Putting The Blame Where It Belongs

[Packnut]

I was afraid to spend my usual few hours this a.m. surfing all the Packer sites for fear of reading some of the same stuff that has been here. I was terrified to think I was gonna read all the excuses about giving TT time and the young players need to grow and the rest of all that garbage.

However, the Packer world seem's to be united in putting the blame where it belongs-right on TT's head. Where as before, I was worried TT's window of opportunity was huge, I now can see it shrinking.

For those of you who continue to keep the blinders on, I would offer you up these points to consider. I realize not everyone has the Sunday ticket plan and you have nothing to compare our team to but I watched parts of every game. As an organization, I would say the Lions have been equally inept as we have been, yet yesterday I saw a team filled with heart and desire. They gave the Seahawks everything they could handle and their run D was amazing. Yet they basically have the same players as last season. They would be a dangerous team if they had a QB. A coach can make a difference.

Now let's look at the Saints offensive scheme. Very impressive to say the least. Take away Bush and talent wise our offense should be better than theirs, yet the play-calling made Brees look good. They ran out of a myriad of different formations with motion. They attacked and were aggressive.

These are only a few examples and believe me I could give many more. Would anyone really dispute the inept playcalling we saw yesterday. MM's offensive game-plan makes Sherman look like Bill Walsh. Was there any imagination what-so-ever?

Now some of you have stated I'm over-reacting and the team need's time to grow. Well, Poppinga let one of the worst TE's in football rip him a new one. Now do you think that is magically gonna change? He's gonna see a lot better TE's down the line and it's obvious to everyone except our coaching staff that he can't cover. Speaking of not covering, our secondary was toasted by one of the most inept offenses around. Do any of you see that changing with much better offenses coming in down the road?

There are so many more specific examples I can give but it would be re-dundant. We have problems that time and "growing" are not gonna fix. We are so far behind the rest of the league scheme wise on both sides of the ball that it's down-right laughable.

I feel much better today cause I honestly believe TT won't be here after next season. The great majority of the Packer fan base see's the obvious that we have the most inept GM in the league. The heat on the Packer board of dir. is already forming. After the Saints beat us next week, I think many of the TT's backers are gonna stop and realize that just may-be their support of TT is a huge mistake. Together we can make a difference. It's not hopeless my friends. Scream loud enough and someone will hear!

[jack's smirking revenge]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'll wait until the end of next year to judge Thompson. Yes, the end of next year. You have to give a GM three years to evaluate them. By then, all of these young guys will be hitting their stride, and we'll see what the team looks like.

BTW, Cleveland's defense vs. Chicago's defense = HUGE difference

[Rastak]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

Shermistakes....LOL....you should patent that Jack.

[ZachMN]

I agree, there seems to be nothing but confusion on the field- It looked like the Packers had never played together yesterday. I have felt that the scouting needs to be blown up because every other team seems to find guys who out hustle, out jump, just flat out care more. We seem to get the leftovers or those who "might" be something. Its just me venting but this has gone on for a few years. We seem to be lethargic every time I watch a game.


The only guy on the Packers with any heart left is Donald Driver. We need 52 other guys that play like him.

[Scott Campbell]

That kind of loss is bound to bring out all the "Fire Thompson" threads. It just comes witht the territory. As a matter of fact, I think I'd like to punch him myself this morning.

[Patler]

Personally, considering the competition, I think the Packers looked better yesterday against the bears than they did in the opener last year against the Lions.

[Packnut]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

This belief that we will get better is unfounded. I would ask how? Let's take the specific examle of Poppinga. He was DESTROYED by what everyone considers to be a weak TE. How is that gonna get better? I think it was obvious to anyone watching that Manuel is'nt a starter. He's just not talented enough. How is that gonna change? Clearly Al's better days are behind him and Woodson is laughing all the way to the bank. Now any reasonable coaching staff would see we don't have the talent to man up and devise a zone scheme better to fit our players.

I wish I could see where the improvment will come from. We've all seen enough of Rodgers to know that while he might turn into an above avg. QB, he is'nt gonna be a great one. He will need plenty of talent and where will it come from? You have to be able to look down the road.

[Packnut]

I agree, there seems to be nothing but confusion on the field- It looked like the Packers had never played together yesterday. I have felt that the scouting needs to be blown up because every other team seems to find guys who out hustle, out jump, just flat out care more. We seem to get the leftovers or those who "might" be something. Its just me venting but this has gone on for a few years. We seem to be lethargic every time I watch a game.


The only guy on the Packers with any heart left is Donald Driver. We need 52 other guys that play like him.

You would think that a great deal of our gameplan would have been built around DD now would'nt ya? Sadly our best player is nothing but an after-thought to MM.

[Packnut]

That kind of loss is bound to bring out all the "Fire Thompson" threads. It just comes witht the territory. As a matter of fact, I think I'd like to punch him myself this morning.


This loss has little to do with it. This is about all the player mistakes he has made. This is about bringing in Manuel and Woodson and the money spent on them. This is about bringing in a HC that most everyone agrees is in over his head. This is about totally ignoring our offensive line need's and that mistake was made LAST YEAR. This is about Gado and Herron returning kicks and being Green's back-up when they would'nt make anyone else's roster. This is about bringing in 2 untried kickers and hoping that experience will make them better. These are just a few examples and there are several more. No, this is'nt about yesterday. this is about a GM who has made SEVERAL mistakes. This is about a GM who does'nt have the brains or ability to run the team we all love.........

