The Green Bay Packers are ....

[Sparkey]

I am reading the narratives about the playoff teams and what their "strength's" are:

For me, I would say that the Packers are battle tested. Both on the road and at home. I see a team that while they might get "punched in the mouth" they rarely collapse and lose focus. They just keep on grinding and doing what they need to do to give themselves a chance come the 4th quarter.

You see teams every year that walk through the season and then in the first playoff game, face some adversity and crumble. Have no idea how things will play out, but it sure is nice to be invested in playoff football again.

[texaspackerbacker]

I read that the Packers are the team with the best record against teams with winning records - 8-1. That, of course, means 2 of our 3 losses were against teams not with winning records.

[beveaux1]

I read that the Packers are the team with the best record against teams with winning records - 8-1. That, of course, means 2 of our 3 losses were against teams not with winning records.

I think our record is 3-2 against teams with winning records. We're 9-1 in one score games.

[Fosco33]

Healthy... think about it. This maybe the healthiest team in a long time in GB.

Inconsistent... they play lights out in all 3 phases but rarely all in the same game. It’s been the only consistent question mark - can ARod and the receivers ‘click’, can the Def play well in between the 20s, etc.

[Bossman641]

In a word, inconsistent.

As far as a strength, have faced some adversity. They shouldn't flinch if down in the playoffs.

[Bretsky]

We're a decent NFL team; in the past I thought we got screwed our of some wins and the breaks did not fall our way. Many note those even out.

They did this year; GB got all the breaks. The calls/balls bounced our way and with no hardly any injuries both of those contributed to 13-3.

I'm happy for a great season and exceeding expectations. But I don't think we go further if the draw falls how it should.

[yetisnowman]

Maximizing this opportunity.
Yup all the time 8-8 teams do the whole "if the ball bounced our way we coulda had 12-13 wins" Pack are the opposite. Sans the Philly game. But they got thoroughly outplayed past the 2nd quarter there.
But they do a few things really well. They protect the ball, they don't give up a lot of Tds compared to how many yards they give up, and they have executed in the 4th Q of close ganes down the stretch on both sides of the ball.
It's stuff that would, in theory, translate well in the playoffs and be enough to win some games. But if our passing offense isn't more efficient we won't get past the divisional round. We can scrape by these b quads over the last month, but a healthy san fran or NO will turn on us quick if we can't move the ball.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think our record is 3-2 against teams with winning records. We're 9-1 in one score games.

As I said, I read that 8-1 against teams with winning records. Looking at the season results myself, it is 3-1 in games against teams finishing with winning records and 4-0 against other teams who had winning records when we played them. So I'll call it 7-1. You got it right about 9-1 in one score games, although 3 of those were 8 point wins.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I read that the Packers are the team with the best record against teams with winning records - 8-1. That, of course, means 2 of our 3 losses were against teams not with winning records.

I think 8-1 at the time we played them. A lot of teams fell apart after we beat them.

Packers were 6-2 against teams .500 or better. 7-1 against teams with losing record.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Eagles were 1-2 and the Chargers 2-5 when they beat us.

[hoosier]

Better than last year. By a lot.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As good as Rodgers plays. Still.

[wist43]

I agree, better than last year - by a lot.

But that only gets us to 2nd tier playoff team. We'll be washed away by NO in 2 weeks.

So looking to next year... ILB and WR. We have to get good enough everywhere to carry Rodgers. Rodgers is still playoff caliber good, but he is not championship caliber good.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ILB

I can't support your crusade against the Mexican-American but they clearly can use one or two more capable players inside.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Eagles were 1-2 and the Chargers 2-5 when they beat us.

What's your point?

These teams were above .500 when we played them:

Minnesota (1-0) W
Dallas (3-1) W
Detroit (2-1-1) W
Oakland (3-2) W
Kansas City (5-2) W
Carolina (5-3) W
San Francisco (9-1) L
Chicago (7-6) W
Minnesota (10-4) W

8-1

[scharpcheddar]

Comparing win, loss records in the parity era is a waste of time. The league wants it so everyone's 9-7, 8-8, total parity chaos.
The Packers will lose the conference championship to the Niners.

[Joemailman]

Comparing win, loss records in the parity era is a waste of time. The league wants it so everyone's 9-7, 8-8, total parity chaos.
The Packers will lose the conference championship to the Niners.

So why are there 3 teams in the NFC at 13-3 and 5 others with 5 wins or less? Doesn't sound like parity to me.

[scharpcheddar]

So why are there 3 teams in the NFC at 13-3 and 5 others with 5 wins or less? Doesn't sound like parity to me.

