Robinson signed to two year deal

[The_Dude]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5955056

Packers, Robinson agree on two-year deal

The up-and-down career of former first-rounder Koren Robinson is about to take another up.

FOXSports.com has learned that the Green Bay Packers have agreed to terms on a two-year deal with the troubled receiver. He is expected to sign the actual contract within the next 24 hours.
The contract is believed to have protection in case Robinson's legal problems resurface.

Robinson was released by the Minnesota Vikings in August, just 10 days after he was charged with drunken driving and fleeing police. On Aug. 15, Robinson's blue BMW was caught on radar going more than 100 mph in a 55-mph zone. According to police, when they tried to pull him over, Robinson refused to stop and a high-speed chase ensued. The criminal complaint said Robinson's blood-alcohol content was measured at 0.11 percent.

It wasn't Robinson's first brush with the law or substance abuse. In 2005, Robinson pleaded guilty to DUI while with the Seattle Seahawks. And in 2004, he was suspended for four games for violating the league's substance abuse policy.

Prior to his arrest in August, Robinson had appeared to put his issues behind him, putting together a Pro Bowl campaign in Minnesota.

[falco]

Holy shit.

What does TT know that we don't...

[falco]

MONDAY, Sept. 11, 2006, 5:02 p.m.
Packers add troubled WR Robinson

The Packers today agreed to a contract with wide receiver/kick returner Koren Robinson.

The six-year veteran earned Pro Bowl recognition for the Vikings last season, when he led the NFC and ranked fifth in the league in kickoff returns (26.0 avg).

Robinson, however, is facing a possible one-year suspension for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy.

Originally selected by Seattle in the first round (ninth overall) of the 2001 NFL draft, Robinson played his first four years with the Seahawks before signing as a free agent with Minnesota on the eve of the 2005 season. In 71 NFL games, including 57 starts, he has 235 receptions for 3,514 yards (15.0 avg.) and 13 touchdowns. Robinson also has 21 career carries for 114 yards (5.4 avg.) and one TD.

General manager Ted Thompson and personnel analyst John Schneider were both in Seattle when Robinson was scouted and eventually selected with the No. 9 pick in the 2001 draft. After Robinson was cut from the Seahawks and then the Vikings last year, the Packers made a push to get him signed.

Robinson ended up re-signing with the Vikings.

[gbpackfan]

Good!

I don't care about his legal history. I'm sorry, it may be wrong, but I don't! I want to win! K-Rob CAN help.

Our kick returners are BY FAR THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. While I was at the game I was telling my wife "no other GM in the NFL would have Gado and Herron as their kick returners. It's pathetic!" I called them the turtle team!

I wonder if he is going to get suspended?

[falco]

Not to spam the thread, but as far as on the field goes, this really helps the team a lot. Assuming he is going to be able to play this year, we now have a decent #2 or #3 receiver and an excellent returner.

[Fosco33]

Hmmm, it seems many of us here read those tea leaves correctly....

Personally, if we have an actual KR/WR backup, I'm very ok w/ this signing - as long as he stays away from Milwaukee - the drunkest city in America.

[MJZiggy]

Holy shit.

What does TT know that we don't...

Evidently, he watched the game yesterday.

[CaptainKickass]

This is terrible news. Now I know it's gonna be a looooooooooong season.

I know a guy who worked security at the players entrances when K-Rob was with Seattle. The guy was always the last player thru the entrance on game day,always. Always showing up with bloodshot eyes and looking like he just woke up (that's secret code for obviously on weed) and smelling like alchohol.

I'd rather have Hunt Walker and Jackson back than this guy regardless of talent. Bad move TT. Bad move.

:sad:

[Partial]

Good!

I don't care about his legal history. I'm sorry, it may be wrong, but I don't! I want to win! K-Rob CAN help.

Our kick returners are BY FAR THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. While I was at the game I was telling my wife "no other GM in the NFL would have Gado and Herron as their kick returners. It's pathetic!" I called them the turtle team!

I wonder if he is going to get suspended?

Will Blackmon, I reckon he's equally as agile and shifty as Devin Hester.

[Fosco33]

The contract is believed to have protection in case Robinson's legal problems resurface.


Can we bypass the DUI issue by having a personal driver 24 hours a day no questions asked? It'd be cheaper than dealing w/ his legal issues....

[falco]

Holy shit.

What does TT know that we don't...

Evidently, he watched the game yesterday.

I meant more along the lines of KR's suspension, but I'll agree with your comments as well.

[justanotherpackfan]

That guy was right, props to him.

[PackerPro42]

I think this is a great move because the packers now have a solid number 2 and a great kick returner.

[Brohm]

At least the Packers are protected contractwise. He can step in short-term and provide a boost to the return game and maybe help at receiver. Then when the hammer drops, hopefully Blackmon will be ready to roll and Jennings has his game feet.

I remember Wolf taking a couple fliers out on players that were on suspension (D-Back, can't remember his name) and also brought the much maligned Rison in. Some work out some don't. If Koren gets his act together, it willeventually be a very good pick-up. If not, well no harm financially and he isnt a child rapist.

[mission]

i could give a fuck about his drinking... if it's a problem then it becomes a problem. i dont see it as HURTING this team (yes, did you *watch* the game?).

if it doesnt become a problem then we have a decent addition to our team. i just don't see what this hurts at all...

"oh in green bay we only like upstanding citizens who will help sally walk her dog across the street"

that's great and all but i want to win some football games. i think we only want all that (above) shit because the only players that will stay happy in a city like green bay are people like that. at the end of the day, we're gonna have to bend a little bit, get a little fire going and if that means mixing it up, so be it!

not that im even remotely proud of this (as it was the only time ive drove while drinking in YEARS) but i narrowly escaped a DUI a couple months ago and learned my lesson by tune of my paid off audi (not covered in this situation) getting completely totaled. yes i was drinking but the last thing my company would have done is fired me if i did get a DUI conviction. i help us win, manage our largest accounts and honestly, what i do on my personal time might be reflective of my family (a girlfriend, two cats and a dog) but definitely not my performance in the office. that's all they're concerned with... if shit like the tokes in my name or a few shots on a saturday night somehow negatively affect what i do at work then there's an issue. otherwise it's just PR.

[PackerPro42]

I would still like to watch the Packers pick up Rogers or Calico.

[Jimx29]

See Ya later Fergie :wavesgoodbye:

[Bossman641]

Purely from a football standpoint this is a big move for the team. Replacing Gado and Noah "Snail" Herron with KR makes our kick return game 1000 times better.

This certainly throws the whole "Packer People" bullshit out the window.

[Fosco33]

See Ya later Fergie :wavesgoodbye:

Cut or trade? If so, what could we get?

Plus, how long is this suspension hearing gonna take - b/c he can play in the meantime. I don't want to come to the playoffs and suddenly be out a WR - you know?

[falco]

I don't want to come to the playoffs and suddenly be out a WR - you know?

I don't think you have to worry about that. :shock:

[mission]

I don't want to come to the playoffs and suddenly be out a WR - you know?

I don't think you have to worry about that. :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Fosco33]

I don't want to come to the playoffs and suddenly be out a WR - you know?

I don't think you have to worry about that. :shock:

I'm still there for 9-7 - the koolaid I had was apparently spiked w/ fine Vodka :lol:

[Brohm]

Given Koren's tenuous situation and the fact we only have 4 other WR, I think we need to keep Fergie. If someone offers us something outlandish, well that's a different story.

[Fosco33]

Given Koren's tenuous situation and the fact we only have 4 other WR, I think we need to keep Fergie. If someone offers us something outlandish, well that's a different story.

Who do you get rid of then?

[MJZiggy]

Are we at 53, or did TT leave a roster spot open?

[motife]

Before his legal troubles, Koren was Robinson was the Vikings #1 wideout.

[Rastak]

Hey Madtown, since nobody got hurt....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[motife]

Adding depth to their receiving corps and kicking game, the Green Bay Packers Monday agreed to terms with veteran Koren Robinson. Ted Thompson, Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations, announced the agreement.

Robinson, a 6-foot-1, 205-pound wide receiver out of North Carolina State, has worked professionally with several individuals currently in the Packers organization, including Thompson.

The sixth-year veteran earned Pro Bowl recognition for the Vikings last season, when he led the NFC and ranked fifth in the league in kickoff returns (26.0 avg., 47 returns, 1,221 yards). In a 24-21 road triumph against the Giants (Nov. 13), he returned a kickoff 86 yards for a touchdown.

Originally selected by Seattle in the first round (ninth overall) of the 2001 NFL Draft, Robinson played his first four years with the Seahawks before signing as a free agent with Minnesota on the eve of the 2005 season. In 71 NFL games, including 57 starts, he has 235 receptions for 3,514 yards (15.0 avg.) and 13 touchdowns. Robinson also has 21 career carries for 114 yards (5.4 avg.) and one TD.

[Scott Campbell]

Purely from a football standpoint this is a big move for the team. Replacing Gado and Noah "Snail" Herron with KR makes our kick return game 1000 times better.

This certainly throws the whole "Packer People" bullshit out the window.


What they meant by Packer People:

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/08/18/2006-08-18T031223Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKEN-UK-GIBSON.jpg

[Brohm]

[/quote]
Who do you get rid of then?[/quote]

Good question. I think they need to keep all 4 of their receivers due to Koren's potential suspension (wonder is something else is up there).

