More Banjo: Week 11 @ San Fran

[pbmax]

Defense was put in bad situations in the first half but resisted and kept it close. Dr. Z was a monster.

Got a stop to open the 3rd period. Offense gave them nothing. Defense then yields big plays and game is over.

Bulaga hurt. Pass offense is a mess. Run offense doesn't work well with Williams and he doesn't make up for it in the pass game. No big plays. Jones needs to play more but someone is insisting he doesn't. Took him out of best drive of night to put Williams in while in SF territory.

Lets never play in California again.

Whatever Matt Nagy would do to get over playing badly in Cali, do the opposite.

[pbmax]

Off topic, but they had an 18 year old state police officer giving tips about how to be safe on holiday travels this year on the local news.

He doesn't even shave yet, but tell me all about safe driving young man.

[pbmax]

This team has resisted being figured out.

But I think these last 2 California losses make the point that the defense can be tough but be had.

And the offense is eminently stoppable.

Feels like a 10-6 team regardless of what the record will end up being.

[Joemailman]

This is a good bounce back season. Probably shouldn't expect it to be more than that.

[Joemailman]

Flower not happy. Not freaking out, but not mincing words either. Short PC.

[call_me_ishmael]

Reminds me of the 2015 Broncos game that broke the Packers. Can they recover?

[woodbuck27]

This is a good bounce back season. Probably shouldn't expect it to be more than that.

Keeping it positive; yes.

[woodbuck27]

Realistically this 2019 Packer Roster has weakness all over.

We should be most concerned with:

The OL

Weakness in the Passing Game.

Speed and talent in the Secondary ( CB AND SAFETY )

I don't see much reason for hope and a turn around and no legitimate NO. 2 WR. Goot had to bring in help there by the Trading Deadline.

The 'Have Teams' made the necessary moves and our Teams GM sat pat. That was an error.

The Packer Receivers have to improve their Route Running dramatically..

Aaron Rodgers has to stay on his feet and stop those silly dink passes.

That's asking a lot !

[Joemailman]

Vikings remaining schedule:


13 Mon December 2 8:15PM ET @ Seattle Seahawks
14 Sun December 8 1:00PM ET Detroit Lions
15 Sun December 15 8:20PM ET @ Los Angeles Chargers
16 Mon December 23 8:15PM ET Green Bay Packers
17 Sun December 29 1:00PM ET Chicago Bears


If they win at Seattle next week, they probably become the favorite to win the division.

[pbmax]

The answer to guess that take from Bill Huber:

The lack of a #2 WR is a strength because it’s different guy each week so defense don’t know how to plan.

[Sparkey]

I thought Adams would make the offense really good when he returned, but it looks disjointed with him on the field.

[Sparkey]

Question ? Why is Allison playing. He literally can not outrun anyone.

[Teamcheez1]

I have to put this season in perspective.
We haven't made the playoffs in two years, and looks it like we will be returning this year.
There is still work to do with this roster to reach the top echelon of playoff teams.

All of you have mentioned areas that need improvement from OL, WR, ILB, etc.. Can AR hold it together for a few more years to have at least one more shot at the superbowl?
8-3 is a far cry from where we stood when the season started.

[Joemailman]

Question ? Why is Allison playing. He literally can not outrun anyone.

Speed has never been his strong point. But he's dropped a lot of passes this year. He's been terrible. He'll be gone after this year.

[Sparkey]

The 49ers were smart to target Martinez on play action crossing patterns over the middle.

[Joemailman]

I thought Adams would make the offense really good when he returned, but it looks disjointed with him on the field.


That’s another thing we’ve got to look at, making sure that we’re not over-reliant on trying to go to (Adams),” LaFleur said.

Criticism of his own game plan, or sending a message to Rodgers?

[Sparkey]

Criticism of his own game plan, or sending a message to Rodgers?

Ahhh, so LaFleur sees it as well..

[Teamcheez1]

Ahhh, so LaFleur sees it as well..

Not saying we would have had a ton of success against the 49ers defense, but LaFleur put in a game plan and it sure looked at times like AR simply couldn't execute it or make the right decisions.

[Fosco33]

Did Savage return after getting helmet-helmet by the RB? Feels like when he’s out there and healthy - we’re much better. Hard to hang that on a rookie / but that role is so integral to a solid secondary.

[Joemailman]

Did Savage return after getting helmet-helmet by the RB? Feels like when he’s out there and healthy - we’re much better. Hard to hang that on a rookie / but that role is so integral to a solid secondary.

He only missed 2 snaps.

