More Banjo: Week 14 vs Chicago

[pbmax]

An offense needs three weapons plus a good QB.

The Packers have Rodgers, Adams and Jones. But Jones isn't always in the game and if forced to pass block is a liability.

Kumerow had a moment in this game, but the fourth option is WAY too irregular to make the Packers offense go like mad.

The zone defense of the Packers is a mess unless you simply don't want to get beat deep.

The pass rush outside of Gary's season highlight, was quite poor at times. Even when the got someone through, Trubisky ran away.

If the Bears had a QB they trusted to throw past the LOS, they'd be dangerous.

Marinez took a reported shot to the face (kicked by a heel I think) but came back. Tramontana was being evaluated for a concussion but made it back.

[esoxx]

That's some bullshit

[esoxx]

Oops, wrong thread

[beveaux1]

Great play by Kumerow. Why doesn't he see more action? He can take some of Allison and Scantling's snaps.

Lazard was solid. Adams didn't have his best game with a couple of drops, but he's the only WR that gets open quickly.

Jones has a nose for the goal line, but didn't do anything between the 20s. He was blown away twice while pass blocking.

No running game to speak of. Field helped to dull the pass rush. Rodgers was good on 3 drives. Not good on all the others.

OL pass blocked well, but got no traction in the running game except on short yardage plays.

TEs were invisible, pretty much.

Typical Packer offense.

[MadtownPacker]

Seemed universal enough esoxx.

Maybe its just my belief in adjusting to the moment but the game went about how it should have. I didn’t get it here but used the game tracker and game thread to follow. The emotions of the thread are always like play-by-play at a loony bin. So I get a vibe how the game is going. Hated rival, shitty weather, etc all good. The bears had came in reeling off some wins. Packers put a stop to it and got a crucial victory setting up well for a bye. This is a good week.

[beveaux1]

Defense was infuriating. Played well for the majority of the game until the 4th quarter when they played exclusively zone.

They can't play zone!!

Middle zone always open. Without a pass rush, and without Trubisky at QB, we lose this game. We didn't have a pass rush.

Good job stopping the run. Trubisky not ready for prime time.

Martinez might have played his best game of the year. Clark did.

This defense should be so much better than they are. I think they have the players and the first 3 quarters showed their potential.

[SMBASS]

#Packers five possessions after going up 21-3: 18 plays, 9 yards, 5 punts.
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) December 15, 2019

[Fosco33]

Is this the worst 11 win packer team ever?

[Zool]

Is this the worst 11 win packer team ever?

The most inconsistent for sure

[yetisnowman]

#Packers five possessions after going up 21-3: 18 plays, 9 yards, 5 punts.
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) December 15, 2019


These are the kind of numbers that imo put to rest the whole, "a win's a win " mentality. The Bears aren't very good. And we gave them great opportunities to win, by simply being inept for 20 min of game time in the 2nd half offensively. Of course I'm happy they won, but that was an embarrassingly bad, long stretch of the game. They have had a lot of those stretches. Sure they can barely get by bad teams, but if our defense has to hold teams like SF, SEA, NO, MIN, DAL, etc to <20 pts to win, that's not an encouraging formula in the playoffs.

[SMBASS]

Agree Yeti. 9 yards in 18 plays when you have a chance to put the game away is almost inconceivably inept. Hell, you could have run a QB sneak 18 times in a row and picked up more than 9 total yards. This O can be incredibly bad during long stretches of games. I don't even know how those numbers are possible with a supposedly all time NFL great QB under center. We'll get our ass handed to us early in the playoffs if that happens again. The, "Lambeau Mystique" has been gone for many, many years so playing at home doesn't make much of a difference anymore.

[pbmax]

These are the kind of numbers that imo put to rest the whole, "a win's a win " mentality. The Bears aren't very good. And we gave them great opportunities to win, by simply being inept for 20 min of game time in the 2nd half offensively. Of course I'm happy they won, but that was an embarrassingly bad, long stretch of the game. They have had a lot of those stretches. Sure they can barely get by bad teams, but if our defense has to hold teams like SF, SEA, NO, MIN, DAL, etc to <20 pts to win, that's not an encouraging formula in the playoffs.