Maybe the 4th TE goes? Really will be interesting how this pans out as I think they will keep the 2 young DB's they added as well.

[Rastak]

Purely from a football standpoint this is a big move for the team. Replacing Gado and Noah "Snail" Herron with KR makes our kick return game 1000 times better.

This certainly throws the whole "Packer People" bullshit out the window.


What they meant by Packer People:

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/08/18/2006-08-18T031223Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKEN-UK-GIBSON.jpg


I didn't think of that....so Packer People are guys facing one year suspensions, one year in jail for probabtion violation and a felony?


Jesus H.

[Badgepack]

I think the roster is only at 51

[BallHawk]

This certainly throws the whole "Packer People" bullshit out the window.

Not neccesairly. Last year he was the receipeint of the Ed Block Courage Award, upon vote from his teammates. Here's a snapshot of what the award is for,

"Each March in Baltimore, the Ed Block Courage Award Foundation honors one player from each team in the NFL who, in the eyes of their teammates, exemplifies a commitment to the principles of sportsmanship and courage."

I think what he did was wrong, but you have to look at the guy as a human being. He fucked up, no question, and he could of killed somebody doing what he did, but I can assure you he is a better person than that. He has a very serious problem, and hopefully he'll get that fixed.

From a football standpoint, I can't see how you can argue this move. He's a pro-bowl kick returner and is a huge improvement at WR, considering our #4 was Ruvell Martin, even though I love that kid. He'll either start as the #4 or #3 next week, I don't see him being the #2, until week 5 or 6, depending on how Jennings/Ferguson plays, and obviously K-Rob.

I think it is a great move, and I hope he contributes to the team.

[Noodle]

Ok, I'm going to say it -- what the heck ever happened to GB wanting only "Packer People"? It was stupid at the time and now looks even stupider.

Unless they had in mind Max and the Golden Boy.

In any event, I'm in favor of this move. As others have noted, this gives us a nice counterpart to Driver and, with some luck, a decent KR guy.

Besides, how much trouble can you get into in GB, assuming he stays out of Barnett's club.

[mission]

Purely from a football standpoint this is a big move for the team. Replacing Gado and Noah "Snail" Herron with KR makes our kick return game 1000 times better.

This certainly throws the whole "Packer People" bullshit out the window.


What they meant by Packer People:

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/08/18/2006-08-18T031223Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKEN-UK-GIBSON.jpg


I didn't think of that....so Packer People are guys facing one year suspensions, one year in jail for probabtion violation and a felony?


Jesus H.

if we only signed "packer people" we'd have a team of white i-cant-make-any-plays players named brady. :razz:

[motife]

http://www.celluloid-dreams.de/content/images/kritiken-filmbilder/lost-highway/lost-highway-2.jpg

[Brohm]

http://www.celluloid-dreams.de/content/images/kritiken-filmbilder/lost-highway/lost-highway-2.jpg

:shock: wtf is that?

[Rastak]

This certainly throws the whole "Packer People" bullshit out the window.

Not neccesairly. Last year he was the receipeint of the Ed Block Courage Award, upon vote from his teammates. Here's a snapshot of what the award is for,

"Each March in Baltimore, the Ed Block Courage Award Foundation honors one player from each team in the NFL who, in the eyes of their teammates, exemplifies a commitment to the principles of sportsmanship and courage."

I think what he did was wrong, but you have to look at the guy as a human being. He fucked up, no question, and he could of killed somebody doing what he did, but I can assure you he is a better person than that. He has a very serious problem, and hopefully he'll get that fixed.

From a football standpoint, I can't see how you can argue this move. He's a pro-bowl kick returner and is a huge improvement at WR, considering our #4 was Ruvell Martin, even though I love that kid. He'll either start as the #4 or #3 next week, I don't see him being the #2, until week 5 or 6, depending on how Jennings/Ferguson plays, and obviously K-Rob.

I think it is a great move, and I hope he contributes to the team.


Ballhawk, the guy lied to everybody, let everybody down. He could have killed people and he's a fucking turd of the highest order until he gets his shit straight. Nice guy but what he did can't be defended.

[MJZiggy]

I wonder if TT will circulate a picture of him to every bar and liquor store in the area and ask them not to serve him.

[Rastak]

http://www.celluloid-dreams.de/content/images/kritiken-filmbilder/lost-highway/lost-highway-2.jpg

:shock: wtf is that?


I can answer that...some really weird shit,,,,,

[falco]

Ballhawk, the guy lied to everybody, let everybody down. He could have killed people and he's a fucking turd of the highest order until he gets his shit straight. Nice guy but what he did can't be defended.

Looks like somebody is jealous of our awesome new receiver!!!

just kidding you Rastak.

[motife]

http://www.celluloid-dreams.de/content/images/kritiken-filmbilder/lost-highway/lost-highway-2.jpg

:shock: wtf is that?

More shots of Packer People.

Robert Blake as "the mystery man" in Lost Highway.

http://blogs.salon.com/0002003/images/blake.jpg

[Rastak]

Purely from a football standpoint this is a big move for the team. Replacing Gado and Noah "Snail" Herron with KR makes our kick return game 1000 times better.

This certainly throws the whole "Packer People" bullshit out the window.


What they meant by Packer People:

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/08/18/2006-08-18T031223Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKEN-UK-GIBSON.jpg


I didn't think of that....so Packer People are guys facing one year suspensions, one year in jail for probabtion violation and a felony?


Jesus H.

if we only signed "packer people" we'd have a team of white i-cant-make-any-plays players named brady. :razz:


Are you telling me only black players commit crimes and white players are all fine and dandy citizens?

[falco]

Packers add troubled WR Robinson
Pro Bowl player facing possible one-year suspension
By TOM SILVERSTEIN
tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 11, 2006

Just a day after suffering their first shutout loss since 1991, the Green Bay Packers made a bold but risky move to improve their offense, agreeing to terms with troubled wide receiver Koren Robinson.

The deal comes eight days after Robinson, a Pro Bowl kick returner last year, made a visit to Packers headquarters to meet with general manager Ted Thompson and head coach Mike McCarthy. Thompson and personnel analyst John Schneider were both in Seattle when the Seahawks drafted Robinson and have a strong, personal relationship with him.

"I think it's a great fit for Koren and I think he's a great fit for the Packers," agent Alvin Keels said Monday. "I think they have an offense he's comfortable playing in. He's familiar with a couple front office people and Green Bay is a warm town. I think they'll give him an opportunity."

The move is risky because Robinson, 26, has had numerous alcohol-related problems and was suspended for four games in 2004 for violating the league's substance-abuse policy. After spending time in a treatment facility following his release from Seattle, Robinson signed with the Minnesota Vikings.

He averaged an NFC-high 26 yards per kickoff return in 14 games last year with the Vikings, scoring once on a touchdown. In addition, the former No. 9 pick overall of the Seahawks in 2001 started five games at wide receiver, averaging 15.8 yards per catch on 22 receptions.

He also rushed the ball four times for 27 yards and a touchdown.

"Koren is in a position to help this team," Keels said. "I don't think this is a courtesy signing. I think it was something Ted and the organization did to help the ballclub."

Thompson, who was scheduled to address the move this evening, is putting his neck on the line with the deal because of Robinson's history. He was released from the Vikings Aug. 26, 11 days after he was caught driving 100 mph in a 55 mph zone on his way back to the Vikings' training camp in Mankato, Minn.

Robinson refused to stop and was eventually arrested. His blood-alcohol content was measured by the police at 0.11 percent.

Because his arrest might be a third violation of the league's policy, Robinson faces a one-year suspension. However, he will be able to appeal if the league chooses to do so and for the time being he is eligible to play.

Keels wouldn't comment on the possibility of suspension other than to say it was a matter that the NFL and the players association were handling. He also wouldn't say whether Robinson has sought further treatment for alcohol abuse.

The 6-foot-1, 205-pound Robinson has caught 235 passes for 2514 yards (15.0 average) for 13 touchdowns in five seasons in the NFL. His best year was 2002 when he caught 78 passes for 1,240 yards and five touchdowns.

The deal Robinson was signed to was believed to be two years in length and worth only the minimum base salary this season. The Packers won't be obligated to pay him the whole salary if they decide to release him anytime this season.

[BallHawk]

Rastak, no question what he did was irresponsible and completely disgraceful, but as a locker room guy I have no problem with. If there is any shit going on with K-Rob again, than TT should cut him. If he can get over his alcohol problem, than he could return to #1 form again, but once again, that is a BIG if.

[BananaMan]

I agree with the move 100%. Nice job, TT.

[Guiness]

wow do I not know what to think. No question, he's the best talent available out there. But, I'd really like to know what makes TT think he's going to behave now.

I think I'd like to believe that TT is picking him up for 2-3 games as a rent-a-player.

As far as roster #'s, was Hawkins replaced?

[Scott Campbell]

Are you telling me only black players commit crimes and white players are all fine and dandy citizens?


I think it's safe to speak for Harvey when I say this thread is as good a place as any to solve the worlds race issues.

[falco]

wow do I not know what to think. No question, he's the best talent available out there. But, I'd really like to know what makes TT think he's going to behave now.

