More Banjo: Week 6 vs Detroit

[pbmax]

I have no idea how to sum up this game. But I loved Rodgers giving the offense or O line the hang loose sign on the sideline saying its not problem, we are going to win.

You got the sense that he knew exactly how to beat that defense if someone were to run the correct route.

Most disjointed game since the opener and the turnovers and penalties as bad as Eagles.

But its a win and a close contender is back to 500.

Good win, ugly play.

[pbmax]

Scantron hyperextended his knee but came back. Allison with possible concussion and chest contusion.

Signing Baylis for this game was a bad move as the return game coughed up the ball and added nothing to the ST effort. They need the CB back.

Liked what we saw of Lazard, but he looks raw as cookie dough.

[ThunderDan]

Det - 20 rush 56 yards

Defense final held up against the run.

[RashanGary]

Adams/Lazard/ MVS just as a deep decoy on most plays
Lewis/Tonyan
Williams/Jones/Vitale

We might have just enough.... barely

[mraynrand]

Det - 20 rush 56 yards

Defense final held up against the run.

That's why Detroit went deep early. Trying to get as much as they could off going against tendency and knowing the packers can stop the run and bring pressure on 3rd and long (which happens when you can't run). Good strategy, but "The Packers have a defense."

[JohnMexico]

Best Aaron Rodgers game since maybe 2016. Even better than the Bears last year. Few of his teammates ACTIVELY contributed to adjust about losing. Shephard is getting the pink slip.

Cant ignore the ugliness that ensued at the end of the game. Booger set off the hysteria and the country followed suit. Pretty unprofessional but whatever. There was some bad reffing and it appears to be homecooking. It WAS a terrible call, but this is outrage culture at its worst.

Didnt "deserve" it. But a great show of effort, and the Lions failed to take it from start to finish.

[Joemailman]

Am I the only one who wasn't thrilled when Williams gave up the TD? I understand the reason for it, but something can always go wrong on a place kick.

[pbmax]

Det - 20 rush 56 yards

Defense final held up against the run.

And no number of Detroit wins against man coverage was going to stop that plan. They did play a little less 3 DL in the second half, but unsure of that was by design or just watching up personnel.

[ThunderDan]

Am I the only one who wasn't thrilled when Williams gave up the TD? I understand the reason for it, but something can always go wrong on a place kick.

Yes!

[RashanGary]

Aaron Rodgers played a magnificent game. He’s so steady. Bradyesque

[pbmax]

Am I the only one who wasn't thrilled when Williams gave up the TD? I understand the reason for it, but something can always go wrong on a place kick.

Its probably a very close call. FG from that distance is better than 95%. Detroit has no time left, 23-22

If he scores at 1:36, Lions have little less than 1:30 to get a TD and no TOs. If the chance they score a TD is better than 5%, it was right decision.

[RashanGary]

Best Aaron Rodgers game since maybe 2016. Even better than the Bears last year. Few of his teammates ACTIVELY contributed to adjust about losing. Shephard is getting the pink slip.

Cant ignore the ugliness that ensued at the end of the game. Booger set off the hysteria and the country followed suit. Pretty unprofessional but whatever. There was some bad reffing and it appears to be homecooking. It WAS a terrible call, but this is outrage culture at its worst.

Didnt "deserve" it. But a great show of effort, and the Lions failed to take it from start to finish.

Great Rodgers game. Booger was awful. Sounded like he was crying

[pbmax]

I am not being dumb about that last call. Bach got his hand on the facemask for a moment and the Lions defender got his whole hand into Bach, right? Same play?

I find that play less controversial that the earlier defensive holding called hands to the face.

[Joemailman]

Aaron Rodgers played a magnificent game. He’s so steady. Bradyesque

Great job of holding things together when little was going right.

[mraynrand]

Aaron Rodgers played a magnificent game. He’s so steady. Bradyesque

Yep. Carried the team when options started running out. Especially whatever happened to Jones. I would have liked to see a better pass to Shepherd - having to come back to that is why he slipped...

[RashanGary]

Great job of holding things together when little was going right.

Lafleur is kind of an ass hole to Rodgers. He never gives him too much credit. But after this game, Lafleur was gushing.

[Zool]

Lafleur is kind of an ass hole to Rodgers. He never gives him too much credit. But after this game, Lafleur was gushing.

Isn’t glowing praise from the rest of the world enough?

[RashanGary]

Lazard blocks well too. He’s so tough. He looks like he’s got some damn good hands too. He might be a really nice fit for this offense. Looks like we have to be balanced this year. Helps to have blocking from the WR position if that’s the case....

Maybe move Adams to slot sometimes??

[RashanGary]

Isn’t glowing praise from the rest of the world enough?

I do think he holds back for that reason. He pushes Aaron hard. But he let it slip after the game.

[Gotarace]

Lafleur is kind of an ass hole to Rodgers. He never gives him too much credit. But after this game, Lafleur was gushing.
He doesn't have too with RashanGary Around...

[RashanGary]

One thing I like about Jones, he runs really well from the gun.

I like Williams toughness and one cut ability on either outside or inside zone.

[Zool]

I do think he holds back for that reason. He pushes Aaron hard. But he let it slip after the game.

Maybe someone needs to call him out on shit.

[mraynrand]

Isn’t glowing praise from the rest of the world enough?

The world is not enough

[RashanGary]

He doesn't have too with RashanGary Around...

