Psst: Don't Talk About This Thread

[pbmax]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff/2019
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2019

Special Teams are a decidedly improved (though not special) 14th ranked through Week 5. You will not be surprised that JK47 is the best part.

Now try to forget you know this.

[texaspackerbacker]

Somebody needs to put a boot in the ass of the kickoff coverage team before they let the opponent take one to the house or poor Crosby gets busted up. From kids football on, players are taught that the end guy is supposed to turn the play in - never let the returner get to the sidelines. Twice now, our guy failed to do that and old gray Mason had to save the day.

[Joemailman]

What thread?

[Fosco33]

First rule of forum threads.

Don’t talk about forum threads.

[bobblehead]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff/2019
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2019

Special Teams are a decidedly improved (though not special) 14th ranked through Week 5. You will not be surprised that JK47 is the best part.

Now try to forget you know this.

14th...thats like HOF level compared to what we have become accustomed to.

[Patler]

From kids football on, players are taught that the end guy is supposed to turn the play in - never let the returner get to the sidelines. Twice now, our guy failed to do that and old gray Mason had to save the day.

Bring back Jeff Janis! That is one thing he excelled at. Crosby did a film session with Larry McCarren, and they showed Janis trashing would-be blockers. Crosby laughed and said it was just "Jeff being Jeff", regularly cutting the field width in half for returns.

[Vincenzo]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff/2019
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2019

Special Teams are a decidedly improved (though not special) 14th ranked through Week 5. You will not be surprised that JK47 is the best part.

Now try to forget you know this.
Absolutely no clue what your talking about.

[Zool]

Oh I’m gonna talk about this jinxy thread now.

[Bretsky]

it's pb's fault we just missed the punt

[pbmax]

it's pb's fault we just missed the punt

I didn't tell Guter to cut the return man for a TE who I don't think played on offense. I wonder if Graham or Lewis were nicked up?

[run pMc]

I didn't tell Guter to cut the return man for a TE who I don't think played on offense. I wonder if Graham or Lewis were nicked up?

Tonyan was out and MLF didn't want to go into the game with 2 TEs. I guess Vitale is a little small to double as an H-back or play TE. Credit DET ST for seeing they had a rookie back there and testing him...it paid off for them in the way of field position and a muffed punt.

[Fritz]

I don't care about how the Packers' special teams is actually ranked; I only care about how I feel they are doing.

And I feel like they still suck. Couple of Detroit's kick returns up the middle looked pretty open, and made me nervous, and the Lions' kicker deliberately booted the ball short so the Packers' returner had to field and return the kick, meaning the Lions knew their coverage unit was better than the Packers' return unit.

[mraynrand]

Part of that is Detroit has a pretty accurate kicker. Still he did kick one oob. But I think they know the STs if the Packers are pretty raw.

[pbmax]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff/2019

13th

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2019

Sort by punt.

Shhh.

[mraynrand]

I assume Everyone knows the weapon, JK47 is the strength of the ST followed by competent Crosby. Everything else is sketchy and raw.

[Fritz]

I would agree with that analysis. Green Bay's blockers cannot, absolutely cannot, seem to get in the way of the other team's gunners. As a result, there is about zero opportunity for any kind of punt return.

The coverage units also seem pretty shaky.

This is not the component you need for a legitimate SB run.

[Joemailman]

I would agree with that analysis. Green Bay's blockers cannot, absolutely cannot, seem to get in the way of the other team's gunners. As a result, there is about zero opportunity for any kind of punt return.

The coverage units also seem pretty shaky.

This is not the component you need for a legitimate SB run.

How soon we forget that the Packers won a Super Bowl with Shawn Slocum as ST coordinator. They're not very good, but as long as they avoid the kind of major screwups they had last year, it won't matter much as long as Crosby is accurate and Scott is booming punts.

[texaspackerbacker]

We damn near didn't avoid a major screw up on a couple of those kick offs where Crosby needed to make the tackle.

[mraynrand]

Burks was a welcome return to ST last few weeks. He will of course overrun some stuff, but at least he has speed to get down the field and can lay the lumber.

[pbmax]

No update this week as you all talked too much about it and things went south.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2019

[Fosco33]

Is it time to talk about this? What’s our rank now? It has to be bottom 3rd

[Fritz]

Is it time to talk about this? What’s our rank now? It has to be bottom 3rd

Captain Kickass was giving out names earlier in the season. I nominate Tremon "East-West" Smith for one.

[Joemailman]

Is it time to talk about this? What’s our rank now? It has to be bottom 3rd

19th before today. I didn't think today was a bad day. Granted, that's based on relatively low expectations.

[Fritz]

Tremon Smith - he runs east! He runs west! He's running hard toward the sideline! Now he's going backward!

[Fosco33]

East/West released.

[texaspackerbacker]

I didn't really mind his running style all that much, but he just seemed like a fumble waiting to happen. I hope this guy Ervin is better.

[Zool]

Bring Black Travis Davis!

[Joemailman]

Rob Demovsky
ESPN Staff Writer
The Packers could use new RB Tyler Ervin, claimed off waivers Monday as NFL Network first reported, as a returner. He has a career punt-return average of 8.3 yards – which is 9.2 yards better the Packers' season average. He also has a career average of 21.1 yards on kickoff returns. He has only 5 career rushes for 15 yards and 14 catches for 91 yards in parts of four seasons with the Texans and Jaguars, who cut Ervin to make room for former Packers LB Jake Ryan to be activated off IR Saturday.

