On to the next one - week 3 - Bronco game week discussion

[RashanGary]

Our defense gets its biggest QB challenge yet
Our offense has what looks like it’s most average opponent yet

I’m hoping the defense can keep up the really good performances, and the offense takes another solid step forward. If that happens, the Packers are on a trajectory that we can start getting excited about.

[Harlan Huckleby]

How is Joe Flacco not 52 years old? He seemed like an old guy back when Ray Lewis was playing. He looked good against Bears IMO.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Our defense gets its biggest QB challenge yet
Our offense has what looks like it’s most average opponent yet

I’m hoping the defense can keep up the really good performances, and the offense takes another solid step forward. If that happens, the Packers are on a trajectory that we can start getting excited about.

Defense, not offense, is supposedly the Donkeys' strength. They have two of the league's premier pass rushers and a nice secondary. Offensively, as Harlan said, Flacco is 52 years old.

What's the line for Allison receiving yards? I'll take the under.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So Flacco is a year younger than Rodgers. He seems ancient to me because he looked seasoned as a rookie. Plus he is an old school, strong-armed statue standing in pocket. Lynn Dickey.

[RashanGary]

I like Flacco’s composure better than Cousins. I could be wrong.

The Broncos secondary impressed me as far as being in good position all night. Simmons was everywhere. I think we’re an excellent matchup to run the ball against them.

Chicago defense > Minnesota defense > Denver defense

OFFENSE
3rd game of the season
Home game
No injuries on offense
Our least dominant defense played yet

They’re in a self discovery phase so i do give leeway.

Minimum I want to see another step forward in the operation/pace, some continued consistency in the run game and some passing strengths emerging even if they are still trying new things and sputtering.

[mraynrand]

I like Flacco’s composure better than Cousins. I could be wrong.

I haven't seen him play this year, but based on history you are absolutely correct.

[RashanGary]

Packers have a good enough defense and emerging run game to keep them winning while the passing offense finds its strengths. But i do want to see some pass strengths emerging.

[pbmax]

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/09/16/packers-put-raven-greene-injured-reserve-ankle-injury/2345582001/

Raven Greene is definitely on IR now and the Packers made a waiver claim:


Without Greene and Burks, the Packers' options are thin. They released Josh Jones late in training camp. The former second-round pick would have been a natural next man up. The Packers claimed cornerback Tremon Smith off waivers from the Kansas City Chiefs on Monday. Safety Ibraheim Campbell is still four weeks from being eligible to return from the physically unable to perform list.

Adrian Amos, the veteran safety signed this offseason, might be a candidate to get more snaps in the box, especially in clear passing downs. In running downs, the Packers are likely to line up linebacker B.J. Goodson beside Martinez.

The agency for Smith tweeted that the Packers claimed the second-year player Monday. Smith, a sixth-round pick out of Central Arkansas a year ago, appeared in 14 games for the Chiefs last season and played in both playoff games.

At 6 feet and 190 pounds, Smith was drafted as a cornerback but was used primarily as a kick returner by Andy Reid. He averaged 26.8 yards per kick return with a long of 97 yards in 2018. The Kansas City Star reported upon his release that Smith saw time at running back in training camp before being moved back to the secondary. He had played just one game this season and did not have any kick returns.

In his final season at Central Arkansas in 2017, Smith had five interceptions and 11 passes defensed. In his college career he had 15 interceptions and 53 pass breakups. Prior to the draft, he ran a 4.3-second 40-yard dash.

[pbmax]

My second concern (first is pass game) is we really won't know about the defense until they go up against the Eagles O.

[Zool]

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/09/16/packers-put-raven-greene-injured-reserve-ankle-injury/2345582001/

Raven Greene is definitely on IR now and the Packers made a waiver claim:

Are they tired of fair catching 9 out of 10 punts? They went from Fair Catch Cobb, to Fair Catch Davis.

[texaspackerbacker]

We should handle Denver. The biggest concern IMO is that they have the good pass rushers.

As always, I want to see the Packers pass more on early downs - and late downs too. Playing like we did early in the Vikings game is the key to a winning offense against anybody.

On D, I'm hoping to see a heavy and varied pass rush by the Packers. Without a guy like Dalvin Cook, our D probably can take a few chances.

[mraynrand]

Hey, what happened to the better discussion thread where PBmax kept asking to be deleted. Stay with us, PBmax!

[mraynrand]

Are they tired of fair catching 9 out of 10 punts? They went from Fair Catch Cobb, to Fair Catch Davis.

Well, they can't block both gunners, so there will be no returns unless they get better at that.

[pbmax]

Well, they can't block both gunners, so there will be no returns unless they get better at that.

That was the one part of ST I was not excited about.

Team is supposed to be faster, but the gunner blockers couldn't keep up and no one could catch Cook or Beebe.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Hey, what happened to the better discussion thread where PBmax kept asking to be deleted. Stay with us, PBmax!

Rabblerouser!

[Teamcheez1]

We should handle Denver. The biggest concern IMO is that they have the good pass rushers.

As always, I want to see the Packers pass more on early downs - and late downs too. Playing like we did early in the Vikings game is the key to a winning offense against anybody.

On D, I'm hoping to see a heavy and varied pass rush by the Packers. Without a guy like Dalvin Cook, our D probably can take a few chances.

I was thinking along the same lines about the pass rush, but the Broncos have zero sacks in the first two games.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I was thinking along the same lines about the pass rush, but the Broncos have zero sacks in the first two games.

They did have one, but then those meanie officials took it away. No sack for you!

[mraynrand]

They did have one, but then those meanie officials took it away. No sack for you!

Bronco Emasculated!

[Joemailman]

Rob Demovsky
ESPN Staff Writer
Tests on Darnell Savage's shin showed just a bone contusion, his agent Seth Katz told ESPN. Expect a light week of on-field activity, but the rookie starting safety is preparing as if he will play Sunday against the Broncos. The 21st pick in the draft is off to a fast start for the Packers and doesn't want to slow his momentum..

[pbmax]

M4 taking a little heat for long play calls.

Football Perspective @fbgchase
Listening to this podcast now and my first move as GM is to never let a coach have playcalls so long that there isn’t enough time to spit them out
Matt LaFleur may wind up being good but just another example of the inflexibility of HCs

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bill-barnwell-show/id1105991757?i=1000450011947

You can play it in the browser. Start at 25 minutes.

[RashanGary]

Against the massive 5-man line of Chicago, the best offense was AR from gun. Against Minnesota, the best offense was from MLFs outside-zone/PA offense. Over the course of the season it would be nice to be able to do both well. Obviously situationally, but there are whole games vs defenses that are built to stop the outside zone offense.

[bobblehead]

Against the massive 5-man line of Chicago, the best offense was AR from gun. Against Minnesota, the best offense was from MLFs outside-zone/PA offense. Over the course of the season it would be nice to be able to do both well. Obviously situationally, but there are whole games vs defenses that are built to stop the outside zone offense.

Agreed. Be balanced. Do what they don't defend. Win. Sort of like the underpants gnome playbook.

1) Call play

2) ?????

3) Sumthin sumthin Profit!!

[gbgary]

based on the last two weeks i'm thinking it's another low scoring game with a Packers W when it's all over.