Rodgers has taken a ton of flack. A ton. From me. I was wrong so I just call it as I see it.

[RashanGary]

Maybe someone needs to call him out on shit.

Maybe that’s why Aaron seems so different you’re saying??

Maybe.

[Radagast]

https://www.phrases.org.uk/images/bandwagon.jpg
https://www.musicvictoria.com.au/assets/news/Jump_On_The_Bandwagon_1.jpg

https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_12_desktop/packers/hmy45mpwlexrv73zwhg1https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_person_squared_mobile/f_auto/packers/ffxbkknfxeqltemjsbew

[pbmax]

63 net yards yielded by D in second half.

[RashanGary]

https://www.phrases.org.uk/images/bandwagon.jpg
https://www.musicvictoria.com.au/assets/news/Jump_On_The_Bandwagon_1.jpg

https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_12_desktop/packers/hmy45mpwlexrv73zwhg1https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_person_squared_mobile/f_auto/packers/ffxbkknfxeqltemjsbew

I’m on. I was pissed at Jones today and he looked mentally rattled. He looked scared or something. But he can pull it together. I like having both of them.

[RashanGary]

63 net yards yielded by D in second half.

Wow!

[Radagast]

Am I the only one who wasn't thrilled when Williams gave up the TD? I understand the reason for it, but something can always go wrong on a place kick.


Yes Joe, you are !

[pbmax]

Rodgers asked the WR coach (Whitted) if 13 could come into the game.

Hard to hear question but I think Rodgers said 13 told him what routes he wanted to run. Rodgers apparently thought this was cheeky but a good sign of confidence.

[red]

Am I the only one who wasn't thrilled when Williams gave up the TD? I understand the reason for it, but something can always go wrong on a place kick.

i loved it

[mraynrand]

i loved it

It was super smart, is the correct call (using up clock) and yet, it makes you a smidge nervous. I was at that Bears game in '99 and the final kick got blocked and the Pack lost. That's a gut punch man. (still, it led to Ray Rhodes being fired, so there's that...)

[pbmax]

@WesHod
Mason Crosby said he and long snapper Hunter Bradley had been talking about doing a Lambeau Leap since last year.

"If you kind of saw, (Hunter) had gone through the line and I see him, and it was like, ‘Oh, this is happening now.’" #Packers

[Radagast]

Where is Tex when you really want him ?

[call_me_ishmael]

Great Rodgers game. Booger was awful. Sounded like he was crying

He was right, though. Rodgers and the Packers were gifted this one big time. Those were truly awful calls.

I wouldn't object to Gooter pulling the Anti-TT and sending a message and cutting Shepherd tomorrow. I know he was the pre-season darling but 6th receivers are a dime a dozen. Unless they think he is special - which he probably isn't likely to be - I'd like to see him cut simply to light a fire.

[mraynrand]

Where is Tex when you really want him ?

some questions answer themselves

[RashanGary]

Bakh said the guy had his hand in his throat all night. When I think about it, he does grab the jersey, but then he shoves his fist right in the OTs throat but thinks he should get away with it cuz he’s also gripping the jersey. Its a veteran move. Savvy by flowers. But he is the throat punching him in a sneaky way and that is illegal hands to to the face.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1183959650175205378/nNWKUuXm?format=jpg&name=medium

Mad.

[texaspackerbacker]

Where is Tex when you really want him ?

You Rang? I never post during the game, and when my wife got home from work, we watched the replay. That and a few other things, so I've been busy.

A whole helluva lot of things went wrong tonight, but we still won. A win is a win is a win.

If I was a Detroit fan, I'd be whining my ass off about officiating - the two probable bad calls on hands to the face and the no call PI on Redmond. The way I look at it, though, we had seven points stolen - just given to Detroit on the 4th and goal. And there was similar no call on PI earlier in the game where the Lions DB did the same thing that Redmond didn't get called for. And heaven knows, the Packers have gotten shafted enough times in other games - they were undoubtedly owed one - or a dozen.

I'm not even gonna comment on this silly soap opera shit about Rodgers and LaFleur.

I'll save the rest of my comments for Studs and Duds or Egotists and Egoists. It's getting late.

[mraynrand]

If I was a Detroit fan, I'd be whining my ass off about officiating

Never - not you! :)

[SkinBasket]

Bakh said the guy had his hand in his throat all night. When I think about it, he does grab the jersey, but then he shoves his fist right in the OTs throat but thinks he should get away with it cuz he’s also gripping the jersey. Its a veteran move. Savvy by flowers. But he is the throat punching him in a sneaky way and that is illegal hands to to the face.

This is exactly what I mansplained to my wife last night. I’m assuming our coaches, and perhaps others previously have brought Flowers “move” to their or the leagues attention and this was the result - officials calling a player for a choke.

And the other guy crying about the hit on Allison is as big a fucktard as Booger. The official explanation after the game said it all. It don’t matter if you’re going after the ball. You hit another player in the head asshole and even if you had intercepted that ball, you still would have been called for hitting him in the head, because the penalty was for... hitting him in the fucking head you crybaby loser. And all you apologists can go fuck yourselfs you bunch of hormonally deficient pussies.

Hard to believe those announcers were the best espn can do for a national broadcast.

[Zool]

It’s also pretty clear on the replay of the concussion hit, he stops playing the ball before it gets there because he’s anticipating contact. Literally turns his head and shoulder. This isn’t rocket science. Stop hitting people in the head.

