The Packers this Week

[Radagast]

As we approach the week 7 game against the Raiders, I see members trying to post their views on the Packers strengths and perceived weaknesses. Some focus on the receivers as injury and player additions take place. They are so narrowly centered upon the success or lack of success of the passing game that they fail to give the improved running game the credit it deserves.

GB has added WR Ryan Grant to the team. With Adams and Allison sidelined, adding a veteran WR could help. I was opposed to such a move as I feared that GB might sacrifice too much to acquire a #1 or #2 WR to make up for the players sidelined. Grant however is a 3rd to 5th WR and I don't expect him to upset the chemistry that has been building sense TC first opened back in July.

The new added weight given to the running game has supplied balance that has been undervalued for too long. The run blocking has improved this season and shows with the success that Jones and Williams have had. Still the passing game, with whoever is healthy, does need to improve and not wait on the return of those injured. I'm quite sure that HC LaFleur is also very aware of the need to give Rodgers more /better open targets to pass the ball to.

I'll address other areas of interest in future post.

[mraynrand]

I’d like to hear more about this ‘chemistry’ that has been building among the WRs ‘sense’ training camp.

[texaspackerbacker]

I tend to agree with you, Radagast, about Grant - not so much about the chemistry as about the cost of signing or heaven forbid, trading for a high price WR like Green. Getting Grant was a good compromise between doing nothing and signing some over-priced probably over-the-hill type guy.

[run pMc]

Agree with Tex on this

Getting Grant was a good compromise between doing nothing and signing some over-priced probably over-the-hill type guy.

As far as the running game goes, I think the inside zone is working much better right now, probably because they ran it some with M3 so it's not as new. I also think it suits Jamaal better, but Jones is dynamic enough to run outside zone too. I think they will get better at it.
What I really liked is that MLF continued to run the ball after being down 10 early to DET. I think having a better defense gives them confidence that they don't have to get into a passing game shootout if they fall behind 2 scores early.

Not suggesting they go run-heavy overall as an offense, but I do like the idea of keeping defenses honest if not off-balance, and keeping the offense in managable down/distances. Most teams -- especially the Packers -- suck at converting 3rd and long.

[pbmax]

Jones is worse at outside zone. He is too much of a hesitation and move guy. Almost all his outside zone carries either end up in a pile OR bounced so far outside he was run past his blocking.

[mraynrand]

Jones is worse at outside zone. He is too much of a hesitation and move guy. Almost all his outside zone carries either end up in a pile OR bounced so far outside he was run past his blocking.

Speedy rushes to the edge seem to be his better "OZ" runs.

[pbmax]

Outside Zone, keep moving and trust a turn will be there.


https://media.giphy.com/media/QFL69yYV491Wo/giphy.gif

[pbmax]

Speedy rushes to the edge seem to be his better "OZ" runs.

Yes. He can get the corner but Outside Zone is asking something else. Its why all those guys get drafted out of the second round. Don't need top end speed or quickness.

[pbmax]

Find a hole running and keep looking (Jones).


https://media.giphy.com/media/5bWMcMvNZHYoE/giphy.gif

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't think it's so much a matter of Jones being worse on outside zone runs as it is worse blocking. Linsley, Jenkins, and maybe Turner have actually opened holes. The Tackles not so much.

Regarding that maze thing above, isn't that what the zone blocking scheme is supposed to prevent - just one cut and go, don't worry about all that bouncing and running to daylight.

[pbmax]

I don't think it's so much a matter of Jones being worse on outside zone runs as it is worse blocking. Linsley, Jenkins, and maybe Turner have actually opened holes. The Tackles not so much.

Regarding that maze thing above, isn't that what the zone blocking scheme is supposed to prevent - just one cut and go, don't worry about all that bouncing and running to daylight.

First paragraph, you are correct about Inside blocking being better for the run. A lot of credit to LEEERoy Jenkins and Lucas Patrick, who was in there when it started to break open (an underrated thing: if they planned inside stuff and Linsley gets hurt against Dallas and it doesn't work, where would the offense be?)

