2019 Green Bay Packers @ Chicago Bears Week 1 Discussion Thread

[RashanGary]

I’m going to talk about just one aspect here in the opening post. The Bears DL vs the Packers OL. Goldman, Hicks and Mack are the strength of the Bears defense and really their whole team.

In 2018 the Packers had two starting OL coming off serious injury who were not 100% in Bulaga and Taylor. They also had McCray starting at RG. This hobbled unit was not equipped to slow down the Bears talented defensive front. The Packers won with some classic Aaron Rodgers heroics but as a fan you had to leave that game concerned about the quality of our offensive line after a bear dealt butt kicking.

2019 is a different year. Taylor and Bulaga are both 100% to start the season. Billy Turner has taken the place of Justin McCray. And the Packers offense should be far more balanced than a year ago.

I expect to see the Packers stymie the Bears pass rush, including Mack. Bulaga is at 100%. He’s at the end of his prime, but still the prime of his career. Lead by Bulaga, the Packers OL is gonna show up to Soldier field and shut the Bears the fuck up! Packers W needless to say. And I’m about ready to see AR start to get rid of the ball quicker, but if there is a game to leave it all on the field this is it. OL hold up. AR do AR shit! Victory!

[Radagast]

To begin with it is a very good thing that GB's 1st team OL is a healthy one and except for Billy Turner have valuable experience playing together. Turner should fit right in. The concern is with the 2nd team backups. I don't wish for any unwanted injuries, but it is most rare for any team to not suffer one or more OL problems in a season.

Next, GB's new offensive system will utilize more running plays. I don't believe that inside the Tackle's runs will be a problem, but outside sweeps and screens may be. Bakhtiari's left side may well be fine but Bulaga's right side may prove to be a weak side to run at.

How quickly AR throws is not based upon OL protection. Yes OL protection is very important, but when Rodgers throws the ball, is directly related on to receivers getting open. Rodgers low interception record shows that he is not reckless about throwing passes. He will throw it away than rather risk a turnover. Rodgers would prefer to live in the pocket until a receiver gets open, but even the very best OLs can only stand off defenses for a max. of 4 seconds. Beyond that Rodgers or any other NFL QB will be found scrambling or running with the ball. A "quick release" always depends receivers getting open and not (generally) upon OL pass protection.

Last, this year GB has 3 Full Backs in camp. Over the last few seasons the FB has declined as an integral part of GB's offense. LaFleur's offensive system uses more plays where the FB is either a run blocker, or a pass blocker, or as rusher/receiver. I applaud it as it provides, if you will, a 6th Offensive pass/run blocker on many plays. In addition, defenses will have to respect the FB as a real treat and cover him with a player.



:pack:

[RashanGary]

You really do know it all, radagast. Thanks for the lesson :lol:

[Radagast]

You really do know it all, radagast. Thanks for the lesson :lol:

Now cut that out, as Jack Benny used to say. The lesson here is to not conveniently omit facts that don't fit into your argument. Those facts, as a rule will show up in the rebuttal reply.

[RashanGary]

Now cut that out, as Jack Benny used to say. The lesson here is to not conveniently omit facts that don't fit into your argument. Those facts, as a rule will show up in the rebuttal reply.

I had a very narrow opening topic, not a complete essay on possible outcomes of the game. I see our healthy, experienced OL matching up well with the greatest strength on their team. Bulaga is a key player but at his best (and he should be) Bulaga is pretty darn good so I expect him to lead the way and help open up the passing game for AR.

I left it completely open to add all sorts of other ideas and topics. That’s why I said I’m opening up with just one key point. I don’t even have the mental energy to try to summarize the whole game with any level of thoroughness that I feel confident in. You could have just added on without the snarky undertones that I missed all sorts of stuff, which I already went in saying I’m just opening the door so that should have been understood out of the gate.

[RashanGary]

And really, as a general rule, we all just bounce ideas around for the most part. So and so player looks improved, so and so scheme seemed to work this week, might it work again in other situations. There is a general understanding among pretty much every long term poster here that football is fluid and constantly evolving so we’re always sort of observing the change and sort of trying to understand it sooner than later. But it’s all with an open mind and we don’t lecture each other on how any one of us knows it all because universally we all know we don’t so that’s why we hardly fight about it.

[bobblehead]

Our OL can handle them as long as M4 sticks to the plan. Run, wear down, quick releases, then attack downfield if you manage to tighten them up.

Last year Bulaga barely practiced and we sent him out to block Mack. We know how that ended. I have read a few times that M4 runs a more physical practice and more 11 on 11 so I HOPE they are more prepared out of the gate...of course we have no clue since the preseason was used for the sole purpose of watching guys competing for jobs/roster spots.

[RashanGary]

Our OL can handle them as long as M4 sticks to the plan. Run, wear down, quick releases, then attack downfield if you manage to tighten them up.

Last year Bulaga barely practiced and we sent him out to block Mack. We know how that ended. I have read a few times that M4 runs a more physical practice and more 11 on 11 so I HOPE they are more prepared out of the gate...of course we have no clue since the preseason was used for the sole purpose of watching guys competing for jobs/roster spots.

Bulaga was barely ready after a torn ACL. That’s why he struggled.

[RashanGary]

Our OL can handle them as long as M4 sticks to the plan. Run, wear down, quick releases, then attack downfield if you manage to tighten them up.

Last year Bulaga barely practiced and we sent him out to block Mack. We know how that ended. I have read a few times that M4 runs a more physical practice and more 11 on 11 so I HOPE they are more prepared out of the gate...of course we have no clue since the preseason was used for the sole purpose of watching guys competing for jobs/roster spots.

It’s absolutely shocking to me that a self proclaimed football genius such as yourself attributes all of Bulagas early season struggles to him not practicing enough last year and completely ignore the reason him not practicing is because he was 9 months removed from ACL surgery. Do you seriously not understand why Bulaga was brought back on that time table last year? Every time you bring this up it just baffles me that you have no understanding of ACL injuries after following football for all of these years. Seriously, what did you expect?

[call_me_ishmael]

Packers win 31 - 27. Good, entertaining game to start the season.

[Radagast]

Packers win 31 - 27. Good, entertaining game to start the season.

A total of 58 points? That seems to me to be a bit excessive. It suggest both offenses have a good game with the difference coming from turnovers.


I see the first half as being dominated by the two Defenses. Field Goals will be traded and either the Bears or the Packers benefit from a turnover that results in a TD scoring mini-drive. 10 to 3 at halftime, the lead going to ...

Both teams will make changes at the half and both Offenses score TDs with their 1st second half drives. With the score now 17 to 10, both teams stall on their next two drives. Then early in the 4th qtr. the trailing team scores on a big deep ball pass play and the score is knotted at 17 each.

In the final 2 minutes, Aaron Rodgers leads the Packers to the Bears 23 yd. line where Mason Crosby kicks a last minute 4th down Field Goal. 20 to 17.
The Bears get the ball back with 42 seconds left in the game. They get the ball on their 25 yd line with one timeout left. As much as they try, they fail to get into FG range and time runs out.

Final Score

Packers 20
Bears 17

[bobblehead]

Bulaga was barely ready after a torn ACL. That’s why he struggled.

So why would you ask him to block Mack one on one? I put that squarely on fat Mike.

[bobblehead]

It’s absolutely shocking to me that a self proclaimed football genius such as yourself attributes all of Bulagas early season struggles to him not practicing enough last year and completely ignore the reason him not practicing is because he was 9 months removed from ACL surgery. Do you seriously not understand why Bulaga was brought back on that time table last year? Every time you bring this up it just baffles me that you have no understanding of ACL injuries after following football for all of these years. Seriously, what did you expect?

a) I don't proclaim myself to be a football genius.
2) I acknowledge he was rusty and OUT OF PRACTICE due to being 9 months removed. What I seriously expected was for our dumb ass coach to also understand how an ACL injury works and NOT ask the guy recovering from it to block Mack solo in his first actual action in forever.
finally) You inferred a lot into my post that I never said or really implied, although my point about guys who ARE healthy enough not getting full speed 100% competitive action stands.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

FYI: I called dibs on the official week 1 game day thread.

Don’t wanna give ThunderDan the opportunity to start the game day thread for 19 straight weeks. Dan thinks he’s so much better than us all cos he has season tickets.

[pbmax]

^ You remind me of a Journey/REO Speedwagon stage of a public career. All the hits, at all the county fairs and festivals. Performed skillfully, if a little bloodlessly.

You should release an album of American Standards instead like Rod Stewart or Gloria Estefan. Or even just a cover album like David Byrne or Peter Gabriel. Or Johnny Cash and release something that superficially that seems at odds with your oeuvre.

[run pMc]

IIRC M3 didn't like giving the OL help on principle, but he would if necessary. I doubt it occurred to him with Bulaga being a solid vet, etc.

ACL injuries generally take 2 years to fully recover from, although I've heard with OL it's less noticeable than a RB, WR, or CB where speed and cutting are more important. Mack is a load for anybody, whether they are coming off an injury or not, so I'm not sure if that's the barometer you want to use for Bulaga. For the game itself, everyone noticed how GB sliced up the Bears D in the 2nd half when Rodgers was quick passing out of shotgun more. They will need to do that, and yes...commit to running the ball sometimes (even though I think it will be very tough sledding to run on CHI).

[ThunderDan]

FYI: I called dibs on the official week 1 game day thread.

Don’t wanna give ThunderDan the opportunity to start the game day thread for 19 straight weeks. Dan thinks he’s so much better than us all cos he has season tickets.

There are no dibs on the game day thread. Please feel free to start the game day thread for week 1 if you want. I will not start the thread.

[Fritz]

IIRC M3 didn't like giving the OL help on principle, but he would if necessary. I doubt it occurred to him with Bulaga being a solid vet, etc.

ACL injuries generally take 2 years to fully recover from, although I've heard with OL it's less noticeable than a RB, WR, or CB where speed and cutting are more important. Mack is a load for anybody, whether they are coming off an injury or not, so I'm not sure if that's the barometer you want to use for Bulaga. For the game itself, everyone noticed how GB sliced up the Bears D in the 2nd half when Rodgers was quick passing out of shotgun more. They will need to do that, and yes...commit to running the ball sometimes (even though I think it will be very tough sledding to run on CHI).


I was talking in another thread about how interesting I think this season will be, in large part because we'll get to see how a different head coach calls plays, makes challenges, or think about certain issues - such as giving offensive linemen help. I wonder if LeFleur will offer more help than MM did?

