Winners and Losers Packers Lions

[KYPack]

Let's get this thread back in gear

Winners

1. Aaron Jones. Tough gutty dude who manages to have swag while being humble. Got 100 yards on 25 carries while nursing the hand injury.

2 Co-winners second spot Allen Lazard and Davante Adams. They helped get us back in gear in a grim, grim ball game. Each guy got scores when shit looked awful.

3, Blake Martinez. The PR whipping boy was key to our win. Lead team in tackles (again) and came up with a key pick and 22 yard return.

Loser(s)

Get out the fire extinguisher and hose half the team down. Will pick the guy that I love to hate. Graham drags that huge ticket to the pay window and drops that first pass? Him Him, screw him.

Jimmy Graham that is.

[Joemailman]

Didn't see the game, but it sounds like Veldheer and Patrick did a nice job coming off bench to replace injured Bulaga and Linsley. Seen a number of Packers games over the years that turned real ugly because O-linemen coming off the bench couldn't get the job done.

[pbmax]

Rodgers on the Loser list for the first half at least.

Allison had a fumble again.

[Bretsky]

Rodgers on the Loser list for the first half at least.

Allison had a fumble again.

Rodgers definitely on the Loser List. If he plays average the first half we have a lead

I'd add MVS and Allison and Whitewater Jesus; MVS has been such a disappointment; Allison...didn't have expectations there. WWJ just doesn't get open


AARON JONES.....HUGE WINNER. He's our playmaker.

Definitely would add the replacement OL as winners as well

[texaspackerbacker]

Pretty much the whole team played like losers today, yet they ended up the winner - again. I guess that's called playing down to the competition. After several games of good D, they were back to playing like shit again. Kenny Clark did not have a good game; The two Northwestern porkers, after not looking quite so bad the past couple of weeks, were back to crap today. Preston Smith kinda disappeared. I've read/heard people say the DBs played good; The Corners sure didn't - IMO - neither King nor Alexander. Amos, Williams, and Savage were ok, I guess, but not much more than that. On offense, Jimmy Graham set the tone early hahahaha. The whole O Line was way more bad than good. Valdez-Scantling looked like a damn project player being allowed to play because the game was meaningless. This is the worst I have ever seen Aaron Rodgers play since he became the starting QB all those years ago - yet he ended up with well over 300 yards and two nice TD passes.

Winners? I guess Aaron Jones, although he has established a really high standard this season, and he wasn't quite up to that today. Ditto that for Zakarius and Lazard too. Martinez made a couple great plays, but damn, he was out of position a lot of times on those gash runs. Crosby? Did my eyes deceive me, or did that walk off FG clip the upright slightly?

A win is a win is a win is a win.

[ThunderDan]

Rodgers on the Loser list for the first half at least.

Allison had a fumble again.

But he had the smarts to kick it out of bounds to save the possession.;-);-);-):)

[red]

Didn't see the game, but it sounds like Veldheer and Patrick did a nice job coming off bench to replace injured Bulaga and Linsley. Seen a number of Packers games over the years that turned real ugly because O-linemen coming off the bench couldn't get the job done.

it sure didn't look like the o-line lost any beats when those two came in

nice to have dependable o-line depth

[George Cumby]

The back up center was stoning his man.

[woodbuck27]

Aaron Jones, Devante Adam's and Allen Lazard were all good.

Aaron Rodgers looked either uptight or did he have a virus?

[George Cumby]

Aaron Rodgers looked either uptight or did he have a virus?

The virus is called "I'vebeeninjuredthelastthreeseasonsmybodyisnolonger respondingthewayIwantittoIdon'thavethestrengthormo bilityIusedtoageistakingitstollitis" and he's had it all year.

[Vincenzo]

Pretty much the whole team played like losers today, yet they ended up the winner - again. I guess that's called playing down to the competition. After several games of good D, they were back to playing like shit again. Kenny Clark did not have a good game; The two Northwestern porkers, after not looking quite so bad the past couple of weeks, were back to crap today. Preston Smith kinda disappeared. I've read/heard people say the DBs played good; The Corners sure didn't - IMO - neither King nor Alexander. Amos, Williams, and Savage were ok, I guess, but not much more than that. On offense, Jimmy Graham set the tone early hahahaha. The whole O Line was way more bad than good. Valdez-Scantling looked like a damn project player being allowed to play because the game was meaningless. This is the worst I have ever seen Aaron Rodgers play since he became the starting QB all those years ago - yet he ended up with well over 300 yards and two nice TD passes.

