More Banjo: Week 9 @ Los Angeles Chargers

[pbmax]

Wipe out. Not even abandoning TV for the car radio helped.

The offense looked like a bad version of itself from earlier this year. When they sprung people open deep they didn't hit it. And the run game, while it worked, kept getting pushed aside by penalties and bad plays.

Defense was piss poor in all aspects.

About the only positive was Tremon Smith look at least functional as a return man.

I have no details on the contretemps between Tramontana and Tony Brown.

[Joemailman]

http://eegraphics.com/roadside/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ragbrai1.jpg

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (aging myself there), I'll just point out that this was a 6-0 game until the end of the half. Defense bought the offense enough time that they should have been able to get their act together. They never did. Chargers had constant pressure on Rodgers despite blitzing just once.

[esoxx]

Wipe out. Not even abandoning TV for the car radio helped.



Good effort pb.

If only Pittstang would have went to the garage at halftime, outcome may have been different.

[pbmax]

Good effort pb.

If only Pittstang would have went to the garage at halftime, outcome may have been different.

Have to redouble efforts next week.

Meanwhile, this is as good an explanation as any.

Packers History @HistoricPackers
The Packers have now lost their last six games that have occurred the weekend of the end of Daylight Saving Time.

[Joemailman]

Have to redouble efforts next week.

Meanwhile, this is as good an explanation as any.

Packers History @HistoricPackers
The Packers have now lost their last six games that have occurred the weekend of the end of Daylight Saving Time.

Well, that destroys the theory that the problem was that the Packers got in too late. The extra hour of sleep should have helped them.

[pbmax]

Well, that destroys the theory that the problem was that the Packers got in too late. The extra hour of sleep should have helped them.

Didn't I read that they flew in Friday?

[gbgary]

MLF said "it was a spread, throw it all over the yard, type of game. that's not who we want to be at all." that's a shot across rodgers' bow. glad to see it. didn't know he had it in him.

[pittstang5]

Good effort pb.

If only Pittstang would have went to the garage at halftime, outcome may have been different.

LOL...don't live there anymore. ...and creepy that you remember that.

[esoxx]

Have to redouble efforts next week.

Meanwhile, this is as good an explanation as any.

Packers History @HistoricPackers
The Packers have now lost their last six games that have occurred the weekend of the end of Daylight Saving Time.

Didn't the Packers also lose last season on this same weekend to the Rams in the Ty Montgomery game? STAY AWAY FROM LA on this weekend!

[pbmax]

LOL...don't live there anymore. ...and creepy that you remember that.

Dude, we ALL remember that!!

Its one of my favorite PackerRats moments! I just told that story to my family as I went out to the car. :lol:

Edited to add: But you could be right, you need a new spot!

[pittstang5]

Dude, we ALL remember that!!

Its one of my favorite PackerRats moments! I just told that story to my family as I went out to the car. :lol:

Edited to add: But you could be right, you need a new spot!

Too funny. I do have a new spot and it's been working, up to today and the Eagles game.

[pbmax]

Too funny. I do have a new spot and it's been working, up to today and the Eagles game.

Maybe I need to find a better spot then.

Though I did make one mistake, my viewing partner today wanted the audio on. Probably shouldn't have risked it. Damn.

[MadtownPacker]

I think you need to show more commitment by turning the car on with the door closed until they take the lead.

[Joemailman]

MLF said "it was a spread, throw it all over the yard, type of game. that's not who we want to be at all." that's a shot across rodgers' bow. glad to see it. didn't know he had it in him.

Sounded more like a self-critique. He preceded your quote by saying "I gotta do a better job of putting our guys in position. We didn't even get into the game plan."

[RashanGary]

Sounded more like a self-critique. He preceded your quote by saying "I gotta do a better job of putting our guys in position. We didn't even get into the game plan."

Yep. Not a shot at AR at all. The penalties knocked them into bad situations and the defense not getting off the field compounded it. Then the road/environment fatigue finished us off.

I’m not reading much into that game. Period. Hope Vegas overreacts. I wanna bet Packers

[hoosier]

That was 2015 Packers-Broncos bad. Rodgers can take his share of the blame but the line couldn't block for shit and the defense couldn't stop anything. Just laid an all around egg. Tom Landry used to say that all good teams get blown out once per year. I guess we hope that is what this was. And at least Minnesota lost.

[Joemailman]

Yep. Not a shot at AR at all. The penalties knocked them into bad situations and the defense not getting off the field compounded it. Then the road/environment fatigue finished us off.

I’m not reading much into that.

He later said he needs to stay more committed to the run. I think he was talking about the need to stay out of bad down and distance situations.