[jack's smirking revenge]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

This belief that we will get better is unfounded. I would ask how? Let's take the specific examle of Poppinga. He was DESTROYED by what everyone considers to be a weak TE. How is that gonna get better? I think it was obvious to anyone watching that Manuel is'nt a starter. He's just not talented enough. How is that gonna change? Clearly Al's better days are behind him and Woodson is laughing all the way to the bank. Now any reasonable coaching staff would see we don't have the talent to man up and devise a zone scheme better to fit our players.

I wish I could see where the improvment will come from. We've all seen enough of Rodgers to know that while he might turn into an above avg. QB, he is'nt gonna be a great one. He will need plenty of talent and where will it come from? You have to be able to look down the road.

Hey, I'm trying out a new thing--it's called "optimism". I'm not suggesting that you try it too, because optimism clearly isn't for everyone. And maybe I'm just being delusional with my statement that "we're going to get better". Perhaps, a more accurate way of stating it is "we are going to LOOK better". Like you Packernut, I see problems all over the place. We lack depth in so many areas....O-line, D-line, secondary (I'm really worried about this one, especially after making Grossman look like the 2nd coming of Montana), WR corps, RB corps, just to name a few....that I have to hope that some of our players will evolve into talent, instead of remaining "potentials".

Here's where I am founded in my comment: every single player that makes a starting team in the NFL is a "professional". Thus, they have shown the talent and the ability to play the game at a high level. They're not morons and they're not laypeople like you and I. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they can learn and evolve. The curve is better the younger the player is. With Woodson and Harris, evolution is probably out of the question since they're past the bell curve of their prime. They're like old dogs that can't learn new tricks and stick to what they know best. The key is getting the young players on the team to evolve faster, if there truly is skill to unlock.

Honestly, I think Spitz, Colledge and Moll will be good lineman. It'll take some time, but I think they'll get there. I think Collins, Blackmon and Culver can probably be/continue to be quality starters with experience. I think our LB corps is solid and will continue to get better. Our TEs showed some flashes yesterday and so did Jennings, though he got frustrated by drops in a blowout.

My center: 2007. The evolution of players this year will lead to a much more successful one next. Too many "young" pieces in this picture--young coaching staff, young schemes, young players....

tyler

[Packnut]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

This belief that we will get better is unfounded. I would ask how? Let's take the specific examle of Poppinga. He was DESTROYED by what everyone considers to be a weak TE. How is that gonna get better? I think it was obvious to anyone watching that Manuel is'nt a starter. He's just not talented enough. How is that gonna change? Clearly Al's better days are behind him and Woodson is laughing all the way to the bank. Now any reasonable coaching staff would see we don't have the talent to man up and devise a zone scheme better to fit our players.

I wish I could see where the improvment will come from. We've all seen enough of Rodgers to know that while he might turn into an above avg. QB, he is'nt gonna be a great one. He will need plenty of talent and where will it come from? You have to be able to look down the road.

Hey, I'm trying out a new thing--it's called "optimism". I'm not suggesting that you try it too, because optimism clearly isn't for everyone. And maybe I'm just being delusional with my statement that "we're going to get better". Perhaps, a more accurate way of stating it is "we are going to LOOK better". Like you Packernut, I see problems all over the place. We lack depth in so many areas....O-line, D-line, secondary (I'm really worried about this one, especially after making Grossman look like the 2nd coming of Montana), WR corps, RB corps, just to name a few....that I have to hope that some of our players will evolve into talent, instead of remaining "potentials".

Here's where I am founded in my comment: every single player that makes a starting team in the NFL is a "professional". Thus, they have shown the talent and the ability to play the game at a high level. They're not morons and they're not laypeople like you and I. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they can learn and evolve. The curve is better the younger the player is. With Woodson and Harris, evolution is probably out of the question since they're past the bell curve of their prime. They're like old dogs that can't learn new tricks and stick to what they know best. The key is getting the young players on the team to evolve faster, if there truly is skill to unlock.

Honestly, I think Spitz, Colledge and Moll will be good lineman. It'll take some time, but I think they'll get there. I think Collins, Blackmon and Culver can probably be/continue to be quality starters with experience. I think our LB corps is solid and will continue to get better. Our TEs showed some flashes yesterday and so did Jennings, though he got frustrated by drops in a blowout.

My center: 2007. The evolution of players this year will lead to a much more successful one next. Too many "young" pieces in this picture--young coaching staff, young schemes, young players....

tyler

I respect your opinion and admire you optimism.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

Shermistakes....LOL....you should patent that Jack.

Thanks Rastak! I'll work on it. :D

tyler

[RashanGary]

I think Harvy's time table is realistic. The end of next year, we should have a good idea of what we have and where we are going.

Right now says nothing. NE had off years. Pittsburgh has had off years. Every team does. People freaking out and calling the GM incompitent after 1 or even 2 down years completely lack understanding of the NFL as a whole combined with negative effect that 4 consecutive horrible drafts has on an organization. Sherman killed the Packers. Now how long will it take to rebuild? 1 or 2 years isn't enough to cover for 4 players who succeeded out of 4 entire years worth of draft picks.

[Packnut]

I think Harvy's time table is realistic. The end of next year, we should have a good idea of what we have and where we are going.