Do you take everything literally? Do you understand context and variables?
Yes, teams have winning and losing records. But you still debate those records by comparing the win- loss of who they beat.
Parity= everyone sucks. Everyone sinks to the lowest common denominator.
If the sport were real, you wouldn't have as many teams on the playoffs bubble in week 15 threw 17. It's all artificial drama.

[hoosier]

"Context and variables": in other words, I can make absolute statements and, when the fallacies are pointed out to me, I can fall back on the premise that it's all relative. Uh huh.

[Vincenzo]

14.9 million people watch the average NFL football game, yet “it’s all artificial drama.” Sorry, not buying ANY of it.

[texaspackerbacker]

What's your point?

These teams were above .500 when we played them:

Minnesota (1-0) W
Dallas (3-1) W
Detroit (2-1-1) W
Oakland (3-2) W
Kansas City (5-2) W
Carolina (5-3) W
San Francisco (9-1) L
Chicago (7-6) W
Minnesota (10-4) W

8-1

I looked again, and yes the Lions were 2-1-1, not 1-2-1 as I thought. You are correct.

[Sparkey]

So why are there 3 teams in the NFC at 13-3 and 5 others with 5 wins or less? Doesn't sound like parity to me.

I wouldn't use the word parity in the context of win/loss records. I think parity in the NFL more accurately reflects the ability that teams have of going from "worst to first" in any given season. The NFL is an interesting league in that it deals with "small sample sizes" to decide on a yearly basis who makes the playoffs and who does not. It then uses the 1 game elimination format to decide winners in the playoffs. Essentially allowing outlier performances to effect the outcomes of games.

Think about the NFL in comparison to MLB and the NBA. Mlb plays a 162 game season to effectively eliminate small sample size success and then best of 5 and 7 game series to determine who advances in a playoff. The NBA in the same way plays enough games to more accurately allow the best teams to reach the post season and then the finals.

With the NFL, a few injuries at key points in a season can make or break a teams ability to reach the post season because of the limited number of games. So parity isn't something the league could ever change, because it is built into the fabric of how the league operates.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wouldn't use the word parity in the context of win/loss records. I think parity in the NFL more accurately reflects the ability that teams have of going from "worst to first" in any given season. The NFL is an interesting league in that it deals with "small sample sizes" to decide on a yearly basis who makes the playoffs and who does not. It then uses the 1 game elimination format to decide winners in the playoffs. Essentially allowing outlier performances to effect the outcomes of games.

Think about the NFL in comparison to MLB and the NBA. Mlb plays a 162 game season to effectively eliminate small sample size success and then best of 5 and 7 game series to determine who advances in a playoff. The NBA in the same way plays enough games to more accurately allow the best teams to reach the post season and then the finals.

With the NFL, a few injuries at key points in a season can make or break a teams ability to reach the post season because of the limited number of games. So parity isn't something the league could ever change, because it is built into the fabric of how the league operates.

All of which translates to LUCK being a bigger factor in the NFL.

[Fritz]

The Green Bay Packers are . . .

screwed if Rodgers doesn't play better.

This makes me mad - the defense is good enough to win a championship. The special teams are at least okay, maybe a little better than that now that Scott and Crosby are back in form and Ervin's returning for them. The offensive line is solid, and Aaron Jones is a rising star. Davante Adams is the Pro Bowl receiver. Lazard is pretty good. Tight ends not so much.

But Rodgers was the weak point in Detroit, and he hasn't played will for a few games now. He runs the offense just fine, but he doesn't make the throws very well, at least not the long ones. He needs to play better if this team's going to make a run. He's got to figure out how to get his touch back.

[George Cumby]

The Green Bay Packers are . . .

screwed if Rodgers doesn't play better.

This makes me mad - the defense is good enough to win a championship. The special teams are at least okay, maybe a little better than that now that Scott and Crosby are back in form and Ervin's returning for them. The offensive line is solid, and Aaron Jones is a rising star. Davante Adams is the Pro Bowl receiver. Lazard is pretty good. Tight ends not so much.

But Rodgers was the weak point in Detroit, and he hasn't played will for a few games now. He runs the offense just fine, but he doesn't make the throws very well, at least not the long ones. He needs to play better if this team's going to make a run. He's got to figure out how to get his touch back.

Rodgers career QBR is 102.4. This season he's 95.4. His career completion percentage is: 64.6, this season: 62.

Enviable by most standards, but like others, I agree he's the problem.