[RashanGary]

He later said he needs to stay more committed to the run. I think he was talking about the need to stay out of bad down and distance situations.

Yeah. It was a really bad game flow. In hindsight, I’m really not reading much in. That’s the NFL. That’s Phillip Rivers. That’s a weird week with west coast travel and weather. That’s just a bad run of luck as Tex would say. My money is on Packers bouncing back. Can’t wait to bet on Pack. Hope Vegas overreacts

[pbmax]

The Flower's Post Gamer:

All credit to Chargers, better coached and played better. Lesson is you have to come prepared or this is what happens.

Why were you late?

Confused look, shakes head as in "what are you talking about"

Late to the stadium?

Shakes head. "No"

What options did you have with Bosa?

Slid protection to him and tried to chip but he was a big factor

I have to do a better job. We never got to the game plan, it was a spread, throw it all over the yard type game.

Getting pressure with four?

Its a huge advantage because its no secret what they are playing behind it: 3 deep 4 under and its tough to get big plays because they keep everything in front of them

Channels Rand: You have to stay with your run game, I need to be more committed to it to help our guys be in a better position

Surprised to see an Aaron Rodgers led offense struggle like this?

Yeah its frustrating. Second poor performance including first game (for offense). Gotta hit the reset button, win lose or draw and be more prepared.

[pbmax]

I think you need to show more commitment by turning the car on with the door closed until they take the lead.

OK, but its just going to raise my electrical bill.

[pbmax]

He later said he needs to stay more committed to the run. I think he was talking about the need to stay out of bad down and distance situations.

3 penalties (delay of game, 2 false start) 2 sacks he mentioned. Put them in bad down and distance situations. Takes you away from run.

Get to second half and maybe down 9 you can reset (he specifically mentioned down by less than 2 scores two times) and you can probably run your offense. But then the SD TD and game script takes a turn for the worse.

You can't have those penalties on the road and they needed a better answer to that pass D.

[Joemailman]

Yeah. It was a really bad game flow. In hindsight, I’m really not reading much in. That’s the NFL. That’s Phillip Rivers. That’s a weird week with west coast travel and weather. That’s just a bad run of luck as Tex would say. My money is on Packers bouncing back. Can’t wait to bet on Pack. Hope Vegas overreacts

I think they'll bounce back too. LaFleur I thought struck the right tone after the game. Acknowledged the poor performance, including his. Didn't make excuses, but also didn't make a huge deal out of 1 loss. Kind of like last spring when everyone was making a big deal about the audible situation. Didn't give in, but didn't let it become a huge issue either. I've been impressed with his ability to handle potentially negative situations. He understands that a lot of coaching happens off the field.

[gbgary]

Yep. Not a shot at AR at all.

who do you think wants the spread, wide open offense? MLF's (Shanahan) offense isn't like that. after 3 or 4 weeks of ball control passing and running, and moving the chains, what we got today was 2016 rodgers overriding McCarthy.

[George Cumby]

LOL...don't live there anymore. ...and creepy that you remember that.

We're a bunch of crotchety old fuckers who remember each other's quirks so we can feel better about our quirks.

[RashanGary]

who do you think wants the spread, wide open offense? MLF's (Shanahan) offense isn't like that. after 3 or 4 weeks of ball control passing and running, and moving the chains, what we got today was 2016 rodgers overriding McCarthy.

They just got behind in down and distance, then behind in score. Both situations lead to having to throw. So just need to be more solid early in downs abs early in game is what Lafleur was saying.

Neither AR or Lafleur looked pissed at each other. It was just a bad start that snowballed. It wasn’t AR or MLFs fault.

Now, going in, MLF should have better protection plans IF tve game starts bad. They just didn’t plan for it going that bad, that fast

[Joemailman]

who do you think wants the spread, wide open offense? MLF's (Shanahan) offense isn't like that. after 3 or 4 weeks of ball control passing and running, and moving the chains, what we got today was 2016 rodgers overriding McCarthy.

What we got today was a bad performance by players and coaching staff. But some people can't handle the idea that Rodgers and LaFleur are working quite well together. They need to believe there is a rift between the 2. Whatever.

[pbmax]

who do you think wants the spread, wide open offense? MLF's (Shanahan) offense isn't like that. after 3 or 4 weeks of ball control passing and running, and moving the chains, what we got today was 2016 rodgers overriding McCarthy.

When it was a three score game, that plan went out the window. Even Shanny wouldn't run the base offense down three scores.

LaFleur was saying there was a shot at running it at half, with the score only 9-0. But then the next Charger TD removed that option.

Before that, errors, sacks and penalties took the running game with them in bad down and distance.