Right now says nothing. NE had off years. Pittsburgh has had off years. Every team does. People freaking out and calling the GM incompitent after 1 or even 2 down years completely lack understanding of the NFL as a whole combined with negative effect that 4 consecutive horrible drafts has on an organization. Sherman killed the Packers. Now how long will it take to rebuild? 1 or 2 years isn't enough to cover for 4 players who succeeded out of 4 entire years worth of draft picks.

People who continue using Sherman's failures as an excuse for the mistakes TT has made also have no understanding of the NFL.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I respect your opinion and admire you optimism.

Packnut you don't know what the f@ck you're talk.....Huh? What? You don't want to drag this out and argue and debate? Nice response. Not what I was expecting at all.

:lol:

I'm as broken as you are about yesterday, but part of me has already given in for 2006. If we get trounced by the best team in our division and our arch-rivals in embarrassing fashion, we can't really expect the ultimate prize in 2006, can we?

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

I think Harvy's time table is realistic. The end of next year, we should have a good idea of what we have and where we are going.

Right now says nothing. NE had off years. Pittsburgh has had off years. Every team does. People freaking out and calling the GM incompitent after 1 or even 2 down years completely lack understanding of the NFL as a whole combined with negative effect that 4 consecutive horrible drafts has on an organization. Sherman killed the Packers. Now how long will it take to rebuild? 1 or 2 years isn't enough to cover for 4 players who succeeded out of 4 entire years worth of draft picks.

People who continue using Sherman's failures as an excuse for the mistakes TT has made also have no understanding of the NFL.

I don't think anyone would argue that TT's been perfect. GMs make mistakes. They have to in order to have successes. Player scouting and acquisition is a calculated gamble; sometimes the players you get through draft or FA work out, sometimes they don't. Coach hiring is a lot less of a gamble and I wonder if TT assembled the right staff to get the job done. Even Wolf had failures. Sherman had a large amount of failures. I blame him for a fair amount of our current problems, but I'm starting to enter the realm of questioning TT's moves too. I love his concept of building through the draft, but I am starting to wonder if he's done everything he could in FA too. I'm willing to be patient for one more year, let the youth develop.

But next year, if TTdoesn't have this thing turned around, I'll start to be A LOT more critical.

tyler

[Guiness]

You know what I've seen very little mention of, and I think is as big a problem as anything???

Kurt Schottenheimer. The secondary played awful. He was run out of town by Sherman, who didn't run anyone out of town! Now he's back, and the DB's are running around like they have no clue what's going on.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Guiness,

I agree. That's the coach I most question. I'm also wondering about Bob Sanders, but we'll see. I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.

[jack's smirking revenge]

You know what I've seen very little mention of, and I think is as big a problem as anything???

Kurt Schottenheimer. The secondary played awful. He was run out of town by Sherman, who didn't run anyone out of town! Now he's back, and the DB's are running around like they have no clue what's going on.

VERY good point. I forgot about Schittenhemier.

tyler

[Patler]

I think Harvy's time table is realistic. The end of next year, we should have a good idea of what we have and where we are going.

Right now says nothing. NE had off years. Pittsburgh has had off years. Every team does. People freaking out and calling the GM incompitent after 1 or even 2 down years completely lack understanding of the NFL as a whole combined with negative effect that 4 consecutive horrible drafts has on an organization. Sherman killed the Packers. Now how long will it take to rebuild? 1 or 2 years isn't enough to cover for 4 players who succeeded out of 4 entire years worth of draft picks.

People who continue using Sherman's failures as an excuse for the mistakes TT has made also have no understanding of the NFL.

And people who refuse to recognize the long term effects of Shermans mistakes as a GM also do not understand the NFL. A roster is a living thing. It needs to be nurtured continually. When you starve it of its needed nutrients for three years, there are long-lasting effects.

[Joemailman]

Guiness,

I agree. That's the coach I most question. I'm also wondering about Bob Sanders, but we'll see. I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.


Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

[Patler]

You know what I've seen very little mention of, and I think is as big a problem as anything???

Kurt Schottenheimer. The secondary played awful. He was run out of town by Sherman, who didn't run anyone out of town! Now he's back, and the DB's are running around like they have no clue what's going on.

VERY good point. I forgot about Schittenhemier.

tyler

I'm glad you mentioned it! I meant to last night. I thought about it in the first quarter when the DBs showed the same kind of confusion that we saw in 2004. That was the one Assistant Coach hiring that almost turned my stomach, but I said to myself the problem may have been Slowik in 2004, not Schottenheimer.

But all those bad feelings came back with the long pass plays and the DBs looking at each other trying to figure out who screwed up yesterday, at least early in the game.

[Fritz]

Patler -

As you are probably aware, I'm a supporter of TT, but I too questioned the hiring of Schottenheimer, and cringed when I saw Marquand and Harris shrugging and pointing after the early touchdown.

I don't understand that hiring, at all.

BTW, I don't see Sherman as someone who was hesitant to fire assistants. He ditched a few in his time.

[Patler]

Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

Joe, I'm not Harvey, but I'll comment anyway! :D

It wasn't as unbalanced as it looks. Favre had 5 attempts, but he also had 3 sacks in the first half. So that was 8 passing plays called (not counting the fake punt!) On the other hand, only 11 running plays were called. One was the QB sneak on 4th down and two others were 3rd downs with less than a yard to go. So on actual plays with reasonable pass/run options it was not that unbalanced at all.