[Fritz]

Rodgers career QBR is 102.4. This season he's 95.4. His career completion percentage is: 64.6, this season: 62.

Enviable by most standards, but like others, I agree he's the problem.

Isn't his completion percentage the last three or four games something awful, like barely above fifty percent?

[George Cumby]

Isn't his completion percentage the last three or four games something awful, like barely above fifty percent?

Get ready to vomit:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/8439/aaron-rodgers

[pbmax]

Rodgers career QBR is 102.4. This season he's 95.4. His career completion percentage is: 64.6, this season: 62.

Enviable by most standards, but like others, I agree he's the problem.

He is basically missing 2-4 big plays he'd hit in other years.

[George Cumby]

He is basically missing 2-4 big plays he'd hit in other years.

Which is ok against lesser teams but I fear SF or NO will capitalize in a way weaker teams can't.

[Fritz]

Which is ok against lesser teams but I fear SF or NO will capitalize in a way weaker teams can't.



What he say.

[RashanGary]

He is basically missing 2-4 big plays he'd hit in other years.

His 5 interceptions in 32 games tells me he's missing in safe ways. He seems accurate on free plays.

If he was really hodge podge missing throws with no calculation involved, his interceptions would be up too.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers interception totals are no doubt the result of a very real and intentional effort. That cannot be done in the NFL without accute awareness and ball cobtrol.

Big plays are like hero orgasms for us. The guy doesn't fumble or throw interceptions. He gets angry but never scsred. He's always in cobtrol. RELAX

[RashanGary]

Manning's two worst years statistically were his SB years.

Engaging the OL as run blockers. Empowering a down hill, physical attack... Ball security, tempo, calmness under pressure, unselfish statistically, practice habbits, setting the example by playing winning football even if he's not getting the glory, but letting Jones and the OL have it....

AR is playing the best football of his career

[RashanGary]

I can't believe I'm saying this but Aaron Rodgers somehow became underrated by packer fans

[Gotarace]

His 5 interceptions in 32 games tells me he's missing in safe ways. He seems accurate on free plays.

If he was really hodge podge missing throws with no calculation involved, his interceptions would be up too.
Hard to throw more interceptions if you over throw sixteen passes on Sideline routes in Detroit...Aaron has been Afraid of the Middle of the Field the last few years.

[RashanGary]

Hard to throw more interceptions if you over throw sixteen passes on Sideline routes in Detroit...Aaron has been Afraid of the Middle of the Field the last few years.

Detroit dared him to throw it over the middle....

Hmmmmm... Hopefully he breaks tendency enough to win a championship this year

[MadtownPacker]

His 5 interceptions in 32 games tells me he's missing in safe ways. He seems accurate on free plays.

If he was really hodge podge missing throws with no calculation involved, his interceptions would be up too.Which goes back to what I have said before.

Aaron Rodgers is playing scared. Whatever is wrong is between his ears. We need to stop asking if he can get still make the big throws cuz we see he can. The question is why has he become inconsistent and fearful at times?

[texaspackerbacker]

A series of excellent observations about Aaron Rodgers, RG/JH.

The way I see it, he's doing what needs to be done, given improved but still just mediocre O Line play and receivers who very often don't get separation. It sure beats the hell out of throwing picks and losing games. Remember when idiots in here called him a "stat whore"? Well, this season he is sacrificing stats with throwaways as well as sacrificing a few TD passes by letting that other Aaron get the glory hahahaha. It's worked 13 out of 16 times. Is that true that his two worst years statistically were the two SB years?

Last week and other weeks, most of those missed long passes were throws where our guy had a slim chance, but the DB had no chance. As you said, I think that is by design - a helluva lot better than throwing a pick like so many QBs do way too many times (any is too many) and losing games.

[pbmax]

Hard to throw more interceptions if you over throw sixteen passes on Sideline routes in Detroit...Aaron has been Afraid of the Middle of the Field the last few years.

16 passes went too far, not to the sideline. Unless you have a different report.

Lazard caught two slants, nearly a seam (a miss) and his TD. Graham had a post and a seam (drop and miss).

H's throwing to the middle of the field more this year than before. Still looks like he prefers outside.

[pbmax]

Which goes back to what I have said before.

Aaron Rodgers is playing scared. Whatever is wrong is between his ears. We need to stop asking if he can get still make the big throws cuz we see he can. The question is why has he become inconsistent and fearful at times?

Not sure its scared. He looked like his old self on bootlegs at least twice in the second half with hard throws to tight spots. I think mechanics and receiver connection are still issues.