I think I'd like to believe that TT is picking him up for 2-3 games as a rent-a-player.

As far as roster #'s, was Hawkins replaced?

Hawkins was put on IR on cutdown day, he never counted against the 53.

If we sign KR, we have to release someone else.

[Fosco33]

I agree with the move 100%. Nice job, TT.

I guarantee Brett has a little more bounce in his step today - he got what he asked for months and months ago...

I looked on packers.com and we're at 53 (at least as of yesterday). Can we send the 4th TE to practice squad (and if that's maxed, let one of the young guys walk)?

[falco]

I agree with the move 100%. Nice job, TT.

I guarantee Brett has a little more bounce in his step today - he got what he asked for months and months ago...

I looked on packers.com and we're at 53 (at least as of yesterday). Can we send the 4th TE to practice squad (and if that's maxed, let one of the young guys walk)?

Fosco, there's a lot of players who could hit the road after yesterday's performance...I'm not so sure TT doesn't make an example of someone to make room for KR. Remember Joey Thomas?

[Rastak]

Rastak, no question what he did was irresponsible and completely disgraceful, but as a locker room guy I have no problem with. If there is any shit going on with K-Rob again, than TT should cut him. If he can get over his alcohol problem, than he could return to #1 form again, but once again, that is a BIG if.


Well, he'll be going to jail on that probabtion violation, probably on the felony and he'll be kicked out of the NFL for a year....so TT doesn;t need to worry asbout cutting him if he screws up, he already did.


I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....

[Fosco33]

I agree with the move 100%. Nice job, TT.

I guarantee Brett has a little more bounce in his step today - he got what he asked for months and months ago...

I looked on packers.com and we're at 53 (at least as of yesterday). Can we send the 4th TE to practice squad (and if that's maxed, let one of the young guys walk)?

Fosco, there's a lot of players who could hit the road after yesterday's performance...I'm not so sure TT doesn't make an example of someone to make room for KR. Remember Joey Thomas?

True that - but we don't have a lot of options just to prove a point. I say he lets the practice squad TE go (Alcorn) and moves Humphrey down to PS.

[Scott Campbell]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

[Scott Campbell]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

[Rastak]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.



:lol:

[mission]

Purely from a football standpoint this is a big move for the team. Replacing Gado and Noah "Snail" Herron with KR makes our kick return game 1000 times better.

This certainly throws the whole "Packer People" bullshit out the window.


What they meant by Packer People:

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/08/18/2006-08-18T031223Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKEN-UK-GIBSON.jpg


I didn't think of that....so Packer People are guys facing one year suspensions, one year in jail for probabtion violation and a felony?


Jesus H.

if we only signed "packer people" we'd have a team of white i-cant-make-any-plays players named brady. :razz:


Are you telling me only black players commit crimes and white players are all fine and dandy citizens?

yeah, being of mixed race, i often throw around blanket racial stereotypes such as that.

actually, if anything, i meant to say that white people are generally not very athletic.

if you wanted to pull out the stereotype from my words at least........

nice try, though.

try smiling. it's fun, and lightens the mood.

[Joemailman]

Given Koren's tenuous situation and the fact we only have 4 other WR, I think we need to keep Fergie. If someone offers us something outlandish, well that's a different story.

Who do you get rid of then?

We currently have 4 TE's on the roster. Probably Martin or Humphrey go.

[Fosco33]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

He was 0.11 - that's less than 4 drinks. How many of you can honestly admit to never driving after 4 beers - I know I can't and got caught as a young man (luckily w/o a DUI)?

Now, since he's done it a few times - it's a dif't question.

In the words of Mitch Hedberg, "Alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having. You don't hear people saying, "Jim, you're an asshole, you have cancer.""

Let's also remember, Favre used to play high - for like a year or more. And he admitted being extremely hungover for a college game (he still won and said that would never happen again).

Let's hope he gets his act together, stays away from Barnett's club, gets a permanent driver and gets lucky by staying out of jail/suspension. That's all we can ask.

[vince]

Not surprising... It just didn't make sense to go into the year with 4 wr's and no legitimate kick returners...

I am not overly excited about this, as there are serious concerns, but FWIW, I'll welcome him with an open mind.

There can be no question that, strictly in terms of cost per lb. of talent, this is the deal of the century.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out...

[Rastak]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

He was 0.11 - that's less than 4 drinks. How many of you can honestly admit to never driving after 4 beers - I know I can't and got caught as a young man (luckily w/o a DUI)?

Now, since he's done it a few times - it's a dif't question.

In the words of Mitch Hedberg, "Alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having. You don't hear people saying, "Jim, you're an asshole, you have cancer.""

Let's also remember, Favre used to play high - for like a year or more. And he admitted being extremely hungover for a college game (he still won and said that would never happen again).

Let's hope he gets his act together, stays away from Barnett's club, gets a permanent driver and gets lucky by staying out of jail/suspension. That's all we can ask.


If Jim drives 120 fleeing police while having cancer I would definately call him an asshole.

[vince]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

He was 0.11 - that's less than 4 drinks. How many of you can honestly admit to never driving after 4 beers - I know I can't and got caught as a young man (luckily w/o a DUI)?

Now, since he's done it a few times - it's a dif't question.

In the words of Mitch Hedberg, "Alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having. You don't hear people saying, "Jim, you're an asshole, you have cancer.""

Let's also remember, Favre used to play high - for like a year or more. And he admitted being extremely hungover for a college game (he still won and said that would never happen again).

Let's hope he gets his act together, stays away from Barnett's club, gets a permanent driver and gets lucky by staying out of jail/suspension. That's all we can ask.


If Jim drives 120 fleeing police while having cancer I would definately call him an asshole.
Ras, he obvioulsy used poor judgement, something people who have drank too much have a tendency to do. When he's sober, I've not heard about any character problems with him...

Have you?

[Fosco33]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

He was 0.11 - that's less than 4 drinks. How many of you can honestly admit to never driving after 4 beers - I know I can't and got caught as a young man (luckily w/o a DUI)?

Now, since he's done it a few times - it's a dif't question.

In the words of Mitch Hedberg, "Alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having. You don't hear people saying, "Jim, you're an asshole, you have cancer.""

Let's also remember, Favre used to play high - for like a year or more. And he admitted being extremely hungover for a college game (he still won and said that would never happen again).

Let's hope he gets his act together, stays away from Barnett's club, gets a permanent driver and gets lucky by staying out of jail/suspension. That's all we can ask.


If Jim drives 120 fleeing police while having cancer I would definately call him an asshole.

:lol: Maybe he had a chemo appt to catch... Bad joke - cancer isn't funny and neither is driving that fast while drunk.

KRob was trying to skirt responsibility by not getting caught - my guess if he hadn't had another DUI, he would've pulled over. Seriously though, why is this guy still driving - he could have a fricken stretch Hummer and a driver everyday and never worry about this stuff?

[Rastak]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

He was 0.11 - that's less than 4 drinks. How many of you can honestly admit to never driving after 4 beers - I know I can't and got caught as a young man (luckily w/o a DUI)?

Now, since he's done it a few times - it's a dif't question.

In the words of Mitch Hedberg, "Alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having. You don't hear people saying, "Jim, you're an asshole, you have cancer.""

Let's also remember, Favre used to play high - for like a year or more. And he admitted being extremely hungover for a college game (he still won and said that would never happen again).

Let's hope he gets his act together, stays away from Barnett's club, gets a permanent driver and gets lucky by staying out of jail/suspension. That's all we can ask.


If Jim drives 120 fleeing police while having cancer I would definately call him an asshole.
Ras, he obvioulsy used poor judgement, something people who have drank too much have a tendency to do. When he's sober, I've not heard about any character problems with him...

Have you?

A very nice guy that uses appauling judgement....showing up drunk at jail was good, then driving 120 fleeing police is another......

[CaptainKickass]

Just the place for a drunk to end up.

Wisconsin!

:crazy:

[Rastak]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

He was 0.11 - that's less than 4 drinks. How many of you can honestly admit to never driving after 4 beers - I know I can't and got caught as a young man (luckily w/o a DUI)?

Now, since he's done it a few times - it's a dif't question.

In the words of Mitch Hedberg, "Alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having. You don't hear people saying, "Jim, you're an asshole, you have cancer.""

Let's also remember, Favre used to play high - for like a year or more. And he admitted being extremely hungover for a college game (he still won and said that would never happen again).

Let's hope he gets his act together, stays away from Barnett's club, gets a permanent driver and gets lucky by staying out of jail/suspension. That's all we can ask.


If Jim drives 120 fleeing police while having cancer I would definately call him an asshole.

:lol: Maybe he had a chemo appt to catch... Bad joke - cancer isn't funny and neither is driving that fast while drunk.

KRob was trying to skirt responsibility by not getting caught - my guess if he hadn't had another DUI, he would've pulled over. Seriously though, why is this guy still driving - he could have a fricken stretch Hummer and a driver everyday and never worry about this stuff?


A damn fine question.

One would think.....

[BallHawk]

At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

When GB is racing to the store to get munchies for her friends, for game time, there ain't nothing that stops here. :wink:

[No Mo Moss]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

He was 0.11 - that's less than 4 drinks. How many of you can honestly admit to never driving after 4 beers - I know I can't and got caught as a young man (luckily w/o a DUI)?


