the decline of aaron rodgers

[red]

in 2016 (pre right collar bone injury), he was 4th in QB rating (104.2), 4th in yards (4,428), and #1 in TDs (40), 10th in comp % (65.7)

this year, after 3 games, 13th in QB rating (96.5), 15th in yards, 13th in tds, 22nd in comp % (61.3)

now you might be saying, "but red, we've played against 2 really good defenses". thats true, but....

in 2018

he was 13th in QPR (97.6), 6th in yards (4,412), 13th in TDs (25), 29th in comp% (62.3)

pre injury and post injury are 2 different QBs

[RashanGary]

Zero turnovers is the only saving grace for him so far. We’re spoiled with that. I’ve only missed 3 games in the first two weeks. I’ve watched every other game. We’re spoiled with the ball security. It’s a really big deal. It’s a big part of why we’re 3-0

But yeah, he’s not quite back to who he was

[wist43]

Yeah, I think he's declined to the point where it's safe to say our window has closed. We're not contenders.

He's a JAG now - a JAG with one hell of a primadonna bad attitude.

[pbmax]

Yeah, I think he's declined to the point where it's safe to say our window has closed. We're not contenders.

He's a JAG now - a JAG with one hell of a primadonna bad attitude.

Are you back to being excited about Gary now?

[mraynrand]

Yeah, I think he's declined to the point where it's safe to say our window has closed. We're not contenders.

He's a JAG now - a JAG with one hell of a primadonna bad attitude.

lol

[Joemailman]

Yeah, I think he's declined to the point where it's safe to say our window has closed. We're not contenders.

He's a JAG now - a JAG with one hell of a primadonna bad attitude.

An alternative view: Rodgers knows he can't do what he did in 2011 and 2014. That's why he's always talking up this defense. He knows that if he doesn't turn the ball over, this defense is good enough that he doesn't have to throw 45 TD passes for this team to win. He remembers that 2010 wasn't one of his best years, but the Packers won the Super Bowl because they had a great defense.

During the games he sometimes gets frustrated that the offense isn't doing better. But if you listen to his post-game PC's, he seems pretty happy with where this team is.

[call_me_ishmael]

An alternative view: Rodgers knows he can't do what he did in 2011 and 2014. That's why he's always talking up this defense. He knows that if he doesn't turn the ball over, this defense is good enough that he doesn't have to throw 45 TD passes for this team to win. He remembers that 2010 wasn't one of his best years, but the Packers won the Super Bowl because they had a great defense.

During the games he sometimes gets frustrated that the offense isn't doing better. But if you listen to his post-game PC's, he seems pretty happy with where this team is.

Interesting perspective. The part where this thought breaks down for me is when I see Rodgers try to be super man and hold the ball for so long. I would guess, without any data to back it up, that the quarterbacks that extend the test of time get the ball out quicker and quicker (especially on second and third downs) as they age, where as with Rodgers it seems to be largely the opposite.

[texaspackerbacker]

How many wins is it gonna take before all this stupid shit fades away?

We could go undefeated, and some dumbasses would still be whining about Rodgers.

[RashanGary]

During the games he sometimes gets frustrated that the offense isn't doing better. But if you listen to his post-game PC's, he seems pretty happy with where this team is.

Listening to his pressers gives me hope that he’s not as bad as he seems. But I don’t know, it’s two full coaching staffs in a row that can’t seem to coach him at all. Maybe the problem isn’t the coaches.

[pbmax]

Listening to his pressers gives me hope that he’s not as bad as he seems. But I don’t know, it’s two full coaching staffs in a row that can’t seem to coach him at all. Maybe the problem isn’t the coaches.

Rodgers isn't at his best. The offense isn't playing great. But this is clearly LaFleur's offense. Most of the deep shots have come off play action. They are obviously running more. Lot of new sets and motion. They are under center a lot. I don't think the question is is whether he can be coached at all.

Its a question of what exactly he doesn't like about those second half calls. He does't start the game mad about what they put on the script. Does he think he can't make those throws? Does he think the protection for that set won't hold up? Is he mad they aren't targeting Adams more? Wrong play against the defense called?

Whatever the actual fact, I suggest doing whatever they are doing with the first 15 plays. Works better.

I did think the script looked more balanced between under center and shotgun. They even ran out of shotgun. That part seems OK.

[wist43]

When he air mailed the pass over Allison's head that's what did it for me. The age, the injuries have caught up to him.

I think we could have. And should have won more Superbowls with Ridgers, but TT and MM pushed those years away. If we had a GM like Gute 5 years ago, I think we could have won at least 1 more.

[mraynrand]

When he air mailed the pass over Allison's head that's what did it for me. The age, the injuries have caught up to him.

I think we could have. And should have won more Superbowls with Ridgers, but TT and MM pushed those years away. If we had a GM like Gute 5 years ago, I think we could have won at least 1 more.

lol

You could be right. Gute probably upgrades Bostick

[Tony Oday]

It takes AR 4 games to be himself.

[RashanGary]

I did think the script looked more balanced between under center and shotgun. They even ran out of shotgun. That part seems OK.


The question comes, is it better to be really great at one thing or pretty good at a bunch of things? I think Lafleur offense gets the OL and RBs and TEs more engaged in playing downhill and hitting the defense. I think it builds a full team atmosphere and empowers a whole bunch of guys.

ARs offense empowers Aaron. He’s in complete control of everything. But in some situations it really works.

There are defenses that just smother the outside zone offense. So being able to flip script is really helpful. So it’s nice to have.

Seeing Aaron bitch about the joint practices cuz it wasn’t helpful for him really struck a bad chord with me. You don’t want your leader to be so damn selfish.

[RashanGary]

Lafleur is building a team atmosphere. AR can’t handle it.

[pbmax]

The question comes, is it better to be really great at one thing or pretty good at a bunch of things? I think Lafleur offense gets the OL and RBs and TEs more engaged in playing downhill and hitting the defense. I think it builds a full team atmosphere and empowers a whole bunch of guys.