But the other one was mentioned by Rodgers in a quote at his post game PC. He said some guys run routes correctly, right into the coverage. So maybe the missing piece is not the extended offense, but Rodger's second offense. The one that requires the WR to know what variation the QB wants depending on the coverage.

[scharpcheddar]

"Context and variables": in other words, I can make absolute statements and, when the fallacies are pointed out to me, I can fall back on the premise that it's all relative. Uh huh.

Lol youre illiterate. Critical thought has more than two sides.
You havent pointed out any fallacy. You are simply contradicting me.

[scharpcheddar]

14.9 million people watch the average NFL football game, yet “it’s all artificial drama.” Sorry, not buying ANY of it.

The average American is a idiot. There's 300 million people.
14 million is a drop in the bucket. Obviously most don't feel the need to live vicariously through jocks catching balls on tv.
People believe their vote counts and a god exists. Getting them to believe a sport is legit is small potatoes compared to that.

The book 1984 was not fiction :
-------------------------
Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult…. All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working hours or shorter rations. And when they became discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontentment led nowhere, because being without general ideas, they could only focus it on petty specific grievances.

[texaspackerbacker]

hmmm That kinda sounds like politics to me. Hey, newby, come over to FYI and get your ass kicked if you feel up to it.

[scharpcheddar]

hmmm That kinda sounds like politics to me. Hey, newby, come over to FYI and get your ass kicked if you feel up to it.

lol how can i get my ass kicked when i just told you your vote doesnt count. it nullifies everything about politics. its just propaganda from both sides.

[pbmax]

Please get conversation back to sports and Packers.

[gbgary]

I am reading the narratives about the playoff teams and what their "strength's" are:

For me, I would say that the Packers are battle tested.

i think they're more "skirmish tested" lol. anyone with a QB and TE pretty much killed them. they're a tier 2 playoff team. the elites are miles ahead of them.

[esoxx]

i think they're more "skirmish tested" lol. anyone with a QB and TE pretty much killed them. they're a tier 2 playoff team. the elites are miles ahead of them.

So you're saying Packers are in trouble when Drew Brees and Jared Cook come to town January 12th?

[RashanGary]

The average American is a idiot. There's 300 million people.
14 million is a drop in the bucket. Obviously most don't feel the need to live vicariously through jocks catching balls on tv.
People believe their vote counts and a god exists. Getting them to believe a sport is legit is small potatoes compared to that.

The book 1984 was not fiction :
-------------------------
Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult…. All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working hours or shorter rations. And when they became discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontentment led nowhere, because being without general ideas, they could only focus it on petty specific grievances.

I do agree with most. Howeget, I think football, specifically the refs, are a design to remind us to accept whatever "they" decide because there is no fighting back. It's similar to the story of jesus. Doesn't pay to fight back no matter how just the cause may be.

[pbmax]

So you're saying Packers are in trouble when Drew Brees and Jared Cook come to town January 12th?

Packers just need to throw Jimmy Graham at Cook's leg in the first quarter.

[Bretsky]

So you're saying Packers are in trouble when Drew Brees and Jared Cook come to town January 12th?



Hope I'm wrong, but that's pretty much how I feel.

[bobblehead]

A few points. Look at SF's record and don't focus on the game we played poorly against them and guess what. They are 13-3. They got 9 against the Redskins. They gave up 46 to the saints. They beat up some pretty bad teams, and teams that were playing poorly when they got them. They lost to the Falcons! If the ball bounced slightly different they could have lost their LAST 4 GAMES.

Saints. They lost to the Rams right away when the Rams were playing poorly. Gave up 48 points to Jimmy G. Got held to 12 by the vaunted Cowboys. Also lost to the Falcons. Won 7 one score games. Were only 8-3 with Brees as the QB.

We focus on our team and we don't "feel" like we are 13-3. I feel the same way. I saw stinkers against the 49ers in a HUGE game and also against the Chargers. But I also so us beat down a Cowboys team that many thought were peaking (in their house). I saw us lose our best WR and actually have maybe our best offensive run of the year. I also saw us destroy our division and beat the vikings twice. Vikings are in the playoffs yo.

yea, I still think we are unlikely to beat the saints, but when you lay it out objectively, its not a foregone conclusion. When you add in homefield I think we are a lot closer than many think. SF...well, I would hope we would be better prepared than the first game and maybe play with a bit of a chip on our shoulder as well. Factor this in...would you rather play the NFCC with Rodgers or Garrapolo? I don't think that answer is Jimmy G just yet.

