Punting

[Patler]

According to the GB Press Gazette, Ryan averaged only 3.78 hang time on six punts. He won't be around long if that doesn't improve immediately.

[Bretsky]

If my memory serves me correctly his first one had next to no hang time as he shanked it and it to the right; he does have the leg. But he has a lot of refining to do to make it long term in the NFL

[OS PA]

I thought our coverage team did pretty damn well, except for the touchdown return. Did anybody else notice that when the broadcaster replayed what we did "wrong" on the return it showed two clips of our players being held, as well as Poppinga completely missing?

[Fritz]

Hey, everybody knew that Ryan wasn't going to come in and be Craig Hentrich right away. It's going to take some time. I'm of the opinion he'll get better and better, and by season's end GB will have its punter.

[MadtownPacker]

As bad as everything else was punting should be the least of our worries.

Plus he can be the backup QB. :mrgreen:

[MJZiggy]

I thought our coverage team did pretty damn well, except for the touchdown return. Did anybody else notice that when the broadcaster replayed what we did "wrong" on the return it showed two clips of our players being held, as well as Poppinga completely missing?

Yes, I saw that!! I was screaming at the TV wanting it called back and nothing!! The officials must have been lifelong Bear fans because those were not the only lousy calls.

[red]

As bad as everything else was punting should be the least of our worries.

Plus he can be the backup QB. :mrgreen:

plus the guys got some jets

did anyone else see him gaining on hester on the TD return?

i think i read were he did throw a bit in college and i know he also played wr

[woodbuck27]

As bad as everything else was punting should be the least of our worries.

Plus he can be the backup QB. :mrgreen:

plus the guys got some jets

did anyone else see him gaining on hester on the TD return?

i think I read were he did throw a bit in college and I know he also played wr

Patler:

I have chosen to edit this post in accordance with my respect for YOU as a valuable and proper in your manners poster at PACKERRATS.

I am sory for any felt by YOU attck on YOU as that isn't /wasn't my intention.Am i defensive of Jon Ryan?

YES I AM.I am that for any person "in my naure'.That's just me and PLEASE accept this as you may or not.

I have no REAL issue with you Patler. I certainly respect YOU in accordance with your merit.

NOW I EDIT as I feel is right. I am mostly going to delete the multiple use of your handle. Patler.

Jon Ryan is one of he BETTER ATHLETES on the 53 man Roster.

Of all the things that anyone could choose to point the finger at?

YOU Patler... choose punting? Hahaha One of the MOST respected of ALL posters on this Forum... decides.

HE has to go there?

punting ? BIG PROBLEM.

Good God... HELP US ALL.

You'll appreciate this. YOUR "the MAN" with the Stat's.

I compared Jon Ryan's results, in anticipation of this sort of thread being posted, finger pointing. . .at OUR punter Jon Ryan. I was counting on someone taking on OUR punter. . and pointing to the only thing a Stat. Man has.

Let's burn Jon Ryan's ass, and let's do just that... always point at hang time which should be targeted at what. . Patler??

About 4.5 seconds work for YOU?

Now and of course Jon Ryan had one of those off days. He only punted for a 45.0 yard avg.

Jon Ryan's results yesterday - regarding punting average Compared to the other team's punters, reveals that Jon Ryan isn't the BEST punter in week #1. Yet in the NFL. He may never indeed be " the BEST ", Patler. I made it that 9 punters punted for a better average (than Jon Ryan's 45.0 yard avg.)

Nine (9) punters had an average >45 yards.

Six (6) punters punted for a 47 yard Avg. or >.

Four (4) punters averaged > 49 Yards.

Three >50 yards and M. McBriar of " the Cowboys " was TOPS with an average of 53.2 yards

and Plackemeir of " the Seahawks " punted for an average of 52.6 yards.

Jon Ryan at 45.0 yard avg.

Yes, Jon Ryan has to improve. Does Jon Ryan have to = " the BEST ".

I hope not.