[pbmax]

We're a bunch of crotchety old fuckers who remember each other's quirks so we can feel better about our quirks.

Maybe we should all rearrange the furniture in the TV room.

[RashanGary]

And gbgary, you know I’m not above finding fault in AR, I just did not see it. I saw penalties and bad blocking lead to long down and distances. I saw long down and distances lead to the Chargers teeing off on AR and their star players winning. I saw Rivers move the ball methodically so we didn’t have a chance to right the wrong. And then we just had to air it out to try to come back. Just a worst case game flow. Nothing to overreact about.

[pbmax]

And gbgary, you know I’m not above finding fault in AR, I just did not see it. I saw penalties and bad blocking lead to long down and distances. I saw long down and distances lead to the Chargers teeing off on AR and their star players winning. I saw Rivers move the ball methodically so we didn’t have a chance to right the wrong. And then we just had to air it out to try to come back. Just a worst case game flow. Nothing to overreact about.

I would like him to start connecting more often deep. Its the one thing still awol in his game.

[RashanGary]

AR wasn’t mad at MLF cuz he knew it was just a bad run. MLF didn’t freak out on AR cuz he knew the same. Nobodies upset. They’re gonna regroup and play more solid football next week.

[gbgary]

I was "handling" it just fine, especially the last month or so, until I heard MLF say that. the "spead" BS wouldn't even be in the playbook if it weren't for Rodgers.

[RashanGary]

I was "handling" it just fine, especially the last month or so, until I heard MLF say that. the "spead" BS wouldn't even be in the playbook if it weren't for Rodgers.

MLF wants to air it out on 2nd and 4 or first and 5 after an offside. He doesn’t want to be forced to air it out because of score or down and distance. In context, what he’s saying makes more sense

[RashanGary]

A football guy like Lafleur, he just assumes everyone knows what he means by “we don’t want to be about dropping back and airing it out.” What he’s saying in full context is, we don’t want to be in situations where we have to do that because it gives the defense an advantage.” If you read between the lines, that’s what he was really saying.

[RashanGary]

We don’t want to be about just airing it out means two things

1. We don’t want to be so predictable in what we do that teams pin their ears back and kill our QB

And

2. We don’t want to be so bad early in downs or early in games that we’re forced into predictable play style that allows teams to tee off



That’s all he’s saying.

[MadtownPacker]

If I ever own a business I want employees like RashanGary. Company line toeing mofo! :lol:

[red]

coach mom starting to sound like fat mike

"we need to run more"

[texaspackerbacker]

AR wasn’t mad at MLF cuz he knew it was just a bad run. MLF didn’t freak out on AR cuz he knew the same. Nobodies upset. They’re gonna regroup and play more solid football next week.

Good Post within limitations. We've got major personnel deficiency in both lines, and that ain't gonna be easy to overcome.

Let Rodgers be Rodgers - unleash him ....... that will do wonders for the offense.

Let the Smiths be the Smiths - unleash the pass rush - a lot more blitzing. That will do wonders for the defense even if it opens up some lanes for teams to run on us.

[mraynrand]

Chargers had constant pressure on Rodgers despite blitzing just once.

Natch.

[gbgary]

MLF wants to air it out on 2nd and 4 or first and 5 after an offside. He doesn’t want to be forced to air it out because of score or down and distance. In context, what he’s saying makes more sense

yes but not from spread and shotgun formations all the time. the proliferation of that is from rodgers, the "work in progress" O, the mish mash of mccarthy and MLF's O. i'm not blaming the loss on rodgers. there's plenty of that to go around. i'm just saying that part of the O needs to go. i'm not saying MLF is mad at rodgers either. i'm just saying i think that may have been an "i told you so" from MLF to rodgers. rodgers goes public and sends messages through the pressers. i hope this was one from MLF to him. three possessions in the first half is terrible. back to ball control and moving the chains.

[mraynrand]

3 penalties (delay of game, 2 false start) 2 sacks he mentioned. Put them in bad down and distance situations. Takes you away from run.

Get to second half and maybe down 9 you can reset (he specifically mentioned down by less than 2 scores two times) and you can probably run your offense. But then the SD TD and game script takes a turn for the worse.

You can't have those penalties on the road and they needed a better answer to that pass D.

Sometimes, when the D dares you to run it, you should run it. Right down their throats until they are forced out of their defense.