Get in there, Jimmy Graham, and block your ass off!

[mraynrand]

Because we've seen nothing in the preseason, I can only guess at the first game. My suspicion is that with a new offense against a stronger defense, the Packers will lose, probably horribly on a last second FG by Sam Ficken, and Crosby will miss a gimme. If they win, it will be with their defense and maybe a little Rodgers magic late.

[Fritz]

Like you, I am resigned to the idea that whichever kicker the Packers cut will beat the Packers with a last-second field goal, or that whichever kicker the Packers keep will miss a last-second gimme.

[pbmax]

Like you, I am resigned to the idea that whichever kicker the Packers cut will beat the Packers with a last-second field goal, or that whichever kicker the Packers keep will miss a last-second gimme.

You are underestimating Matt Nagy's ability to overanalyze this and doom his own career. He'll probably have the former Packers kicker practice only from 43 yards :lol:

[Fritz]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Gutekunst keeps both kickers on the roster for the first week, just to deny the Bears the opportunity to deal Packer fans a death blow with a former Packer kicker?

[pbmax]

Let's face it, there are only three scenarios with the Packer having the ball for their first meaningful drive and I am ready for all of them:

1. Run-run-pass: JFC, we just had 10 seasons of opening games like this! Can we just skip to the part where they throw on every down?

2. Run-pass-pass: So much for giving the run game a chance. What a bunch of bull****! Murphy is an idiot for believing this! I think Bulaga hurt himself huddling up pregame.

3. Play action pass - run - pass: Is innovation that yields a punt really innovation at all? I'm going to give it two weeks. I mean quarters.

[pbmax]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Gutekunst keeps both kickers on the roster for the first week, just to deny the Bears the opportunity to deal Packer fans a death blow with a former Packer kicker?

The only scenario that supports keeping two specialists.

But if Nagy and whoever the GM is sign Giorgio Tavecchio, Packers are done for no matter what.

[CaptainKickass]

Let's face it, there are only three scenarios with the Packer having the ball for their first meaningful drive and I am ready for all of them:

1. Run-run-pass: JFC, we just had 10 seasons of opening games like this! Can we just skip to the part where they throw on every down?

2. Run-pass-pass: So much for giving the run game a chance. What a bunch of bull****! Murphy is an idiot for believing this! I think Bulaga hurt himself huddling up pregame.

3. Play action pass - run - pass: Is innovation that yields a punt really innovation at all? I'm going to give it two weeks. I mean quarters.


You could just add or start a new thread with this as the poll. See who gets it right on the opening drive.

[Fritz]

The right answer is that if the Packers go three-and-out, you complain about the playcalling, no matter which plays were called in whatever order.

[RashanGary]

Is the Packers first offensive play of the regular season

A. An outsize zone run
B. Anything else

[texaspackerbacker]

B ------ Fake A, throw bomb to Valdez-Scantling

[pbmax]

I actually agree, play action on outside zone.

[RashanGary]

Just run an outside zone run. If it’s supposed to be what we do best, see if you can get 4 even if they know it’s coming.

[pbmax]

@ArthurArkush
Nagy confirms Eddy Pineiro will be the #Bears kicker Thurs. vs. #Packers.

[gbgary]

B...the slant returns to the playbook.

[RashanGary]

Nagy press conference... sounded like a good dude and smart dude. Lafleur the same. This is two driven young coaches with quality defensive coordinators and a bunch of good players. Gonna be a fight for sure.

[Joemailman]

Bears favored by 3. Over/under 46.

[RashanGary]

BEARS OFFENSE VS PACKERS DEFENSE

Greatest strength: Offensive line. Big, experienced group in their second year running coach Nagy's offense. They don't have a true weak link and have a couple really good players.

Running back: They have a couple smaller guys and a rookie who's trying to adapt to an offense where every starter is in their second year. I expect to see more Cohen than anyone else on week one of the NFL season due to him being so much more up to speed with the rest of the veteran unit. By seasons end, this could be very different.

Tight End: Trey Burton. I'm definitely not going to spend any time knocking him. We'll be incredibly happy if Tonyan has the career Burton has had so far. He's short, smallish, but fast. There is no way Chicago is feeling good about running strong side against any of the Packers OLBs other than Fackrell who's not going to be playing much on 1st or 2nd down. He's a speed mismatch against any of our OLBs, but his lack of height makes him a fairly good matchup for any of our secondary players or Greene in his hybrid role.

WR: Tallest guy who's gonna play much is Robinson at 6'2". All three guys, plus the TE are familiar with Nagy's offense as they're in their second year. I'm not overly impressed with any of them, but Robinson is their best player and kind of a poor mans Davante. The other two are small guys. Chicago's run game is limited by the one dimensional smallish skill players. I expect more runs to be weakside with Robinson isolated on that side. That puts their best blockers in position to succeed in the run game. In the pass game, I expect them to try to pick apart the interior of our defense. Amos is new to the defense. Savage is a rookie. Greene is unproven. Chicago has speed and experience at the boundary skill positions so I do expect them to test the interior of our defense. Inside, Martinez, Tramon, Greene and Amos are going to have to come together and help the rookie along. Communication and preparation are going to be key. I expect Alexander and King to lock down the outside. And I do think there is enough veteran experience inside to set the defense and be ready to be attacked inside.

QB: Trubisky is in a very important year in his development. Second year with Nagy. His entire starting offense is in their second year together. Nagy should be able to put more on Trubiskys plate as far as subtlties and adjustments. I HOPE that Nagy and Trubisky get a little too slick and try to show how smart they are instead of just playing sound football. We have a chance to capitalize on some of their own self errors as they try to show how far they've come and push that envelope too far. Worst case, they balance it perfectly and pick us apart. But I don't expect our fortified pass rush and speed on the outside to make it so easy on them.

SUMMARY: The Packers defense and the Bears offense are both in their second years. The weak spot of the Packers defense on game one is the newness of Amos, the rookie status of Savage and the unproven quality of Raven Greene at hybrid LB. The Bears look to run weakside, away from their small skill players and to attack the potential soft spots in our pass defense. Blake Martinez getting guys lined up and communicating checks is going to be absolutely key. Our DL and edge players playing sound football, particularly on the weak side of their offense is going to be another key. I see the Packers defense having an edge against the Bears one dimensional skill players and I think they have just enough experience in just enough of the right places to slow down and often times stop the Bears offense.

EDGE GOES TO PACKERS DEFENSE based on talent up front, speed on the outside and just enough experience inside for a guy like Trubisky to not truly be a threat to expose. Great QBs will be a much harder matchup for the Packers going forward unless the interior pass defense stays healthy and really gels together. Luckily thats not our matchup on week 1. It's Trubisky. Then Cousins. A good start.

[RashanGary]

PACKERS OFFENSE VS BEARS DEFENSE

Greatest Strength: Packers QB and experience along the offensive line. Lafleur couldn't ask for a more savvy, experienced bunch up front and at QB to counter whatever the Bears might dream up to confuse or attack. No team in the league has more experience in these two key areas of adjusting to defenses than the Green Bay Packers. I would just say Aaron Rodgers, but its compounded when he has that veteran OL to play with.

Offensive Line: I do think the Packers match up well against that talented defensive front of the Chicago Bears. As good as Hicks, Goldman and Mack are, the Packers OL, quite frankly, when healthy matches up as well as any line in the NFL, particularly in the pass game. If there is a place to attack the Bears in the run game, the edge is the place to do it. Goldman and Hicks are so stout inside, its helpful to run away from that part of their defense. Thats what we do best. So I do like our OL matching up against their defensive front.

Running back: On week 1, the Packers will never look better here. Aaron Jones is really our only true "guy" but it is week 1 and he is our guy and he's playing healthy. The Bears defense is incredibly stout, especially inside, but it will help a lot to get those big guys moving and the cut back and force them to use athleticism more than what they want to use vs brute strength (what they want to do.) The Bears have talent, experience and speed all over the back end of their defense so I absolutely do not expect a lot of huge runs, but some consistent solid runs outside should be doable to keep the chains moving.

Tight end/FB: Jimmy Graham and Danny Vitale. I'm a bigger fan than most here. Jimmy is big, fast, experienced and healthy. Vitale is a weapon in the pass game and a better blocker than the typical running back. These two guys can hold up in the run game and really compliment the pass game. With so much experience and speed and talent in the back end of the Bears defense, I do think the Packers offense with its balance and with the way the running plays and passing plays all look alike is a good matchup against an experienced defense that would otherwise diagnose and attack very quickly.

WR: Lead by Davante Adams. MVS is in his second year with Rodgers. Allison has always been a reliable target for Aaron Rodgers. All three of our top guys can at least get in the way as blockers with decent size and length. MVS takes the top off with his speed. Allisons quickness and savvy inside is a good matchup for those choice routes inside. Adams is Adams. I do think the Bears defense matches up well with any passing attack so I don't think this is necessarily a win for the Packers.

QB: Aaron Rodgers is the key to the Packers offense; both in terms of being the field general that pushes pace and cohesion and just being a dominant NFL QB. The Bears are a great defensive unit. Rodgers is going to have to be patient and determined and willing to keep working the game plan even when its only 3 or 4 yards and a cloud of dust. Big plays against Fuller and Amukamara and Eddie Jackson aren't just going to be given to him so setting a good pace and helping to keep a good rhythm for his guys so there isn't much confusion or presnap penalties is going to be key. A guy like Brady whos so patient and willing to take whats given is the idea matchup against the Bears defense. Lets hope AR shows some maturity and patience because I do believe that is what its going to take.

SUMMARY: I don't give an edge to either team here. I respect the hell out of the completeness of the Bears defense. They have playmakers on all levels and no real weak spots. But with Aaron Rodgers, a healthy Aaron Jones, Jimmy Graham and the weapons Aaron is so comfortable working with, on top of the experienced, quality OL, I do see the Packers as being able to enforce a death by a thousand paper cuts sort of cruel persistence that will eventually open up an MVS deep ball to put the game away.

[RashanGary]

Best Bet:

Take the Packers to win outright at +145. The Bears are probably the slight favorite, but at +145 the Packers are a good bet.

