of a problem than Rodgers himself.

been saying for years i wish rodgers would work from under center more. aaaaand yup.

[Radagast]

Nobody has 3rd and long figured out....unless the strategy is "play the dolphins"

mraynrand doesn't need any help at being a jackass, but I do enjoy it when the hero breaths on the villain and he falls into the horse trough.

As for GB's running game, one 100+ yd running game and the pass happy cheese eaters begin chasing the bandwagon. As the new GB offense matures and more 100+ yd running games come to "pass" (ha ha ), expect plenty to be jumping on board.

GB's defense is primarily responsible for the Bears/Vikings wins. IMO, Coach Pettine deserves credit for shaping this Packers Defense with the support of GM Gutekunst supplying players. If this Packer Defense is really as good as they appear, the 2020 NFL Draft may well find GB's focus change to offensive weapons like WR, RB, and TE. :-)

[texaspackerbacker]

Radagast said correctly, we won the first two games primarily because of our defense - that and having a QB who did not overtly lose the game. It was not because of increased or more efficient run plays - although I would concede the O Line has blocked better and the run game has been better this season. The goodness of the offense, though, as was on display early in the Vikings game, was when we passed first to set up a few change of pace runs. The fact is, Jones found more room to run when they passed first and often. Then, we went back to LaFleur's "new offense", and 21-0 dropped to 21-16 - but a win is a win is a win hahahahaha.

Strangely, I haven't read anything in Packerrats about the alleged "spat" between Rodgers and LaFleur during the game (or was it discussed here and I missed seeing it?). Maybe that "spat" - if indeed it happened - was about getting away from what got us the quick 21 points.

[pbmax]

Nobody has 3rd and long figured out....unless the strategy is "play the dolphins"

Yeah, but Rodgers used to figure it out on his own four times a game. Kinda spoiled here.

[pbmax]

Simply don't have the time to beat this dead horse. We are 2-0 running more efficiently and often. Our D is fresh and dominant. Play action is awesome when we use it. Running still allows you to wear down a DL so it has MANY impacts and DOES help slow a pass rush. The Rams, Pats, Saints all run effectively and often. Who played in the NFCC and AFCC last year, I forget? Who keeps drafting RBs high...not the packers I'll say that.

Notice the new metric stats geeks are suddenly using...run efficiency. Yea, AJones was more efficient than Cook was Sunday. Incidentally the Vikes, down 21-0 KEPT RUNNING. They almost ended up winning. You think fat mike would call ONE run play down 21-0?? Jones set Rodgers up with favorable down/distance all day sunday. Rodgers did NOT play a good game, but it wasn't BECAUSE we ran too much.


Play action is great. But it works no matter whether you are running well or not. This is because on defense, anywhere form 5 to 8 players are playing run responsibility first.

McCarthy would not run much down 21-0 that is true. But down three scores you are going to pass more. You need the clock on your side. Vikings won't do it because their coach doesn't trust their QB or the passing game.

[pbmax]

PS...the Texans are down to using a scat back as their primary. The problem isn't that they call too many run plays or that running doesn't help.

You mentioned, as a good thing, metrics guys talking about run efficiency. Were the Texans being efficient by running it that much with a scatback?

[bobblehead]

Radagast said correctly, we won the first two games primarily because of our defense - that and having a QB who did not overtly lose the game. It was not because of increased or more efficient run plays - although I would concede the O Line has blocked better and the run game has been better this season. The goodness of the offense, though, as was on display early in the Vikings game, was when we passed first to set up a few change of pace runs. The fact is, Jones found more room to run when they passed first and often. Then, we went back to LaFleur's "new offense", and 21-0 dropped to 21-16 - but a win is a win is a win hahahahaha.

Strangely, I haven't read anything in Packerrats about the alleged "spat" between Rodgers and LaFleur during the game (or was it discussed here and I missed seeing it?). Maybe that "spat" - if indeed it happened - was about getting away from what got us the quick 21 points.

Really? After we got past the plays M4 scripted we went back to his offense? You make about as much sense as Maxine Waters.

[bobblehead]

You mentioned, as a good thing, metrics guys talking about run efficiency. Were the Texans being efficient by running it that much with a scatback?

