More Banjo: Week 4 vs. Philadelphia

[pbmax]

Offense comes to life. Defense falls apart.

Special Teams make the difference in the loss.

D line looks wounded. Saw very little of Dr. Zaius, have to wonder if injury affected him tonight.

Rodgers best game of season but still to hit and miss. La Fleur offense missing in action after Williams goes down.

Adams hurts a toe. Jamaal Williams took a shot to head and neck.

[pbmax]

You'll never guess what DB is hurt now.

@TomOatesWSJ
#Packers say Davante Adams has a toe injury and Kevin King a groin injury. Both questionable to return.

@WesHod
The #Packers going deep into their secondary reserves. Chandon Sullivan playing safety now in dime with Josh Jackson in the slot

I WOULD SAY MAYBE JACKSON CAN MAN SLOT VERSUS TE BETTER THAN REDMOND, BUT HE'S GOING TO BE NEEDED OUTSIDE WITH KING HURT

[mraynrand]

And once again Bulaga goes out. But I'm not even sure that was all that bad, because perhaps it made them abandon the run, which wasn't working.

[Zool]

Savage and Gary forgot the game was on Thursday.

[pbmax]

And once again Bulaga goes out. But I'm not even sure that was all that bad, because perhaps it made them abandon the run, which wasn't working.

Yep. Bulaga definitely hurt.

Running inside was better than out. But that is not what the offense was supposed to be built on.

[mraynrand]

You'll never guess what DB is hurt now.

@TomOatesWSJ
#Packers say Davante Adams has a toe injury and Kevin King a groin injury. Both questionable to return.

@WesHod
The #Packers going deep into their secondary reserves. Chandon Sullivan playing safety now in dime with Josh Jackson in the slot

I WOULD SAY MAYBE JACKSON CAN MAN SLOT VERSUS TE BETTER THAN REDMOND, BUT HE'S GOING TO BE NEEDED OUTSIDE WITH KING HURT

Well, there's the six weeker we all expected.

this is why I watch fourth quarters of preseason games, so I know who's playing when the starters all drop like flies.

[mraynrand]

Running inside was better than out. But that is not what the offense was supposed to be built on.

Jenkins may be their only legit run blocker

[RashanGary]

Light looked like he has a slower kick step than Bulaga. He looked decent and competitive. Still young and has more upside I’m sure, but at a glance, definitely looks more like a decent backup than a guy you want starting.

[call_me_ishmael]

For a Thursday game and NFCC preview, it wasn't half bad. I said earlier in the summer: The Packers and Eagles are the two best teams in the NFC. Add Dallas to that and you've got the answer. None of them have any holes, but GB and Philly clearly have the better QB.

If teams are gonna run like crazy on you, you've gotta adjust and load up on dem boyz up front.

[RashanGary]

Jenkins may be their only legit run blocker


Jenkins, Lindsley......

Turner is OK with the outside zone/movement stuff.

Bulaga and Bakh are bad run blockers.

[RashanGary]

For a Thursday game and NFCC preview, it wasn't half bad. I said earlier in the summer: The Packers and Eagles are the two best teams in the NFC. Add Dallas to that and you've got the answer. None of them have any holes, but GB and Philly clearly have the better QB.

If teams are gonna run like crazy on you, you've gotta adjust and load up on dem boyz up front.

49ers solid too. Solid defense, solid offense, kittle.....

[pbmax]

@packers
Williams has been ruled out for the game. He does have feeling & movement in all of his extremities.

@packers
#Packers CB Tony Brown has a hamstring injury and is questionable to return. #PHIvsGB

WELCOME TO GREEN BAY COACH FLOWER

@packers
#Packers T Bryan Bulaga has a shoulder injury and is questionable to return. #PHIvsGB

@packers
#Packers S Will Redmond is being evaluated for a concussion. #PHIvsGB

BULAGA AND BROWN WERE BOTH ANNOUNCED AS RULED OUT. NOT SURE ABOUT REDMOND, BUT SAW HIM HEADED TO LOCKER ROOM

[Joemailman]

Aaron Jones last 2 games with 23 rushes for 40 yards. Not sure if problem is scheme or blocking or Jones.

[mraynrand]

Aaron Jones last 2 games with 23 rushes for 40 yards. Not sure if problem is scheme or blocking or Jones.

yes

[RashanGary]

I’m starting to agree with the people who don’t like the WRs. They do look bad. Next year is gonna require some overhauling. High picks at the very least...

[pbmax]

I’m starting to agree with the people who don’t like the WRs. They do look bad. Next year is gonna require some overhauling. High picks at the very least...

Problem is, if you run this hybrid offense, how do you train them?