[pbmax]

King is back to practicing.

https://twitter.com/ReinerOlivia/status/1168258782494941184

[pbmax]

A Wednesday practice day (no pads)

@ByRyanWood
Five #Packers did not practice Sunday, which was the team’s usual Wednesday, non-padded practice with opener at Chicago Bears looming Thursday:

WR Darrius Shepherd
CB Ka’dar Hollman
ILB Janes Crawford
TE Jace Sternberger
DL Fadol Brown

[Joemailman]

King is back to practicing.

https://twitter.com/ReinerOlivia/status/1168258782494941184

https://s3.amazonaws.com/mychurchwebsite/images/c3251/sermon_mz8lvd.jpg

[RashanGary]

Gute says packers haven’t been playing as much with two ILBs the last year or two. So that is starting to look like a non issue, at least as long as Blake is healthy.

Expect more:

3-3-5 big nickel with Greene in traditional base situations
3-3-5 nickel with Tramon in the usual nickel situations
2-3-6 dime with Tramon and Greene in most dime situations

[Joemailman]

Gute says packers haven’t been playing as much with two ILBs the last year or two. So that is starting to look like a non issue, at least as long as Blake is healthy.

Expect more:

3-3-5 big nickel with Greene
3-3-5 nickel with Tramon
2-3-6 dime with Tramon and Greene

That's true. Raven Greene will probably get more snaps Thursday than Summers.

[RashanGary]

A lot of teams running with their second ILB down around 220lbs now anyway. Burnett was playing it for a while with Capers defense. With rules favoring pass offense, the ILB role has evolved quite a bit where Greene is kind of a common piece in that new hybrid spot.

[RashanGary]

That's true. Raven Greene will probably get more snaps Thursday than Summers.


Way more. Ill be surprised if Summers plays more than 10 snaps on defense. It’s more likely that he won’t play at all.

[wist43]

Gute says packers haven’t been playing as much with two ILBs the last year or two. So that is starting to look like a non issue, at least as long as Blake is healthy.

Expect more:

3-3-5 big nickel with Greene in traditional base situations
3-3-5 nickel with Tramon in the usual nickel situations
2-3-6 dime with Tramon and Greene in most dime situations

I concur.

[Joemailman]

Rob Demovsky
ESPN Staff Writer
Packers CB Kevin King said he plans to play Thursday against the Bears -- "no doubt," he said -- which would be the first step toward his season goal: "To play all 19 games and win on Feb. 2." King practiced today for the first time since his Aug. 2 right hamstring injury. It's not the same leg that ended his 2018 season with a hamstring injury. King, the Packers' top pick in 2017, has only played 15 of a possible 32 games in his career


Rob Demovsky
ESPN Staff Writer
TE Jimmy Graham also was back on the field for the first time since he suffered a hand/finger injury in camp. Looked like he had two fingers on right hand taped together..

[yetisnowman]

Hate to say it, but I fear King will be riddled with injuries his entire career. His slight frame and the way he runs and throws his body around just doesn't lend itself to staying healthy. Kind of reminds me of RG3 in a way. Great athlete, but with an awkward, lanky style.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Hate to say it, but I fear King will be riddled with injuries his entire career. His slight frame and the way he runs and throws his body around just doesn't lend itself to staying healthy. Kind of reminds me of RG3 in a way. Great athlete, but with an awkward, lanky style.

Word. They oughta move King to WR. He ain't Dick Sherman.

I'll take King getting injured in the 2nd quarter at -145.

[pbmax]

Saving this for later. Don't ask where I got it.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDeDQKJXoAI4htG?format=jpg&name=small

[Tony Oday]

Bears lose Bigly, 31-10 Packers.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Saving this for later. Don't ask where I got it.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDeDQKJXoAI4htG?format=jpg&name=small

Spoilers alert!


While the coward king of incest hide inside an underground bunker, Tyrion Lannister successfully led the defense of King's Landing against the fleet of Stannis Baratheon. The Half-man used wildfires.

Tyrion would eventually betray the virtuous Mother of Dragons, so fuck the Imp!

[bobblehead]

Hate to say it, but I fear King will be riddled with injuries his entire career. His slight frame and the way he runs and throws his body around just doesn't lend itself to staying healthy. Kind of reminds me of RG3 in a way. Great athlete, but with an awkward, lanky style.

Only 3 things are certain, death, taxes and King getting hurt!

[wist43]

Word. They oughta move King to WR. He ain't Dick Sherman.

I'll take King getting injured in the 2nd quarter at -145.

Nah, don't think he makes it out of the first quarter. Not counting on him at all this year.

[wist43]

Bears lose Bigly, 31-10 Packers.

You're not supposed to drink the bong water ;)

[Bretsky]

watched the Packers Bear game from last year today; the Packers were dam lucky to win that game. Down 20-3 in the 3rd and on their game winning drive Fuller drops a pick that hits him practically in the chest.

I don't see Green Bay winning Thursday night

[Bretsky]

King, for what it's worth, is a really good player when healthy

[Joemailman]

https://usatpackerswire.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/screen-shot-2019-09-02-at-11.30.55-pm.png?w=1000

[texaspackerbacker]

King ought to be good if he is healthy, but as I recall, his coverage ability wasn't all that great - plenty of physical talent, but instincts nothing special. It he's every gonna be great, he not only needs good luck with lack of injuries but also some experience and development.

[texaspackerbacker]

I was at last year's game. It was NOT a case of a lucky comeback. Rather, the damned Bears had everything fall their way early on - obviously including the Rodgers injury. The Packers came back due to guts, grit, and just plain being the better team.

This year, the Packers are extremely much better defensively; The Bears are at least a little bit worse defensively; The Packers hopefully will have a healthy GOAT QB for all four quarters as well as better receivers and at least as good a running game. The Bears at best will be the same offensively.

How some people can predict doom and gloom is beyond me. I see it as a comfortable Packers win.

I wasn't gonna predict scores this season, but what the hell ...... Packers 34 Bears 16

[pbmax]

watched the Packers Bear game from last year today; the Packers were dam lucky to win that game. Down 20-3 in the 3rd and on their game winning drive Fuller drops a pick that hits him practically in the chest.

I don't see Green Bay winning Thursday night

Yeah, but this year its the Bears who won't know the Packers offense in the first half. Dropped interceptions have given Brady 3 Super Bowls, so I have no problem accepting them as fate.

[call_me_ishmael]

King, for what it's worth, is a really good player when healthy

I want to believe but I'm not totally convinced we've seen enough of him to have an opinion on this either way.

[call_me_ishmael]

Mah knee.

[RashanGary]

The Bears and Patriots shut out the Rams. Let’s hope AR and Lafleur can come up with answers the Rams didn’t have for quarters coverages.

[mraynrand]

Yeah, but this year its the Bears who won't know the Packers offense in the first half.

No, that's just what they'll be expecting....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-X8iW2C_tS1M/U6yEpfzpS0I/AAAAAAAADS8/QqSN4eylCmk/s1600/airplane.jpg

[bobblehead]

I want to believe but I'm not totally convinced we've seen enough of him to have an opinion on this either way.

I've seen plenty. If he can stay on the field, he is right there with Jaire. Good combo as one covers shifty slots and the other covers big beasts.

[RashanGary]

This is a very intriguing matchup. Fangios Bears found a way to rattle McVays rhythm offense and absolutely smother them. Patricia’s Lions followed suit. Belichicks Patriots finished the burial using the same concepts.

Now.... the Packers personnel is different, starting at QB where AR is far better at adjustments presnap. Lafleurs offense is different, starting with preferring more TEs and FBs. But the Packers rhythm and marriage between run and pass plays is the same as the Rams.

Will Chicago come up with a plan that knocks Lafleur out of his rhythm the way they did to McVay? Does Aaron Rodgers experience and the whole offenses experience with presnap adjustments give the Packers an edge the Rams never had?

Who knows what’s going to happen, but it’s interesting, no doubt.

[RashanGary]

The biggest difference between the Packers and Rams is, I think the Packers want to play more 21 and 12 personnel under Lafleur. Starting in Chicago and continuing with the Lions and Patriots, all three teams were able to coax the Rams out of run plays and into passes by showing edge setting pre snap looks. Knowing the Rams would pass into such looks, they pinned their ears back and attacked the pass. Play actions take time to develop. Pass rushers coming hot like that, it defeats the whole purpose of play action, which is to slow the rush.

At the end of the day, it’s two different teams. But let’s hope the Packers offense is advanced enough to not have their plays dictated to them by disguised looks and totally shut down like the Rams have been.

[mraynrand]

The biggest difference between the Packers and Rams is, I think the Packers want to play more 21 and 12 personnel under Lafleur. Starting in Chicago and continuing with the Lions and Patriots, all three teams were able to coax the Rams out of run plays and into passes by showing edge setting pre snap looks. Knowing the Rams would pass into such looks, they pinned their ears back and attacked the pass. Play actions take time to develop. Pass rushers coming hot like that, it defeats the whole purpose of play action, which is to slow the rush.

At the end of the day, it’s two different teams. But let’s hope the Packers offense is advanced enough to not have their plays dictated to them by disguised looks and totally shut down like the Rams have been.

So maybe the Bears will just figure "Who cares about the run, we know these guys are a pass crazy team. Play safe on the back end with quarters and just let the guys up front go get Rodgers. We'll take some runs against us in exchange for pressure and sacks."

[pbmax]

I think the Packers want to play more 21 and 12 personnel under Lafleur.

I too think M4 will look more like Shanny Jr. than McVay. But its going to take a while to shake out because unless he hurt his head when he tore his achilles, M4 is going to split Graham away from the O line. Even if they are bunched tight. What they want is the D to react to a FB or TE on the field with Graham with base personnel to get Graham on a LB.

If the D stays with a safety or nickel CB on Graham, then you split the RB wide and get a LB on someone. Then you throw to that someone.

However, I don't think Graham will actually be playing like a TE and smart teams will treat him like a WR. So a Packers 12 or 21 personnel is really an 11 personnel package from the defenses standpoint.



by showing edge setting pre snap looks

What does this mean?

[RashanGary]

So maybe the Bears will just figure "Who cares about the run, we know these guys are a pass crazy team. Play safe on the back end with quarters and just let the guys up front go get Rodgers. We'll take some runs against us in exchange for pressure and sacks."

Some version of that. Which is my main frustration with the constant audible offenses. Defenses get paid too. You end up audibling right into traps. Which is why i do like pace/execution/motion style offenses vs audible/adjustment style offenses.

The Rams were an audible/adjustment version of the shanny offense. Kind of concerning because that’s how they played themselves right into defensive traps. And that’s the similar style of stamp AR wants to put on the offense. I do worry AR will play himself into traps and this offense, with under center / play action being the primary pass plays, eek, he’s not gonna be able to get away from the rush. He’ll learn real quick or be injured real quick if he doesn’t figure that out fast.