ARs offense empowers Aaron. He’s in complete control of everything. But in some situations it really works.

There are defenses that just smother the outside zone offense. So being able to flip script is really helpful. So it’s nice to have.

Seeing Aaron bitch about the joint practices cuz it wasn’t helpful for him really struck a bad chord with me. You don’t want your leader to be so damn selfish.


He wasn't being entirely selfish. They stuck to a vanilla scheme, couldn't practice more advanced stuff or do an install. Gute and Flower said this helped evaluate the bottom half of the roster, which is great. But with less and less practice and fewer starters playing in preseason, it did not help them get ready for the season.

[pbmax]

Lafleur is building a team atmosphere. AR can’t handle it.

The team needs to be more talented on offense. Scantron was 6 for 10 on targets. Allison was 1 for 3. That doesn't count the 2 bad throws.

Its good if the Titanic keeps its dining room beautiful and clean. But what they need to succeed is an earlier warning and more lifeboats.

One of the offseason critiques you offered of Rodgers is that he was too ego driven to allow the team to run. Now that has been disproven, you are deadset on driving the ego argument onto another hill.

[mraynrand]

Lafleur is building a team atmosphere. AR can’t handle it.

This goes too far. Rodgers is singing the defenses’ praises. Dude gets hot when the offense isn’t working. That’s always been true. This will likely continue the whole season, even if they keep winning simply because they just don’t have top flight talent across the offense. Rodgers will struggle with that inefficiency and also have to deal with his own decline which will also prevent him running any consistent EO. Hope for a top 5-10 offense rests on staying healthy and a few key players improving in the offense, including Rodgers. Run blocking, slot/TE/checkdown and Exxon being consistent 2 might be enough.

[run pMc]

Agree with pb and rand. I think the offense is still very uneven. I thought there were a few series where it looked like Rodgers basically threw the ball away, and I found myself wondering why GB couldn't string together long drives like DEN was. I think aside from Rodgers, Adams and maybe Jones there isn't much on the offense that scares teams. Until a legit #2 receiving weapon emerges -- Jimmy Graham is hurt and can't separate from coverage or block at this point -- they are going to have trouble consistently moving the ball.
I'd expect a lot of uneven performances from MVS -- he's a 2nd year Day 3 pick -- but I expected more out of Allison. Seemed like he had good chemistry with Rodgers in the past, and he's been very pedestrian. I'd like to see them play Tonyan over Graham, rotate Kumerow in for Allison more, and run some plays that get Vitale on an ILB. He's not a thumper FB type, but dude can run a 4.6 and catch well. This offense is supposed to scheme players open, and either they aren't open, or it's back on Rodgers. Yesterday was a mix of both (the overthrow to Allison was a bad one), but it seemed like it was more on the receivers.

I got the impression Rodgers knows they aren't playing well on offense, and that includes his own performance. I'd expect he's motivated to get better and prove that he can play within a scheme and not be a coach killer.

[gbgary]

It takes AR 4 games to be himself.

despite moments of brilliance he hasn't been himself since...2016 (2015 wasn't great). the rodgers we've seen since then is his true self now. he might be able to change his game but thus far he hasn't shown he wants to the way brady and brees have. holding the ball, looking past open guys, inaccuracy, throw-aways, and sacks, will continue until he does. better weapons will help some. an attitude adjustment/realization of his current skills would help more.

[pbmax]

2015 was a tire fire at times. It was definitely a precursor of what was to come.

Was that the year Jordy was hurt? James "Hoody" Jones comeback year?

[pbmax]

Healthier Rodgers, worse offense. I think you know what we need to do.



https://mavensports.io/packers/news/when-if-ever-will-offense-catch-greatness--z1rjn3leUa5awPO0-aTng/

Same article: https://mavensports.io/packers/news/when-if-ever-will-offense-catch-greatness--z1rjn3leUa5awPO0-aTng/


Is it Rodgers, a 35-year-old quarterback who dealt with three serious injuries over the previous six seasons?

2018-Knee
2017-Collarbone
2016-
2015-
2014-Calf
2013-Collarbone

Am I wrong?

[Teamcheez1]

The decline of Ben Roethlisberger.
The decline of Drew Brees.
The decline of Tom Brady.
The decline of Matt Ryan.
The decline of Matthew Stafford.
The decline of Joe Flacco.
The decline of Philip Rivers.
The decline of Kirk Cousins.
The decline of Cam Newton.
The decline of Nick Foles.

Where would you like to stop?

[pbmax]

I think Tom Brady just chews stem cell gum.

[RashanGary]

The team needs to be more talented on offense. Scantron was 6 for 10 on targets. Allison was 1 for 3. That doesn't count the 2 bad throws.

Its good if the Titanic keeps its dining room beautiful and clean. But what they need to succeed is an earlier warning and more lifeboats.

One of the offseason critiques you offered of Rodgers is that he was too ego driven to allow the team to run. Now that has been disproven, you are deadset on driving the ego argument onto another hill.

AR seems to be batting himself. He says the right things for a while but his actions don’t line up.

[gbgary]

I think Tom Brady just chews stem cell gum.

lol

[RashanGary]

2015 was a tire fire at times. It was definitely a precursor of what was to come.

Was that the year Jordy was hurt? James "Hoody" Jones comeback year?

That was the year Sitton/Tretter/Lang stymied the interior DL of whoever we faced and AR got to step up, step back, step up until someone was open. AR likes waiting so it worked for him.

[RashanGary]

I think Tom Brady just chews stem cell gum.


He’s probably found some way to cheat a little

[mraynrand]

Can I make a plea that Terrance Howard be hired as "Receiver route design specialist?" Honestly, there is no way dbs will be able to match up ever again.

[Joemailman]

When he air mailed the pass over Allison's head that's what did it for me. The age, the injuries have caught up to him.