I truly believe that. Jon Ryan will punt in the NFL with us, or some other NFL Team. If he desires that?

Oh, by the way Patler. T.O. had an awesome day for Dallas. Yup ! It was OUR punter. Damn . . .Jon Ryan. :mrgreen: X 10

That is my Edit done patler and I apologize for my tone yesterday.I make no excuse for it it just was as it was.

I was out of line. .Patler. Not fair and misinterpreted your post and went off . . Ehh.

To be fair to me also the use of the word "immediately in the original post didn't sit well with me and it still doesn't sit well.

Jon Ryan will get it but he won't if he's CUT . .he won't " if the desired hangtime" is demanded immediately. That word is in me too pushy. :mrgreen:

I'm a Canadian Irishman, Patler. I can be change a stance or arrive at TRUTH within some reasonable time constraint. . but NEVER pushed / shoved !! I wasn't raised that way. :mrgreen:

GO PACK GO ! Packer fan faith.

[Bossman641]

Geez Woodbuck,

Why are you going off on him like that? All he did was point out that Ryan had a poor hang time average for the day, which was true.

I think he'll be a very good punter for the Packers. He certainly has the leg strength and he has shown in the past that he is able to boom long bombs with plenty of hang time. He just needs to become more consistent.

[Scott Campbell]

Geez Woodbuck,

Why are you going off on him like that?


Because he looks at Ryan like a favorite son. I doubt he'd get this fired up if Ryan was from Serbia.

I'm the same way about Alex Smith. 288 yards, 1 TD, 0 int's. Not a bad day for a guy who some think will never make it in the NFL.

[woodbuck27]

Geez Woodbuck,

Why are you going off on him like that? All he did was point out that Ryan had a poor hang time average for the day, which was true.

I think he'll be a very good punter for the Packers. He certainly has the leg strength and he has shown in the past that he is able to boom long bombs with plenty of hang time. He just needs to become more consistent.

I'm not going off on Patler, . Bossman64.

There isn't any anger in my post ...NONE. I am simply shocked that of all people Patler would point a finger at a Rookie NFL punter, when so much else is wrong with "the Green Bay Packers" that has little to do with alot of OUR players.

If you believe I went off on Patler? Then hang around and watch for what I am working up to... as YOU havn't seen nothing yet.

Punting on "the Packers" isn't something we need to point any finger at.

Compared to so much else that is really bad. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS !

[Patler]

I'm not sure why you bring up the Canadian issue, I certainly didn't and if you knew me, my family and my background you should be a bit ashamed for doing it.

If you read my posts here and on other boards I have mentioned a lot of problems with the team. I certainly have not focused on Ryan. I started this thread not to single out Ryan as yesterday's biggest problem but hopefully to discuss the whole punting issue, which has been unsettled in GB for years.

In the NFL hang time and consistency are emphasized more than distance by coaches, because lack of consistency in hangtime generally results in a big run back here and there. Often these tend to be game chagers. Probably not the case yesterday.

Hangtime has been an issue with Ryan from the start, and it could be his achilles heal this year. I posted an article a while back from one of his other tryouts in which the ST coach admired his leg strength, but commented that his technique for getting kicks off and developing hangtime could not be corrected in a single season, in all likelihood.

Which is better, kicking it 50 yards with a 20 yard return, or 35 yards and a fair catch? The more difficult question is this, which is better, 5 kicks of 45 yards with a net average of 38 and one kick returned for a TD; or 6 kicks of 40 yards and a net average of 34?

On the game yesterday, before the runback, the commentator mentioned the poor linedrive type kicks. The interesting thing is that the TD was not on a particularly bad kick.

It all comes down to a combination of distance and hangtime, to allow coverage to get downfield. Longer is not always better. Hangtime of 4.3 might be enough for a 42 or 43 yard punt, it might not be for a 50 or 55 yarder. Problems occur when the return man has a few yards to get going, get his head down and see defenders, etc.

[Bossman641]

Geez Woodbuck,

Why are you going off on him like that?