Winners? I guess Aaron Jones, although he has established a really high standard this season, and he wasn't quite up to that today. Ditto that for Zakarius and Lazard too. Martinez made a couple great plays, but damn, he was out of position a lot of times on those gash runs. Crosby? Did my eyes deceive me, or did that walk off FG clip the upright slightly?

A win is a win is a win is a win.
I hear you but the next team we play won’t be the Lions, Redskins or Giants.
We’re probably gonna end up playing a team like the New Orleans Saints who have lots of weapons and a much better D.
If the Packers don’t significantly raise their level of play on January 12th it’s gonna be an ugly day.

[pbmax]

Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
Green Bay and the worst 13-3 (or better) teams in DVOA history (since 1985). The 1999 Colts are the only 13-3 team to come out worse than this year's Packers by DVOA.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENDFVh3XsAInoDg?format=png&name=small

[Fosco33]

So ARod finished w/ 4002 yards.

[hoosier]

So based on past performances, I'm seeing that Packers should lose in the AFC divisional round (see San Fran 2011).

This has been the strangest year for Packer football I've ever seen. Weirder than 2007, when they came out of nowhere to win 13 and were then gifted the NFCCG at home after Dallas lost and then Favre threw that gift away. I am equally expecting them to get blown out in the divisional round or to make a deep run after stringing together a few more improbable wins.

[beveaux1]

So based on past performances, I'm seeing that Packers should lose in the AFC divisional round (see San Fran 2011).

This has been the strangest year for Packer football I've ever seen. Weirder than 2007, when they came out of nowhere to win 13 and were then gifted the NFCCG at home after Dallas lost and then Favre threw that gift away. I am equally expecting them to get blown out in the divisional round or to make a deep run after stringing together a few more improbable wins.

I don't think we'll get blown out playing at home in the Divisional round, but I'm not necessarily predicting a win. I think it will be a one score game. If they reach the NFCCG, all bets are off.

[Cheesehead Craig]

So based on past performances, I'm seeing that Packers should lose in the AFC divisional round (see San Fran 2011).

This has been the strangest year for Packer football I've ever seen. Weirder than 2007, when they came out of nowhere to win 13 and were then gifted the NFCCG at home after Dallas lost and then Favre threw that gift away. I am equally expecting them to get blown out in the divisional round or to make a deep run after stringing together a few more improbable wins.

Completely disagree. At worst, they will lose in the NFC divisional round.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hey, at least five of the nine teams won a playoff game.

Who had the worst DVOA to make the Super Bowl (not just 13-3 teams)?

[Fritz]

I hear you but the next team we play won’t be the Lions, Redskins or Giants.
We’re probably gonna end up playing a team like the New Orleans Saints who have lots of weapons and a much better D.
If the Packers don’t significantly raise their level of play on January 12th it’s gonna be an ugly day.



Winners:

The Motown Cheerleaders. Whew. Young, twenty-something, athletic women with muscular yet feminine legs, thin waists, long, wavy hair, beautiful bouncing breasts. Outside of about five or six plays, that was the best part of the game for me.

The offensive line. I don't care what Tex says, that offensive line played great yesterday, at least in pass pro. Rodgers had all day to throw the ball most of the time. The run blocking was not as good, but I will say those two-yard runs from Jones in the first half became four and five yard runs in the second half.

Aaron Jones. He pretty much won the game with that last drive. He ran hard, blocked, he did it all. And then he kept the ball secure when Patricia was calling timeouts to force GB to run a couple plays before trying that winning field goal.

Davante Adams. He's a professional. No wonder Rodgers trusts him. You get him the ball, he catches it. Okay, he had a drop that would've been a touchdown, but okay. If I were an opposing coach, I'd focus on stopping him and Aaron Jones.

Lazard. He's clearly, clearly the number two receiver now. Just keep him on the field, man.