[Bossman641]

What is the identity of our offense? Anyone? Feels like the only passing play we can run consistently is a wr screen, and those only gain 4-7 yards at a time.

[call_me_ishmael]

Methinks it's time for an offensive heavy draft or two after years of defensive focus. The receivers as a whole just aren't getting it done. This may be an unpopular opinion and misguided but to me it sorta seems like Adams is overrated. Shouldn't a top 5 WR be able to make some stuff happen?

[Fritz]

Here's my in-depth analysis of the Packers' performance against San Francisco:


https://i.redd.it/qn5gheyez0y21.jpg

[Freak Out]

I thought Adams would make the offense really good when he returned, but it looks disjointed with him on the field.

It has taken the ball away from Jones.

[Freak Out]

Fritz! Ugh...

[Joemailman]

It has taken the ball away from Jones.

At least a couple of times last night I saw Jones covered by a CB. Which shows how much they fear the Packers receivers.

Your point stands though. Adams was targeted 12 times, Jones 1. Williams was targeted 8, but it only resulted in 35 yards.

Previous week vs. Carolina, Adams was targeted 10 times, Jones 0.

Versus Chargers, Adams 11, Jones 3.

Versus Chiefs without Adams, Jones was targeted 8 times.

[Smidgeon]

So I'm by no means a football expert, so maybe one of you who know more can answer.

It appears to me the Packers are playing a lot of zone, but they're just not very good at it. I thought Alexander and King were better man to man than zone corners, but zone can be used to shore up some weaknesses in return for making it easier to attack. In the first few games, I thought I saw a lot of man to man and little zone. The last few games it seems to be reversed, and it isn't working.

Can anyone with more football insight chime in on what coverages are being played, why they're the preferred coverages, and why they're failing?

[beveaux1]

Defenses have figured out how to play Jones. They don't put a LB on him, they use either a CB or Safety.
He's not open anymore. Adams always has CB #1 on him and he is often doubled.
Nobody else is open. Our TEs can easily be covered by LBs. Our other WRs are covered or pushed out of position.

Our OL is average at best. When you spend 5 years on draft picks for the defense with nothing but 3rd round or
later talent spent on the offense, and when you blow 2 high profile free agent signings at TE, you're lucky to be
mediocre on offense. Rodgers keeps us from being much weaker and he's on the decline.

Heck, our only offensive free agent pickup is our weakest link on the line and I'm not labeling him a bust.
PB said we're a 10-6 team and I think that's a little high for our talent level. We're average offensively
and we're average defensively. We had some fortunate breaks in early games and we appear pretty well-coached.

We should end up with at least 11 wins, 2 or 3 more than our talent level. A good season... with a defense that
is more talented than previous years and an offense that's about the same as the past 3 years. Our fast start and
a weak schedule masked our problems, but I fear that the post season will expose them.

[Fosco33]

Fritz! Ugh...

I was thinking they shit the bed. But missing the toilet is also apropos

[texaspackerbacker]

Are people ready to come to the realization that our offensive line is downright shitty? And it wasn't just because Bulaga got hurt. We couldn't run and didn't have time to pass even before he went out - the Niners just decided to concentrate on the new guy after that. We are, of course, still 8-3, which means our GOAT QB and our outstanding RB(s) and our fairly decent WRs were good enough to compensate and win even with the shittiness of the O Line against a lot of other lesser defenses. It ain't gonna happen, but I wish we could just scrap the whole O Line, minus maybe Linsley and Jenkins, and get some road graders who can also stand firm against a pass rush. And for the most part, SF did it with just four rushing, dropping so many back in coverage that nobody was open.

Some say Rodgers should get rid of the ball quick; I absolutely hate those crappy little immediate sideways passes that go nowhere the great majority of the time, but the fact is, there was no time to do anything else.

And our Defense ...... good grief. At least we can attribute our problems on offense to the other team being outstanding. Our damn D can't stop anybody. Early in the game, Pettine was doing what I advocated last week and before - keeping the fat pigs from Northwestern off the field and blitzing the hell out of them ...... And that worked at least moderately well. But as the game wore on, and seemingly just about every time on first down, Pettine went back to the same old thing and got gashed both with runs and passes. Having the lighter faster people in there was at least no worse against the run - the damn clods couldn't stop anybody anyway, and then we at least put some pressure on the QB. At this point, our DBs are so bad that even with help, they were hopeless to cover people. So if the DBs can't cover even with more people dropping back, then why the hell not blitz blitz blitz? I don't know if it is poor coaching/poor scheme or what. Other teams play good pass defense with seemingly lesser players than we have. Alexander has taken a major step back from what he was last season - he reminds me of a home run hitter who gets old and can only hit it to the warning track. Alexander comes close but fails - and King and everybody else fails even worse. Still, coaching/scheme ought to be able to compensate for a lot of that weakness.