The Bears do have a great D. And got Hicks back. They were going to win some drives eventually. Still 11 more points than first game between them.

[Joemailman]

People ready to jump off a bridge because of what happened in the 4th quarter might keep in mind that the 49ers who blew out the Packers lost at home to the 4-9 Falcons. And the Rams who were supposedly on a roll lost to a Cowboy team that had lost 3 in a row including last week to the Bears. And the Packers beat the Bears who had won 3 in a row. Few teams in the NFL are consistently excellent. But 11-3 is excellent no matter who you played.

[texaspackerbacker]

Early in the game, it seemed like our D was back to where it was early in the season - second half, not so much. The problems we generally have with TEs weren't there today. It seemed like the Packers played a lot more zone than usual, something I was hoping for.

Probably I'm Rodgers' biggest supporter in here, but I'd say he made a really dumb move when he could have run for a first down and instead missed on a pass to Tonyan - even if it was Tonyan's fault. That seemed to change the momentum. Also, getting sacked and taking them out of FG range was pretty bad. All in all, though, he was still his excellent self. The O Line was better than usual pass blocking most of the game, but not as good late. The run blocking was bad all game, but a lot of that was tough Bear D.

This playing just good enough to win is getting old, but it's a helluva lot better than losing.

[pbmax]

Early in the game, it seemed like our D was back to where it was early in the season - second half, not so much. The problems we generally have with TEs weren't there today. It seemed like the Packers played a lot more zone than usual, something I was hoping for.

Probably I'm Rodgers' biggest supporter in here, but I'd say he made a really dumb move when he could have run for a first down and instead missed on a pass to Tonyan - even if it was Tonyan's fault. That seemed to change the momentum. Also, getting sacked and taking them out of FG range was pretty bad. All in all, though, he was still his excellent self. The O Line was better than usual pass blocking most of the game, but not as good late. The run blocking was bad all game, but a lot of that was tough Bear D.

This playing just good enough to win is getting old, but it's a helluva lot better than losing.

I think he has been rooting for Tonyan like he was rooting for Lazard to get some snaps. But I agree, it was a poor decision. Sometimes you just need a first down.

[Joemailman]

Defense was infuriating. Played well for the majority of the game until the 4th quarter when they played exclusively zone.

They can't play zone!!

Middle zone always open. Without a pass rush, and without Trubisky at QB, we lose this game. We didn't have a pass rush.

Good job stopping the run. Trubisky not ready for prime time.

Martinez might have played his best game of the year. Clark did.

This defense should be so much better than they are. I think they have the players and the first 3 quarters showed their potential.

I do think the defense has gotten better. I think they got a bit gassed there in the 4th quarter. 5 straight 3 and outs by your offense can do that. And as someone who works outside, I can say that being out in very cold weather does sap your energy.

[Fritz]

I think he has been rooting for Tonyan like he was rooting for Lazard to get some snaps. But I agree, it was a poor decision. Sometimes you just need a first down.

Another really, really bad decision was not throwing the ball away and getting called for getting grounded, which cost the team about a 49 yard field goal try. Rodgers still thinks he's got the spring in his legs that he had when he was 31 and can get away from defenders, but it's not happening like that so often any more. Really poor decision.

He also missed Jimmy Graham, who was open, by not lofting the ball and instead put it on a line - straight into a Bear defender's hands. Luckily the guy dropped it.

I don't think Rodgers is making up for the loss of physical gifts by playing smarter.

[run pMc]

Defense played pretty well for most of the game; I thought they relaxed when they went up 21-3 and started to play more prevent-style D. Anthony Miller started to kill them when they did.
Also, Trubisky didn't throw downfield in the 1st half. Nagy was clearly trying to get him confident and going. They did a nice job vs. the run, and didn't get killed by TE's, but CHI doesn't have anyone healthy who is a significant threat. Alexander tackled well, and with Tramon getting hurt King gutted through his 500 injuries to play. The last two plays gave me some heartburn.