I haven't looked. Do you actually know how they define run efficiency? It basically is exactly as I have said for years.

[pbmax]

I haven't looked. Do you actually know how they define run efficiency? It basically is exactly as I have said for years.

I don't remember where I got that quote. Send me a link and I will read through.

[texaspackerbacker]

Seems like we've got some Woody Hayes fans in here - run first, etc.

That quote talk got me reminded of a couple of his: "Only 3 things can happen if you throw the ball, and 2 of them are bad." And of course, the immortal, "3 yards and a cloud of dust." The trouble is, with the Packers O Line, you certainly can't count on that 3 yards consistently.

[Zool]

Ahh Tex. Nothing exists outside your world does it?

Maybe taking what the defense gives you is better than trying to impose your will. Isn't trying to unsuccessfully impose your will what got Fat Mike fired?

[texaspackerbacker]

Is that the best you can do, Zool? hahahahahaha - yeah, considering your history of posting, I guess it's above average.

[pbmax]

Now leave, or I will taunt you a second time!

[mraynrand]

Is there someone else up there I can talk to?

[Zool]

Is that the best you can do, Zool? hahahahahaha - yeah, considering your history of posting, I guess it's above average.

Considering your post history, why do I bother?

[RashanGary]

After seeing the season unfold a little, I don’t think we have any star OL. A future one, possibly and maybe even probably, but none at the moment.

Bakh, Bulaga and Lindsley are good players who are better at pass pro and below average in second level run blocking or any type of movement

Jenkins is a good player who’s young, but has a complete skillset and could be a future star

Turner is average. He’s a good run blocker, especially movement and second level and a bad pass protector

All in all, I’m not crowning this group, but they look solid. Even the backups Patrick and Light can fill in and not lose games. 5 games in, just having Rodgers and a decent OL, if the defense is good, the Packers should be in every game.


Tackles getting older. Definitely gonna wanna draft one to develop ASAP.

[call_me_ishmael]

Bakhtiari is 28 - that's not getting older in any way beyond the sense of everyone is literally getting older every second. Bakhtiari is a premier, super star LT. Bulaga is a premier, super star RT. Those things are reality and happening right now. Jenkins *might* turn out to be that, but he also might not.

[RashanGary]

I think the reason we stink at outside zone is cuz 3 of our OL struggles with movement and space.

[RashanGary]

Bakhtiari is 28 - that's not getting older in any way beyond the sense of everyone is literally getting older every second. Bakhtiari is a premier, super star LT. Bulaga is a premier, super star RT. Those things are reality and happening right now. Jenkins *might* turn out to be that, but he also might not.

I don’t agree. I watch a lot of football. Off the top, there’s a LT in Jax who’s a good pass protector and an absolute mauler. The guy in Dallas is more complete as well. I see OL every week who move better and run block better than our guys and still hold up as pass protectors. So I just don’t see it that way. I think we’ve overrated our guys.

[RashanGary]

But honestly, having four good players and an average one combined with Aaron Rodgers.... it’s enough to keep us in every game with a good defense.

Most teams don’t have 4 good OL and an average one

[call_me_ishmael]

I don’t agree. I watch a lot of football. Off the top, there’s a LT in Jax who’s a good pass protector and an absolute mauler. The guy in Dallas is more complete as well. I see OL every week who move better and run block better than our guys and still hold up as pass protectors. So I just don’t see it that way. I think we’ve overrated our guys.

I don't rate anyone; I defer to the experts - who rate Bakhtiari as a premier, super star LT via his all-pro (not pro bowl) in 2016-2018.

Bulaga's stats tell the story. Who has he been beat by?

[RashanGary]

I don't rate anyone; I defer to the experts - who rate Bakhtiari as a premier, super star LT via his all-pro (not pro bowl) in 2016-2018.

Bulaga's stats tell the story. Who has he been beat by?


He has movement limitations, especially as it relates to stretch plays, moving pockets or trying to reach second level blocks. The Packers put Bulaga in positions to succeed. It’s similar to the Eagles using Desean Jackson to run deep patterns and Jeffrey more for shallow ones. Bulaga is a good player, but not complete. Same with Bakh. I don’t need experts to tell me what my eyes can see.

