No Kaepernick workout thread?

[Guiness]

It's a slow week, gives us something to talk about :huh:

What a clown show that was. Lotta he said she said going on, some of it straight out contradictory - like was it a standard waiver or not? Florio figures NFL general counsel Jeff Pash was behind the whole thing. Florio's a lawyer too, they know their own kind.

[MadtownPacker]

It shouldn’t be a standard waiver. He shouldn’t even be getting this tryout. In instances I know of where someone sues their former employer they have to sign an agreement to never be hired again.

[Radagast]

I suspect some legal agreement was made and this performance served to fulfil that agreement. That said, I doubt that any team will make him any offers at all. He would, IMO, act as a media attraction and disrupt any teams operations. He is now more of a liability than an asset. Perhaps he will end up in Vince McMahon's new football league.

[pbmax]

It shouldn’t be a standard waiver. He shouldn’t even be getting this tryout. In instances I know of where someone sues their former employer they have to sign an agreement to never be hired again.

Funny that that doesn't seem to have happened.

[MadtownPacker]

Funny that that doesn't seem to have happened.What was funny and what didn’t happen?

Looking at it from a business perspective which is what the NFL is. The woke feelings stuff should not factor into it at all. Don’t see krappy being woke when it comes to Nikes China dealing. Why does he deserve a spot in the NFL? It is a job so like you, me and just about anyone else, I apply and maybe get called for an interview (audition) on their terms at their choosen location. If I don’t get called then that means I can’t be of service to them. If I do get called I go through a selection process that may end up with me getting told thank you but we are going a different direction. Sometimes you apply and never hear back at all.

It’s just business and I have no right to demand anything.

[MadtownPacker]

Reports I read about his workout said he was overthrowing uncovered WRs. Pretty much what he was doing his last year or two.

Now that is funny and that seems to have happened. :lol:

[pbmax]

What was funny and what didn’t happen?

Looking at it from a business perspective which is what the NFL is. The woke feelings stuff should not factor into in. Why does he deserve a spot in the NFL? It is a job so like you, me and just about anyone else, I apply and maybe get called for an interview (audition) on their terms at their choosen location. If I don’t get called then that means I can’t be of service to them. If I do get called I go through a selection process that may end up with me ghetto told thank you but we are going a different direction. Someone’s you apply and never hear back at all.

It’s just business and I have no right to demand anything.

So by applying to work for a business, you forfeit all rights? Sounds pretty un-American to me.

If the NFL wants my eyeballs to stay connected, it better reconsider that sentiment. Nearly ruined baseball.

Laws apply to businesses as well. They are coordinating a boycott over a player. Probably more than one player, but I haven't looked at the list of those still protesting in some time.

NFL wants you to think its a meritocracy, it is clearly not. Half of the League is making money hand over fist by being terrible and losing all but on purpose to New England.

1. Its a business that routinely demands public funds and therefore deserves more scrutiny than it gets.

2. Its a business that wants to collect money from its customers. Since the direct amount from individual patrons has declined as a percentage of revenue, and broadcast, cable and internet channels plus local ad revenue now dominate, pressure through those channels is appropriate.

3. Hiring and firing are governed by laws. Local, State and Federal. The NFL routinely invokes the meritocracy for thumbing their nose at them and trying to avoid workman's comp claims. This is enabled by a partial anti-trust exemption from the Feds. If the NFL doesn't play by its own rules, those exceptions should be withdrawn.

Please read next post as PFT finally made itself useful again in deciphering what the NFL actually wanted out of the workout.

[pbmax]

What was funny and what didn’t happen?

Funny that the NFL paid between $1 and $10 million and did not insist on that clause.

I wonder why?

[pbmax]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/16/nfl-tried-to-put-colin-kaepernick-in-legal-checkmate/

The NFL tied to trap him in the name of risk management. It wanted to forestall future claims from its blackballing.


Let that one sink in. The league, under the guise of acting out of the goodness of its own heart and/or to assuage the guilt of 32 months of Kaepernick being wrongfully denied an opportunity, set up a workout for all teams (even though any team could work him out at any time) and then, as he showed up for it, asked him to sign a waiver that not only protected the league and the Falcons against a torn ACL or some other injury that could have happened during the workout but also exonerated the league of any and all responsibility for the violations of his rights that may have (have) occurred since he grievance was settled in February.

As a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT, when Kaepernick’s camp suggested a standard injury waiver that didn’t sweep broadly to absolve the NFL from its ongoing violation of his rights, league representatives said that the proposed release had been drafted by NFL general counsel Jeff Pash, and that Pash wanted his release to be signed.

[pbmax]

Reports I read about his workout said he was overthrowing uncovered WRs. Pretty much what he was doing his last year or two.

Now that is funny and that seems to have happened. :lol:

Link?

It would be more convincing if not for more than half the League's starters average 65% completion rate on throws less than 10 yards.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFjqDc_hwho

[George Cumby]

I'd rather have a dude who can run with arm strength than some noodle armed pocket passer as my back up.

[MadtownPacker]

I don’t see rights being forfeited by anyone. Pretty standard to sign a waiver which kid sports and even low level company rec softball leagues do. How would a huge cash cow like the NFL not protect itself, even more so by someone who has blasted them in public? Applying for a job has nothing to do with rights unless there is discrimination. I don’t recall political beliefs being a protected class.

I do feel the NFL should get zero tax payer dollars or exemptions from taxes so on that one we agree. They are not a non-profit. Doesn’t really related to this story other then it is a very valid criticism.

ALL companies try the dodge workmans comp. Also agree it is shady but kaper is not an employee anymore so that would not apply to him. An irrelevant fact in this case.

Link would be one of your favorites, Twitter but how am I gonna find it now?

Cmon PB, you are one of the most if not the most informed poster here. That completion % is in a game with the WR covered and moving! I watched some of the video, thanks for posting it. I see him throwing to guys standing still facing him. He still has the big arm, always has. He doesn’t look energetic and doesn’t appear to be set on making an great impression. All thing that would most likely cause any applicant to not get called back. Some bad footwork too.

You have provided a lot of copy paste but I ask, why does he deserve a job? In the NFL or even Taco Bell? Have you protested at work, dogged your boss public ally, and brought negative attention to your company. Or if you own your own business have you allowed a CURRENT employee to do all that? The SJW stuff just isn’t reason enough for me. Dude fucked up and likely it was due to listening to his woman, which has been the downfall of many men. Cuz if all this extra curricular BS hadn’t happen then he would be in the league still. Really has nothing to do with his talent, even if he does suck at reading defenses.

[MadtownPacker]

I'd rather have a dude who can run with arm strength than some noodle armed pocket passer as my back up.How about one that turns away half the fans?

[pbmax]

I don’t see rights being forfeited by anyone. Pretty standard to sign a waiver which kid sports and even low level company rec softball leagues do. How would a huge cash cow like the NFL not protect itself, even more so by someone who has blasted them in public? Applying for a job has nothing to do with rights unless there is discrimination. I don’t recall political beliefs being a protected class.

There were specifically asking him to forfeit rights. There is a standard liability waiver that players sign every time they have a team workout. That is a forfeiture of rights that is standard and acceptable to virtually all players trying to get into the NFL.

The NFL tore that waiver up and wrote a new one that forfeited his rights (and future rights) to sue for their actions.

It was a trap engineering by Jeff Pash to protect the Legue for colluded for not hiring him. Its was a scam from start to finish.

The NFL does have a right to ask all players to abide by a standard of conduct. He was under no stricture at the time and has said he would not continue that form of protest.

[pbmax]

How about one that turns away half the fans?

It was a lot of heat and very little turned off fans. Lotta people looked at the numbers that season and they aligned with broadcast trends. He wasn't costing them half of anything.

[pbmax]

Think about the people that the Packers are trying to get you to think will successfully run the Packers offense if Rodgers goes down.

Joe Callahan
Laser Arm Show Boyle
DeShone Kizer
Brett Hundley
Scott Tolzien
Graham Harrell
Seneca Wallace

I don't care how good your scheme is. They aren't scoring enough points. In the last decade, only Matt Flynn was passably successful as a scheme fit.

[yetisnowman]

It was a lot of heat and very little turned off fans. Lotta people looked at the numbers that season and they aligned with broadcast trends. He wasn't costing them half of anything.

Seriously. Turn away my ass. As if fans aren't going to show up or tune in if Kaep is the backup for their team. If anything the people that disagree with him will feel just as motivated to show up to boo or show their allegiance to the Flag.

[Guiness]

MTP doth protest too much, methinks. You trying to stir shit, or are you that conservative? I'll grant that most of what I've seen about this is from PFT, and Florio is a notorious player rights advocate, but other than statements directly from the NFL I haven't seen anything to contradict it.


Funny that the NFL paid between $1 and $10 million and did not insist on that clause.

I wonder why?

A couple of guesses
-they were afraid to ask for it, knowing it would imply culpability
-they did ask, and the price for the settlement went from $10M to $100M (closer to the actual damages), an apology and an elucidation of facts!

The last bit would have some kind of tarnished the shield, so I think they went for a cheap settlement and a promise that a team could hire him, and when no one came looking (despite clear need) it was obvious the charade had started again and the NFL was forced to do something.

I'm pretty sick of the "he can't play, look, he got bench for Blaine freaking Gabbart" narrative. His last year was on Chip Kelly's atrocious 2-14 team. Gabbert was the starter coming out of camp. Despite Kelly's offense resembling a Keystone Cops reunion, Kaepernick's line was 16-4 TD/INT with a passer rating of 90.7 and a 59.2% completion ratio. Gabbert by contrast was 5-6, 68.4 and 59.6%. He can play, that is hardly questionable.

[pbmax]

I think it’s fair to ask is he the same after two years out. But he should have been in a camp rather than one of the other pud knockers.

That list of Packer backups is just embarrassing.

[Joemailman]

I think it’s fair to ask is he the same after two years out. But he should have been in a camp rather than one of the other pud knockers.

That list of Packer backups is just embarrassing.

And to think Taysom Hill could have been on that list.

[pbmax]

And to think Taysom Hill could have been on that list.

Exactly. Got into a Twitter argument with Huber about Kap on Team that doesn’t run read option. He couldn’t imagine it being a good idea to change offense. But he refused to acknowledge the unmitigated disaster of same McCarthy offense and no talent QBs in Packer recent history.

He couldn’t (or wouldn’t) acknowledge that changing the scheme for talent might be the way to go.

The idea is t score points. Not be ideologically committee to an offensive philosophy.

[MadtownPacker]

Guinness - You are weak for making it about politics and even weaker for your thinly veiled doth protest too much bullshit. Say it straight up if you want to call a mfer a woman.

Man up and answer why does he deserves a job, any job? I have dealt with actual discrimination in my life several times. Are you a supposed minority? I’m not, I just happen to be a kinda brown American. Never want that to be any advantage for me because I can stand on my own.

So since no one is going to change their mind answer the question, why does he deserve anything besides you agreeing with his politics (as you sorta exposed)?

How about any of you? Why does he deserve anything?

[Guiness]

Guinness - You are weak for making it about politics and even weaker for your thinly veiled doth protest too much bullshit. Say it straight up if you want to call a mfer a woman.