MVS has picked it up the best but he has issues too. The Rodgers no huddle worked for Graham and Tonyan and Jones, so maybe there is hope.

[texaspackerbacker]

I saw a whole lot of Redmond and very little of Savage or Tramon in that game. That seemed like a bad thing, and based on results it proved to be. I hope Josh Jackson can help, but I wouldn't bet on it. Jackson also appeared to be the main one to blame on the long kick return. The end guy is supposed to turn the play in and not let the returner get free up the sidelines. Somebody, Jackson I think, just took dead aim on the returner, got trapped inside, and allowed the guy to get outside.

[texaspackerbacker]

Problem is, if you run this hybrid offense, how do you train them?

MVS has picked it up the best but he has issues too. The Rodgers no huddle worked for Graham and Tonyan and Jones, so maybe there is hope.

The thing that gives hope is that whenever they unleashed Rodgers to pass pass pass, there was success. Hopefully, LaFleur will get that through his thick skull. So many times, though, they did it his damn way - run it into the back side of our damn pushed back O Line on first down, sometimes second too, leaving a lot more difficult passing situation and very little margin for error on third down. THAT is the LaFleur way! THAT apparently is what some in here want to see more of!

[Fritz]

Offense comes to life. Defense falls apart.

Special Teams make the difference in the loss.

D line looks wounded. Saw very little of Dr. Zaius, have to wonder if injury affected him tonight.

Rodgers best game of season but still to hit and miss. La Fleur offense missing in action after Williams goes down.

Adams hurts a toe. Jamaal Williams took a shot to head and neck.



Fire Dom Capers!

[mraynrand]

The thing that gives hope is that whenever they unleashed Rodgers to pass pass pass, there was success. Hopefully, LaFleur will get that through his thick skull. So many times, though, they did it his damn way - run it into the back side of our damn pushed back O Line on first down, sometimes second too, leaving a lot more difficult passing situation and very little margin for error on third down. THAT is the LaFleur way! THAT apparently is what some in here want to see more of!

Give me more! I want more! Third and long, baby, then RELEASE THE KRAKEN! Pass, pass, pass!

[beveaux1]

The team has weaknesses. Our run defense consists of hoping Martinez can tackle the ball carrier after he moves through a gaping hole in the DL...over and over again.
We can't cover good or even average TEs, because the MLB is used almost exclusively in run support and has to think run first, not drop into the middle zone.

We have a couple of pretty good RBs with their own strengths and weaknesses. Jones is quick at slashing through a hole and has quick feet on dump off passes. He also cannot get past the first man that hits him
and is weak at pass blocking. Williams can usually drive through the first tackler and is a master at setting up screens. He is also a decent pass blocker with good hands. He lacks quickness and has no breakaway ability.
Neither of them are exceptional, first level RBs. Neither of them is a feature back.
Facing a good run defense, with our marginal run blocking OL, these RBs will struggle.

[beveaux1]

Our pass receivers, outside of Adams, are guys who are marginal on any NFL roster. Graham is used up. Lewis has always been a better blocker than receiver, and Tonyan hasn't proved he can play.

The WRs, outside of Adams, are a collection of undrafted free agents and one 5th round pick. They struggle to get open, even against a weak, beat up secondary.

I understand that we only had so much draft and free agent capital to work with this offseason, but this is the group that could keep us from the playoffs.

We might can fix some of our other problems, but you can't fix a lack of talent at receiver in a pass first offense.

[Bretsky]

I’m starting to agree with the people who don’t like the WRs. They do look bad. Next year is gonna require some overhauling. High picks at the very least...


I think we have a bunch of #3-#5 WR's after Adams. We need one more threat

[pbmax]

Eagles scoring drives by yardage:
34
45
17
76
78

Packers
74
78
48
65
72


Turnovers and terrible special teams tipped this game to the Eagles.

[pbmax]

McCarthy used to talk about special team yardage. As in how far did social teams push the other team back. Anyone remember how we decoded that?

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFch3QzU8Ac9XUk?format=jpg&name=small

[Cheesehead Craig]

So why was that play not reviewed again?

[pbmax]

So why was that play not reviewed again?

No idea.

[mraynrand]

No idea.

Lot of evidence from this game that the NFL is trying to change the way this rule is used. I'm guessing they want the refs on the field to make these calls, and only want the terrible, obvious, openly egregious calls to be reversed. They don't want the frame-by-frame "Oh look, the defender got there six microseconds before the ball" crap to be reversed. Training coaches not to waste challenges on close calls. That's my guess.

[pbmax]

He'll be back before King.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFeqoN2XoAEJs7v?format=jpg&name=large

[call_me_ishmael]

Shoulda traded King for Jax corner while they had the chance. Gah!

