Fackrell vs Gary

[Patler]

Through seven games:

Fackrell - 155 snaps, 9 tackles, 1/2 sack
Gary - 118 snaps, 10 tackles, 1 sack.

[SudsMcBucky]

Fackrell - 3rd round pick (88th overall)
Gary - 1st round pick (12th overall)

[Sparkey]

Fackrell 3 years and 7 games of experience
Gary 7 games of experience

[Patler]

Fackrell - 3rd round pick (88th overall)
Gary - 1st round pick (12th overall)

What's your point? Once you are on a team, no one cares how you got there or when you were drafted. All that matters is if you produce. Does it matter that Tom Brady was a 6th round pick (199th overall) and Aaron Rodgers was a 1st round pick (24th overall)?

Many have expressed a hope that Gary can become an upgrade from Fackrell. With a limited sample size, nothing is clear yet whether he will be or won't be, but I thought it would be interesting to see where they are at right now in this season.

[Patler]

Fackrell 3 years and 7 games of experience
Gary 7 games of experience

Yup, hopefully, Gary has more upside. Fackrell is also 6 years older than Gary.

[SudsMcBucky]

What's your point? Once you are on a team, no one cares how you got there or when you were drafted. All that matters is if you produce. Does it matter that Tom Brady was a 6th round pick (199th overall) and Aaron Rodgers was a 1st round pick (24th overall)?

Many have expressed a hope that Gary can become an upgrade from Fackrell. With a limited sample size, nothing is clear yet whether he will be or won't be, but I thought it would be interesting to see where they are at right now in this season.

You have to land a hit when you have a top 1st round pick. They're paid more and you've invested significantly more draft capital on that player where they BETTER produce at a higher rate. Look, I hope Gary still ends up panning out. However, I didn't like him prior to the draft and what he's done so far hasn't changed my mind. I hope I'm wrong.

[Patler]

You have to land a hit when you have a top 1st round pick. They're paid more and you've invested significantly more draft capital on that player where they BETTER produce at a higher rate. Look, I hope Gary still ends up panning out. However, I didn't like him prior to the draft and what he's done so far hasn't changed my mind. I hope I'm wrong.

In a perfect NFL world, maybe; but that is not the way it works in reality. There are plenty of #1 overall picks who are busts, let alone top half of the first round busts. I don't think a team has to be right on any specific pick to be successful as a team. They really don't even have to be "right' in any one draft class. Collectively over several years they have to do it right.

As for Gary, if he becomes a worthy starter/regular player for the next 8-10 years, it will be a successful draft pick, in my opinion, even if he never is an all-pro. The encouraging thing is that he is playing regularly, and has been "OK". He hasn't been a difference maker, but also hasn't been a liability.

[run pMc]

I suppose you could compare just their rookie years :)
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FackKy00.htm#

Fackrell Played 160 Def snaps, 284 ST snaps producing 9 Tkl(8 Solo), 1 TFL, 2 Sk, 1 PD, 1FF

Granted, Gary is more physically talented and drafted much higher so the expectations are as well, but I'm confident that he'll top Fackrell's rookie numbers. Until last year's surprise (fluke?) 10 sack season some posters thought KyloFack was a bust/JAG.

Ultimately I think comparing their first 3 seasons will be most illustrative. Gary seems like a quintessential raw talent/upside type (i.e., boom or bust) and I think it will take time for the result to be determined.

I agree that if he gives them 8-10 seasons of play he's a decent pick. Generally you have to have some good seasons (and good luck/health) to stick around that long.

[Packers4Glory]

imagine what Metcalf would look like about now in GB.

[texaspackerbacker]

The comparison I prefer to make is Gary to Nick Perry - both first round picks; we got that fairly long period of years out of Perry as somewhere between a mediocre and an ok player. Would we be satisfied with something similar out of Gary? I sure wouldn't.

The other comparision I'd consider is Gary to A.J. Hawk - both first rounders; We got an even longer period of fairly decent play out of Hawk, but considering where they were drafted, I wouldn't be satisfied with that for Gary.