[RashanGary]

If you’re gonna be a QB lead audible/adjustment offense, it seems safer to do it from the gun like Peyton and AR always did. If you’re gonna be a run/pass execution offense under center with play action, you better commit to that damn run or your QB will he dead.

[RashanGary]

McCarthy/Rodgers offense in summary

Audible/Adjustment based offense from gun
Easy for defense to dictate pass plays by showing run defense
Rodgers changes play to pass play
Defense was lying. Actually playing pass defense
Rodgers surprised, holds ball
Rodgers/receivers highly in tune to post snap adjustments
Magic happens or sacks

I don’t like the offense at all because the defense chooses pass plays for us. Then AR is stuck holding the ball like a retard and he gets all the glory when he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off and pulls something out of his ass.

I prefer the Brady/Aikman sort of team oriented/pace oriented/run the ball and get rid of it quick execution style offense.

[RashanGary]

If Rodgers wants to pass the ball every time a defense tricks him into pass plays, he’s not gonna have so much fun cuz now he’s under center doing play action. Uh oh, buddy.

[Fritz]

If you’re gonna be a QB lead audible/adjustment offense, it seems safer to do it from the gun like Peyton and AR always did. If you’re gonna be a run/pass execution offense under center with play action, you better commit to that damn run or your QB will he dead.


I think this is what many of us are holding our collective breath about. When the Bears go up 10 -0 will LeFleur keep calling the run?

After three or four losses of a yard or two on outside zone runs, will Matty TheFlower still call running plays? Will Rodgers execute them? (I expect a lot of trouble trying to execute this zone-blocking scheme, and envision lots of moments in which the running back has the ball but no place to go.)

When Aaron Jones gets hurt, will The Flower call Jamaal Williams's number?

Will they actually run the ball this year?

[pbmax]

If Rodgers wants to pass the ball every time a defense tricks him into pass plays, he’s not gonna have so much fun cuz now he’s under center doing play action. Uh oh, buddy.

You are underestimating how difficult it is to play the pass from box stuffing run looks. This should be obvious as teams don't hesitate to put the current matching personnel out on the field.

We are talking mainly safety play and feigning single or double high safety.

[pbmax]

I think this is what many of us are holding our collective breath about. When the Bears go up 10 -0 will LeFleur keep calling the run?

After three or four losses of a yard or two on outside zone runs, will Matty TheFlower still call running plays? Will Rodgers execute them? (I expect a lot of trouble trying to execute this zone-blocking scheme, and envision lots of moments in which the running back has the ball but no place to go.)

When Aaron Jones gets hurt, will The Flower call Jamaal Williams's number?

Will they actually run the ball this year?

How far do you want to fall behind before you alter the game plan? If M4 doesn't adjust a run heavy play call mix before half time, what makes him better than M3?

I mean, do you remember a lot of great comeback offenses in the 1970s?

[RashanGary]

You are underestimating how difficult it is to play the pass from box stuffing run looks. This should be obvious as teams don't hesitate to put the current matching personnel out on the field.

We are talking mainly safety play and feigning single or double high safety.

The Rams scored 3 points in the Super Bowl and 9 points against the Bears because they allowed themselves to be baited into pass plays and the QB is a sitting duck when trapped under center doing play action. It’s not that hard to disguise defenses. Bail your safety out of the box post snap. It’s not that difficult, really.

[mraynrand]

I mean, do you remember a lot of great comeback offenses in the 1970s?

Gonna be the Rodgers Tex Rogue offense all game long



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoNEZL-kUuk

[RashanGary]

That’s why Rodgers is often left holding the ball like a retard. The defense showed run, trapped him in a pass play then switched up post snap. AR has been mobile enough and durable enough and MM was gentle enough to let him run from the gun and do whatever he wanted. But now, under center, he’s gonna be killed if he tries to outsmart defenses who are actually outsmarting him.

[mraynrand]

You are underestimating how difficult it is to play the pass from box stuffing run looks. This should be obvious as teams don't hesitate to put the current matching personnel out on the field.

We are talking mainly safety play and feigning single or double high safety.

Not if nickel is base, right? And if you really aren't worried about the run.

[mraynrand]

I'm just hoping to not experience severe SMH/facepalm when Rodgers lines up under center to run play action with an empty backfield.

[RashanGary]

I’ll bet you anything, right now when AR goes to bed, he’s missing the sweet, loving Mike McCarthy, who let him do whatever he wanted and built a whole offense around what AR likes to do.

[RashanGary]

I'm just hoping to not experience severe SMH/facepalm when Rodgers lines up under center to run play action with an empty backfield.


:lol:

[mraynrand]

I’ll bet you anything, right now when AR goes to bed, he’s missing the sweet, loving Mike McCarthy, who let him do whatever he wanted and built a whole offense around what AR likes to do.

I bet Rodgers got second dibs on that masseuse too.

[RashanGary]

Not if nickel is base, right? And if you really aren't worried about the run.

Nickel is base and you bail into 2 deep bracket coverages with aggressive man or zone under. Yeah, there’s a reason AR is often caught off guard with no where to go, almost like a 15 year old caught with his dick in his hand. I know, Aaron, it feels good to jerk off, but try to hide it a little, buddy.

In the gun, with his athleticism and ability to throw on the move from unusual platforms, it was an offense created for Aaron Rodgers. Credit to McCarthy for building around his QB.

Under center, play action..... he’s fucked if he tries to pull that shit. The bright side is we won’t have to watch too much of his agony because he’ll be injured in less than 4 weeks.

[pbmax]

The Rams scored 3 points in the Super Bowl and 9 points against the Bears because they allowed themselves to be baited into pass plays and the QB is a sitting duck when trapped under center doing play action. It’s not that hard to disguise defenses. Bail your safety out of the box post snap. It’s not that difficult, really.

So you think that run-pass option under center offenses are at an inherent disadvantage. OK. Odd that only the Bears and Patriots figured that out.

But I think you are claiming too much certainty over two games with the Rams having an injured Gurley.

Defenses are not never ending fractals of possible defenses. I do agree that offenses who motion and play with no huddle get the edge in identifying or simplifying the defense. In an under center offense, the QB turning his back is a downside if the defense has the right call.

[RashanGary]

Not to humble brag, but AR’s obsession with being such a wizard at the line is an addiction similar to Favre’s love of throwing into tight windows. Neither guy could get out of their own way. AR loves to show how smart he is and Favre loved to show what a gun slinger he was. Both come at the expense of the team. Not to humble brag or anything. Just saying.

[pbmax]

Not if nickel is base, right? And if you really aren't worried about the run.

Defenses are very conservative. They match personnel almost all the time to the offenses personnel. Only in huge leverage or tendency situations do they ignore it.

Sure, nickel could be base, but Justin isn't worried about who is crowding the box to make sure its a pass; he says defenses are fooling the Rams. Well see Thursday of a stacked box in nickel means run to M4.

Fakery like this is not new and not confined to play action teams. Bears used to torture Rodgers/McCarthy with Urlacher all the time.

[pbmax]

Not to humble brag, but AR’s obsession with being such a wizard at the line is an addiction similar to Favre’s love of throwing into tight windows. Neither guy could get out of their own way. AR loves to show how smart he is and Favre loved to show what a gun slinger he was. Both come at the expense of the team. Not to humble brag or anything. Just saying.

This is just trolling, not humble-bragging. Are you OK?

[gbgary]

i'm predicting we get gashed up the middle on runs and qb scrambles/running plays, and we're hurt by the chi's short passing game. our D is on the field too much because the O can't sustain drives. a low-scoring loss...20-10. hope i'm wrong.

[RashanGary]

So you think that run-pass option under center offenses are at an inherent disadvantage. OK. Odd that only the Bears and Patriots figured that out.

But I think you are claiming too much certainty over two games with the Rams having an injured Gurley.

Defenses are not never ending fractals of possible defenses. I do agree that offenses who motion and play with no huddle get the edge in identifying or simplifying the defense. In an under center offense, the QB turning his back is a downside if the defense has the right call.

And I see times where mixing in the audibles and adjustments really help. If I had to design an offense, I’d make it more pace/execution/motion oriented to simplify defenses. And then every once in a while id mix in some of that adjustment stuff, but not so much that defenses can pick my plays for me. The Packers and Rams do it so much that teams figured out how to pick pass plays for them.

[RashanGary]

This is just trolling, not humble-bragging. Are you OK?

Yeah. Shitty sarcasm. Not cool. Will calm down

[pbmax]

@WesHod
The monsoon in Green Bay this morning pushed #Packers practice inside the Hutson Center.

Darrius Shepherd, Jace Sternberger, and Oren Burks still out. Ka’dar Hollman (neck) again in a non-contact jersey

[mraynrand]

Fakery like this is not new and not confined to play action teams. Bears used to torture Rodgers/McCarthy with Urlacher all the time.

Yes, because they could. Because Erlacher could defend the run and cover backs, TEs, slot receivers and the slower wideouts. Nice to have an Urlacher/Shazier type in there at the other LB. Essentially that's nickel but with a true run stopping capacity so that allows you to run everything and engage in effective fakery. Hell, with those guys you can pull your run-stopping LB and basically have dime as base to counter a passing team and have a reasonable expectation to stop the run (at least against teams constructed like the Packers last year).

[RashanGary]

Fakery like this is not new and not confined to play action teams. Bears used to torture Rodgers/McCarthy with Urlacher all the time.

Probably why the Bears were the first team to expose the Rams. They’ve gotten so good at doing it with Rodgers.

Also, the Rodgers offense has been better equipped to deal with it because out of the gun, AR can see the field better, escape better and turn a trap into magic more often. The whole offense was built around off schedule plays because they happened so often. So it has been happening to us.... year after year after year. This under center PA stuff.... it’s gonna be much harder to get away with.

[mraynrand]

AR’s obsession with being such a wizard at the line is an addiction similar to Favre’s love of throwing into tight windows. Neither guy could get out of their own way. AR loves to show how smart he is and Favre loved to show what a gun slinger he was. Both come at the expense of the team.

While this is an exaggeration, there's some truth to it.

[pbmax]

Yes, because they could. Because Erlacher could defend the run and cover backs, TEs, slot receivers and the slower wideouts. Nice to have an Urlacher/Shazier type in there at the other LB. Essentially that's nickel but with a true run stopping capacity so that allows you to run everything and engage in effective fakery. Hell, with those guys you can pull your run-stopping LB and basically have dime as base to counter a passing team and have a reasonable expectation to stop the run (at least against teams constructed like the Packers last year).