Before last night I would have said I can.

[Rastak]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

He was 0.11 - that's less than 4 drinks. How many of you can honestly admit to never driving after 4 beers - I know I can't and got caught as a young man (luckily w/o a DUI)?


Before last night I would have said I can.

LOL......

[wist43]

http://www.celluloid-dreams.de/content/images/kritiken-filmbilder/lost-highway/lost-highway-2.jpg

:shock: wtf is that?

More shots of Packer People.

Robert Blake as "the mystery man" in Lost Highway.

http://blogs.salon.com/0002003/images/blake.jpg

That was a pretty freaky movie.

[Patler]

The question has been raised about who will be released to make room on the roster. There are two areas of "overload".

WR/TE with a possible 9.
DT with 6. That is an extraordinary number of tackles, although I suspect one or more are being schooled as DEs, where the #s are low.

With the injuries to Coston, Henderson, and Blackmon, I can't see a reduction at OL, RB or DB. The only other possible is Tracy White..

[vince]

Just the place for a drunk to end up.

Wisconsin!

:crazy:
This is purely a guess, as I've never partied with K-Rob, but I'd bet that hanging out at the local watering hole after work with the meat packers ain't his gig...

I'd guess that a big city environment would pose a more serious temptation... again, just a guess...

[Fosco33]

The question has been raised about who will be released to make room on the roster. There are two areas of "overload".

WR/TE with a possible 9.
DT with 6. That is an extraordinary number of tackles, although I suspect one or more are being schooled as DEs, where the #s are low.

With the injuries to Coston, Henderson, and Blackmon, I can't see a reduction at OL, RB or DB. The only other possible is Tracy White..

They better not mess w/ Jolly :lol:

[vince]

The question has been raised about who will be released to make room on the roster. There are two areas of "overload".

WR/TE with a possible 9.
DT with 6. That is an extraordinary number of tackles, although I suspect one or more are being schooled as DEs, where the #s are low.

With the injuries to Coston, Henderson, and Blackmon, I can't see a reduction at OL, RB or DB. The only other possible is Tracy White..
My guess is Tory Humphries is gone tomorrow.

[Fosco33]

The question has been raised about who will be released to make room on the roster. There are two areas of "overload".

WR/TE with a possible 9.
DT with 6. That is an extraordinary number of tackles, although I suspect one or more are being schooled as DEs, where the #s are low.

With the injuries to Coston, Henderson, and Blackmon, I can't see a reduction at OL, RB or DB. The only other possible is Tracy White..
My guess is Tory Humphries is gone tomorrow.

Alcorn will be gone; Humphreys to PS.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm with Ras. We have enough problems on this team.

On a related note, Courtney Love will be singing the national anthem for the Saints game.

[vince]

The question has been raised about who will be released to make room on the roster. There are two areas of "overload".

WR/TE with a possible 9.
DT with 6. That is an extraordinary number of tackles, although I suspect one or more are being schooled as DEs, where the #s are low.

With the injuries to Coston, Henderson, and Blackmon, I can't see a reduction at OL, RB or DB. The only other possible is Tracy White..
My guess is Tory Humphries is gone tomorrow.

Alcorn will be gone; Humphreys to PS.
Right. That could happen too. :wink: And it's Humphrey, not Humphries. My bad.

[Jimx29]

The question has been raised about who will be released to make room on the roster. There are two areas of "overload".

WR/TE with a possible 9.
DT with 6. That is an extraordinary number of tackles, although I suspect one or more are being schooled as DEs, where the #s are low.

With the injuries to Coston, Henderson, and Blackmon, I can't see a reduction at OL, RB or DB. The only other possible is Tracy White..
See Ya later Fergie :wavesgoodbye:

[red]

eyyyyyyyyyyyyy

its hard to figure this one out

is he a good player and will he help this team when he's on the field? absolutely

but can he be trusted and are we able to count on him? no

one thing i read a week ago or so, over at packerchatters, i think by flipout, who i think said he was in the justice field. is that his hearing in washington will probably get pushed back to sometime in the offseason, at that point he's looking at around 3 months of jail time for the violation of his probation. and i guess the courts are very helpfull in fitting this time into peoples schedule, so he shouldn't have a problem getting that time in during the offseason. but then he will probably have a hearing in minnesota, now they could say he's served his time and just let him go, or they could give him a few more months of jail time.

still he could be done with any jail time by the start of next years preseason, or sometime during it.

now i read somewhere else that the league will not take action until all the court dates are over with. so IF he gets suspended at all it might not happen until next year

now on to the substance abuse problem. can you really suspend a guy for the whole year because he had 4 or 5 beers? i would say a very large chunk of nfl players and coaches and front office people drink. i would think someone would put up a huge fuss about the guy getting suspended for a whole year because he did what most other nfl people do.

his crime wasn't that he drank, it was that he drove after he drank, and lead cops on a chase. thats something that should be suspendable, but not for a year, and not under the substance abuse thing IMO

if your going to suspend a guy because he drinks, then you damn well better suspend 90% of the nfl



oh yeah, my guess is herron or david martin are gone

and i have picked up k-rob on my FF team lol

[Rastak]

eyyyyyyyyyyyyy

its hard to figure this one out

is he a good player and will he help this team when he's on the field? absolutely

but can he be trusted and are we able to count on him? no

one thing i read a week ago or so, over at packerchatters, i think by flipout, who i think said he was in the justice field. is that his hearing in washington will probably get pushed back to sometime in the offseason, at that point he's looking at around 3 months of jail time for the violation of his probation. and i guess the courts are very helpfull in fitting this time into peoples schedule, so he shouldn't have a problem getting that time in during the offseason. but then he will probably have a hearing in minnesota, now they could say he's served his time and just let him go, or they could give him a few more months of jail time.

still he could be done with any jail time by the start of next years preseason, or sometime during it.

now i read somewhere else that the league will not take action until all the court dates are over with. so IF he gets suspended at all it might not happen until next year

now on to the substance abuse problem. can you really suspend a guy for the whole year because he had 4 or 5 beers? i would say a very large chunk of nfl players and coaches and front office people drink. i would think someone would put up a huge fuss about the guy getting suspended for a whole year because he did what most other nfl people do.

his crime wasn't that he drank, it was that he drove after he drank, and lead cops on a chase. thats something that should be suspendable, but not for a year, and not under the substance abuse thing IMO

if your going to suspend a guy because he drinks, then you damn well better suspend 90% of the nfl



oh yeah, my guess is herron or david martin are gone

and i have picked up k-rob on my FF team lol

Red, he agreed to stay sober as a condition of employment with the NFL due to several alcohol related crimes. He didn't and he'll soon be fired for a year.

[AtlPackFan]

I'm with Ras. We have enough problems on this team.

On a related note, Courtney Love will be singing the national anthem for the Saints game.

Really??? Courtney??? :razz:

[red]

Red, he agreed to stay sober as a condition of employment with the NFL due to several alcohol related crimes. He didn't and he'll soon be fired for a year.

you're just bitter because he's going to tell us all the queens secrets

[Rastak]

Red, he agreed to stay sober as a condition of employment with the NFL due to several alcohol related crimes. He didn't and he'll soon be fired for a year.

you're just bitter because he's going to tell us all the queens secrets


He was too fucking hammered to remember any of them.....enjoy having him...LOL....

[AtlPackFan]

At least the Packers are protected contractwise. He can step in short-term and provide a boost to the return game and maybe help at receiver. Then when the hammer drops, hopefully Blackmon will be ready to roll and Jennings has his game feet.

I remember Wolf taking a couple fliers out on players that were on suspension (D-Back, can't remember his name) and also brought the much maligned Rison in. Some work out some don't. If Koren gets his act together, it willeventually be a very good pick-up. If not, well no harm financially and he isnt a child rapist.

Wow, that is good news that the Packers are protected contractwise. That way if Koren goes out, gets drunk and then kills someone in an accident the Packers won't have to pay him. Whew! Glad we don't have to worry about that.

Sorry folks, I agree with Rastak on this one. Dealing with head cases like Moss and TO are one thing, dealing with substance abusers - especiallly abusers who COULD be dangerous to others - is a whole nother ball game.

A couple of other notes...
1. I also believe in second chances - Koren has had his!
2. Do you really think taking his driver's license away and hiring him a driver is going to keep him from driving if he feels like it? Don't think so.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm not sure that Wisconsin is the best destination for a recovering alchoholic.

[MadtownPacker]

Hey Madtown, since nobody got hurt....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What you talking about TL?

The guy is a mess, fine, just get him in the shower, scrub all the purple off him and throw his ass out there. After yesterday I dont care if they sign olinemen outta prison, at least you know they will be in shape!

[Rastak]

Hey Madtown, since nobody got hurt....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What you talking about TL?

The guy is a mess, fine, just get him in the shower, scrub all the purple off him and throw his ass out there. After yesterday I dont care if they sign olinemen outta prison, at least you know they will be in shape!


The dude can return kicks when sober, I'll give him that. Since he decided treatment wasn't needed you better hope he's not smelling of elderberries in team meetings.