[bobblehead]

The Green Bay Packers are . . .

screwed if Rodgers doesn't play better.

.

Compare Rodgers to Jimmy G this year. Very close statistically, but Jimmy completes at a higher percentage (probably due to kittles and fully buying into shanahan Offense). Jimmy also has 10 more picks.

[MadtownPacker]

One thing about Jimmy G, he is willing to take risk putting it in tight spots or where his guy has a chance to fight for it. He is playing like he believes in his team. That’s one thing that always bugs me about Rodgers. He needs to show fire and be the leader he is supposed to be.

Would help to have a crazy white boy TE like Kittle. He is the ignition in the Niners offense and has Garapolo feeling confident. Find a way to stop him and the rest of their offense will come tumbling down.

[Deputy Nutz]

It's a heck of a turn around season for the Packers and to be honest I think Rodgers has done a reasonably good job adapting to LaFluer's offense. It's a new system and he has done a decent job running the offense. The running game is as good as it's been in a decade and maybe it's because Rodgers doesn't audible out of every run play like he did in years past, but whatever.

Rodgers and the offense are going to have to move the football and score points, not always touchdowns but they have to hold on to the ball and give the defense a chance to get a break and make adjustments. Turnovers have to be at a minimum, accumulating first downs, and converting on third down will be the reasons why the Packers will have a chance to play in a Super Bowl.

[MadtownPacker]

Turnovers have to be at a minimum, accumulating first downs, and converting on third down will be the reasons why the Packers will have a chance to play in a Super Bowl.Wow there is great advice. Real out of the box thinking. :)

I think they have a chance if some chances are taken. Rodgers running it. Flower calling some tricks plays like Davante throwing it. Unexpected onside kick to start the game. The defense has shown it can withstand turnovers and shitty 3 and out play by the offense so why not? Something to get the swagger going.

[gbgary]

So you're saying Packers are in trouble when Drew Brees and Jared Cook come to town January 12th?

if that's the matchup and the O continues to play one half mccarthy offense and one half MLF offense?...than i'm not optimistic. if it's min or sea?...there's a chance for another game. but if things go as expected it will take a rodgers epiphany between now and then. he'll have to play small ball the whole game (setting up a shot or two) and keep it away from NO. they could surprise. NO can strike pretty fast though so the D has to be on point. there is no margin for error if it's NO. it'll take a perfect game. don larson isn't around.

[scharpcheddar]

14.9 million people watch the average NFL football game, yet “it’s all artificial drama.” Sorry, not buying ANY of it.

I forgot. I already answered this

[pbmax]

The Green Bay Packers are ....


not done rebuilding the defense and in desperate need of weapons on offense. If this was Favre, we would be deep in sign Randy Moss territory now.

Which, come to think about it, probably means we get a QB with the first round pick in 4 months. :lol:

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

The Green Bay Packers are ....


not done rebuilding the defense and in desperate need of weapons on offense. If this was Favre, we would be deep in sign Randy Moss territory now.

Which, come to think about it, probably means we get a QB with the first round pick in 4 months. :lol:

With the drop off in performance, you can bet your ass (or whatever body part you can spare) they will be thinking about QB in the draft. Maybe not round 1, but if they see a guy they like, I'm guessing they pull the trigger.

[Harlan Huckleby]

With the drop off in performance, you can bet your ass (or whatever body part you can spare) they will be thinking about QB in the draft. Maybe not round 1, but if they see a guy they like, I'm guessing they pull the trigger.

Why not round 1?

Did Ted worry about Favre's feelings? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

I think Rodgers would handle it fine. HE fancies himself a GREAT QB and doesn't want to play as a guy who is 2nd tier. I think.

[Teamcheez1]

I can assure you of one thing. There will be zero thought to extending AR's contract. He has 2 maybe 3 years left with this team.

[Joemailman]

I can assure you of one thing. There will be zero thought to extending AR's contract. He has 2 maybe 3 years left with this team.

His contract runs through 2023. 2022 would be the 1st year they would gain salary cap space by cutting/trading him. This is his last contract with Packers I'm sure.

[pbmax]

At the rate they are going, Rodgers will actually retire before the Packers are ready to replace him.

[scharpcheddar]

The Packers are..
Exactly who I said they'd be. Losers of this game.
Didn't even take 1 qtr for me to be right. They just laid down

[texaspackerbacker]

Seriously, Harlan, teamcheez, Joe, etc.? After the debacle we saw with our D and our O Line, ya'all are still whining about Aaron Rodgers?