[red]

Sometimes, when the D dares you to run it, you should run it. Right down their throats until they are forced out of their defense.

even if you are behind by 3 scores, you have to do what works

the spread crap hasn't worked in years. we know that

do what works, take what they give you

this was stubborn mike mccarthy crap yesterday (or the aaron rodgers offense)

[pbmax]

yes but not from spread and shotgun formations all the time. the proliferation of that is from rodgers, the "work in progress" O, the mish mash of mccarthy and MLF's O. i'm not blaming the loss on rodgers. there's plenty of that to go around. i'm just saying that part of the O needs to go. i'm not saying MLF is mad at rodgers either. i'm just saying i think that may have been an "i told you so" from MLF to rodgers. rodgers goes public and sends messages through the pressers. i hope this was one from MLF to him. three possessions in the first half is terrible. back to ball control and moving the chains.

The Flower isn't going to be under center using a play fake on 3rd and 9. We are talking about marginal instances here, not the whole design.

That said, this game was probably the game to start with 2 TE and run, run, run. But that is hindsight talking.

I can't believe anyone thought Bulaga and Bach would look so bad against head and shoulder fakes. They weren't even being abused by speed. They were probably too focused on speed to b honest.

[pbmax]

Sometimes, when the D dares you to run it, you should run it. Right down their throats until they are forced out of their defense.

Agree. But you need snaps to do that and they can't be 2nd and 15 or 3rd and 9.

[pbmax]

even if you are behind by 3 scores, you have to do what works

the spread crap hasn't worked in years. we know that

do what works, take what they give you

this was stubborn mike mccarthy crap yesterday (or the aaron rodgers offense)

You do realize that the Chargers gave the Packers 4.1 ypc? It wasn't a dominating performance, it was just better than the pass game.

The Packers are Top 10 in the League in offense with that spread crap. That spread crap ran up the score on the Cowboys and the Chiefs. It nearly won back the game against the Eagles.

Even at its worst last year, the Packers offense was mediocre, not terrible. They were never the Browns with Rodgers at QB.

[Radagast]

As the dust settles on the Packer's loss to the Chargers, no Packer fan ever likes a GB loss. They remain in the lead in the NFC North as well as being NFC strong contenders for a playoff bye. Yes, Go Pack Go.

The best coaches/teams learn more from a loss than from a win. Let's look at some of the things that went wrong.

Turner and Bulaga were vulnerable to a pass rush that sacked Rodgers. Both looked like they started the game tired. Additionally, run blocking by the Packer O-line looked tired. The low energy level of the the O-line play was glaring. That said what will be needed to take place before they play Carolina at Lambeau? IMO, the most critical need is for rest. Less practice in pads with more focus placed on walkthroughs at 1/2 speed that focus on opposition tendencies. Just showing up with a playbook for an NFL game is not good enough and the Chargers loss makes that point apparent.

Next, the Packer Defense allowed too many big plays. The Chargers did their homework on the Packers and it showed. The Packers D went from outstanding goal line stands to giving up yards both on the ground and in the air. Were the Packers overthinking on Defense or were they also very tired as well?

GB's professional coaches will closely examine this Chargers loss and should turn it to the Packers advantage moving forward. I had rather learn about these weaknesses now, rather than discover them by surprise in the playoffs.

IMO, GB looked slow and tired. Unless they get rested and do a better job researching Carolina, this same scene could repeat itself again and at home in front of the Packer faithfull. Let's hope this will be a wake up call to not look past ANY game/team.

[pbmax]

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1191387062353592321

Preston - Amos - Lowry - Clark - Martinez - DoctorZ

Savage is off screen but appears to be on LOS outside of DoctorZ. Would appear to be a seven man front.

D slants to its right. Lowry defeats a block but not fast enough to close. Clark is double but gets out of it. He and a closing Martinez actually close off Gordon's target hole (offenses left A gap) BUT...

Both are over played to their right and Martinez cannot get through his blocker to squeeze the hole. Which may not have mattered because DoctorZ has played a C gap technique even with Savage up with him. So NO ONE is in the B gap to stop Gordon from cutting back to his right and getting 10+.

With just two videos/screen shots, they are over playing play side and getting burnt backside due to poor discipline. This looks a lot like Raji in 2011. He was beating blocks left and right and getting penetration, but leaving gaps behind when they penetrate.

They have two guys in some gaps and no one in others. Pretty poor play. Not playing as a unit.

[pbmax]

If Clark, Lowry, DoctorZ and Preston all defeat blocks and the hole is that wide, its easy to blame Martinez. He doesn't play it well at all. He recognizes cutback too late and gets sucked into the block again. He's too eager to get play side and out of his gap.

But his D lineman are not being gap sound. They are more worried about winning the block than making the stop.

You could live with one problem. But not both. SD is giving the play away with where they want to take the players but only Clark wins his original gap. Even Lowry who "won" rust away, ends up in the wrong gap. He and Clark are both in the hole. If they could close, it's a win. But they can't and there is too much cutback room.