Because he looks at Ryan like a favorite son. I doubt he'd get this fired up if Ryan was from Serbia.

I'm the same way about Alex Smith. 288 yards, 1 TD, 0 int's. Not a bad day for a guy who some think will never make it in the NFL.

Not trying to change the subject here, but Smith looked real good to me yesterday. I didn't see him at all last year but I was expecting him to be a train wreck. He made some real nice throws.

Hopefully his newfound success is more a combination of the entrances of Antonio Bryant and Vernon Davis along with the improvement of Frank Gore than it is the disappearance of McCarthy's offense from SF.

[Guiness]

Patler - have to point it out...you're the first one to mention nationality in this thread - I know it's come up before, but wasn't mentioned here.

I also think Ryan will be able to punt for this team long term. I like that he's Canadian - with the limited number of Canucks in the league, it's great that a couple of them are with the Pack! - but regardless, I think he's a great find, and if he can be coached will be very good.

He did alright for his first NFL game - there's certainly room for improvement, but if that's where he starts, and gets better from there, we'll be just fine.

Can anyone who saw the game comment on this punt:
J.Ryan punts 37 yards to CHI 18, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 34 for 16 yards (T.White).

Little 37yd chip shot - if it was done right, it shoulda been fair caught. What happened?

BTW Bidwell had a decent day - and a lot of work!
J. Bidwell 8 46.5 3 59

[Patler]

Patler - have to point it out...you're the first one to mention nationality in this thread - I know it's come up before, but wasn't mentioned here.


Yes, it was mentioned in Woodbuck's posting, apparently before he edited it, and they way I read it was an implication that I was complaining about Ryan because he is Canadian..

[Pack0514]

plus the guys got some jets......

I saw this too. That was sweet, I was hoping he'd catch him. That would have been some shit if some Canadian White Boy Punter ran down the speedy Hester. Hester would have never lived that down.

[woodbuck27]

"I'm not sure why you bring up the Canadian issue, I certainly didn't and if you knew me, my family and my background you should be a bit ashamed for doing it." Patler

Comment woodbuck27:

Patler. Where in my post do I bring up "the issue of Jon Ryan's Nationality"?

I confined my concerns about your issue with Jon Ryan's punting.. to how Jon Ryan compared to the rest of the NFL punters in week one (totally in respect to punting average). Did I not?

I looked at his performance yesterday entirely based on just that. Punting average. Right or wrong, Patler?

" If you read my posts here and on other boards I have mentioned a lot of problems with the team. I certainly have not focused on Ryan. I started this thread not to single out Ryan as yesterday's biggest problem but hopefully to discuss the whole punting issue, which has been unsettled in GB for years.

In the NFL hang time and consistency are emphasized more than distance by coaches, because lack of consistency in hangtime generally results in a big run back here and there. Often these tend to be game chagers. Probably not the case yesterday." Patler

Comment woodbuck27:

I was totally involved in yesterday's game fr. a standpoint of statistical performance - for both sides, Patler. See the game thread,PLEASE.

and YES ! Jon Ryan's punting didn't do alot to hurt us.

I'm well aware of the run backs on each of Ryan's punts, as that is a concern to me. I'm a Packer fan. I'm a Canadian. What do the two have in common, as I'm NOT making an issue of that in this thread.

You Patler, raise that issue . . not me. As a Canadian am I pulling for Jon Ryan? Most certainly, but is that wrong or unnatural, Patler?

I'm pulling for Jon Ryan, as I happen to have faith he'll be a solid ST's player for the team I've always supported.The Green Bay Packers.

If Jon Ryan was punting for any other NFL team I'd be supporting him as well as I'm a fan of NFL football, and so few Canadian "football players" have and deserve a real opportunity in the NFL. He's therefore to me not just Canadian, rather a product of football in Canada and an accomplished former football player in Canadian College Football and later in the CFL.

I don't believe that Jon Ryan should necessaily remain a GREEN BAY PACKER punter, because he first and foremost is Canadian.