I was too pissed off to even come on and post last night and until past noon today, and I waded through about a dozen threads (bottom to top) with mostly fairly sensible comments. Then I came across this stupid shit. We have indeed wasted Rodgers' best years - thanks again Ted. We still have barely borderline talent supporting him. A little more decent GMing from Gutekunst and we should be back on top - and I'm fully confident Rodgers will still be the NFL best for another five or more years.

Aaron Rodgers IS who the Green Bay Packers are. Unfortunately, for too long, he has been about all they are.

[Joemailman]

Seriously, Harlan, teamcheez, Joe, etc.? After the debacle we saw with our D and our O Line, ya'all are still whining about Aaron Rodgers?

I was too pissed off to even come on and post last night and until past noon today, and I waded through about a dozen threads (bottom to top) with mostly fairly sensible comments. Then I came across this stupid shit. We have indeed wasted Rodgers' best years - thanks again Ted. We still have barely borderline talent supporting him. A little more decent GMing from Gutekunst and we should be back on top - and I'm fully confident Rodgers will still be the NFL best for another five or more years.

Aaron Rodgers IS who the Green Bay Packers are. Unfortunately, for too long, he has been about all they are.

I didn't advocate dumping Rodgers. Just pointing out that his contract dictates he'll be here a while. You have to have blinders on if you think Rodgers is still the best QB in the NFL. I think there's still a window for the Packers to win it all with Rodgers. If they do though, Rodgers won't be the biggest reason they won.

[texaspackerbacker]

You said you're sure this is his last contract with the Packers - expiring in a couple of years. How is that not advocating dumping him?

As for best in the NFL right now, it's between Rodgers and the other State Farm guy. Give Rodgers a Tyreek Hill, and he will be as good or better than Mahomes.

[Joemailman]

You said you're sure this is his last contract with the Packers - expiring in a couple of years. How is that not advocating dumping him?

As for best in the NFL right now, it's between Rodgers and the other State Farm guy. Give Rodgers a Tyreek Hill, and he will be as good or better than Mahomes.

You don't know what you're talking about. He has 4 years left on his contract. He'll be 40 then.

[texaspackerbacker]

OK, four years and 40 years old. I still doubt that is the end for him with the Packers - barring injury. Both Favre and Brady played way beyond that, and there's plenty of reason to expect Rodgers to stay good longer.

[Joemailman]

OK, four years and 40 years old. I still doubt that is the end for him with the Packers - barring injury. Both Favre and Brady played way beyond that, and there's plenty of reason to expect Rodgers to stay good longer.

Not really. Neither Favre or Brady suffered the number of significant injuries Rodgers has.

[Deputy Nutz]

Not really. Neither Favre or Brady suffered the number of significant injuries Rodgers has.

Brady has been relatively healthy outside of losing an entire 2008 to a knee injury, Favre just played through everything humanly possible. Rodgers missed because of broken collar bones, and was able to come back in each of those two seasons. Rodgers has the ability to play past 40, but do you want to sign him to a new deal when he is 40? I think I would prepare for a 2024 season without Aaron Rodgers.

[mraynrand]

I didn't advocate dumping Rodgers. Just pointing out that his contract dictates he'll be here a while. You have to have blinders on if you think Rodgers is still the best QB in the NFL. I think there's still a window for the Packers to win it all with Rodgers. If they do though, Rodgers won't be the biggest reason they won.

Of course, and Rodgers was only partly responsible for winning it all in 2010, as was Favre in 1996. Guess what both those teams had? Yep, #1 and #2 defenses - and both sealed playoff games for them and more. PBmax posted the points scored in Rodger's playoff losses. Damn, the Giants won two super bowls because the had a dominant defensive line. Defense doesn't ALWAYS win championships, but it's highly correlated.

[Freak Out]

....not going to the SB.

[pbmax]

Of course, and Rodgers was only partly responsible for winning it all in 2010, as was Favre in 1996. Guess what both those teams had? Yep, #1 and #2 defenses - and both sealed playoff games for them and more. PBmax posted the points scored in Rodger's playoff losses. Damn, the Giants won two super bowls because the had a dominant defensive line. Defense doesn't ALWAYS win championships, but it's highly correlated.

Having a defense would be a step up in the playoffs for this team at times.

But it’s easy to overstate this. Defense played well enough versus Seattle and the 49ers at Lambeau playoff games but the offense didn’t do it’s job in those cases.

[mraynrand]

Having a defense would be a step up in the playoffs for this team at times.

But it’s easy to overstate this. Defense played well enough versus Seattle and the 49ers at Lambeau playoff games but the offense didn’t do it’s job in those cases.