Man up and answer why does he deserves a job, any job? I have dealt with actual discrimination in my life several times. Are you a supposed minority? I’m not, I just happen to be a kinda brown American. Never want that to be any advantage for me because I can stand on my own.

So since no one is going to change their mind answer the question, why does he deserve anything besides you agreeing with his politics (as you sorta exposed)?

How about any of you? Why does he deserve anything?

No womanly comment, just pondering the pbmax-like 5 answers in a thread from a guy who really doesn't show his face around here much.

Never said he deserves a job. I do think it's obvious there has been an out and out decision that he will not play in the league again however, and that the league does not want to admit that. Why? I don't know, so follow the money. And the money here leads me to think the NFL is a worried they have exposure here.

He tweaked the nose of some rich, powerful men. I feel like they wanted to teach him a lesson and it got bigger than they ever imagined. No one said he deserves a job, but something make the NFL decide to run this unprecedented little side show. Rather than ask why he deserves a job, ask why the NFL tried to organize this event.

My politics and ethnicity? Nothing interesting there. Middle aged white male. Canadian, so my politics tend to be more progressive and socialist than those in the US, but probably still to the right of Bernie Sanders.

[pbmax]

Guinness - You are weak for making it about politics and even weaker for your thinly veiled doth protest too much bullshit. Say it straight up if you want to call a mfer a woman.

Man up and answer why does he deserves a job, any job? I have dealt with actual discrimination in my life several times. Are you a supposed minority? I’m not, I just happen to be a kinda brown American. Never want that to be any advantage for me because I can stand on my own.

So since no one is going to change their mind answer the question, why does he deserve anything besides you agreeing with his politics (as you sorta exposed)?

How about any of you? Why does he deserve anything?

Because he is one of the best 32 QBs in the world. Or was.

[George Cumby]

Because he is one of the best 32 QBs in the world. Or was.

And certainly still in the top 64.

[MadtownPacker]

I have always read everything on this forum. Since 2006. It’s kinda mandatory if I’m suppose to be an admin, which I fucking hate. Snarky bitch ass comments like your being a part of why. My post count is 1000 less than yours so I guess you don’t show your face much either?

You made the thread and I’m the first to respond and that’s a problem? How about you shove whatever I wrote up your Mounted ass since it’s all shit to you anyways so I won’t bother adding more.

PB, George - I’m gonna let it go. But consider changing the thread topic to official kappy fanboys club.

[Guiness]

And certainly still in the top 64.

This. The list of has beens and never was's bouncing around the league (I'm looking at you Josh Johnson!) and his phone doesn't ring is crazy.

In every other case talent trumps all in this league, but he never even got a second chance. Wife beaters, illicit drug users, Vicodin addicts, all. The shield really, really, doesn't want him around.

[Rastak]

Yea, he's top 64. If I owned a business and one of my employees was really productive but alienated the shit out of my customers I boot his fucking ass as far as I could kick him. In football, if he was the best or even top 16 I'd consider it but other than that, adios asshole.

[Guiness]

Yea, he's top 64. If I owned a business and one of my employees was really productive but alienated the shit out of my customers I boot his fucking ass as far as I could kick him. In football, if he was the best or even top 16 I'd consider it but other than that, adios asshole.

Ok, that's an interesting statement - do you feel he alienated the shit out of NFL fans? To the point that they'd stop attending/watching?

It's the opposite of the way yetisnowman feels, and I wonder if you're right. Follow the money, the only explanation I can come up with for this is him in the league would hurt their bottom line.

Myself, I'm surprised that one of the 31 egotistical fiercely independent billionaires didn't decide he was going to win them some games, flip the rest of the league the finger and sign him.

[pbmax]

Yea, he's top 64. If I owned a business and one of my employees was really productive but alienated the shit out of my customers I boot his fucking ass as far as I could kick him. In football, if he was the best or even top 16 I'd consider it but other than that, adios asshole.

There is little to no evidence he alienated customers. The TV decline originally cited was consistent with overall broadcast TV ratings decline for football and was in fact less decline than the rest of TV suffered.

This isn’t about paying customers. This is about PR problems and no team wanting to defend political speech that isn’t as reflexively popular as veterans on the field holding the flag.

The NFL acknowledged this by giving players an option to not go out on the field early. Had they come to that sensible solution in Year 1, it isn’t an issue.

[QBME]

Sorry (again), I'm late (again) to the thread.

So where is Tank? Seems this would be in his wheelhouse.

Maybe.

Yes?

No?

[Joemailman]

There is little to no evidence he alienated customers. The TV decline originally cited was consistent with overall broadcast TV ratings decline for football and was in fact less decline than the rest of TV suffered.

This isn’t about paying customers. This is about PR problems and no team wanting to defend political speech that isn’t as reflexively popular as veterans on the field holding the flag.

The NFL acknowledged this by giving players an option to not go out on the field early. Had they come to that sensible solution in Year 1, it isn’t an issue.

And even less evidence it would be an issue now. People and players have kind of moved on. A couple of years ago you had POTUS weighing in on the issue in his own inimitable fashion. I doubt that would be the case now.

Having said that, the way Kap handled this weekend might cause some to think he's more motivated by creating publicity than by getting a chance to play football. That may scare some teams off. Rad suggested maybe he'll end up in Vince McMahon's new league. That might be a better fit.

[Rastak]

Ok, that's an interesting statement - do you feel he alienated the shit out of NFL fans? To the point that they'd stop attending/watching?

It's the opposite of the way yetisnowman feels, and I wonder if you're right. Follow the money, the only explanation I can come up with for this is him in the league would hurt their bottom line.

Myself, I'm surprised that one of the 31 egotistical fiercely independent billionaires didn't decide he was going to win them some games, flip the rest of the league the finger and sign him.



Do you recall the pulled sponsors? I kinda do. That's cash money.

[Joemailman]

Sorry (again), I'm late (again) to the thread.

So where is Tank? Seems this would be in his wheelhouse.

Maybe.

Yes?

No?

He's busy flipping burgers for minimum wage.

[pbmax]

Do you recall the pulled sponsors? I kinda do. That's cash money.

No I don't. I do remember Nike taking him on and making a boatload of money even as their shares fell temporarily on the panic.

[Rastak]

No I don't. I do remember Nike taking him on and making a boatload of money even as their shares fell temporarily on the panic.


That was well after the fact.

[George Cumby]

Timely:

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/10/21/20921462/nfl-football-woke-colin-kaepernick-take-a-knee

[Guiness]

Do you recall the pulled sponsors? I kinda do. That's cash money.

I don't...did anyone pull out?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I remember some advertisers saying that they would pull ads if the television stations showed the kneeling.

[texaspackerbacker]

Hey Madtown, it seems like you're encouraging the turning of this thread into FYI material hahahahaha.

I'll just say, the despicable shit Kaepernick did and said is old business now. If he's willing to settle down and be normal, then he should be judged on how he can play football.

I saw the Lions/Cowboys game today, and Detroit got a lot of mileage out of a similar player - Driskel. I'd rather have somebody like him who can do some running than an immobile guy, noodle armed or not. That is especially true given the O Line that we have that can barely protect on a good day. As I think I said in a different thread, using Kaepernick like the Niners used him when he was second string would be a wise move.

Bottom line: I wouldn't mind the Packers getting him - although I strongly doubt that will happen.

[George Cumby]

^ A true litmus test for whether most have moved on.

[pbmax]

The new waiver.

Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL
Sunday edition of Commercial Law 101: If you’re Colin Kaepernick, under no circumstances do you sign this Release, which could operate as a backdoor waiver of any future collusion claims. Read paras. 2 and 7 together, and you’ll see the problem. (h/t⁦ ⁦@ProFootballTalk)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJl7Hu8WsAA0cfO?format=jpg&name=medium


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJl7H77WsAQajZC?format=jpg&name=medium

[pbmax]

"losses (including death)" is metaphorically killing me.

Surprised they did not specifically mention "news leak". Though indemnifying "partners" covers anyone with rights to broadcast games.

Daniel Wallach @WALLACHLEGAL
Cliffs Notes version:
“Player... agrees to indemnify and hold harmless... the National Football League... from ANY and ALL claims... related directly or INDIRECTLY to the Workout...”

@WALLACHLEGAL
The “directly or indirectly” language in paragraph 7 is the key. If NFL was acting in good faith, it would have agreed to carve-out language (e.g., “Notwithstanding the foregoing” or “provided, however”) that expressly excluded any collusion claims from the scope of the release.

Brad_OTC @BradOTC
Had the exact same thought.
Even the beginning of paragraph 7 gives me pause with the mention of “consideration for the opportunity”
That reads to me as: to be granted this workout opportunity, you release the NFL from all future liability

Omar Kelly @OmarKelly
And this contract was specifically written for Colin Kaepernick.....it isn’t standard.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Sorry (again), I'm late (again) to the thread.

So where is Tank? Seems this would be in his wheelhouse.

Maybe.

Yes?

No?

I mistakenly assumed PBMax was the typical forum moderator: an uptight, shortsighted, narrow-minded hypocrite, as Yoko's late husband used to say. Reading this thread, I've discovered that PB is kinda cool.

Thus, I am yielding this fight to him.

Besides, y'all know that I've been kneeling with Kap since we knelt together during the damn anthem prior to the boring shareholder meeting at Lambeau, summer of '13.

Asked Kap why he ain't at the 69ers' camp. He was like, dude, I own the Packers! I was like, word - although that abomination Mr. Hyde spotted ya one.

Kap was like, lol, Hyde couldn't catch a cold standing naked with the majestic Polar Bears on the North Pole.

Capitalism is an iron trap
Capitalists are inhumane saps
Vive le Kap! Vive le Kap!

[call_me_ishmael]

Funny, I honestly think the NFL would have seen to it that he was signed if he did the workout in good faith so it gets him off their case.

I agree the contract verbage gives me pause so does every other contract's verbage.

Much ado about nothing. I don't think Kap will ever play again.

[Teamcheez1]

There were specifically asking him to forfeit rights. There is a standard liability waiver that players sign every time they have a team workout. That is a forfeiture of rights that is standard and acceptable to virtually all players trying to get into the NFL.

The NFL tore that waiver up and wrote a new one that forfeited his rights (and future rights) to sue for their actions.

It was a trap engineering by Jeff Pash to protect the Legue for colluded for not hiring him. Its was a scam from start to finish.

The NFL does have a right to ask all players to abide by a standard of conduct. He was under no stricture at the time and has said he would not continue that form of protest.

Do you have a credit card? You give up your rights to sue in the terms and conditions.
Businesses have the right to reduce their liability. You want to do business with the big boys, you agree to their terms. You refuse, that's your choice, but you don't have the right to dictate terms.

I set the terms for people who want to do business with me, not them.

[Zool]

Reading this thread, I've discovered that PB is kinda cool. Thus, I am yielding this fight to him.

Is that because you don't understand some of the words?

[MadtownPacker]

^ A true litmus test for whether most have moved on.For the record I don’t care about the kneeling crap. It was attention whore stuff as far as that goes. The victim mentality is what disgust me. I don’t believe he even wants to play anymore. Because if he does and fails then who can he blame? Laying blame and not taking responsibility for one’s own action and the consequences that happen because of them is what is sinking the ship. That’s why I say fuck him. Cuz I think the fuss is coming from a dishonest place. That is just my opinion of course.