Besides, when you run less than 20 plays its hard to have any kind of balance!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

We tried to pass 8 times (5 passes and 3 sacks) and Ahman ran the ball 10 times in the first half, so we were definitely more run oriented in the first half, but I don't think it was a bad strategy. It was getting us into 3rd and short situations. A combination of bad execution (a couple of 3rd and 1 runs weren't blocked well enough) and bad luck (Wells stepping on Favre's foot and the QB sneak) stopped us from converting those and sustaining drives. I'll never complain about running it on 3rd and 1 with a guy like Ahman Green in the backfield though.

I think there would have been more passing if we could have sustained drives--because the running game likely would have opened up the passing game a bit.

[woodbuck27]

Guiness,

I agree. That's the coach I most question. I'm also wondering about Bob Sanders, but we'll see. I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.


Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

Yes.

Brett Favre was 5/5 and . .70 yards passing at the half ! Five pass's and of those two completed to Batman ( A. Green ), for a total of 18 yards.

First series DOWN 7-0. Three runs by A.Green = 3 and out and remainder of plays: (note: ** = PASS PLAYS)

CHI 7 GB 0, Plays: 6 Yards: 78 Possession: 2:55.

Chicago Bears at 12:05

R.Gould kicks 69 yards from CHI 30 to GB 1. S.Gado to GB 17 for 16 yards (J.Williams).

Green Bay Packers at 12:00

1-10-GB17 (12:00) A.Green right guard to GB 20 for 3 yards (L.Briggs).

2-7-GB20 (11:26) A.Green right guard to GB 26 for 6 yards (M.Brown).

3-1-GB26 (10:59) A.Green left tackle to GB 26 for no gain (L.Briggs).

4-1-GB26 (10:24) J.Ryan punts 45 yards to CHI 29, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 27 for -2 yards (A.Carroll).


Second Series -First half (Score still. . . Bears 7 Packers 0 )

Green Bay Packers at 05:02

** 1-10-GB20 (5:02) B.Favre pass deep right to D.Driver to GB 37 for 17 yards (C.Harris).

1-10-GB37 (4:34) A.Green up the middle to GB 40 for 3 yards (L.Briggs, T.Johnson).

2-7-GB40 (3:59) A.Green left end to GB 44 for 4 yards (A.Ogunleye).

3-3-GB44 (3:21) B.Favre sacked at GB 40 for -4 yards (L.Briggs).

4-7-GB40 (3:04) (Punt formation)

PENALTY on GB-A.Carroll, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at GB 40 - No Play.

4-12-GB35 (2:56) J.Ryan punts 43 yards to CHI 22, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 26 for 4 yards (B.Taylor, A.Carroll).

PENALTY on CHI-A.Peterson, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at CHI 26.


Third Series - First Half

CHI 10 GB 0, Plays: 9 Yards: 62 Possession: 4:03.

Chicago Bears at 13:44

R.Gould kicks 66 yards from CHI 30 to GB 4. S.Gado to GB 22 for 18 yards (A.Peterson).

Green Bay Packers at 13:39

**1-10-GB22 (13:39) B.Favre pass deep middle to D.Lee to GB 47 for 25 yards (B.Urlacher, C.Harris).

1-10-GB47 (13:13) A.Green up the middle to CHI 46 for 7 yards (T.Johnson).

2-3-CHI46 (12:33) A.Green left guard to CHI 44 for 2 yards (C.Tillman).

3-1-CHI44 (11:54) A.Green right tackle to CHI 44 for no gain (T.Harris).

4-1-CHI44 (11:16) B.Favre up the middle to CHI 44 for no gain (A.Ogunleye). Yard marker changed due to change of possession.

That was where M3 needed to at least make some fuss !! He placed the game in the hands of the officials from that point, placed OUR Team at their mercy. NOT GOOD !

4th series First Half:

CHI 16 GB 0, Plays: 4 Yards: 6 Possession: 1:45.


Chicago Bears at 04:38
R.Gould kicks 61 yards from CHI 30 to GB 9. R.Ferguson to GB 25 for 16 yards (R.Manning).

Green Bay Packers at 04:31

1-10-GB25 (4:31) A.Green left end to GB 39 for 14 yards (M.Brown).

1-10-GB39 (3:51) B.Favre sacked at GB 32 for -7 yards (M.Anderson).

2-17-GB32 (3:17) A.Green left tackle to GB 32 for no gain (Ta.Johnson, M.Anderson).

** 3-17-GB32 (2:40) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short middle to A.Green to GB 45 for 13 yards (H.Hillenmeyer, C.Harris).

4-4-GB45 (2:04) (Punt formation) J.Ryan pass short right to N.Herron to CHI 39 for 16 yards (A.Peterson).

1-10-CHI39 (1:57) B.Favre sacked at CHI 50 for -11 yards (A.Brown).

** 2-21-50 (1:18) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short right to A.Green to CHI 45 for 5 yards (B.Urlacher).

** 3-16-CHI45 (:40) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short left to R.Ferguson to CHI 35 for 10 yards (N.Vasher).

4-6-CHI35 (:04) D.Rayner 53 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-R.Davis, Holder-J.Ryan.

END OF FIRST HALF

CHI 16 - GB 0,


What was that??