[mraynrand]

This is exactly what I mansplained to my wife last night. I’m assuming our coaches, and perhaps others previously have brought Flowers “move” to their or the leagues attention and this was the result - officials calling a player for a choke.

There's always that game-within-a-game of talking with the refs. Everyone alerts the refs to stuff happening between snaps, at commercial breaks, etc. etc. And the refs know about players too. After all, most of these refs have actually reffed OTHER NFL games and know which players do what, etc. The ESPN crew (and most broadcast crews) too often come across as though they're watching the game for the first time.

[mraynrand]

Also, on the Redmond contact play, I don't care what those fools say, he ran his arm across the receiver's chest, but he never blocked his arms nor moved the player. It's actually a pretty damn fine defensive play. Patricia with his NE upbringing should never complain (and for all i know he didn't complain at all), considering those guys grab and hold all the time, as a matter of technique and strategy.

[Teamcheez1]

I'm not buying the supposed bad calls against Detroit.
There were numerous calls against the Packers that were just as suspect.
That's football.
Booger showed his true colors by complaining about every single call that didn't go the Lions way.

[Fosco33]

Ha! All those folks calling for PI in 4th q. Come on. The first hands to the face seemed bad but the second from refs angle would’ve been tough - give it to Bahk for acting. And maybe that was happening all game and we were bitching about it. For all the times refs have really screwed us - the Lions left tons of points out there. Six drives inside our 35 and come away with 22 pts... blaming refs w/o taking notice of the teams role is just bitching.

[pbmax]

It’s also pretty clear on the replay of the concussion hit, he stops playing the ball before it gets there because he’s anticipating contact. Literally turns his head and shoulder. This isn’t rocket science. Stop hitting people in the head.

Same thing in a college game this weekend, I forget who, might have been the Badgers. Defender is in classic spear position but never pulls off when runner goes to ground. Just a plain old fashioned spear.

[pbmax]

Also, on the Redmond contact play, I don't care what those fools say, he ran his arm across the receiver's chest, but he never blocked his arms nor moved the player. It's actually a pretty damn fine defensive play. Patricia with his NE upbringing should never complain (and for all i know he didn't complain at all), considering those guys grab and hold all the time, as a matter of technique and strategy.

It was the easiest of all the non calls on PI last night. Its dramatic looking because he arm travels all the way across, but it doesn't affect the receiver much at all.

[ThunderDan]

If you are not calling the Det player for shoving Jones in the chest and putting him on the ground, you are not calling Redmond for running his arm across the Det WR's chest.

[Fosco33]

Didn’t jones get pushed (and fell down) on a route too? There are probably a dozen non calls every game. Let them play.

[pbmax]

If you are not calling the Det player for shoving Jones in the chest and putting him on the ground, you are not calling Redmond for running his arm across the Det WR's chest.

Detroit was operating with the normal 10 yard chuck zone that the Patriots use.

[pbmax]

Only thing better would have been throw to outside shoulder so he could ask the cheerleader out that night.


https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1183999190311096320/AmwWIyXH?format=jpg&name=small

[pbmax]

Caught it with his eyes shut.


https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_12_desktop/f_auto/packers/b0ccvmgybh9egoz3tjvw.jpg

[texaspackerbacker]

It seemed like the refs had their minds made up to be lax on calling pass interference the whole game - both teams. One of the few good points Ol' Booger made was about Patricia copying Belichek (and I suppose the Packers and pretty much all teams do this) studying the tendencies of officials going into the game.

[Radagast]

Bakh said the guy had his hand in his throat all night. When I think about it, he does grab the jersey, but then he shoves his fist right in the OTs throat but thinks he should get away with it cuz he’s also gripping the jersey. Its a veteran move. Savvy by flowers. But he is the throat punching him in a sneaky way and that is illegal hands to to the face.

RG is quite right about Mr.Flowers. He was using a sneaky move to try to gain an advantage on LT David Bakhtiari. The official was most correct to call it too. I won't be surprised to see this move flagged in more league games moving forward.

As for Tex, by now he should have a greater appreciation for the GB running game.

[texaspackerbacker]

RG is quite right about Mr.Flowers. He was using a sneaky move to try to gain an advantage on LT David Bakhtiari. The official was most correct to call it too. I won't be surprised to see this move flagged in more league games moving forward.

As for Tex, by now he should have a greater appreciation for the GB running game.

You haven't been paying attention hahahaha. I do have a degree of greater appreciation for the running game. HOWEVER, the very first series that the Packers had the ball, what did they do? Run it twice, and then a throw by necessity on third down - catchable but dropped, then punt. THAT to me, typifies the run-first mentality that so many seem to crave. I was ranting at the TV about that time calling it (and LaFleur) stupid.

Of course, we had good success running the ball later - I will say good, not great. The fact is, though, it was the passing success of Rodgers or at least the threat of it that made that running game possible. Another point damn Booger made (and hell yeah, I hate him as much as anybody) was that the Packers running game worked best, maybe only worked, if we had a lot of WRs and it looked like we were set up for a pass play. Does anybody seriously think that would have been possible with a lesser QB, especially with this O Line which rose all the way up to mediocre plus one last night?

[pbmax]

Its obvious that this team, Jones or Williams, runs better inside. No reason to stop featuring it.