[pbmax]

I suspect Jaire had a good game.

@BrandonGowton
Nelson Agholor was targeted just once in the Eagles’ win over the Packers. Zero receptions.

[Fosco33]

I was in the opposite endzone for both late stalls but could watch the big board of course. We were all a little surprised at 4 incompletions. None of us knew by Adams was out - fricken turf toe. Hope it’s a grade 1 or he may be screwed.

Not sure I want to watch the recording. Eagles fans were abundant but pleasant - the chants and whatnot got old quick.

At some point we’ll have a complete 3 phase game...

[texaspackerbacker]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFch3QzU8Ac9XUk?format=jpg&name=small

I suspect the PI review rule is actually making things worse, because it seems like the refs are erring on the side of not calling PI more than before. They should be instructed to drop a flag on anything that is close, and then have an automatic booth review to overturn mistakes - no coach challenge needed, kinda like the no call on the Packers fumble return for TD that everybody knew wouldn't stand up.

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
LaFleur said he will ask for a clarification from the league on whether pass interference was possible on the last play and whether it should have been called.

LaFleur on run defense: We talked about everybody doing their job. Certain plays guys didn't do their jobs. Few other times there were communications errors. I challenged them, we have to be on the details.

LaFleur said Alex Light did pretty well at RT. Said there were a couple of plays where he allowed pressure, but Rodgers was able to escape.

LaFleur said staff will have off Saturday and Sunday and he'd like to give the team a mini-bye because they've had two Thursday games already this season.

LaFleur said long-term prognosis on WR Davante Adams' toe injury isn't determined yet.

Matt LaFleur said RB Jamaal Williams spent the night in the hospital but is home now and he's doing pretty well.

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk
Jay Ajayi fully recovered from knee surgery, looking for work https://t.co/vxAOPL1uHp?amp=1

Free agent running back Jay Ajayi has not played a game in almost a full year. He tore an anterior cruciate ligament in an Oct. 7 game against the Vikings while playing for the Eagles. Ajayi became…

[pbmax]

So, no run calls in 4 goal to go tries? Remember, Rodgers is learning a new offense too.

Geoff Schwartz @geoffschwartz
The @packers did attempt a run in their first failure inside the 5. It was a RPO, Rodgers predetermined the read, didn’t allow for the throwing window + the Eagles defense was ready. There’s so much happening in this one clip. As football nerdy as it gets. Enjoy.

https://twitter.com/geoffschwartz/status/1177594963586097152


@RobDemovsky
Here was Matt LaFleur postgame on what happened:
"It was a play with a run-pass option, and Aaron saw what he saw and he pulled the ball, the defense reacted so he had to throw it away."

[mraynrand]

So, no run calls in 4 goal to go tries? Remember, Rodgers is learning a new offense too.

Geoff Schwartz @geoffschwartz
The @packers did attempt a run in their first failure inside the 5. It was a RPO, Rodgers predetermined the read, didn’t allow for the throwing window + the Eagles defense was ready. There’s so much happening in this one clip. As football nerdy as it gets. Enjoy.

https://twitter.com/geoffschwartz/status/1177594963586097152


@RobDemovsky
Here was Matt LaFleur postgame on what happened:
"It was a play with a run-pass option, and Aaron saw what he saw and he pulled the ball, the defense reacted so he had to throw it away."

wow, Rodgers totally misread that. They even had Linsley kick out to the second level. That run was totally blocked up.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think we have a bunch of #3-#5 WR's after Adams. We need one more threat

What about that white guy with the mullet. Jake Kumerow. Wisconsin stock. Can't be any worse.

[Bretsky]

Eagles scoring drives by yardage:
34
45
17
76
78

Packers
74
78
48
65
72


Turnovers and terrible special teams tipped this game to the Eagles.


I'ts a good thing Matty got to hire his first choice as our Special Teams coach when one of the best in the game was available.

WAIT..............TIGHT ASS MARCIA F'CKED THAT ALL UP

[pbmax]

I'ts a good thing Matty got to hire his first choice as our Special Teams coach when one of the best in the game was available.

WAIT..............TIGHT ASS MARCIA F'CKED THAT ALL UP

Probably wouldn't have helped, they need gunners. Nothing left without Janis, Davis or Crawford. Still developing guys.

[Joemailman]

So why was that play not reviewed again?


No idea.

Since it resulted in a turnover, wouldn't there automatically be a booth review?

[Bretsky]

Probably wouldn't have helped, they need gunners. Nothing left without Janis, Davis or Crawford. Still developing guys.



Hire the best coaches

Coaching always helps

How did we end up with Matty again ?

