Rebuilding vs Retooling

[dissident94]

First post here.

I am not a firm believer in rebuilding. Not in the modern NFL. You cannot play so many young players and ever expect to win. All players need time to mature in the league and it helps to play behind veterans. Over time you can tell then who is good and who isnt. Just playing young guys doesn't mean they will develope. Thats my major problem witht he plan. Every year you have to start over if these guys don't work out. Just like the o-line this year compared to last year. With free agency you can have one down year and retool for teh next, but an overall rebuilding doesn't seem to work. You jsut turn into the 49ners. It will take years to pull out of. You need a good mix of younger and older players. He could have signed some quality players, we had the money.

Now I still have hope for this year. Always have hope.

[red]

great first post IMO

i agree with all of it

i just posted in another thread that there is no reason why it should take 5 years to rebuild with the income we bring in and the cap room we have

you will only teach the young guys how to lose doing what the team is trying to do. then you turn into the 49ers, arizona, browns, and texans

[Patler]

The problem as I see it is that you can't "retool" only from free agency. Your draft has to also supply a stream of replacement players, but preferrably not when they are rookies. The combination of 2nd and 3rd year drafted players taking over, combined with a few selected free agents worked well for a lot of seasons in GB, allowing them to put together a pretty impressive string of successful seasons.

Things changed because of the lack of production from drafts since 2000, the failure of a big signing in Joe Johnson and a bit of salary cap mismanagement that all culminated in the 2005 off season situation. Then, you throw in a few key injuries, a couple disgruntled players and you have the current situation.

With the salary cap and the rules that disadvantage the succesful teams, you can remain succesful only by not making a lot of personel mistakes, either drafting or signing players, including re-signing you own. The Packers simply made too many mistakes for too many years in a row with drafts and with signings. When you do, the fall tends to be abrupt as your roster ages and you have no quality replacements.

[KYPack]

The problem as I see it is that you can't "retool" only from free agency. Your draft has to also supply a stream of replacement players, but preferrably not when they are rookies. The combination of 2nd and 3rd year drafted players taking over, combined with a few selected free agents worked well for a lot of seasons in GB, allowing them to put together a pretty impressive string of successful seasons.

.

I'd say the mix is around 60% -40% or 70% - 30%, draft vs free agency. The thing I don't agree with is the current regimes disdain for the FA market. TT acts like this is something you have to do, but he hates it. I want him to be like Wolf who embraced both methods of making your team better.

Most say you can't rebuild thru FA. Wrong, you can but it's very hard. Check the '96 Panthers or '00 Patriots for teams that rebuilt thru FA.

[GBRulz]

excellent first post diss....and welcome to PR !

I agree with you, totally.

However, in defense to TT and FA this year... well, FA was very thin. The cap went up much higher than anticipated so you didn't have as many "cap casualties" as teams were able to hang on to their UFA's....

And I totally agree with the domino effect of poor drafts in the past.

I guess all we can hope for is that these young guys get better throughout the year. But I don't think sacraficing a season so these guys can learn is how it's supposed to be. Practicing and learning should occur at OTA's and training camp...not the regular season. certainly not a whole season.

[Patler]

The thing I don't agree with is the current regimes disdain for the FA market. TT acts like this is something you have to do, but he hates it. I want him to be like Wolf who embraced both methods of making your team better.


I'm not sure that's an accurate statement. He signed Woodson, Pickett and Manual. He tried to get Vinatieri and Arrington that we know of, and as closed mouthed as he is we really don't know who else he may have pursued. He also signed Ben Taylor, not a monumental signing, but I think clearly an upgrade for the position. Signing 3 and possibly 4 FAs to be starters for the defense is hardly sitting on your hands.

TT has been more active in free agency than people give him credit for.

[jack's smirking revenge]

excellent first post diss....and welcome to PR !

I agree with you, totally.

However, in defense to TT and FA this year... well, FA was very thin. The cap went up much higher than anticipated so you didn't have as many "cap casualties" as teams were able to hang on to their UFA's....

And I totally agree with the domino effect of poor drafts in the past.