[texaspackerbacker]

We certainly ought to hold Denver to a low point total. One of these weeks, the Packers are gonna break out and score a bunch. It might be this week if they learned their lesson about changing away from what worked in last week's game.

[mraynrand]

. It might be this week if they learned their lesson about changing away from what worked in last week's game.

Please, do tell. Would appreciate some specifics.

[esoxx]

Graham - DNP Has a groin

[George Cumby]

Please, do tell. Would appreciate some specifics.

You know, stuff. Because: reasons.

[Radagast]

I don't expect to see TE Jimmy Graham (groin) play vs the Broncos. I however do expect to see Marcedes Lewis step up more in this game and possibly in week 4 as well.

With Raven Green on IR, Darnell Savage Jr. (rookie/Maryland) will step up to the #1 FS position. I wish the 5' 11"/198 lb. lad all the best of success.

ILB still remains a strong concern position for me. Blake Martinez, a great LB, can't do it all himself. Who is his starting partner at ILB?

[gbgary]

Please, do tell. Would appreciate some specifics.

they got down to the bottom of the scripted plays list and panicked.

[mraynrand]

they got down to the bottom of the scripted plays list and panicked.

How do you know this?

[RashanGary]

How do you know this?

It does seem like that happened. AR and Lafleur seemed to have those 15 hashed out and agreed on. After that, it went to shit. AR seemed to be frustrated as soon as that script was over. Like already in the second quarter he was pissed off. Why? Because he doesn’t agree with the plan once the 15 was over seems to be a possibility. They reverted instantly back to deep plays. It was strange.

[RashanGary]

Once that 15 was over AR was throwing 25 yard sail routes to covered MVS and 30 yard wheel routes to covered Jones. Why, when all that short stuff was working. It was bizarre.

[Radagast]

they got down to the bottom of the scripted plays list and panicked.


https://www.propertymanagementinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/WizardofOz_cropped1.jpg

Pay no attention to that idiot from West Virginia.

:-)

[RashanGary]

It felt to me like MLF got AR to agree to the 15 based on the promise that it would set up deep stuff. As soon as the 15 was over AR was like, ok, now we run deep stuff the rest of the day. Someone forgot to get him to buy into the reality that you have to do that short stuff all game and the deep stuff comes in splashes when the defense commits hard enough to stopping the short stuff. With ARs history, it might take half a season before teams stop defending the deep stuff first.

[texaspackerbacker]

Please, do tell. Would appreciate some specifics.

Seriously? Did you watch the game? Scripted, I suppose - nothing wrong with that it that's what it takes for LaFleur to deviate from run first crap.

The first play of the game, play action and a deep throw; A good mixture of short stuff and mid range to longer the first few drives, with occasional change of pace runs mixed in. That's how we got up 21-0. Then, unscripted? We went to playing not to lose - I'd call that McCarthy football with a LaFleur twist of even more run first. We let the Vikings climb slowly back into the game, but hey, we won. I'll settle for that any day - just saying, it didn't need to be so bland and cautious after we got the lead. We know damn well Rodgers ain't gonna throw interceptions, so let him keep throwing the ball - pass first, is that specific enough for you?

[pbmax]

Last year after one of the blowups, McCarthy and Rodgers decided to script with first 15 with Rodgers input. Worked great (or at least better than the alternative) but nothing changed after that and the offense looked just as dysfunctional.

But that isn't just a personality clash. You can only get so cute in the NFL before the Defense adjusts. Especially short. Even against Rodgers, they will eventually come forward. If your receivers aren't world class, they are going to be shades of covered.

The problem is that the next strategy in these two games has been shotgun. Which isn't working well at all.

[pbmax]

Seriously? Did you watch the game? Scripted, I suppose - nothing wrong with that it that's what it takes for LaFleur to deviate from run first crap.

The first play of the game, play action and a deep throw; A good mixture of short stuff and mid range to longer the first few drives, with occasional change of pace runs mixed in. That's how we got up 21-0. Then, unscripted? We went to playing not to lose - I'd call that McCarthy football with a LaFleur twist of even more run first. We let the Vikings climb slowly back into the game, but hey, we won. I'll settle for that any day - just saying, it didn't need to be so bland and cautious after we got the lead. We know damn well Rodgers ain't gonna throw interceptions, so let him keep throwing the ball - pass first, is that specific enough for you?

First 3 drives: 10 pass, 8 runs. 2 of those throws were deep.

[yetisnowman]

Once that 15 was over AR was throwing 25 yard sail routes to covered MVS and 30 yard wheel routes to covered Jones. Why, when all that short stuff was working. It was bizarre.

To be fair Jones was open on the wheel route, the GOAT just underthrew him by a few yards causing him to appear covered. A accurate throw and that was probably a touchdown.

[pbmax]

(14:00) J.Williams left end to GB 35 for 10 yards (A.Harris).
(13:31) (No Huddle) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep middle to D.Adams.
PENALTY on MIN-X.Rhodes, Defensive Pass Interference, 25 yards, enforced at GB 35 - No Play.
(13:24) J.Williams left end to MIN 36 for 4 yards (E.Kendricks).
(12:48) A.Rodgers pass short right to G.Allison to MIN 28 for 8 yards (H.Smith, X.Rhodes). FUMBLES (H.Smith), RECOVERED by MIN-
H.Smith at MIN 28.

(11:39) A.Jones left guard to GB 35 for 5 yards (D.Hunter; L.Joseph).
(10:57) (Shotgun) A.Jones right end to GB 39 for 4 yards (D.Hunter).
(10:14) A.Jones right end to GB 39 for no gain (Jal.Johnson).
(9:36) J.Scott punts 40 yards to MIN 21

(7:57) A.Jones right tackle to GB 29 for 6 yards (E.Kendricks).
(7:16) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to M.Lewis [D.Hunter].
(7:08) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to GB 35 for 6 yards (A.Harris).
(6:30) PENALTY on GB-D.Adams, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at GB 35 - No Play.
(6:07) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to D.Adams (H.Smith).
(5:59) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to M.Valdes-Scantling to GB 27 for -3 yards (H.Smith).
(5:12) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to J.Graham [E.Griffen].
(5:06) J.Scott punts 43 yards to MIN 30, Center-H.Bradley. C.Beebe to MIN 40 for 10 yards (D.Vitale).

(7:57) A.Jones right tackle to GB 29 for 6 yards (E.Kendricks).
(7:16) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to M.Lewis [D.Hunter].
(7:08) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to GB 35 for 6 yards (A.Harris).
(6:30) PENALTY on GB-D.Adams, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at GB 35 - No Play.
(6:07) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to D.Adams (H.Smith).
(5:59) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to M.Valdes-Scantling to GB 27 for -3 yards (H.Smith).
(5:12) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to J.Graham [E.Griffen].
(5:06) J.Scott punts 43 yards to MIN 30, Center-H.Bradley.

(4:04) A.Rodgers pass short left to G.Allison pushed ob at MIN 42 for 5 yards (A.Barr).
(3:24) A.Jones left guard to MIN 34 for 8 yards (A.Harris). R14 (2:47) (Shotgun) A.Jones left tackle to MIN 30 for 4 yards (A.Barr; L.Joseph).
(2:08) A.Jones up the middle to MIN 25 for 5 yards (E.Kendricks).
(2:00) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to G.Allison to MIN 25 for no gain (J.Kearse; H.Smith).
(1:37) J.Williams left tackle to MIN 27 for -2 yards (L.Joseph).