[red]

i would hope as part of his new deal he gets a fulltime driver and a nanny, and he has to have piss tests done everyday. and if theres any trace of alcohol, he's gone

[MadtownPacker]

Well if this doesnt work out for him there's always the raiders. :lol:

[Packnut]

Once again several here miss the point. Forget about the question of if this guy should have been signed and focus on the question of why are we in this position to begin with? I think TT had a reasonable amount of time to find a KR but he views the postion much the way he views the O line- anyone can do it..............

[Scott Campbell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We get the point. Fire Ted.

[Scott Campbell]

By the way, were in need of a ghost writer for Ted Is Trapped In The Closet - Chapter 73. Any takers?

[Kiwon]

This is one of the few moves that TT's made that I feel good about.

[Scott Campbell]

This is one of the few moves that TT's made that I feel good about.

I'll drink to that!

[Guiness]

It doesn't matter if he stays sober now - he's already been caught. Unless there's a magical bullet out there, like it was his identical twin and not him, he'll soon be done.

It doesn't even matter if he broke the law or not. He was in the NFL's substance abuse program. As soon as he was caught having a drink, he was going to be suspended. Doesn't matter if he was having that drink sitting as his own kitchen table.

[vince]

It doesn't matter if he stays sober now - he's already been caught. Unless there's a magical bullet out there, like it was his identical twin and not him, he'll soon be done.

It doesn't even matter if he broke the law or not. He was in the NFL's substance abuse program. As soon as he was caught having a drink, he was going to be suspended. Doesn't matter if he was having that drink sitting as his own kitchen table.
Yeah, he's facing suspension... The question is 'when?' My guess is that the Packers did their due diligence and found that chances are, he won't be suspended real soon... Andrew Brandt is a very astute attorney and handles all football-related legal matters for the team. He has an impecable background in player representation, in addition to his salary cap management expertise... The Packers didn't go into this without knowing what they were getting...

[Rastak]

It doesn't matter if he stays sober now - he's already been caught. Unless there's a magical bullet out there, like it was his identical twin and not him, he'll soon be done.

It doesn't even matter if he broke the law or not. He was in the NFL's substance abuse program. As soon as he was caught having a drink, he was going to be suspended. Doesn't matter if he was having that drink sitting as his own kitchen table.
Yeah, he's facing suspension... The question is 'when?' My guess is that the Packers did their due diligence and found that chances are, he won't be suspended real soon... Andrew Brandt is a very astute attorney and handles all football-related legal matters for the team. He has an impecable background in player representation, in addition to his salary cap management expertise... The Packers didn't go into this without knowing what they were getting...


So which happens first, jail or nfl suspension?

[Patler]

It doesn't matter if he stays sober now - he's already been caught. Unless there's a magical bullet out there, like it was his identical twin and not him, he'll soon be done.

It doesn't even matter if he broke the law or not. He was in the NFL's substance abuse program. As soon as he was caught having a drink, he was going to be suspended. Doesn't matter if he was having that drink sitting as his own kitchen table.

Pro sports have struggled with alcohol amd substance abuse. For illegal drugs, its easy. Any nonprescription use is substance abuse. But drinking is not illegal. Getting drunk is not necessarily illegal. So when does the perfectly legal act of drinking become "substance abuse" subject to league discipline?

If KR was under a "no drinking - at all" condition from the league it may be an easy situation for the league to rule. If he wasn't, there may be a "compromise" that is less than the year suspension.

[vince]

It doesn't matter if he stays sober now - he's already been caught. Unless there's a magical bullet out there, like it was his identical twin and not him, he'll soon be done.

It doesn't even matter if he broke the law or not. He was in the NFL's substance abuse program. As soon as he was caught having a drink, he was going to be suspended. Doesn't matter if he was having that drink sitting as his own kitchen table.
Yeah, he's facing suspension... The question is 'when?' My guess is that the Packers did their due diligence and found that chances are, he won't be suspended real soon... Andrew Brandt is a very astute attorney and handles all football-related legal matters for the team. He has an impecable background in player representation, in addition to his salary cap management expertise... The Packers didn't go into this without knowing what they were getting...


So which happens first, jail or nfl suspension?
I have no idea, but I bet the Packers do... They know when it'll probably come down, how much, where, and when he'll need to serve time and suspension...and they decided to sign him. Reading into that tells me that it will not happen within the next few weeks, and may not happen until the offseason...

[Guiness]

Well - jail can be staved off for a bit, anyways. Lots of ways to slow down the court system for a couple of months.

I'm seriously surprised the NFL hasn't moved yet. Generally in situations like this, they suspend first, and wait for an appeal later. Anyone have any clue why they haven't done this yet?

[red]

Well - jail can be staved off for a bit, anyways. Lots of ways to slow down the court system for a couple of months.

I'm seriously surprised the NFL hasn't moved yet. Generally in situations like this, they suspend first, and wait for an appeal later. Anyone have any clue why they haven't done this yet?

they can't do anything yet.

he has to have his court date first to determine if anything wrong did take place. then if he's found guilty of the charges, the nfl can make its decision based on that

until his court date i don't think he's guilty of anything. innocent until proven guilty

i've also read a couple of diferent things on this. there seems to be some conflicting reports about the incident. i just got done reading that he was clocked doing 104 on the highway, and that the cop was unable to keep up with him, and radioed ahead for help. now if the cop is stoped and clocking people, or if he's driving the other way, then he's going to have a real tuff time catching up with a car doing 104 in the first place. so there is a chance like i've said before that k-rob never knew there was a cop behind him. the cop radioed ahead for backup, and 10 miles down the road some other cops intercepted him and he pulled over and went inro custody with no fight. now the article i read said that he was given a blood test after he was taken in and that his BAC was .09, even though it was put down in the report that the field test was .11. this is something they might be able to fight in court, and maybe even get dropped if the judge is nice enough to let .01 go. now if the police chase went down like i said, they could fight that to, and say he really wasn't running from the cops, because he never knew they were back there, and when he did see a cop 10 miles later he gave up with no fight. if those get thrown out then you are just looking at the wreakless driving, and a loss of you licence

of course, this is the US court system, they might allow him to just plead guilty to the lesser charge and drop the others, and make him do community service

and as i said before, i think the nfl would have one hell of a fight on their hands if they try to suspend a guy for a year for doing what everyone else in the nfl is allowed to do. they could give him a seperate smaller suspension for breaking the law. but i think the union would go down kicking and scratching on this one

they could literaly drag this out for a long time

[RIPackerFan]

This is a good signing. Why:

1) We will have him at least 1.5 months before his trial. The NFL will not pose judgement on a pending case (since it will "taint" the jury) so we will have him until his case is tried (which more than likely be in the offseason.

2) We have a KR and a legit #2. This will help Jennings get a little more aclimated to playing the pro-game. Also, a 4 reciever set, with Driver, Jennings, KRob and Ferguson doesn't sound so bad.

3) Its WI people. If there is one place that can understand DUIs, its WI. I believe it is one of the few states (maybe only one) where it is illegal for the police to do DUI checkpoints. And the penalties for DUI are some of the least severe in the nation. I do not know one of my friends who has not driven after a few beers (and two beers in a half an hour will give you a .11 BAC).

4) We will get the scoop on the Vikings. Sorry this is cheap, but I will take every advantage I can get.

5) The contract was structured so that we basically lose nothing if we cut him.

Frankly, I think he is a better football player than Branch (who Seattle had to give a #1 and big money to).

While it is a risk, it seems worth taking. That's my take.

[RashanGary]

I think Koren Robinson gives us 1 more win this year...

Shoot, I want a top 5 pick.

I'm rooting for losses. I love when the Pack do well and I will enjoy wins. I want them to try their damndest and win as many as possible but when they lose, I keep smiling because I know we have another big pick coming. We could use some more playmakers.

[Patler]

Well - jail can be staved off for a bit, anyways. Lots of ways to slow down the court system for a couple of months.

I'm seriously surprised the NFL hasn't moved yet. Generally in situations like this, they suspend first, and wait for an appeal later. Anyone have any clue why they haven't done this yet?

The NFL moves quicky with players who fail the NFL administered screening tests. When its in a drug situation totally in legal system the league usually holds off until the outcome. They don't want to get caught having suspended a player who is subsequently found not guilty. The league administered tests have pre-approved conditions between the league and the NFLPA.

As far as the league is concerned, its only an allegation at this point.

[red]

if they go to court and plead guilty to all the other chages as long as the DWI gets thrown out, then can the league do anything anbout the drinking?

if that gets thrown out, is it erased for good? or can the nfl still use that as a positive test?

can the nfl even use it as a possitive test in the first place, or does the nfl have to do the test?

[Rastak]

if they go to court and plead guilty to all the other chages as long as the DWI gets thrown out, then can the league do anything anbout the drinking?

if that gets thrown out, is it erased for good? or can the nfl still use that as a positive test?

can the nfl even use it as a possitive test in the first place, or does the nfl have to do the test?

Red, you aren't getting this are you. He is fucked. Period, he has no leg to stand on in any of the three things he is facing.....

[KYPack]

Well, we know the guy is "Packer Party People", anyhow.

We have quite a few spots with nobody in 'em, at least this'll fill one hole.

[Scott Campbell]

So why did Thompson sign him then?