Losers:

Rodgers, Rodgers, Rodgers. I cannot say enough how bad, how off, his long throws were. I saw maybe five deep throws that would've resulted in big, big, gains, in which Rodgers overthrew wide open receivers. For most of the game it was overthrows. No air under the ball, throwing rockets. He overthrew Jones on what would have been a touchdown in the first half. He overthrew Adams on what would have been a touchdown. He overthrew Jimmy Graham, who was actually open on a long route. He overthrew MVS on another long route. Then Rodgers overcompensated in the fourth quarter, and put too much air under the ball and threw short. When he had Kumerow wide open, late in the game, about three steps ahead of his defender, Rodgers underthrew it and the defender made a play. That would've won the game. He also underthrew on his pick, and his man had a step on the defender there, too. Even his short throws were off - he threw bullets to guys five yards away. I walked out of Ford Field thinking that if the Packers see a QB they love in the next draft, they ought to take the guy. Rodgers seems lost in his own head. He's got no touch, his long accuracy is gone, gone, gone.

MVS. The guy simply looks lost out there. Bench that poor kid, and give Ryan Grant a chance.

Geronimo Allison. Dropped a poor-but-catchable ball from Rodgers, let the ball get punched out late in the game.

Preston Smith. We need to send out an all-points bulletin on this guy. He disappeared.

[MadtownPacker]

Nice recap Fritz, bit you are still on the losers list for not getting closeup of the motown mamacitas.

[pbmax]

Pics or it didn't happen!

[Vincenzo]

Aaron Schatz @FO_ASchatz
Green Bay and the worst 13-3 (or better) teams in DVOA history (since 1985). The 1999 Colts are the only 13-3 team to come out worse than this year's Packers by DVOA.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENDFVh3XsAInoDg?format=png&name=small
Wow! pbmax, do you care to explain DVOA and how it relates to the Packers this year?
Thanks

[CaptainKickass]

Winners: The Motown Cheerleaders. Whew. Young, twenty-something, athletic women with muscular yet feminine legs, thin waists, long, wavy hair, beautiful bouncing breasts. Outside of about five or six plays, that was the best part of the game for me.


Pics or it didn't happen!

Best I could do on short notice

https://i.postimg.cc/ncbvy1Zv/Lion-Cheer-16.jpg

[Bretsky]

Winners:

The Motown Cheerleaders. Whew. Young, twenty-something, athletic women with muscular yet feminine legs, thin waists, long, wavy hair, beautiful bouncing breasts. Outside of about five or six plays, that was the best part of the game for me.

The offensive line. I don't care what Tex says, that offensive line played great yesterday, at least in pass pro. Rodgers had all day to throw the ball most of the time. The run blocking was not as good, but I will say those two-yard runs from Jones in the first half became four and five yard runs in the second half.

Aaron Jones. He pretty much won the game with that last drive. He ran hard, blocked, he did it all. And then he kept the ball secure when Patricia was calling timeouts to force GB to run a couple plays before trying that winning field goal.

Davante Adams. He's a professional. No wonder Rodgers trusts him. You get him the ball, he catches it. Okay, he had a drop that would've been a touchdown, but okay. If I were an opposing coach, I'd focus on stopping him and Aaron Jones.

Lazard. He's clearly, clearly the number two receiver now. Just keep him on the field, man.

Losers:

Rodgers, Rodgers, Rodgers. I cannot say enough how bad, how off, his long throws were. I saw maybe five deep throws that would've resulted in big, big, gains, in which Rodgers overthrew wide open receivers. For most of the game it was overthrows. No air under the ball, throwing rockets. He overthrew Jones on what would have been a touchdown in the first half. He overthrew Adams on what would have been a touchdown. He overthrew Jimmy Graham, who was actually open on a long route. He overthrew MVS on another long route. Then Rodgers overcompensated in the fourth quarter, and put too much air under the ball and threw short. When he had Kumerow wide open, late in the game, about three steps ahead of his defender, Rodgers underthrew it and the defender made a play. That would've won the game. He also underthrew on his pick, and his man had a step on the defender there, too. Even his short throws were off - he threw bullets to guys five yards away. I walked out of Ford Field thinking that if the Packers see a QB they love in the next draft, they ought to take the guy. Rodgers seems lost in his own head. He's got no touch, his long accuracy is gone, gone, gone.