(:51) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left.
(:45) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to J.Williams to GB 19 for -6 yards (H.Mata'afa). Timeout #2 by MIN at 00:36.
(:36) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right.
(:30) J.Scott punts 44 yards to MIN 37

After last touchdown, 6 deep passes for rest of half. 11 short throws. 9 runs.

[gbgary]

they transitioned from scripted plays (the MLF offence) to the "work-in-progress" :roll: offence and it turned into 2018.

[pbmax]

To be fair Jones was open on the wheel route, the GOAT just underthrew him by a few yards causing him to appear covered. A accurate throw and that was probably a touchdown.

Yeah, that was open. He even said in his PC he underthrew it.

[pbmax]

2nd Half!

(13:49) A.Jones left end to GB 34 for 9 yards (D.Hunter).
(13:06) A.Jones left end pushed ob at GB 33 for -1 yards (E.Wilson).
Timeout #1 by GB at 12:22.
(12:22) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to GB 45 for 12 yards (A.Harris). P15
(11:55) PENALTY on GB, Offensive Too Many Men on Field, 5 yards, enforced at GB 45 - No Play.
(11:35) J.Williams right end to GB 43 for 3 yards (E.Kendricks).
(10:56) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Williams pushed ob at GB 47 for 4 yards (T.Waynes).
(10:17) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers FUMBLES (Aborted) at GB 42, RECOVERED by MIN-H.Mata'afa at GB 42.

(9:12) A.Jones up the middle to GB 36 for 11 yards (E.Wilson). R16
(8:45) (No Huddle) A.Jones right end to GB 45 for 9 yards (D.Hunter).
(8:00) J.Williams right guard to GB 47 for 2 yards (T.Waynes). R17
(7:17) J.Williams left end to 50 for 3 yards (E.Kendricks; E.Griffen).
(6:33) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to D.Adams [D.Hunter].
(6:26) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers sacked at GB 40 for -10 yards (D.Hunter).
(5:41) J.Scott punts 48 yards to MIN 12, Center-H.Bradley, fair catch by C.Beebe.

(:51) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to A.Jones to GB 16 for 15 yards (H.Smith).
(:10) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to A.Jones.
(15:00) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to M.Valdes-Scantling (J.Kearse).
4-6-GB 20 (14:52) J.Scott punts 47 yards to MIN 33, Center-H.Bradley. C.Beebe MUFFS catch (T.Summers).

(11:48) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to J.Williams [I.Odenigbo].
(11:44) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to J.Graham to GB 28 for 6 yards (A.Harris) [I.Odenigbo].
PENALTY on GB-J.Graham, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at GB 22 - No Play.
(11:23) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers sacked at GB 4 for -8 yards (L.Joseph).
(10:36) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to J.Kumerow to GB 16 for 12 yards (X.Rhodes).
Penalty on GB-G.Allison, Offensive Holding, declined.
(10:21) J.Scott punts 59 yards to MIN 25, Center-H.Bradley. C.Beebe ran ob at MIN 40 for 15 yards (A.Amos).

(5:10) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to M.Valdes-Scantling (T.Waynes).
(5:03) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to A.Jones (E.Kendricks) [E.Wilson].
(4:57) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to M.Valdes-Scantling to GB 28 for 8 yards (J.Kearse) [E.Griffen].
(4:14) J.Scott punts 48 yards to MIN 24, Center-H.Bradley, fair catch by C.Beebe.

(3:14) A.Jones left guard to GB 23 for 2 yards (E.Kendricks).
(2:27) A.Jones right end to GB 36 for 13 yards (H.Smith; A.Harris). R19 Timeout #1 by MIN at 02:19.
(2:19) A.Jones right end to GB 40 for 4 yards (D.Hunter).
(2:00) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to GB 47 for 7 yards (A.Harris). P20 Timeout #2 by MIN at 01:53.

(1:53) A.Jones up the middle to GB 49 for 2 yards (A.Harris; E.Wilson).
Timeout #3 by MIN at 01:47.
(1:47) J.Williams right guard to 50 for 1 yard (E.Kendricks).
(1:02) J.Williams left end to MIN 47 for 3 yards (L.Joseph).
(:14) (Pass formation) PENALTY on GB, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 47 - No Play.
(:13) R.Tonyan reported in as eligible. J.Scott punts 52 yards to end zone, Center-H.Bradley, Touchback.

16 passes. 13 runs. 3 deep throws.

Conclusion: Deep ain't the problem. Its not great, especially from shotgun, but its not the big issue. It has definitely changed from Rodgers past, but its not the play calling challenge here. Plus, if you reduce deep throws more, the short game gets tougher (see all drives after 3 scores). And you might be missing the opening score.

More concerning are penalties and turnovers. Turnovers killed two drives. Penalties killed three drives. Penalties on Clark and JA helped extend the first Vikings drive for a score.

I don't think the Rodgers version of the shotgun works with this receiving group and his current accuracy. But the pass game is fine from under center.

The big play calling issue is what to do about third and long.

[gbgary]

2nd Half!......

Conclusion: Deep ain't the problem. Its not great, especially from shotgun, but its not the big issue. It has definitely changed from Rodgers past, but its not the play calling challenge here. Plus, if you reduce deep throws more, the short game gets tougher (see all drives after 3 scores). And you might be missing the opening score.

More concerning are penalties and turnovers. Turnovers killed two drives. Penalties killed three drives. Penalties on Clark and JA helped extend the first Vikings drive for a score.

I don't think the Rodgers version of the shotgun works with this receiving group and his current accuracy. But the pass game is fine from under center.

The big play calling issue is what to do about third and long.

too much shot gun!

[Radagast]

I read, I process, I laugh. Not all, but too many of you are fixated on a Rodgers/LaFleur battle of wills. Others are consumed with a run/pass battle. The truth is that too many postings don't have a leg to stand on. The concept of a "balanced" offense that is not so predictable is beyond the IQ level of most posting here.

So keep on posting, I'm laughing my ass off ! :laugh:

[mraynrand]

Seriously? Did you watch the game? Scripted, I suppose - nothing wrong with that it that's what it takes for LaFleur to deviate from run first crap.

The first play of the game, play action and a deep throw; A good mixture of short stuff and mid range to longer the first few drives, with occasional change of pace runs mixed in. That's how we got up 21-0. Then, unscripted? We went to playing not to lose - I'd call that McCarthy football with a LaFleur twist of even more run first. We let the Vikings climb slowly back into the game, but hey, we won. I'll settle for that any day - just saying, it didn't need to be so bland and cautious after we got the lead. We know damn well Rodgers ain't gonna throw interceptions, so let him keep throwing the ball - pass first, is that specific enough for you?

No. This is just nonspecific speculation.

[mraynrand]

I read, I process, I laugh. Not all, but too many of you are fixated on a Rodgers/LaFleur battle of wills. Others are consumed with a run/pass battle. The truth is that too many postings don't have a leg to stand on. The concept of a "balanced" offense that is not so predictable is beyond the IQ level of most posting here.