[RIPackerFan]

He is screwed like OJ was :D

Sorry, but until the trial, nothing is set in stone.

I do think eventually he will miss some time, but I don't think it will be until the end of the year (if this year at all).

[BF4MVP]

Good!

I don't care about his legal history. I'm sorry, it may be wrong, but I don't! I want to win! K-Rob CAN help.

Our kick returners are BY FAR THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. While I was at the game I was telling my wife "no other GM in the NFL would have Gado and Herron as their kick returners. It's pathetic!" I called them the turtle team!

I wonder if he is going to get suspended?

Will Blackmon, I reckon he's equally as agile and shifty as Devin Hester.
I think Blackmon will be a HELL of a player. He came within 200-some-odd yards of the Division 1A record for kickoff return yardage, so obviously he can return kicks.

I also see him eventually starting at corner. Harris and Woodson are a very nice tandem for now, but neither one of them is young, by any means. Blackmon has the tools to be a good corner (good speed, ball skills).

It's just a shame we haven't gotten to see him on the field yet. Maybe next week?

Once Blackmon gains some experience, and if Carroll can get his act together and learn to trust his ability instead of always grabbing the receiver, it wouldn't be out of the question to see Blackmon and Carroll as our starting CB tandem a few years down the road.

[falco]

if they go to court and plead guilty to all the other chages as long as the DWI gets thrown out, then can the league do anything anbout the drinking?

if that gets thrown out, is it erased for good? or can the nfl still use that as a positive test?

can the nfl even use it as a possitive test in the first place, or does the nfl have to do the test?

Red, you aren't getting this are you. He is fucked. Period, he has no leg to stand on in any of the three things he is facing.....

Give it up Rastak...we're going to cling to whatever we can. :mrgreen:

[Rastak]

if they go to court and plead guilty to all the other chages as long as the DWI gets thrown out, then can the league do anything anbout the drinking?

if that gets thrown out, is it erased for good? or can the nfl still use that as a positive test?

can the nfl even use it as a possitive test in the first place, or does the nfl have to do the test?

Red, you aren't getting this are you. He is fucked. Period, he has no leg to stand on in any of the three things he is facing.....

Give it up Rastak...we're going to cling to whatever we can. :mrgreen:


Good point Falco..... l leave you to your delusions...where is SOV when I need him.,.I'd like to hand the torch to him and back out of this.......

[falco]

if they go to court and plead guilty to all the other chages as long as the DWI gets thrown out, then can the league do anything anbout the drinking?

if that gets thrown out, is it erased for good? or can the nfl still use that as a positive test?

can the nfl even use it as a possitive test in the first place, or does the nfl have to do the test?

Red, you aren't getting this are you. He is fucked. Period, he has no leg to stand on in any of the three things he is facing.....

Give it up Rastak...we're going to cling to whatever we can. :mrgreen:


Good point Falco..... l leave you to your delusions...where is SOV when I need him.,.I'd like to hand the torch to him and back out of this.......

You know what the worst part of all this is? I'm sure there was a point last season when all the vikes fans changed their opinion on KR, thinking he was a changed man, only to be let down this offseason.

Even if he does well this year and appears to have turned things around, we're all just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Patler]

Anyone know what the blood alcohal legal limit is in MN?

[Bretsky]

Good!

I don't care about his legal history. I'm sorry, it may be wrong, but I don't! I want to win! K-Rob CAN help.

Our kick returners are BY FAR THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. While I was at the game I was telling my wife "no other GM in the NFL would have Gado and Herron as their kick returners. It's pathetic!" I called them the turtle team!

I wonder if he is going to get suspended?

Will Blackmon, I reckon he's equally as agile and shifty as Devin Hester.

IMO Hester is a huge step above as a return guy over Blackmon

[b bulldog]

jason Wilde pretty much called this dead on. He said a day or so after the Bears game that Krob would be signed.

[RashanGary]

IMO Hester is a huge step above as a return guy over Blackmon

I agree.

[Bretsky]

In principal I cannot stand the signing; then I think about the game I attended yesterday. Just utterly terrible; I've been attending games for about 30Yrs and I thought that was one of the worst if not the worst performance I've witnessed since the 80's.

Then I ponder all the good things I thought we'd do with all the extra cap money. We still sit on 7MIL; we grossly overpaid Woodson.........but with all that cap space to use.......I said.......why not give it a try. Same here for me. It's worth a shot.

[red]

He is screwed like OJ was :D

Sorry, but until the trial, nothing is set in stone.

I do think eventually he will miss some time, but I don't think it will be until the end of the year (if this year at all).

this is what i'm talking about rastak

he fucked up, but he is not fucked yet

if my time on this planet has taught me anything, its that the right lawyers can beat our legal system, no matter what the charge is

he screwed up bad, but i don't think for a second he'll do a lot of time in jail, maybe some, but not a lot

and his lawyers, agent and the union will fight a suspension

its not set in stone that he will go to jail, or be suspended at this point. and we cold get the rest of the year out of him before anything does happen

[red]

Good!

I don't care about his legal history. I'm sorry, it may be wrong, but I don't! I want to win! K-Rob CAN help.

Our kick returners are BY FAR THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. While I was at the game I was telling my wife "no other GM in the NFL would have Gado and Herron as their kick returners. It's pathetic!" I called them the turtle team!

I wonder if he is going to get suspended?

Will Blackmon, I reckon he's equally as agile and shifty as Devin Hester.

IMO Hester is a huge step above as a return guy over Blackmon

so you've watched a lot of blackmon returning kicks in college?

[Partial]

Good!

I don't care about his legal history. I'm sorry, it may be wrong, but I don't! I want to win! K-Rob CAN help.

Our kick returners are BY FAR THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. While I was at the game I was telling my wife "no other GM in the NFL would have Gado and Herron as their kick returners. It's pathetic!" I called them the turtle team!

I wonder if he is going to get suspended?

Will Blackmon, I reckon he's equally as agile and shifty as Devin Hester.

IMO Hester is a huge step above as a return guy over Blackmon

I don't know about that. Blackmon was one of the leaders in college football for this, was he not? I guess we will have to see.

[Partial]

Good!

I don't care about his legal history. I'm sorry, it may be wrong, but I don't! I want to win! K-Rob CAN help.

Our kick returners are BY FAR THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. While I was at the game I was telling my wife "no other GM in the NFL would have Gado and Herron as their kick returners. It's pathetic!" I called them the turtle team!

I wonder if he is going to get suspended?

Will Blackmon, I reckon he's equally as agile and shifty as Devin Hester.

IMO Hester is a huge step above as a return guy over Blackmon

so you've watched a lot of blackmon returning kicks in college?


My thougths exactly Red

[mraynrand]

Remember when drunks used to be so much FUN? Like Uncle Billy in "It's a wonderful life", stumbling over garbage can's yelling "I'm all right, I'm all right." on his way home to blissful oblivion.


Where it's really fun is when your friend gets clobbered by a drunk driving 90 mph through a red light, killing her husband and two children, and you get to be the one to tell her about when she wakes up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Why are you telling her and not her family (Parents and sisters)? Well, they were all killed by a drunk when she was in college. So yes, I'm all in favor of the Koren Robinson aquisition, who cares if the happy-go-lucky guy wants to party it up and drived stoned - just so long as he can catch a TD pass on Sunday. Yay Packers!

[Bretsky]

I've watched Boston College play and I've watched Miami play; so yes I've seen both. Hester was the best return man coming out of college; most scouting report that know more than any of us are better sources. Green Bay found out the hard way yesterday.

[Noodle]

Anyone know what the blood alcohal legal limit is in MN?

The stuff I've seen says that every state in the union is at .08 now. Minnesota was one of the last to go to the .08 limit, but that's what it is now, according to my sources.

[GBRulz]

I would just advise GB Michele aka GBRulz to be damn careful driving starting right now. This guy is something else with a car.....


At 120 MPH he's never going to catch Michele.

LMAO....

:lol:

[GBRulz]

I'm with B, I'm not too thrilled about the signing, but after seeing us out there yesterday, we need talent, not just bodies.

Perhaps this signing will give us that extra needed spark on offense. Sort of like when we brought Grady over a few years back. You can't deny that he provided an immediate jump to our D..... at this point we can only hope.

On a funnier note....HA...Fergy is demoted further...

[Rastak]

Remember when drunks used to be so much FUN? Like Uncle Billy in "It's a wonderful life", stumbling over garbage can's yelling "I'm all right, I'm all right." on his way home to blissful oblivion.


Where it's really fun is when your friend gets clobbered by a drunk driving 90 mph through a red light, killing her husband and two children, and you get to be the one to tell her about when she wakes up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Why are you telling her and not her family (Parents and sisters)? Well, they were all killed by a drunk when she was in college. So yes, I'm all in favor of the Koren Robinson aquisition, who cares if the happy-go-lucky guy wants to party it up and drived stoned - just so long as he can catch a TD pass on Sunday. Yay Packers!


Someone who gets it.

Let me just say this, he's a great guy. Wouldn't it make sense to wait until he serves his prison time and get's this shit right? I'll try and get off the subject now.....I don't get TT that's all....

[Bretsky]

I'm with B, I'm not too thrilled about the signing, but after seeing us out there yesterday, we need talent, not just bodies.