MVS. The guy simply looks lost out there. Bench that poor kid, and give Ryan Grant a chance.

Geronimo Allison. Dropped a poor-but-catchable ball from Rodgers, let the ball get punched out late in the game.

Preston Smith. We need to send out an all-points bulletin on this guy. He disappeared.



Speaking of somebody who disappeared ...............

[Fritz]

Speaking of somebody who disappeared ...............

????

[texaspackerbacker]

I hear you but the next team we play won’t be the Lions, Redskins or Giants.
We’re probably gonna end up playing a team like the New Orleans Saints who have lots of weapons and a much better D.
If the Packers don’t significantly raise their level of play on January 12th it’s gonna be an ugly day.

hahahaha It might be the Vikings. We inexplicably played down to those you mentioned. If the Packers play like that, yeah, it could get ugly. I don't expect that, though - not against the Saints anyway.

[MadtownPacker]

????
Captain scooped you on the pics man!!

[Bretsky]

????

Your man !

Wait, does somebody have to appear first to disapear ?

[pbmax]

Wow! pbmax, do you care to explain DVOA and how it relates to the Packers this year?
Thanks

DVOA stands for Defense adjusted Value Over Average. +7 is good but it’s more normally associated with a 10-6 squad than 13-3. It’s calculated by looking at each play the team participated in.

If you go to their site, footballoutsiders.com, you can see under efficiency numbers that by another measure, the expected wins for the Packers were 9.9.

[Vincenzo]

DVOA stands for Defense adjusted Value Over Average. +7 is good but it’s more normally associated with a 10-6 squad than 13-3. It’s calculated by looking at each play the team participated in.

If you go to their site, footballoutsiders.com, you can see under efficiency numbers that by another measure, the expected wins for the Packers were 9.9.
You can’t ignore historical data like this, it’s kinda like the elephant in the room. For me it’s a reality check reminding me of something that deep down I already know. In other words, this 2019 Packer team is much different from the 2010 Packer team. I’d be curious to know what the DVOA was for that 2010 team.

[pbmax]

You can’t ignore historical data like this, it’s kinda like the elephant in the room. For me it’s a reality check reminding me of something that deep down I already know. In other words, this 2019 Packer team is much different from the 2010 Packer team. I’d be curious to know what the DVOA was for that 2010 team.

4th in the League at +23

I wouldn't worry too much about historical precedent, its a small sample size and its not clear that at this point, with a bye, it makes much difference.

[Vincenzo]

4th in the League at +23

I wouldn't worry too much about historical precedent, its a small sample size and its not clear that at this point, with a bye, it makes much difference.
You just knew that 2010 team was special, they were favoured all season long and even after 6 losses, they were still highly regarded.... not so much so with this year’s team. Pessimism is abound right now, even with a 13-3 record.
What we’re hoping for is this 2019 team blazes a new path and breaks the trend.

[ThunderDan]

You just knew that 2010 team was special, they were favoured all season long and even after 6 losses, they were still highly regarded.... not so much so with this year’s team. Pessimism is abound right now, even with a 13-3 record.
What we’re hoping for is this 2019 team blazes a new path and breaks the trend.

I don't remember that. We were just about on our 7th string OLB and had a ton of guys hurt.

Nick Barnett IR, Morgan Burnett IR, Chillar IR, Finley IR, Grant IR, Harrell IR, Havner IR, Brad Jones IR, Martin IR, Neal IR, Newhouse IR, Poppinga IR, Smith IR, Tauscher IR.

[Vincenzo]

I don't remember that. We were just about on our 7th string OLB and had a ton of guys hurt.

Nick Barnett IR, Morgan Burnett IR, Chillar IR, Finley IR, Grant IR, Harrell IR, Havner IR, Brad Jones IR, Martin IR, Neal IR, Newhouse IR, Poppinga IR, Smith IR, Tauscher IR.
Even with all the injuries the team was favoured almost all season long. Wasn’t that the season when Sir Charles said “we’re underdogs to no one.” (My bad, that was 2012 - never mind).
The team was highly regarded, period. At the beginning of the season they were favoured to win the Super Bowl.
I went to 3 games that season and remember it well.
Even going into the playoffs as the number 6th seed there were still high hopes, despite all those injuries.