Also we were NOT exactly running the ball very well in the first half. Ahman Green, rushing for 39 of his 110 yards.

[woodbuck27]

Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

We tried to pass 8 times (5 passes and 3 sacks) and Ahman ran the ball 10 times in the first half, so we were definitely more run oriented in the first half, but I don't think it was a bad strategy. It was getting us into 3rd and short situations. A combination of bad execution (a couple of 3rd and 1 runs weren't blocked well enough) and bad luck (Wells stepping on Favre's foot and the QB sneak) stopped us from converting those and sustaining drives. I'll never complain about running it on 3rd and 1 with a guy like Ahman Green in the backfield though.

I think there would have been more passing if we could have sustained drives--because the running game likely would have opened up the passing game a bit.

A little thing ,then another little thing . .then another untill the BEARs got out there> 2 TD's

Little miscucues

Three sacks. . .

Patience not to try for 4th and short in first series - correctly punting ...

Then later. . .in third series and down 10-0 . . try a 4th and short to no avail. . . after. . . possibly getting a bad spot. . . but no fuss from OUR Head coach?

Never getting any timing down...no play flow.

SCORE GOES TO Bears 19 and Packers ZERO with just under 2 minutes remaing in the 3rd Quarter.

Then it goes really from bad to worse.

We stunk and we'll have to recover.

END of STORY !!

GO PACKERS ! FAN FAITH ! Laugh away GregJennings. :idea:

[MJZiggy]

I'm not going to argue with the premise of your post, but wanted you to know that M3 was asked about not challenging that 4th-and-inches spot and he said that he didn't have enough information on the sidelines to challenge it. So I wanna know, who is responsible up in the booth for getting a good look at it and telling him it might be worth challenging? I mean he challenged the obvious fumble for the hell of it, why not this which was much closer?

[FritzDontBlitz]

That kind of loss is bound to bring out all the "Fire Thompson" threads. It just comes witht the territory. As a matter of fact, I think I'd like to punch him myself this morning.


This loss has little to do with it. This is about all the player mistakes he has made. This is about bringing in Manuel and Woodson and the money spent on them. This is about bringing in a HC that most everyone agrees is in over his head. This is about totally ignoring our offensive line need's and that mistake was made LAST YEAR. This is about Gado and Herron returning kicks and being Green's back-up when they would'nt make anyone else's roster. This is about bringing in 2 untried kickers and hoping that experience will make them better. These are just a few examples and there are several more. No, this is'nt about yesterday. this is about a GM who has made SEVERAL mistakes. This is about a GM who does'nt have the brains or ability to run the team we all love.........

this is about pushing the panic button after one game.

[jack's smirking revenge]

this is about pushing the panic button after one game.

Some valid reasons to take a look at said button:

1. First shutout at home in Favre's career.
2. Abyssmal play from most facets of the team.
3. Embarrassing loss to division leader at home.
4. Favre closer to the wrong record after one game.
5. Secondary looking extremely suspect against a mediocre WR corps and QB.

Did you see any improvement in this game over what was displayed in pre-season? I sure didn't. People talked of M3 "not showing much" in preseason because he was preparing for the Bears. I sure hope that wasn't the case, because he showed us very little yesterday, other than his ability to give us dumbfounded expressions.

I think its safe to consider the panic buttton. If not, the problems we witnessed on Sunday WON'T be corrected. (Not that we can personally do anything to change the team)

tyler

[Packers4Ever]

I agree, there seems to be nothing but confusion on the field- It looked like the Packers had never played together yesterday. I have felt that the scouting needs to be blown up because every other team seems to find guys who out hustle, out jump, just flat out care more. We seem to get the leftovers or those who "might" be something. Its just me venting but this has gone on for a few years. We seem to be lethargic every time I watch a game.


The only guy on the Packers with any heart left is Donald Driver. We need 52 other guys that play like him.


That was well said, Zach.
I'm not numb anymore today, just still can't believe
this really happened yesterday.

(sorry for the sig below, it was here before my post )

[Packers4Ever]

[quote - packnut]
The heat on the Packer board of dir. is already forming.


Just curious to know where you heard this? When?

[Green Bud Packer]

this is about pushing the panic button after one game.

5. Secondary looking extremely suspect against a mediocre WR corps and QB.

grossman is a first round pick who has looked good when he plays and a healthy muhammed is closer to a game breaker than a mediocre reciever.

[PTPaQ]

I like TT's drafts.

But thats about where it ends.

[jack's smirking revenge]

this is about pushing the panic button after one game.

5. Secondary looking extremely suspect against a mediocre WR corps and QB.

grossman is a first round pick who has looked good when he plays and a healthy muhammed is closer to a game breaker than a mediocre reciever.

I beg to differ. This is the first time that Grossman has even looked decent and made Bears fans confident that they have their QB. If he was so good, Griese as a starter wouldn't even be part of the chatter. He's spent more time on the bench with injuries than on the field, looking good.

Muhammad is a great receiver and he did make some great catches. But he didn't score. Bernard Berrian scored. And we allowed Muhammad to have a 100-yd game, dominating our secondary. This won't be the best WR corps that we see this year and isn't near one of the best in the NFL. Beyond Muhammad, you're telling me that their secondary isn't mediocre? Berrian? Gage? Bradley?

tyler

[Packnut]

[quote - packnut]
The heat on the Packer board of dir. is already forming.