[RashanGary]

The top 5 rushers right now, statistically.... 4 of them are similar (McCaffrey, Cook, Chubb and Mack) those four guys are fast, excellent balance, break tackles, can get the edge, accelerate fast, can make something happen behind the line of scrimmage because they’re so explosive, they can burst away even if knocked off their spot initially.

Fournette, regardless of what the stats say, isn’t a complete runner like the other 4. He’s fast, but slow to accelerate. If you knock him off his rhythm, it’s hard for him to get back up to speed. His a agility is lacking. He gets some big runs and has the *stats* but he’s not a complete player like the other 4.

In short, I don’t care what your stats say. I disagree.

[RashanGary]

You can bring in a corner who only knows how to play man coverage and only give him man coverage responsibilities. His PFF grade will not account for his ability to play zone defense because he did not play zone defense and he was only graded on man defense

A second player can be very good at both. He is asked to do both during the game. His grade includes both aspects.

The first player can get a 90 based on How well he was able to do one thing
The second player got an 88 playing two things equally well

What the score doesn’t show is how the first player caused the coach to call predictable coverages and his team got gashed in the run and the pass because the offense knew what was coming

The second player allowed the coach to open up the playbook, causing confusion for the QB and leading to two interceptions for his teammates


How do you account for that in a pff score?


Bakh and Bulaga are not complete. They’re graded on what they’re asked to do. The playbook is limited because there are things they do not do well. There are other players who are more complete, allowing their coaching staffs to be more varied in their approach, hence increasing probability of wins in a way that doesn’t show up in pff grades.


Pff grades are something to look at and think about, but if a person is incapable of seeing the limitations, they’re just another person who insists they’re right but is very very wrong. Thats you, Ishmael.

[RashanGary]

At the end of the day, a good set of wise eyes with enough experience to really grasp full context is better than a pff grade. Every time. There has never been an exception.

[bobblehead]

I think the reason we stink at outside zone is cuz 3 of our OL struggles with movement and space.

Those 3 spots don't operate in space in outside zone for the most part. The guards do. The Tackles literally don't look to the 2nd level playside EVER.

The reason we don't do well at outside zone is because Jones is a weave and push runner, not a plant into the seam runner. Outside zone is superior as it makes for longer runs and punishing DB's more. Cutting back against the grain puts serious pressure on one or 2 guys to beat backside blocks and make a tackle. If they miss....

Williams was proving better at the scheme than Jones before he got hurt. Jones should be able to do it, but every time he cuts back, he either misses the seam or after hitting it cuts again. Maybe williams just doesn't have the vision to make the second cut so he does it better...I don't know why, but he does.

[bobblehead]

He has movement limitations, especially as it relates to stretch plays, moving pockets or trying to reach second level blocks. The Packers put Bulaga in positions to succeed. It’s similar to the Eagles using Desean Jackson to run deep patterns and Jeffrey more for shallow ones. Bulaga is a good player, but not complete. Same with Bakh. I don’t need experts to tell me what my eyes can see.

Nobody has every tool in the box. Bulaga is generally the playside tackle in the outside zone we ran. He doesn't have to reach the second level unless the D aligns in some really funky way. Graham is such a poor blocker that it hinders a lot of attempts to pin the edge. Bulaga is a pretty good run blocker as is Bak. We hand picked 2 guards to run outside zone. Lindsey I don't watch that close, but I am betting he is decent at his assignments. Bak really only has to get in someones way on the backside, we aren't asking him to cross to the center of the field and cut off Urlacher here.

[bobblehead]

It also just occurred to me that we may have run more inside zone against Dallas because they have excellent pursuit LBs so going straight at them was the more effective attack. Some guys are just impossible to knock off course in space. If they really did adjust for that reason its impressive. I'll be paying attention monday night to see how we attack it.

[mraynrand]

It also just occurred to me that we may have run more inside zone against Dallas because they have excellent pursuit LBs so going straight at them was the more effective attack. Some guys are just impossible to knock off course in space. If they really did adjust for that reason its impressive. I'll be paying attention monday night to see how we attack it.

This is right on the money. They played to the strengths of Leeeeeroooooy Jenkins!