[George Cumby]

Even with all the injuries the team was favoured almost all season long. Wasn’t that the season when Sir Charles said “we’re underdogs to no one.” (My bad, that was 2012 - never mind).
The team was highly regarded, period. At the beginning of the season they were favoured to win the Super Bowl.
I went to 3 games that season and remember it well.
Even going into the playoffs as the number 6th seed there were still high hopes, despite all those injuries.


I don't remember them being favored either. I remember all of the injuries and a sense of doom until the playoffs started, then the sense of Destiny built upon each victory.

They were a WC winning the Owl, I don't recall them being super favorites......

[MadScientist]

Loser:
MLF - the game plan was clearly to try to hit deep passes against the Lions, where they have been vulnerable this year, but the receivers aren't great deep threats, and Rodgers touch is not there. It took him way too long to switch out of that and go to something that had a chance. And what the hell happened to the hot reads? Rodgers used to destroy blitzes, now it looks like there is no hot read in the plays and Rodgers gets killed or throws it to the sidelines.

[Vincenzo]

I don't remember them being favored either. I remember all of the injuries and a sense of doom until the playoffs started, then the sense of Destiny built upon each victory.

They were a WC winning the Owl, I don't recall them being super favorites......
You know what, just a little research has me wrong about that, sorry guys. I coulda swore going in to the 2010 season the Pack were odds-on favourites to win the Super Bowl....my bad.

[hoosier]

I don't remember them being favored either. I remember all of the injuries and a sense of doom until the playoffs started, then the sense of Destiny built upon each victory.

They were a WC winning the Owl, I don't recall them being super favorites......

It wasn't till the divisional destruction of Atlanta that you knew they were the team to beat in the NFC, before that Packers probably weren't favored but I think where Vinny might have a point is that they were seen as that underperforming but dangerous team that nobody really wants to face. Remember Lovie playing all his starters in week 17 to try to bump them out of the playoffs? And Aikman declaring them the TNWTF (team nobody wants to face) after they smoked the Giants? Even more in Vinny's defense: GB had the best point differential in the NFC that year, better than Bares, better than Saints, better than 13-3 Falcons.

[Fritz]

Loser:
MLF - the game plan was clearly to try to hit deep passes against the Lions, where they have been vulnerable this year, but the receivers aren't great deep threats, and Rodgers touch is not there. It took him way too long to switch out of that and go to something that had a chance. And what the hell happened to the hot reads? Rodgers used to destroy blitzes, now it looks like there is no hot read in the plays and Rodgers gets killed or throws it to the sidelines.

I agree with the second half of what you wrote, but as for the receivers not being deep threats, well, Rodgers had more than one or two wide open - Aaron Jones in the end zone for one, Kumerow late in the game for another. Rodgers overthrew the first, underthrew the second. And there were others, lots. It's not a great wide receiver group, but there were a few long ones open, but Rodgers could not hit those. He also threw one at Allison's feet and threw another a step behind Tonyan over the middle, allowing the defender to knock it away.

The Lions rarely, rarely blitz - but one got home in the first half. There seemed to be no hot read, no recognition it was coming (even though I told my wife before the play it was going to happen; it was an obvious situation).

As for the pics of the Motown chicks, the Cap'n's will have to do. The ones I took with my Kodak are being developed at a drug store and won't be back for a few weeks.

[Zool]

You know what, just a little research has me wrong about that, sorry guys. I coulda swore going in to the 2010 season the Pack were odds-on favourites to win the Super Bowl....my bad.

I think that was the next season where they steamrolled to 15-1. My memory fades on what happened in the playoffs. It’s best I keep it that way.

[George Cumby]

You know what, just a little research has me wrong about that, sorry guys. I coulda swore going in to the 2010 season the Pack were odds-on favourites to win the Super Bowl....my bad.

This is a Man's response.