Also AZ. Disasters happen and the Seattle defense in 2014 and the niners defense in 2013 were not too shabby. Of course, that's not my point. Even with supercharged offenses, teams need defenses to win. Maybe not every game, but some, and to be good enough to make critical plays, like stopping a pop-up two point conversion, for example.

[Bossman641]

Rodgers has played 18 playoff games. In the 10 wins the team averages 30.6 scored and 19.2 allowed. In the 8 losses they score 24.9 and allow 36.4. They are 9-1 when allowing 25 or less.

Brady has played 41 playoff games. Average 30 scored and 18.2 allowed in 30 wins and 18.7 scored and 27.2 allowed in 11 losses. They are 23-4 when allowing 25 or less.

Packers have allowed 35 or more in 5 of those 18 starts, with games of 44, 45, and 51. Pats have allowed 35 or more twice in the playoffs...at 38 and 41 allowed.

[Deputy Nutz]

It's not for a lack of trying on defense. The Packers have thrown quite a bit at the defense through the draft and free agency to get it "fixed". The Packers have never seemed to hire the right "right" guy to run the defense, or draft the "right" players to be elite. Since 2005 the Packers have drafted a defensive player in the first round or with their first pick 13 times.

1. Rashan Gary DE 2019
1. Darnell Savage S 2019
1. Jaire Alexander CB 2018
2. Kevin King CB 2017
1. Kenny Clark CB 2016
1. Damarious Randall CB 2015
1. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix S 2014
1. Deonte Jones DE 2013
1. Nick Perry OLB 2012
1. BJ Raji DT 2009
1. Clay Matthews 2009
1. Justin Harrell DT 2007
1. AJ Hawk LB 2006

There are a lot of busts for a lot of different reasons on that list. I didn't even go deep into the second round picks which there have also been a lot of misses on defense. The Packers who where a build through the draft team for over a decade simply missed too many times on the elite talent in the first round to build the core of their defense. I

Lets for fun, rank these guys...
1. Clay Matthews 2009 All Pro
2. Kenny Clark 2016 Pro Bowl
3. AJ Hawk 2006 Solid Starter Retired
4. BJ Raji 2009 Pro Bowl-Early Retirement
5. Nick Perry 2012 Solid Starter-unsigned/Retired
6. Jaire Alexander 2018 Solid Starter
7. Darnell Savage 2019 Starter
8. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix 2014 Starter- Journeyman
9. Kevin King 2017 Starter
10. Rashan Gary 2019 Role player
11. Demarious Randall 2015 Liability - Starter
12. Deonte Jones 2013 Role player - Out of league
13. Justin Harrell 2006 Liability- Out of league

When I look at this list I think of the overall lack of talent drafted in the first round. The second round defensive picks are even worse, outside of Casey Heyward, who the Packers let walk.

[mraynrand]

The second round defensive picks are even worse, outside of Casey Heyward, who the Packers let walk.

limp, more like.

[pbmax]

Gotta hope Gute, who gave Pettine a FA list of available OLB and let him pick (and then found they could afford both the first and second choice) has a better handle on this than past personnel folks.

As wist has pointed out before, this is not the first stretch of time that the Packers under the Harlan/Wolf banner have struggled to find defense in the draft.

[run pMc]

Not really. Neither Favre or Brady suffered the number of significant injuries Rodgers has.
True. The collarbones, broken leg, concussions... he's not going to heal faster or get stronger at this point of his career. Comparing him to Favre is a little unfair -- Favre was legendary for playing through anything, as his games-played streak proves.

Also - can we stop the "Rodgers' career has been wasted by ___?" Drew Brees has ONE SB ring, and has lost 2 other NFC Championship games. His deep ball is starting to flutter, and I don't hear national media saying his career was wasted.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

True. The collarbones, broken leg, concussions... he's not going to heal faster or get stronger at this point of his career. Comparing him to Favre is a little unfair -- Favre was legendary for playing through anything, as his games-played streak proves.

Also - can we stop the "Rodgers' career has been wasted by ___?" Drew Brees has ONE SB ring, and has lost 2 other NFC Championship games. His deep ball is starting to flutter, and I don't hear national media saying his career was wasted.

Maybe, but Rodgers career has been wasted...

[Deputy Nutz]

Multiple Super Bowl winning QBs currently in the NFL.

Tom Brady 6
Eli Manning 2
Ben Roethlisberger 2

The Packers haven't wasted anything. Rodgers has made a lot of money and the Packers have made the playoffs 9 times when he was the starter. News Flash, it is not that easy to win Super Bowls in the NFL, even though the Patriots made it look relatively easy.