It was big play or bust for most of their drives. That they couldn't even get 3 off the Lowry pick drove me crazy -- that was their chance to put the game out of reach IMO. CHI D played pretty well, especially the front 7. Buster Skrine got picked on and if it wasn't Adams it was a surprise. No A.Jones in the passing game - and only 13 carries - and MVS is in a major slump. The WRs had several bad drops (MVS, Adams twice, etc). Rodgers started off accurate and got worse as the game went on, took a bad sack, and had a grounding penalty. Overall he played ok and clearly outplayed Trubisky. At least they tried to keep running the ball vs. going full M3. Very inconsistent game, and the last 20 minutes the offense played poorly IMO.

ST didn't hurt them, Ervin played fine. Had a couple of good returns they could've done a better job capitalizing on. Hurt his hand which is why Tramon was back there getting his bell rung by Patterson. Mason didn't have much to do and JK punted fine. Coverage on Cohen/Patterson was mostly good enough.

Division games are rivalry games, especially when it's vs. the Bears, so I feel like you almost have to throw everything else out and just figure it's going to be a close and ugly game (which it was). Yards were earned, not given. I thought the Packers played like the better team overall but they have lots of warts.

Happy they are 11-3 but they play more like an 8-6 team.

[run pMc]

Also, they knocked the Bears out of the playoffs. Again. :)

[pbmax]

Another really, really bad decision was not throwing the ball away and getting called for getting grounded, which cost the team about a 49 yard field goal try. Rodgers still thinks he's got the spring in his legs that he had when he was 31 and can get away from defenders, but it's not happening like that so often any more. Really poor decision.

One of his sacks made some sense rather than throw away and stop the clock.

But yeah, the grounding call was brutal. Bulaga I think got beat very on an inside move which is happening all too much. Rodgers moved but not enough.

Which is strange that Mack did not have a bigger game.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Great play by Kumerow. Why doesn't he see more action? He can take some of Allison and Scantling's snaps.

Lazard was solid. Adams didn't have his best game with a couple of drops, but he's the only WR that gets open quickly.

Jones has a nose for the goal line, but didn't do anything between the 20s. He was blown away twice while pass blocking.

No running game to speak of. Field helped to dull the pass rush. Rodgers was good on 3 drives. Not good on all the others.

OL pass blocked well, but got no traction in the running game except on short yardage plays.

TEs were invisible, pretty much.

Typical Packer offense.

As far as I am concerned, Kumerow can have all of Allison and Scantling's snaps

[pbmax]

As far as I am concerned, Kumerow can have all of Allison and Scantling's snaps

Kumerow might be the answer to getting Rodgers to choose the shorter throw since he trusts him.

[texaspackerbacker]

I've completely given up on Allison too, but Valdez-Scantling is so fast and big that he is worth developing for a year or so in the hope that he shapes up. I've finally come around to the idea that they should draft a WR early, maybe second round - get a real speed guy who can actually catch the ball. I'll reprise something I've said previously, that they should make Lazard a TE. Tonyan doesn't seem to be developing very quick, Sternberger has been a big nothing, and the two oldies are just getting older. It seems like Lazard at times is kinda a de facto TE already based on blocking assignments.

Aaron Jones' pass blocking deficiency: I think maybe some teaching might fix that. He didn't have his feet under him right - leaning too far back. A lot of fairly small guys pass block just fine, and he's certainly strong and athletic enough.

Congrats to the short arm guy for reaching up and grabbing a pick - some really good hands on the end of those short arms. It happened, though, because he got no push in pass rush and just happened to be stuck in the exact right place.

Khalil Mack is starting to look like the last Packer years of Clay Matthews - a few good plays but no consistency. I'm glad it was the Bears that gave up two first rounders for him, not the Packers.

Amos > Clinton-Dix by a large margin.

I've had a lot higher opinion of Trubisky than most in here. It is scary that he is beginning to come around. However, by the time he is good, their D and the rest of the team likely will have deteriorated to well known BSS status (Bears Still Suck).

[pbmax]

I

I've had a lot higher opinion of Trubisky than most in here. It is scary that he is beginning to come around. However, by the time he is good, their D and the rest of the team likely will have deteriorated to well known BSS status (Bears Still Suck).

When they let him throw down the middle of the field (versus a zone) he looked good.

[MadtownPacker]

I think Kumerow should start next to Adams because he is white like Jordy Nelson was.

[pbmax]

I think Kumerow should start next to Adams because he is white like Jordy Nelson was.