So keep on posting, I'm laughing my ass off ! :laugh:

Piss off

[mraynrand]

too much shot gun!

This simple explanation may be true.

But really pbmax cites TOs and close calls. All of the above, really. And attribute some to the defense. Theyre gonna make plays. Look at Minnesota - almost their entire offense was two plays. If the Packers convert on a couple more plays the game is probably more of an easy breather for fans.

I prefer the run threat to empty backfield. 3rd and long (5-10) may be an issue, but it didn’t come up that often to actually be a critical element of the game.

I don’t think they’re that far away from a well running offense. Especially because it looks like they can get better at the LG position. Concerns in this order: empty backfield/shotgun, Rodger’s tunnel vision for Adams, having seeing quick/underneath options under pressure (this last one isn’t so much for conversion of downs but for not taking sacks from holding the ball).

[pbmax]

Very nice thread here on Packer O versus Vikings. Including the suggestion that the first deep play to Adams was a check.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2019/film-room-green-bay-offense



Soaking in the game in its entirety, it feels more like LaFleur came into the contest with a fantastic game script rather than a functional game plan. Once both teams settled in, LaFleur reverted back to all the tendencies that plagued his Tennessee offense last year and did not have any answers to remedy the passing attack's constipation. If that is what LaFleur's offense is going to look like every time a decent defense settles in against them, the Packers are going to be in for a long, low-scoring season.

[pbmax]

Hmmm. If you had told me the numbers suggest the Packers blocked the pass rush better than rushed the passer so far this year, I'd have seriously doubted you.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

Top 10 DE/OLB Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Khalil Mack, Bears, 38%
2. Matt Judon, Ravens, 33%
3. Josh Allen, Jaguars, 32%
4. Marcus Davenport, Saints, 32%
5. Takkarist McKinley, Falcons, 30%
6. Brandon Graham, Eagles, 30%
7. Dante Fowler, Rams, 28%
8. T.J. Watt, Steelers, 28%
T9. Derek Barnett, Eagles, 27%
T9. Arden Key, Raiders, 27%

Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 32%
2. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 29%
3. Aaron Donald, Rams, 24%
4. Corey Peters, Cardinals, 21%
5. Michael Bennett, Patriots, 19%
6. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 18%
7. Kawann Short, Panthers, 17%
8. Ed Oliver, Bills, 16%
9. Michael Brockers, Rams, 16%
T10. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 15%
T10. Mike Daniels, Lions, 15%
T10. Daron Payne, Redskins, 15%


Top 10 OT Pass Block Win Rate

1. La'el Collins, Cowboys, 100%
2. Mike McGlinchey, 49ers, 100%
3. Greg Robinson, Browns, 97%
4. Tyron Smith, Cowboys, 97%
5. Brian O'Neill, Vikings, 97%
6. Trent Brown, Raiders, 96%
7. Nate Solder, Giants, 96%
8. Brandon Shell, Jets, 96%
T9. David Bakhtiari, Packers, 96%
T9. Jack Conklin, Titans, 96%

Top 10 OG Pass Block Win Rate

1. Joel Bitonio, Browns, 100%
2. Joe Thuney, Patriots, 100%
3. Tytus Howard, Texans, 100%
4. Will Hernandez, Giants, 98%
5. Billy Turner, Packers, 98%
6. Lane Taylor, Packers, 97%
T7. Zack Martin, Cowboys, 97%
T7. Joe Dahl, Lions, 97%
9. Larry Warford, Saints, 96%
T10. David DeCastro, Steelers, 96%
T10. Jamil Douglas, Titans, 96%

Top 10 C Pass Block Win Rate


1. Brandon Linder, Jaguars, 98%
2. Trey Hopkins, Bengals, 98%
3. Ryan Jensen, Bucs, 98%
4. Ted Karras, Patriots, Bucs, 97%
5. Rodney Hudson, Raiders, 97%
6. Mike Pouncey, Chargers, 96%
7. JC Tretter, Browns, 96%
8. A.Q. Shipley, Cardinals, 96%
9. Corey Linsley, Packers, 96%
10. Maurkice Pouncey, Steelers, 95%


Top 10 team Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Ravens, 64%
2. Falcons, 63%
3. Eagles, 61%
4. Buccaneers, 60%
5. Rams, 57%
6. Bears, 56%
7. Steelers, 56%
8. Saints, 51%
9. Cardinals, 50%
10. Seahawks, 46%


Top 10 team Pass Block Win Rate

1. Browns, 74%
2. Packers, 70%
3. Cowboys, 68%
4. Giants, 68%
T5. Colts, 67%
T5. Titans, 67%
7. 49ers, 65%
T8. Bills, 64%
T8. Patriots, 64%
10. Bears, 64%

ESPN Analytics: https://www.espn.com/analytics/

[gbgary]

Very nice thread here on Packer O versus Vikings. Including the suggestion that the first deep play to Adams was a check.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2019/film-room-green-bay-offense

yes...MLF's offense has built-in options on every play. they really sold run on that too.

[pbmax]

yes...MLF's offense has built-in options on every play. they really sold run on that too.

I don't know this guy, but I suspect this was not a check to a pass, but a protection call.

I take it back, I think it was a check.

[pbmax]

I think we will need this before the season is out.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EE1pXh0U0AE4Lfo?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Fritz]

2nd Half!

(13:49) A.Jones left end to GB 34 for 9 yards (D.Hunter).
(13:06) A.Jones left end pushed ob at GB 33 for -1 yards (E.Wilson).
Timeout #1 by GB at 12:22.
(12:22) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to GB 45 for 12 yards (A.Harris). P15
(11:55) PENALTY on GB, Offensive Too Many Men on Field, 5 yards, enforced at GB 45 - No Play.
(11:35) J.Williams right end to GB 43 for 3 yards (E.Kendricks).
(10:56) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Williams pushed ob at GB 47 for 4 yards (T.Waynes).
(10:17) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers FUMBLES (Aborted) at GB 42, RECOVERED by MIN-H.Mata'afa at GB 42.

(9:12) A.Jones up the middle to GB 36 for 11 yards (E.Wilson). R16
(8:45) (No Huddle) A.Jones right end to GB 45 for 9 yards (D.Hunter).
(8:00) J.Williams right guard to GB 47 for 2 yards (T.Waynes). R17
(7:17) J.Williams left end to 50 for 3 yards (E.Kendricks; E.Griffen).
(6:33) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to D.Adams [D.Hunter].
(6:26) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers sacked at GB 40 for -10 yards (D.Hunter).
(5:41) J.Scott punts 48 yards to MIN 12, Center-H.Bradley, fair catch by C.Beebe.

(:51) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to A.Jones to GB 16 for 15 yards (H.Smith).
(:10) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to A.Jones.
(15:00) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to M.Valdes-Scantling (J.Kearse).
4-6-GB 20 (14:52) J.Scott punts 47 yards to MIN 33, Center-H.Bradley. C.Beebe MUFFS catch (T.Summers).

(11:48) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to J.Williams [I.Odenigbo].
(11:44) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to J.Graham to GB 28 for 6 yards (A.Harris) [I.Odenigbo].
PENALTY on GB-J.Graham, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at GB 22 - No Play.
(11:23) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers sacked at GB 4 for -8 yards (L.Joseph).
(10:36) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to J.Kumerow to GB 16 for 12 yards (X.Rhodes).
Penalty on GB-G.Allison, Offensive Holding, declined.
(10:21) J.Scott punts 59 yards to MIN 25, Center-H.Bradley. C.Beebe ran ob at MIN 40 for 15 yards (A.Amos).