[call_me_ishmael]

Why are you so against Matty Bretsky? He won his first three games - that's pretty unbelievable. What reason is there to doubt his readiness and capabilities so far? It's way too early. The early signs are good in my opinion. Did you listen to the clip I linked from the reporter talking about how prepared and knowledgable the GB coaching staff seems this year vs under MM? That's very encouraging to me.

[Bretsky]

Why are you so against Matty Bretsky? He won his first three games - that's pretty unbelievable. What reason is there to doubt his readiness and capabilities so far? It's way too early. The early signs are good in my opinion. Did you listen to the clip I linked from the reporter talking about how prepared and knowledgable the GB coaching staff seems this year vs under MM? That's very encouraging to me.


Fair Disclsoure: I did not listen to the clip; but here are a lot of thoughts.

I had serious concerns from day one that the only team interested in interviewing him was GB.

And well above Matty, I don't have faith in Mark Murphy. So it worried me that after one round of interviews they slept on it and led my MM, I think, rather than interviewing a second round they just decided to hire him immediately. There was not reason to rush; he had no other interviews.

I don't feel like he excelled in Tonnessee in his only year as an OC. And I don't have a ton of faith in him as a OC. At each half, it appeared the opposition made solid half time adjustments and our guy failed to effectively counter them. Our offense needs to be better.

I think Aaron Jones is an outstanding RB. He's good and should be doing way way better. I'm not confident the players are in place to run the system he wants to implement and I fear he's not willing to adjust his system to highlight the player's skill set.

I think he seems like a great guy, and a humble human being. i'm withholding judgment. And I agree he needs more time.

But so far on I'm not sold

[Radagast]

Why are you so against Matty Bretsky? He won his first three games - that's pretty unbelievable. What reason is there to doubt his readiness and capabilities so far? It's way too early. The early signs are good in my opinion. Did you listen to the clip I linked from the reporter talking about how prepared and knowledgable the GB coaching staff seems this year vs under MM? That's very encouraging to me.

I must agree. To expect any team to not lose any games is unreasonable. Too many though expect instant results and that is wrong thinking. 3 and 1 for a new HC with a new offensive system is above where I believed they would be. Patience is only a word for some, but for others it's another way to say R-E-L-A-X.

[pbmax]

Adams and Williams both escaped serious injury. No timelines yet.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27715478/packers-get-positive-news-jamaal-williams-davante-adams-injuries

[pbmax]

I have a Murphy complaint that is based off a bank shot. You choose a non-proven commodity as HC who is going to change the offense Even we here and Panic Central know the offense will be a hybrid.

But the front office treats the offense like its a Guard short of being ready.

I get the focus on Defense. It was worse. The offense, as bad as it was, was better than the D and had some home talent. But they could have used a WR or new TE to help with Rodger's offense.

[texaspackerbacker]

Somebody in a position like Murphy's is, I would think, responsive to some degree to the fans, especially with a team like the Packers where there are so many shareholders. And what did he here pretty consistently? Bitching about McCarthy's offense. So blame for the fact that he brought in a HC aiming to "change" the offense goes in part to those whiny fans.

[Teamcheez1]

If you told me a month ago that we would be 3-1 to start the season, I would be elated.

Yes, we have issues, but we knew that going in.
The defense has improved for the most part, but they are not quite there yet.
I estimated the offense would be 4-6 games into the season before it started to take form.

M4, Pettine, etc. are all still learning as a coaching staff.
Rodgers has to play better within the system.

The world did not end even with a poor showing on Thursday
It's been two years since we made the playoffs.
The turnaround is already evident with this squad.

[beveaux1]

I'm really not sure what everybody expected this season. As a first year coach of this team, the best Packers record of all time was Lombardi at 7-5.

We ended last season at 6-9-1. We really weren't as good as our record. We won one game within the division. We mounted 4 last drive comebacks, 1 to tie , 3 to win.

Our defense couldn't get off the field on 3rd and 4th down. We played from behind nearly every second half. With 3 major free agent pick ups on defense and a defense oriented draft, we expect to improve on defense. We're seeing that.

Our offense has been changed by a new coach, and besides one mid-level free agent guard and another rookie guard, has no new skill position changes from an offense that had dropped to 13th in the league.

I expected an offense that would again be middle of the pack. I thought it would be poor at the beginning of the season and better toward the end. We have exactly two playmakers on offense, Rodgers and Adams.

What we are is about an 8-8 or 9-7 team if we avoid injury and if the coaching is average to above-average. Maybe border-line playoff, but probably not.

We are fortunate to start the season with a home-heavy schedule that will allow us to show a record that is better than the team we have on the field. Maybe that will give us some momentum to end the season. Maybe it helps us make the playoffs.