Nelson - Kumerow

Jones - Adams

Cobb - Lazard?

[beveaux1]

Not ready to go all-in for Kumerow. Remember, he had Dix trying to tackle him. Can't help but think if he's good, why isn't he playing?

They took Lazard off the practice squad and he made an immediate impact. Has Kumerow ever caught more than two in a game?

I'm going to put this out there. Three of our present WRs need to be replaced from the roster by next year. Adams won't be replaced.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a free agent, an early draft pick, and a later draft pick. That would be similar to our OLB situation last year.

Anyway, food for thought.

[MadtownPacker]

Nelson - Kumerow

Jones - Adams

Cobb - Lazard?We talking SB here man!! Has to Jennings not Cobb.

[texaspackerbacker]

Nelson - Kumerow

Jones - Adams

Cobb - Lazard?

There's a joke there somewhere about bigger being better.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not ready to go all-in for Kumerow. Remember, he had Dix trying to tackle him. Can't help but think if he's good, why isn't he playing?

They took Lazard off the practice squad and he made an immediate impact. Has Kumerow ever caught more than two in a game?

I'm going to put this out there. Three of our present WRs need to be replaced from the roster by next year. Adams won't be replaced.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a free agent, an early draft pick, and a later draft pick. That would be similar to our OLB situation last year.

Anyway, food for thought.

Are you counting that Grant guy who never plays? The only one I'd get rid of is Allison. Adams (obviously), Lazard, Kumerow, MVS - in that order - are worth keeping. With St. Brown presumably coming back healthy, that's one opening for maybe a second round draft pick.

[pbmax]

KUMEROW TIME!


https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1206684249073635334

[Fritz]

KUMEROW TIME!


https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1206684249073635334

They need someone to step up, whether it's Kumerow or Tonyan or MVS snapping out of his funk. You stop Aaron Jones and Davante Adams and you've stopped the Packers.

Rodgers played really well when he had to spread it around while Adams was out, and that juiced things up. But now it's back to the same ol' same ol' thing. I like me some Adams, too, but how about looking elsewhere, too? Spread the love, baby!

[red]

KUMEROW TIME!


https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1206684249073635334

This is the same type of bullshit McCarthy use to say

YOURE THE HEAD FUCKING COACH!!!!!!!

If you think he should be on the field more, then fucking do it, don’t just say you need to do it

[red]

Kid coach also said the Rodgers has total control over what he wants to do at the line, he can call whatever he wants. And the coach has no problem with that

So this is why we are still seeing the exact same shit that doesn’t work as we have seen for a few years now

Why did we even hire an offensive minded coach if Rodgers can just do whatever he wants?
Now we know why fat mike was up getting happy endings during offensive team meetings. He didn’t have to be there, because they didn’t need to have a meeting, because Rodgers will just do whatever he wants on game day

If this is gonna continue to happen, then someone needs to sit next to him during film time and tell him that 90% of the shit he thinks he see’s is wrong, and that he’s not seeing other things pre snap like unblocked pass rushers

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have to say what a fun season this has been. I wasn't expecting much.

This is the first year my daughters have watched most of the games with me. They are hooked and get nervous before the games. I'm glad they are 11-3 and not 3-11. This season may have hooked them forever on Packers football. Both had multiple Packers jerseys on their Christmas lists. I got them two each - #33 and #26 for older daughter and #17 and #23 for younger daughter.

[texaspackerbacker]

What needs to happen more than anything else going into the playoffs is to get back to playing defense like we did at the start of the season. Early on against the Bears, as well as part of the time against the Redskins, it seemed like things were moving that way, but then the weakness of our DBs started to show again, and our D Line kinda backslid too. The big threat would seem to be playing the Niners at their place, but since they beat the Packers so bad, they have looked very beatable.

[Radagast]

What needs to happen more than anything else going into the playoffs is to get back to playing defense like we did at the start of the season. Early on against the Bears, as well as part of the time against the Redskins, it seemed like things were moving that way, but then the weakness of our DBs started to show again, and our D Line kinda backslid too. The big threat would seem to be playing the Niners at their place, but since they beat the Packers so bad, they have looked very beatable.