[pbmax]

Williams was proving better at the scheme than Jones before he got hurt. Jones should be able to do it, but every time he cuts back, he either misses the seam or after hitting it cuts again. Maybe williams just doesn't have the vision to make the second cut so he does it better...I don't know why, but he does.

If I remember, there are two aiming points for The Flower's outside zone and Jones tends to look at one and if it isn't there, he somehow hesitates his way outside. He is fast enough to get the edge often, but he is past his blocking and it can be easier to stop him there with the sideline.

[pbmax]

It also just occurred to me that we may have run more inside zone against Dallas because they have excellent pursuit LBs so going straight at them was the more effective attack. Some guys are just impossible to knock off course in space. If they really did adjust for that reason its impressive. I'll be paying attention monday night to see how we attack it.


I think there is something to this. I have seen both of their guys makes some great pursuit tackles. They were less clean in this game.

[RashanGary]

Those 3 spots don't operate in space in outside zone for the most part. The guards do. The Tackles literally don't look to the 2nd level playside EVER.

The reason we don't do well at outside zone is because Jones is a weave and push runner, not a plant into the seam runner. Outside zone is superior as it makes for longer runs and punishing DB's more. Cutting back against the grain puts serious pressure on one or 2 guys to beat backside blocks and make a tackle. If they miss....

Williams was proving better at the scheme than Jones before he got hurt. Jones should be able to do it, but every time he cuts back, he either misses the seam or after hitting it cuts again. Maybe williams just doesn't have the vision to make the second cut so he does it better...I don't know why, but he does.

Makes a lot of sense... I’m down.

My observation is that Bulaga, Linsley and Bakh are less agile moving forward or lateral than in pass sets and are a part of the reason we don’t do well in outside zone. Your points also are parts of the reason. We don’t have to agree on everything but I certainly do see your views as a huge part of it too.

[mraynrand]

Ryan Wood
‏
Verified account

@ByRyanWood
Oct 7
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LaFleur asked if it's hard for him to go against his nature as an outside-zone schemer and do more inside zone: "I think that's what coaching is all about. You find out what your guys do well, or maybe where a team is vulnerable that you're playing against, and you attack that."

[pbmax]

Ryan Wood
‏
Verified account

@ByRyanWood
Oct 7
More
LaFleur asked if it's hard for him to go against his nature as an outside-zone schemer and do more inside zone: "I think that's what coaching is all about. You find out what your guys do well, or maybe where a team is vulnerable that you're playing against, and you attack that."

My favorite quote of his so far. This is the proto-molecule of genius.

[RashanGary]

My favorite quote of his so far. This is the proto-molecule of genius.

There is an article by Wilde from “the athletic” where he has an individual sit down with Lafleur. Lafleur says he has clips from all the leagues big plays and redzone scores made for him to watch. He said, sure, it feels good to come up with something nobody has seen, but at the end of the day it’s about effectiveness so if there’s something that I can add that will work for our guys, I do it.

Humility. Not about being the hero or guru, just about winning.

Flower is growing on me.

[mraynrand]

There is an article by Wilde from “the athletic” where he has an individual sit down with Lafleur. Lafleur says he has clips from all the leagues big plays and redzone scores made for him to watch. He said, sure, it feels good to come up with something nobody has seen, but at the end of the day it’s about effectiveness so if there’s something that I can add that will work for our guys, I do it.

Humility. Not about being the hero or guru, just about winning.

Flower is growing on me.

While I greatly appreciate this post and what it adds to enlarge the knowledge base of the Packerrats community, I have to point out that it is limited in information and scope. Could you please provide several links and sources so that we can evaluate this interview as well as links to the evaluation of the physical and emotional status of LaFleur? Thank you.

[Zool]

Flower is growing on me.

Maybe take a shower?

[pbmax]

Maybe take a shower?

If I recall my Dr. Seuss, this doesn’t help.

[Bretsky]

There is an article by Wilde from “the athletic” where he has an individual sit down with Lafleur. Lafleur says he has clips from all the leagues big plays and redzone scores made for him to watch. He said, sure, it feels good to come up with something nobody has seen, but at the end of the day it’s about effectiveness so if there’s something that I can add that will work for our guys, I do it.