Players, really good players help you win in this league. We just don't have enough of them right now to be a super bowl contender.

[Radagast]

I'm really not sure what everybody expected this season. As a first year coach of this team, the best Packers record of all time was Lombardi at 7-5.

We ended last season at 6-9-1. We really weren't as good as our record. We won one game within the division. We mounted 4 last drive comebacks, 1 to tie , 3 to win.

Our defense couldn't get off the field on 3rd and 4th down. We played from behind nearly every second half. With 3 major free agent pick ups on defense and a defense oriented draft, we expect to improve on defense. We're seeing that.

Our offense has been changed by a new coach, and besides one mid-level free agent guard and another rookie guard, has no new skill position changes from an offense that had dropped to 13th in the league.

I expected an offense that would again be middle of the pack. I thought it would be poor at the beginning of the season and better toward the end. We have exactly two playmakers on offense, Rodgers and Adams.

What we are is about an 8-8 or 9-7 team if we avoid injury and if the coaching is average to above-average. Maybe border-line playoff, but probably not.

We are fortunate to start the season with a home-heavy schedule that will allow us to show a record that is better than the team we have on the field. Maybe that will give us some momentum to end the season. Maybe it helps us make the playoffs.

Players, really good players help you win in this league. We just don't have enough of them right now to be a super bowl contender.



Bravo, well stated. That said I do believe that a 10 / 6 season is doable, but the receivers will have to pick up their game and get open for Rodgers to pass to. As for the running game, I believe that it will continue to progressively improve moving forward. A lot of hard work lies ahead for the Packers.

[texaspackerbacker]

If you told me a month ago that we would be 3-1 to start the season, I would be elated.

Yes, we have issues, but we knew that going in.
The defense has improved for the most part, but they are not quite there yet.
I estimated the offense would be 4-6 games into the season before it started to take form.

M4, Pettine, etc. are all still learning as a coaching staff.
Rodgers has to play better within the system.

The world did not end even with a poor showing on Thursday
It's been two years since we made the playoffs.
The turnaround is already evident with this squad.

That says more about you than it says about the team. So many people were negative/afraid to be labeled homers or whatever. To me, this Packer team shouldn't be the underdog to anybody, and there were only maybe two or three teams all season where they shouldn't be the clear favorite (one of those coming up next week).

I have said, of course there will be a few freakish games that we lose where we shouldn't. After all, shit happens - and it happened in the form of a couple of game changing bad calls against the Eagles.

The run defense got exposed against Denver, and the Eagles knew how to look at game films. If Pettine is as good a DC as he seems, though, he ought to be able to adjust things - ideally, he woulda been able to adjust during that game.

[Fritz]

I'm really not sure what everybody expected this season. As a first year coach of this team, the best Packers record of all time was Lombardi at 7-5.

We ended last season at 6-9-1. We really weren't as good as our record. We won one game within the division. We mounted 4 last drive comebacks, 1 to tie , 3 to win.

Our defense couldn't get off the field on 3rd and 4th down. We played from behind nearly every second half. With 3 major free agent pick ups on defense and a defense oriented draft, we expect to improve on defense. We're seeing that.

Our offense has been changed by a new coach, and besides one mid-level free agent guard and another rookie guard, has no new skill position changes from an offense that had dropped to 13th in the league.

I expected an offense that would again be middle of the pack. I thought it would be poor at the beginning of the season and better toward the end. We have exactly two playmakers on offense, Rodgers and Adams.

What we are is about an 8-8 or 9-7 team if we avoid injury and if the coaching is average to above-average. Maybe border-line playoff, but probably not.

We are fortunate to start the season with a home-heavy schedule that will allow us to show a record that is better than the team we have on the field. Maybe that will give us some momentum to end the season. Maybe it helps us make the playoffs.

Players, really good players help you win in this league. We just don't have enough of them right now to be a super bowl contender.


I say NO to all of the above.

The Eagles' offensive line opened holes for their running bscks as wide as the Grand Canyon. There was no pressure on Wentz. It looked like a Dom Capers defense.

Speaking of the old regime, the offense looked like an MM special - running the ball? What's that?

And it looks like Ron Zook was the special-guest special teams coach.

So I say it's time: PANIC! PANIC! WE'RE DOOMED! WE'RE NEVER GOING TO WIN ANOTHER GAME EVER!

FIRE THE SPECIAL TEAMS COACH! FIRE THE FLOWER! FIRE EVERYONE, INCLUDING MURPHY!

[George Cumby]

Players, really good players help you win in this league. We just don't have enough of them right now to be a super bowl contender.

I think this is the most salient point.

[bobblehead]

Offense comes to life. Defense falls apart.