8-3 now, and the negativists are coming out of their shells and spewing shit. There's no reason at all why the Packers shouldn't win out even with all the aforementioned problems.

[pittstang5]

I may be partially to blame for last nights loss. Didn’t watch at all and didn’t wear the lucky attire either. I Had to get up super early today, so went to bed early.

I had a feeling all day that this game was going to suck major ass, but was hopeful I’d wake up to a surprise.

Sorry everyone

[QBME]

Not sure on what thread to post this, whatever.
Went back and re-watched most of the game.
Maybe it's just me but does Matt LaFleur's facial language look like he is constantly about to begin crying?

[bobblehead]

Defense was put in bad situations in the first half but resisted and kept it close. Dr. Z was a monster.

Got a stop to open the 3rd period. Offense gave them nothing. Defense then yields big plays and game is over.

Bulaga hurt. Pass offense is a mess. Run offense doesn't work well with Williams and he doesn't make up for it in the pass game. No big plays. Jones needs to play more but someone is insisting he doesn't. Took him out of best drive of night to put Williams in while in SF territory.

Lets never play in California again.

Whatever Matt Nagy would do to get over playing badly in Cali, do the opposite.

Not to be obstinate, but Williams statistically way outplayed jones. 11 carries for 45 and 7 catches for 35 compared to jones 13 for 38 and no catches.

[bobblehead]

I thought Adams would make the offense really good when he returned, but it looks disjointed with him on the field.

Agreed. I think that Rodgers taking the dump offs to the RBs has declined with Adams back and we are facing worse down and distance as a result.

[bobblehead]

Criticism of his own game plan, or sending a message to Rodgers?

The latter I presume.

[bobblehead]

Methinks it's time for an offensive heavy draft or two after years of defensive focus. The receivers as a whole just aren't getting it done. This may be an unpopular opinion and misguided but to me it sorta seems like Adams is overrated. Shouldn't a top 5 WR be able to make some stuff happen?

Rookies WR and TE rarely make an impact for a couple years, so I would rather hit the piggy bank one more time, or trade a pick. Draft us a MLB that can cover!!

[MadtownPacker]

Rodgers needed to have plays that got rid of it quick because the Niners defense came out explosive and never let up the whole game. He also was missing the few times someone was actually open with a few skipping off the ground. Even my niner family member mentioned he didn’t look right.

Was it due to a drive up the 101 on Saturday night??:cnf: is

[red]

What is the identity of our offense? Anyone? Feels like the only passing play we can run consistently is a wr screen, and those only gain 4-7 yards at a time.

our offensive identity is the same as its been for years, its whatever long bomb play rodgers wants to run that down

when adams went out, we got to see a whole new kind of offense that many of us have been craving for years. it finally seemed like aaron had bout into the new coaches system. but as soon as adams came back, we went right back to the same old shit

last night should have been filled with screens and short quick slants, and more running. but instead we had a-rod looking deep on every play

and why the fuck did it take so long to get lewis into the game to help with the blocking? graham adds absolutely nothing to the offense, bring in a guy who can at least help do something

[red]

So I'm by no means a football expert, so maybe one of you who know more can answer.

It appears to me the Packers are playing a lot of zone, but they're just not very good at it. I thought Alexander and King were better man to man than zone corners, but zone can be used to shore up some weaknesses in return for making it easier to attack. In the first few games, I thought I saw a lot of man to man and little zone. The last few games it seems to be reversed, and it isn't working.

Can anyone with more football insight chime in on what coverages are being played, why they're the preferred coverages, and why they're failing?

i don't even think our players know what coverage we are running

we got plays where the whole team looks to be in man, and then king is thinking we're in zone

[Fosco33]

He only missed 2 snaps.

Well that’s good (and bad)

[pbmax]

So I'm by no means a football expert, so maybe one of you who know more can answer.

It appears to me the Packers are playing a lot of zone, but they're just not very good at it. I thought Alexander and King were better man to man than zone corners, but zone can be used to shore up some weaknesses in return for making it easier to attack. In the first few games, I thought I saw a lot of man to man and little zone. The last few games it seems to be reversed, and it isn't working.

Can anyone with more football insight chime in on what coverages are being played, why they're the preferred coverages, and why they're failing?

I might need to subscribe to the Athletic or JSO because the lack of coverage or links has left me scheme opinion deficient this year. So they started out man heavy but had morphed to some more zone without Savage. Not sure where it breaks down to currently.