Perhaps this signing will give us that extra needed spark on offense. Sort of like when we brought Grady over a few years back. You can't deny that he provided an immediate jump to our D..... at this point we can only hope.

On a funnier note....HA...Fergy is demoted further...

Not far enough GBM, not far enough :wink:

[Patler]

Anyone know what the blood alcohal legal limit is in MN?

The stuff I've seen says that every state in the union is at .08 now. Minnesota was one of the last to go to the .08 limit, but that's what it is now, according to my sources.

If the limit is .08 and he tested .09 after being arrested, I can see the "expert argument" now. He had a few and left immediately. His BA level was still rising at the time. Since it was x minutes after the arrest, and alcohol absorption rate into the blood stream is blah, blah blah, when he was driving his level was "only" .0Y (something less than .08) No drunk driving, just a speeding ticket.

Some of this may hinge on testimony of if he was driving irradically, or just very fast. People do beat these things far too often, especially if its close.

[GrnBay007]

Remember when drunks used to be so much FUN? Like Uncle Billy in "It's a wonderful life", stumbling over garbage can's yelling "I'm all right, I'm all right." on his way home to blissful oblivion.


Where it's really fun is when your friend gets clobbered by a drunk driving 90 mph through a red light, killing her husband and two children, and you get to be the one to tell her about when she wakes up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Why are you telling her and not her family (Parents and sisters)? Well, they were all killed by a drunk when she was in college. So yes, I'm all in favor of the Koren Robinson aquisition, who cares if the happy-go-lucky guy wants to party it up and drived stoned - just so long as he can catch a TD pass on Sunday. Yay Packers!

That's very sad situation mraynrand. I can understand your anger/frustration/outrage. What drives this type of person's actions, who knows. I guess in this case (signing) we hope for the best. We hope a change of life situation/atmosphere/another chance will do the trick. I'm a believer that people can change....I witnessed it far to many times to believe it can't happen. I hope he turns his life around....for himself and his family, for the GB Packers, but most importantly for some poor innocent person that will be hurt by his actions if he does not change.

[Rastak]

Anyone know what the blood alcohal legal limit is in MN?

The stuff I've seen says that every state in the union is at .08 now. Minnesota was one of the last to go to the .08 limit, but that's what it is now, according to my sources.

If the limit is .08 and he tested .09 after being arrested, I can see the "expert argument" now. He had a few and left immediately. His BA level was still rising at the time. Since it was x minutes after the arrest, and alcohol absorption rate into the blood stream is blah, blah blah, when he was driving his level was "only" .0Y (something less than .08) No drunk driving, just a speeding ticket.

Some of this may hinge on testimony of if he was driving irradically, or just very fast. People do beat these things far too often, especially if its close.


You gotta be kidding, you are aware of the circumstances? I admire your posts 99% of the time but this is insane....He's sitting on a felony for fleeing the police. He blew a 1.1 . He's sitting on a one year suspention and a probation for the same shit...what the fuck is wrong with you guys?

[superfan]

Is Chewy still in town? Maybe he can be KRob's 24 hour chaperone. :twisted:

I agree that KRob could potentially offer one year of cheap production. However, I don't like the signing. Removing the Packer blinders for a minute, if I'd heard any other team signing him, I would think of it as a bad signing. I'm convinced he will be suspended next season, and I doubt he will make it through this season without a regression.

He couldn't have been in a better situation in Minnesota this summer, and still managed to screw it up.

Perhaps this is a calculated move to divert the media attention away from the brutal loss and all the Favre retirement discussion.

[mraynrand]

Some of this may hinge on testimony of if he was driving irradically, or just very fast. People do beat these things far too often, especially if its close.

You're right, they beat these raps too often. Just in today's paper - they finally sentenced a guy to prison for 38 years for manslaughter - guy rolled a little kid on a bike up on and through his windshield - dead kid. How many chances did this guy get - well, he was a 12 TIME DUI offender! But hey, I'm sure everyone has driven drunk from time to time. No worries - unless it's your kid or your family that you're sealing into that pine box FOREVER.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

First time on the net since the morning, and come to find out we signed krob. I don't care how much of a head case he is, I love this signing. KR, PR, and a starting reviever. Brett is probably a lot happier with him on the team, as he should be.

[digitaldean]

Some of this may hinge on testimony of if he was driving irradically, or just very fast. People do beat these things far too often, especially if its close.

You're right, they beat these raps too often. Just in today's paper - they finally sentenced a guy to prison for 38 years for manslaughter - guy rolled a little kid on a bike up on and through his windshield - dead kid. How many chances did this guy get - well, he was a 12 TIME DUI offender! But hey, I'm sure everyone has driven drunk from time to time. No worries - unless it's your kid or your family that you're sealing into that pine box FOREVER.

Diehard Packer fan that I am... I HATE THIS MOVE!

Yes, he has talent. But guess what, he is probably going to get suspended for the year. He also has a suspended sentence in Wash., provided he kept himself out of trouble.

He said in Minn. that he was on the straight and narrow. Result: Even though he knows that 1 more strike takes away a season, he goes on a bender. Gets into a high speed chase with the police.

He says he's in treatment again. All we need is some innocent bystander getting killed because he plows into them with his car when drunk.

Who's his agent, Mossy Cade?

Does he have talent, yes.

Should the Packers have signed him? NO!!!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

What trouble could he possibly get in, in wisconsin? :wink:

[Patler]

You gotta be kidding, you are aware of the circumstances? I admire your posts 99% of the time but this is insane....He's sitting on a felony for fleeing the police. He blew a 1.1 . He's sitting on a one year suspention and a probation for the same shit...what the fuck is wrong with you guys?

Calm down a bit. I didn't say I approve. I was just suggesting what you might hear as an argument. In fact I thought I made it clear that I didn't approve of what he did. Other than Robinson, no one is likely to ever know all the facts. Someone else said the blood test was .09, which might be what the prosecutor will be stuck with rather than the breathalizer's .11.

Believe me, the defense will be something like I said, and what someone else suggested as far as "fleeing". He didn't know he was being chased, they were too far away. Once he realized it, he stopped immediately and cooperated. (AGAIN, NOT SAYING I BELIEVE THIS, but you can expect the argument, or something like it.)

I personally believe OJ is a murderer. But he got off.

Robinson will plead guilty only if he has something worked out as far as the penalty, and maybe even with the league. Otherwise he will fight this because he has too much to lose. If he does fight it you will hear amazing fables and stories, and as I wrote before, TOO OFTEN THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL.

The other reality of this situation is that the NFL has backed out of a lot of suspensions for a number of players when it did not relate to illegal drugs, especially when it is alcohol. The problem is the disease vs. choice situation that surrounds alcoholism. Many businesses struggle with it too, for fear that if it is contested based on being discrimination because of a health condition (alcoholism the disease), their whole drug policy could suffer.

Clearly Robinson needs to be held accountable for whatever a judge or jury determines he is guilty of. But this is likely to play out over many months.

[Guiness]

Well - jail can be staved off for a bit, anyways. Lots of ways to slow down the court system for a couple of months.

I'm seriously surprised the NFL hasn't moved yet. Generally in situations like this, they suspend first, and wait for an appeal later. Anyone have any clue why they haven't done this yet?

The NFL moves quicky with players who fail the NFL administered screening tests. When its in a drug situation totally in legal system the league usually holds off until the outcome. They don't want to get caught having suspended a player who is subsequently found not guilty. The league administered tests have pre-approved conditions between the league and the NFLPA.

As far as the league is concerned, its only an allegation at this point.

Got it - if he'd peed in an NFL official bottle, he'd be suspended now. Because he peed in an unlicensed bottle, they won't recognize it.

Same way they run the rest of their business :D

[CaptainKickass]

Remember when drunks used to be so much FUN? Like Uncle Billy in "It's a wonderful life", stumbling over garbage can's yelling "I'm all right, I'm all right." on his way home to blissful oblivion.


Where it's really fun is when your friend gets clobbered by a drunk driving 90 mph through a red light, killing her husband and two children, and you get to be the one to tell her about when she wakes up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Why are you telling her and not her family (Parents and sisters)? Well, they were all killed by a drunk when she was in college. So yes, I'm all in favor of the Koren Robinson aquisition, who cares if the happy-go-lucky guy wants to party it up and drived stoned - just so long as he can catch a TD pass on Sunday. Yay Packers!

I detect a hint of sarcasm in that there post.

K-Rob = bad character move. Have you guys ever known a repeat DUI offender? I'm talking 3 or more DUI's. Guess what - it's like crack - they can't keep off it and they will continue to offend until they kill or get killed. I don't care how much talent a guy has. :crazy:

What get's me is that in the offseason, TT wouldn't make a move for any other character risks with high talent - such as the most profound WR in the league (T.O.) :crazy: Or how about some O-Line, weren't there some vet's with talent but questionable personalities?

If I'm taking a risk on a high talent low character guy - why in the f'n hell does it have to be this guy? :crazy:

[oregonpackfan]

As Packer fans, we have been debating whether or not this signing is beneficial to the Packers.

Perhaps the question that really needs to be asked is: Is playing pro football at this juncture in his recovery the best thing for Koren Robinson? Is pro football enabling him with his alcholism disease by allowing him to play? Or should he be putting his full attention in reaching and retaining his sobriety?