Right and against most defenses, the offense will either choose to attack a matchup (safety on a WR or a LB on a RB) or attack a scheme or front (run versus their nickel, pass to outside against single coverage).

Its gets much harder when the defenses get better (usually playoffs) with players who can hold the fort by themselves. Then you either avoid (Deion or Revis) or attack head on (Sherman running at Urlacher).

But even the Bears, under Lovie, when ALL outlets called it a Cover 2 or Tampa 2 defense, rarely used Cover 2 on first or second down. Somehow a team always noted for running the same defense was disguising non Cover 2 coverage. All a shell game.

And that is why M3's reluctance to motion or bunch was always maddening. He was conceding tactical advantage to run the play as it was designed originally. He put a lot on Rodgers plate.

[gbgary]

While this is an exaggeration, there's some truth to it.

some? he nailed it!

[mraynrand]

Probably why the Bears were the first team to expose the Rams. They’ve gotten so good at doing it with Rodgers.

Also, the Rodgers offense has been better equipped to deal with it because out of the gun, AR can see the field better, escape better and turn a trap into magic more often. The whole offense was built around off schedule plays because they happened so often. So it has been happening to us.... year after year after year. This under center PA stuff.... it’s gonna be much harder to get away with.

Yep. They are going to have to be able to actually run the ball and connect with primary WR targets at a reasonable success level for it to work. It will be interesting to the the under center versus shotgun(and the shorter version) percentages.

[RashanGary]

The Rams took the league by storm the way the Packers did. McVay took the shannahan offense and added more advanced presnap audible capabilities. They already had teams on their heals with the pace and deceptive play selections. Then they did a couple audibles and a couple more and they were slaying the league.

Until

The Chicago Bears came along. They’ve seen this before.... McCarthy/Rodgers once took the league by storm in a similar way, taking WCO and adding advanced audible capabilities. Nobody could stop them. Until teams learned how to get the Packers into pass plays and play 2 over with aggresssice under coverage. The offense has never been the same since. And if the Rams don’t adjust, teams have it figured out now. They’ll never be the same either.

I just Hope AR doesn’t keep trying the same tired shit that hasn’t worked for years.

[pbmax]

Yep. They are going to have to be able to actually run the ball and connect with primary WR targets at a reasonable success level for it to work. It will be interesting to the the under center versus shotgun(and the shorter version) percentages.

Its the first game. I could see the new offense stagger and get a lead until the Bears adjust.

I could also see it struggle and Rodgers dust off the extended offense to mount a comeback.

But he has beaten this team with less, he can do it again. We'll see.

[mraynrand]

And that is why M3's reluctance to motion or bunch was always maddening. He was conceding tactical advantage to run the play as it was designed originally. He put a lot on Rodgers plate.

Yep, especially when the receiver talent dropped below the level to create actual mismatches/get open.

[pbmax]

The Rams took the league by storm the way the Packers did. McVay took the shannahan offense and added more advanced presnap audible capabilities. They already had teams on their heals with the pace and deceptive play selections. Then they did a couple audibles and a couple more and they were slaying the league.

Until

The Chicago Bears came along. They’ve seen this before.... McCarthy/Rodgers once took the league by storm in a similar way, taking WCO and adding advanced audible capabilities. Nobody could stop them. Until teams learned how to get the Packers into pass plays and play 2 over with aggresssice under coverage. The offense has never been the same since. And if the Rams don’t adjust, teams have it figured out now. They’ll never be the same either.

I just Hope AR doesn’t keep trying the same tired shit that hasn’t worked for years.

When did the Bears take this away? When was the last time they held the Packers to under 6 points?

Its amazing that the Bears couldn't manage to beat the Eagles at home and the Rams made the Super Bowl, but the Rams scoring 6 points is the most important item in the Packers 2019 season.

[mraynrand]

The Rams took the league by storm the way the Packers did. McVay took the shannahan offense and added more advanced presnap audible capabilities. They already had teams on their heals with the pace and deceptive play selections. Then they did a couple audibles and a couple more and they were slaying the league.

Until

The Chicago Bears came along. They’ve seen this before.... McCarthy/Rodgers once took the league by storm in a similar way, taking WCO and adding advanced audible capabilities. Nobody could stop them. Until teams learned how to get the Packers into pass plays and play 2 over with aggresssice under coverage. The offense has never been the same since. And if the Rams don’t adjust, teams have it figured out now. They’ll never be the same either.

I just Hope AR doesn’t keep trying the same tired shit that hasn’t worked for years.

I know the defensive adjustments had an impact, but I still believe the drop in receiving talent was a more critical factor in the offensive drop off. Stubby just couldn't run the offense he wanted and his adjustments could only achieve so much.

[RashanGary]

And that is why M3's reluctance to motion or bunch was always maddening. He was conceding tactical advantage to run the play as it was designed originally. He put a lot on Rodgers plate.

So true! Was a part of that AR wanting the extra time to choose plays though?? Motions would have helped a lot. They basically built the whole thing around AR finding out the disguise post snap and making magic happen. He’s getting too old for that shit.

[gbgary]

I’ll bet you anything, right now when AR goes to bed, he’s missing the sweet, loving Mike McCarthy, who let him do whatever he wanted and built a whole offense around what AR likes to do.

i've got a feeling nothing has changed after MLF's capiulation.

[RashanGary]

I know the defensive adjustments had an impact, but I still believe the drop in receiving talent was a more critical factor in the offensive drop off. Stubby just couldn't run the offense he wanted and his adjustments could only achieve so much.


Very true..... very very true. Especially last year.

[RashanGary]

I know the defensive adjustments had an impact, but I still believe the drop in receiving talent was a more critical factor in the offensive drop off. Stubby just couldn't run the offense he wanted and his adjustments could only achieve so much.


Isn’t it equally maddening that Jones averaged 5.5 yards per carry and they barely ran the ball even when he was healthy. They could have adapted and ran more

[RashanGary]

Pb,

It wasn’t necessarily the Bears that exposed the Packers, but teams have been baiting the Packers into audibles for a while now and learned how to gain an advantage that way. So they were equipped to expose the Rams audible system having so much experience playing the Packers audible system.

[pbmax]

So true! Was a part of that AR wanting the extra time to choose plays though?? Motions would have helped a lot. They basically built the whole thing around AR finding out the disguise post snap and making magic happen. He’s getting too old for that shit.

Do you remember seeing motions in Rodgers first year starting?

[pbmax]

Pb,

It wasn’t necessarily the Bears that exposed the Packers, but teams have been baiting the Packers into audibles for a while now and learned how to gain an advantage that way. So they were equipped to expose the Rams audible system having so much experience playing the Packers audible system.

Justin, none of this is new. Bears with unbelievable personnel could bait the Packers into traps in 2009 and 2010. With lesser personnel, Packers rolled over them. Including a pretty good second half last year versus those same Bears.

Its not the bait and disguise, its the personnel.

When Fangio ruined the Packers offense in San Fran, it was a Cover 2 shell with man under. No disguise. The "Bears" didn't learning anything from the Packer games. They simply devised a strategy for the Rams that worked.

And I might note that the Patriots used a different strategy: quarters zone coverage, something they had no played much off all year.

[RashanGary]

Justin, none of this is new. Bears with unbelievable personnel could bait the Packers into traps in 2009 and 2010. With lesser personnel, Packers rolled over them. Including a pretty good second half last year versus those same Bears.

Its not the bait and disguise, its the personnel.

When Fangio ruined the Packers offense in San Fran, it was a Cover 2 shell with man under. No disguise. The "Bears" didn't learning anything from the Packer games. They simply devised a strategy for the Rams that worked.

And I might note that the Patriots used a different strategy: quarters zone coverage, something they had no played much off all year.

The Bears ran a lot of quarters against the Rams. They showed run defense first though, to bait the audible. Patricia’s Lions did the same and then NE did the same again. Slight variations in how they baited the pass plays, but same general deception in baiting pass and playing quarters post snap.

Pb, seriously, do you really think defenses just go up and honest Abe give Rodgers (or any audible offense) their coverages so Rodgers can audible into the right play? Hell NO! They know he audibles more than anyone so they bait him. It’s really not that complicated.

Teams knew Favre threw into tight coverage so they trained all week to be ready for the ball even if they’ve got a guy covered. Teams know AR checks into passes when he sees certain looks so they bait him in. It’s so obsessive for him it’s become predictable.

He’s got away with it because of his athleticism mixed with his ability to throw on the move and from off platforms. The plays constantly break down and there he’s left holding the ball and having to make something happen off schedule. If he was really in good plays, the plays would be working as designed not breaking into scramble drills on 40% of his drop backs.

[RashanGary]

The Packers literally had an offense designed around getting to the line quick so AR could audible however he wanted. But then finding out after the snap it’s a completely different defense and having to hold the ball and do scramble drills. It’s truly ridiculous, but they were so good at the scramble drills and Rodgers is so good at scrambling, they made a whole offense out of it.

That’s why the Bears were so quick to fuck up the Rams system. They’re used to playing an audible heavy offense. They know how to mess it up. And now so does everyone else.

[RashanGary]

And if AR still tries to be audible-centric, he’s going to be hurt doing it under center with play action passes.

Either MLF is gonna have to put him in gun so he doesn’t get killed or he’s going to actually have to run the ball. You can’t have it both ways. Ask the Rams.

[Fritz]

How far do you want to fall behind before you alter the game plan? If M4 doesn't adjust a run heavy play call mix before half time, what makes him better than M3?

I mean, do you remember a lot of great comeback offenses in the 1970s?

I do. I was constantly calling out to the Packers' offense "Come back! Please! Come back, offense! Where did you go?"

[RashanGary]

I’m rooting for MLF because I’m sick of the bad audible/broken play offense we’ve been sucking at for the last few years.

[call_me_ishmael]

The Broncos fucked up the Packers offense not because they out scheme'd them - but they showed the world how to play them and defeat them by aggressively pressing and getting pressure with four. Not just any team can do this. The Broncos just happened to have special players (Talib, Harris Jr, Miller) that enabled this to wreak havoc and totally shut them down.

Other teams caught on and when crunch time came against good teams, they employed similar strategies. I wouldn't say these were "Packer killers" or anything, just a good team finding a way to beat a good offense.