I think King plays bump or press man well but in a zone he is only good when he can go forward. He is not good at anticipating routes or converting to coverage over the middle. Alex is more flexible. So you can scheme King into bad matchups which team's have done. Same with Martinez and TE routes.

Best way to stop a TE crossing route is to knock him on his ass near the LOS but Fackrell might be the only one big and fast enough to do it.

[pbmax]

Not to be obstinate, but Williams statistically way outplayed jones. 11 carries for 45 and 7 catches for 35 compared to jones 13 for 38 and no catches.

Yes. But Williams was not a game breaker here. Packers couldn't run Jones inside and they couldn't spring him open against a CB. They schemed Jones away and treated Williams like Derek Loville. They just didn't care if Williams got the ball.

[pbmax]

Defenses have figured out how to play Jones. They don't put a LB on him, they use either a CB or Safety.
He's not open anymore. Adams always has CB #1 on him and he is often doubled.
Nobody else is open. Our TEs can easily be covered by LBs. Our other WRs are covered or pushed out of position.
.

This is going to be the problem to solve. Need one more option to torch offenses who commit their best CB or CB+S to Adams and then put the other CB on Jones.

Someone should be open and they weren't finding it last night.

Rodgers still expects Jones and Adams to get open, but he has to wait for it which is causing other problems.

[pbmax]

Bill Huber @BillHuberSI
LaFleur says they've been a bit "over-reliant" on Adams since his return. Again, he points the finger at himself.

[woodbuck27]

Methinks it's time for an offensive heavy draft or two after years of defensive focus. The receivers as a whole just aren't getting it done. This may be an unpopular opinion and misguided but to me it sorta seems like Adams is overrated. Shouldn't a top 5 WR be able to make some stuff happen?

Is Adams playing at 100 % ?

[Bretsky]

I'm with pb; we gotta find ways to utilize Aaron Jones better.

[Joemailman]

I'm with pb; we gotta find ways to utilize Aaron Jones better.

They need to find a way to make teams pay for covering Jones with a CB. There also needs to be better coordination between LaFleur and whichever coach decides which RB is in the game. LaFleur said there were too many plays where he called a pass play to a RB but Jones wasn't in the game. Williams was targeted 8 times. Jones 0.

[beveaux1]

They need to find a way to make teams pay for covering Jones with a CB. There also needs to be better coordination between LaFleur and whichever coach decides which RB is in the game. LaFleur said there were too many plays where he called a pass play to a RB but Jones wasn't in the game. Williams was targeted 8 times. Jones 0.

They threw it to Williams because he was covered by a LB. Our WRs and TEs can’t get open(except Adams) and when Jones is in the game and
In a pass route, he is covered by a DB.

We schemed Jones open for a couple of games but defenses made adjustments. That pass is not there anymore. Even with Adams out for four games, our WRs were rarely targeted. We’ve got nothing outside of Adams at WR and TE if the opposing team has either a good pass rush or a good defensive backfield.

We’ll look better offensively against the Giants and Redskins because of their lack of defensive talent. Still doesn’t make our offense good.

[woodbuck27]

They threw it to Williams because he was covered by a LB. Our WRs and TEs can’t get open(except Adams) and when Jones is in the game and
In a pass route, he is covered by a DB.

We schemed Jones open for a couple of games but defenses made adjustments. That pass is not there anymore. Even with Adams out for four games, our WRs were rarely targeted. We’ve got nothing outside of Adams at WR and TE if the opposing team has either a good pass rush or a good defensive backfield.

We’ll look better offensively against the Giants and Redskins because of their lack of defensive talent. Still doesn’t make our offense good.

Excellently expressed.

[woodbuck27]

They need to find a way to make teams pay for covering Jones with a CB. There also needs to be better coordination between LaFleur and whichever coach decides which RB is in the game. LaFleur said there were too many plays where he called a pass play to a RB but Jones wasn't in the game. Williams was targeted 8 times. Jones 0.

Wow !

Learning curve?!

[texaspackerbacker]

None of the brilliant suggestions for our offense are any good if our O Line can't block - and against a good defense, they pretty much can't. They're barely ok against an average or bad defense.

A helluva lot of people in here seem inclined to dismiss all the wins we had, most of them lately because of offensive excellence. I see no reason we can't continue to defeat lesser teams the same way. Let the whiners spew their annoying whine about how "we're unworthy" - the team ain't good enough to have so good a record. They're probably the same lame-assed people who predicted a shitty record for the season.

How many times have I said it for how many years? - Aaron Rodgers plus mediocrity equals a solidly winning record. It takes just a little bit more, though, to win every week, like against teams with strong defense at their own place.