I am glad this thread was started because it is a great NFL topic and I was interested in discussing it. But the pussy that Guinness is started making it about my beliefs (which he is actually incorrect about). He still hasnt responded about the post count he tried to run his mouth about!

Since I can remember, I have always enjoyed the “racial” wisecracks from other posters about Mexican this or that. I have also returned them gladly. I can’t think of anyone here who I would say is racist or offended me. And if they are racist on here (maybe Aynrand and Harlan)? Well I’m happy they are here. PackerRats has always welcomed all opinions. Even if untrue, even if aimed at the owner or the admins. Don’t expect acceptance on everything but do expect tolerance here. Yes sometimes it takes some restraint to not abuse the ban switch. That’s is as far as it goes. I have even lost friendships here over it. Retailguy would be a prime example. I turned my back on the man who had always been with me because the code here will not be broken. That code is the one that protects any info you provided here. Email, ISP and whatever people post. The only thing not allowed is shit that you would find on the dark web. Everything else is a “I didnt see a damn thing”. It’s what got this place started in the first place. I hold it close to heart, probably too much at times. This place isn’t for profit. It is for everyone to discuss, agree or fight. To make your ego boost for being right, or raise your blood pressure from getting pissed off.

Just like I told RashanGary, you all welcome come here, you are all home, and you are all loved.

[pbmax]

Chip Kelly has ruined a lot of lives and should be avoided at all costs.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Ok, that's an interesting statement - do you feel he alienated the shit out of NFL fans? To the point that they'd stop attending/watching?

It's the opposite of the way yetisnowman feels, and I wonder if you're right. Follow the money, the only explanation I can come up with for this is him in the league would hurt their bottom line.

Myself, I'm surprised that one of the 31 egotistical fiercely independent billionaires didn't decide he was going to win them some games, flip the rest of the league the finger and sign him.

Egoistical, not egotistical. Rand would concur with this, but he apparently is boycotting Packerrats due to a battered ego. Disagreed with Madtown re. Pig Five-0s.

Mostly, bigots fighting for the wrong side (i.e., Tony O’Day) are the ones offended by the kneel downs. Quasi-socialistic NFL would be cooler without them bigots.

[MadtownPacker]

APB - I am also guilty of it a bit as of late but let’s keep the FYI battles to FYI. I understand this topic kinda merges them so it is hard to avoid.

I was just messing with Aynrand on the racist crack. Harlan is still up for debate.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

APB - I am also guilty of it a bit as of late but let’s keep the FYI battles to FYI. I understand this topic kinda merges them so it is hard to avoid.

I was just messing with Aynrand on the racist crack. Harlan is still up for debate.

Word.

Ole Rand is still boycotting the forum, though. He used to post bad puns every day.

[George Cumby]

For the record I don’t care about the kneeling crap. It was attention whore stuff as far as that goes. The victim mentality is what disgust me. I don’t believe he even wants to play anymore. Because if he does and fails then who can he blame? Laying blame and not taking responsibility for one’s own action and the consequences that happen because of them is what is sinking the ship. That’s why I say fuck him. Cuz I think the fuss is coming from a dishonest place. That is just my opinion of course.

I am glad this thread was started because it is a great NFL topic and I was interested in discussing it. But the pussy that Guinness is started making it about my beliefs (which he is actually incorrect about). He still hasnt responded about the post count he tried to run his mouth about!

Since I can remember, I have always enjoyed the “racial” wisecracks from other posters about Mexican this or that. I have also returned them gladly. I can’t think of anyone here who I would say is racist or offended me. And if they are racist on here (maybe Aynrand and Harlan)? Well I’m happy they are here. PackerRats has always welcomed all opinions. Even if untrue, even if aimed at the owner or the admins. Don’t expect acceptance on everything but do expect tolerance here. Yes sometimes it takes some restraint to not abuse the ban switch. That’s is as far as it goes. I have even lost friendships here over it. Retailguy would be a prime example. I turned my back on the man who had always been with me because the code here will not be broken. That code is the one that protects any info you provided here. Email, ISP and whatever people post. The only thing not allowed is shit that you would find on the dark web. Everything else is a “I didnt see a damn thing”. It’s what got this place started in the first place. I hold it close to heart, probably too much at times. This place isn’t for profit. It is for everyone to discuss, agree or fight. To make your ego boost for being right, or raise your blood pressure from getting pissed off.

Just like I told RashanGary, you all welcome come here, you are all home, and you are all loved.

Epic Post.

[George Cumby]

Word.

Ole Rand is still boycotting the forum, though. He used to post bad puns every day.


Where is Rand? Is he really boycotting or on vacation?

[pbmax]

Here is your blow by blow:

Full Dissident @hbryant42
Update: spoke with numerous sources today to clarify some points: Kaepernick team heard from the NFL on Tuesday, 11/12 and was told of Saturday’s workout. They weren't given 36 hours to consider the offer. They were given two, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. Take it or leave it.

2) Kaepernick’s team told the NFL there were “too many issues” to resolve with such short notice and proposed the following Tuesday, which was also a work day, allowing teams’ top decision makers to attend, and buy the negotiation more time. The NFL said no.

3) Kap atty: “If Saturday was such a magical day, I said let's move it to the following Saturday. They said no." That left Kaepernick to agree to the tryout before Hue Jackson and Joe Philbin knew they were running it or teams knew a workout was even happening.

4) On Tuesday, the NFLPA says it reached out to offer assistance, especially on the details of waiver which eventually doomed the deal. A PA source says the Kaepernick team was not particularly receptive, but the NFLPA did have a representative at Saturday’s workout.

5) By priority, the filming was the dealbreaker. “For two entities suing each other, that was the non-starter?” a Kap atty told me. “An independent camera made Colin believe it was a show of good faith after years of bad faith.” NFL source says workout offer itself = good faith.

6) To Kap’s attorney, none of the issues were “Unresolvable,” and they were convinced a deal would get done. The filming issue took precedence over the more-important waiver issue because Kaepernick’s team had no intention of signing it as presented.

7) Kap/NFLPA conflicted over a key point: the post-workout interview: If Kap said he would continue kneeling, would he be protected if his answer prompted no team to sign him? The PA said yes, b/c of 2019 deal protecting players from reprisal. Eric Reid/Kenny Stills kneel.

8) Kap attys say no, b/c the waiver forfeited his rights to take action against anything occurring at the workout, thus freeing the NFL from a potential 2nd collusion suit. “The terms were so broad I agreed with a Tweet: it would have been malpractice to sign it.”

9) Relocation became a real possibility late Friday/early Sat as talks disintegrated. Kap atty: “It looked coordinated but it was because Colin has so much support on the ground here with his Know Your Rights work in Atlanta".

10) One source said while the fault of the weekend to not get the workout done at the Falcons' facility was "80-20 the NFL's fault," the relationship with Kap is "scorched earth." Kap needed to reach out. Others believe the footage will spur curious GMs/coaches to watch.

11) Next: Nalley sent all 32 teams the raw footage of the workout with a note offering Colin to speak to any team either by phone or in person. Nalley said they are considering a 2nd workout during the owners meeting at Palm Beach in March where all 32 owners/GMs/coaches will be.

[pbmax]

Eric Reid @E_Reid35
Exactly. It was all an elaborate facade to get Colin to sign a waiver that forfeited his rights. But isn’t it interesting that when the league said it was ok, supposedly 25 teams showed up in ATL. Reeks of collusion

The idea that a special, short notice workout that the NFL arranged, which is not normal practice, is an example of "good faith" is interesting. As Reid points out, it also hints at the entire thing being arranged by the League office. Hence the waiver, hence the worry about collusion part 2.

[bobblehead]

There were specifically asking him to forfeit rights. There is a standard liability waiver that players sign every time they have a team workout. That is a forfeiture of rights that is standard and acceptable to virtually all players trying to get into the NFL.

The NFL tore that waiver up and wrote a new one that forfeited his rights (and future rights) to sue for their actions.

It was a trap engineering by Jeff Pash to protect the Legue for colluded for not hiring him. Its was a scam from start to finish.

The NFL does have a right to ask all players to abide by a standard of conduct. He was under no stricture at the time and has said he would not continue that form of protest.

Giving that they didn't put that clause in his original settlement, and he has a history of suing because he sucks, it only makes sense that if they give him this workout and he sucks they protect against him suing all over again. It would have been negligent to offer him this private workout and NOT protect against what he has a history of doing.

[bobblehead]

Think about the people that the Packers are trying to get you to think will successfully run the Packers offense if Rodgers goes down.

Joe Callahan
Laser Arm Show Boyle
DeShone Kizer
Brett Hundley
Scott Tolzien
Graham Harrell
Seneca Wallace

I don't care how good your scheme is. They aren't scoring enough points. In the last decade, only Matt Flynn was passably successful as a scheme fit.

BUT...Kap has no interest in playing, only being the center of attention. He doesn't want to be a content backup. No way I would want them to sign him.

[bobblehead]

I think it’s fair to ask is he the same after two years out. But he should have been in a camp rather than one of the other pud knockers.

That list of Packer backups is just embarrassing.

The same absolutely applies to Tebow. I don't see him suing or crying, or social justice warriors insisting he be brought in. Both are very similar imo. Good backups who bring too much controversy to be signed as backups.

[pbmax]

Giving that they didn't put that clause in his original settlement, and he has a history of suing because he sucks, it only makes sense that if they give him this workout and he sucks they protect against him suing all over again. It would have been negligent to offer him this private workout and NOT protect against what he has a history of doing.

Doesn't hold water. He can sue workout or not. The League wants you to think they are being magnanimous, but they are in reality staging it to protect themselves. If he has a workout and they can leak the problems (remember, they refused to let him or media film their session) they have created a sort of fact in the next round of lawsuit.

If he doesn't suck and is eventually signed, he can still sue over years not covered by first lawsuit unless he has signed that waiver. They want it covered either way. This wasn't an opportunity, its was a chess move.

If it was as easy to sue for this as you make it out, Reggie Gilbert or Jayrone Elliot would be suing for lost wages. The League settled because they were colluding, not because the consensus was that he could not play.

The League is more likely coordinating so that he is not signed to help them in future litigation. They have a tiger by the tail and are afraid to let go.

[pbmax]

The same absolutely applies to Tebow. I don't see him suing or crying, or social justice warriors insisting he be brought in. Both are very similar imo. Good backups who bring too much controversy to be signed as backups.

I don't remember anyone claiming Tebow was driving down ratings. Team's didn't like the circus. But even post circus he was with the Jets and then the Patriots in camp.

You get back to me when Kaepernick gets three more years after his circus year.

[bobblehead]

This. The list of has beens and never was's bouncing around the league (I'm looking at you Josh Johnson!) and his phone doesn't ring is crazy.

In every other case talent trumps all in this league, but he never even got a second chance. Wife beaters, illicit drug users, Vicodin addicts, all. The shield really, really, doesn't want him around.

He alienated half the fan base. That year I didn't watch anything other than Packer games. i am not unique. The league is right not to want him around. I also never watched a post dog slaughter michael vick game. Ray Rice was blackballed as well. Tebow as well. Can't have a guy talking anti abortion at post game pressers. Sometimes the headache ain't worth the upside. Certainly the case here. Is he top 32...not in my view. Top 64, likely, but he wouldn't have been like any backup in the league. I still maintain he wasn't protesting anything in that first "take a knee" moment. He didn't take a knee. He was pouting on the bench cuz he got benched. When asked about it he couldn't admit it so he flipped the script. Kap, no owner wants you on his team. You think you are bigger than the team. That won't fly.