Likewise, the Bears and Patriots didn't show "the formula" to beating the Shanahan every-play-looks-the-same offense. They just happened to have a scheme that work paired with the horses to do it. The Pats got lucky they could sit in quarters coverage because whats-his-face the RB was hurt and a non-factor. If he's playing and effective, do you think they're able to sit in quarters? Uhh, no. The Bears, meanwhile, happened to acquire a freaky deaky linebacker who can tackle like a linebacker but run like a damn gazelle. This enables a whole lot of different scenarios and gives you schematic flexibility in the sense of keeping your opponent guessing and responding to your opponent's changes.


My gut feeling is the Packers are going to be very tough to stop if they make their bread and butter out of two back set and do legitimately commit to running the ball. They'll be extremely hard to stop on playaction if you have to respect the run.

[RashanGary]

Ishmael,

Patriots completely flipped script and played quarters defense post snap but showed 6 man lines presnap to get the audible out of zone runs.

But yes, personnel matters too. But audible reliant teams get baited and that’s a double disadvantage on top of personnel

Packers learned to master the broken play/bad audible offense but it’s so much work and falls apart too often.

[RashanGary]

I’m a proponent of the MLF system of run/pass plays looking similar and being unpredictable mixed with a torrid pace so defenses can’t catch their breath and a few motions to unveil possible masked coverages. I just think you get less broken plays that way and more big plays on schedule as the unpredictability and play similarity gets teams out of position.

Easier on the QBs body. The whole team is more involved with the run plays. It’s just better team offense imo. Also easier on the defense with longer drives instead of living and dying by the broken play.

[RashanGary]

Amazingly relevant to what we have going on here! Must read!

https://amp-si-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/02/nfl-super-bowl-50-gary-kubiak-peyton-manning?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ%3D%3D#aoh=15675394553918&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fmmqb%2F2016%2F 02%2F02%2Fnfl-super-bowl-50-gary-kubiak-peyton-manning

[pbmax]

Pb, seriously, do you really think defenses just go up and honest Abe give Rodgers (or any audible offense) their coverages so Rodgers can audible into the right play? Hell NO! They know he audibles more than anyone so they bait him. It’s really not that complicated.
s.

Yes, most teams do. Its not easy to disguise. You need vets and a good handle of the defense. Even harder to do it and not give anything away. The hard count doesn't just draw D lineman offside. The double count and working the clock to near zero often reveals a defenses intention. I love that you think this is just a one sided affair. You gonna audible, we'll disguise. Game over! :)

Would LOVE to see your evidence of Bears quarter coverage AND a run front. Must have been a mighty run front with 7 in a box and four deep DBs.

Also would love to see ANY evidence that the Bears and Fangio before 2018 really got Rodgers confused. Let's see: Rodgers versus Bears and Fangio:

Packers scores against Bears since 2015:
31, 13, 26, 30, 35 (must have been VERY good scheming), 23, 24 and 17.

Funny how I don't see a 6 point game anywhere here.

You want confusion: go look at the score versus Lovie's better Bears D. The best Bears D in almost a decade gave up an average of 20.5 points to a TERRIBLE Packers offense. Is this supposed to be evidence for disguising working or not working?

You do know that not every play is a run or pass option, right?

[RashanGary]

Yes, most teams do. Its not easy to disguise. You need vets and a good handle of the defense. Even harder to do it and not give anything away. The hard count doesn't just draw D lineman offside. The double count and working the clock to near zero often reveals a defenses intention. I love that you think this is just a one sided affair. You gonna audible, we'll disguise. Game over! :)
?

Point taken. Rodgers is good at it. It’s not a completely useless system, like you say, especially with the right personnel. I certainly want to acknowledge the solid points for it and the effectiveness of it, in both Manning and Rodgers cases.

I still have a lean toward the pace/similar play/motion style. I just think it’s so much easier to run and gets the OL and running back engaged and just makes for emotionally charged aggressive team football. I like that style more and see more champion success with it. Maybe not statistical, but Super Bowl wins with guys like Aikman or Brady’s championship years vs his stat years.

[mraynrand]

Wait, the TexRogue™/Extended offense isn't really an audible offense is it? I mean, Rodgers is just making it up and hoping guys run to deep open spots that he imagines in his head, right? He's not audibling to see crappy quick slant that'll get picked, and at best he's audibling out of a terrible run play that never works, right? Just scramble and wing it! You can't defend that!

[Teamcheez1]

In real news, TE Jace Sternberger has been place on IR.

James Crawford not a candidate to come back as he was signed by the Dolphins.

[texaspackerbacker]

I went away for several hours, and wow, an explosion of posts.

What's gonna happen is gonna happen. Did you haters of "extended offense" and wishers and hopers for something new and revolutionary see anything like you envision in the preseason? No? Gosh, I wonder why not hahahahahaha. And that was with Boyle and Kizer - no Rodgers to blame (for doing what works).

Play design as well as what actually happens after the snap is a product of PERSONNEL, not ego and bullheadedness. Packer personnel dictates that you cannot have success in a run-first offense. It ain't that I hate the run game - if we were talking about the Badgers with that great O Line, a possible GOAT RB, and probable mediocrity at QB, I'd be right there with ya'all saying "run first/run often". But this is the Packers - with a sieve of an O Line that only has decent stats because Aaron Rodgers escapes the pass rush (i.e. extended offense). Our O Line repeatedly proves the foolhardiness of wasting downs running behind it.

And then there's that separate question about how to conduct a passing offense. I assume most of ya'all watch other games that either you care who wins or you do not. Do you seriously not see the STUPIDITY of throwing it into a crowd - quick passes which ya'all crave because they maybe negate the pass rush, and getting interceptions? Aaron Rodgers doesn't do that; Tim Boyle in the limited sample of preseason didn't do that; Deshone Watson doesn't do that (I've heard idiot commentators claim he holds onto the ball too long hahahahaha); Dak Prescott mostly doesn't do that; A helluva lot of other QBs do that, though, with a lot of bad results. Just watch Trubisky "do it ya'all's way", and throw a couple to the Packers on Thursday.

[RashanGary]

Tex, you do realize the Packers brought in an offensive coach who comes from the Mike Shanahan tree. Mike Shanahan, Kubiak, Kyle, McVay, Lafleur..... they all match their run plays with pass plays so it all looks alike. This is an offense that is not built around audibles like AR wants. It’s built around pace and patterning playcalls and the run game.

Oh, it’s a topic. AR or Lafleur, just like Manning and Kubiak... someone’s gonna have to bend.

[pbmax]

Play design as well as what actually happens after the snap is a product of PERSONNEL, not ego and bullheadedness. Packer personnel dictates that you cannot have success in a run-first offense. It ain't that I hate the run game -

When he is right, he is right. But this could change as the team adapts to a run emphasis. My bet is its still pass first and most.

[texaspackerbacker]

Several years of superb O Line drafting combined with Aaron Rodgers getting a little less mobile by age 40 or so, and you might see a run emphasis hahahaha. Wouldn't Jonathan Taylor look great in an outside zone rushing scheme? It almost certainly will not be with the Packers, though.

[RashanGary]

8 of the top 11 rushing offenses made the playoffs last year. The number 3 and number 5 rushing offenses played in the super bowl. Having a balanced offense isn’t such the horrible thing you make it out to be, Tex and company. Aaron Rodgers might even have more success if the offense he is in, runs the ball more. They literally averaged 5 yards per attempt last year so maybe a couple more of those 5 yard scampers instead of 70% passes would have lead to more offensive success. Maybe even opened up the passing game further??

[RashanGary]

When he is right, he is right. But this could change as the team adapts to a run emphasis. My bet is its still pass first and most.


There was literally one team in the league that ran over 50% of the time last year. Don’t go too far out on that limb. But successful teams do tend to run better and more than average. So we should be in the upper half of run success to be a better team instead of near the end.

[RashanGary]

If Rodgers was willing to run the ball, his passing numbers might even go up with it because he’ll get more favorable defenses on his passing attempts.

[Joemailman]

If Rodgers was willing to run the ball, his passing numbers might even go up with it because he’ll get more favorable defenses on his passing attempts.

My hope is that the running game will bring back the deep post pattern off play action. For the first time since Jordy's prime, Packers have the speed receivers to run it.

[pbmax]

There was literally one team in the league that ran over 50% of the time last year. Don’t go too far out on that limb. But successful teams do tend to run better and more than average. So we should be in the upper half of run success to be a better team instead of near the end.

Yes, because they have leads.

[RashanGary]

My hope is that the running game will bring back the deep post pattern off play action. For the first time since Jordy's prime, Packers have the speed receivers to run it.

Absolutely. And MVS is a unique talent imo. I just looked at the top 20 reception leaders. 13 were receivers. Only one of the 13 was over 6’3”. So in the NFL right now it’s less common for really tall receivers to dominate.

Taller guys tend to be a little heavier and lumbering and struggle to get off the line, clean.

MVS has a unique skillset in that he’s tall, long arms, agile and incredibly fast! Plus he’s smart and determined and a cool dude, imo, but what does that have to do with anything. But I think he can be an elite deep threat and one of those rare 6’4” guys who has 1,000 yard seasons.

[RashanGary]

Yes, because they have leads.

It also slows pass rush, brings linebackers up so the pass game flourishes, leads to more favorable coverages and wears teams out. They have the lead because they run the ball.

[Joemailman]

In real news, TE Jace Sternberger has been place on IR.

James Crawford not a candidate to come back as he was signed by the Dolphins.

Allen Lazard promoted to 53.

[RashanGary]

T
Yes, because they have leads.


I stand corrected. The Packers ran the ball at a good rate in the first quarter and not in the 4th. The Patriots ran slightly more in the 4th. Same for Rams. So the lead was a primary reason for that. I checked the splits by quarter and half.

[pbmax]

T


I stand corrected. The Packers ran the ball at a good rate in the first quarter and not in the 4th. The Patriots ran slightly more in the 4th. Same for Rams. So the lead was a primary reason for that. I checked the splits by quarter and half.

Now that is some research I can stand behind. And not just because it suits my priors! :D

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, you do realize the Packers brought in an offensive coach who comes from the Mike Shanahan tree. Mike Shanahan, Kubiak, Kyle, McVay, Lafleur..... they all match their run plays with pass plays so it all looks alike. This is an offense that is not built around audibles like AR wants. It’s built around pace and patterning playcalls and the run game.