Just curious to know where you heard this? When?

What I meant was the media is now questioing some of the moves TT has made and after reading everything I could today, the conclusion was that a great majority of Packer fans are not pleased at all with what TT has done. Add to the fact about the story on another site that Jones is'nt a fan of TT's just adds fuel to the fire.

[ZachMN]

I need to add one more player for the pack who plays with heart- Aaron Kampman. Problem is Kampman is at best an average player.

I thought Shermans gameplans were odd but when Harvey posts:I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.

WHAT??? Lets try to run at the heart of the Bears defense!! WRONG! Look at the results. This stupid team should have run a no huddle short quick passing attack to tire out the bears. You have to be conscious of what you have and how it relates to the opposition i.e. realize what you can and can't do not pound the rock and hope it works out. Shermans biggest problem was he zigged when he should have zagged and he couldn't adjust. Yesterday makes me wonder what the hell Thompson saw in this guy. We only got running yardage because the bears were so far ahead they just sat back and waited for the picks that were sure to come.

Shit runs down hill Thompson-Mcarthy who then hired Sanders-what the hell is wrong with that defense? Guys were looking around before every bear play like they had never seen one another.

Woodson has to GO. NOW! SEND A MESSAGE

[Packnut]

I need to add one more player for the pack who plays with heart- Aaron Kampman. Problem is Kampman is at best an average player.

I thought Shermans gameplans were odd but when Harvey posts:I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.

WHAT??? Lets try to run at the heart of the Bears defense!! WRONG! Look at the results. This stupid team should have run a no huddle short quick passing attack to tire out the bears. You have to be conscious of what you have and how it relates to the opposition i.e. realize what you can and can't do not pound the rock and hope it works out. Shermans biggest problem was he zigged when he should have zagged and he couldn't adjust. Yesterday makes me wonder what the hell Thompson saw in this guy. We only got running yardage because the bears were so far ahead they just sat back and waited for the picks that were sure to come.

Shit runs down hill Thompson-Mcarthy who then hired Sanders-what the hell is wrong with that defense? Guys were looking around before every bear play like they had never seen one another.

Woodson has to GO. NOW! SEND A MESSAGE

Good post and very accurate.

[Bretsky]

Guiness,

I agree. That's the coach I most question. I'm also wondering about Bob Sanders, but we'll see. I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.

I guess I mildly agree with you Harv; I'd give MM a D+ for the offensive game plan coming out of the gate and Dunn a D-.

The sets he came out in the first series on O told the Bears exactly what we were doing. And the sets where we were passing w/o Donald Driver even in the game doesn't cut it with me. In the first half they seemed to rotate the 3WR's too much; that has to stop.

The defense; don't even know where to start. But Popper clearly isn't ready to start if we truly want to compete now and the secondary has to be better.
I didn't think they even played average and that's the strength of our team

And I agree with Guiness in that Schottenheimers's hiring was still baffling. But then again I found Dunn to be equally baffling. Time will tell.

B

[mraynrand]

I'll never complain about running it on 3rd and 1 with a guy like Ahman Green in the backfield though.


I will, especially if you put your weakness - two rookie guards and a hobbled and sick LT against the other team's strenght - their DTs and DEs - three times in a row! 3rd and 1 with green twice, then the 4th and one ith Favre. Your best players are Favre and Driver and perhaps green. At least on one of those short yardage plays, they should have run the flanker option. Recall that this play was a staple of the WCO and the Packers with Sharpe and Brooks running it to prefection.

The offensive strategy of taking the ball out of Favre's control was mind boggling. 5-5 in the first half, 2-2 for 42 yards on his first two possesions, and McCarthy continues to plow straight up the gut - Green was about 9-32 in his first carries before the game was decided.

And about the defense - it wasn't the problem. They gave up ONE TD and four FGs, but two of those were pretty much gimmies, given the blown 4th and one and the Herron fumble. That's 13-16 points on the defense. It's absurd to lay the blame on the defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I guess I mildly agree with you Harv; I'd give MM a D+ for the offensive game plan coming out of the gate and Dunn a D-.

Dunn? Do you mean Sanders?

[Bretsky]

I guess I mildly agree with you Harv; I'd give MM a D+ for the offensive game plan coming out of the gate and Dunn a D-.

Dunn? Do you mean Sanders?

yes, my bad

[bbbffl66]

I respect your opinion and admire you optimism.

Packnut you don't know what the f@ck you're talk.....Huh? What? You don't want to drag this out and argue and debate? Nice response. Not what I was expecting at all.

:lol:

I'm as broken as you are about yesterday, but part of me has already given in for 2006. If we get trounced by the best team in our division and our arch-rivals in embarrassing fashion, we can't really expect the ultimate prize in 2006, can we?

tyler

Forget the "ultimate prize", I just want to win a couple of games. Oakland is not on our schedule, and no one else looks as bad as we do.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I respect your opinion and admire you optimism.

Packnut you don't know what the f@ck you're talk.....Huh? What? You don't want to drag this out and argue and debate? Nice response. Not what I was expecting at all.

:lol:

I'm as broken as you are about yesterday, but part of me has already given in for 2006. If we get trounced by the best team in our division and our arch-rivals in embarrassing fashion, we can't really expect the ultimate prize in 2006, can we?

tyler

Forget the "ultimate prize", I just want to win a couple of games. Oakland is not on our schedule, and no one else looks as bad as we do.