Like somebody said, the stakes aren't as high for a third rounder like Fackrell, and you could say that he paid off pretty well last season. On the other hand, management concluded that he wasn't good enough as a long term top pass rusher, hence getting the Smiths and Gary.

IMO, all this panicky crap about Gary is way premature. If he get to the three year point like Fackrell and he has not shown a helluva lot of improvement, then we got something to complain about. I'm betting, though, that Gary lives up to what is expected from a first rounder.

[ThunderDan]

imagine what Metcalf would look like about now in GB.

Imagine Metcalf fumbling away the game last week like he did for Seattle and the uproar on PackerRats on how it was a wasted pick!

[Patler]

The comparison I prefer to make is Gary to Nick Perry - both first round picks; we got that fairly long period of years out of Perry as somewhere between a mediocre and an ok player. Would we be satisfied with something similar out of Gary? I sure wouldn't.

The other comparision I'd consider is Gary to A.J. Hawk - both first rounders; We got an even longer period of fairly decent play out of Hawk, but considering where they were drafted, I wouldn't be satisfied with that for Gary.

Like somebody said, the stakes aren't as high for a third rounder like Fackrell, and you could say that he paid off pretty well last season. On the other hand, management concluded that he wasn't good enough as a long term top pass rusher, hence getting the Smiths and Gary.

IMO, all this panicky crap about Gary is way premature. If he get to the three year point like Fackrell and he has not shown a helluva lot of improvement, then we got something to complain about. I'm betting, though, that Gary lives up to what is expected from a first rounder.

If he plays like Perry, when Perry actually was healthy, I'll be satisfied. My only complaints about Perry were that too often he was not available to play, and too often when he did play it was with a cast on an arm or hand, limiting his performance. When healthy, he was decent. If Gary doesn't play significantly more than Perry, it will be disappointing.

Hawk is a good example of where we differ. Hawk was a reliable starter for a lot of years. He isn't a disappointment to me just because he was a first round pick and wasn't an all-pro. Besides, for me to be disappointed with the Hawk pick, I would have to consider it relative to all the other top prospects available to GB when they took Hawk. Not the ones who came from no where in the later rounds, the other reasonable first round picks. That becomes way too complicated for me! :)

[texaspackerbacker]

The most telling thing about Perry is how good the Smiths are now. I don't recall any quality level remotely like that from Perry.

As for Hawk, people complain about Martinez - maybe validly, but I get a lot better feeling about Martinez than I ever did about Hawk.

Yeah, this is getting complicated hahahahaha

Suffice it to say, I never had many positive thoughts or feelings about Perry. Gary I do - at least speed and power and maybe agility. He just needs to be coached up and play to somewhere near his ability.

[mraynrand]

imagine what Metcalf would look like about now in GB.

Serious question: how many Seachickens games have you watched? In other words, is your assessment first or second-hand? If first hand, I would love to hear your run-down on the guy. Again, not being wise, just want to get a little depth.

[run pMc]

I liked the early stuff from Perry when he was healthy -- seemed like every other time he sacked the QB he'd force a fumble. Decent at setting the edge vs. the run too. The trouble was, he had hands made out of fine crystal and was in a club most of the time, or otherwise hurt.
I wonder if he'd have a better career had he have been a 4-3 DE for another team. Pretty telling that AFAIK he's not on a roster.

Agree with Patler that if Gary plays like a healthy Perry and can stay healthy, he'll be fine.

For all the grief Martinez gets, I see him as basically Hawk but drafted at the right round. Hard to complain about him considering he's a R4 pick and thinking about some of the players they've thrown out there at ILB (D.J Smith, Nate Palmer, etc.)
Someone's gonna offer Martinez a bigger contract than he's worth: solid player, can line up and run the D, but not a superstar/playmaker.

[mraynrand]

What's your point? Once you are on a team, no one cares how you got there or when you were drafted.

I care.