Oh, it’s a topic. AR or Lafleur, just like Manning and Kubiak... someone’s gonna have to bend.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It also does not preclude audibles - that would be stupid. Pace/no huddle has been a major part of the Packers game long before LaFleur came along. Rodgers thrives in it. He also calls a lot of the plays.

Audibles or not is not the big deal, though. The necessary thing - which I am very confident will continue - is what ya'all detractors like to call extending the play. This is something Aaron Rodgers does better than anybody else, and he does it mostly out of necessity/primarily because it is a good idea. If you're a smart mobile QB, when you're confronted by a strong pass rush - as Rodgers almost always is with this O Line, you don't just stand there and unload it into a crowd. You buy some time with your feet and then hit an open receiver if possible/occasionally taking off and running. That's just common sense - for survival as well as for success. If you're a smart coach - which I'm pretty sure LaFleur is - you realize what works with the personnel you have, and you go with it. And if you're a smart GM, you interview your new coach, and you make damn sure he sees things that way and will subordinate his ego accordingly.

And if you're a smart fan, you appreciate the QB greatness the Packers have had for more than a quarter century and the winning teams we've had virtually all that time, and you don't piss and moan and talk stupid shit about how other teams do things better.

[RashanGary]

Looking at the splits by half, the Packers did run the ball well in the first half and faltered as they got behind.

They had the 14th ranked scoring offense
.............. the 22nd ranked scoring defense
Goslin's.. 32nd ranked special teams

And honestly, the offense rarely turned it over and the defense rarely got turnovers. So the offense had to fight twice as hard for that 14th ranking and the defense is probably even worse than 22nd because they were never left out to dry by offensive turnovers.

SO..... With the new information in hand, I will go ahead and say the poor defense (highlighted by giving up points and exaggerated by no turnovers), mixed with horrible special teams, combined with AR having only one weapon he had chemistry with as the core issues with the 2018 Packers.

[texaspackerbacker]

Allen Lazard promoted to 53.

Good. As I understand the IR rules, Sternberger can return, since he was on the original 53 man roster. Hopefully, he will do that at some point, and Mercedes Lewis will get dumped.

[pbmax]

Looking at the splits by half, the Packers did run the ball well in the first half and faltered as they got behind.

They had the 14th ranked scoring offense
.............. the 22nd ranked scoring defense
Goslin's.. 32nd ranked special teams

And honestly, the offense rarely turned it over and the defense rarely got turnovers. So the offense had to fight twice as hard for that 14th ranking and the defense is probably even worse than 22nd because they were never left out to dry by offensive turnovers.

SO..... With the new information in hand, I will go ahead and say the poor defense, mixed with horrible special teams, combined with AR having only one weapon he had chemistry with as the core issues with the 2018 Packers.

If they have a number 5-7 ranked scoring offense last year (say Cobb or Graham a little healthier and Rodgers without a bum knee) and the Packers would have been a carbon copy of 3 or 4 of their teams this decade. Playoffs but with a questionable D and ST that wouldn't help.

[RashanGary]

McCarthy and Rodgers were doing a good job with the offense. The defense and special teams were downright pathetic.

[RashanGary]

If they have a number 5-7 ranked scoring offense last year (say Cobb or Graham a little healthier and Rodgers without a bum knee) and the Packers would have been a carbon copy of 3 or 4 of their teams this decade. Playoffs but with a questionable D and ST that wouldn't help.

Yeah. Gute and Murphy blew up the McCarthy/TT show. The defense got overhauled. JK Scott looks much improved. Davis is healthy. Lets hope for a better 2019!

[pbmax]

McCarthy and Rodgers were doing a good job with the offense. The defense and special teams were downright pathetic.

I think that ST has to fall to McCarthy. Practice and his coordinators plus access to starting players. A bit to Thompson because he rarely carried special team demons.

Defense falls on Thompson and Capers never getting it together after 2009/10. Perry was a perfectly good pick and fit in the D, but he was never healthy.

[RashanGary]

Honestly, truth. be told, I think Ted Thompson is mostly responsible for the last two years. McCarthy is next by not doing enough to support the defense and Special teams. But those couple bad drafts first and foremost, combined with letting Hyde and Heyward go, combined with resigning Perry just crushed our team.

Gute cut bait with the old, made up for the bad drafts with some core free agents from the 2015 draft and then drafted Alexander and a bunch of promising guys. It has a chance to be a quick turn around.

[RashanGary]

I think that ST has to fall to McCarthy. Practice and his coordinators plus access to starting players. A bit to Thompson because he rarely carried special team demons.

Defense falls on Thompson and Capers never getting it together after 2009/10. Perry was a perfectly good pick and fit in the D, but he was never healthy.

Yep. I'm pretty much in agreement. Honestly, I barely watched last year. I had a stressful job and went through a breakup with a shitty ex girlfriend so I just sort of didn't pay close attention at all. Normally if I watched every game closely, I'd know the defense and STs were pathetic. Last year was my least attentive football season. I didn't even watch half of the games.

[Bretsky]

Honestly, truth. be told, I think Ted Thompson is mostly responsible for the last two years. McCarthy is next by not doing enough to support the defense and Special teams. But those couple bad drafts first and foremost, combined with letting Hyde and Heyward go, combined with resigning Perry just crushed our team.

Gute cut bait with the old, made up for the bad drafts with some core free agents from the 2015 draft and then drafted Alexander and a bunch of promising guys. It has a chance to be a quick turn around.


Agree with this

But as Patler said, terrible mistake to trade away a natural safety for Kizer

I think MM had a lot to do with that though

[RashanGary]

Agree with this

But as Patler said, terrible mistake to trade away a natural safety for Kizer

I think MM had a lot to do with that though

Hyde, Heyward and Randall combined with an awful 2015 draft. Had he resigned Tretter we wouldn’t have had the revolving door of poop at RG last year. TT was really bad down the stretch there. The only saving grace is that he had so much cap space so Gute could make a swift turnaround. TT was bad but horrible is when you spend all the money and still suck. At least be left the next guy with a boatload of cash and some good pieces in hand.

Still, bad enough to not be Packer standard. Not at all. Murphy did the right thing to let both those guys go. Looks to be in better hands now.

[RashanGary]

Bretsky,

Rodgers, Bakh, Taulor, Linsley, Bulaga, Adams, Jones, Williams
Clark, M Adams, Lowry, Martinez, Fackrell, King
Crosby, Davis

And a boatload of cash and only one bad contract....

At least he left it in position to turn around quickly. I get the feeling with TTs illness all of the higher ups were fighting amongst each other and messing shit up. Gute is healthy and has the energy to make swift, confident decisions so it seems in better hands now.

[gbgary]

Agree with this

But as Patler said, terrible mistake to trade away a natural safety for Kizer

I think MM had a lot to do with that though

he quit on the team though and forced his way out. dr heyward and mr hyde were much bigger mistakes than randall trade could ever be considered.

[gbgary]

Bretsky,

Rodgers, Bakh, Taulor, Linsley, Bulaga, Adams, Jones, Williams
Clark, M Adams, Lowry, Martinez, Fackrell, King
Crosby, Davis

And a boatload of cash and only one bad contract....

At least he left it in position to turn around quickly. I get the feeling with TTs illness all of the higher ups were fighting amongst each other and messing shit up. Gute is healthy and has the energy to make swift, confident decisions so it seems in better hands now.

i think that's more on ball than ted. they (ball, murphy, and mccarthy) were covering for ted those last 2-3 seasons as he declined.

[gbgary]

Honestly, truth. be told, I think Ted Thompson is mostly responsible for the last two years. McCarthy is next by not doing enough to support the defense and Special teams. But those couple bad drafts first and foremost, combined with letting Hyde and Heyward go, combined with resigning Perry just crushed our team.

Gute cut bait with the old, made up for the bad drafts with some core free agents from the 2015 draft and then drafted Alexander and a bunch of promising guys. It has a chance to be a quick turn around.

yup

[Joemailman]

Darrius Shepherd out with a hamstring. Kid learns fast.

[pbmax]

i think that's more on ball than ted. they (ball, murphy, and mccarthy) were covering for ted those last 2-3 seasons as he declined.

Who hired and gave Ball his marching orders? Ted was always in a good position for the next year.

[pbmax]

he quit on the team though and forced his way out. dr heyward and mr hyde were much bigger mistakes than randall trade could ever be considered.

Quit on the team? When?

He had one blowup when the coaches didn't want to hear about Jones' blowing another coverage. He melted down and got sent to the locker room. Not exactly quitting.

[Bretsky]

Bretsky,

Rodgers, Bakh, Taulor, Linsley, Bulaga, Adams, Jones, Williams
Clark, M Adams, Lowry, Martinez, Fackrell, King
Crosby, Davis

And a boatload of cash and only one bad contract....

At least he left it in position to turn around quickly. I get the feeling with TTs illness all of the higher ups were fighting amongst each other and messing shit up. Gute is healthy and has the energy to make swift, confident decisions so it seems in better hands now.



I get that same feeling; others knew TT was not well and without a strong leader my gut tells me there were power struggles

[Bretsky]

he quit on the team though and forced his way out. dr heyward and mr hyde were much bigger mistakes than randall trade could ever be considered.


Not sure about this

Is Hyde really any better than Randall ?

And I don't view what Randall did as quitting; he actually called out some teammates and rightfully so after a loss.

But MM didn't like any of this and/or his attitude

He looks awesome as a safety in Cleveland

[gbgary]

Quit on the team? When?

He had one blowup when the coaches didn't want to hear about Jones' blowing another coverage. He melted down and got sent to the locker room. Not exactly quitting.

he was sat after a mistake and at halftime he left the stadium. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/packers-damarious-randall-reportedly-left-stadium-after-argument-with-coaches/

[gbgary]

Not sure about this

Is Hyde really any better than Randall ?

And I don't view what Randall did as quitting; he actually called out some teammates and rightfully so after a loss.

But MM didn't like any of this and/or his attitude

He looks awesome as a safety in Cleveland

hyde was 2nd team all-pro in 17

[Bretsky]

i was sat after a mistake and at halftime he left the stadium. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/packers-damarious-randall-reportedly-left-stadium-after-argument-with-coaches/


I think he was told to leave the field.

If he left the stadium......agree...not a good choice.....but I would not consider that to be quitting on the team.