[pbmax]

BUT...Kap has no interest in playing, only being the center of attention. He doesn't want to be a content backup. No way I would want them to sign him.

Assumes fact not in evidence. He has said he's sign to be a backup and doesn't have starter money demands.

When you have to resort to mind-reading to make the case, the case is weak.

[bobblehead]

There is little to no evidence he alienated customers. The TV decline originally cited was consistent with overall broadcast TV ratings decline for football and was in fact less decline than the rest of TV suffered.

This isn’t about paying customers. This is about PR problems and no team wanting to defend political speech that isn’t as reflexively popular as veterans on the field holding the flag.

The NFL acknowledged this by giving players an option to not go out on the field early. Had they come to that sensible solution in Year 1, it isn’t an issue.
Yet THIS year viewership is up. I almost wish he was signed and it started over again so you could see that it absolutely helped cause a decline. I have a ton of anecdotal evidence. Some empirical. Trust me, he cost them popularity in a big way. I get you have different politics than me and you don't want to believe that, but its simply true.

[pbmax]

He alienated half the fan base. That year I didn't watch anything other than Packer games. i am not unique. The league is right not to want him around. I also never watched a post dog slaughter michael vick game. Ray Rice was blackballed as well. Tebow as well. Can't have a guy talking anti abortion at post game pressers. Sometimes the headache ain't worth the upside. Certainly the case here. Is he top 32...not in my view. Top 64, likely, but he wouldn't have been like any backup in the league. I still maintain he wasn't protesting anything in that first "take a knee" moment. He didn't take a knee. He was pouting on the bench cuz he got benched. When asked about it he couldn't admit it so he flipped the script. Kap, no owner wants you on his team. You think you are bigger than the team. That won't fly.

There is literally a mountain of evidence that fans did not leave and are not leaving.

Ray Rice committed a crime and lied about it.

You didn't watch the Eagles Packers playoff game in 2010?

Tebow won a playoff game. Kaepernick nearly won a Super Bowl and was 4-2 in the playoffs. There is not Tebow comparison. Tebow stunk as a thrower.

[pbmax]

Yet THIS year viewership is up. I almost wish he was signed and it started over again so you could see that it absolutely helped cause a decline. I have a ton of anecdotal evidence. Some empirical. Trust me, he cost them popularity in a big way. I get you have different politics than me and you don't want to believe that, but its simply true.

All broadcast TV is down. The NFL continues to lose less viewership than ANY OTHER FORM of broadcast entertainment.

The gap between the NFL and the rest of broadcast TV is larger than its ever been. Which is why they command more money now for slightly declined ratings. Nothing else commands eyeballs like it does. And Kaepernick's entire year of kneeling didn't stop it.

Players still kneel and its not an issue. TV and NFL just don't show it.

[run pMc]

I don't know Kaepernick is doing it for attention. He might actually be doing it to get a job.
If you thought he was even 85% of the QB he was back in 2012 & 2013, and you're a team looking for a QB or a solid backup, you'd be an idiot not to bring him in for a workout and interview.

Eric Reid (and others who took a knee) managed to get NFL jobs or contract extensions, so the "turning away fans" claim is dubious IMO.

FWIW I take off my hat when the anthem is sung (unlike a lot of oblivious yahoos at events), have friends and family who have served in the military.
I don't think Kaepernick or players taking a knee is disrespectful. They're protesting violence, not the flag.
IMO it's easily better than a bunch of white supremacists walking around Charlottesville with torches chanting racist and anti-Semitic slogans.

[bobblehead]

Eric Reid @E_Reid35
Exactly. It was all an elaborate facade to get Colin to sign a waiver that forfeited his rights. But isn’t it interesting that when the league said it was ok, supposedly 25 teams showed up in ATL. Reeks of collusion

The idea that a special, short notice workout that the NFL arranged, which is not normal practice, is an example of "good faith" is interesting. As Reid points out, it also hints at the entire thing being arranged by the League office. Hence the waiver, hence the worry about collusion part 2.

Isn't it interesting that not one of those teams has brought him in for a one on one.

[bobblehead]

There is literally a mountain of evidence that fans did not leave and are not leaving.

Ray Rice committed a crime and lied about it.

You didn't watch the Eagles Packers playoff game in 2010?

Tebow won a playoff game. Kaepernick nearly won a Super Bowl and was 4-2 in the playoffs. There is not Tebow comparison. Tebow stunk as a thrower.

If you think Kap is a great passer your bias is showing.

[MadtownPacker]

If you think Kap is a great passer your bias is showing.Pretty much. This thread is a marvel because I have never seen PB get emotional that I can recall. I asked why he deserved a job and the response was because he is one of the 32 best QBs in the world. Maybe one of the strongest arms but even at his greatest he was rarely if ever hitting WRs in tight spots. Tony Dungy called kapernick top 100 but what does Dungy know.

Fun fact - I worked near Turlock (kapernicks hometown) for a few years during his SF playing time. Damn near all the employees lived in that town and while some took in his side and some did not they all remembered him being da man around town. I doubt this fool has ever faced real discrimination. Another reason he cries fall on deaf ears with me.

PB are you really Nessa Diab? Stand by your man? :lol:

My bad I just couldn’t resist. I’m trying to kaepernick my way to relevance on the forum again!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Kap's biggest issue, IMO is that what offense you going to run if you sign him? He's never been a good pocket passer. His strength is the offense the Ravens are running, but he's 32 yrs old and not as nimble as he used to be.

[pbmax]

If you think Kap is a great passer your bias is showing.

Good enough to get to the Super Bowl and win 4 playoff games.

There is a LOT of room between Tebow (with the world's longest windup) and great passer.

At some point, its going to occur to you that by having to exaggerate your own points or the points of others is really a sign of the weakness of the underlying argument.

[pbmax]

Pretty much. This thread is a marvel because I have never seen PB get emotional that I can recall. I asked why he deserved a job and the response was because he is one of the 32 best QBs in the world. Maybe one of the strongest arms but even at his greatest he was rarely if ever hitting WRs in tight spots. Tony Dungy called kapernick top 100 but what does Dungy know.

Fun fact - I worked near Turlock (kapernicks hometown) for a few years during his SF playing time. Damn near all the employees lived in that town and while some took in his side and some did not they all remembered him being da man around town. I doubt this fool has ever faced real discrimination. Another reason he cries fall on deaf ears with me.

PB are you really Nessa Diab? Stand by your man? :lol:

My bad I just couldn’t resist. I’m trying to kaepernick my way to relevance on the forum again!

Its not emotional. I cannot put myself in his or anyone else's shoes in this situation. The NFL is just a perverse clown show.

Here is a list of some players that have started games in the NFL recently:



kyle wilson @kwill44
reply to @AndrewBrandt and @JasonLaCanfora

And in that same span, these guys actually started games for NFL teams

Scott Tolzien
Nathan Peterman
Devlin Hodges
Taylor Heinicke
Ryan Finley
Jeff Driskel
Jon Johnson

Doesn't make any sense

But all 32 teams decided these guys were "better options"

Never made any sense

Unbelievable. Straight to your face they are claiming to be a meritocracy, by agreement with the players they are allowing the form of protest that caused the problem in the first place and they claim these doofuses are as good or better than Kaepernick.

I don't like being lied to.

Mad keeps using Cerebro to read minds to find reasons to doubt Kaepernick has faced real discrimination. That wasn't the reason for the original protest. This isn't hard.

[pbmax]

Kap's biggest issue, IMO is that what offense you going to run if you sign him? He's never been a good pocket passer. His strength is the offense the Ravens are running, but he's 32 yrs old and not as nimble as he used to be.

I had this argument with Huber on Twitter.

If Scott Tolzien running Mike McCarthy's offense doesn't convince you that scheme fit is overrated, I don't know what to tell you. Or Hundely. Or Kizer. Or Joe Callahan. Or Graham Harrell.

Talent wins out. Adjusting the scheme is easier than turning dung into gold at the QB position.

Rodgers runs mesh handoffs with the backs in shotgun (though he typically throws off them rather than runs). They run outside zone so the QB can boot and setup to hit 1-2 receivers on the backside of the play. This offense is built for a mobile QB. No reason they couldn't use pistol in pace of shotgun.

And if he runs, bonus.

The scheme is not such difference maker that it will elevate any QB. Has to be Matt Flynn or above and few teams are there.

[Tony Oday]

I hope this piece of shit never plays another down and loses all of his money and is broke back on white mom and dad's couch. Fuck him and Reid.

[MadtownPacker]

Its not emotional. I cannot put myself in his or anyone else's shoes in this situation. The NFL is just a perverse clown show.

Here is a list of some players that have started games in the NFL recently:




Unbelievable. Straight to your face they are claiming to be a meritocracy, by agreement with the players they are allowing the form of protest that caused the problem in the first place and they claim these doofuses are as good or better than Kaepernick.

I don't like being lied to.

Mad keeps using Cerebro to read minds to find reasons to doubt Kaepernick has faced real discrimination. That wasn't the reason for the original protest. This isn't hard.In my face they are being unfair? Well tough titty said the kitty cuz last I check life isn’t fair and business don’t have to be fair. They just cant discriminate for racial reasons. Last I checked the NFL is beyond diverse. If anything I need to be crying because hey why aren’t there more Hispanics in the NFL? I speak with the knowledge from my own experiences in my life and word from people that live in the town he grew up in. Is that not in your face or you saying I’m lying? Cuz if so we’ll you aren’t better then the NFL, no?

Where is your proof he has faced discrimination? Maybe when he was the starter at Nevada? Or was it when he took over pale ass Alex Smiths job in SF?

Aren’t you Black? Then you know what I’m talking about.:whaa:

[Cheesehead Craig]

I had this argument with Huber on Twitter.

If Scott Tolzien running Mike McCarthy's offense doesn't convince you that scheme fit is overrated, I don't know what to tell you. Or Hundely. Or Kizer. Or Joe Callahan. Or Graham Harrell.

Talent wins out. Adjusting the scheme is easier than turning dung into gold at the QB position.

Rodgers runs mesh handoffs with the backs in shotgun (though he typically throws off them rather than runs). They run outside zone so the QB can boot and setup to hit 1-2 receivers on the backside of the play. This offense is built for a mobile QB. No reason they couldn't use pistol in pace of shotgun.

And if he runs, bonus.

The scheme is not such difference maker that it will elevate any QB. Has to be Matt Flynn or above and few teams are there.

You're using Packer backup QBs performance vs Rodgers performance to show that talent wins over scheme? Well no shit when there's that much talent discrepancy and the scheme is "Rodgers, go make a play".

Why was it that Kap's effectiveness went down the tubes when SF changed coaches and then schemes from the RPO to pocket? Did his talent suddenly go away? He's best when he's mobile and he's proven that.

You absolutely have to build an offense around your QBs talents. I'm not saying that scheme wins every time, but forcing a player into a scheme he stinks at is only detrimental to the team. The Seahawks' passing offense was hot garbage last year and Carroll realized it and changed his scheme to a run-heavy offense. Went more towards his players' strengths and they turned it around and won more.