Humility. Not about being the hero or guru, just about winning.

Flower is growing on me.


I must admit; me as well.

He did a great job last week vs. Dallas so I'm becoming a buyer of him as a legit head coach

The next couple weeks will be telling w/o Adams. IF he can continue to be effective in scheming for Aaron JOnes and the running game to be effective and win that will go a long way

[texaspackerbacker]

I say again, success is in spite of LaFleur, not because of him.

[pbmax]

I say again, success is in spite of LaFleur, not because of him.

They did put LeeeROY Jenkins in.

[mraynrand]

I say again, success is in spite of LaFleur, not because of him.


They did put LeeeROY Jenkins in.

it's like he didn't watch the Dallas game

[pbmax]

it's like he didn't watch the Dallas game

That's right.

And Lucas PaaaaTRICK!

[bobblehead]

Ryan Wood
‏
Verified account

@ByRyanWood
Oct 7
More
LaFleur asked if it's hard for him to go against his nature as an outside-zone schemer and do more inside zone: "I think that's what coaching is all about. You find out what your guys do well, or maybe where a team is vulnerable that you're playing against, and you attack that."

So he basically hit both of my points. I feel smart. I'm sure I'll be dead wrong on something tomorrow and the feeling will pass.

[bobblehead]

I must admit; me as well.

He did a great job last week vs. Dallas so I'm becoming a buyer of him as a legit head coach

The next couple weeks will be telling w/o Adams. IF he can continue to be effective in scheming for Aaron JOnes and the running game to be effective and win that will go a long way
And more importantly getting Jones 5 catches. Remember when it was all about the YAC. WR don't do YAC like RB do.

[bobblehead]

I say again, success is in spite of LaFleur, not because of him.

I say again....you are wrong.

[bobblehead]

it's like he didn't watch the Dallas game

When did we play dallas?

[Cheesehead Craig]

So he basically hit both of my points. I feel smart. I'm sure I'll be dead wrong on something tomorrow and the feeling will pass.

We should call you Smrt Rat!

[RashanGary]

So he basically hit both of my points. I feel smart. I'm sure I'll be dead wrong on something tomorrow and the feeling will pass.

A part of what his players do well relates to the OL as well. And on NFL gamepass, Joe Thomas and Taylor Lewan are tackles and both of them talk about second level blocking. So it is in the job description of being a complete NFL offensive tackle.

But yes, you were mostly right :lol:

[bobblehead]

We should call you Smrt Rat!

Nooooo....that is the curse of taking a really foolish position really soon!!!!

Edit: Wait...shit, is my living room on fire??

[bobblehead]

A part of what his players do well relates to the OL as well. And on NFL gamepass, Joe Thomas and Taylor Lewan are tackles and both of them talk about second level blocking. So it is in the job description of being a complete NFL offensive tackle.

But yes, you were mostly right :lol:

It is, but mainly on the backside. A backside tackle that gets the second level can create some huge running plays. But there aren't many who are good at it that I can think of. After seeing SF is a top running team I may have to watch a game or 2 to see how they are approaching their ZBS.

[pbmax]

Guards need to get to the second level more often that tackles in the Packers outside zone. Hardest blocks are the center reach blocking the play side DT or nose and the backside Guard getting to a pursuing ILB.

[Radagast]

Guards need to get to the second level more often that tackles in the Packers outside zone. Hardest blocks are the center reach blocking the play side DT or nose and the backside Guard getting to a pursuing ILB.

More than any other poster, bobblehead's post make better sense as I believe that he actually has had real playbook experience. The rest are just big talk and perhaps some Pop Warner experience a "long" time ago.

I nominate bobblehead for Head Coach Rat and with that should go more status to correct/inform/and overrule the chronically wrong. He should be provided with a "veto" stamp that he could place it upon post that, in his unchallenged opinion, deserve it.

bobblehead, run for site moniter and you will get my vote.


P.S. bobblehead, I believe that in the 2020 NFL Draft that GB should look for a WR 1st and 2nd a 300 lb+ OT that can better fit the future of the Packers offense. What say you Sir ?

[pbmax]

More than any other poster, bobblehead's post make better sense as I believe that he actually has had real playbook experience. The rest are just big talk and perhaps some Pop Warner experience a "long" time ago.