:glug:

[George Cumby]

I think that was the next season where they steamrolled to 15-1. My memory fades on what happened in the playoffs. It’s best I keep it that way.


Correct, I too have purged those playoffs from my memory.

[pbmax]

I agree with the second half of what you wrote, but as for the receivers not being deep threats, well, Rodgers had more than one or two wide open - Aaron Jones in the end zone for one, Kumerow late in the game for another. Rodgers overthrew the first, underthrew the second. And there were others, lots. It's not a great wide receiver group, but there were a few long ones open, but Rodgers could not hit those. He also threw one at Allison's feet and threw another a step behind Tonyan over the middle, allowing the defender to knock it away.

The Lions rarely, rarely blitz - but one got home in the first half. There seemed to be no hot read, no recognition it was coming (even though I told my wife before the play it was going to happen; it was an obvious situation).

As for the pics of the Motown chicks, the Cap'n's will have to do. The ones I took with my Kodak are being developed at a drug store and won't be back for a few weeks.

Everyone missed that blitz. No one even waved at the guy pre- or post-snap.

I think Jones moved across the formation but still checked the A gaps before he saw him coming. By then, too late.

[ThunderDan]

Everyone missed that blitz. No one even waved at the guy pre- or post-snap.

I think Jones moved across the formation but still checked the A gaps before he saw him coming. By then, too late.

Wasn’t that the play where the whole line blocked right and the overloaded side was the left? Jones had 2 blitzers running free and he picked up the outside blitzer thinking that the line had to be protecting to the overload.

[pbmax]

Wasn’t that the play where the whole line blocked right and the overloaded side was the left? Jones had 2 blitzes running free and he picked up the outside blitzed thinking that the line had to be protecting to the left.

Could be. I just remember Jones seeing it late and Bulaga not even looking. Could be two different plays as well.

[ThunderDan]

Could be. I just remember Jones seeing it late and Bulaga not even looking. Could be two different plays as well.

I think that is play we both mentioned in the game day thread that they got the protection call completely wrong.

[Fritz]

Yet I saw the blitz coming....hmmm, maybe I'll put in an application for that Cleveland gig.

[Patler]

I think that is play we both mentioned in the game day thread that they got the protection call completely wrong.

Back-up center's mistake?

[ThunderDan]

Back-up center's mistake?

Probably. I just remember 5 guys were rushing 4 from the center over on the Packers left and the whole line blocked right. Jenkins got the guy over the center, Bahk went right and got someone and Aaron Jones was left with 2 free blitzers. And for some reason Jones decided to pick up the outside blitzer. Which doesn’t make sense unless he thought the protection call was going to the left and expected Bahk to pick the inside blitzer up.

[pbmax]

Probably. I just remember 5 guys were rushing 4 from the center over on the Packers left and the whole line blocked right. Jenkins got the guy over the center, Bahk went right and got someone and Aaron Jones was left with 2 free blitzers. And for some reason Jones decided to pick up the outside blitzer. Which doesn’t make sense unless he thought the protection call was going to the left and expected Bahk to pick the inside blitzer up.

I might be thinking of a different play. I remember the free rusher coming from outside Bulga/Veldheer on the right.

Patler's point about Patrick might be a good one. Rodgers is still using that play sheet and he might not have as much time to check protection as he might have with the old offense.

[run pMc]

If you're referring to the incomplete throw to Graham in the end zone at 12:16 in 4Q, Spoon and Leroy cover it nicely in the X's and O's.
They pointed out something I wondered at the time -- why wasn't there a hot route? Anyway, I thought Rodgers threw poorly on anything more than 10 yards, and the receivers didn't help him much either with their drops and route running.

Rodgers has not played well lately, which is a concern. Over the last 8 weeks, he's had TWO games with a rating over 95 -- his comp% and Yds/Att are also down. They have played ugly most of the year and won, but once the competition and stakes get tougher I'm not sure they will be able to do that. Payton, Carroll, Pederson all have SB rings, so MLF has his work cut out for him getting the team ready.

I thought the defense was mentally tired or something; they did enough to win. It helped that they faced a beat up team. If Stafford, Golliday (left w/ concussion) and Hockenson were healthy GB would probably be playing this weekend.