MM had a bone up his ass for Randall IMO

And shame on Gooter for trading talent for a piece of junk

[Bretsky]

hyde was 2nd team all-pro in 17


Was he better than Randall last year ? I don't think he was

[gbgary]

Was he better than Randall last year ? I don't think he was

pff rated him 72.8 and hyde 84...there's that.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-ranks-the-top-10-safeties-ahead-of-the-2019-nfl-season

https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/1105458668978487296

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1dgzI_WwAA2uva.jpg:large

[pbmax]

he was sat after a mistake and at halftime he left the stadium. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/packers-damarious-randall-reportedly-left-stadium-after-argument-with-coaches/

I believe McCarthy later said he was sent to the locker room after the blow up. More to the point, he went on from this to be there best DB in the second half of the season.

[pbmax]

I agree Hyde was the bigger misplay. They had four or five seasons to figure that out.

[pbmax]

Found an article on Belichick's defense for the Rams in the Super Bowl. Sounds here much less like disguising early and instead forcing pass calls with 8 in the box (6 on the LOS). This isn't pass defense fakery as there are 6 men on the LOS, four lineman, one OLB and a safety. Standard nickel personnel against the 11 personnel for the Rams.

Sounds like BB figured out the difference between the 11 personnel they passed with (Gerald Everett at TE) and the 11 personnel they ran with (Higbee at TE). Less of a problem with 2 TEs hopefully.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/super-bowl-53-bill-belichick-gameplan-genius

[RashanGary]

Found an article on Belichick's defense for the Rams in the Super Bowl. Sounds here much less like disguising early and instead forcing pass calls with 8 in the box (6 on the LOS). This isn't pass defense fakery as there are 6 men on the LOS, four lineman, one OLB and a safety. Standard nickel personnel against the 11 personnel for the Rams.

Sounds like BB figured out the difference between the 11 personnel they passed with (Gerald Everett at TE) and the 11 personnel they ran with (Higbee at TE). Less of a problem with 2 TEs hopefully.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/super-bowl-53-bill-belichick-gameplan-genius

6 on the LOS is an aggressive look to stop outside zone running because it is aggressive at setting edges, especially vs 11 personnel, which the Rams mostly employed. So I do think that was intended to coax the Rams out of zone runs. Post snap, BB played a lot of quarters, which was designed to stop the passing attack.

[mraynrand]

I believe McCarthy later said he was sent to the locker room after the blow up. More to the point, he went on from this to be there best DB in the second half of the season.

I dunno. I bet Randall will still blow up. He has blue hair and a fragile psyche. I call him “Blue Emo”

[pbmax]

6 on the LOS is an aggressive look to stop outside zone running because it is aggressive at setting edges, especially vs 11 personnel, which the Rams mostly employed. So I do think that was intended to coax the Rams out of zone runs. Post snap, BB played a lot of quarters, which was designed to stop the passing attack.

But coaxing Rams out of runs is not trapping them. Teams stack boxes all the time and its not a trap, its saying we don't want you to run against us on early downs.

Somehow I doubt anyone would do that against Rodgers unless its 3rd and short.

And the coverage the Patriots usually run is called Cover 7, which is matchup Quarters. So that shouldn't have been a surprise.

Its possible the Pats didn't run it as much last year, I am not sure.

But this was a bet against Goff. And it paid off.

[pbmax]

The coverage wrinkle, at least as identified by this writer, wasn't Quarters. It was a three level zone. See the article for the pics and clips of the Lions and Patriots using it.


In a typical zone defense, there are two levels of coverage, so offenses will run three-level stretches to create a numbers advantage.

The bulk of the Rams’ play-action passing game is made up of three-level stretches. So, against Los Angeles, Patricia simply added a third level to his zone defense, with the strong safety (black circle) playing in between the second- and third levels of the defense in order to defend the intermediate crossing routes (yellow circle) that power the Rams’ play-action game.

[pbmax]

What I don't understand is that by either dropping a safety (Lions) or fast CB (Patriots) into the intermediate zone to cover crossers shouldn't work that well. Crossers are designed to beat man coverage and versus a zone there should be two or three dead open windows.

Either getting a head start in the middle of the field helped, or screwed up the read. Or Goff just did not recognize the opening would be either early or late.

The solution to this would be to flood the same side of the field with another route. Don't run a route at the lurking DB.

[mraynrand]

Found an article on Belichick's defense for the Rams in the Super Bowl....

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/super-bowl-53-bill-belichick-gameplan-genius

At least early on in that article it's acknowledged that Bill B. was the main reason for the Giants Super Bowl wins. As good as he may have been, Parcells couldn't win without BB.

[mraynrand]

What I don't understand is that by either dropping a safety (Lions) or fast CB (Patriots) into the intermediate zone to cover crossers shouldn't work that well. Crossers are designed to beat man coverage and versus a zone there should be two or three dead open windows.

Either getting a head start in the middle of the field helped, or screwed up the read. Or Goff just did not recognize the opening would be either early or late.

The solution to this would be to flood the same side of the field with another route. Don't run a route at the lurking DB.


Maybe BB's defense just run that matchup zone better than anyone else. Flawless 'Handing off' of coverages between the zones just leaves smaller windows for pass completions. At least causes hesitation and disrupts timing.

[Fosco33]

Week 5 2017 - last time ARod finished a game actually healthy. Top10 D and improved running game. Should at least be watchable football.

That said - I see a low score tonight and a L. 17-14

[George Cumby]

Does Rodgers even make it through this game healthy?

IDK.

I wouldn't put to much on that.

[Fritz]

Week 5 2017 - last time ARod finished a game actually healthy. Top10 D and improved running game. Should at least be watchable football.

That said - I see a low score tonight and a L. 17-14

Given the quality of the Bears' defensive personnel, and the fact they're in year two of the offensive system, and given that the Packers' offensive system is brand new to them, I think that, if the Packers are going to win, it's going to take either a defensive score or a punt/kick return for a score, plus no Bears' defensive touchdowns or ST scores, for a Packer win.

So, go Trevor Davis, go!

[pbmax]

Just had an argument with a person at work. Person was dead set on leaving Bulaga alone against Mack, as McCarthy was won't to do so as not to mess with the pretty drawings he made of routes*.

I claimed BB would be fine now that he is healthy and more than a year away from ACL surgery. Coworker claimed BB can't pass protect and that is why he is a RT.

This is the reason this board can never die.

BB might have trouble with Mack but its not because he could never pass block. Its age and injury that will catch him.


*cheap shot, I know

[mraynrand]

Just had an argument with a person at work.

kick his ass

[SudsMcBucky]

kick his ass


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsxaDJAszjs

[texaspackerbacker]

Just had an argument with a person at work. Person was dead set on leaving Bulaga alone against Mack, as McCarthy was won't to do so as not to mess with the pretty drawings he made of routes*.

I claimed BB would be fine now that he is healthy and more than a year away from ACL surgery. Coworker claimed BB can't pass protect and that is why he is a RT.

This is the reason this board can never die.

BB might have trouble with Mack but its not because he could never pass block. Its age and injury that will catch him.


*cheap shot, I know

Yeah, likely letting Bulaga go solo against Mack would be a bad idea, but that just highlights one of the MANY reasons the Packers should beat the Bears without too much difficulty and score a decent amount of points: a healthy Bulaga - to start with anyway. Also, our pass receivers are a lot better, and arguably our RBs will be slightly improved too compared to last year. The most significant thing I can see, though, is that puffed up Bear defense that so many are so afraid of has taken a step or two backwards in their secondary. That, and the Packers have, of course, improved across the board on D.

Actually, I could even see letting Bulaga have a go at Mack part of the time - and trusting our mobile QB to beat the rush and throw it down field - or at least to Aaron Jones coming out of the back field rather than staying in to block Mack after he gets away from Bulaga.

[Fritz]

Just had an argument with a person at work. Person was dead set on leaving Bulaga alone against Mack, as McCarthy was won't to do so as not to mess with the pretty drawings he made of routes*.

I claimed BB would be fine now that he is healthy and more than a year away from ACL surgery. Coworker claimed BB can't pass protect and that is why he is a RT.

This is the reason this board can never die.

BB might have trouble with Mack but its not because he could never pass block. Its age and injury that will catch him.


*cheap shot, I know


With the rest of the Bears' pass rushers being also very talented, how about We trot a two-tight end, fullback + running back formation out there, leave them ALL in to help the offensive line block, then split Adams out wide and wait for him to shake free?

[texaspackerbacker]

That's what other teams do, Fritz, and it's exactly what the Bears hope for. Just let Rodgers' mobility defeat the pass rush, and give him a lot of receivers to choose from. I saw that work in last year's game when he basically was one-legged.

[pbmax]

With the rest of the Bears' pass rushers being also very talented, how about We trot a two-tight end, fullback + running back formation out there, leave them ALL in to help the offensive line block, then split Adams out wide and wait for him to shake free?

I am sorry but the extended offense had been mothballed after extensive negotiations between the team, the quarterback, the head coach and a special diplomatic envoy.

[mraynrand]

I am sorry but the extended offense had been mothballed after extensive negotiations between the team, the quarterback, the head coach and a special diplomatic envoy.

EO Offense - it's in the game!

[RashanGary]

I am sorry but the extended offense had been mothballed after extensive negotiations between the team, the quarterback, the head coach and a special diplomatic envoy.

:lol:

We need this game to happen. Literally, I’ve dreamed up a bazillion possible outcomes, of which I’m certain, all will be wrong on some level. But it has reached the point of just laugh about it for sure.

[Freak Out]

Pack wins...fuck the doubters.

[RashanGary]

Antonio Brown unfollowed Derek Carr and the Oakland Raiders on Instagram :lol:

Lafleur/Rodgers relationship seems better all of a sudden

[mraynrand]

:lol:

We need this game to happen. Literally, I’ve dreamed up a bazillion possible outcomes, of which I’m certain, all will be wrong on some level. But it has reached the point of just laugh about it for sure.

No kidding. Already Gary's career is over and Rodgers isn't expected to finish the game. Gotta get this started before a couple more guys are out for the season.

[pbmax]

No kidding. Already Gary's career is over and Rodgers isn't expected to finish the game. Gotta get this started before a couple more guys are out for the season.

Its been grueling offseason here in message board land.

[gbgary]

......

[gbgary]

.........

[Freak Out]

Pack wins...fuck the doubters.

Fuck yes.

[SudsMcBucky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpMBZK7GOJc

[George Cumby]

Antonio Brown unfollowed Derek Carr and the Oakland Raiders on Instagram :lol:

Lafleur/Rodgers relationship seems better all of a sudden

Winning cures a lot of ailments.