I nominate bobblehead for Head Coach Rat and with that should go more status to correct/inform/and overrule the chronically wrong. He should be provided with a "veto" stamp that he could place it upon post that, in his unchallenged opinion, deserve it.

bobblehead, run for site moniter and you will get my vote.


I'll let the homecoming committee know you'd like to join.

You also couldn't go wrong with KYPack or Nutz, both of whom played and coach(ed). However, rather than sit in judgement and snipe, you could also do your own research and contribute some specifics liked you asked for a couple of days ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/05/21/differences-between-the-zone-and-power-running-schemes/

The first sequence shows bobble's backside Tackle cutting off second level pursuit. Its 22 personnel, which the Packers don't run a ton. The center also gets to the second level after a double team.

The second sequence shows both guards moving to cut down pursuit, though the backside guard has to stop because the LB is crashing through.

[mraynrand]

More than any other poster, bobblehead's post make better sense as I believe that he actually has had real playbook experience. The rest are just big talk and perhaps some Pop Warner experience a "long" time ago.

I nominate bobblehead for Head Coach Rat and with that should go more status to correct/inform/and overrule the chronically wrong. He should be provided with a "veto" stamp that he could place it upon post that, in his unchallenged opinion, deserve it.

bobblehead, run for site moniter and you will get my vote.

There are other forums that work like this, I'm sure. Send a PM to Madtown and see what his interest level is in having this place be scrubbed of posts that don't meet the criteria you demand.

[hoosier]

A 300+ lb. OT....That's a lot of off topic.

[bobblehead]

I'll let the homecoming committee know you'd like to join.

You also couldn't go wrong with KYPack or Nutz, both of whom played and coach(ed). However, rather than sit in judgement and snipe, you could also do your own research and contribute some specifics liked you asked for a couple of days ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/05/21/differences-between-the-zone-and-power-running-schemes/

The first sequence shows bobble's backside Tackle cutting off second level pursuit. Its 22 personnel, which the Packers don't run a ton. The center also gets to the second level after a double team.

The second sequence shows both guards moving to cut down pursuit, though the backside guard has to stop because the LB is crashing through.

You're also no slouch Pb, but I get you're not tooting your own horn here. KY has taught me a thing or 2, and Nutz doesn't usually get techy on design, but I know he has coached. JH is someone who genuinely tries to understand and educate himself in whatever he is discussing.

While I appreciate the call our Rad, the truth is there are a lot of knowledgeable posters on this site. Even though we snark at one another and sometimes even get bitchy, its a pretty tight knit group and the contributions of everyone is what keeps us all coming back.

My experience is playing some OL, and having a genuine interest in it. I never played a ZBS, but since Denver ate our lunch in the Owl of 1998 I have been fascinated with it.

I haven't seen us try to get the center to the 2nd level much, but the reach block is the key as stated. I think he gets a chip from the guard in some cases. Just a nightmare block to achieve.

[RashanGary]

I respect that there are people here who understand fundamentals of football more than I do. Wist, nutz, bobble... and people who have researched schemes more, Pb and people who are ridiculously detailed statisticians (Patler, Pb) Then there are a lot of people with a feel for the overall team like gbgary and mraynrand.

I’ve come a long way in understanding assignments and techniques, and also schemes and the overall evolution of football. But the reason I am now and have always been a winning gambler is because I have a feel for the people aspect of football and I’m capable of not getting lost in details but rather seeing things more simply and practically. As in, “does it work” and not sit and nit pick some minor detail of it. I also ignore stats and expert opinions because they are the mother of all losing sports betting.

I feel good about my strengths and the strengths of everyone else. I’m sure I’ve missed more than a few strengths in my list, there are a ton of knowledgeable football people here.

[bobblehead]

I wish Nutz would post more during the season, and I miss skin being a complete prick to everyone and their brother.

[RashanGary]

It is, but mainly on the backside. A backside tackle that gets the second level can create some huge running plays. But there aren't many who are good at it that I can think of. After seeing SF is a top running team I may have to watch a game or 2 to see how they are approaching their ZBS.