[pbmax]

Is hands to the throat a hands to the face penalty? Is that part of the of the rule?

Good to know, its a penalty. All the Lions fans and radio guys can get stuffed.


ARTICLE 7. ILLEGAL USE OF HANDS BY DEFENSE
It is a foul if a defensive player thrusts his hands or arms forward above the frame of an opponent to forcibly contact him on the neck, face, or head.

Note: Contact in close-line play is not a foul, unless it is direct and forcible, or prolonged.

Penalty: For Illegal Use of Hands by the Defense: Loss of five yards and an automatic first down.

[bobblehead]

I am not being dumb about that last call. Bach got his hand on the facemask for a moment and the Lions defender got his whole hand into Bach, right? Same play?

I find that play less controversial that the earlier defensive holding called hands to the face.

As I said before. The lions were mugging our already depleted WR all game. The TWO plays before the drive he cried about Redmon committing interference the Lions DBs should have been flagged. Never even looked for the ball. Blatant interference. I didn't hear booger cry for us. He was more biased than aikman doing a cowboy game.

[bobblehead]

Maybe that’s why Aaron seems so different you’re saying??

Maybe.

Look at the usage of RB/TE in the first 2 games compared to now. I think the flower got through to Rodgers. Last night the first several drives were built around RB/TE in the pass game and once the D sagged a bit it was bombs away.

[pbmax]

Look at the usage of RB/TE in the first 2 games compared to now. I think the flower got through to Rodgers. Last night the first several drives were built around RB/TE in the pass game and once the D sagged a bit it was bombs away.

Not since Rodgers was a rookie starter has this offense consisted of such short plays for drives. Whatever LaFleur's offense eventually becomes, I will always remember this first.

Well, after audible-gate.

[bobblehead]

He was right, though. Rodgers and the Packers were gifted this one big time. Those were truly awful calls.

I wouldn't object to Gooter pulling the Anti-TT and sending a message and cutting Shepherd tomorrow. I know he was the pre-season darling but 6th receivers are a dime a dozen. Unless they think he is special - which he probably isn't likely to be - I'd like to see him cut simply to light a fire.

1) If they never make the last call we kick a FG and a Lions team that hadn't moved the ball all half has to move it to FG range.

2) We got hosed all game long. They got hosed 3 times. We were not gifted anything....although we tried to gift the lions with all of our turnovers.

[bobblehead]

This is exactly what I mansplained to my wife last night. I’m assuming our coaches, and perhaps others previously have brought Flowers “move” to their or the leagues attention and this was the result - officials calling a player for a choke.

And the other guy crying about the hit on Allison is as big a fucktard as Booger. The official explanation after the game said it all. It don’t matter if you’re going after the ball. You hit another player in the head asshole and even if you had intercepted that ball, you still would have been called for hitting him in the head, because the penalty was for... hitting him in the fucking head you crybaby loser. And all you apologists can go fuck yourselfs you bunch of hormonally deficient pussies.

Hard to believe those announcers were the best espn can do for a national broadcast.

Welcome back dick!!!

[bobblehead]

You haven't been paying attention hahahaha. I do have a degree of greater appreciation for the running game. HOWEVER, the very first series that the Packers had the ball, what did they do? Run it twice, and then a throw by necessity on third down - catchable but dropped, then punt. THAT to me, typifies the run-first mentality that so many seem to crave. I was ranting at the TV about that time calling it (and LaFleur) stupid.

Of course, we had good success running the ball later - I will say good, not great. The fact is, though, it was the passing success of Rodgers or at least the threat of it that made that running game possible. Another point damn Booger made (and hell yeah, I hate him as much as anybody) was that the Packers running game worked best, maybe only worked, if we had a lot of WRs and it looked like we were set up for a pass play. Does anybody seriously think that would have been possible with a lesser QB, especially with this O Line which rose all the way up to mediocre plus one last night?

For the 50th time, I don't want to be the '85 Redskins. I want to run effectively/often enough to keep people off our HOF QB.

[mraynrand]

One thing about last night is that Patty Genius II might be a tough out going forward. They had a good game plan going in to exploit House and Sullivan. That’s a pretty good team. Glad Packers had the horses and a good defensive mind in Poutine to adjust. Can’t wait to look at the all 22s after the first deep shots.

[mraynrand]

This is exactly what I mansplained to my wife last night. I’m assuming our coaches, and perhaps others previously have brought Flowers “move” to their or the leagues attention and this was the result - officials calling a player for a choke.

And the other guy crying about the hit on Allison is as big a fucktard as Booger. The official explanation after the game said it all. It don’t matter if you’re going after the ball. You hit another player in the head asshole and even if you had intercepted that ball, you still would have been called for hitting him in the head, because the penalty was for... hitting him in the fucking head you crybaby loser. And all you apologists can go fuck yourselfs you bunch of hormonally deficient pussies.

Hard to believe those announcers were the best espn can do for a national broadcast.

It’s like listening to Ferrell.

Prob coulda called head shots on Jones as well.

[run pMc]

Sheppard might get cut after last night. I wonder if with G-Mo's injury they give him one last chance.
Lazard stepped up, MVS had a couple decent plays. G-Mo had a rough game pre-injury, and then it got worse for him.
Graham was up and down -- had some good catches and blocks (!) but had at least one drop IIRC.
Marcedes seems like as much of a threat as Graham. Good to see the TE/RBs involved and Rodgers threw to 9 players.