[pbmax]

Sometimes, when the D dares you to run it, you should run it. Right down their throats until they are forced out of their defense.

Not sure they were daring them. They loaded up the box on early downs. It was a nickel and they played 4-2-5, with seven in coverage.

Chargers Run D in nickel played much better than the Packers run D in nickel.

[mraynrand]

Not sure they were daring them. They loaded up the box on early downs. It was a nickel and they played 4-2-5, with seven in coverage.

Chargers Run D in nickel played much better than the Packers run D in nickel.

Like other games we’ve seen, the front four esp the ends are just going full speed upfield to the QB. You can catch them in that but you have to adjust. Maybe it doesn’t work because you are just having and awful day, but it didn’t seem like they adjusted all that much except to chip and help in pass pro but that wasn’t all that effective either. I’d check the game tape but I’m not sure I want to watch that again.

[pbmax]

Like other games we’ve seen, the front four esp the ends are just going full speed upfield to the QB. You can catch them in that but you have to adjust. Maybe it doesn’t work because you are just having and awful day, but it didn’t seem like they adjusted all that much except to chip and help in pass pro but that wasn’t all that effective either. I’d check the game tape but I’m not sure I want to watch that again.

I'd be more comfortable with that if they had succeeded more with runs generally. But it doesn't seem like they were.

I was surprised to see outside zone again when it seemed that inside zone would eliminate the outside rushers from chasing.

Also possible Packers, due to mistakes, were entirely predictable on down and distance.

[Bossman641]

Rivers between the hashes...10/11 for 197 yards.

Teams are (once again) killing us in the middle of the field. Feels like they can get yards anytime they need them.

[Radagast]

Much homework to do before Carolina comes to play in GB.

[George Cumby]

Rivers between the hashes...10/11 for 197 yards.

Teams are (once again) killing us in the middle of the field. Feels like they can get yards anytime they need them.

This sounds distressingly familiar. Are they gonna get that fixed or clean up the communication?

[mraynrand]

I'd be more comfortable with that if they had succeeded more with runs generally. But it doesn't seem like they were.

I was surprised to see outside zone again when it seemed that inside zone would eliminate the outside rushers from chasing.

Also possible Packers, due to mistakes, were entirely predictable on down and distance.

Yes, inside zone. Keep running that. Post game interviews with SD defenders: they claimed to have all the pass/ run cues figured out. Were ‘never surprised’ Maybe they were talking with people in the Lions‘ organization?

[KYPack]

In the spirit of "surveying the wreckage" I checked out some Charger sites. The Charger DL is going to get a huge boost in the coming weeks.

I sure didn't realize it, but both Charger DT's were out for this game. Both Brandon Mebane and Justin Jones will be back, possibly a soon as next game. Jones is very solid and Mebane is a legendary , old fashioned, 2 gaping DT. Think a Grady Jackson who can rush the passer some. The DT that flashed against us was Jerry Tillery their '19 top draft pick. Their top sub interior DT was also out and will return shortly. With those two crazy edge rushers free to wreak havoc, that DL will be a factor. The Bolts might have something brewing in that soccer field in LA.

[pbmax]

Coach's post mortem: https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/11/04/packers-matt-lafleur-reevaluate-preparation-west-coast-trip/4160510002/

1. They did fly out Friday. Its been done before. Going to reevaluate.

2. DIdn't do a good enough job conveying what kinda team they were about to play (more like 12-4 last year than the record this year)

3. Rodgers said it was important for everyone on offense to reevaluate how they used the extra day in California – the 48 hours before kickoff – to prepare for a game

4. Lack of preparation, as well as overconfidence, was a common refrain in the locker room, and not just from the offense

5. LaFleur said no one missed curfew, but did not say how late curfew was set, or if he loosened restrictions on how his players spent their time.

6. He said the defense needs to figure out its gap-integrity issues, a common problem this season.

7. He said receiver Marquez Valdes-Scantling needs to be put “in better spots” to produce.

8. “There’s no doubt,” LaFleur said, “I was not patient enough with the game plan.”

Not going to deny gbgary, I liked reading #8 :D

[KYPack]

Coach's post mortem: https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/11/04/packers-matt-lafleur-reevaluate-preparation-west-coast-trip/4160510002/

1. They did fly out Friday. Its been done before. Going to reevaluate.

2. DIdn't do a good enough job conveying what kinda team they were about to play (more like 12-4 last year than the record this year)

3. Rodgers said it was important for everyone on offense to reevaluate how they used the extra day in California – the 48 hours before kickoff – to prepare for a game

4. Lack of preparation, as well as overconfidence, was a common refrain in the locker room, and not just from the offense

5. LaFleur said no one missed curfew, but did not say how late curfew was set, or if he loosened restrictions on how his players spent their time.