Gary was drafted after his Junior year. I see that he's not ready. I see that they are grooming him to play OLB and line positions. It's certainly a possibility he may never be ready, and he isn't exactly coming out of the gate like LT or anything, but maybe he'll become dominant at some point. As far as the team leadership goes, there are two general extreme possibilities: They know he's a project and it will take time to develop him, or they already know he's a bust and are basically playing him as little as possible because they have no other warm bodies. I can't tell the difference yet. Need more games.

[mraynrand]

For all the grief Martinez gets, I see him as basically Hawk but drafted at the right round.

exactly

[Bretsky]

Through seven games:

Fackrell - 155 snaps, 9 tackles, 1/2 sack
Gary - 118 snaps, 10 tackles, 1 sack.




This Thread really saddens me

[Bretsky]

You have to land a hit when you have a top 1st round pick. They're paid more and you've invested significantly more draft capital on that player where they BETTER produce at a higher rate. Look, I hope Gary still ends up panning out. However, I didn't like him prior to the draft and what he's done so far hasn't changed my mind. I hope I'm wrong.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Bretsky]

imagine what Metcalf would look like about now in GB.

Tank was Right

[George Cumby]

Jayzuz.

Give him some time.

[mraynrand]

Jayzuz.

Give him some time.

Time is a luxury you don't have, Admiral.

[mraynrand]

Tank was Right

The Metcalf takes are all emotion based

R Y TD
20 389 2
21 416 2

[George Cumby]

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!

[Bretsky]

The Metcalf takes are all emotion based

R Y TD
20 389 2
21 416 2



On ONE hand you are 100% right; but truth be told there are probably 25 guys we'd all gladly take over Baconitor right now who were drafted lower. But it's always fun to point out when Tank might be right.

On the OTHER hand, there would be a pretty big bus of fans in support of a Metcalf for Gary deal right now.

[Bretsky]

Jayzuz.

Give him some time.


He's a top 12 pick; instant gratification is reasonable.

[ThunderDan]

On ONE hand you are 100% right; but truth be told there are probably 25 guys we'd all gladly take over Baconitor right now who were drafted lower. But it's always fun to point out when Tank might be right.

On the OTHER hand, there would be a pretty big bus of fans in support of a Metcalf for Gary deal right now.
Until Metcalf fumbled away the Seattle Baltimore game last week. Then he would have been crucified here.

[Packers4Glory]

I would take Hollywood Brown over Gary as well. Injury being hindsight but he’s a stud. I’d have taken him 1st over metcalf. Both would be better options then Gary & better fits considering the cash we paid in the Smiths & still retaining our sack leader from last year.

Gary was a bad pick on a team that needs weapons. We bought defense. Needed to draft some offensive weapons.

AJ Brown is another guy i think would be making an impact on this team with no clear cut #2 or 3 WR behind Adams.

Allison is terrible.

[Packers4Glory]

Until Metcalf fumbled away the Seattle Baltimore game last week. Then he would have been crucified here.

Young players make mistakes. Still not as das Shepard with his feet in headlights plays. The fact he made the team shows how bad this group is.

[Bretsky]

I would take Hollywood Brown over Gary as well. Injury being hindsight but he’s a stud. I’d have taken him 1st over metcalf. Both would be better options then Gary & better fits considering the cash we paid in the Smiths & still retaining our sack leader from last year.

Gary was a bad pick on a team that needs weapons. We bought defense. Needed to draft some offensive weapons.

AJ Brown is another guy i think would be making an impact on this team with no clear cut #2 or 3 WR behind Adams.

Allison is terrible.



There were some nice OL there as well

[Zool]

I say again, I believe you'd rather be right about Gary than have him pan out and be a good player. You spend too much of your time explaining how you were right during the draft. There is LITERALLY nothing that can be done about the Gary pick. The repetition is becoming Tank-esque.

Stop talking about who would be better if you want to convince people that you're actually hoping he pans out.

[Fritz]

Or be like me. Bitch and bitch about how awful Gary is, and if you turn out to be right, you crow about it and feel good about how insightful you are. If you're wrong, you get to watch the Packers be a much better team, and your life as a Packer fan is much better.