(5:10) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to M.Valdes-Scantling (T.Waynes).
(5:03) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to A.Jones (E.Kendricks) [E.Wilson].
(4:57) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to M.Valdes-Scantling to GB 28 for 8 yards (J.Kearse) [E.Griffen].
(4:14) J.Scott punts 48 yards to MIN 24, Center-H.Bradley, fair catch by C.Beebe.

(3:14) A.Jones left guard to GB 23 for 2 yards (E.Kendricks).
(2:27) A.Jones right end to GB 36 for 13 yards (H.Smith; A.Harris). R19 Timeout #1 by MIN at 02:19.
(2:19) A.Jones right end to GB 40 for 4 yards (D.Hunter).
(2:00) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to GB 47 for 7 yards (A.Harris). P20 Timeout #2 by MIN at 01:53.

(1:53) A.Jones up the middle to GB 49 for 2 yards (A.Harris; E.Wilson).
Timeout #3 by MIN at 01:47.
(1:47) J.Williams right guard to 50 for 1 yard (E.Kendricks).
(1:02) J.Williams left end to MIN 47 for 3 yards (L.Joseph).
(:14) (Pass formation) PENALTY on GB, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 47 - No Play.
(:13) R.Tonyan reported in as eligible. J.Scott punts 52 yards to end zone, Center-H.Bradley, Touchback.

16 passes. 13 runs. 3 deep throws.

Conclusion: Deep ain't the problem. Its not great, especially from shotgun, but its not the big issue. It has definitely changed from Rodgers past, but its not the play calling challenge here. Plus, if you reduce deep throws more, the short game gets tougher (see all drives after 3 scores). And you might be missing the opening score.

More concerning are penalties and turnovers. Turnovers killed two drives. Penalties killed three drives. Penalties on Clark and JA helped extend the first Vikings drive for a score.

I don't think the Rodgers version of the shotgun works with this receiving group and his current accuracy. But the pass game is fine from under center.

The big play calling issue is what to do about third and long.


One quick observation after reading the list of plays and results: the drop off from Aaron Jones to Jamaal Williams is a cliff or a canyon. Holy cow. Williams seems the very definition of pedestrian.

[RashanGary]

Packers have 4 of their 5 lineman in the top 5 pass block win rates and Bulaga can’t be far behind.

[gbgary]

Hmmm. If you had told me the numbers suggest the Packers blocked the pass rush better than rushed the passer so far this year, I'd have seriously doubted you.

makes the passing game failures even more frustrating.

[RashanGary]

makes the passing game failures even more frustrating.

Yep. Forced deep balls while we have the lead. Again. McCarthy and now Lafleur. We just cant find the right coach. Gonna have to start looking again.

[Radagast]

Very nice thread here on Packer O versus Vikings. Including the suggestion that the first deep play to Adams was a check.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2019/film-room-green-bay-offense


Outstanding link, more please? :tup:

[pbmax]

Yep. Forced deep balls while we have the lead. Again. McCarthy and now Lafleur. We just cant find the right coach. Gonna have to start looking again.

3 deep throws is hardly being forced. I would argue the reverse.

A better deep passing game would help immensely.

The ideas that Rodgers is not what he once was and that the WR corp is undermanned are not mutually exclusive.

[Fritz]

Yep. Forced deep balls while we have the lead. Again. McCarthy and now Lafleur. We just cant find the right coach. Gonna have to start looking again.

Damn straight. Rashan, you're one proactive poster. Why wait until The Flower suffers a loss as a head coach? Why wait to see how the offense develops? That crap is for losers and babies.

Fire the Flower, Now! We demand not only wins, but wins that look dominant!

[texaspackerbacker]

Hmmm. If you had told me the numbers suggest the Packers blocked the pass rush better than rushed the passer so far this year, I'd have seriously doubted you.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

Top 10 DE/OLB Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Khalil Mack, Bears, 38%
2. Matt Judon, Ravens, 33%
3. Josh Allen, Jaguars, 32%
4. Marcus Davenport, Saints, 32%
5. Takkarist McKinley, Falcons, 30%
6. Brandon Graham, Eagles, 30%
7. Dante Fowler, Rams, 28%
8. T.J. Watt, Steelers, 28%
T9. Derek Barnett, Eagles, 27%
T9. Arden Key, Raiders, 27%

Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 32%
2. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 29%
3. Aaron Donald, Rams, 24%
4. Corey Peters, Cardinals, 21%
5. Michael Bennett, Patriots, 19%
6. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 18%
7. Kawann Short, Panthers, 17%
8. Ed Oliver, Bills, 16%
9. Michael Brockers, Rams, 16%
T10. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 15%
T10. Mike Daniels, Lions, 15%
T10. Daron Payne, Redskins, 15%


Top 10 OT Pass Block Win Rate

1. La'el Collins, Cowboys, 100%
2. Mike McGlinchey, 49ers, 100%
3. Greg Robinson, Browns, 97%
4. Tyron Smith, Cowboys, 97%
5. Brian O'Neill, Vikings, 97%
6. Trent Brown, Raiders, 96%
7. Nate Solder, Giants, 96%
8. Brandon Shell, Jets, 96%
T9. David Bakhtiari, Packers, 96%
T9. Jack Conklin, Titans, 96%

Top 10 OG Pass Block Win Rate

1. Joel Bitonio, Browns, 100%
2. Joe Thuney, Patriots, 100%
3. Tytus Howard, Texans, 100%
4. Will Hernandez, Giants, 98%
5. Billy Turner, Packers, 98%
6. Lane Taylor, Packers, 97%
T7. Zack Martin, Cowboys, 97%
T7. Joe Dahl, Lions, 97%
9. Larry Warford, Saints, 96%
T10. David DeCastro, Steelers, 96%
T10. Jamil Douglas, Titans, 96%

Top 10 C Pass Block Win Rate


1. Brandon Linder, Jaguars, 98%
2. Trey Hopkins, Bengals, 98%
3. Ryan Jensen, Bucs, 98%
4. Ted Karras, Patriots, Bucs, 97%
5. Rodney Hudson, Raiders, 97%
6. Mike Pouncey, Chargers, 96%
7. JC Tretter, Browns, 96%
8. A.Q. Shipley, Cardinals, 96%
9. Corey Linsley, Packers, 96%
10. Maurkice Pouncey, Steelers, 95%


Top 10 team Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Ravens, 64%
2. Falcons, 63%
3. Eagles, 61%
4. Buccaneers, 60%
5. Rams, 57%
6. Bears, 56%
7. Steelers, 56%
8. Saints, 51%
9. Cardinals, 50%
10. Seahawks, 46%


Top 10 team Pass Block Win Rate

1. Browns, 74%
2. Packers, 70%
3. Cowboys, 68%
4. Giants, 68%
T5. Colts, 67%
T5. Titans, 67%
7. 49ers, 65%
T8. Bills, 64%
T8. Patriots, 64%
10. Bears, 64%

ESPN Analytics: https://www.espn.com/analytics/

That's about as big a crock of misleading stats as I've seen for quite a while - both D and O.