I agree. Winning some games is a good place to start. I'd like to see that. The comment was really directed at those who think that there's going to be some magical, Patriots-like turnaround in store. I don't see it. Not with all of the new pieces to the puzzle.

tyler

[Packnut]

I'll debate the merits of TT with anyone anytime. The facts are on my side and his moves when it comes to the mistakes he's made can't be debated. My problem with people on this forum is that to many argue with only their opinion and nothing to back it up.

However, unlike TT I am not an egotistical person and realize that although they are only opinions without fact, they still need to be respected. Some people here obviously have no problem getting shut out and embarrassed by our biggest rival and continue to make excuses. This "things will get better" crap is nothing but wishfull thinking. I'm sure the fans in SF and Det and Buff thought the same thing at one time or another.

I can say that 2 yrs from now when we are still the laughingstock of the league, I will take no pleasure in saying "I told ya so". No, at that point all the discussion will center around how the new GM has to fix the problems created by TT just as it was TT who had to try and fix what Sherman did.

[Packers4Ever]

I'm not going to argue with the premise of your post, but wanted you to know that M3 was asked about not challenging that 4th-and-inches spot and he said that he didn't have enough information on the sidelines to challenge it. So I wanna know, who is responsible up in the booth for getting a good look at it and telling him it might be worth challenging? I mean he challenged the obvious fumble for the hell of it, why not this which was much closer?

Zig, did you watch the Mike McCarthy show tonight, it was on at 6:30 or so. He was asked this same question about not having challenged the 4th and inches call. He said there was someone upstairs and I thought he said Schottenheimer (sp) so if true, he was the one who didn't get the word down to Mike.
I thought he was rather evasive on several questions tonight. Of course, what could he say? People see what's going on.

[MJZiggy]

I'm not in market, so I have to wait until they get the show on packers.com so I have not seen it yet. Thanks for letting me know. If Schott was responsible then he needs to be schott. (or at least fired). He's done this job before, he's supposed to be the one guy on the coaching staff who knows the drill. There's no excuse for the coach not knowing whether the spot was right or not.

[MJZiggy]

Actually while we're on the topic of officiating, I think the officials should have the opportunity to take a look at the replay on the jumbotron and be given the opportunity to say that they might have been wrong and change a call based on what they see. If everyone else gets the chance to do that, why shouldn't the guy whose job it is to make the calls get to.

[Packers4Ever]

Actually while we're on the topic of officiating, I think the officials should have the opportunity to take a look at the replay on the jumbotron and be given the opportunity to say that they might have been wrong and change a call based on what they see. If everyone else gets the chance to do that, why shouldn't the guy whose job it is to make the calls get to.

Makes sense to me, I wonder why they don't. Or would they then call 'delay of game' ?? :smile:

[MJZiggy]

I wouldn't care if it meant getting the right call.

[Packers4Ever]

I wouldn't care if it meant getting the right call.

I'm very sure no one here would care either, including myself. If it took an extra 2 minutes they could just deduct it off the next commercial. :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

I'll wait until the end of next year to judge Thompson. Yes, the end of next year. You have to give a GM three years to evaluate them. By then, all of these young guys will be hitting their stride, and we'll see what the team looks like.

BTW, Cleveland's defense vs. Chicago's defense = HUGE difference

Are you seriously going to put in another year losing if we win six or less games Harvey?

I had thought maybe that 7-9 wasn't unrealistic but after Suday... 7-9 is like climbing Mount Everest without training.

We will win between 1 and 5 games as OUR blocking /OL is and NO MORE.

I don't make or like to make predictions, especially one so negative on a team I love. I hate what has been done to Brett Favre. After all his hard work. I hate what will happen to Ahman Green. Will it be this next game or the next... but something serious will take place. With OUR OL. It hast to.

It really piss's me off.

The day that Ted Thompson is FIRED will be a GOOD ,a VERY GOOD DAY. The sooner the better.He has left OUR Team crippled in his need for his faulty ego.

The Saints come in on Sunday... and after the way we man handled them last Season. It will be "in their minds"... payback time. . . and payback's........ " a BITCH ".

We must pull out ALL THE STOPS, to win that return visit, and what does Mike McCarthy really have for "the Saints" as far as Offensive play calimg? We are terrible.

We played badly last year in preseason games (2-2) and finished 4-12.This year in TC we were worse in preseason games at 1 - 3.

I agree with the following;

Author: Josh Fiedler

Conventional wisdom usually tell us that preseason is not good for much, that a team's performance in its first four games of the year before the "real" season starts does little to determine how well the team will do in the following 16 contests. I have always disagreed. It would seem that a team that struggles in the preseason is more likely to struggle in the regular season and that the ancillary to that would be true with a team that has successes.



Harvey:

If we loose badly on Sunday... that's NOT going to be pretty.

Something BIG has to be and will be done. Something really BIG - BAD ASS Ugly. If people here really are swolling TT's BS? I feel badly for them. For what good reason should any of us expect that TT could survive back to back 4-12 seasons or less win's for us than in 2005?

[MJZiggy]

I wouldn't care if it meant getting the right call.

I'm very sure no one here would care either, including myself. If it took an extra 2 minutes they could just deduct it off the next commercial. :mrgreen:

Just to let you know that we're not the only ones thinking about this issue...