I watched SF earlier today. And Rams. I saw a couple screens with tackles out in space. Saw a bunch of stretch zone plays where the OT was moving quite a bit laterally on the play side (not Bulaga or Bakhs strengths)

[RashanGary]

My observation is that Bakh and Bulaga both have good feet in pass sets and mirror/anchor well in pass sets. They both do fine run blocking a guy straight in front of them and with inside zones.

They both look clumsy to me going forward or laterally.

[RashanGary]

Turner and Jenkins seem to have good balance and look agile going forward and laterally. Jenkins also looks to have high pass blocking upside. To me, Jenkins upside is our most complete OL. Bakk, Lindsley and Bulaga best pass blockers but have movement limitations.

[RashanGary]

Pff grades after 10 games

Bakhtiari 70 (starter)
Jenkins 65 (backup)
Linsley 64 (backup)
Turner 61 (backup)
Bulaga 73 (starter)

I do think this is somewhat reasonable. Football outsiders has them as top 10 overall OL. The strength is that there isn’t a glaring weakness. The weakness is that there isn’t really a true strength.

[Bretsky]

Pff grades after 10 games

Bakhtiari 70 (starter)
Jenkins 65 (backup)
Linsley 64 (backup)
Turner 61 (backup)
Bulaga 73 (starter)

I do think this is somewhat reasonable. Football outsiders has them as top 10 overall OL. The strength is that there isn’t a glaring weakness. The weakness is that there isn’t really a true strength.


Very reasonable; some random points

Back seems to be having an off year, but he's still pretty good
Bulaga.....is really good when he can stay on the field
For a draft pick, Jenkins is doing great

I think Turner and Linsley are both fine; not weak but not strong

[Upnorth]

I would like to know which way they are trending. With the implementation of the new scheme did they start at this level or are they growing into the scheme? I don't really remember hearing about oline scheme changes, but I'm certain some of the calls have changed.
I guess my point is I'm looking for reasons to believe they will get better as a group.

[pbmax]

LEEROY Jenkins is not pleased with this ranking.

[Fritz]

I would like to know which way they are trending. With the implementation of the new scheme did they start at this level or are they growing into the scheme? I don't really remember hearing about oline scheme changes, but I'm certain some of the calls have changed.
I guess my point is I'm looking for reasons to believe they will get better as a group.

I think there was some question as to whether they could adapt to the outside zone run blocking scheme; I think that was a legitimate concern, as this team struggles mightily to run outside. I think The Flower has adapted by running more inside zone, which I believe requires less mobility from the tackles.

[RashanGary]

I would like to know which way they are trending. With the implementation of the new scheme did they start at this level or are they growing into the scheme? I don't really remember hearing about oline scheme changes, but I'm certain some of the calls have changed.
I guess my point is I'm looking for reasons to believe they will get better as a group.

Overall they’re performing at top 10 level. They’re playing pretty well. There is a lot of bad OL play in the NFL

[Joemailman]

Packers directional run blocking rankings:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019

When running at opponents
left end: 20th
left tackle: 31st
nose tackle: 1st
left tackle: 12th
right end: 15th

The top grade when run blocking in middle in my opinion doesn't seem to go along with PFF's ranking of Jenkins, Linsley and Turner as backups.

[RashanGary]

I don’t think those individual grades are quite right either. I think the Packers have 5 solid OL. Most teams are worse off.

Jenkins has potential to be quite a bit more than solid though.

[Patler]

Pff grades after 10 games

Bakhtiari 70 (starter)
Jenkins 65 (backup)
Linsley 64 (backup)
Turner 61 (backup)
Bulaga 73 (starter)

I do think this is somewhat reasonable. Football outsiders has them as top 10 overall OL. The strength is that there isn’t a glaring weakness. The weakness is that there isn’t really a true strength.

Interesting. It substantiates McCarren's comment a few weeks ago that Bulaga has been consistently the best performer on the line.

Unfortunately, it also substantiates my concern from the start of the season that it was a real headscratcher as to why the Packers gave Turner such a big contract. He has been a career backup who none of his previous teams wanted to commit to as a starter.

[pbmax]

I suspect Linsley and Jenkins are having better run blocking years than the overall grades indicate. Packers have had a lot of success running inside to the left this year.