He will remain OUR punter if he gets the job done as we need. He is on track to do so. I supported that as a fact based on what I gleened to date from Ryan's performance, and how it compares to other NFL team punters.

He puts us to date, a long way ahead of where BJ Sander had us last season Patler.

There's alot more that I'm concerned with that impacts OUR ability to even perform at " even a decent standard as a TEAM ", than what Jon Ryan (Canadian citizen set aside ) did punting for OUR Team on Sunday, Patler.

I happen to believe he deserves a passing grade as a Rookie in his first NFL regular season game. Alot of Packers performed worse than Jon Ryan and that criticism... isn't pointed at any single Packer player.

I question the game plan. I question the play calling. I question overall performance on both sides of the ball, as it's a Team game.

" Hangtime has been an issue with Ryan from the start, and it could be his achilles heal this year. I posted an article a while back from one of his other tryouts in which the ST coach admired his leg strength, but commented that his technique for getting kicks off and developing hangtime could not be corrected in a single season, in all likelihood.

Which is better, kicking it 50 yards with a 20 yard return, or 35 yards and a fair catch? The more difficult question is this, which is better, 5 kicks of 45 yards with a net average of 38 and one kick returned for a TD; or 6 kicks of 40 yards and a net average of 34? " Patler

It is all important in punting to look at the net yard average in punting.

Didn't Jon Ryan do well there yesterday Patler from your viewpoint?

Here are the facts:

** 1st punt 1st Quarter - SCORE - BEARS 7 Packers 0:

4-1-GB26 (10:24) J.Ryan punts 45 yards to CHI 29, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 27 for -2 yards (A.Carroll).


** 2nd punt 1st Quarter - SCORE - BEARS 7 Packers 0;

4-12-GB35 (2:56) J.Ryan punts 43 yards to CHI 22, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 26 for 4 yards (B.Taylor, A.Carroll).
PENALTY on CHI-A.Peterson, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at CHI 26.


** 3rd punt 3rd Quarter - SCORE - BEARS 16 Packers 0.

4-10-CHI42 (13:01) J.Ryan punts 42 yards to end zone, Center-R.Davis, Touchback.

Bears start at their 20 yard line. . Jon Ryan fails to punt the ball inside the Bear 5 yard line. . v. Bad Ehh Patler? Rookie punter mistake?

Two out of three punts satisfactory. Ehh ?


** 4th punt 3rd Quarter - SCORE - BEARS 16 Packers 0:

4-8-GB45 (7:09) J.Ryan punts 37 yards to CHI 18, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 34 for 16 yards (T.White).

Jeeee, Jon Ryan got that one inside the 20 yard line (but...only a 37 yard punt) but Hester makes a 16 yard return?? Jon Ryan's fault Patler?


** 5th punt 4th Quarter - SCORE - BEARS 19 Packers 0:

4-15-GB34 (14:24) J.Ryan punts 50 yards to CHI 16, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester for 84 yards, TOUCHDOWN

Score rides to. . . BEARS 26 Packers 0

Now . . .was that Jon Ryan's fault Patler?


** 6th punt 4th Quarter - SCORE - BEARS 26 Packers 0:

4-9-GB35 (3:25) J.Ryan punts 53 yards to CHI 12, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 14 for 2 yards (B.Taylor, A.Carroll).

What on earth happened there Patler? A 53 yard punt and Hester only returned it for 2 yards? Maybe he was exhausted after that previous runback for a TD?

In those 6 punts by Jon Ryan. . GB Packer punter.

Four were returned for -2 yards; 2 yards; 4 yards and another for 16 yards.

One was punted into the End Zone for a TOUCHBACK. Some concern there?

One was returned 84 yards for a TOUCHDOWN !!

(by D.Hester... not a bad punt returner in the NFL )

from the BEARS 16 yard line (after a Jon Ryan 50 yard punt) with the SCORE then BEARS 19 Packers 0 @ 14:24 remaining in the 4th Quarter ...

to make the SCORE BEARS 26 Packers 0.