[Fritz]

Fake News!

[pbmax]

@BillHuberSI
Not practicing; Burks, Graham and M Adams. Savage is practicing and Hollman is practicing without red jersey. Baylis has changed to 88.

Baylis off PS.

[Fritz]

Hey, is Josh Jackson still on this team? How did last year's second-round pick get passed up by Tony Brown AND Will Redmond?

If we slip an "h" onto "Baylis," we could, you know, just call him "Lord Baylish."

And will someone please cue him in that Aaron Rodgers will like him better/throw him the ball more if he acts like he's on old crusty guy and not some punk young guy whom Aaron Rodgers cannot relate to?

[pbmax]

Hey, is Josh Jackson still on this team? How did last year's second-round pick get passed up by Tony Brown AND Will Redmond?

If we slip an "h" onto "Baylis," we could, you know, just call him "Lord Baylish."

And will someone please cue him in that Aaron Rodgers will like him better/throw him the ball more if he acts like he's on old crusty guy and not some punk young guy whom Aaron Rodgers cannot relate to?

He is practicing but was hurt in camp. You probably see more of him with Greene out.

[mraynrand]

That's about as big a crock of misleading stats as I've seen for quite a while - both D and O.
Break it down for us. Where is it wrong? Show your work. We want to believe you.

[hoosier]

2nd Half!

(13:49) A.Jones left end to GB 34 for 9 yards (D.Hunter).
(13:06) A.Jones left end pushed ob at GB 33 for -1 yards (E.Wilson).
Timeout #1 by GB at 12:22.
(12:22) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to GB 45 for 12 yards (A.Harris). P15
(11:55) PENALTY on GB, Offensive Too Many Men on Field, 5 yards, enforced at GB 45 - No Play.
(11:35) J.Williams right end to GB 43 for 3 yards (E.Kendricks).
(10:56) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Williams pushed ob at GB 47 for 4 yards (T.Waynes).
(10:17) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers FUMBLES (Aborted) at GB 42, RECOVERED by MIN-H.Mata'afa at GB 42.

(9:12) A.Jones up the middle to GB 36 for 11 yards (E.Wilson). R16
(8:45) (No Huddle) A.Jones right end to GB 45 for 9 yards (D.Hunter).
(8:00) J.Williams right guard to GB 47 for 2 yards (T.Waynes). R17
(7:17) J.Williams left end to 50 for 3 yards (E.Kendricks; E.Griffen).
(6:33) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to D.Adams [D.Hunter].
(6:26) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers sacked at GB 40 for -10 yards (D.Hunter).
(5:41) J.Scott punts 48 yards to MIN 12, Center-H.Bradley, fair catch by C.Beebe.

(:51) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to A.Jones to GB 16 for 15 yards (H.Smith).
(:10) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to A.Jones.
(15:00) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to M.Valdes-Scantling (J.Kearse).
4-6-GB 20 (14:52) J.Scott punts 47 yards to MIN 33, Center-H.Bradley. C.Beebe MUFFS catch (T.Summers).

(11:48) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to J.Williams [I.Odenigbo].
(11:44) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to J.Graham to GB 28 for 6 yards (A.Harris) [I.Odenigbo].
PENALTY on GB-J.Graham, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at GB 22 - No Play.
(11:23) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers sacked at GB 4 for -8 yards (L.Joseph).
(10:36) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short middle to J.Kumerow to GB 16 for 12 yards (X.Rhodes).
Penalty on GB-G.Allison, Offensive Holding, declined.
(10:21) J.Scott punts 59 yards to MIN 25, Center-H.Bradley. C.Beebe ran ob at MIN 40 for 15 yards (A.Amos).

(5:10) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to M.Valdes-Scantling (T.Waynes).
(5:03) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to A.Jones (E.Kendricks) [E.Wilson].
(4:57) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short left to M.Valdes-Scantling to GB 28 for 8 yards (J.Kearse) [E.Griffen].
(4:14) J.Scott punts 48 yards to MIN 24, Center-H.Bradley, fair catch by C.Beebe.

(3:14) A.Jones left guard to GB 23 for 2 yards (E.Kendricks).
(2:27) A.Jones right end to GB 36 for 13 yards (H.Smith; A.Harris). R19 Timeout #1 by MIN at 02:19.
(2:19) A.Jones right end to GB 40 for 4 yards (D.Hunter).
(2:00) A.Rodgers pass short middle to D.Adams to GB 47 for 7 yards (A.Harris). P20 Timeout #2 by MIN at 01:53.

(1:53) A.Jones up the middle to GB 49 for 2 yards (A.Harris; E.Wilson).
Timeout #3 by MIN at 01:47.
(1:47) J.Williams right guard to 50 for 1 yard (E.Kendricks).
(1:02) J.Williams left end to MIN 47 for 3 yards (L.Joseph).
(:14) (Pass formation) PENALTY on GB, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at MIN 47 - No Play.
(:13) R.Tonyan reported in as eligible. J.Scott punts 52 yards to end zone, Center-H.Bradley, Touchback.

16 passes. 13 runs. 3 deep throws.

Conclusion: Deep ain't the problem. Its not great, especially from shotgun, but its not the big issue. It has definitely changed from Rodgers past, but its not the play calling challenge here. Plus, if you reduce deep throws more, the short game gets tougher (see all drives after 3 scores). And you might be missing the opening score.

More concerning are penalties and turnovers. Turnovers killed two drives. Penalties killed three drives. Penalties on Clark and JA helped extend the first Vikings drive for a score.

I don't think the Rodgers version of the shotgun works with this receiving group and his current accuracy. But the pass game is fine from under center.

The big play calling issue is what to do about third and long.

Sacks helped kill two drives too. Two of these transcriptions are not accurate: the drive starting with 0:51 left in 3rd (Canadian Football rules appear to have been in effect) and the next one starting 11;48 left in 4th (they punted on 5th down). I suppose maybe the missing play from 0:52 ended up in 11:48.

[hoosier]

Break it down for us. Where is it wrong? Show your work. We want to believe you.

Here, I will do it for him: the refs missed a ton of holding calls when Packers were on defense. The win rate for GB pass rush should be much higher (I'm assuming holding call = win for defense?), like maybe 67-70%. Putting Browns ahead of Packers for OL win rate is a joke: everyone knows the Browns suck, and none of those goddamned leftist media assholes knows how good the Packer OL is.

[mraynrand]

Sacks helped kill two drives too. Two of these transcriptions are not accurate: the drive starting with 0:51 left in 3rd (Canadian Football rules appear to have been in effect) and the next one starting 11;48 left in 4th (they punted on 5th down). I suppose maybe the missing play from 0:52 ended up in 11:48.


https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.huffingtonpost.com%2F2009-01-27-Rosemary_woods.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[RashanGary]

Not really this weeks topic, but Per rotoworld on Twitter, Alston Jefferey and desean Jackson supposedly out till week 5. Throw Alexander or King on Agholor and then bracket Ertz over/under and we should be able to shut down Wentz.

[hoosier]

I read, I process, I laugh. Not all, but too many of you are fixated on a Rodgers/LaFleur battle of wills. Others are consumed with a run/pass battle. The truth is that too many postings don't have a leg to stand on. The concept of a "balanced" offense that is not so predictable is beyond the IQ level of most posting here.