6. He said the defense needs to figure out its gap-integrity issues, a common problem this season.

7. He said receiver Marquez Valdes-Scantling needs to be put “in better spots” to produce.

8. “There’s no doubt,” LaFleur said, “I was not patient enough with the game plan.”

Not going to deny gbgary, I liked reading #8 :D

The Bolts have yet another defensive returnee that can really bolster their D. All World SS Derwin James should be returning around December 1st if not sooner. If they can field all their players in time, the LAC should get quite a few stops and sacks out of that bunch.

[Fritz]

What we got today was a bad performance by players and coaching staff. But some people can't handle the idea that Rodgers and LaFleur are working quite well together. They need to believe there is a rift between the 2. Whatever.


When the Packers were winning, there was no rift. When they lose, there's a rift.

I am also ready to pounce due to this loss. They may not finish 6 - 10, as I predicted, but now you can see how they will fall apart the rest of the season and finish 7 - 9. It's going to get ugly. The defense gives it up more than my sister did in high school. Bulaga is acting his age. Bahk is slipping. Bringing Davante Adams back has screwed up the offense's collective head.

Watch that Panthers' running back rip the Packer defense to shreds next week. Watch the team go into the break with two losses in a row, dazed and confused and pointing fingers.

W're doomed! We're all gonna die!

PS - on a serious note, WTF on the Packers' special teams? They seem to be getting worse and worse every week. Teams deliberately kick the ball short on kickoffs to force the Packers to return it, knowing they'll be stopped three to five yards short of the 25 yard line. JK Scott seems to be losing his mojo. Our punt returners go backward. Opposing returners are gashing the coverage units. It is this, seldom-spoken of part of the game, that is really hampering both the offense and defense. Why oh why wouldn't Murphy allow The Flower to hire the expensive guy he wanted, instead of Shawn Meninges, or Shaun of the Dead, or whoever he is?

[Joemailman]

When the Packers were winning, there was no rift. When they lose, there's a rift.

I am also ready to pounce due to this loss. They may not finish 6 - 10, as I predicted, but now you can see how they will fall apart the rest of the season and finish 7 - 9. It's going to get ugly. The defense gives it up more than my sister did in high school. Bulaga is acting his age. Bahk is slipping. Bringing Davante Adams back has screwed up the offense's collective head.

Watch that Panthers' running back rip the Packer defense to shreds next week. Watch the team go into the break with two losses in a row, dazed and confused and pointing fingers.

W're doomed! We're all gonna die!

PS - on a serious note, WTF on the Packers' special teams? They seem to be getting worse and worse every week. Teams deliberately kick the ball short on kickoffs to force the Packers to return it, knowing they'll be stopped three to five yards short of the 25 yard line. JK Scott seems to be losing his mojo. Our punt returners go backward. Opposing returners are gashing the coverage units. It is this, seldom-spoken of part of the game, that is really hampering both the offense and defense. Why oh why wouldn't Murphy allow The Flower to hire the expensive guy he wanted, instead of Shawn Meninges, or Shaun of the Dead, or whoever he is?

You should start the Game Day Thread.

[Fritz]

I think it's too soon in the season. I'll wait until there are a few more injuries and things are looking really bad.

[gbgary]

You do realize that the Chargers gave the Packers 4.1 ypc? It wasn't a dominating performance, it was just better than the pass game.

The Packers are Top 10 in the League in offense with that spread crap. That spread crap ran up the score on the Cowboys and the Chiefs. It nearly won back the game against the Eagles.

Even at its worst last year, the Packers offense was mediocre, not terrible. They were never the Browns with Rodgers at QB.

there wasn't as much spread crap in the games adams missed and O dominated. those games more closely resembled the way MLF wants the O to look. if he had his way there'd be even less or none but rodgers, the "i'm only interested in winning now" OC, can't help himself. MLF actually said the game was basically all 2-minute offense. that means rodgers was calling most, if not all, of the plays. i didn't see it but some have said they saw rodgers drawing up routes with adams in the huddle. smh

[pbmax]

there wasn't as much spread crap in the games adams missed and O dominated. those games more closely resembled the way MLF wants the O to look. if he had his way there'd be even less or none but rodgers, the "i'm only interested in winning now" OC, can't help himself. MLF actually said the game was basically all 2-minute offense. that means rodgers was calling most, if not all, of the plays. i didn't see it but some have said they saw rodgers drawing up routes with adams in the huddle. smh

But he is also the guy who has said you need to tailor the offense to the personnel. And the Packers don't run the outside zone well and to do it even above average, you need to take Jones out of the game and put Williams in. TEs being terrible don't help.