Rodgers and MLF made chicken salad out of you know what.

Jamaal played like a man last night, he was fired up to be back and MLF was smart to feature him. A.Jones had a bad game with fumbles, drop, slips, etc.

Defense played a lot of bend-don't-break with good RZ defense, and they did a nice job of minimizing DET's O in the 2nd half given the field position advantages they had. If they keep Clay/Perry and don't sign the Smiths I think they'd have given up 34 and lost this game.
Will Redmond is getting better at safety, although he got fooled badly on the opening fleaflicker. King played hurt and had some struggles, but overall I thought he and especially Alexander had tight coverage last night. Jaire basically shut Marvin Jones down.

Winning this game despite being -3 in turnovers is big. They're finding ways to win, even if it's just with dumpoffs to the backs to move the chains.
I thought the hit on Allison was a penalty, so don't understand the complaint there...helmet-to-helmet is a penalty regardless of intent. I've seen grazing hits get called, that was a full on hit. The penalties to Flowers at the time I thought were bad calls and happy gifts for the home team, but he was definitely up at the top of his jersey near Bahk's throat and Bahk's head was reared back, so maybe that's what the ref was calling. Nobody wants games decided by the refs, especially when they are part-time employees of a multi-billion dollar business.

Big redemption game for Crosby after last year...the Lambeau Leap was fun.

3-0 in the division gives them a leg up on the rest. It's a win and I'll take it. They gotta get healthy and ready for Gruden.

[Fritz]

Sheppard might get cut after last night. I wonder if with G-Mo's injury they give him one last chance.
Lazard stepped up, MVS had a couple decent plays. G-Mo had a rough game pre-injury, and then it got worse for him.
Graham was up and down -- had some good catches and blocks (!) but had at least one drop IIRC.
Marcedes seems like as much of a threat as Graham. Good to see the TE/RBs involved and Rodgers threw to 9 players.

Rodgers and MLF made chicken salad out of you know what.

Jamaal played like a man last night, he was fired up to be back and MLF was smart to feature him. A.Jones had a bad game with fumbles, drop, slips, etc.

Defense played a lot of bend-don't-break with good RZ defense, and they did a nice job of minimizing DET's O in the 2nd half given the field position advantages they had. If they keep Clay/Perry and don't sign the Smiths I think they'd have given up 34 and lost this game.
Will Redmond is getting better at safety, although he got fooled badly on the opening fleaflicker. King played hurt and had some struggles, but overall I thought he and especially Alexander had tight coverage last night. Jaire basically shut Marvin Jones down.

Winning this game despite being -3 in turnovers is big. They're finding ways to win, even if it's just with dumpoffs to the backs to move the chains.
I thought the hit on Allison was a penalty, so don't understand the complaint there...helmet-to-helmet is a penalty regardless of intent. I've seen grazing hits get called, that was a full on hit. The penalties to Flowers at the time I thought were bad calls and happy gifts for the home team, but he was definitely up at the top of his jersey near Bahk's throat and Bahk's head was reared back, so maybe that's what the ref was calling. Nobody wants games decided by the refs, especially when they are part-time employees of a multi-billion dollar business.

Big redemption game for Crosby after last year...the Lambeau Leap was fun.

3-0 in the division gives them a leg up on the rest. It's a win and I'll take it. They gotta get healthy and ready for Gruden.


While I like this take, I'd like to offer a slightly different one.

What Rodgers said last night rung true for me - this didn't feel like a win. In fact, what it seemed to me to be was a very Mike McCarthy-esque post-2013 win: the other team comes out prepared and wired, and the Packers come out like they just stumbled out of bed fifteen minutes ago. "Huh? What? What did they just do?"

Like those MM teams, there were the turnovers. You turn the ball over three times, yet somehow you're magically still in the game. Rodgers drops back to pass, and waits . . . and waits . . . and shuffles around . . . and flings the ball into the sideline bench. But then, finally, Rodgers maneuvers the team down the field a couple times, aided by some fortuitous refereeing, and Crosby boots it through.

It was kind of the same feeling as going to a prostitute - you got off, but you feel a little ashamed and dirty afterward. And when your friends give you a hard time about it, you get a little defensive.

On the plus side, the defense played the run well. I thought the Leos could have made more out of the run at the end of the game - Johnson starting getting six or seven yards a pop. But they abandoned the run.

Also, I am not a believer in cutting Darius Shepard to "send a message." Send a message to whom? The other ten guys on the bottom of the roster? Kevin King's not going to say to himself, "Gee, I played a shit first quarter, I better pick it up or I'm getting cut." Or Aaron Jones - will he see that Shepard got cut and say, "Geez, I'd better start catching those easy TD throws, and stop fumbling, or I'm outta here"?

Nah. Cut Shepard cuz he sucks.

Speaking of that, as much as I don't like Tank, I do think he's right about Allison. I defended Allison occasionally, but this season has been his chance to shine, and he hasn't. Dropped a few balls this season - more than is the occasional, okay drop - and he doesn't get open well.

And Lewis, at this point in their respective careers, is maybe a better player and receiver than Jimmy Graham?

And why is no one bitching about what seems the solid fact that on the Lions's sole touchdown, the running back absolutely did not get the ball across the plane of the goal line?