Truth stranger than fiction.

[texaspackerbacker]

That's nice, but didn't Tremon Smith have some nice stats too before he came here?

[Fritz]

Tremon Smith may sign with a team in the east, or a team in the west, but he won't go north or south.

[Patler]

That's nice, but didn't Tremon Smith have some nice stats too before he came here?

Yup, 26.8 yds/kick return on 33 returns for KC. Didn't return punts.

[run pMc]

Well, ol' Trevor's available now.

https://sports.yahoo.com/raiders-waive-wide-receiver-trevor-233425605.html
"The East Bay native fumbled on a kickoff return early in a 40-9 loss to the Kansas City Chiefs. Then the Raiders wide receiver failed to convert on fourth-down and short on a sweep that was his only offensive snap. There was a cutback lane that easily could've helped him convert, but he pushed outside for no gain and a turnover on downs."

[pbmax]

Yup, 26.8 yds/kick return on 33 returns for KC. Didn't return punts.

How could it have not worked out? :shock:

[Patler]

How could it have not worked out? :shock:

Have you seen anything that has looked like even moderately effective blocking on kick returns this year? I don't know if it will matter at all who is carrying the ball. They haven't seemed at all capable of holding up the coverage units of other teams.

[pbmax]

Have you seen anything that has looked like even moderately effective blocking on kick returns this year? I don't know if it will matter at all who is carrying the ball. They haven't seemed at all capable of holding up the coverage units of other teams.

I was joking about the stats you posted suggesting he was an experienced kick returner and but not a punt returner.

I think most folks complaints about returns are focused on punt returns. Blocking of gunners is definitely part of the problem, exacerbated by replacement level return guys.

[Patler]

I was joking about the stats you posted suggesting he was an experienced kick returner and but not a punt returner.

I think most folks complaints about returns are focused on punt returns. Blocking of gunners is definitely part of the problem, exacerbated by replacement level return guys.

I got that, I'm just not sure why they keep changing return men on both kicks and punts. I don't see that as the biggest problem on either return team, especially punts. I find it quite frustrating, actually.

[pbmax]

I got that, I'm just not sure why they keep changing return men on both kicks and punts. I don't see that as the biggest problem on either return team, especially punts. I find it quite frustrating, actually.

I am with you. I posted elsewhere that the ST issue being so long extant points to the roster composition and talent acquisition side of the equation: Ted and Gutey.

I think I posed it as a question for Mr. Silo (Murphy) to address. Could also involved the coach. The decision to allow the punter to change his drop was a colossal and avoidable mistake.

The Packers have had middling ST before, under McCarthy. Usually it was good coverage units with one or two exceptional guys (Bush or Janis) coupled with less than stellar returns.

One possibility is that they are early in a small youth movement. Dropping the veterans last year and moving to youth, there is uncertainty at key not quite starter level positions (2nd ILB, all but Adams at WR, backup safety, backup CBs). When you had Nelson, Cobb and Jones, you could afford Janis as a ST ace. Same with Woodson and Tramontana allowing Bush to perform as backup and gunner extraordinaire.

With some seasoning and weeding out, I expect you can take a flyer on a ST guy to be the third or fourth safety. Same with WR.

Blocking for returns has been bad for a long time, especially on punts. I think that might be coaching. I wonder if Packers hamper themselves by restrictions in camp?

Injuries at TE (Stormbringer and Tonyan) also have not helped ST. Vitale has been banged up too.

[pbmax]

But to answer Patler's original question, I think they are grasping for anything that might help.

The fumble was probably the last straw as it is for most coaches.

[Fritz]

I got that, I'm just not sure why they keep changing return men on both kicks and punts. I don't see that as the biggest problem on either return team, especially punts. I find it quite frustrating, actually.

While it was fun to make fun of Mr. East-West (and I think it was a valid criticism), I agree that the bigger issue is the blocking problem. The other team's gunners consistently beat their blocks and are just a-waitin' on the punt returner to make the catch. Or, in the case of kickoff returns, a returnable kick results in a line of opponents flying down the field, with no place for the returner to go.

I suppose it's easier to change returners than to change the gunners and ST players, or to fire the ST coach mid-season.

[pbmax]

Back up to league average after good punting and FG performance.

15th overall on ST after Week 13.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2019

2nd on FG/XP. 20th on kickoff coverage. 26th in kick returns, 18th in punting, 31st in punt returns.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd like to see Shepherd given another chance - maybe next season.

[Patler]

What is so frustrating for me is the consistently mediocre performances over the last bunch of seasons, despite a GM change, head coach change, even more ST coaching changes, promises for increased emphasis and a parade of returners. The overall compositions of return teams always change, because 25% or more of the roster changes every year, regardless. Some teams seem to have consistently good return teams even with similar changes. Green Bay seems to be consistently poor.

[Fritz]

Give KYPack the reins; he'll have those sumbitches shaped up in a couple weeks.

[MadtownPacker]

Give KYPack the reins; he'll have those sumbitches shaped up in a couple weeks.
But first sign UDFA and shutdown corner AntiPolarbeartank for him to coach!

[George Cumby]

But first sign UDFA and shutdown corner AntiPolarbeartank for him to coach!

I would pay good money to watch that.

[pbmax]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2019

I have no comment about the Packers currently ranking 10th for Special Teams.

:whist: :shock: :clap:

[hoosier]

Attribute it to the amazing Mason Crosby.