Special Teams make the difference in the loss.

D line looks wounded. Saw very little of Dr. Zaius, have to wonder if injury affected him tonight.

Rodgers best game of season but still to hit and miss. La Fleur offense missing in action after Williams goes down.

Adams hurts a toe. Jamaal Williams took a shot to head and neck.

I would say the M4 offense was in action. I can't remember last time I saw ARod throw so many passes to RB and TE.

[mraynrand]

I'm really not sure what everybody expected this season....Players, really good players help you win in this league. We just don't have enough of them right now to be a super bowl contender.

I said 10-6 with no major injuries. The Packers replenished their roster quite a bit, but it was so depleted they couldn't do it in one year. Safety and pass rush were plugged up, but OL and WR were not. Overall depth is not there, so they will acutely feel any personnel losses. Even many their starters and rotation guys are pretty raw.

Philly is a championship level team, so the Packers playing right with them shows that Rodgers can be enough of a difference to get them to maybe the Divisional round. But they just cannot handle losses of any key players. If they stay healthy, and all the young guys improve, they have a shot.

[bobblehead]

The thing that gives hope is that whenever they unleashed Rodgers to pass pass pass, there was success. Hopefully, LaFleur will get that through his thick skull. So many times, though, they did it his damn way - run it into the back side of our damn pushed back O Line on first down, sometimes second too, leaving a lot more difficult passing situation and very little margin for error on third down. THAT is the LaFleur way! THAT apparently is what some in here want to see more of!

That worked because Philly has injuries galore in a bad secondary to start with...they are however incredibly stout against the run. This was a game where even I agreed with abandoning the run since it was getting flat out stonewalled. It was also the first game we lost.

[bobblehead]

Our pass receivers, outside of Adams, are guys who are marginal on any NFL roster. Graham is used up. Lewis has always been a better blocker than receiver, and Tonyan hasn't proved he can play.

The WRs, outside of Adams, are a collection of undrafted free agents and one 5th round pick. They struggle to get open, even against a weak, beat up secondary.

I understand that we only had so much draft and free agent capital to work with this offseason, but this is the group that could keep us from the playoffs.

We might can fix some of our other problems, but you can't fix a lack of talent at receiver in a pass first offense.

Its almost like you are saying we had too many holes to fill in one offseason.

That being said, everyone is over reacting to one loss against a really good team on a short week. This team is good. This D is good. We need the banged up guys to recover with the extra rest now and get after Dallas. We win that and everyone who is declaring this team an epic failure will be screaming "Owl or bust!!"

[RashanGary]

I said 10-6 with no major injuries. The Packers replenished their roster quite a bit, but it was so depleted they couldn't do it in one year. Safety and pass rush were plugged up, but OL and WR were not. Overall depth is not there, so they will acutely feel any personnel losses. Even many their starters and rotation guys are pretty raw.

Philly is a championship level team, so the Packers playing right with them shows that Rodgers can be enough of a difference to get them to maybe the Divisional round. But they just cannot handle losses of any key players. If they stay healthy, and all the young guys improve, they have a shot.

Pretty much.

I’d be excited about DL, ILB, RB, WR, OL in the first and second rounds.

Really hope we cut ties with Graham, Mercedes, Tramon and maybe even Crosby so we can keep Clark and whoever earns it this year.

[bobblehead]

Lot of evidence from this game that the NFL is trying to change the way this rule is used. I'm guessing they want the refs on the field to make these calls, and only want the terrible, obvious, openly egregious calls to be reversed. They don't want the frame-by-frame "Oh look, the defender got there six microseconds before the ball" crap to be reversed. Training coaches not to waste challenges on close calls. That's my guess.

I don't know. The one M4 challenged should have been over turned. Guy had his back to the ball, one hand under MVS chin, and the other around his waist. If that isn't pass interference I have one thing to say.

BRING BLACK AHMAD CAROL!!!

[bobblehead]

Shoulda traded King for Jax corner while they had the chance. Gah!

They never had that chance.

[mraynrand]

I don't know. The one M4 challenged should have been over turned. Guy had his back to the ball, one hand under MVS chin, and the other around his waist. If that isn't pass interference I have one thing to say.

BRING BLACK AHMAD CAROL!!!

I said they got all three controversial calls wrong. I'm just trying to come up with a reason why that all happened. And my guess is that the refs are deliberately changing the threshold for interference overturns in review. They want to reduce the challenges and the easiest way to is to essentially punish coaches for challenging by not reversing. The final play shows, if they are consistent, bang-bang- plays will not be reviewed and/or will not be overturned. RESET!