But Jamaal Williams has had more success in outside zone than Jones. He is just more willing to pop his way through a seam on target. Jones is looking for something else.

As for the mazes, the second (Jones) is all about starting stopping and changes of direction while in the hole. The first maze (Williams and zone) is to follow a path and hope there is a gap at the end of the path.

[Radagast]

Staying with the discussion on the Packers Offense, I've heard little to nothing about run vs pass blocking. Also opinions on each TE and their play so far and moving forward. And lets hear a little love for those WRs that have stepped up and bravely stepped in for the injured.

How well is the sweep pass play working? Which pass pattern/WR is working the best so far? What pass patters/s would you like to see more of?

[RashanGary]

I come to packerrats because I enjoy the interactions between radagast and whoever he’s belittling, but even moreso to absorb mraynrands responses to said conversations.


But in all seriousness, I’m with radagast on the pass blocking vs run blocking. Turner and Jenkins are huge run blocking upgrades over Taylor and the RG turnstile of yesteryear. That, combined with the two young running backs becoming reliable veteran guys who can be counted on really has opened up the balanced nature of this offense and helps to minimize what could be seen as a insurmountable obstacle to our offenses success.

There are several ways to skin a cat. We’ve come accustomed to the Packers being pass first, almost pass only, but that history means nothing. We’re in the here and now. Here and now, we run and pass equally well regardless of what the last 10 years of Packer teams have done.

[bobblehead]

Jones is worse at outside zone. He is too much of a hesitation and move guy. Almost all his outside zone carries either end up in a pile OR bounced so far outside he was run past his blocking.

Interestingly Jonathon Taylor is likely to be available towards the back half of the 1st. He is Jones with top end speed. If we continue to run inside zone what a fit he would be as he continues to improve as a receiver.

Speaking of RB acting as receivers, I am absolutely loving Rodgers hitting Jones and Williams underneath for 7-8 yard gains. As the defense has reacted to take them away he has been able to take the shots downfield he loves. Our WR are not GREAT, but an HOF QB can make them look pretty good.

[bobblehead]

I come to packerrats because I enjoy the interactions between radagast and whoever he’s belittling, but even moreso to absorb mraynrands responses to said conversations.


But in all seriousness, I’m with radagast on the pass blocking vs run blocking. Turner and Jenkins are huge run blocking upgrades over Taylor and the RG turnstile of yesteryear. That, combined with the two young running backs becoming reliable veteran guys who can be counted on really has opened up the balanced nature of this offense and helps to minimize what could be seen as a insurmountable obstacle to our offenses success.

There are several ways to skin a cat. We’ve come accustomed to the Packers being pass first, almost pass only, but that history means nothing. We’re in the here and now. Here and now, we run and pass equally well regardless of what the last 10 years of Packer teams have done.
tT
You are what you practice. Commitment to the run means practicing it. They are and it shows. Our guards last year probably were better run blockers than you think, but we didn't work it enough.

[pbmax]

But in all seriousness, I’m with radagast on the pass blocking vs run blocking. .

I've now read your position but what was Radagast's?

[mraynrand]

tT
You are what you practice. Commitment to the run means practicing it. They are and it shows. Our guards last year probably were better run blockers than you think, but we didn't work it enough.

Dude: Leeeeerooooy MmmmJenkins!!

[pbmax]

Dude: Leeeeerooooy MmmmJenkins!!

Yes. But the practice doesn't hurt either. I can put numbers on it, but the reports of camp seemed to indicate he spent more time on it than previous.

[mraynrand]

Yes. But the practice doesn't hurt either. I can put numbers on it, but the reports of camp seemed to indicate he spent more time on it than previous.

Yes it’s both. But Like when they switched to 3-4 and drafted Raji and Clay, drafting Leeroy showed they were serious about running the ball.

[mraynrand]

I come to packerrats because I enjoy the interactions between radagast and whoever he’s belittling, but even moreso to absorb mraynrands responses to said conversations.

I try to keep my end up.

[Radagast]

I've now read your position but what was Radagast's?