I think we could have. And should have won more Superbowls with Ridgers, but TT and MM pushed those years away. If we had a GM like Gute 5 years ago, I think we could have won at least 1 more.

It was just 6 seasons ago that the Ravens won a Super Bowl with Joe Flacco at QB. Rodgers is as good or better now than Flacco was then. And this Packer defense is better than that Raven defense was. The window isn't closed. Hell, with this defense it's more open now than it has been for a while.

[pbmax]

It was just 6 seasons ago that the Ravens won a Super Bowl with Joe Flacco at QB. Rodgers is as good or better now than Flacco was then. And this Packer defense is better than that Raven defense was. The window isn't closed. Hell, with this defense it's more open now than it has been for a while.

Keep hope alive!

[Joemailman]

Keep hope alive!

She looks alive to me.

https://cf-images.us-east-1.prod.boltdns.net/v1/static/4137224154001/3830f0f3-e4b4-4e9b-aefa-325e78728d31/b7534a93-b2ae-4a41-b853-7bc749b15627/1280x720/match/image.jpg

[pbmax]

^ Take it to FYI!

On second thought, take it to the Garbage Can fanfic section.

[Bretsky]

Are you back to being excited about Gary now?


WISTY IS NOW A FACKRELL FAN !

[wist43]

WISTY IS NOW A FACKRELL FAN !

WHAT!!! :whaa: :whaa: :whaa:

[Rutnstrut]

I keep hearing people say the new offense needs time. Doesn't Dallas have a new offense? Dak and their O seems to be doing pretty good.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Cowboys are gravitating away from run-first - and they have arguably the best RB and the best O Line in the league. That ought to tell people something.

[pbmax]

I keep hearing people say the new offense needs time. Doesn't Dallas have a new offense? Dak and their O seems to be doing pretty good.

Kellen Moore player for them didn’t he? I think it’s same offense, but some new designs.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yes, Kellen Moore played for them - a little used back up QB. He was a college QB at Boise State, and his way of handling the offense reflects the Boise stuff a lot more than the Linehan run-first stuff. Naturally, with that outstanding O Line and Ezekial Elliot, they still are going to do a lot of running - just not as much as before.

[pbmax]

Aaron Schatz
Most shotgun/pistol through Week 3:
BAL 96%
ARI 96%
PIT 88%
PHI 85%
SEA 84%

Least shotgun/pistol through Week 3:
MIN 20%
SF 35%
LAR 38%
TB 45%
GB 49%

[pbmax]

So Rodgers might be influencing 10% of snaps. :D

[RashanGary]

Matt Nagy is shown all over Twitter telling Trubisky to “shut the fuck up, right now” in the most aggressive way. I wish Nagy was our coach.

[RashanGary]

Someone needs to tell AR to shut the fuck up.

[mraynrand]

Matt Nagy is shown all over Twitter telling Trubisky to “shut the fuck up, right now” in the most aggressive way. I wish Nagy was our coach.

“He’s out there smiling and giggling out at practice and having a good time and that, to me, is what’s important,” - Matt Nagy

[Freak Out]

AR can still make the crazy throws....but he gets lazy and makes a few horrid throws as well. I just don't think he has the drive he once did.

[mraynrand]

AR can still make the crazy throws....but he gets lazy and makes a few horrid throws as well. I just don't think he has the drive he once did.

welcome to life. Or maybe he just needs to giggle more.

[pbmax]

AR can still make the crazy throws....but he gets lazy and makes a few horrid throws as well. I just don't think he has the drive he once did.

So playing with a bad knee last year was just a goof?

[Fosco33]

He’s fueled by doubters. Always has been. Maybe ppl doubting him now is his fuel? R e l a x

[red]

He’s fueled by doubters. Always has been. Maybe ppl doubting him now is his fuel? R e l a x

so we're fueling him towards suckage?

[Freak Out]

So playing with a bad knee last year was just a goof?

It was a mistake.

[gbgary]

AR can still make the crazy throws....but he gets lazy and makes a few horrid throws as well. I just don't think he has the drive he once did.

then, if true (which i doubt), extending him was a bigger mistake than i ever imagined.

[Bretsky]

then, if true (which i doubt), extending him was a bigger mistake than i ever imagined.


I don't know what the H is going on with AROD

He's missing some passed that are inexcusable.

And the second spike of the ball into the ground early on showed obvious frustration.

I'm losing faith in AROD and I don't have faith in Matty. Not a good combo

[mraynrand]

I don't know what the H is going on with AROD

He's missing some passed that are inexcusable.

And the second spike of the ball into the ground early on showed obvious frustration.

I'm losing faith in AROD and I don't have faith in Matty. Not a good combo

Don't lose faith over a couple of blown plays. If fans did this across the board, at best all you'd have left is the Patriots playing scrimmages against themselves.

[bobblehead]

He wasn't being entirely selfish. They stuck to a vanilla scheme, couldn't practice more advanced stuff or do an install. Gute and Flower said this helped evaluate the bottom half of the roster, which is great. But with less and less practice and fewer starters playing in preseason, it did not help them get ready for the season.

At 3-0 I would hardly say they aren't prepared.

AR should be happy that his offense has kept him off his backside a lot more. His OL get to actually hit the DL instead of being punching clowns for Khalil Mack. I think he hit the turf exactly one time last game. Running the ball has a trickle down effect.

This isn't the same AR as 2012, but it doesn't have to be. This is still a savvy AR who can get free play TD's. He can not turn the ball over and ruin field position. He can make some smart plays and stay healthy and keep Timothy Boyle off the field. We can win an Owl with this guy, so lets just accept that he won't carry a team, but we actually never won an Owl when he WAS carrying the team.

[bobblehead]

The Cowboys are gravitating away from run-first - and they have arguably the best RB and the best O Line in the league. That ought to tell people something.

They LITERALLY just had 2 100 yard rushers in the same game!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I didn't say they had gone all in for the passing game, but they gained more yards passing, and a lot of that running, especially by Pollard, was after they had the game in the bag against a weak team.