[pbmax]

"It didn't feel like a win, until about the end." Let's not let the other version of this quote start to bolster the complainers.

https://www.espn.com/watch/player?id=27848487

I get the MM comparison with the early game flow, but really that came down to a fumble on a drive where they were moving. And the halftime score was within 3 after a brutal start.

The most McCarthy thing was settling for a FG at the end of the half. At least it wasn't a 50 yarder.

The least McCarthy thing was long, multi-play drives.

On thing I will say about LaFleur, his clock management is light years ahead of what we have seen before.

[call_me_ishmael]

1) If they never make the last call we kick a FG and a Lions team that hadn't moved the ball all half has to move it to FG range.

2) We got hosed all game long. They got hosed 3 times. We were not gifted anything....although we tried to gift the lions with all of our turnovers.

The touchdown drive was extended via a terrible penalty. Agree to disagree on this one. A win is a win. It balances out over time. But there is no question that the Packers were benefactors of some timely awful calls last night.

[deake]

What does the rule say, is it just face or does it say neck and face. He clearly had his hand at the neck. It would seem that the neck area should be protected.

[Fritz]

"It didn't feel like a win, until about the end." Let's not let the other version of this quote start to bolster the complainers.

https://www.espn.com/watch/player?id=27848487

I get the MM comparison with the early game flow, but really that came down to a fumble on a drive where they were moving. And the halftime score was within 3 after a brutal start.

The most McCarthy thing was settling for a FG at the end of the half. At least it wasn't a 50 yarder.

The least McCarthy thing was long, multi-play drives.

On thing I will say about LaFleur, his clock management is light years ahead of what we have seen before.

Clearly, PB, you are not yet skilled at using the internet.

Funny, but I thought that as the game went on, there were stretches that seemed very MM-ish, mostly in terms of Rodgers hanging on to the ball. I thought the Packers could learn by watching film of the first quarter Lions' offense how to keep a defense on its heels simply by moving with alacrity between plays.

I'm not as down as I sounded about the win - it just felt like an MM win, but I also liked some of what I saw - the use of the run game, successfully, was a plus (though I wanted even a bit more running). In addition, the Smith Brothers are such a tremendous upgrade over Matthews/Perry that it's actually a pleasure to watch them work on a third and long, as opposed to the dread of knowing that no distance was too great for an opposing QB to manage last year (though that was not strictly MM's fault). I also liked the run-stopping for the most part.

[pbmax]

I have temporarily lost my snark because that win was very fun and unexpected after the first quarter.

But I agree, the pass offense especially in the fourth quarter, looked very McCarthy/Rodgers. When they did run, they did so more effectively.

[pbmax]

What does the rule say, is it just face or does it say neck and face. He clearly had his hand at the neck. It would seem that the neck area should be protected.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?31134-More-Banjo-Week-6-vs-Detroit&p=1028384&viewfull=1#post1028384

The neck is out of bounds. The first call, when Flowers had a handful of jersey, was more defensive holding than illegal hands to my way of thinking.

[Fritz]

I have temporarily lost my snark because that win was very fun and unexpected after the first quarter.

But I agree, the pass offense especially in the fourth quarter, looked very McCarthy/Rodgers. When they did run, they did so more effectively.

I really wanted The Flower to run a bit more in the second half, as it was working pretty well. Jamaal Williams seemed to be getting at least five or six yards a pop. And by the way, he played very well yesterday.

[mraynrand]

I liked the 3 OLB look. Both Siths on the same side and Fackrell on the other. Or mix it up.


I’m not correcting the typo.

[pbmax]

I liked the 3 OLB look. Both Siths on the same side and Fackrell on the other. Or mix it up.


I’m not correcting the typo.

You are going to want to have the Baconator out there at some point though.

[Zool]

You are going to want to have the Baconator out there at some point though.

YES!

[run pMc]

I liked the 3 OLB look. Both Siths on the same side and Fackrell on the other. Or mix it up.


I’m not correcting the typo.

Gary got some decent snaps as well. On the Zaius sack I believe Gary took on a double team which helped Z beat his man.

I agree if you cut Sheppard the message is felt differently by starters vs. backups... will be interesting to see how Gute/MLF handle it. I think they will err on the TT side and give him another chance unless he pulls a Monty.

There was a stretch where it was echoes of M3, but I felt like the backs and TEs aren't getting ignored as much. IIRC there were two 3-and-out series back to back in the 2nd half that were pretty frustrating.

Having some faith in the defense makes a big difference too...and it's nice to see Rodgers trust Lazard.

[George Cumby]

Fritz said:

It was kind of the same feeling as going to a prostitute - you got off, but you feel a little ashamed and dirty afterward. And when your friends give you a hard time about it, you get a little defensive.

Poetry.

A good take in general as well. I'd actually turned it off, too much other stuff going on to watch shitty football, and was astonished to check the score and see the Pack had won.

But Rodgers still looks like something isn't right. He still isn't getting the ball out there the way he used to. He was good for some bad balls last night.

[George Cumby]

I liked the 3 OLB look. Both Siths on the same side and Fackrell on the other. Or mix it up.


I’m not correcting the typo.

There are always two.

[Cheesehead Craig]

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?31134-More-Banjo-Week-6-vs-Detroit&p=1028384&viewfull=1#post1028384

The neck is out of bounds. The first call, when Flowers had a handful of jersey, was more defensive holding than illegal hands to my way of thinking.