[bobblehead]

Why are you so against Matty Bretsky? He won his first three games - that's pretty unbelievable. What reason is there to doubt his readiness and capabilities so far? It's way too early. The early signs are good in my opinion. Did you listen to the clip I linked from the reporter talking about how prepared and knowledgable the GB coaching staff seems this year vs under MM? That's very encouraging to me.

So now myself and Partial agree. Next we will negotiate a balanced budget. Anything is possible now.

[bobblehead]

I have a Murphy complaint that is based off a bank shot. You choose a non-proven commodity as HC who is going to change the offense Even we here and Panic Central know the offense will be a hybrid.

But the front office treats the offense like its a Guard short of being ready.

I get the focus on Defense. It was worse. The offense, as bad as it was, was better than the D and had some home talent. But they could have used a WR or new TE to help with Rodger's offense.

So many problems so few picks/cash available to fix them. This was a ridiculously good offseason and start to a new season with a new coach.

[bobblehead]

Pretty much.

I’d be excited about DL, ILB, RB, WR, OL in the first and second rounds.

Really hope we cut ties with Graham, Mercedes, Tramon and maybe even Crosby so we can keep Clark and whoever earns it this year.

I would say all those departures are likely. Also think a WR/RB combo in 2 of first 3 rounds is likely.

[bobblehead]

I said they got all three controversial calls wrong. I'm just trying to come up with a reason why that all happened. And my guess is that the refs are deliberately changing the threshold for interference overturns in review. They want to reduce the challenges and the easiest way to is to essentially punish coaches for challenging by not reversing. The final play shows, if they are consistent, bang-bang- plays will not be reviewed and/or will not be overturned. RESET!

They got the king challenge correct. He was looking for the ball, playing the ball and had some contact with WR ARM ONLY. That ain't PI..not ever. If it is every contested play for the ball in every game is PI. We had 2 legit gripes. The challenge on MVS and the final play for us.

[mraynrand]

They got the king challenge correct. He was looking for the ball, playing the ball and had some contact with WR ARM ONLY. That ain't PI..not ever.

If you're pulling on the arm it sure is

[pbmax]

I would say the M4 offense was in action. I can't remember last time I saw ARod throw so many passes to RB and TE.

All that was left.

[beveaux1]

All that was left.

All that he felt could make a play.

[mraynrand]

All that he felt could make a play.

I'll check the tape again, but after Adams went out, they doubled Scantron. That leaves sloth, lazar tag, sheppard, and Kum as your other WR options. That's pretty thin. And the pass to Lazar showed perhaps that he's most Adams-like, slot-capable of the group.

[pbmax]

Kumerow was inactive with some kinda injury I think.

[Joemailman]

Kumerow was inactive with some kinda injury I think.

Kumerow has a shoulder. Kumerow almost makes Kevin King look like an iron man.

[pbmax]

Kumerow has a shoulder. Kumerow almost makes Kevin King look like an iron man.

Bet he dove over the 5 yard line in practice.

[pbmax]

Next week its Jenkins watch on the DVR.

[pbmax]

Mike Pereira @MikePereira
People are talking about possible pass interference on the Eagles pick at the end of the game on Thursday night. The contact was not more than a yard downfield. Not a foul even if reviewed. I would not have stopped it either.

Except that it is pass interference not illegal contact.

[pbmax]

Give it up for Rand:

Ben Volin @BenVolin
NFL Notes:

*Haves and Have-Nots: NFL has never had this many undefeated and winless teams
*Broncos are historically punchless
*Acquiring a WR (or anyone) won't be easy for cap-strapped Pats
*Riveron sending clear message to coaches
*More!
*

https://bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2019/09/28/bonus-for-antonio-brown-likely-win-money-fight-with-patriots/gUwhkToNn4LaBbriALVBGL/story.html?p1=Article_Feed_ContentQuery

[bobblehead]

If you're pulling on the arm it sure is

Nah. If you are playing the ball (he is looking back for it and reaching in to where it is headed.) then it isn't PI. If you call that PI, then flag every single contested play for the ball. The NFL made a huge deal about looking back for the ball several years ago. He was reaching in to deflect the incoming pass and caught some arm...that isn't PI. What the defender did to MVS....thats almost criminal and definitely PI in every definition EXCEPT that one play.

[bobblehead]

All that was left.

I'm talking well before the Adams injury. It was the Shanahan offense. There was less running after the 1st Q because it was stuffed so righteously.

[bobblehead]

Mike Pereira @MikePereira
People are talking about possible pass interference on the Eagles pick at the end of the game on Thursday night. The contact was not more than a yard downfield. Not a foul even if reviewed. I would not have stopped it either.

Except that it is pass interference not illegal contact.

The contact was with the ball in the air. You don't get to tackle the receiver with the ball in the air to my understanding.