It's a lng season and the strengths/weaknesses of of teams are known to all by this point of a season. A defense must either be overpoweringly physical or tricky with their play calls. GB is not a more physical defense than most, so slight of hand/more deception serves best. It is harder than just being more physical. Hiding a defense from most QBs and Coaches is a true test of a teams defense. Also, young additions and 1st year GB FAs must learn to work together as a unit and IMO GB has done very well developing a great defensive chemistry.

GB's greatest weakness lies with it's WR and TE play. Offensive Right Tackle as well as WR should be the primary focus when the season concludes. I would like to see GB draft WR CeeDee Lamb (Oklahoma) with their 1st Draft pick.

[pbmax]

I have to say what a fun season this has been. I wasn't expecting much.

This is the first year my daughters have watched most of the games with me. They are hooked and get nervous before the games. I'm glad they are 11-3 and not 3-11. This season may have hooked them forever on Packers football. Both had multiple Packers jerseys on their Christmas lists. I got them two each - #33 and #26 for older daughter and #17 and #23 for younger daughter.

They, or you, made some good choices.

[pbmax]

Bears lateral play with GPS tags.


https://media.giphy.com/media/kGRQeB7g57H2amHmdJ/giphy.gif

[texaspackerbacker]

Is that real? I mean scientifically accurate?

What I was thinking watching the replay is that even if the TE did lateral it one more time, Tramon Williams had the path of Cohen or whoever it was blocked from the end zone. The graphic above kinda shows the same thing, and Savage might have been there too.

[Joemailman]

Bears lateral play with GPS tags.


https://media.giphy.com/media/kGRQeB7g57H2amHmdJ/giphy.gif

Am I right that if the ball made it to the endzone and the Bears recovered it, it would not have been a TD because of rules regarding fumbles in the last 2 minutes?

[pbmax]

Is that real? I mean scientifically accurate?

What I was thinking watching the replay is that even if the TE did lateral it one more time, Tramon Williams had the path of Cohen or whoever it was blocked from the end zone. The graphic above kinda shows the same thing, and Savage might have been there too.

Its pretty accurate. Suppose to be within inches.

[pbmax]

If they had a good handle earlier 49 could have lateraled to 12 and it would have been trouble if 17 could block.

Also notice 55 (Smith) loafing around when Clark was all over the play.

[Joemailman]

The Packer Ranter
@PackerRanter
·
Dec 15
Smart defense by Pettine. Let Trubisky look good enough so that the Bears keep him around.

[Joemailman]

Chandon Sullivan had a heck of a game Sunday. https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/17/packers-db-chandon-sullivan-impresses-over-56-snaps-vs-bears/

He could be the heir apparent to Tramon Williams who is a free agent after this year and not worth the 6M cap hit of this year. Sullivan will be an ERFA.

[TravisWilliams23]

Am I right that if the ball made it to the endzone and the Bears recovered it, it would not have been a TD because of rules regarding fumbles in the last 2 minutes?

From what I read, only the player who fumbled, # 49 in this instance, could have recovered the ball in the endzone for a touchdown. Otherwise, it would have
been placed at the original spot of the fumble.

[run pMc]

Also notice 55 (Smith) loafing around when Clark was all over the play.

Check out Corderelle Patterson on the play.
That was an ugly play that almost worked. Once they got inside the 20 I got worried.

[call_me_ishmael]

What happened to Tony Brown? Wasn't he the earlier season starter on the outside when they moved Alexander to the slot? I seem to recall Kadar Hollman having a great summer too and people thinking he was a future starter in the league. Promising CBs from Gooter so far.

[Guiness]

If they had a good handle earlier 49 could have lateraled to 12 and it would have been trouble if 17 could block.

Also notice 55 (Smith) loafing around when Clark was all over the play.

Great graphic!

The other Smith (91) just missed an opportunity to end the play a lot earlier.

[run pMc]

What happened to Tony Brown? Wasn't he the earlier season starter on the outside when they moved Alexander to the slot? I seem to recall Kadar Hollman having a great summer too and people thinking he was a future starter in the league. Promising CBs from Gooter so far.

Brown has been hurt; as for Hollman, I've been wondering the same thing. Usually those rookie guys get some snaps by now.

[pbmax]

Sullivan has passed all the others by.