[pbmax]

At 3-0 I would hardly say they aren't prepared.

AR should be happy that his offense has kept him off his backside a lot more. His OL get to actually hit the DL instead of being punching clowns for Khalil Mack. I think he hit the turf exactly one time last game. Running the ball has a trickle down effect.

This isn't the same AR as 2012, but it doesn't have to be. This is still a savvy AR who can get free play TD's. He can not turn the ball over and ruin field position. He can make some smart plays and stay healthy and keep Timothy Boyle off the field. We can win an Owl with this guy, so lets just accept that he won't carry a team, but we actually never won an Owl when he WAS carrying the team.

Not sure that has anything to do with the Texans, but OK. Rodgers did a lot of dodging, especially of Chubb.

More importantly, did anyone actually keep eyes on Jenkins? I honestly thought he got trashed once on a run, but never saw the replay, and did not notice him the rest of the game.

[gbgary]

I didn't say they had gone all in for the passing game, but they gained more yards passing, and a lot of that running, especially by Pollard, was after they had the game in the bag against a weak team.

these first 3 games for dal they've guys running wide open down field. their passing yards are way up. last game they also had two guys run for over a hundred. if they've gone from 60/40 to 50/50 on their run/pass ratio that's a good thing for them and shouldn't be looked upon as a negative.

[bobblehead]

I didn't say they had gone all in for the passing game, but they gained more yards passing, and a lot of that running, especially by Pollard, was after they had the game in the bag against a weak team.

And nobody has said you should run 60% of the time. You need to run enough and effectively is all I have ever said.

As long as this is the ARod thread though, I'll add a critique. The TE seam I saw in preseason has been non existent through 3 games. Its definitely time to blame it on ARod instead of fat mike.

I watched M4 in Tenn last year. Marriota hit RB/TE often. Too much. Its part of the offense. ARod had better adjust.

[Radagast]

And nobody has said you should run 60% of the time. You need to run enough and effectively is all I have ever said.

As long as this is the ARod thread though, I'll add a critique. The TE seam I saw in preseason has been non existent through 3 games. Its definitely time to blame it on ARod instead of fat mike.

I watched M4 in Tenn last year. Marriota hit RB/TE often. Too much. Its part of the offense. ARod had better adjust.


I like Robert Tonyan Jr., perhaps he will step up and be the man. Oh, by the way, what happened to that ball of fire TE Sternberger that GB drafted with their 3rd round pick? ( 75th player drafted in 2019)


:pc:

[texaspackerbacker]

You run-first adherents had a good look at run-first by Denver last week. Is that really what you are hoping for?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for run-first if you are the NFL equivalent of the Wisconsin Badgers. However, I don't see any O Line, not even the Cowboys that is that dominant. Certainly, the Packers O Line is not even close. And that's not even mentioning the fact that we have the GOAT QB whose supposed decline is basically just the bullshit of fools and ingrates.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You run-first adherents had a good look at run-first by Denver last week. Is that really what you are hoping for?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for run-first if you are the NFL equivalent of the Wisconsin Badgers. However, I don't see any O Line, not even the Cowboys that is that dominant. Certainly, the Packers O Line is not even close. And that's not even mentioning the fact that we have the GOAT QB whose supposed decline is basically just the bullshit of fools and ingrates.

Word.

Run-first not only distorts Rodgers' 'fragile' rhythm, it makes him look like, gasps, a fucking game-manager.

[run pMc]

You run-first adherents had a good look at run-first by Denver last week. Is that really what you are hoping for?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for run-first if you are the NFL equivalent of the Wisconsin Badgers. However, I don't see any O Line, not even the Cowboys that is that dominant. Certainly, the Packers O Line is not even close. And that's not even mentioning the fact that we have the GOAT QB whose supposed decline is basically just the bullshit of fools and ingrates.

I see things differently, but that's ok. Rodgers has declined. Statistically 2016 was his last good year, but I'd argue it was 2014.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00.htm

He's much closer to a 62% passer than a 68% passer these days, and his QB Rating, etc. have all been in decline. His 30's have not been kind in comparison to his younger years. You can blame that on the rest of the offense, but he's not elevating the team like he used to. If he ain't as good as he used to be, by definition he's in decline.
Also, the Cowboys have a pretty good OL and RB to run the ball with should they choose to. More efficient per play to pass vs. run, but I like the idea of mixing up pass and run from the same looks to confuse a defense. Someone as smart as Rodgers could do damage with that.

[gbgary]

Word.

Run-first not only distorts Rodgers' 'fragile' rhythm, it makes him look like, gasps, a fucking game-manager.

i heard his "game manager" quote and i immediately thought winning should be the "high standard" they have around 1265...not style.

[mraynrand]

'run first' is missing the point. You have to have the ability to run, a real threat to run, to better protect Rodgers in his dotage and to set up play action. First, last, or in between, never mind, but the run game actually has to work. How many of you really think the guy can scramble around back there, be effective, and survive a bunch of hits anymore?

[gbgary]

'run first' is missing the point. You have to have the ability to run, a real threat to run, to better protect Rodgers in his dotage and to set up play action. First, last, or in between, never mind, but the run game actually has to work. How many of you really think the guy can scramble around back there, be effective, and survive a bunch of hits anymore?

i've no problem with run first...as long as the vast majority of the passing starts from under center too. that's where the unpredictability of the O, any O, starts...even if the run doesn't work well.

[Joemailman]

'run first' is missing the point. You have to have the ability to run, a real threat to run, to better protect Rodgers in his dotage and to set up play action. First, last, or in between, never mind, but the run game actually has to work. How many of you really think the guy can scramble around back there, be effective, and survive a bunch of hits anymore?

Are you seriously suggesting that a nearly 36 year old QB who has broken both collarbones and played through serious calf and knee injuries might be past his prime?