[pbmax]

The contact was with the ball in the air. You don't get to tackle the receiver with the ball in the air to my understanding.

That is why I do not understand his stance on this.

[Fritz]

That is why I do not understand his stance on this.

The NFL just can't stop shooting itself in the foot.

[bobblehead]

The NFL just can't stop shooting itself in the foot.

They learn from politicians. Tell a blatant lie. Tell it with conviction. Hope no one actually has enough knowledge to point out that you are lying.

[pbmax]

I'm talking well before the Adams injury. It was the Shanahan offense. There was less running after the 1st Q because it was stuffed so righteously.

We'll see. They threw a ton, compared to prior McCarthy years, to RBs last year. Rodgers has been saying all season he wants to throw to Graham more.

When Williams went out, things went askew. And they were in shotgun a LOT. A lot of 11 personnel. Very little two tight end.

I think the biggest change was to attack the middle of the field.

[RashanGary]

Agree. Attack middle of the field..... and they went 11 a lot to take advantage of the injured secondary im guessing.

[bobblehead]

We'll see. They threw a ton, compared to prior McCarthy years, to RBs last year. Rodgers has been saying all season he wants to throw to Graham more.

When Williams went out, things went askew. And they were in shotgun a LOT. A lot of 11 personnel. Very little two tight end.

I think the biggest change was to attack the middle of the field.

Although we ran a lot less, we threw underneath a lot more. This was pretty close to the O M4 wants to run. He would like to run more often with more success, but it wasn't there tonight. We still put together a ton of long successful drives.

People bitching about our lack of talent on offense should watch the patriots game right now...or damn near any game on right now.

You posted the scoring drives the packers had....that isn't a total lack of talent on offense that did that. We failed in the red zone tonight...on a game tying play we should have gotten a call and didn't. We are 3-1 and could easily be 4-0, while not so easily be 2-2 so I'll take it.

[pbmax]

People bitching about our lack of talent on offense should watch the patriots game right now...or damn near any game on right now.


I’d love to have a 10 play drive offense regularly. And that is what several of their drives looked like last week. But this team with Rodgers hasn’t done that in a long time.

But the Eagles secondary is vulnerable. Won’t always be that lucky.

Combine that offense with a seemingly again accurate Rodgers and look out.

But it’s all oddly put together. Their best looking passing game was one where they couldn’t run.

[pbmax]

So, where did all the FA is great folks run off to?

[Bretsky]

So, where did all the FA is great folks run off to?


Clearly we miss Mike Daniels................and REPENT PBMAX and RID US OF THE CURSE.................We miss CULLEN JENKINS !!

[RashanGary]

I’d love to have a 10 play drive offense regularly. And that is what several of their drives looked like last week. But this team with Rodgers hasn’t done that in a long time.

But the Eagles secondary is vulnerable. Won’t always be that lucky.

Combine that offense with a seemingly again accurate Rodgers and look out.

But it’s all oddly put together. Their best looking passing game was one where they couldn’t run.

Rodgers threat of mobility is sort of like a run game because it slows pass rush. But the eagles were penetrating and undisciplined in their pass rush, so AR got to pull out some vintage AR stuff. The bad secondary of Philly combined with their identity and commitment to being a penetrating defense allowed AR to play like himself.

Other days, against most teams who play him in ways that slow his strengths, the Packers are gonna have to come up with other ways to attack and ARs gonna have to buy in.

On a side note, I find it curious that so many rookie and backup QBs are walking in and performing better than vets. Makes me think Vets might be outsmarting themselves and making it harder on themselves cuz a backup shouldn’t be able to walk in and out perform someone who’s built chemistry and rapport. OCs and QBs seem to be getting so cute that they’re hurting themselves more than hurting defenses.

[RashanGary]

Watching other NFL games shows me how badly we’re missing a stud ILB. My 2020 draft wishlist starts with a ILB. Martinez is a serviceable #2, like the James Jones of linebackers. He can do some things and in his prime you’re fine having him as your no.2, but we need a legit no.1 for our defense to take that next leap.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers threat of mobility is sort of like a run game because it slows pass rush.

This is one of the most intelligent things I've heard said around here for a long time.

[Bretsky]

Watching other NFL games shows me how badly we’re missing a stud ILB. My 2020 draft wishlist starts with a ILB. Martinez is a serviceable #2, like the James Jones of linebackers. He can do some things and in his prime you’re fine having him as your no.2, but we need a legit no.1 for our defense to take that next leap.

Elway wanted to trade out of pick 10 but didn't want to go that far down.

Guter dropped the ball. Give up a 3rd or 4th and go get our ILB instead of a project.

He looked good yesterday for Pittsburg.