I guess all we can hope for is that these young guys get better throughout the year. But I don't think sacraficing a season so these guys can learn is how it's supposed to be. Practicing and learning should occur at OTA's and training camp...not the regular season. certainly not a whole season.

Totally agree with you GBRulz and Patler. I think our talent is extremely poor because of many, many draft and free agency misfires. You can't fix this problem buying up all of the available mercenaries on the market.

The question still remains of whether or not TT is making the right combination of choices--draft and FA--to get us back where we need to be. I don't think we'll know for sure until next year.

tyler

[Scott Campbell]

The thing I don't agree with is the current regimes disdain for the FA market. TT acts like this is something you have to do, but he hates it. I want him to be like Wolf who embraced both methods of making your team better.


I'm not sure that's an accurate statement. He signed Woodson, Pickett and Manual.


I wouldn't necessarily throw Woodson into that group. He clearly wanted Pickett and Manual. It looks to me like he just signed Woodson because he had to spend some of that money, and wanted to maintain future cap flexibility.

[RashanGary]

GREAT Summary Patler!!!

Too many mistakes, one after another. The only way to fix it is to string together a few years of good decisions. It won't happen in one off season, it won't happen in 2 but in 3 or 4, it should start to come together.

Also, the Bears might be the best team in the NFL and they want to kill GB. This wasn't a very good first test for our young team.

[Patler]

I wouldn't necessarily throw Woodson into that group. He clearly wanted Pickett and Manual. It looks to me like he just signed Woodson because he had to spend some of that money, and wanted to maintain future cap flexibility.

Even if that's true, so what? Woodson was still clearly signed to be an upgrade and a starter. Sometimes you have to sign who you can if you can't get who you want. Had they signed Vinatieri and/or Arrington, perhaps Woodson wouldn't have been signed, but maybe they would have changed a few terms and signed all of them. We really don't know.

My point is TT was pretty active in free agency this year. Now you may diagree with who he went after, but he clearly didn't ignore free agency.

[dissident94]

I agree TT did make some moves in FA. I just don't like the idea of all of these young guys. You need more veterans. Alomst all our backups are 1rst or 2nd year guys. Taylor should be starting over Poppinga. Poppinga is not a quality starter right now. IN a few years maybe. My main point is the Steelers went 6-10 just 3 years ago. They didn't jump ship and dismantle the team but drafted smart and retooled and could have went to the super bowl the following year, but they did go the year later. Last year could have been take a step back to take a step forward but it has turned into a total rebuilding effort. We could be in trouble here.

[Fritz]

It's a compliment to the forum that so many people can speak sensibly after such a mind-numbing loss. I am of the opinion that Wolf's last draft, plus three crappy Sherman drafts, put this team in a position in which it was straight out short on talent. The players from the 2001-4 drafts should be the core of the team, those third, fourth, fifth and sixth year guys who are in their prime. But GB is short on those people.

One can question how far TT went into the youth movement; however, he has not ditched most of the Wolf-era leftovers - Tauscher, Clifton, Franks, Driver, (okay, Fergie), Favre, Henderson, KGB - so it appears he's not just indiscriminately tearing the team apart for the sake of youth.

We'll know a lot more at the end of 2007.

[Cheesehead Craig]

One thing the Steelers had going for them is Cowher. With him being there for so long, there was consistency with the coaches. Big plus with the same philosophy and such when you don't have a new DC or OC every year or 2.

[RashanGary]

The Bears went 4-12 two seasons ago and now they are legit SB contenders. The Packers will be fine assuming they make consistantly good decsions. Some will be bad, but we need a run of alot more good than bad.

We should get another high pick. We could turn that into a stud RB or anything really.

DT, DE, RB, WR, CB, LB...Hell, whatever it is that falls to us at 8 or 9 could really help.

[red]

i agree 100% that poor drafts are mostly responsible for the shit team we have now. those players should be the heart and soul of our team at this point, and the truth is, very few of them are still around.

but still, i didn't like that we had rookie battling rookie for starting spots, or we had rookies battling guys that shouldn't even be in the nfl for spots. they didn't need to bring in top notch vets, just decent average guys. we need some of those for at least depth imo