[texaspackerbacker]

'run first' is missing the point. You have to have the ability to run, a real threat to run, to better protect Rodgers in his dotage and to set up play action. First, last, or in between, never mind, but the run game actually has to work. How many of you really think the guy can scramble around back there, be effective, and survive a bunch of hits anymore?

No disagreement with what you say. I'd say, the Packers certainly do have pretty good ability to run the ball - as a change of pace or threat at least. As for running to "better protect Rodgers in his dotage", I'd say running the ball a lot just wastes downs. Sure, you need to run on early downs occasionally, but it shouldn't be often with our O Line. The best protection for the QB is the QB's own mobility, and I don't think many are seriously talking "decline" on that front. Surviving hits is more luck than anything else, but avoiding the hits by throwing the ball away (as opposed to unloading it quick into a crowd) tends to tip the scales in Rodgers' favor. That probably has a lot to do with what some people see as decline in throwing skill.

You don't think the guy can still scramble around and be effective? Just watch hahahahaha.

[RashanGary]

You and AR need a room, Tex. This public affection is awkward.

[call_me_ishmael]

Wentz was better tonight - although Rodgers looked better than he has in recent history.

[pbmax]

Are you seriously suggesting that a nearly 36 year old QB who has broken both collarbones and played through serious calf and knee injuries might be past his prime?

He could be. But here is what I know:

The WR corp sucks compared to either 2014 or 2016.

So you know, Rodgers might not be Rodgers anymore, but the WR are the Seahawks now.

[call_me_ishmael]

Do we think Ted is still workin' for 'em? Maybe he can get it up for one more weekend and bring us one last slew of receivers before he retires.

[texaspackerbacker]

Wentz was better? Our receivers suck? What game were some of you watching?

Every fucking pass play, our pathetic O Line was like a damn open door. An immobile QB would have been sacked literally 15 or 20 times. And that run game that some fools crave, it was basically nonexistent. thanks to the stinking O Line. And that was highlighted by how horrible our own D Line was at stopping runs. I was afraid of that going in after the Broncos expose our run D last week. All of that O Line suckage, and Rodgers damn near won the game anyway ....... yet idiots in here piss and moan about him and claim other QBs are better. Sheeeeeesh!

[MadScientist]

Wentz was better? Our receivers suck? What game were some of you watching?

Every fucking pass play, our pathetic O Line was like a damn open door. An immobile QB would have been sacked literally 15 or 20 times. And that run game that some fools crave, it was basically nonexistent. thanks to the stinking O Line. And that was highlighted by how horrible our own D Line was at stopping runs. I was afraid of that going in after the Broncos expose our run D last week. All of that O Line suckage, and Rodgers damn near won the game anyway ....... yet idiots in here piss and moan about him and claim other QBs are better. Sheeeeeesh!

I had high hopes that getting rid of Campen would help things considerably. But they are even worse. Rodgers may not be as good as he was a few years ago, but the o-line is just flat out bad.

[gbgary]

despite moments of brilliance he hasn't been himself since...2016 (2015 wasn't great). the rodgers we've seen since then is his true self now. he might be able to change his game but thus far he hasn't shown he wants to the way brady and brees have. holding the ball, looking past open guys, inaccuracy, throw-aways, and sacks, will continue until he does. better weapons will help some. an attitude adjustment/realization of his current skills would help more.

rodgers said the dal game was his best this season. no doubt it was. from his comments during his presser after that game, that he's "accomplished a lot in this league statistically. i just want to win now", maybe he's come to that realization about himself and the new O that he's been bucking since day one. it's big if true. maybe it was from watching game film. maybe not having adams accelerated it. maybe it was MLF (i personally hope it was MLF). i'm not holding my breath but maybe there's been a turning point met. maybe he's seen that giving the O a chance, as it's designed, has benefits for him and the team.

[RashanGary]

rodgers said the dal game was his best this season. no doubt it was. from his comments during his presser after that game, that he's "accomplished a lot in this league statistically. i just want to win now", maybe he's come to that realization about himself and the new O that he's been bucking since day one. it's big if true. maybe it was from watching game film. maybe not having adams accelerated it. maybe it was MLF (i personally hope it was MLF). i'm not holding my breath but maybe there's been a turning point met. maybe he's seen that giving the O a chance, as it's designed, has benefits for him and the team.

Glad to see you saw some hope too. I’ve seen it slowly coming in spurts but that presser really solidified it. He was impressive. Played as good of team football (not stat football) as a QB can play.

I know he really gets along well with Linsley, Bakh, Bulaga and Turner. Bulaga is the first guy I’ve heard talking about how much the OL wants to run block. He’s been talking about it for weeks. I think his OL buddies might have talked him into leaning on them and letting them tee off on DL. I think Lafleur was a part, but I think the OL had a big influence too.

I could be wrong, just listening to Bulaga though, I think some guys he’s close to really wanted this, and I think AR cares about his dudes and just now realizes how to be a real leader and empower his guys.

[RashanGary]

I think AR talked MLF into more inside zones. A couple weeks ago AR was saying Jones cuts back earlier than a lot of backs but it’s his style and he’s good at it.... It was completely counter to what MLF says about “pressing the edge.” I sensed AR wanted MLF to let Jones be Jones. And I even thought AR might be right in that situation. That’s why I didn’t come here, bump this and bitch.... I just thought about it and was gonna pay attention to see if AR had a point.

Well, before I could pay attention, MLF completely flipped script and adjusted for his guys. Shows the same kinda maturity AR is showing. So I think AR is a positive influence on MLF too. And I do think MLF truly listens and adjusts for AR and for all the guys as well. Both guys are impressing me.

[RashanGary]

Stenovich is a young OL coach. He came in with coaching points and a goal in mind. But he’s talked about adjusting and letting guys play their style too. Bakh talked in TC about no two guys having the same bodies so their technique is all a little different. Was good to hear the young coach have an open mind and flexibility to let guys play their style and not micromanage.