McVay isn't running Shanny's offense in LA and Shanahan isn't running the Atlanta offense in San Fran. You work with the talent.

I think most of the second half game plan was a reaction to being down and having no offense at all. As he said, he needs to stick with the plan.

[Fritz]

If he doesn't run Jones and Williams at least 25 times against that awful Panthers' run defense I'll be very disappointed.

If he does run Jones and Williams at least 25 times against that awful Panthers' run defense Tex will be very disappointed.

Someone's going to be very disappointed.

[mraynrand]

If he doesn't run Jones and Williams at least 25 times against that awful Panthers' run defense I'll be very disappointed.

If he does run Jones and Williams at least 25 times against that awful Panthers' run defense Tex will be very disappointed.

Someone's going to be very disappointed.

I just hope it isn’t Jones or Williams.

[Zool]

I hope they don't false start on 3rd down 3 times in the first half.

[3irty1]

That was 2015 Packers-Broncos bad. Rodgers can take his share of the blame but the line couldn't block for shit and the defense couldn't stop anything. Just laid an all around egg. Tom Landry used to say that all good teams get blown out once per year. I guess we hope that is what this was. And at least Minnesota lost.

2015 Broncos was exactly what came to mind for me too. And like 2015 you've got to wonder if this was not just a whoopin on a bad day but an exposure that will become a recipe.

[mraynrand]

2015 Broncos was exactly what came to mind for me too. And like 2015 you've got to wonder if this was not just a whoopin on a bad day but an exposure that will become a recipe.

Not a recipe. Unless the Packers decide they won’t run the ball the rest of the year - or do any of the other alleged crap that derailed them this week.

Of course, that being said, they do have obvious weaknesses, so don’t be shocked when they lose more games and exit the playoffs prob at the Divisional round.

[Fritz]

I wonder if paying more attention to gaps will help them stop the run a bit but would then take away from the disruptiveness of the pass rush.

Those 40+ yard gains are becoming commonplace. It's freaky how easy it is to gain 40 yards on one play against Green Bay. What the hell is that all about?

[texaspackerbacker]

If he doesn't run Jones and Williams at least 25 times against that awful Panthers' run defense I'll be very disappointed.

If he does run Jones and Williams at least 25 times against that awful Panthers' run defense Tex will be very disappointed.

Someone's going to be very disappointed.

Haven't I always said, if the Packers had the Badgers scenario - a dominant O Line, a Great RB, and a mediocre QB, then I'd be all for Run-First.

Well, we are now at 1 out of 3. You could say, bad Run D by the opponent makes our O Line seem something closer to dominant. So yeah, I'd be all for mixing in more runs than usual. 25 times in the game would still seem to be less than half the snaps, assuming we don't turn the ball over or have too many 3 and outs.

The much bigger question mark in this game and in general is, can our D stop anybody?

[beveaux1]

I wonder if paying more attention to gaps will help them stop the run a bit but would then take away from the disruptiveness of the pass rush.

Those 40+ yard gains are becoming commonplace. It's freaky how easy it is to gain 40 yards on one play against Green Bay. What the hell is that all about?

When you play not to lose, this is what you get. We see tentative tackling, shading their man but not covering him, huge holes in the run game with one LB that's expected to stop the explosive play.

Early in the season, the defense did quite a bit of attacking. Now that the offense has been playing better, we play a form of prevent. There are six man boxes with only one LB. We play a lot of zone,
hoping for the interception, but a missed tackle away from a 50 yard gain. Even our man to man is soft. Our DBs play 10 yards off the LOS on a 3rd and 2.

Sometimes, when you try to limit the big play, you can't make the easy play. That's what we're doing and we have too much talent on defense for that to happen.

We need to get back on attack mode. Let's play tight man to man, one deep safety, blitz from anywhere. Make the opposing QB worry about being hit and if he connects with
a receiver that's uncovered, that's a risk we have to take.

I'd rather that than what we've seen the past 5 games, 8 minute drives, never a stop until deep inside the red zone, no punts, and long gainers in zone.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There are articles in WI Journal showing Z Smith handcuffed and arrested for possession of reefer. Can't bring myself to click.

[pbmax]

You cannot be beat playing zone with 50 yard pass plays. You have to be actively screwing up. It’s designed to allow short completions.

I think the amount of zone being reported is an overestimation. If you watch King and Alex, it’s not normally zone.

Down and distance play a role.