Flowers was shoving his closed fist into Bak's throat. Sure it's not obvious, but a sneaky vet thing to do. Bak did the sneaky vet thing and oversold it. But if you think it did nothing, grab the collar of your shirt and push and see where your knuckles end up. Right in the throat. Like I said, sneaky vet play, but Bak was sneakier.

[beveaux1]

Flowers was shoving his closed fist into Bak's throat. Sure it's not obvious, but a sneaky vet thing to do. Bak did the sneaky vet thing and oversold it. But if you think it did nothing, grab the collar of your shirt and push and see where your knuckles end up. Right in the throat. Like I said, sneaky vet play, but Bak was sneakier.

I think after the officials review those calls, they will say they were called properly. My personal opinion is that they were too ticky-tack to be called, especially at the point in the game they were called.

I also think a review would show that the non-pass interference on Redmond wouldn't have been overturned. As a Packer fan, I'm happy. As a Lions fan, I would have been enraged.

[Bretsky]

Gary got some decent snaps as well. On the Zaius sack I believe Gary took on a double team which helped Z beat his man.


Having some faith in the defense makes a big difference too...and it's nice to see Rodgers trust Lazard.


You are grasping for straws to find production out of the Baconator

Fackrell deserves to be playing more and Gary less

[Zool]

You are grasping for straws to find production out of the Baconator

Fackrell deserves to be playing more and Gary less

Fackrell doesn't set much of an edge. He's situational at best.

Someone on Monday night might have nailed it when he said The Baconater is Nick Perry. I hope he ends up better, but at the very least, he's not hurt yet.

[mraynrand]

Fackrell doesn't set much of an edge. He's situational at best.

I don't think they expect him to set an edge - not much of a run stopper. Pass rush and coverage seem to be his strengths.


Someone on Monday night might have nailed it when he said The Baconater is Nick Perry. I hope he ends up better, but at the very least, he's not hurt yet.

Again, it's pretty early on. He's not ready and there are two/three OLB ahead of him for pass rush, and plenty of run stoppers. He got 9 snaps and 20 would seem to be his tops when they need inside pass rush on passing downs. rn he is situational and a project. I expect him to eventually overtake Fackrell who got 17 snaps, but not to be a huge part of this defense.

[Zool]

Again, it's pretty early on. He's not ready and there are two/three OLB ahead of him for pass rush, and plenty of run stoppers. He got 9 snaps and 20 would seem to be his tops when they need inside pass rush on passing downs. rn he is situational and a project. I expect him to eventually overtake Fackrell who got 17 snaps, but not to be a huge part of this defense.

Hope you're right. He's kinda Nick Perry-esque right now. He has one move and it's pretty effective at getting pressure. I always thought you can do a lot worse than Perry if he would ever stay healthy.

[pbmax]

You can see evidence of his strength in his bull rush. But he's not Suh's level with it, where he will just throw the OT at the QB's feet. He needs work on a finishing move off it.

[pbmax]

All Hail the Luxury Automobile:

@mattschneidman
LaFleur on Marcedes Lewis: "I think he was the first one to put his arm around Shep after one of his miscues. I can't speak enough about the leader he is for this football team."

[Cheesehead Craig]

All Hail the Luxury Automobile:

@mattschneidman
LaFleur on Marcedes Lewis: "I think he was the first one to put his arm around Shep after one of his miscues. I can't speak enough about the leader he is for this football team."

Great. He can be the one to break the news to Shep that he's cut then.

[Fritz]

Great. He can be the one to break the news to Shep that he's cut then.

Okay, that's just funny.

And all this leadership-schmeadership stuff - bah, humbug. It's not that the team is closer-knit now, or there's more cameraderie, or whatever they're saying.

It's that Smith and Smith are out there instead of Matthews and Perry/Fackrell.

With last year's defensive OLB tandem playing Monday night, the Lions would not have been sacked on big third downs. Instead, Stafford would have stood back, scanned the field, and zipped a touchdown completion to Jones or Golladay or Hockensen. Some of those five field goals would have been touchdowns, and the Packers would have lost. The final score would've been 30 - 23 or something.

They didn't win because they have better chemistry than they did last year. They won because they have better talent.

[pbmax]

They didn't win because they have better chemistry than they did last year. They won because they have better healthy talent.

FIFY. That is at least as important as talent compared to last year.

[pbmax]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27852650/nfl-second-flag-lions-de-trey-flowers-was-error

NFL Troy Vincent says the second flag on Flowers was not a good call.

[bobblehead]

What Rodgers said last night rung true for me - this didn't feel like a win. In fact, what it seemed to me to be was a very Mike McCarthy-esque post-2013 win: the other team comes out prepared and wired, and the Packers come out like they just stumbled out of bed fifteen minutes ago. "Huh? What? What did they just do?"

While I get your take, let me offer a glass half full.

We played a division rival coming off a bye after winning a huge NFC game against a team many thought will contend for the Owl. We won. The end.

Even though I said the end, I'll offer more. We made a few uncharacteristic mistakes, but Rodgers is buying into the Flower offense. Its letting our D stay off the field for more than 6 minutes at a time. Its wearing down other teams momentum and sapping their energy. You win games this way. MM being obsessed with big plays on both sides of the ball caused our D to spend way to much time on the field, the O off the field, and the entire team feeling out of sorts.