So keep on posting, I'm laughing my ass off ! :laugh:

Jesus Christ, what a self-important pedantic post. And you got the scold in there too. Quite impressive.

[hoosier]

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.huffingtonpost.com%2F2009-01-27-Rosemary_woods.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

That the Rose Marie stretch? Is she looking for one of his Jews?

[mraynrand]

Jesus Christ, what a self-important pedantic post. And you got the scold in there too. Quite impressive.

Why must you resist Woodbuck's - I mean Radagast's - efforts to make this a better forum? We need to accept our lower IQs and learn to be better despite the disabilities we face. Perhaps Radaghast can give us more useful tips and self-help insults to keep us honest and always striving to be the best mentally retarded people we can be.

[mraynrand]

That the Rose Marie stretch? Is she looking for one of his Jews?

ouch. That's the famous picture of how she 'accidentally' erased the tapes.

[pbmax]

Its underrated now, but nothing, and I mean nothing, gave me greater relief than getting a word processor versus a typewriter.

I hated using a typewriter. Nerve wracking, even with correction ribbon and white out.

[mraynrand]

Its underrated now, but nothing, and I mean nothing, gave me greater relief than getting a word processor versus a typewriter.

I hated using a typewriter. Nerve wracking, even with correction ribbon and white out.

Couldn't agree more. I just dreaded the final type up, especially formatting the ****amn footnotes. When I first used Endnotes, I though I was in heaven.

I still remember using literal cut and past to edit drafts. Cutting the scratch paper, rearranging it and taping it back together in a roll that I would tape to my dorm room wall and type from - Not too strangely, I think I actually wrote better that way. lol

[hoosier]

ouch. That's the famous picture of how she 'accidentally' erased the tapes.

Yup. The skeptical prosecutors had her demonstrate what she would have had to do in order to erase the tapes, and that's the name they came up with :-)

[Joemailman]

https://usatpackerswire.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/screen-shot-2019-09-19-at-4.41.00-pm.png?w=768

[Joemailman]

Chris Myers and Daryl Johnston again with the call. Northwest Wisconsin gets the Viking game.

https://506sports.com/2019/03-FOX-V4.png

[Cheesehead Craig]

Jamaal Williams was a limited participant but it had nothing to do with injury.

[pbmax]

Couldn't agree more. I just dreaded the final type up, especially formatting the ****amn footnotes. When I first used Endnotes, I though I was in heaven.

I still remember using literal cut and past to edit drafts. Cutting the scratch paper, rearranging it and taping it back together in a roll that I would tape to my dorm room wall and type from - Not too strangely, I think I actually wrote better that way. lol

Absolutely have a rough draft or outline makes it better. But no way was I typing that up.

[pbmax]

Packers have the third best average starting field position (27.5) in the League. They had the Bears kick one out of bounds and they have kept the rest in the end zone.

So with the new return guy (Tremon Smith) they might start to bring the ball out more. H averaged 26.8 yards pre ko return last year.

What does it depend on? Hang time, depth of kick and their coverage unit.

So expect little change I suspect.

https://mavensports.io/packers/news/why-mess-with-do-nothing-success-KW0ASjU-RUG2lEkh60H0rA/

[pbmax]

Rand, this one is for you.

https://twitter.com/jasonjwilde/status/1175066205511716869

Answer Other and Tweet Wilde about cheating the cap :lol:

[mraynrand]

Rand, this one is for you.

https://twitter.com/jasonjwilde/status/1175066205511716869

Answer Other and Tweet Wilde about cheating the cap :lol:

Good one. But Honestly, I was Bronco fan since very little (born in Denver), so my first thought is the scummy Elway move to get there because then I had to hate them. Then I think of the loss to the Cowboys in SB XII (I lost a quarter bet in sixth grade on that one). Then I think of the Bowns losses, then "THIS ONE's FOR JOHN" - cringe every time I hear it.

BTW, I'm actually not on twitter (yet) - I just read off about 5-10 pages on politics, science and sports

[bobblehead]

16 passes. 13 runs. 3 deep throws.

Conclusion: Deep ain't the problem. Its not great, especially from shotgun, but its not the big issue. It has definitely changed from Rodgers past, but its not the play calling challenge here. Plus, if you reduce deep throws more, the short game gets tougher (see all drives after 3 scores). And you might be missing the opening score.

More concerning are penalties and turnovers. Turnovers killed two drives. Penalties killed three drives. Penalties on Clark and JA helped extend the first Vikings drive for a score.

I don't think the Rodgers version of the shotgun works with this receiving group and his current accuracy. But the pass game is fine from under center.

The big play calling issue is what to do about third and long.

In a change from Fat Mike days, I loved the play calling....as for the execution of our offense? To use a great quote: I'm in favor of it.

[bobblehead]

Hmmm. If you had told me the numbers suggest the Packers blocked the pass rush better than rushed the passer so far this year, I'd have seriously doubted you.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

Top 10 DE/OLB Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Khalil Mack, Bears, 38%
2. Matt Judon, Ravens, 33%
3. Josh Allen, Jaguars, 32%
4. Marcus Davenport, Saints, 32%
5. Takkarist McKinley, Falcons, 30%
6. Brandon Graham, Eagles, 30%
7. Dante Fowler, Rams, 28%
8. T.J. Watt, Steelers, 28%
T9. Derek Barnett, Eagles, 27%
T9. Arden Key, Raiders, 27%

Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 32%
2. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 29%
3. Aaron Donald, Rams, 24%
4. Corey Peters, Cardinals, 21%
5. Michael Bennett, Patriots, 19%
6. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 18%
7. Kawann Short, Panthers, 17%
8. Ed Oliver, Bills, 16%
9. Michael Brockers, Rams, 16%
T10. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 15%
T10. Mike Daniels, Lions, 15%
T10. Daron Payne, Redskins, 15%


Top 10 OT Pass Block Win Rate

1. La'el Collins, Cowboys, 100%
2. Mike McGlinchey, 49ers, 100%
3. Greg Robinson, Browns, 97%
4. Tyron Smith, Cowboys, 97%
5. Brian O'Neill, Vikings, 97%
6. Trent Brown, Raiders, 96%
7. Nate Solder, Giants, 96%
8. Brandon Shell, Jets, 96%
T9. David Bakhtiari, Packers, 96%
T9. Jack Conklin, Titans, 96%

Top 10 OG Pass Block Win Rate

1. Joel Bitonio, Browns, 100%
2. Joe Thuney, Patriots, 100%
3. Tytus Howard, Texans, 100%
4. Will Hernandez, Giants, 98%
5. Billy Turner, Packers, 98%
6. Lane Taylor, Packers, 97%
T7. Zack Martin, Cowboys, 97%
T7. Joe Dahl, Lions, 97%
9. Larry Warford, Saints, 96%
T10. David DeCastro, Steelers, 96%
T10. Jamil Douglas, Titans, 96%

Top 10 C Pass Block Win Rate


1. Brandon Linder, Jaguars, 98%
2. Trey Hopkins, Bengals, 98%
3. Ryan Jensen, Bucs, 98%
4. Ted Karras, Patriots, Bucs, 97%
5. Rodney Hudson, Raiders, 97%
6. Mike Pouncey, Chargers, 96%
7. JC Tretter, Browns, 96%
8. A.Q. Shipley, Cardinals, 96%
9. Corey Linsley, Packers, 96%
10. Maurkice Pouncey, Steelers, 95%


Top 10 team Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Ravens, 64%
2. Falcons, 63%
3. Eagles, 61%
4. Buccaneers, 60%
5. Rams, 57%
6. Bears, 56%
7. Steelers, 56%
8. Saints, 51%
9. Cardinals, 50%
10. Seahawks, 46%


Top 10 team Pass Block Win Rate

1. Browns, 74%
2. Packers, 70%
3. Cowboys, 68%
4. Giants, 68%
T5. Colts, 67%
T5. Titans, 67%
7. 49ers, 65%
T8. Bills, 64%
T8. Patriots, 64%
10. Bears, 64%

ESPN Analytics: https://www.espn.com/analytics/

This is wrong. I have seen Taylor lose minimum 3 battles. How many drop backs have we had?