I get that scheme can eventually be caught up to (or even fall flat), but to completely dismiss that it has any importance is foolishness.

[MadtownPacker]

I hope this piece of shit never plays another down and loses all of his money and is broke back on white mom and dad's couch. Fuck him and Reid.You mad bro? :lol:

He won’t go broke. All this pretty much guarantees another Nike deal. Speaking engagements and a biography written by our very own PBMax with illustrations by George Cumby (only if you pre-order).

[SudsMcBucky]

After watching CK's post workout diatribe, any team would be beyond foolish to sign that jackwagon. He would be a terrible locker room presence.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I hope this piece of shit never plays another down and loses all of his money and is broke back on white mom and dad's couch. Fuck him and Reid.

Tell us, ODay, why do you hate Kap so much? Let me guess, b/c he's part black? You're a supporter of pig brutality? A proponent of racism.

No player in the NFL is/was disrespecting the pawns (soldiers) of the Capitalist Establishment. You're just to stupid to comprehend that truth.

(And what did that "cracka" thunderdan say about the anthem? The Yanks fought a war with the classy and classless and sophisticated Red Coats so that nobody would have to stand when goddamn anthem plays.)

Btw, I hope the economy tanks, you lose your business and commit su..., nevermind, I'm not the bigot "piece of shit" your are. Go root for the NHL if can't stand black folks protesting the vices of society.

[MadtownPacker]

APB - Maybe I haven’t seen it but what has he really done to make a difference? Again, the kneeling isn’t mine concern. The fact that he seems to have found a way to make himself a martyr (handsomely paid for it too) is what I find whack. That I don’t like him for stomping on the Packers doesn’t really matter.

A good example was Kim Kardashian. I had a low opinion of her and her attention whore behavior. But then she used her fame to do something I think is wonderful. She actively pushed for the release of a lady who was sentenced way, way too harshly for something she did at a young age. She left her comfort zone and worked for a cause she believes in. Not that it matters to anyone else but I now have some respect for her and hope she succeeds further for just causes.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

APB - Maybe I haven’t seen it but what has he really done to make a difference? Again, the kneeling isn’t mine concern. The fact that he seems to have found a way to make himself a martyr (handsomely paid for it too) is what I find whack. That I don’t like him for stomping on the Packers doesn’t really matter.

A good example was Kim Kardashian. I had a low opinion of her and her attention whore behavior. But then she used her fame to do something I think is wonderful. She actively pushed for the release of a lady who was sentenced way, way too harshly for something she did at a young age. She left her comfort zone and worked for a cause she believes in. Not that it matters to anyone else but I now have some respect for her and hope she succeeds further for just causes.

A lot. But off the top of my head, Kap donated his own frogskins to support the causes he's fighting for. And even though he and Reid might disagree with the issue somewhat, their protests eventually caused the NFL to pony up for a "social justice" program.

Kap is still better than a lot of the wankers playing QB in the NFL today. He's good enough to be on an NFL roster. Kap's being blackballed, no doubt. The martyr thing just Stephen A being an ass. Dr. Mobb Deep would concur.

[Patler]

For the most part, NFL teams employ three basic types of backup QBs:

- young players who were drafted for their potential to become starters.
- young players drafted or not who are hard workers and show potential for significant improvement.
- experienced players who are willing to maintain low profiles while supporting and promoting the current starter.

Does Kaepernick fit in any of those categories? I suspect most GMs have concerns.

As an aside, I think most Packer fans have skewed perspectives about his talent based on the outstanding games he played against the Packers. During his last two seasons, while playing under a new long-term contract with SF, he kept losing his starting job to Blaine Gabbert. The long term deal was renegotiated to allow him to opt out, which he did when SF informed him he would likely be released.

He had some success (especially against GB) when he was relatively new on the scene, but most of the league caught on to his strengths and weaknesses even if the Packers did not. QBs who routinely complete less than 60% of their passes in todays NFL aren't widely sought after.

If Kaepernick fit nicely in the last category above, I suspect he would have a job. I doubt anyone thinks he does.

[bobblehead]

Assumes fact not in evidence. He has said he's sign to be a backup and doesn't have starter money demands.

When you have to resort to mind-reading to make the case, the case is weak.

I am speculating based on evidence. The kunta kinte shirt made it pretty clear he is self promoting and not interested in playing. Stephen A Smith had been his biggest supporter and even he turned on him.

Guys say a lot of things when they want something. Martellus Bennet said he wanted to shut it down and get surgery....until NE signed him.

[bobblehead]

I don't know Kaepernick is doing it for attention. He might actually be doing it to get a job.
If you thought he was even 85% of the QB he was back in 2012 & 2013, and you're a team looking for a QB or a solid backup, you'd be an idiot not to bring him in for a workout and interview.

Eric Reid (and others who took a knee) managed to get NFL jobs or contract extensions, so the "turning away fans" claim is dubious IMO.

FWIW I take off my hat when the anthem is sung (unlike a lot of oblivious yahoos at events), have friends and family who have served in the military.
I don't think Kaepernick or players taking a knee is disrespectful. They're protesting violence, not the flag.
IMO it's easily better than a bunch of white supremacists walking around Charlottesville with torches chanting racist and anti-Semitic slogans.

He has made it clear through actions and remarks that he is protesting AMERICA. Protesting the Betsy Ross flag. And I agree. We shouldn't give contracts to guys chanting racist and anti semitic slogans either. Why would you think anyone does?

[bobblehead]

Good enough to get to the Super Bowl and win 4 playoff games.

There is a LOT of room between Tebow (with the world's longest windup) and great passer.

At some point, its going to occur to you that by having to exaggerate your own points or the points of others is really a sign of the weakness of the underlying argument.

Who is exaggerating. I say Tebow wasn't that good. Kapernick took the league off guard and after they got some film on him he couldn't win. He went to the Owl with dominant defense. He actually did lose his job to Blaine Gabbert. That is a fact. He got progressively worse. He was 8-8 his last season as a starter.

If anyone is stretching things, its the guy who thinks he was/is a good QB. If he had stuck around, worked at reading a D instead of whining and protesting he might be top 20. He didn't and isn't.

[bobblehead]

APB - Maybe I haven’t seen it but what has he really done to make a difference? Again, the kneeling isn’t mine concern. The fact that he seems to have found a way to make himself a martyr (handsomely paid for it too) is what I find whack. That I don’t like him for stomping on the Packers doesn’t really matter.

A good example was Kim Kardashian. I had a low opinion of her and her attention whore behavior. But then she used her fame to do something I think is wonderful. She actively pushed for the release of a lady who was sentenced way, way too harshly for something she did at a young age. She left her comfort zone and worked for a cause she believes in. Not that it matters to anyone else but I now have some respect for her and hope she succeeds further for just causes.

This. Thank you. Ray Lewis covered up a murder and I have more respect for him than I do Colin. Ray was in the inner city trying to make a difference with his fame and his money while Kap was crying institutional racism kept me from my 2nd $50 million bonus. I hate Krap partly because I don't believe he was protesting and he is a crybaby who made up a story. He was lucky enough to monetize it.

[bobblehead]

A lot. But off the top of my head, Kap donated his own frogskins to support the causes he's fighting for. And even though he and Reid might disagree with the issue somewhat, their protests eventually caused the NFL to pony up for a "social justice" program.

Kap is still better than a lot of the wankers playing QB in the NFL today. He's good enough to be on an NFL roster. Kap's being blackballed, no doubt. The martyr thing just Stephen A being an ass. Dr. Mobb Deep would concur.

Blackballed is very different from no one wants him because its a zoo/headache they don't need to deal with.

[pbmax]

You're using Packer backup QBs performance vs Rodgers performance to show that talent wins over scheme? Well no shit when there's that much talent discrepancy and the scheme is "Rodgers, go make a play".

Why was it that Kap's effectiveness went down the tubes when SF changed coaches and then schemes from the RPO to pocket? Did his talent suddenly go away? He's best when he's mobile and he's proven that.

You absolutely have to build an offense around your QBs talents. I'm not saying that scheme wins every time, but forcing a player into a scheme he stinks at is only detrimental to the team. The Seahawks' passing offense was hot garbage last year and Carroll realized it and changed his scheme to a run-heavy offense. Went more towards his players' strengths and they turned it around and won more.

I get that scheme can eventually be caught up to (or even fall flat), but to completely dismiss that it has any importance is foolishness.

Scheme doesn't help bad talent. You do not need to compare Rodgers to his backups to know the backups were awful save for Flynn.

Of course you adapt for talent. Its how you win. Its how Philly won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles.

[pbmax]

In my face they are being unfair? Well tough titty said the kitty cuz last I check life isn’t fair and business don’t have to be fair. They just cant discriminate for racial reasons. Last I checked the NFL is beyond diverse. If anything I need to be crying because hey why aren’t there more Hispanics in the NFL? I speak with the knowledge from my own experiences in my life and word from people that live in the town he grew up in. Is that not in your face or you saying I’m lying? Cuz if so we’ll you aren’t better then the NFL, no?

Where is your proof he has faced discrimination? Maybe when he was the starter at Nevada? Or was it when he took over pale ass Alex Smiths job in SF?

Aren’t you Black? Then you know what I’m talking about.:whaa:

He didn't sure about discrimination. He sued about being forced out of the League for no legally defensible reason.

The League paid him a settlement because its singling him out of the League for non-talent reasons. Seems proof enough of discrimination. Not sure if the League cares that he is black, but I'd bet it makes a difference to the public.

Just look at Tony Oday sending him back to his "white Mom and Dad's couch".

[pbmax]

A good example was Kim Kardashian. I had a low opinion of her and her attention whore behavior. But then she used her fame to do something I think is wonderful. She actively pushed for the release of a lady who was sentenced way, way too harshly for something she did at a young age. She left her comfort zone and worked for a cause she believes in. Not that it matters to anyone else but I now have some respect for her and hope she succeeds further for just causes.

So Kaeprnick's donation of money and work for Know Your Rights don't impress?

[pbmax]

This. Thank you. Ray Lewis covered up a murder and I have more respect for him than I do Colin. Ray was in the inner city trying to make a difference with his fame and his money while Kap was crying institutional racism kept me from my 2nd $50 million bonus. I hate Krap partly because I don't believe he was protesting and he is a crybaby who made up a story. He was lucky enough to monetize it.


You seriously have this backward. Ray Lewis' big adventure now is selling bourbon. Or not climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. Ray Lewis is selling more stuff than Stephen A Smith is. Even if Screaming A was pro Kaepernick at some point, that would actually be a point against CK because Smith is an idiot.

Kaepernick has actually donated money and time to charitable causes. He put together a workout himself in two days because a lot of Atlanta came out for him and helped arrange for a facility.

Baltmore put a petition together to take out the Ray Lewis statue when he kneeled.

There is no comparison here that is favorable to Lewis.

[pbmax]

For the most part, NFL teams employ three basic types of backup QBs:

- young players who were drafted for their potential to become starters.
- young players drafted or not who are hard workers and show potential for significant improvement.
- experienced players who are willing to maintain low profiles while supporting and promoting the current starter.

Does Kaepernick fit in any of those categories? I suspect most GMs have concerns.