It's a win-win, baby!

[mraynrand]

Young players make mistakes. Still not as das Shepard with his feet in headlights plays. The fact he made the team shows how bad this group is.

There are all sorts of tradeoffs at work. Packers fifth round pick from last year is playing on par with Metcalf. Maybe Metcalf is better going forward into their respective careers, but you don't know that yet. So you're making a short term argument based on a perceived long term estimate of relative talent. You could have done the same thing with the RB situation. For example, The Packers drafted Aaron Jones in the fifth two years ago and Seattle picked Penny with their #1 last year. So far, Jones is vastly outplaying Penny. Based on Jones' 2017 output, you could have made the same argument that the Packers needed to draft Penny in the 2018 draft. Maybe Penny will still have the long term better career, but perhaps not. But you can see how just projecting from perceived talent differences, based on draft position doesn't always work. Anyway, here's hoping Scantling turns out more like Jones, relative to his position.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tank was Right

Word. :)

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Until Metcalf fumbled away the Seattle Baltimore game last week. Then he would have been crucified here.

Allison literally fumbled away a SEASON...Sloth is a starter today despite abominable productions.

Crucifixion? Not in Green Bay!

[ThunderDan]

Allison literally fumbled away a SEASON...Sloth is a starter today despite abominable productions.

Crucifixion? Not in Green Bay!

How does one fumble away a season with 4 career fumbles and only lost 2. I don't understand how 2 fumbles cost us a whole season.

I don't think Allison is a good receiver but your hyperbole is getting old about the Sloth.

[The Shadow]

Metcalf = Meh.

[RashanGary]

Bretsky, don’t be a bitter troll :lol:

Anger leads to the dark side :wink:

[Bossman641]

R-E-L-A-X

Gary isn't even half a year into a hopefully 10 yr career. He's learning a new position and isn't needed at this time. If we were a possible 3-13 team, sure throw him out there and let him learn from his mistakes.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

How does one fumble away a season with 4 career fumbles and only lost 2. I don't understand how 2 fumbles cost us a whole season.

I don't think Allison is a good receiver but your hyperbole is getting old about the Sloth.

Not even a blue moon, you've already forgotten the game at Carolina that saw the GAB return from the shoulder injury.

Down 8. In the clutch. Season on the line. Janis woulda taken that slant to the house. Sloth got caught from behind and then fumbled away the season.

GAB mysteriously landed on IR for real the next week. The Browns, who were winless at that time and had top waiver claims, argued that putting the GAB on IR for a fake injury shoulda resulted in his release.

[ThunderDan]

Not even a blue moon, you've already forgotten the game at Carolina that saw the GAB return from the shoulder injury.

Down 8. In the clutch. Season on the line. Janis woulda taken that slant to the house. Sloth got caught from behind and then fumbled away the season.

GAB mysteriously landed on IR for real the next week. The Browns, who were winless at that time and had top waiver claims, argued that putting the GAB on IR for a fake injury shoulda resulted in his release.

So a 7-9 team was one fumble away from making the playoffs and somehow catching the 10-6 Falcons for the last wild card spot.:bang:

[wist43]

I'm hoping Gary can figure it out... he's on the field, hasn't pussed out yet.

He wasn't my guy (Brian Burns) but we're stuck with him; so, I'm hoping for the best.

[Packers4Glory]

I’m not saying Gary won’t turn into something. He may. But Aaron is rounding towards the twilight of his career. Finding weapons & OL depth should have been the priority. We have been defense heavy for years & after spending FA money on Defense one would have thought offensive upgrades would have been the focus of this draft.

[bobblehead]

Serious question: how many Seachickens games have you watched? In other words, is your assessment first or second-hand? If first hand, I would love to hear your run-down on the guy. Again, not being wise, just want to get a little depth.

I've watched a lot. I originally thought he landed in the perfect spot. Play breaks, run deep, Wilson throws a bomb. That hasn't been the case though. He has made most of his catches within the offense. He isn't overly shifty or a great route runner, but his physicality has him crushing guys who challenge him at the line and his speed/size combo makes guys stay off him so he gets open in routes.