[pbmax]

Eli Manning winning might just prove its luck and pass rush and not much more.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers' career has not been wasted in the sense that We the Packers Fans have had a whole lot to enjoy for a long long time with Rodgers and Favre before him. However, some people like to ignore season after season - with very few exceptions - of excellence and winning records, claiming the Super Bowl is the only thing that counts. Personally, it took me a day or so to get over the disgust of Sunday's bad loss, but I'm now content that this was a really good season - not that it couldn't have been better with just a little bit better personnel in a few key spots.

I was in full "wait 'til next year" mode even after the shitty season last year; How much more after what we saw this season. Let's go get those few key pieces to the puzzle while Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Jones are still excellent. That might make a good poll hahahaha - which Aaron is gonna flame out first, the RB or the QB?

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Rodgers' career has not been wasted in the sense that We the Packers Fans have had a whole lot to enjoy for a long long time with Rodgers and Favre before him. However, some people like to ignore season after season - with very few exceptions - of excellence and winning records, claiming the Super Bowl is the only thing that counts. Personally, it took me a day or so to get over the disgust of Sunday's bad loss, but I'm now content that this was a really good season - not that it couldn't have been better with just a little bit better personnel in a few key spots.

I was in full "wait 'til next year" mode even after the shitty season last year; How much more after what we saw this season. Let's go get those few key pieces to the puzzle while Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Jones are still excellent. That might make a good poll hahahaha - which Aaron is gonna flame out first, the RB or the QB?

I hear you, but its the age old conundrum of not looking at the past good results, but instead focusing on the now. And for me, the scary part is yes, indeed, we have been very very lucky having Favre and then Rodgers, but with Rodgers clearly declining, having fairly poor hit rates on recent drafts, and having too few play makers on either side of the ball, what exactly happens NOW??

[texaspackerbacker]

First of all, I disagree that there has been all that much decline in Rodgers' performance. But otherwise, what you say is fairly valid, depending on how far back you go when you say recent. We do need more playmakers - doesn't everybody.

I'll tell you what I absolutely do NOT want is the kind of boom and bust thing some team in the NFL and other sports do - dropping all the way down to the pits in the hope - which certainly doesn't always happen - of building back up to the top. That absolutely ain't the title of this thread.

[run pMc]

Rodgers' career has not been wasted in the sense that We the Packers Fans have had a whole lot to enjoy for a long long time with Rodgers and Favre before him. However, some people like to ignore season after season - with very few exceptions - of excellence and winning records, claiming the Super Bowl is the only thing that counts. Personally, it took me a day or so to get over the disgust of Sunday's bad loss, but I'm now content that this was a really good season - not that it couldn't have been better with just a little bit better personnel in a few key spots.

I was in full "wait 'til next year" mode even after the shitty season last year; How much more after what we saw this season. Let's go get those few key pieces to the puzzle while Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Jones are still excellent. That might make a good poll hahahaha - which Aaron is gonna flame out first, the RB or the QB?

Agree with you here -- it was a very exciting season, and I did not expect 14 wins and an NFC Championship game in MLF's 1st year. After 2 years of not making the playoffs, it was great to watch meaningful games in January. They exceeded my expectations, and had some very good luck. They may experience some regression to the mean in terms of winning close games, injuries, etc., but I'm hoping Gute can piece together a solid offseason personnel-wise and Year 2 in the offense produces better execution.

And you're also right-on with QB play -- Rodgers isn't perfect (I criticize him plenty), but there are plenty of teams that would have loved to have him on their team, even at age 36. The Favre-Rodgers timeline isn't quite Montana-Young, but they've made the playoffs 19 out of the last 30 seasons (Infante was coach in '91!) - not many teams can rival that.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/784468/teams-ranked-by-playoff-appearances-in-nfl-history/

[scharpcheddar]

They are.....
Done for the season. Move on, make a super bowl thread

[texaspackerbacker]

Kick that shithead out of here, Madtown.

[pbmax]

... done for 2019-20.

[scharpcheddar]

They are.....
Done for the season. Move on, make a super bowl thread


Kick that shithead out of here, Madtown.


... done for 2019-20.

That's 2 vs 1 there.
It's sports talk dude. Trivial fun. Get a grip

[run pMc]

... done for 2019-20.

Yup. And drafting 30th in the first round.

[George Cumby]

It's sports talk dude. Trivial fun. Get a grip

Lol.

Truth.