[pbmax]

I think AR talked MLF into more inside zones. A couple weeks ago AR was saying Jones cuts back earlier than a lot of backs but it’s his style and he’s good at it.... It was completely counter to what MLF says about “pressing the edge.” I sensed AR wanted MLF to let Jones be Jones. And I even thought AR might be right in that situation. That’s why I didn’t come here, bump this and bitch.... I just thought about it and was gonna pay attention to see if AR had a point.

Well, before I could pay attention, MLF completely flipped script and adjusted for his guys. Shows the same kinda maturity AR is showing. So I think AR is a positive influence on MLF too. And I do think MLF truly listens and adjusts for AR and for all the guys as well. Both guys are impressing me.

Missing Williams changed their calculus a lot. Jones on an outside zone is a mess so far. Williams will get healthy and give the offense back this feature. Tra Carson ran tough, but I am not sure he is the answer to the outside zone.

I suspect there is still more shotgun that M4 would like, but its good that he is adjusting. You need something for 2nd/3rd and long.

Now they just need to find a #2 receiver. They tried out five FA guys this week, but that isn't going to do it.

[bobblehead]

https://images.app.goo.gl/RH2XdPLaSBTp7ZaEA

[Upnorth]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/aaron-rodgers-has-been-magic-in-the-first-quarter-and-a-pumpkin-in-the-fourth/

[RashanGary]

https://images.app.goo.gl/D93WYh2WRrpB6u796

He’s done

[pbmax]

I'm telling you, they should script 45 plays. Hell 60.

You could make a book out of all the plays at the end of the season.

[Zool]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/aaron-rodgers-has-been-magic-in-the-first-quarter-and-a-pumpkin-in-the-fourth/

Boy that is 100% shown on the field every week. Scripted plays end and the offense goes from world beaters, to ho hum.

[pbmax]

Irony is that the mediated, agreed to script has been a smashing success.

But neither the M4 offense not the Rodgers extended offense looked good by themselves later. Exception was the inside run game versus Dallas.

[RashanGary]

Irony is that the mediated, agreed to script has been a smashing success.

But neither the M4 offense not the Rodgers extended offense looked good by themselves later. Exception was the inside run game versus Dallas.

I think AR and M4 are finding playcaller/QB chemistry. Both guys seem to realize the Turner/Jenkins/Jones run strengths, so they’re starting to agree on ways to attack defenses and don’t seem to be fighting each other. It’s starting to gel.

[RashanGary]

Thankfully though, before the gelling took place, AR and M4 were able to script 15, get ahead and lean on the defense. I just think they’re evolving past that now and even without outside weapons, have found some run strengths and QB strengths that the offense can make hay with.

[RashanGary]

AR likes Graham. Graham is blocking better.
AR liked Lewis. Lewis is always blocking better.
Jenkins and Turner bring a whole new dimension to the run game
Jonesey is running hard
Adams is coming back
MVS runs fast and stretches the defense


I think we can make due with what we have. It’s just gonna be a different concoction than what we’re used to. But really, isn’t every year a different concoction?

[mraynrand]

I think this scripted narrative is getting kind of overblown. Another way of looking at it is "game-planning." Maybe, just maybe, the Packers come into a game with a better game plan for attacking the other team on both sides of the ball. So they do better in the first half than in the second. Scripted? What does that really mean? If the fifth play is scripted as a bomb to MVS, but they have first and goal on the 5, do they run it? Seriously, the 5-38 website tries to make much of this too, but I saw in another report that NE is right up there with GB in first quarter scoring. The Chefs score more early than late, and Andy Reid is considered a *oddamn genius. At least some teams that score well in the fourth tend to be teams that have been blown out and are playing against prevent defenses and clock-killing offenses. So, a combination of running out the clock with a lead, playing against good defenses that can adjust, and most critically, a game plan that exploits the other team when it's easiest (early in the game with both teams not necessarily knowing what the other team will show) has resulted in early leads. A little self-scouting as to the adjustments other teams make might help increase effectiveness in the second half, but I'll take less scoring any day when they are milking the clock up 31-3.

[RashanGary]

I’m kind of right between mraynrand and PB. I think the QB and playcaller agreed on the 15 so it was more effective early as they didn’t agree after that.

I think it’s fast becoming overblown because the QB and playcaller seem to be in gleeful harmony on what this offenses strengths are and are starting to click beyond the 15. AR even said he pressured M4 to keep pounding the rock and I visually saw AR let run plays ride into 8 man boxes vs Dallas. So those two are fast becoming a good pair beyond 15.

Also, I’m with rand that the leads we have are part of it. Having leads is a good problem to have.

[RashanGary]

I think M4 is appreciating AR more every day.

But I think AR is appreciating M4 more every day too cuz the all 11 mantra has the perimeter players blocking in a way we haven’t seen in years and AR enjoys winning and is really close with the OL so I think AR is really enjoying winning with the run. Stats don’t do it for him anymore. Team and winning does. And ARs ball security and game command are the biggest reasons we win so he’s earning is 35M and is still a huge part of it. Tom Brady with mobility. Best QB in the NFL

[mraynrand]

I didn't want to descend too far into silliness with the MVS bomb play. I know that most teams have a set of plays for every down and distance. Packers run their favorite plays for those downs and distances early in the game. Bu the other team game plans too, and after they see those plays, they counter them (well, the Redskins and Jets don't). So they go to play #2 or #3 on the chart depending on what the defense shows, etc. etc. I agree that it takes time to get that groove between Rodgers and Flower. I honestly thought it would take a lot longer. The groin pains in this offense haven't been enough to derail an amazing 4-1 start against some pretty tough defenses.

[RashanGary]

I agree that it takes time to get that groove between Rodgers and Flower. I honestly thought it would take a lot longer. The groin pains in this offense haven't been enough to derail an amazing 4-1 start against some pretty tough defenses.

I thought it would be sooner but shows ya what I know. I’ve adjusted the way I view football after seeing the start of this season unfold.