Most backup QBs are terrible, so current GM stances seemed designed to save money, not find quality. The test for this is that starting quality young QBs tend to start. The longest wait I can think of recently, is one year for Mahomes. Bridgewater might be lone who qualifies under your categories and is good, and he signed for pretty good money.

And no GM since Seattle has talked to him to see what he would be willing to do. Its not the GMs who would work him out. Its the League. The League cannot mind read.

Its why they settled the lawsuit, because they could not make the case that teams did not want him.

But I think this is beside the point. Off the top of my head, he would make Chicago and Carolina playoff quality teams if he had been around.

[pbmax]

Blackballed is very different from no one wants him because its a zoo/headache they don't need to deal with.

I'll give you the media zoo point. But as I said before, Tebow got 2 seasons and a camp despite the zoo. CK got 1.

[pbmax]

This bozo will get another shot before Kaepernick.

Cameron Wolfe @CameronWolfe
Latest on Mark Walton's arrest for aggravated battery of a pregnant woman, his 4th arrest of 2019, and immediate release from the Dolphins:

https://t.co/TRQaZv1JFZ?amp=1

Fourth arrest before he was waived.

[pbmax]

Most backup QBs are terrible, so current GM stances seemed designed to save money, not find quality. The test for this is that starting quality young QBs tend to start. The longest wait I can think of recently, is one year for Mahomes. Bridgewater might be lone who qualifies under your categories and is good, and he signed for pretty good money.

And no GM since Seattle has talked to him to see what he would be willing to do. Its not the GMs who would work him out. Its the League. The League cannot mind read.

Its why they settled the lawsuit, because they could not make the case that teams did not want him.

But I think this is beside the point. Off the top of my head, he would make Chicago and Carolina playoff quality teams if he had been around.

I do agree with Patler on this: teams are probably wary of the uncertainty of his status. Its been two years, what does he expect?

What would a deal with a team like the Packers (well established starter) look like? How much freedom would he need and how quickly since like Teddy H2O, he will be looking elsewhere to start soon?

If he signs to compete (Bears or Panthers or Redskins) does he require minimum starter money to begin with or after the first year?

All good questions for a workout and interview.

[Zool]

Well this thread got fucking stupid in a hurry.

Research topics. The internet is actually pretty easy to navigate.
Riley Cooper racist remarks. He got paid for 3 more years.
Kapernick charitable donations. I’ll just give you this one. https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/31/16390662/colin-kaepernick-1-million-donation-goal-charity

And I can’t believe we still have to bring up Tim Fucking Tebow. He was one of the worst passers in the NFL. Don’t bother being anecdotal about him, actually watch his game footage. Look at his career numbers. How many other 1st round QBs are out of the league after their 3rd year? He sucked in ways Ryan Leaf could only dream. That punter for the Colts was a better passer than Tebow.

Kapernick isn't some hall of fame snub, but worse or as bad as fucking Tebow? That’s just you being stupid for the sake of being stupid.

[call_me_ishmael]

Blackballed is very different from no one wants him because its a zoo/headache they don't need to deal with.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9ddJyWLqbt4/hqdefault.jpg

Is it though? The outcome is the same. I don't really care either way.

[MadtownPacker]

He didn't sure about discrimination. He sued about being forced out of the League for no legally defensible reason.

The League paid him a settlement because its singling him out of the League for non-talent reasons. Seems proof enough of discrimination. Not sure if the League cares that he is black, but I'd bet it makes a difference to the public.

Just look at Tony Oday sending him back to his "white Mom and Dad's couch".CA is a at will employment state. So the NFL didn’t want him working at any of their businesses. Where is the problem? You work at Walmart and start going public against the brand of cigarettes they sell and they let you go. Why would you expect to be hired at a different Walmart? Maybe this example isn’t exactly the same to you but is it really that far off due to the amount of money involved?

The league paid him because they can afford to. Less headache for the rich and powerful. Same as any large company like Disney.

Tony’s point rings with me and further strengthen what I said about if he has faced discrimination. He was loved and raised by a White family was he not? He does not have any gang ties that I have heard of and he grew up 45 min from one of Cali’s most gang infested cities, Stockton. They gave him a good life it seems, one his birth parents did not. I don’t even think he looks Black. More like Punjabi mix. Not that it matters but I have always noticed.

[MadtownPacker]

So Kaeprnick's donation of money and work for Know Your Rights don't impress?No it does not impress me because it helps provide info to get guilty people off along with the innocent. Just more of the narrative IMO.

I agree Ray Lewis is a bad example. As disgusting as Kapernick victim routine is lewis is a bad guy IMO. If he is trying to make up for it then he get credit for that. The other examples of fuckups did it on their own time not at work. They also didn’t turn themselves into a cause. I do think they should be kicked to the curve. Kapernick slashed his own throat by not taken the chances he could have after being let go. If he is talented enough he would have been a starter again by now. Just like many companies you just have to get you foot in the door.

[MadtownPacker]

Well this thread got fucking stupid in a hurry.

Research topics. The internet is actually pretty easy to navigate.
Riley Cooper racist remarks. He got paid for 3 more years.
Kapernick charitable donations. I’ll just give you this one. https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/31/16390662/colin-kaepernick-1-million-donation-goal-charity

And I can’t believe we still have to bring up Tim Fucking Tebow. He was one of the worst passers in the NFL. Don’t bother being anecdotal about him, actually watch his game footage. Look at his career numbers. How many other 1st round QBs are out of the league after their 3rd year? He sucked in ways Ryan Leaf could only dream. That punter for the Colts was a better passer than Tebow.

Kapernick isn't some hall of fame snub, but worse or as bad as fucking Tebow? That’s just you being stupid for the sake of being stupid.
That article says amounts but I didn’t see what charities it went to.

Fuck that mfer cooper.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

This. Thank you. Ray Lewis covered up a murder and I have more respect for him than I do Colin. Ray was in the inner city trying to make a difference with his fame and his money while Kap was crying institutional racism kept me from my 2nd $50 million bonus. I hate Krap partly because I don't believe he was protesting and he is a crybaby who made up a story. He was lucky enough to monetize it.

You and your bigoted ilk are oblivious of the fact that, prior to the protests, Kap was racially profiled by pig five-0’s for sexual assault. Prosecutor threw out the pig’s racist and incompetent investigation.

Add that experience to the many instances of bigoted pigs murdering unarmed citizens unethically, and Kap was gonna protest whether or not he was a starter.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

This bozo will get another shot before Kaepernick.

Cameron Wolfe @CameronWolfe
Latest on Mark Walton's arrest for aggravated battery of a pregnant woman, his 4th arrest of 2019, and immediate release from the Dolphins:

https://t.co/TRQaZv1JFZ?amp=1

Fourth arrest before he was waived.

Fishmonger owners would rather hire rapists, domestic abusers, murderers, drug addicts and drunk drivers than the Champion of the Downtrodden fighting the good fights.

[pbmax]

No it does not impress me because it helps provide info to get guilty people off along with the innocent. Just more of the narrative IMO.


Your rights are your rights, whether you may be guilty or not. I doubt he gets many guilty kids at those events. And most of the talk is cooperation and deescalation.

I'm glad we are of a mind about dodgy Ray Lewis. However, not sure I can forgive admiring Kardashian dabbling as a lawyer. That is celebrity-ing for celebrity-ing sake.

[MadtownPacker]

You and your bigoted ilk are oblivious of the fact that, prior to the protests, Kap was racially profiled by pig five-0’s for sexual assault. Prosecutor threw out the pig’s racist and incompetent investigation.

Add that experience to the many instances of bigoted pigs murdering unarmed citizens unethically, and Kap was gonna protest whether or not he was a starter.Did you ever actually read what went down with that? He was never charged pendejo! The woman called the cops and cried rape. They responded, rape kit was done, found her story to be a lie. kapernicks lawyer straight up said kapernick had previously sex with the gold digger a few times then dump her sorry ass. I’m glad you brought it up because in this instance “I’m with kap!”. He was the victim and I bet learned a lesson to be more careful when it comes to skanks.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/49ers/2014/06/12/colin-kaepernick-miami-no-sexual-assault-charges-san-francisco/10373525/

Pretty much she went psycho and made shit up.

Just like your post. Except you did just get your ass torn by me! Again there is no DNA so please don’t try to have me charged. :lol:

[MadtownPacker]

Your rights are your rights, whether you may be guilty or not. I doubt he gets many guilty kids at those events. And most of the talk is cooperation and deescalation.

I'm glad we are of a mind about dodgy Ray Lewis. However, not sure I can forgive admiring Kardashian dabbling as a lawyer. That is celebrity-ing for celebrity-ing sake.I visited the site before and didn’t find much. Looked again. Not much new.

I did find the charities he donated to. Some good ones for sure. The dollar amount is not a million though. Maybe it just has a few examples. The site does have a lot of Nike and kapernick promotion.

OUR 10-POINT SYSTEM
1. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE FREE.
2. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HEALTHY.
3. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE BRILLIANT.
4. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE SAFE.
5. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE LOVED.
6. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE COURAGEOUS.
7. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ALIVE.
8. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE TRUSTED.
9. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE EDUCATED.
10. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.

It is positive from a motivational perspective but I couldn’t find anything that would have actually helped in a recent serious situation I had. For example the right to record all interactions with law enforcement. Something I was denied and I looked up afterwards.
https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/right-record-police-doesnt-disappear-when-you-put-your-phone-your-pocket

I know you don’t mess with FYI but please read post 2323 on this thread.
http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?28671-Bearing-Arms/page117

Read this and then tell me what you think I know about discrimination. This is a recent example but I have more if not good enough.

[MadtownPacker]

PB are you are letting your personal opinion of kardashian cloud your judgement? In this thread you have aimed that same comment at those not with kap. Yeah maybe she isn’t lawyer material but she did a good thing. Used that celeb status to help someone and I think she keeps trying for others. I am surprised you don’t see it that way.

[pbmax]

PB are you are letting your personal opinion of kardashian cloud your judgement? In this thread you have aimed that same comment at those not with kap. Yeah maybe she isn’t lawyer material but she did a good thing. Used that celeb status to help someone and I think she keeps trying for others. I am surprised you don’t see it that way.

Mostly I was joking. But CK put up some cash and time. I am not aware that Kim has done either except to publicize. If I am wrong and am simply not aware of her efforts, that is on me.

But CK did not announce he was going to attend law school while kneeling and protesting lethal force.

[MadtownPacker]

Mostly I was joking. But CK put up some cash and time. I am not aware that Kim has done either except to publicize. If I am wrong and am simply not aware of her efforts, that is on me.

But CK did not announce he was going to attend law school while kneeling and protesting lethal force.Don’t skip my request por favor!

I see it the opposite. kardashian used her brand to make it happen. I believe she was actually bashed by her fan base for going to the White House to get it done. She didn’t get huge Nike billboards in a bunch of big cities promoting her sponsors. I see kapernick using all this to make a brand for himself. He did put up some cash. That is a good deed IMO. Pretty sure he has time to spare right now :lol:.

Let the record show I have never seen an episode of her show. I did see a video of her once. :bclap:

[Zool]

I'll clarify my stance. Kap is a douche, but he supposedly lives in a country where you can freely speak your mind without persecution. If you think his stance on police brutality has nothing to do with his lack of employment, I don't even know what to say. The Packers once had Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace as QBs after they jettisoned Graham Harrell.