[pbmax]

They need to find a way to make teams pay for covering Jones with a CB. There also needs to be better coordination between LaFleur and whichever coach decides which RB is in the game. LaFleur said there were too many plays where he called a pass play to a RB but Jones wasn't in the game. Williams was targeted 8 times. Jones 0.

I feel like this is coach speak. It can't be that this never comes up in game planning.

If it doesn't, they should dock his pay.

[bobblehead]

Too everyone lamenting that Jones is being covered by a CB, that simply means we should be able to run effectively. If teams are lining up that way, either a WR is covered by a S or they are playing dime and we should audible into a run play.

[pbmax]

Too everyone lamenting that Jones is being covered by a CB, that simply means we should be able to run effectively. If teams are lining up that way, either a WR is covered by a S or they are playing dime and we should audible into a run play.

WR or TE covered by a safety is my guess. Big slow guy in slot has its downside.

[Fritz]

Too everyone lamenting that Jones is being covered by a CB, that simply means we should be able to run effectively. If teams are lining up that way, either a WR is covered by a S or they are playing dime and we should audible into a run play.
Hell, the way Allison, MVS and the other dregs are playing, defenses could use AJ Hawk to cover the wide receivers not named Adams. And my mom could cover Jimmy Graham at this point.

[Iron Mike]

Too much sour grapes for me after a week....

Let's look at it a little more objectively: year 3 of Kyle Shanahan > year 1 of Matt LaFleur. Don't ignore the fact that Kyle Shanahan's record in 2017 was 6-10 and 4-12 in 2018. Them high draft picks obviously can have an impact. So, I'm guessing LaFleur will be at least 10-6 in his rookie season, already 1 year up on Kyle Shanahan, in the same system. Let's trust Gutekunst to make magic again in the draft and free agency, and let the players get used to this system.

I'm gonna look forward to 2020, when I think 37-8 will be routinely the beatdowns we lay on the Bears and Queens.......

[ThunderDan]

Too much sour grapes for me after a week....

Let's look at it a little more objectively: year 3 of Kyle Shanahan > year 1 of Matt LaFleur. Don't ignore the fact that Kyle Shanahan's record in 2017 was 6-10 and 4-12 in 2018. Them high draft picks obviously can have an impact. So, I'm guessing LaFleur will be at least 10-6 in his rookie season, already 1 year up on Kyle Shanahan, in the same system. Let's trust Gutekunst to make magic again in the draft and free agency, and let the players get used to this system.

I'm gonna look forward to 2020, when I think 37-8 will be routinely the beatdowns we lay on the Bears and Queens.......

I think this is my thought also. We are out performing the talent on our team. Our roster is markedly better than last years but still we have a bunch of holes to fill. I think we are finally on the right path after a slow decline over the last 2 to 4 years in talent.

We are a year ahead of where I thought we would be.

[beveaux1]

I think this is my thought also. We are out performing the talent on our team. Our roster is markedly better than last years but still we have a bunch of holes to fill. I think we are finally on the right path after a slow decline over the last 2 to 4 years in talent.

We are a year ahead of where I thought we would be.

I agree with this. I, too, thought we would be top level competitive next year. I thought we had an outside
chance at the playoffs this year based on talent level. We've overperformed and that's led to unrealistic
expectations.

If you get to the playoffs, there's always a chance. I just think it would be a better chance next year.

[pbmax]

all that tryptophan is draining out the panic of the board.

Downright reasonable.

[call_me_ishmael]

I keep seeing chatter about how teams adjusted to Aaron Jones being split out wide and covering him with a CB.

Okay, totally understand how that changes thing, but what I do not understand is why they need to split him out why to utilize him in the passing game? It would seem to me that running more routes from the backfield - maybe even an i formation or pro set, would be a huge advantage and cause a near endless amount of options for the D to have to defend.

I know it's just Madden, but I used to be an unbelievable Madden player and I never left the iformattion. I have a lot of Shanahan in me in that I passed to my backs a fuckload so nobody knew if I was running or passing and couldn't stop my attack. Why don't NFL teams do more shit like this? RBs are the new great weapons across the league.

[Fritz]

Come on, people.

PANIC!!!!

[bobblehead]

Bill Huber @BillHuberSI
LaFleur says they've been a bit "over-reliant" on Adams since his return. Again, he points the finger at himself.

But does he????.....

[pbmax]

But does he????.....

Good question. Did he point 4 fingers at himself or 4 fingers at someone else.

[Zool]

He’s just being a good leader and taking the fall. NFL players will burn that out of him eventually.