Now that I've already received unwarranted dis from Miss RashanGary, (:taunt: ), I'd be pleased to repeat my position.

I have and have had more confidence with the Packers new HC over their last HC. I said some months ago that LaFleur's new offensive system was not going to be delivering majacilly instant results. However I can't be more pleased with a 5 - 1 start to this season.

I'm pleased with the progress made in the running game and see it continuing to improve moving forward. The passing game used to be GB's forte, but with a weak WR core and injuries to starters Adams and Allison, the slow improvement of the remaining healthy WRs has naturally forced more on the TEs and RBs to catch balls. So far LaFleur has managed to adapt well to what he has to work with.

Next, the addition of WR Ryan Grant adds a veteran WR who can run the pass patterns that best fit his skills and add to the plays called. He will learn LaFleur's system in short order I feel and be a welcome addition to the Packers. My question too is, can he return kicks?

With both the running game and the passing game steadily improving, when a 100% healthy Adams and Allison return, GB should have a well oiled offensive machine ready for some high octane fuel (Adams and Allison). I look forward to seeing TE R.Tonyan emerge as a greater relied upon asset, I like him.

Groaning over low passing numbers as the Team's record is the best we have seen in years is like not seeing the forest for the trees. GB is winning games and improving as a football "TEAM" each week. The Defense is playing very well and the Special Teams play is a work in progress. I see GB winning the division and getting a 1 or 2 seed in the playoffs.

You can't please all of the people all of the time though, so we shall continue to read post from Texas Thickheads and Indiana Losers. That's par for the course though.

[texaspackerbacker]

I really don't pay much attention to where people in here are from. Am I the only Texas Thickhead? Or was Virginia Woolf referring to somebody else? I guess some of us are not afraid to dam up the stream of consciousness in threads.

[Radagast]

I never really thought of Texas as more that dry, unforested place where movie cowboys herded cattle and killed each other with their six shooters. Then someone had the arrogance to label one of their sports teams as "America's Team" and that crossed the line for me with all of that too large state. Just when you think it can go no further, you get "how bout them ...boy's", college sports scandals, and worst of all the Bush Family power grab. I still respect Sam Houston and Stephen Austin for their place in history.
I'm sure there are many nice places / people in Texas, but they can have their snakes, scorpions, bats, alligators, Tornados, Hurricanes, Droughts, and high leather boots. There are too many thickheads in Texas, however in Virginia wolves were eliminated long ago. There has been a slow rise in the coyote population though, a skulking night predator native to Texas I believe.

I live in beautiful Virginia. It is both pastoral and metropolitan, seashore to mountain lakes, as well as historical to cutting edge high tech. A state where gangs are seldom found and Education at UVA, VPI, W&M, and many other Universities is recognised world wide. A state were National and State Parks are nothing less than magical. The US Navy has the largest Naval Base in the World in Norfolk and the homes of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and James Monroe are in Virginia. I could go on and on, but I glad it's not Texas.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe you ought to post in FYI.

I guess the literary reference went right over your head. Maybe Rand will explain it to you.

[Radagast]

Incomplete references, like fragmented sentences offer little more than disjointed thoughts. It's like the woman who told her husband that she was angry and if he did not know why, then she was certainly not going to tell him. So, FYI, if you must babble, please do so in a concise and tangible manner. Also, assuming that another does or does not know a thing, underestimates the one and does discredit to the accuser.

I began this thread to stimulate good posting about the Packers and not to get involved in schoolyard rhetoric.

Offense has been the subject so far, but Defense deserves some attention as well. IMO, the Packers GM has done a superior job of drafting and hiring FAs. He avoided making wrong moves by not resigning some players and made some very good FA moves. Pettine is indeed cooking the meals, but Gutekunst has been providing him with great ingredients. So far only ILB depth has been a concern. The return of Oren Burks to side Blake Martinez at ILB is a positive thing.

This week the Raiders will try to use RB Josh Jacobs against the Packers. Their QB David Carr's receivers should be no match for GB's secondary and stopping Jacobs should be a normal days work for Packers.