Kap can play. I don't know all the QB2 situations around the NFL, but he's played in a SB. Hell Joe Flacco still got another starting job in Denver. He's on that level. You don't want him as a long-term starter, but could be a good fill-in for a couple games.

Joe Webb started a playoff game at QB, but Kap isn't good enough? This all comes without knowing what he would want as a contract.

[bobblehead]

You seriously have this backward. Ray Lewis' big adventure now is selling bourbon. Or not climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. Ray Lewis is selling more stuff than Stephen A Smith is. Even if Screaming A was pro Kaepernick at some point, that would actually be a point against CK because Smith is an idiot.

Kaepernick has actually donated money and time to charitable causes. He put together a workout himself in two days because a lot of Atlanta came out for him and helped arrange for a facility.

Baltmore put a petition together to take out the Ray Lewis statue when he kneeled.

There is no comparison here that is favorable to Lewis.

Its all about the timeline. Kap started being active AFTER he saw the benefit of it. Lewis was very active throughout his career and now he is monetizing later. Don't misunderstand me, making a buck is great. Sell that hooch. Sell sneakers, I don't care. It's the false caring for inner city youth that bugs me. He cared as much for the black community as OJ did....and it coincided when they both suddenly needed to be victims.

[bobblehead]

Well this thread got fucking stupid in a hurry.

Research topics. The internet is actually pretty easy to navigate.
Riley Cooper racist remarks. He got paid for 3 more years.
Kapernick charitable donations. I’ll just give you this one. https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/31/16390662/colin-kaepernick-1-million-donation-goal-charity

And I can’t believe we still have to bring up Tim Fucking Tebow. He was one of the worst passers in the NFL. Don’t bother being anecdotal about him, actually watch his game footage. Look at his career numbers. How many other 1st round QBs are out of the league after their 3rd year? He sucked in ways Ryan Leaf could only dream. That punter for the Colts was a better passer than Tebow.

Kapernick isn't some hall of fame snub, but worse or as bad as fucking Tebow? That’s just you being stupid for the sake of being stupid.
Did I say Tebow was better than Colin? Don't recall and don't feel like scrolling thru. My comparison was that both are backup QB talent. If I said Tebow was better shame on me. If I didn't shame on u for calling me stupid when that would reside with the illiterate.

[bobblehead]

You and your bigoted ilk are oblivious of the fact that, prior to the protests, Kap was racially profiled by pig five-0’s for sexual assault. Prosecutor threw out the pig’s racist and incompetent investigation.

Add that experience to the many instances of bigoted pigs murdering unarmed citizens unethically, and Kap was gonna protest whether or not he was a starter.

I'm bigoted? Fuck u asshole. Ur a moron, but ur posts entertain me at times. Ur personal attack would get u punched in the face if u said to me in person. Again, fuck off. Kiss my ass. U know nothing about me. This kind of crap is why KY and others have no use for u. Say it to my face someday and see what happens.

[bobblehead]

I'll clarify my stance. Kap is a douche, but he supposedly lives in a country where you can freely speak your mind without persecution. If you think his stance on police brutality has nothing to do with his lack of employment, I don't even know what to say. The Packers once had Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace as QBs after they jettisoned Graham Harrell.

Kap can play. I don't know all the QB2 situations around the NFL, but he's played in a SB. Hell Joe Flacco still got another starting job in Denver. He's on that level. You don't want him as a long-term starter, but could be a good fill-in for a couple games.

Joe Webb started a playoff game at QB, but Kap isn't good enough? This all comes without knowing what he would want as a contract.

He can have his opinion. He can scream it from the rooftop. Hecant make the NFL give him a platform. They don't have to employ him. They also have rights.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I'm bigoted? Fuck u asshole. Ur a moron, but ur posts entertain me at times. Ur personal attack would get u punched in the face if u said to me in person. Again, fuck off. Kiss my ass. U know nothing about me. This kind of crap is why KY and others have no use for u. Say it to my face someday and see what happens.

It's a figure of speech, punk. Madtown doesn't want FYI in this thread. (Political comments removed)

Know what, wherever the fuck is Maxi the Taxi, fuck him for calling me and my ilk "contemptible."

[George Cumby]

I'll clarify my stance. Kap is a douche, but he supposedly lives in a country where you can freely speak your mind without persecution. If you think his stance on police brutality has nothing to do with his lack of employment, I don't even know what to say. The Packers once had Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace as QBs after they jettisoned Graham Harrell.

Kap can play. I don't know all the QB2 situations around the NFL, but he's played in a SB. Hell Joe Flacco still got another starting job in Denver. He's on that level. You don't want him as a long-term starter, but could be a good fill-in for a couple games.

Joe Webb started a playoff game at QB, but Kap isn't good enough? This all comes without knowing what he would want as a contract.

This, pretty much.

Although, I am still of the opinion that this whole thing MAY have started as Kaep throwing a temper tantrum for being benched and then, as history has taught us, events unfolded in unforeseen ways, spinning out of control of the principals.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Did you ever actually read what went down with that? He was never charged pendejo! The woman called the cops and cried rape. They responded, rape kit was done, found her story to be a lie. kapernicks lawyer straight up said kapernick had previously sex with the gold digger a few times then dump her sorry ass. I’m glad you brought it up because in this instance “I’m with kap!”. He was the victim and I bet learned a lesson to be more careful when it comes to skanks.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/49ers/2014/06/12/colin-kaepernick-miami-no-sexual-assault-charges-san-francisco/10373525/

Pretty much she went psycho and made shit up.

Just like your post. Except you did just get your ass torn by me! Again there is no DNA so please don’t try to have me charged. :lol:

Pretty sure I read somewhere about Kap being pissed at the pigs for treating him like a rapist while they invistigated the Miami incident. Started wearing pig socks in training camp prior to the protests. Am I delusional?

[MadtownPacker]

This, pretty much.

Although, I am still of the opinion that this whole thing MAY have started as Kaep throwing a temper tantrum for being benched and then, as history has taught us, events unfolded in unforeseen ways, spinning out of control of the principals.That’s why I don’t believe this is about the cause and instead the cause is being used selfishly. PB and others have mentioned the playoff wins and almost winning the SuperBowl. He had the largest stage in the world with a whole week dedicated to the media. I don’t remember a single squeak from him about any causes or charities. Less the a year later the Michael Brown shooting happened, still nothing. Not until 2016 (he was sitting not kneeling which really gave the tantrum appearance) did this start. Think the media set it off by asking we he was sitting. From there is steamrolled.

[MadtownPacker]

I'm bigoted? Fuck u asshole. Ur a moron, but ur posts entertain me at times. Ur personal attack would get u punched in the face if u said to me in person. Again, fuck off. Kiss my ass. U know nothing about me. This kind of crap is why KY and others have no use for u. Say it to my face someday and see what happens.Proof we really need to have another PackerRats Poster game get together. :lol:

[Zool]

Proof we really need to have another PackerRats Poster game get together. :lol:

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4b/4bb2d5c2cc20cfa5d153900f2580756c8592f79ea1b7480513 a709ddfab77904.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

Cmon Zoolio, that guy is only an orange belt. Bobble is at least a green or blue.

[pbmax]

Its all about the timeline. Kap started being active AFTER he saw the benefit of it. Lewis was very active throughout his career and now he is monetizing later. Don't misunderstand me, making a buck is great. Sell that hooch. Sell sneakers, I don't care. It's the false caring for inner city youth that bugs me. He cared as much for the black community as OJ did....and it coincided when they both suddenly needed to be victims.

I'd like a timeline of Lewis being active. That wasn't his MO.

Pretty sure there was a newsworthy event or two that happened prior to the season that seems a likelier launch point for Kap rather than seeing the benefit of not playing.

He redid his contract to get an opt out when he won the starting job back from Yo Gabbert Gabbert as he and the team could not agree to a contract extension the year before. He obviously expected to get paid that offseason. And that is when he was frozen out.

[pbmax]

That’s why I don’t believe this is about the cause and instead the cause is being used selfishly. PB and others have mentioned the playoff wins and almost winning the SuperBowl. He had the largest stage in the world with a whole week dedicated to the media. I don’t remember a single squeak from him about any causes or charities. Less the a year later the Michael Brown shooting happened, still nothing. Not until 2016 (he was sitting not kneeling which really gave the tantrum appearance) did this start. Think the media set it off by asking we he was sitting. From there is steamrolled.

No one noticed he was sitting for 2 or 3 games. That's how big a deal it was.

He played in the Super Bowl in 2012. What could have changed the man's perspective between then and 2017? Hmmm.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Thinking_Face_Emoji-Emoji-Island-300x300.png

[MadtownPacker]

No one noticed he was sitting for 2 or 3 games. That's how big a deal it was.

He played in the Super Bowl in 2012. What could have changed the man's perspective between then and 2017? Hmmm.

Why didn't he protest after the Brown shooting because everyone else that cared did. He was the hotshot QB at the time (funny how thing were looking great for him career wise). Had he did it then I would view him complete opposite of what I do now.

It happened around the 2014 NFL preseason so he had plenty of chances but he wait until 2016 to protest? Hmmm, indeed. Seems he didn't care enough at that time.

SB XLVII was Feb 2013 not 2012. Was for the 2012 season.

BLM founded - July 2013

Brown shooting - Aug 2014

Benched around Nov 2015

kappy started "protesting"/crying - 2016 preseason

To him I say in the words of Lil Wayne, what da fuk bro?

You also haven't responded to my other post directed at you. Talking about the one asking you to read a post I made in FYI since you think I don't know about discrimination. Also to tell me about how the discrimination you have faced being Black. I really do want to know. Unless you are White, which there is also discrimination happening against also.

[George Cumby]

Nice summary, Mad.

[Radagast]

Brown who?

Discrimination is not restricted to just one race/group. Some believe that their lack of success is directly related to discrimination, however in reality it is directly proportional to the amount of effort put forth. All, and I do mean All success is earned through hard work and perseverance. Yes, there are those lucky few that inherit wealth, but their family wealth was earned as well by their elders.

Some say their is a color barrier to wealth, but that is very wrong. Success is no longer restricted to any race. Athletes, entrepreneurs, and those with special skills attain wealth. They went out and applied themselves, instead of applying for social services. How else could a man from Costa Rica or Liberia or the Philippines come to the USA and become wealthy. Through hard work, dedication, and a little luck any man in America can raise their standard of living.

Some say that America's prisons are too full of minorities. The truth is that anyone in a prison was convicted of breaking the laws that most of us do not break. If one or more minorities represent the greater majority of those in prisons, then in my opinion the bad behavior began long before their criminal activities. The home/community environment bears a large share of blame for their bad behavior. That environment can be found in all races, regions, and is to be found in both rural and city surroundings. It's those that do not bend to pier pressure, do well in school, and apply themselves that succeed in spite of the culture around them.