[gbgary]

I think this scripted narrative is getting kind of overblown. Another way of looking at it is "game-planning."

i don't think it is. those scripted plays are the ones they pound on during practice. that's why they're more successful. they should probably work more of those plays into the 4th qtr mix when a first down is imperative.

[mraynrand]

i don't think it is. those scripted plays are the ones they pound on during practice. that's why they're more successful. they should probably work more of those plays into the 4th qtr mix when a first down is imperative.

As I said, I think these plays you refer to are indeed at the top of their list of favorite plays for the particular down and distance. But once they run 'em the defense sees them and can adjust. Maybe they are outthinking themselves sometimes, or maybe game circumstances dictate otherwise. There are a whole host of reasons why they don't run the same exact stuff late in games, including, most prominently and wonderfully this past week, the fact that they are up by three scores.

[Zool]

Script or no script, they are either not adjusting well at halftime, or Rodgers is falling into his bad habits when they have a lead.

[texaspackerbacker]

It isn't the scripting itself so much as it's the fact that the script often departs from LaFleur's standard offense. If it was the script that made the big difference, they could and probably would put together another script for after the half. The "bad habit" is LaFleur falling back on his run-first mentality and wasting too many downs that way. I say this having become slightly less negative about the running game, given that our O Line kicked it up a notch and Aaron Jones looked a little bit like Jonathan Taylor at times. Even so, the runs were not as successful as even just an average passing game, and way too often LaFleur got away from the inside zone runs that were working and went back to his favorite outside zone which were not working.

[mraynrand]

The 'run-first' thing has a lot of fiction to it. Against Philly, they went to their money man against a weak secondary. Adams was the guy to exploit Philly's top weakness. Against Dallas, especially without Adams to work the edges, they went with their money man on short passes to frustrate the pass rush, and on inside zone runs where they could get a hat on the LBs with their interior strength.

In short, Flower is running his offense just like 'Cheat - matching his own team's strength against the defenses' most vulnerable points. But, the Packers only have so many weapons, and when the defense takes stuff away, they revert to the main weapon, the "wave motion gun*" that is Aaron Rodgers







*Any saturday morning anime nerds out there?

[RashanGary]

The 'run-first' thing has a lot of fiction to it. Against Philly, they went to their money man against a weak secondary. Adams was the guy to exploit Philly's top weakness. Against Dallas, especially without Adams to work the edges, they went with their money man on short passes to frustrate the pass rush, and on inside zone runs where they could get a hat on the LBs with their interior strength.

In short, Flower is running his offense just like 'Cheat - matching his own team's strength against the defenses' most vulnerable points. But, the Packers only have so many weapons, and when the defense takes stuff away, they revert to the main weapon, the "wave motion gun*" that is Aaron Rodgers







*Any saturday morning anime nerds out there?

This is what i see too. And they’re just learning what works best for these guys.

[Upnorth]

I see it more that when arod trusts his receivers to be where they are supposed to be he will unload the cannon. When he does not trust them he turtles.

[texaspackerbacker]

The 'run-first' thing has a lot of fiction to it. Against Philly, they went to their money man against a weak secondary. Adams was the guy to exploit Philly's top weakness. Against Dallas, especially without Adams to work the edges, they went with their money man on short passes to frustrate the pass rush, and on inside zone runs where they could get a hat on the LBs with their interior strength.

In short, Flower is running his offense just like 'Cheat - matching his own team's strength against the defenses' most vulnerable points. But, the Packers only have so many weapons, and when the defense takes stuff away, they revert to the main weapon, the "wave motion gun*" that is Aaron Rodgers







*Any saturday morning anime nerds out there?

I sort of agree, but it's more a matter of circumstance in the game - turn Rodgers loose and get a lead, or in the case of the Eagles game, when running the ball is pretty much a hopeless cause. Then when we get a lead, LaFleur feels comfortable reverting to his own way of doing things - hence the late game problems and allowing teams to get back in the game.

Hopefully over time, LaFleur learns to de-emphasize his (ego-driven?) penchant to change toward his "new offense", and he goes with what works. To some extent, what we have seen resembles McCarthy's "playing not to lose" rather than trusting Rodgers to keep the offense going and not make mistakes like so many other QBs.

[RashanGary]

https://youtu.be/_zeCOGx6oZ0

Go to 2:45. Start of Aaron Jones clip followed by 12’s response

[RashanGary]

You watch that clip and see Aaron’s excitement for his teammate... you look at his stat line that could have easily read 3 touchdowns and a 130 rating and you listen to his words after the game. It all lines up. Leadership. He’s graduated to a new level of dominance as it relates to winning. But don’t listen to me, I’m a lunatic. Listen to 12 himself. Stats are so 2011. Winning is the new QB rating for 12.

In the words of handsome flower, winning takes “all 11”

And with that, my biggest gripe with 12 is gone. I’m with Tex but for different reasons. GOAT

[gbgary]

if rodgers has truly come to that realization we're all but one hoping for, they'll weed-out all the mccarthy O that's stinking up the playbook (er...surface tablet).

[RashanGary]

if rodgers has truly come to that realization we're all but one hoping for, they'll weed-out all the mccarthy O that's stinking up the playbook (er...surface tablet).

I don’t know if it was the McCarthy O or the post game glasses of scotch shared where McCarthy read Aaron his stat line but was really internally gloating about what a QB guru he is and simultaneously influencing AR to be a glory whore like MM.

[RashanGary]

After the glasses of scotch were finished and 12 went home with a creepy feeling in the pit of his stomach that he couldn’t quite explain, McCarthy pulled the curtains revealing pictures of the quarterbacks he’s coached along side him (even if it was for 1 week). The wall is presented in such a way that McCarthy is the reason for all of their success. In the middle is Rodgers, and his career stats, and McCarthy hovering over like a dickhead guru. He then jerks off and releases his idiot load on the stat sheet and goes to bed feeling like a big guru.