[Fritz]

I do like the more balanced approach this last game. Aaron Jones is a weapon - give it to him on first down, and it's as likely to be second-and-five as as not, and that ain't bad.

Now, the turnovers and penalties are something to work on. I know Tex loves that Rodgers rarely throws interceptions - but what about the increasing number of fumbles Rodgers is having? Dude looks like Ahman Green before he got rid of those dumb forearm sleeves.

[pbmax]

I do like the more balanced approach this last game. Aaron Jones is a weapon - give it to him on first down, and it's as likely to be second-and-five as as not, and that ain't bad.

Now, the turnovers and penalties are something to work on. I know Tex loves that Rodgers rarely throws interceptions - but what about the increasing number of fumbles Rodgers is having? Dude looks like Ahman Green before he got rid of those dumb forearm sleeves.

Low snap was a tough one.

[pbmax]

This is wrong. I have seen Taylor lose minimum 3 battles. How many drop backs have we had?

They have a strict clock on this data pull. I think 2.5 seconds counts as a win for the OL.

[bobblehead]

They have a strict clock on this data pull. I think 2.5 seconds counts as a win for the OL.

Well hell. By that metric I think I can fall in front of Mack for the win as he has to take a second to jump over me.

[pbmax]

Well hell. By that metric I think I can fall in front of Mack for the win as he has to take a second to jump over me.

Put some stick'em on your back and your up to 1.5 seconds right there.

[pbmax]

@BillHuberSI
Graham is back for #Packers but no L Taylor, Burks or M Adams. Davante Adams is out for personal matter.

[pbmax]

@ByRyanWood
With Lane Taylor injured, Matt LaFleur said the expectation is for rookie Elgton Jenkins to be the #Packers' starting left guard. LaFleur thought Jenkins did "an excellent job" last week. "He just did his job." Perhaps a changing of the guard.

Can Metcalf play left guard?

[mraynrand]

@ByRyanWood
With Lane Taylor injured, Matt LaFleur said the expectation is for rookie Elgton Jenkins to be the #Packers' starting left guard. LaFleur thought Jenkins did "an excellent job" last week. "He just did his job." Perhaps a changing of the guard.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

[pbmax]

Leader of Men: John Elway

John Elway On His Struggling Left Tackle Garett Bolles: "Does He Know What Holding Is?"


“Well, it’s got to stop. Period. There are no more excuses for it. He’s had 26 holding penalties in the last two years and two games, so it’s got to stop. The bottom line is if he thinks he’s getting singled out, he is. He’s got to understand that. He’s got to understand what he’s doing. And that was my question [Sunday], ‘Does he know what holding is?’ Does he know what he can and can’t do?’ If he thinks he’s getting targeted, he’s got to realize he isn’t. We’ll keep working for it and he’s still a talented guy. He cannot do that because it’s beating us.”

https://deadspin.com/john-elway-on-his-struggling-left-tackle-garett-bolles-1838263300

Comments:
This has to be frustrating. Elway has yelled at him so many times that he's nearly horse.

[gbgary]

But Honestly, I was Bronco fan since very little (born in Denver)

me too (from pueblo). they were my AFL team...loved the great floyd little.

[mraynrand]

Man, Elway cannot get flushed fast enough for me. I've been patiently waiting decades for the day when he rides off into whatever sunset, never to return, so I can like the Broncos again.

[pbmax]

me too (from pueblo). they were my AFL team...loved floyd little.

This is messing me up. I assumed gbgary meant you were from GB and had moved elsewhere.

[gbgary]

This is messing me up. I assumed gbgary meant you were from GB and had moved elsewhere.

the gb IS for green bay. i'm from there in spirit only. pueblo is just like green bay though (or was back then). ethnicity (back then), size, architecture, religious, industrial, etc.

[mraynrand]

me too (from pueblo). they were my AFL team...loved the great floyd little.


Gradishar
Jackson
Alzado

Hellofalot of fun to watch play defense


I liked
Sammy Winder and Karl Mecklenburg ... but Elway ruined it all for me. Oh well...

[pbmax]

the gb IS for green bay. i'm from there in spirit only. pueblo is just like green bay though (or was back then). ethnicity (back then), size, architecture, religious, etc.

Did you get a lot of mail looking for government pamphlets?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-03-17-ls-47921-story.html

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EE7xHckWwAI7PXy?format=jpg&name=medium

[pbmax]

Bill Huber on Broncos injuries:

For Denver, starting right tackle Ja'Wuan James is out and starting cornerback Bryce Callahan is questionable. Callahan, a former standout in the slot for Chicago, was limited all week. Also questionable is starting inside linebacker Todd Davis, who has been out for a month with a calf injury. He was full participation all week and should be good to go.

[gbgary]

Did you get a lot of mail looking for government pamphlets?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-03-17-ls-47921-story.html

my mom did. she worked in the u.s. government offices there.

[pbmax]

my mom did. she worked in the u.s. government offices there.

Perfect :D

I could never forget Pueblo Colorado. Not just for Gary, but because of all those ads for booklets during TV reruns. :lol:

[pbmax]

Found it!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG03zlQiWt8

[mraynrand]

Next are we going to be treated to Ask Lesko!, the Ad Council, and offers for X-ray glasses?

[gbgary]

ha!!

[pbmax]

Next are we going to be treated to Ask Lesko!, the Ad Council, and offers for X-ray glasses?

All tremble in fear of the Government's Public Documents center.

[mraynrand]

All tremble in fear of the Government's Public Documents center.

You just need an expert to help navigate your way to a free government grant!

http://hirisepromotions.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/cap24xx-newsky721.jpg

[Joemailman]

@ByRyanWood
With Lane Taylor injured, Matt LaFleur said the expectation is for rookie Elgton Jenkins to be the #Packers' starting left guard. LaFleur thought Jenkins did "an excellent job" last week. "He just did his job." Perhaps a changing of the guard.

Can Metcalf play left guard?

Hopefully Jenkins will play well enough to make this move permanent. He was drafted for the outside zone blocking scheme.

[RashanGary]

This is a big game. Is the defense real? Can the offense take another step and show some more consistency and bounce back from adversity?

If the team takes another step forward, there is gonna be some championship contender talk starting.