Not sure Rodgers would be loving him. Impossible for me to say if he is running a route 1 yard deep or 1 yard shallow. Russell probably isn't a precision guy like that, but Rodgers is. Also hard for me to know if simply runs whats given or if he finds soft spots in zones. Unlikely for a rookie though. All that said he is producing for a rookie.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

So a 7-9 team was one fumble away from making the playoffs and somehow catching the 10-6 Falcons for the last wild card spot.:bang:

Yeah, they threw an injured GAB out there at Carolina just to sell tickets and increase TV viewership. I mean, thanks to socialistic revenue sharing, the Packers get their share of away games proceeds. The more tickets sold, the more frogskins. Likewise, more viewership, more frogskins from the Networks.

Seriously, the Packers were mathematically alive til the Sloth fumbled away the season...literally.

[KYPack]

So a 7-9 team was one fumble away from making the playoffs and somehow catching the 10-6 Falcons for the last wild card spot.:bang:

You'll never figure out what somebody is talking about when they don't know what they are talking about.

[mraynrand]

I’m not saying Gary won’t turn into something. He may. But Aaron is rounding towards the twilight of his career. Finding weapons & OL depth should have been the priority. We have been defense heavy for years & after spending FA money on Defense one would have thought offensive upgrades would have been the focus of this draft.

They did draft talent at rb and TE. Drafted 3 WR too last year. Kinda got a bad deal with injuries to Encyclopedia St Brown and Stromberg. Spent FA money on a broken TE. Not much more you could do there. Gary was for the future and maybe a hedge is the Sith didn’t work out. You roll the dice and hope it goes your way....

[Packers4Glory]

They did draft talent at rb and TE. Drafted 3 WR too last year. Kinda got a bad deal with injuries to Encyclopedia St Brown and Stromberg. Spent FA money on a broken TE. Not much more you could do there. Gary was for the future and maybe a hedge is the Sith didn’t work out. You roll the dice and hope it goes your way....

The TE pick was a good LOTO ticket for the future. Drafting Dexter was a depth move. He never was considered a possible weapon.

You can’t spend big and draft a premium 1 pick on insurance in case your big signing doesn’t Pan out. That is insanity. We already had that guy in the roster in KFak

[Joemailman]

I don't think the Gary pick was insurance. I think it was a pure BPA pick. I suspect they felt Gary was too good to pass up, given that his size gives him the versatility to play inside or outside.Time will tell if they were right.

[bobblehead]

They did draft talent at rb and TE. Drafted 3 WR too last year. Kinda got a bad deal with injuries to Encyclopedia St Brown and Stromberg. Spent FA money on a broken TE. Not much more you could do there. Gary was for the future and maybe a hedge is the Sith didn’t work out. You roll the dice and hope it goes your way....

Does that make Gary a Padowan?

[pbmax]

This Thread really saddens me

Its a fair comparison, but Fackrell had three years to figure it out. Give Gary some more time and then lets look again.

And just let me make this prediction come true for Fritz:

"Give him another offseason of coaching and film work. Plus pro conditioning and strength training.

And then another camp and then see where we are."

~pbmax, October 2019

[pbmax]

Down 8. In the clutch. Season on the line. Janis woulda taken that slant to the house. Sloth got caught from behind and then fumbled away the season.


Metcalf still has time to stink again. Don't worry about that.

[pbmax]

This thread is leaving me with questions:

1. Who is Dexter P4G referenced?

2. Stromberg is Sternberger, but who was the original referenced Stromberg?

[mraynrand]

2. Stromberg is Sternberger, but who was the original referenced Stromberg?

*raises hand*

I don’t think I posted in the nickname thread tho.

[esoxx]

This thread is leaving me with questions:

1. Who is Dexter P4G referenced?

2. Stromberg is Sternberger, but who was the original referenced Stromberg?

As to first question, Dexter Williams?

[pbmax]

As to first question, Dexter Williams?