Dolphins | Saban wants NFL to adopt NCAA replay system
Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:52:47 -0700

Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports Miami Dolphins head coach Nick Saban would like for the NFL to adopt the college football replay system, in which a replay official can review and overrule a ruling made by an on-field official. "I did go home on Saturday night, and I watched parts of several college football games," Saban said. "Man, that seems like it works a whole lot better to me. They just look at in the booth and if the official messed it up, they fix it."

[Packers4Ever]

I wouldn't care if it meant getting the right call.

I'm very sure no one here would care either, including myself. If it took an extra 2 minutes they could just deduct it off the next commercial. :mrgreen:

Just to let you know that we're not the only ones thinking about this issue...

Dolphins | Saban wants NFL to adopt NCAA replay system
Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:52:47 -0700

Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports Miami Dolphins head coach Nick Saban would like for the NFL to adopt the college football replay system, in which a replay official can review and overrule a ruling made by an on-field official. "I did go home on Saturday night, and I watched parts of several college football games," Saban said. "Man, that seems like it works a whole lot better to me. They just look at in the booth and if the official messed it up, they fix it."

I'm sure Nick Saban would love to see that rule put into play for the NFL. Until a year ago he'd been HC of LSU in LA (according to a friend) and they miss Nick terribly down there. Bet he sure misses that college replay system!
That was a real plum for the Dolphins to pick him up, he should be a great leader.

[Partial]

I wouldn't care if it meant getting the right call.

I'm very sure no one here would care either, including myself. If it took an extra 2 minutes they could just deduct it off the next commercial. :mrgreen:

Just to let you know that we're not the only ones thinking about this issue...

Dolphins | Saban wants NFL to adopt NCAA replay system
Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:52:47 -0700

Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports Miami Dolphins head coach Nick Saban would like for the NFL to adopt the college football replay system, in which a replay official can review and overrule a ruling made by an on-field official. "I did go home on Saturday night, and I watched parts of several college football games," Saban said. "Man, that seems like it works a whole lot better to me. They just look at in the booth and if the official messed it up, they fix it."

And Nick Saban has it absolutely right. There is no reason you should need to wisely safe your challenges in order to get the correct call on the field. The less the referees judgement is involved in the game the better.

[The Shadow]

".....However, the Packer world seem's to be united in putting the blame where it belongs-right on TT's head. "

Please don't include me in the 'united' group.
I think this team needed to be gutted & rebuilt.
Thompson has the thankless (for now) job of making the tough decisions to get the Packers competitive again.
I'm in his corner and will allow him time to see if he can pull it off.

[vince]

".....However, the Packer world seem's to be united in putting the blame where it belongs-right on TT's head. "

Please don't include me in the 'united' group.
I think this team needed to be gutted & rebuilt.
Thompson has the thankless (for now) job of making the tough decisions to get the Packers competitive again.
I'm in his corner and will allow him time to see if he can pull it off.
I'm with you, Shadow, but I think things will get worse for Ted before they get better. I am pretty confident he'll survive the heat, but I think he'll be a popular topic for conversation throughout Packer Nation the next couple months ... He certainly has chosen a risky path... In today's day and age, the kind of understanding of the complexities of the process and patience Harvey will employ is an increasingly rare quality.

[Packnut]

".....However, the Packer world seem's to be united in putting the blame where it belongs-right on TT's head. "

Please don't include me in the 'united' group.
I think this team needed to be gutted & rebuilt.
Thompson has the thankless (for now) job of making the tough decisions to get the Packers competitive again.
I'm in his corner and will allow him time to see if he can pull it off.


I'm very heartened by the amount of Pack fans who do not take getting our ass whipped by the Bears as lightly as some here do, but then again I just assume some just don't get the rivalry. As for the gutting and rebuilding crap, TT gets paid a ton of cash to field a competitive team. I find it very funny that several of the same posters who complained about Walker and made comments about him not "earning" the cash his first 2 years are now content to give TT a few yrs while he earns a good sum of cash also. Why does he deserve a free pass?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Apples to oranges.

Besides, he's not one of the highest paid GMs in the league, so even if it was an apples to apples comparison, it wouldn't be much of one.

[potsdam_11]

I'm very heartened by the amount of Pack fans who do not take getting our ass whipped by the Bears as lightly as some here do, but then again I just assume some just don't get the rivalry. As for the gutting and rebuilding crap, TT gets paid a ton of cash to field a competitive team. I find it very funny that several of the same posters who complained about Walker and made comments about him not "earning" the cash his first 2 years are now content to give TT a few yrs while he earns a good sum of cash also. Why does he deserve a free pass?

Some don't get the rivalry..?? You must be the "some"....

Until Favre came along, this "rivalry" was heavily lopsided toward the Bears.... That's right, most of the time they win... In fact, overall, they still own us... I've been watching this rivalry since the mid sixties, get over it....

It's their turn... Again..

I see you claim Oak Lawn IL, as your residence... Here's a take for you....For the last 12 years or so, you have routinely shot your mouth off to the Bear's fans, about how pathetic the Bear's are, and how the Pack was going to kick their keesters. For the most part you were correct..(Probably even made some good coin at their expense). Now however, the shoe is on the other foot, and payback is hell.

So.. let's blame TT for your sorry life...

You'll reap what you have sown, and sounds like you haven't developed a taste for Crow... :D