Deep down, we all knew something was wrong, but couldn’t put our fingers on it. MMs head got so big, it was bigger than MMs big ugly head.

[pbmax]

I didn't want to descend too far into silliness with the MVS bomb play. I know that most teams have a set of plays for every down and distance. Packers run their favorite plays for those downs and distances early in the game. Bu the other team game plans too, and after they see those plays, they counter them (well, the Redskins and Jets don't). So they go to play #2 or #3 on the chart depending on what the defense shows, etc. etc. I agree that it takes time to get that groove between Rodgers and Flower. I honestly thought it would take a lot longer. The groin pains in this offense haven't been enough to derail an amazing 4-1 start against some pretty tough defenses.

The script deal used to be run in any circumstance of down and distance except for goal line or extreme short yardage (QB sneak distance). I don't know if that is the case anymore. And Walsh used it partially because he was fishing for ideas to use in the second half (how did they play that look, lets run same look but different play).

I would buy the game plan not script idea if the start of the 2nd halves were better. I think that the offense getting better for longer in the first half is likely symbolic of Rodgers and LaFleur finding more and more of what they like. I am sure both knew they had to feature Jones last week because they were down on skill position guys.

But this phenomenon could be game planning plus learning to adjust to the opponent's adjustments. Rodgers used to have that memorized for all of M3's offensive designs and personnel groups. A lot of it is new now.

[pbmax]

But, the Packers only have so many weapons, and when the defense takes stuff away, they revert to the main weapon, the "wave motion gun*" that is Aaron Rodgers

*Any saturday morning anime nerds out there?


Yes. TV Tropes lists the wave motion gun under the heading of "When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfucker in the galaxy, accept no substitutes."

I just read that there are three season of the original American adaptation of the Japanese show. I have seen seasons 1 and 2. I will now have to find Season 3.

[mraynrand]

Yes. TV Tropes lists the wave motion gun under the heading of "When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfucker in the galaxy, accept no substitutes."

I just read that there are three season of the original American adaptation of the Japanese show. I have seen seasons 1 and 2. I will now have to find Season 3.

Bolar Wars!

[RashanGary]

Heard AR talking to Favre on some radio show this week. Favre told Rodgers some time in the past that AR has every stat and every individual accomplishment he could hope for. All that’s left is championships. AR said that’s his approach this year. Doesn’t care about passing yards or touchdowns, only wins. Just as happy with 4 rushing TDS for Jones as passing. So isn’t even paying attention to stats and had his best game vs Cowboys.

Must say, I agree AR. Every gripe I’ve had with him continually proves to be completely invalid at this time.

[Bretsky]

I'm not sure what to think about AROD. I respect you viewing it as the positive spin. I'm not sure. Too many ways to interpret this, and it could simply be an excuse/logistic reasoning to justify his lack of stats and his knowledge that right now there is a lot of talent on D and a shortage of Offense.

Playing wife, he's still very good. The one take away I have form the last couple years is he just isn't throwing the deeper balls nearly as well as he used to in the Jordy days

[Vincenzo]

http://https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/23/aaron-rodgers-named-nfc-offensive-player-of-the-week-6/

Aaron Rodgers named NFC Player of the week.

Current 2019 NFL Most Valuable Player Award Odds

Aaron Rodgers +250
Russell Wilson +300
Deshaun Watson +600
Christian McCaffrey +800
Lamar Jackson +900
Tom Brady +900
Kirk Cousins +1600
Patrick Mahomes +1600
Dak Prescott +3300
Jacoby Brissett +3300
Jimmy Garoppolo +3300
Carson Wentz +5000

[Tony Oday]

I hear AR is pretty good.

[red]

I hear AR is pretty good.

It’s amazing how good he can be when he trusts his blocking, sets his feet, and actually throw to the open receivers

[Radagast]

Rodgers, like most other NFL QBs, would always prefer to throw from the protection of an unbeatable O-Line. Along with perfect protection, all QBs want reliable receivers that can get open within the few seconds that their pocket protection holds up. Then to complete the wish list, QBs like to have a running game that not only keeps blitzing defenses honest, but gains valuable yards as well.

No QB enjoys being constantly flushed from the pocket because their protection broke down or due to their receivers inability to get open quickly. Blaming a QB for inaccurate throws or poor targeting decisions is acceptable, but how quickly do we forget those passes that hit the receiver in his chest or hands, only to not be caught.

Yes, few QBs are true Field Generals like Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Wilson currently are. Playing QB, especially in the NFL, may just be the most difficult position in all of sports to play. HOF QBs like Marino, Fouts, and others have stood out due to their natural talents in spite of the often lack of supporting talent. A good QB can preform well enough to make average players successful, but a great QB can turn above average players into champions. This could be Rodgers year to do just that.

[Joemailman]

It’s amazing how good he can be when he trusts his blocking, sets his feet, and actually throw to the open receivers

I think the offensive line is a key. Having a healthy Bulaga and Jenkins at LG replacing Taylor has given the Packers their best pass-blocking OL since they had Sitton and Lang at the Guard positions. Rodgers is now planting his feet in a way that he hasn't for a few years. It really caught my eye on a number of throws Sunday.

[mraynrand]

I'm kind of excited for when Rodgers gets back to top form.

[RashanGary]

I think the offensive line is a key. Having a healthy Bulaga and Jenkins at LG replacing Taylor has given the Packers their best pass-blocking OL since they had Sitton and Lang at the Guard positions. Rodgers is now planting his feet in a way that he hasn't for a few years. It really caught my eye on a number of throws Sunday.

Yep. OL makes a huge difference.

[pbmax]

I think the offensive line is a key. Having a healthy Bulaga and Jenkins at LG replacing Taylor has given the Packers their best pass-blocking OL since they had Sitton and Lang at the Guard positions. Rodgers is now planting his feet in a way that he hasn't for a few years. It really caught my eye on a number of throws Sunday.

Having a healthy Rodgers is as important I suspect.