Oh yeah. I forgot, which is terrible as he is actually on the roster now.

[pbmax]

*raises hand*

I don’t think I posted in the nickname thread tho.

OK, but does Stromberg reference anything? Only name its conjuring for me is Bill Lumbergh from Office Space.

"Ah yeah, we're gonna need you to come in this weekend"


https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/tlW-NwgaTPm0GkIvNpJOerkCD1o/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2014/11/19/114/n/1922283/7117bf081d4b9cfd_office-space-lumbergh-img-8/i/Bill-Lumbergh-Office-Space.jpg

[mraynrand]

Nah, it’s just a weird connection that probably only appeals to me.


https://images.app.goo.gl/jMoR2ZHTp5FuioZ78

[red]

the only thing saving me from completely jumping on the "gary is a flop" bandwagon, IS the smiths

if it wasn't for those two guys kicking so much ass, we would be expecting more out of gary

at this point we've gotten almost nothing out of our highest 1st round pick in a long time. i don't even think he's the #1 backup

thats not good from a guy the scouting department thought was one of the best players in the whole draft

i wonder if they got him mixed up with another player, cause when you watch every single one of his snaps in college, you see nothing special, just like what we are seeing this year

[George Cumby]

Meh. I see him pushing into the backfield on a regular basis. He was a junior, no? He's got time to get bigger and stronger and develop more technique. He was driving the LT back hard on one of Z. Sith's sacks last night.

[mraynrand]

Meh. I see him pushing into the backfield on a regular basis. He was a junior, no? He's got time to get bigger and stronger and develop more technique. He was driving the LT back hard on one of Z. Sith's sacks last night.

2021:

"When I was drafted, I was but the learner. Now, I am the Master!"

[George Cumby]

lol

Darth Rashan has a ring to it.

[Fritz]

Its a fair comparison, but Fackrell had three years to figure it out. Give Gary some more time and then lets look again.

And just let me make this prediction come true for Fritz:

"Give him another offseason of coaching and film work. Plus pro conditioning and strength training.

And then another camp and then see where we are."

~pbmax, October 2019


Bah, humbug. I say we rush to judgement, NOW.

That means I'm right.

If he gets better and becomes an All Pro, I will subtly but effectively pivot so by the midway point of the next season I'll be crowing about how I predicted Rashan Gary's greatness. I'll come back to this post, highlight the phrase "I predicted Rashan Gary's greatness," and paste it into a new post...and I'll keep my fingers crossed that you all have lost too many brain cells to remember what I actually predicted, or that you're too lazy to fact-chyeck me, or that you just don't care enough to correct me.

[pbmax]

We were always at war with Kyler Fackrell!

[Carolina_Packer]

Thankfully, they addressed his position in FA this past season, so they didn't draft him with the idea that he would have to be a big producer in year one.

I am more concerned about the lack of regular push up front on D, giving up decent chunks of yards on early downs, which creates unfavorable down and distance for the D, which stresses the back end of the defense, leading to easier 1st down opportunities. The back end can also have their share of communication issues on early downs as well. The D overall has been bend, but don't break. They need to blow up some run plays and push the pocket more. I'd be in favor of them finding someone who can rotate on the DL who is not from Northwestern.

[Fritz]

My God, Carolina, this could have been a post about a Dom Capers defense circa 2017.

[ZachMN]

For the life of me I do not understand why we went with Gary instead of any D lineman from Clemson or Alabama. No sarcasm here either.

[smuggler]

Gary was in on one of Z Smith's sacks last night. We already knew he was going to be a developmental kind of pick. Why are people upset he hasn't gotten it yet? Get back to me in 3 years.

[RashanGary]

Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams, Aaron Kampman, Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels, Nick Collins, Aaron Rodgers, Bakhtiari.....

We’ve had a few guys around here who get better in their 2nd, 3rd and 4th years. Hard to jump to any conclusions just yet. But this is the internet and that’s what we do.

[RashanGary]

I do wonder if at age 21 and playing a new position if he is maxed out though. Sure looks like it :lol: