Winners and Losers - Charger Edition

[Cheesehead Craig]

U.G.L.Y.

Winners
Adams - played well in his first game back and didn't reinjure himself.

Williams - played tough

Run blocking - Was solid, just didn't get much use due to overall offensive ineptitude.

Lazard - Continuing to show some ability

Losers
The entire coaching staff - most ill-preparred team and gameplan in a long ass time. Just pathetic. Pettine needs to figure out what's going on with his D. It's been bottom 5 in the league over that time.

Everyone else that's not on the winners list - the offensive line was brutal. Rodgers had no time and wasn't all that accurate.
The defensive line and LBs had no pass rush and got gashed in the run game. Secondary was awful as guys rank around open everywhere.

Plenty of ammo to use. Have at it.

[RashanGary]

Williams did play tough! And the team stuck together too. Tramon and Tony Brown had an exchange, but other than that, they stuck together. As crazy as it sounds, I’m more excited after that awful loss.

[red]

Williams did play tough! And the team stuck together too. Tramon and Tony Brown had an exchange, but other than that, they stuck together. As crazy as it sounds, I’m more excited after that awful loss.

how high are you?

[RashanGary]

And OL is the biggest loser for the penalties and pass pro. OL and then Lafleur for not giving the OL help in those long down and distances.

[pbmax]

Cheeze sticking it to the man.

[George Cumby]

Cheeze sticking it to the man.

Naw, keeping the proletariat down.

[Zool]

Tony Brown managed to get 2 penalties on a single kickoff before the actual kick. Super impressive.

[Smidgeon]

The o line are losers in this game. Majorly. The D wasn't too bad. They were just gassed. The o line set the entire team back and ruined the time of possession.

[pbmax]

Tony Brown managed to get 2 penalties on a single kickoff before the actual kick. Super impressive.

What did he do? Never heard a good explanation.

[Zool]

What did he do? Never heard a good explanation.

I believe it was illegal motion and offsides.

[ThunderDan]

I believe it was illegal motion and offsides.

No, it was illegal formation and offsides. Too many players inside the numbers or some such nonsense.

[run pMc]

Just an ugly game all around.

OL was Bad. I can't imagine it was crowd noise either, so it had to be just poor focus. False starts kept setting them back... it was frustrating.
Also, if you see Ingram and Bosa lined up together on the same side, how can you not account for that in your blocking, or maybe scheme up a bootleg the other way?

The LAC are bad in the RZ, but GB held them ok...I thought for as bad as they played in the 1st half the score could've been worse...and then they stunk up the 2nd half too.

ST was a big loser. At least Crosby made his kicks. PR/KR didn't look much better this week, and IIRC GB is ranked at/near the bottom with them.
Defending crossing routes was a big loser. Rivers has a quick release and will dink and dunk from the shotgun...they had to know that going in.
"

There were times when I thought I was watching the old M3 offense...run on 1st down, penalty, run on 2nd down, incompletion on deep throw down the sideline on 3rd and 2.

Very sloppy game by GB, from the LAC games I've seen usually they are the sloppy/unlucky team. This time it was GB. They deserved to lose...they played like a 2-14 team.
A lot of "film to watch and clean up" UGH.

[KYPack]

Winners - WR Ryan Grant CB Ka’dar Hollman CB Josh Jackson LB Tim Williams OL Cole Madison
OL Adam Pankey TE Robert Tonyan. These lads had the good sense to sit this one out.

Adams toe might be a winner, but he seemed to be a half beat slow.

Losers A team wide collapse. We split two tough roadies. Time to burn this tape and start workin towards Carolina in true "we're on to Cincinnati" fashion.

[pbmax]

Winners - WR Ryan Grant CB Ka’dar Hollman CB Josh Jackson LB Tim Williams OL Cole Madison
OL Adam Pankey TE Robert Tonyan. These lads had the good sense to sit this one out.

Adams toe might be a winner, but he seemed to be a half beat slow.

Losers A team wide collapse. We split two tough roadies. Time to burn this tape and start workin towards Carolina in true "we're on to Cincinnati" fashion.

Can you look at this clip?

Is this an inside zone even though the Center and Guard on the play side are reaching to cut off Clark and Lowry? Or is it a designed counter?

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1191387062353592321

[texaspackerbacker]

It looks to me like the same kind of inside zone we have been running with Jones and sometimes Williams.

[KYPack]

Can you look at this clip?

Is this an inside zone even though the Center and Guard on the play side are reaching to cut off Clark and Lowry? Or is it a designed counter?

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1191387062353592321

Looks like a straight zone in front of the old lead draw. Schofield's agent needs to run this clip when he negotiates his contract. Martinez with very poor shed on the play to boot.

[pbmax]

Looks like a straight zone in front of the old lead draw. Schofield's agent needs to run this clip when he negotiates his contract. Martinez with very poor shed on the play to boot.

Yeah. Martinez being slightly hesitant to get past blocker is not working well with Clark overplaying, probably trying to make something happen. One of them needs to stop and stay home.

Even then, not sure Blake defeats too many blocks in the hole. But with those reach blocks and everyone running to the play side, the cutback was WIDE open.

[run pMc]

Is it that open because Savage is coming off the edge? Just seems like it's hat on hat there and Schofield has clear line to Blake after giving a chip to Clark. Is Sullivan playing too deep?

[pbmax]

Is it that open because Savage is coming off the edge? Just seems like it's hat on hat there and Schofield has clear line to Blake after giving a chip to Clark. Is Sullivan playing too deep?

Hard to say about Sullivan.

Its a single high safety coverage with 3 CBs and 7 on the LOS. Run was pretty good call against it. Slot CB was close and helped with tackle but that was the closest help.

In that defense with Savage pressuring, you can't lose a gap. Only one guy deep.

[QBME]

From a layman's point of view:

Winners - Chargers D Line. For all the hype about their interior D Line being down to 2nd and 3rd stringers, they controlled the line.

Losers - Pack O line. See above. Also whomever it was who should have realized that the Bosa kid was handing Bulaga his lunch from the get-go and still didn't scheme to help him out.

Like another poster stated - burn the tape and on to next week. Christian McCaffery scares the daylights out of me.

[Freak Out]

Christian McCaffery scares the daylights out of me.

No doubt.

[Freak Out]

Man...Bulaga looked old and slow trying to pass block...of course Bosa and Ingram will do that to you.

[pbmax]

I got news for everyone, Bach looked as bad as Bulaga.

[KYPack]

I got news for everyone, Bach looked as bad as Bulaga.

Yep. Bosa and Ingram are top edge guys. Both our OT's were totally paranoid about the edge rush. Ingram and Bos were giving jab steps or head fakes to the outside and then ripping strong inside moves. On that one sack by Ingram, it looks like Whale was gonna corkscrew himself into the ground.

[Fritz]

KY, in those situations, wouldn't you have your center or guard moving over to help? Was GB so worried about the inside pass rush that they refused to move Linsley or one of the guards over to help?

[KYPack]

Sure Fritz. Some inside help from both guards would be of some aid. The center would take the inside help and Jenkins would give inside support to Bach, let's say. Jenkins is a rook and Turner is a limited G. Both of these guys are struggling to execute their own assignments. Was their some failure in doing just that? Freakin' A.

Both OT's failed like crazy in the basic task of all OT's in pass pro. Close the gate. This is drilled into everybody in the line. Both T'S and both guards are schooled to protect the inside rush from defensive lineman. That is your first responsibility. Help from the interior boys would have helped, but both guys were so freaked about Bosa and Ingrams strong edge rushes, they ignored "the gate".

This is an OK Oline that we have, but both OT's must get back to basics. Close the gate and get your asses in position to check that edge rush. Now that all these other teams will see their weaknesses, they must bust their butts to be in position to check those kinds of pass rushes.

[woodbuck27]

U.G.L.Y.

Winners
Adams - played well in his first game back and didn't reinjure himself.

Williams - played tough

Run blocking - Was solid, just didn't get much use due to overall offensive ineptitude.

Lazard - Continuing to show some ability

Losers
The entire coaching staff - most ill-preparred team and gameplan in a long ass time. Just pathetic. Pettine needs to figure out what's going on with his D. It's been bottom 5 in the league over that time.

Everyone else that's not on the winners list - the offensive line was brutal. Rodgers had no time and wasn't all that accurate.
The defensive line and LBs had no pass rush and got gashed in the run game. Secondary was awful as guys rank around open everywhere.

Plenty of ammo to use. Have at it.

Lazard is impressing me.

The Packer 'D' is easy to beat.

[mraynrand]

The Packer 'D' is easy to beat.

For yards, yes. But they are still #11 in points allowed. They can win with this defense, but they need the O to put pressure on the opposition for the D to work at it’s best.

[Fritz]

For yards, yes. But they are still #11 in points allowed. They can win with this defense, but they need the O to put pressure on the opposition for the D to work at it’s best.


I would also argue that the increasingly inept special teams - both coverage and return units - are putting extra pressure on the defense and the offense. I saw an article quoting the ST coach - what the hell is his name, Menenges or something? - as saying he was calling for very conservative schemes, protecting against fakes at the expense of setting up returns, for example. I'm willing to go along with that, but I also find that the coverage teams are allowing bigger returns the past few games. So what's up with that part? It's not helping the defense if the opponent's starting on the 50 yard line.

[pbmax]

I would also argue that the increasingly inept special teams - both coverage and return units - are putting extra pressure on the defense and the offense. I saw an article quoting the ST coach - what the hell is his name, Menenges or something? - as saying he was calling for very conservative schemes, protecting against fakes at the expense of setting up returns, for example. I'm willing to go along with that, but I also find that the coverage teams are allowing bigger returns the past few games. So what's up with that part? It's not helping the defense if the opponent's starting on the 50 yard line.

Yep. Defense has trended down, but not as much as terrible special teams. Woof.

[Fritz]

Who was the guy The Flower wanted, but Murphy disallowed because it would shake up the pay scale? Was it Toub?

Hell, at this point Pettine and maybe Hackett would give up a chunk of their paychecks to have a really good ST coach. It would make both those guys' jobs easier.

[texaspackerbacker]

Special teams may have been bad, but not in a game changing way. It shouldn't take much coaching brain power to get your outside guy on kick-offs to turn the runner in and don't let him get to the sideline. Even so, there were no TD returns. I get the impression kick receiving is mostly a personnel thing. It might get better with Tremon Smith back there. I also get the impression that with rule changes (that stupid safety stuff), it's harder to set up a good return. Punt coverage hasn't been that bad, has it? And punt returns probably are best just handled with a fair catch and less risk of a turnover.

Defense is currently the biggest problem, and specifically, it all starts with at least two weak D Linemen, with subsequent compensation needed to help them out.

[Fritz]

I am just pointing out that the three parts of your team are interrelated, and special teams doesn't get talked about as much as offense and defense, yet they are contributing to the struggles.

[pbmax]

Special teams may have been bad, but not in a game changing way. It shouldn't take much coaching brain power to get your outside guy on kick-offs to turn the runner in and don't let him get to the sideline. Even so, there were no TD returns. I get the impression kick receiving is mostly a personnel thing. It might get better with Tremon Smith back there. I also get the impression that with rule changes (that stupid safety stuff), it's harder to set up a good return. Punt coverage hasn't been that bad, has it? And punt returns probably are best just handled with a fair catch and less risk of a turnover.

Defense is currently the biggest problem, and specifically, it all starts with at least two weak D Linemen, with subsequent compensation needed to help them out.

Special Teams can help keep your starting field position healthy. Which can make up for some of your defense shortcomings. It hurt to get poor performances from both. Puts more strain on the offense.

[mraynrand]

Defense is currently the biggest problem, and specifically, it all starts with at least two weak D Linemen, with subsequent compensation needed to help them out.

I would lay the primary blame for both losses this year at the feet of the offense. The defense is middle of the road with a weak middle but is mostly good enough against top offenses for them to win games. It cannot shut down a good offense. Packers will need to score 28+ to beat handful of good teams with typical defensive effort.

I don’t see a way for defense to improve unless some guys are hurt and will get better.

[ThunderDan]

I would lay the primary blame for both losses this year at the feet of the offense. The defense is middle of the road with a weak middle but is mostly good enough against top offenses for them to win games. It cannot shut down a good offense. Packers will need to score 28+ to beat handful of good teams with typical defensive effort.

I don’t see a way for defense to improve unless some guys are hurt and will get better.
We just need to play Chicago and Turdbiscuit every week and our D will be fine.

[RashanGary]

I don’t see a way for defense to improve unless some guys are hurt and will get better.


I actually can see them improving. Alexander and King are both in stages of their career where they’re learning nuances of defense. Savage is a rookie so he’ll keep getting better. Campbell might be our dime linebacker so that means we see less of Redmond and Sullivan and that means Amos can stay at safety.....

The guys up front are still ironing out some of the details.....

The Packers have one of the youngest defenses in the league. I actually can picture them getting better. Especially if they stay healthy and have time to gel.

[bobblehead]

how high are you?

Rhetorical?

[RashanGary]

Rivers, Carr, Stafford, Wentz, Prescott.....

It’s not like the Packers are playing the Jets and Dolphins every week. These other guys get paid too. Just small improvements along with some steadier, ball control offense will be enough. Plus improvements in the return game.

I’m in total disagreement with the doom and gloom after the Chargers game.

[bobblehead]

Can you look at this clip?

Is this an inside zone even though the Center and Guard on the play side are reaching to cut off Clark and Lowry? Or is it a designed counter?

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1191387062353592321

I think it was an outside zone. The tackle comes out strong and makes a big push. Center tries to cut off Clark, but Clark wont' allow it. Henry make an awesome fast read that Clark "read" and beat the block. Guard got to Martinez so fast that Henry saw the hole and made a fast cut back. Martinez has to beat that block and blow the play up. That is what makes outside zone so dangerous. when the D commits to stopping it and the back cuts back hard it takes an individual effort to stop a HUGE gain. In this case If sullivan gets juked and Henry is allowed to cut back further he gets 30 easy. Sullivan held strong and forced Henry to leap and get tackled.

[bobblehead]

Duh...not sure why I thought that was Tennessee....we haven't even played them. Looked like Henry though.

[bobblehead]

Rivers, Carr, Stafford, Wentz, Prescott.....

It’s not like the Packers are playing the Jets and Dolphins every week. These other guys get paid too. Just small improvements along with some steadier, ball control offense will be enough. Plus improvements in the return game.

I’m in total disagreement with the doom and gloom after the Chargers game.

I'm with you. They played a shit game. It happens. Its not like we have seen that effort and execution every week. They read too many of their own press clippings and got their ass handed to them. How they react will tell the story.

[pbmax]

Lotta speculation that Campbell gets the Nitro S/ILB snaps as Raven Greene was getting.

He played a lot of coverage last year, so it will be interesting.

[Radagast]

I'm with you. They played a shit game. It happens. Its not like we have seen that effort and execution every week. They read too many of their own press clippings and got their ass handed to them. How they react will tell the story.

I agree. Sometimes getting beat is just what it takes to learn more about yourself.

To me the entire team looked tired and lacked energy. Less pads and more focused walkthroughs could be an answer.

Stopping McCaffrey will be the primary mission vs Carolina, Campbell may indeed play a greater role in this week game plan.

[texaspackerbacker]

I remember Campbell as good in coverage too. I think/hope when they go to something like that Nitro thing, they use Amos in the Greene role with Savage and Campbell back as traditional Safetys.

It seems less likely, however, that the Packers use that sort of lineup against a run heavy team like Carolina.