We only scored 23 last night, but in many ways it was better than games we scored 31 with MM. Big play offenses occasionally win super Owls, but generally its ball control through good mix of run, short pass, long pass and strong D that win. We did that. We have done that better each week. I'm very optimistic.

[bobblehead]

The touchdown drive was extended via a terrible penalty. Agree to disagree on this one. A win is a win. It balances out over time. But there is no question that the Packers were benefactors of some timely awful calls last night.

Watch the slow mo replay some guy put up to prove it wasn't a penalty. Yes, Trey had hold of the jersey collar. He also lunged, not once, but twice putting his fist into Bak's chin. That is a penalty no matter what some moron named booger thinks. You don't get to punch the chin just because you have a hold of the jersey.

[bobblehead]

Fackrell doesn't set much of an edge. He's situational at best.

Someone on Monday night might have nailed it when he said The Baconater is Nick Perry. I hope he ends up better, but at the very least, he's not hurt yet.

That was me. He is Perry now. He has time to get better. He sets a good edge and has a nice bull rush. He needs to add some violent hands and an inside/outside counter. If he can add either of those (hands is most likely for him. Make him a mini Cameron Wake) he can be special. If he adds both....well, dare to dream.

[call_me_ishmael]

Baconator is an exceptional nickname for Gary lol. I love it!

[bobblehead]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27852650/nfl-second-flag-lions-de-trey-flowers-was-error

NFL Troy Vincent says the second flag on Flowers was not a good call.

But he also said the first one WAS. I stand by what I said. If we kicked that FG at 1:30 and kicked off we still win that game. Detroit got 60 some yards the entire second half.

Also in that article Bak says he was getting his throat punched all game. I don't doubt it as he isn't the complaining type.

[pbmax]

But he also said the first one WAS. I stand by what I said. If we kicked that FG at 1:30 and kicked off we still win that game. Detroit got 60 some yards the entire second half.

Also in that article Bak says he was getting his throat punched all game. I don't doubt it as he isn't the complaining type.

Agree. The second penalty wasn't as crucial as the first.

[pbmax]

I muted the commentary so as not to mess with my determination to enjoy that win fully, but here is a video with both plays in it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000001065931/NFL-Total-Access-crew-reacts-to-Flowers-illegal-use-of-hands-penalties

I am curious why this is not a defensive hold?

[George Cumby]

I missed how “Baconator” got hung on Gary. Help a brother out?

[Zool]

I missed how “Baconator” got hung on Gary. Help a brother out?

He makes everyone else better...like bacon....aka Bac-Os....aka The Baconator

[Guiness]

Detroit was operating with the normal 10 yard chuck zone that the Patriots use.

How far downfield was Jones on that play? They showed a replay and I was watching for the push - not sure if he was barely off the line was he a couple strides downfield.

I did notice Anthony didn't have much to say about that though.

[George Cumby]

He makes everyone else better...like bacon....aka Bac-Os....aka The Baconator

Ty

[pbmax]

How far downfield was Jones on that play? They showed a replay and I was watching for the push - not sure if he was barely off the line was he a couple strides downfield.

I did notice Anthony didn't have much to say about that though.

He was at least five yards past.

[call_me_ishmael]

Could both of the Smiths make the pro-bowl this year? They've done the rare thing for free agents and that is exceeded expectations and played to the level of their contracts. Very impressive thus far.

[Radagast]

Could both of the Smiths make the pro-bowl this year? They've done the rare thing for free agents and that is exceeded expectations and played to the level of their contracts. Very impressive thus far.

I'm not into analytics, but Sacks and tackles made, and such show up on the pro bowl ballets. As a result, those with the big numbers garner the most votes. I don't know every player, so I go by those numbers to make my voting choices. I do look at the stats periodically during the season, but I'm not an analytics follower. Some on his site are and they could say how well the Smiths stand up as compared to the rest of the league.

Perhaps someone will post those numbers for all to read !

[bobblehead]

I muted the commentary so as not to mess with my determination to enjoy that win fully, but here is a video with both plays in it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000001065931/NFL-Total-Access-crew-reacts-to-Flowers-illegal-use-of-hands-penalties

I am curious why this is not a defensive hold?

O and D can grab jersey and shoulder pad INSIDE the shoulders as long as they don't pull on them as either player attempts to disengage. (to the best of my understanding.)

[bobblehead]

How far downfield was Jones on that play? They showed a replay and I was watching for the push - not sure if he was barely off the line was he a couple strides downfield.

I did notice Anthony didn't have much to say about that though.

On the very next play Kumerow tries to come back for a back shoulder catch...the DB grabs him and drags him down preventing the catch. Nothing said about that either. Next drive Redmond brushes his arm across the chest while looking and playing the ball...FOUL FOUL.... GB cheats!!!

[RashanGary]

That one where the defender knocked Jones down, booger said, “I didn’t see anything there” lol!!!

He bet on the game.

[Zool]

Could both of the Smiths make the pro-bowl this year? They've done the rare thing for free agents and that is exceeded expectations and played to the level of their contracts. Very impressive thus far.

Won't matter, they will skip it anyway.

[texaspackerbacker]

What makes you say that?

[pbmax]

What makes you say that?

Teams competing in the Superb Owl don't have to participate in the Pro Bowl.

[RashanGary]

The prob Owl

Sounds creepy

[texaspackerbacker]

Teams competing in the Superb Owl don't have to participate in the Pro Bowl.

Oh yeah hahahahaha. That idea escaped me.