[Fritz]

Sullivan has passed all the others by.

Yes, I like him. He's not afraid. I did think Hollmon would get on the field by now, but apparently he's as raw as a hooker working overtime.

Josh Jackson looks . . . mired. On the depth chart and when he tries to move on the field. I wonder if Brown will contribute more if he gets healthier.

And really, what the hell happened to Mt. Adams? He was a major contributor early on, but now he's rarely, if ever, on the field. I see he had about 5-6 snaps per game for about four games prior to Chicago; he played all of twelve snaps against da Bears. Is his shoulder just messed up, or is his head messed up again? When he's on his game, the dude can take up space.

[Joemailman]

Sullivan has passed all the others by.

Nice rundown with video of Sullivan's key plays against Bears. https://www.packers.com/news/what-you-might-ve-missed-anywhere-and-everywhere

[call_me_ishmael]

Yes, I like him. He's not afraid. I did think Hollmon would get on the field by now, but apparently he's as raw as a hooker working overtime.

Josh Jackson looks . . . mired. On the depth chart and when he tries to move on the field. I wonder if Brown will contribute more if he gets healthier.

And really, what the hell happened to Mt. Adams? He was a major contributor early on, but now he's rarely, if ever, on the field. I see he had about 5-6 snaps per game for about four games prior to Chicago; he played all of twelve snaps against da Bears. Is his shoulder just messed up, or is his head messed up again? When he's on his game, the dude can take up space.

Mt Adams lost his starting spot to Lancaster according to the official Packers depth chart - which is to say, not good.

[MadtownPacker]

Bears lateral play with GPS tags.


https://media.giphy.com/media/kGRQeB7g57H2amHmdJ/giphy.gifThat shit is fascinating! I feel like a cat stuck on stupid watching it. Trubisiki made some great moves when he got the ball back. It looked crazy on video but this gif really shows how close it came to working.

Where you get this PB and can we get some for GB offense pass plays?

[Gotarace]

That shit is fascinating! I feel like a cat stuck on stupid watching it. Trubisiki made some great moves when he got the ball back. It looked crazy on video but this gif really shows how close it came to working.

Where you get this PB and can we get some for GB offense pass plays?
I agree Mad...It would be cool to breakdown complete games like this...

[MadtownPacker]

Yeah would be sweet as Egg Nog to say “nah fuck you the WRs were all open!” and “Look at the GPS replay mofo!”. :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

LOL at Big Z for us and Patterson for the Bears.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

91 (P-Smith) would be benched and then eventually cut by Bruce Arians for his sorry attempt/effort at tackling Tru on that last play. Watch the actual film.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHL62peMOpM

[Freak Out]

Nice rundown with video of Sullivan's key plays against Bears. https://www.packers.com/news/what-you-might-ve-missed-anywhere-and-everywhere

Good stuff.

[Joemailman]

91 (P-Smith) would be benched and then eventually cut by Bruce Arians for his sorry attempt/effort at tackling Tru on that last play. Watch the actual film.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHL62peMOpM

I watched P Smith by stopping and starting the video. It looks like he reached in like he was trying to strip the ball. Which would be a really stupid thing to do. Just tackle him and the game's over.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I watched P Smith by stopping and starting the video. It looks like he reached in like he was trying to strip the ball. Which would be a really stupid thing to do. Just tackle him and the game's over.

Perhaps he was gassed pass rushing, but his hustling during the lateral fiasco, or lack thereof, was Vernon Hargreaves-esque.

[pbmax]

That shit is fascinating! I feel like a cat stuck on stupid watching it. Trubisiki made some great moves when he got the ball back. It looked crazy on video but this gif really shows how close it came to working.

Where you get this PB and can we get some for GB offense pass plays?

It’s either ESPN or NFLGSIS data and you need to be a reporter or team to access it.

So you just get what people want to share on the internet.

[hoosier]

Patterson (84) showed some nice effort for the Bares on that play :-)

[run pMc]

Yeah I noticed that too. If anyone should be running the ball in a broken field, it should be Cohen or Patterson. Weird 84 wasn't involved in the play at all... but his lack of hustle more or less determined that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

At least, PSmith gave some effort. ZSmith stood around.