Yes that 84 yard return put the game out of reach Patler. Was that return by D. Hester Jon Ryans fault, Patler?

You answerd my question below **.

" On the game yesterday, before the runback, the commentator mentioned the poor linedrive type kicks. ** The interesting thing is that the TD was not on a particularly bad kick.

*** It all comes down to a combination of distance and hangtime, to allow coverage to get downfield. Longer is not always better. Hangtime of 4.3 might be enough for a 42 or 43 yard punt, it might not be for a 50 or 55 yarder. Problems occur when the return man has a few yards to get going, get his head down and see defenders, etc. " Patler

*** I'm aware of that Patler. It's purely Academic.

The ## question I have for you Patler is this:

I'll set it up:

In theory ONLY, or based on Academics. Patller.

Let's assume that OUR ST punt coverage players can run at a speed of only 4.7 second /40 yards. Now, given that's the case.

Then they cover 34 yards with 4.0 seconds of hang time. . .and if Jon Ryan can manage a 45 yard average punt. . then the distance between the punt returner and the leader of the coverage team charge, is then at the exact moment of the time the ball is in the hands of the punt returner = 45 - 34 or only 11 yards ( let's call that distance... 'X' ).

If it's a 50 yard punt then the distance 'X' = 11 yds. + 5 yds. = 16 yards

The punt returner has to catch the ball (eyes on the ball and look upfield to look for his direction of return) and if that... make the catch and decision time is ONLY 0.5 seconds. .the coverage team is now about 4 yards (actual = 4.25 yards) closer . . .

So. . .at the exact moment that the punt returner begins to move upfield. . . the coverage team is within 11 - 4 or 7 yards away and closingfrom the punt returner on a 45 yard punt with 4 seconds of hangtime.

7 + 5 = 12 yards away for the 50 yard punt and closing !

YES ! Up to speed with closing speed. The punt returner is just at that moment getting going.

So Patler. That ## question;

Do we blame the punter on a favourable return (he's only one guy), or do we blame the coverage team if the punt returner breaks one?
Do we blame one Guy or the punt coverage team?

Secondly Patler.

Do you sense that Jon Ryan isn't getting it? Do you doubt he won't? ***

Jon Ryan is no dummy Patler. :mrgreen: His Mother didn't have any Dumb kids.

*** If that's the case? Just RELAX Patler, as Jon Ryan will continue this season as OUR punter.

TRUST that . :mrgreen:

GO PACK GO ! FAN FAITH !!

[Patler]

"

Patler. Where in my post do I bring up "the issue of Jon Ryan's Nationality"?



I believe you deleted it Woodbuck, your reference to me criticizing the "Canadian punter" If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I'm sure it was there originally, when I began typing my response..

[woodbuck27]

:mrgreen:

He's ONLY ONE CANADIAN. . . DON"T BE AFRAID !! :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

"

Patler. Where in my post do I bring up "the issue of Jon Ryan's Nationality"?



I believe you deleted it Woodbuck, your reference to me criticizing the "Canadian punter" If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I'm sure it was there originally, when I began typing my response..

Sir. I certainly didn't allow that to stand too long. I am not behind a Canadian punter for any reason than I want him to represent us well. I want foremost for him to punt excellent for "the Green Bay Packers".

I TRUST that he will.

Pointing to OUR punter after yesterday's debacle is like spitting on the tired Tramp, lieing in a gutter and removing the brown paper bag and leaving him with the remainder of the bottle. :mrgreen:

I am first here a Packer fan. Am I behind this young punter as he's Canadian. . ABSOLUTELY. . . that is so. ***

Scott Campbell has it straight up on me !! I'm proud of Jon Ryan. Today he is a Green Bay Packer. His Family . .Packer fans. He is a solid young man from a solid background and he'll remain OUR punter unless he's scapegoated on.

We'll witness alot of that this season, I'm expecting.

We are a very bad football team to date in 2006. I want that to get alot better. :mrgreen:

*** ALL CANADIANS who follow the NFL would be I expect, Patler.

GO PACK GO ! PACKER FAN FAITH !!

[MJZiggy]

FYI in case you guys didn't know, Jon Ryan's dad Bob had part of a tumor removed from his leg yesterday and it will be biopsied and he's scheduled for more surgery today. My thoughts are with them and hope that the biopsy is clear.

[woodbuck27]

FYI in case you guys didn't know, Jon Ryan's dad Bob had part of a tumor removed from his leg yesterday and it will be biopsied and he's scheduled for more surgery today. My thoughts are with them and hope that the biopsy is clear.

Wow. That has to be a worry for Jon Ryan, MJZiggy.

The Jon Ryan Family, I understand from my past research, were Packer fans long before Jon Ryan had his first tryout in Green Bay early in 2006.

Thanks for that post, MJ.

Blessings with Jon Ryan's Dad and Jon Ryan's Mother and Loved one's.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Here is what I believe Patler is trying to say (certainly correct me if I'm wrong):

The Packers have lots of problems on their team. Given these shortcomings, they cannot afford to have a punter kick so that the opposition has a chance at geting a good return and thus potentially put the Packers in a deeper hole. He states that Ryan has to get better hang time to help eliminate this possibilty.

I certainly agree with Patler on the hang time issue. Ryan needs some work but has a very bright future ahead of him. I'm not saying that Ryan was the reason for the Packers loss and I don't feel Patler is saying that either. Simply pointing out where a player needs some work. If there can be threads on Poppinga, Woodson, Harris, Favre and other players, or whole units in general as to how they stunk or need to show improvement, Patler has every right to list what he feels is a concern of his.

[Fritz]

I think Jon Ryan is a bad punter BECAUSE he's Canadian.

If he had punted better, Green Bay would have won the game.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Jon Ryan is a bad punter BECAUSE he's Canadian.

If he had punted better, Green Bay would have won the game.

Hilarious!

[red]

I think Jon Ryan is a bad punter BECAUSE he's Canadian.

If he had punted better, Green Bay would have won the game.

LOL

that guys got straight shooter written all over him

[woodbuck27]

As bad as everything else was punting should be the least of our worries.

Plus he can be the backup QB. :mrgreen:

plus the guys got some jets

did anyone else see him gaining on hester on the TD return?

i think i read were he did throw a bit in college and i know he also played wr

He was a slotback and he can throw the ball as well.

In one game up here he scored 26 points. .not Fantasy Football points. :mrgreen:

I would be really surprised if there are 8 better athletes on the 53-Man Roster.

Jon Ryan. . .count your Blessings Packer fans. . .

Patler. .what do you mean using the term he has to improve. ."immediately" or he's gone?

Are . . .you OUR GM. .Ted Thompsn.

Give that a rest please.

[woodbuck27]

Here is what I believe Patler is trying to say (certainly correct me if I'm wrong):

The Packers have lots of problems on their team. Given these shortcomings, they cannot afford to have a punter kick so that the opposition has a chance at geting a good return and thus potentially put the Packers in a deeper hole. He states that Ryan has to get better hang time to help eliminate this possibilty.

I certainly agree with Patler on the hang time issue. Ryan needs some work but has a very bright future ahead of him. I'm not saying that Ryan was the reason for the Packers loss and I don't feel Patler is saying that either. Simply pointing out where a player needs some work. If there can be threads on Poppinga, Woodson, Harris, Favre and other players, or whole units in general as to how they stunk or need to show improvement, Patler has every right to list what he feels is a concern of his.

I certainly agree with you. :mrgreen:

Jon Ryan isn't going to get this or that "immediately" and that is unfair to all that Jon Ryan has done to date... to expect immediate anything... but harder work and an objective to fine tune his punting to incorporate better hangtime, of course.

As Jon Ryan will... in TIME ( I trust ).

NOT immediately.

GO PACK GO. PACKER FAN FAITH .

[woodbuck27]

Revised to My first post addressing Patler's original post.

Bump !