Long ago, I graduated from my High School with two people that went on to high success in their lives. I grew to know both while still in school as both were in the school band as I was. What made them special was that both graduated with perfect 4.0 scholastic averages. Both received full college scholarships. One attended a local University while the other attended an out of state University. Years later one became the news anchor on a local TV station as the other was on his way to being a highly respected Professor of Archaeology at a well known New England University. Both came from poor families, applied themselves, and became examples for all to admire. The news anchor was a black girl and was always friendly to all she ever met. The University Professor was a white boy and just as friendly. Neither had any family wealth or important people to ease their paths, both attained their success by their hard work.

I never attained such success myself, but I live a fairly comfortable retired life. My point is that if you believe that you are restricted by race from succeeding, then you probably are. It's those that rise above such things and apply themselves that succeed. Going from that community where drugs are sold on the corner to living in a better area in a fine house/driving a fine car/and taking those once only dreamed of vacations can only come with hard work. No one is going to walk up and just hand it to anyone else.


I don't look to see Kaepernick in the NFL ever again. No team will wan't such a distraction disrupting their team's. One day he may show up with a college program as a coach or on a CFL team, but I see him becoming more of a memory than a relevant athletic/social celebrity.With his wealth he could succeed in other ventures as an entrepreneur.

[Patler]

He redid his contract to get an opt out when he won the starting job back from Yo Gabbert Gabbert as he and the team could not agree to a contract extension the year before. He obviously expected to get paid that offseason. And that is when he was frozen out.

I don't follow this. He signed a 6 year $125 million contract two years before he renegotiated it for an opt out clause, which SF was happy to give him because they realized they grossly overpaid him. On CK's part, he knew he wasn't solidly their long range plan any longer.

[pbmax]

Why didn't he protest after the Brown shooting because everyone else that cared did. He was the hotshot QB at the time (funny how thing were looking great for him career wise). Had he did it then I would view him complete opposite of what I do now.

It happened around the 2014 NFL preseason so he had plenty of chances but he wait until 2016 to protest? Hmmm, indeed. Seems he didn't care enough at that time.

SB XLVII was Feb 2013 not 2012. Was for the 2012 season.

BLM founded - July 2013

Brown shooting - Aug 2014

Benched around Nov 2015

kappy started "protesting"/crying - 2016 preseason

To him I say in the words of Lil Wayne, what da fuk bro?

You also haven't responded to my other post directed at you. Talking about the one asking you to read a post I made in FYI since you think I don't know about discrimination. Also to tell me about how the discrimination you have faced being Black. I really do want to know. Unless you are White, which there is also discrimination happening against also.

Glad we agree that a protest during the 2012 season Super Bowl (Feb 2013) would have been in anticipation of all those other events. That would have been quite a feat. How many football players were protesting the Brown incident on the field?

Also odd there were no more shootings after 2014 to get mad about. Philando Castile comes to mind but perhaps I am just confused. (July 6, 2016)

Why would we get to pick when he got motivated to protest? Why is there an expiration date on his protest and no one else?

If Kaepernick simply wanted to get paid, he doesn't renegotiate that contract.

As for your other post, I have not read it yet and will not get the chance to until this weekend. But I am perplexed. I have never stated nor do I think I intimated that you do not know discrimination. I would have nothing to base that claim on. My disagreement is with your dismissal of Kaepernick as insincere in his protest and therefore unworthy of an argument to get him back into the game.

[pbmax]

I don't follow this. He signed a 6 year $125 million contract two years before he renegotiated it for an opt out clause, which SF was happy to give him because they realized they grossly overpaid him. On CK's part, he knew he wasn't solidly their long range plan any longer.

ESPN says he renegotiated that deal mid-season 2016 to get the opt out. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18796373/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-opts-contract.

They had been trying to redo the deal since the trade talks with the Broncos. Kap had shoulder surgery in the offseason and was limited in camp and preseason. The 49ers may have been worried about his play, but they might also have been worried about those guarantees should he get injured again. This article mentions that Griffin sat with Washington for similar reasons.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17781311/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-agree-restructure-deal

[MadtownPacker]

Assumes fact not in evidence.

When you have to resort to mind-reading to make the case, the case is weak.


My disagreement is with your dismissal of Kaepernick as insincere in his protest and therefore unworthy of an argument to get him back into the game.Took me a lot of typing but I finally got you with your own words. :lol:

Just as I assume he is insincere based on his actions you assume he is sincere based on his actions. None of us have proof just mind-reading what we believe is going on in that afro. I will call it a draw because reality is I never expected to change anyone’s mind just as I will not change mine. Because all we have is speculation. It has been fun and I enjoyed putting thought into my post instead of just blasting away like normal.

One thing that you can consider fact is that I respect you and don’t want to end up on your shit list. I’m on enough of them already. :lol:

[Fritz]

So you can be a wife beater and maybe even a murdere and play in the NFL, but you can't kneel during the national anthem?

The NFL cares, man. They really care.

[pbmax]

Took me a lot of typing but I finally got you with your own words. :lol:

Just as I assume he is insincere based on his actions you assume he is sincere based on his actions. None of us have proof just mind-reading what we believe is going on in that afro. I will call it a draw because reality is I never expected to change anyone’s mind just as I will not change mine. Because all we have is speculation. It has been fun and I enjoyed putting thought into my post instead of just blasting away like normal.

One thing that you can consider fact is that I respect you and don’t want to end up on your shit list. I’m on enough of them already. :lol:

I do not claim to know his sincerity level. I *think* he is sincere, but I cannot prove it.

Regardless, he deserves a spot in the League. A lot of people worse than hypocrites are getting paid to play professional football.

[pbmax]

So you can be a wife beater and maybe even a murdere and play in the NFL, but you can't kneel during the national anthem?

The NFL cares, man. They really care.

4 strikes and you are out on your ear buddy.

Just stay by the phone and try not to get into any trouble, OK? Here's $20. Buy yourself something nice.

[3irty1]

I'm of the opinion that there are no good guys in this story.

Kap was a douche and headcase, but he was also a millionaire in his 20's. I don't think he's a charlatan (yet) but neither is he acting out of altruism. On balance he's profiting from this. I also think he's done more harm than good to the legitimate cause of police accountability by making it so effortless to equate it with broader anti-American disaffection.

The NFL can't do anything right. They're censorious and can never escape the optics of having only the most mercenary loyalties. I don't know if Kap actually wants to play or not because its clear he doesn't trust these opportunities. The bad faith from both sides at this point is too much to overcome. They should have just left him alone to kneel and let the boomers rant on facebook about it. It was the right thing to do and he probably would have gone away faster to boot. Am I the only one who gets a chuckle out of the "Property of US Gov" sideline apparel this year? Just no self-awareness at all from these shills.

[Tony Oday]

APB You haven't called me a racist in a while. Must be losing your Lib Card.

I would rather have Hundley than CK.

[call_me_ishmael]

I would rather have Hundley than CK.

Okay now that is just stupid.

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't follow this. He signed a 6 year $125 million contract two years before he renegotiated it for an opt out clause, which SF was happy to give him because they realized they grossly overpaid him. On CK's part, he knew he wasn't solidly their long range plan any longer.

This is a really strange thing too. Why did he negotiate the opt-out when it was commonly accepted he was overpaid and would be let go? Mistake on his part.

[pbmax]

This is a really strange thing too. Why did he negotiate the opt-out when it was commonly accepted he was overpaid and would be let go? Mistake on his part.

Parts of those future salaries were guaranteed. One of those articles I linked to puts the number at $17 million that he gave up to get the opt out. Would have been expensive to just let him go without the renegotiation. That part is known.

Less understood is whether they were being cautious with him returning from surgery (did not play until 3rd preseason game) or avoiding the risk of re-injury so that there was a chance they could escape the guarantees. That part would make anyone salty, but no one inside has made the case explicitly. Essentially they would refuse to play him despite bing healthy to force his hand. Would help explain the eagerness to leave.

[call_me_ishmael]

Man if I could get 8 figures per year to play or 8 figures per year to not play, I'd rather not play. These cats are wired differently, though.

[ThunderDan]

CA is a at will employment state. So the NFL didn’t want him working at any of their businesses. Where is the problem? You work at Walmart and start going public against the brand of cigarettes they sell and they let you go. Why would you expect to be hired at a different Walmart? Maybe this example isn’t exactly the same to you but is it really that far off due to the amount of money involved?


Sorry, the NFL is carved out from the At Will employment clauses.

I thought this was a good discussion until the personal insults started flying.

This whole thing smelled fishy to me from the get go and still smells fishy today.

[ThunderDan]

I believe that Kap is good enough to be in the NFL. I believe that most NFL teams don't want to deal with the distraction but teams have put up with a lot of shit in the past.

[George Cumby]

Regardless of his motives, he'd probably be more effective than the bottom quarter of the league's starters.

The NFL's hypocrisy, as Fritz has pointed out, is ridiculous:

Violent girlfriend/wife/child beaters = ok Spoiled athlete who has kicked a hornet's nest with a temper tantrum that was backward engineered into a social protest = not ok.

If he's capable, let him play and tell him to stay in the locker room during the anthem, if he isn't don't give him a contract.

[Bretsky]

If I have a bottom quarter of the league starter, the guy better be drama/distraction free with a great attitude. And I'm also hoping he's young with upside. I would pass on Kapernick. Every decision we make in life can have some effects. Maybe I'm a cold f'ck but he made his bed.

[Guiness]

I do not claim to know his sincerity level. I *think* he is sincere, but I cannot prove it.

Regardless, he deserves a spot in the League. A lot of people worse than hypocrites are getting paid to play professional football.

This sums up a lot of the way I feel - I tend to think he had some level of sincerity because he stuck his neck out on a big stage, to his own detriment. I guess the counter argument could be that he was an attention whore. One way or the other, a lot of people got their knickers in a knot over what he did. And the crew who likes to throw around the word 'snowflakes' acted like a bunch themselves. They also dragged the military into it, much to their surprise I'm sure.

On the talent side, I think he could play. He might not have been as elite as the Pack's defense made him look, but saying he's out of the league for skill reasons is just being purposely obtuse. Concerns about attitude I could believe...if anyone had bothered to bring him in and talk. No GM has, so they have as much idea of his sincerity as we do.

[pbmax]

If I have a bottom quarter of the league starter, the guy better be drama/distraction free with a great attitude. And I'm also hoping he's young with upside. I would pass on Kapernick. Every decision we make in life can have some effects. Maybe I'm a cold f'ck but he made his bed.

Welcome to mediocrity. Where is the NFL your net worth increases even if you are a poor business man AND you lose a lot of games.

[pbmax]

Sorry, the NFL is carved out from the At Will employment clauses.

I thought this was a good discussion until the personal insults started flying.

This whole thing smelled fishy to me from the get go and still smells fishy today.

The other problem with pointing to state laws is that they don't apply to the majority of the franchises even if they held.

[pbmax]

And stupidity proves to rule the day again.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/21/colin-kaepernick-case-brings-tryout-waivers-into-focus/



It also has become obvious that different teams use different waivers. Most recently, Howard Bryant of ESPN posted the waiver used by the Bears.

In attempting to obtain these waivers, another dynamic has become obvious: The players typically sign the waivers and proceed, without even informing their agents that they were asked to sign a document limiting their legal rights.

Multiple agents told PFT this week that they weren’t even aware of the practice of players signing tryout waivers. They are now, and it raises important questions regarding the language that could be snuck into the waivers — and whether an effort should be undertaken to standardize the waivers with preapproved language that all teams use.