[Fritz]

Romo seemed to think the Packers were playing a lot of man to man, and Rivers just picked them apart.

[beveaux1]

You cannot be beat playing zone with 50 yard pass plays. You have to be actively screwing up. It’s designed to allow short completions.

I think the amount of zone being reported is an overestimation. If you watch King and Alex, it’s not normally zone.

Down and distance play a role.

If they’re playing man to man, it’s the softest man to man I’ve ever seen. The defender is trailing the receiver by 3 yards or the receiver catches the ball in the middle with no defender in the picture. I don’t have access to the coaches film, but on a lot of plays we had no defender following a motion man. That usually signifies zone. If Romo said they were mainly playing man to man, that coverage is very puzzling...and very poor.

[pbmax]

If they’re playing man to man, it’s the softest man to man I’ve ever seen. The defender is trailing the receiver by 3 yards or the receiver catches the ball in the middle with no defender in the picture. I don’t have access to the coaches film, but on a lot of plays we had no defender following a motion man. That usually signifies zone. If Romo said they were mainly playing man to man, that coverage is very puzzling...and very poor.

Those crossing routes are designed to defeat man to man. If they have time and get past the underneath defender (even in man to man, ILBs often take drops if no receiver needs to be accounted for) its hard to defense in man to man.

Pass rush wasn't getting home.

[Fritz]

But is the pass rush not getting home because the line is playing more conservatively, thinking about filling gaps and using only straight-ahead rushes? Or are teams now doubling or chipping the Smith Brothers while others are not winning one-on-one's?

[mraynrand]

Or are teams now doubling or chipping the Smith Brothers while others are not winning one-on-one's?

I don't know if this has increased, but teams are running it and getting the ball out fast. Not controlling for TOP, Chargers ran it 38 times vs. Pack compared to 23 times average this season. Oakland 31 vs 25.

[Fritz]

That makes sense. If the Packers are going to get gashed for five or six yards a pop in the run game, why not hand it off a few times?

[Fritz]

That makes sense. If the Packers are going to get gashed for five or six yards a pop in the run game, why not hand it off a few times?

[pbmax]

But is the pass rush not getting home because the line is playing more conservatively, thinking about filling gaps and using only straight-ahead rushes? Or are teams now doubling or chipping the Smith Brothers while others are not winning one-on-one's?

To stop those crossing routes, you need inside pressure to clog up sight lines. They are not getting it.

wist may have burned out too many neurons relieving his anxiety by self-medicating, but he's not wrong about the still too short supply of talent on that side of the ball.

tex is right too. Northwestern is not getting it done inside.

[pbmax]

But is the pass rush not getting home because the line is playing more conservatively, thinking about filling gaps and using only straight-ahead rushes? Or are teams now doubling or chipping the Smith Brothers while others are not winning one-on-one's?

I think its a reaction to a good pass rush. It could be opponent dependent, but opposing offenses have not been taking 5 and 7 step drops to go deep for quite a while.

[Fritz]

To stop those crossing routes, you need inside pressure to clog up sight lines. They are not getting it.

wist may have burned out too many neurons relieving his anxiety by self-medicating, but he's not wrong about the still too short supply of talent on that side of the ball.

tex is right too. Northwestern is not getting it done inside.

My God, with the resources both Ted and Gutes have plowed into that side of the ball, you'd think they'd have an All-Star defense at this point.

Lots of mistakes. Josh Jones. Rollins. Oren Burks. Josh Jackson. Rashan Gary.

[ZachMN]

We need bigger bodies on the line to clog things up. I will always argue that your success depends on how either line plays; better D line makes linebackers etc all better. Oline good same thing.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If he doesn't run Jones and Williams at least 25 times against that awful Panthers' run defense I'll be very disappointed.

If he does run Jones and Williams at least 25 times against that awful Panthers' run defense Tex will be very disappointed.

Someone's going to be very disappointed.

Ain't nobody's gonna be disappointed if the Packers come out passing for an insurmountable 50-0 lead at the half, and then watch nothing but Boyle handoffs in the 2nd half.

All running the rock does is distort the GAB's fragile rhythm.

[pbmax]

Ain't nobody's gonna be disappointed if the Packers come out passing for an insurmountable 50-0 lead at the half, and then watch nothing but Boyle handoffs in the 2nd half.

All running the rock does is distort the GAB's fragile rhythm.

At home, much more doable. They couldn't do it versus the Super Chargers.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/28065597/the-nfl-non-qb-mvps-why-tj-watt-leads-way-why-christian-mccaffrey-missing

#1 rated non-QB in the MVP race according to ESPN.

And we're stuck with oft-injured King instead of the home town kid :'(