Perhaps part of his sobriety program is doing what he does best(playing pro football) while trying to get sober. I truly do not know what is the best course of action for this young man.

The bottom line is that he has to get sober and stay sober on a long term basis whether that includes pro football or not.


OPF

[Patler]

Got it - if he'd peed in an NFL official bottle, he'd be suspended now. Because he peed in an unlicensed bottle, they won't recognize it.

Same way they run the rest of their business :D

Yup, that's pretty much it! In some ways it makes some sense. The league and the players association have agreed on procedures for testing and probably even the labs that do the testing. When it falls outside the procedures and facilities, neither side wants to automatically accept it. Almost like an approved supplier to a manufacturer, less paperwork for each individual transaction compared to an unapproved supplier!

[woodbuck27]

Not to spam the thread, but as far as on the field goes, this really helps the team a lot. Assuming he is going to be able to play this year, we now have a decent #2 or #3 receiver and an excellent returner.

Right on move. What do we really have to loose?

Solid Ted ! That's a fine step.

If he goes down in flames that is 100 % on Koren Robinson.The flip side is this may turn his life around. Maybe?

He has a tough battle and "the Packers" to support that. :mrgreen:

Otherwise anyone who risks a DUI is't acting reotely smart.

Getting behind the wheel of a car loaded (now he was at bet. 0.09 and 0.11 depended on the time of testing) so he may have been not exactly loaded but he took a risk that endangered the Publis and that isn't right.

Koren Robinson needs serious help now.
Having something to do that he's more than just OK at will assist him in focusing on a proper recovery fr.alcoholism.

I'm glad that Ted Thomson stepped up in this signing.

Packers ! Fan Faith in 2006 !

[Patler]

As Packer fans, we have been debating whether or not this signing is beneficial to the Packers.

Perhaps the question that really needs to be asked is: Is playing pro football at this juncture in his recovery the best thing for Koren Robinson? Is pro football enabling him with his alcholism disease by allowing him to play? Or should he be putting his full attention in reaching and retaining his sobriety?

Perhaps part of his sobriety program is doing what he does best(playing pro football) while trying to get sober. I truly do not know what is the best course of action for this young man.

The bottom line is that he has to get sober and stay sober on a long term basis whether that includes pro football or not.


OPF

Those are difficult questions. Alcoholism, whether disease or choice is a perplexing condition. I'm sure many if not all of us have personal experiences with it through a friend, relative, neighbor or even ourselves. For some, work is a cause, for others it is a refuge.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I hate this move. It's a disgrace. In my book, this is strike 2 against Thompson. Big deal. He might help to win a game on a kickoff return. We win 5 or 6 games--instead of 4 or 5. Mike McCarthy talks about Packer People and we bring in this guy. Brad Childress and the Vikings say they are going to clean house, and they cut guys like this and suspend Dwight Smith for a game for getting a citation. You don't win in the long run with guys like this. He may be a great guy, but he's failed a drug test, had two DUIs, and ran from police at over 100 MPHs. There's also been reports that he showed up for his DUI trial drunk and other things. He's an alcholic who needs to get his life in order--rather than be coddled yet again.

[GBRulz]

I wonder what the going rate would be for TT's direct # and email addy? :wink:

[Terry]

As Packer fans, we have been debating whether or not this signing is beneficial to the Packers.

Perhaps the question that really needs to be asked is: Is playing pro football at this juncture in his recovery the best thing for Koren Robinson? Is pro football enabling him with his alcholism disease by allowing him to play? Or should he be putting his full attention in reaching and retaining his sobriety?

Perhaps part of his sobriety program is doing what he does best(playing pro football) while trying to get sober. I truly do not know what is the best course of action for this young man.


Exactly! Finally, 8 pages into the thread. Thank you and well said! My questions exactly.

[the_idle_threat]

Right on move. What do we really have to lose?


I'm late to the party here, and most of the cogent points have been made. I'm in complete agreement with superfan, Harv, Rastak, et al. I don't like the signing because I don't think it's worth it in the long run.

What do we have to lose? Well ... nothing on the football field ... but it's just a game. Bringing someone into the community whose life philosophy is "fuck it" could have serious consequences off the football field for some citizens of the community, and that would not be a game.

The real question is ... what do we have to gain, realistically, and is it really worth it? K-Rob will not improve the o-line nor the defensive backfield. Our vets need to get their acts together, and our young guys need to step up. I predict the team will play better after half a dozen games or so, but it will be because these two things have happened, not because we signed this guy out of desperation.

Of course, we do need a kick returner, as Noah Herron has no business playing NFL ball, but I wonder why we targeted K-Rob and not Willie Ponder.

[Joemailman]

I hate this move. It's a disgrace. In my book, this is strike 2 against Thompson. Big deal. He might help to win a game on a kickoff return. We win 5 or 6 games--instead of 4 or 5. Mike McCarthy talks about Packer People and we bring in this guy. Brad Childress and the Vikings say they are going to clean house, and they cut guys like this and suspend Dwight Smith for a game for getting a citation. You don't win in the long run with guys like this. He may be a great guy, but he's failed a drug test, had two DUIs, and ran from police at over 100 MPHs. There's also been reports that he showed up for his DUI trial drunk and other things. He's an alcholic who needs to get his life in order--rather than be coddled yet again.



I too have my doubts about this move. However, I think it is fair to assume that Ted Thompson, who drafted Robinson, knows some things about him that we don't. I wouldn't assume that Robinson is going to be "coddled" here. My guess is that he is being told by Thompson that the Packers are taking a chance that no one else would. One more screw-up, and it's all over.

[rdanomly]

I hate this move. It's a disgrace. In my book, this is strike 2 against Thompson. Big deal. He might help to win a game on a kickoff return. We win 5 or 6 games--instead of 4 or 5. Mike McCarthy talks about Packer People and we bring in this guy. Brad Childress and the Vikings say they are going to clean house, and they cut guys like this and suspend Dwight Smith for a game for getting a citation. You don't win in the long run with guys like this. He may be a great guy, but he's failed a drug test, had two DUIs, and ran from police at over 100 MPHs. There's also been reports that he showed up for his DUI trial drunk and other things. He's an alcholic who needs to get his life in order--rather than be coddled yet again.



I too have my doubts about this move. However, I think it is fair to assume that Ted Thompson, who drafted Robinson, knows some things about him that we don't. I wouldn't assume that Robinson is going to be "coddled" here. My guess is that he is being told by Thompson that the Packers are taking a chance that no one else would. One more screw-up, and it's all over.

I don't know much about KRob's history at Seattle. Was he having issues similar to when he was in Minnesota or was he better behaved there?

[falco]

Its obvious what is happening here. TT cleaned the cupboard of veteran talent a little too fast, a lot of his additions haven't done shit (aka everyone in free agency this year), the team is so brutal that TT realizes his job is probably on the line quicker than it should be, and he makes a desperate move.

There's no other reasoning for it. This isn't the kind of move a rebuilding team makes.

[Patler]

This isn't the kind of move a rebuilding team makes.

Sure it is. A troubled, but talented player signed at the veterans minimum salary, with nothing guaranteed except this weeks salary. He's a $4 million/year player that the Packers will pay $32,000/week for every week that he keeps his nose clean ($545,000 vet's minimum).

This is a stopgap move with no long term impact on the roster or salary cap. He's a "rent-a-player", nothing more than that. He'll be around only as long as he is not a problem.

[vince]

Remember when drunks used to be so much FUN? Like Uncle Billy in "It's a wonderful life", stumbling over garbage can's yelling "I'm all right, I'm all right." on his way home to blissful oblivion.


Where it's really fun is when your friend gets clobbered by a drunk driving 90 mph through a red light, killing her husband and two children, and you get to be the one to tell her about when she wakes up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Why are you telling her and not her family (Parents and sisters)? Well, they were all killed by a drunk when she was in college. So yes, I'm all in favor of the Koren Robinson aquisition, who cares if the happy-go-lucky guy wants to party it up and drived stoned - just so long as he can catch a TD pass on Sunday. Yay Packers!


Someone who gets it.

Let me just say this, he's a great guy. Wouldn't it make sense to wait until he serves his prison time and get's this shit right? I'll try and get off the subject now.....I don't get TT that's all....
Rastak, because some people disagree with your perspective doesn't mean that they don't "get it." Attempting to diminish other posters' intelligence isn't a very effective tactic. I know it's tempting to believe your position is the only plausible opinion on this, but you're, quite simply, wrong about that.

The fact that the Packers signed a guy with a drinking problem has nothing whatever to do with whether or not the Packers are in favor of drinking and driving. They're not.

This is a company-employee relationship, not a parent-child relationship. It is not the Green Bay Packers' responsibility, or even within their ethical boundaries, to play BIG BROTHER here.

We live in a society (and I thank God we do) that zealously defends freedom, but with that freedom comes risk. People are free to make bad choices, and we, as a society, can't do anything until after the fact.

I have no doubt that the Packers will take all reasonable steps, not to keep him from drinking - they can't and shouldn't - but to give him the support structure he needs to KEEP HIMSELF from drinking. If they thought that he wasn't motivated to change, they wouldn't sign him. And if he does relapse, that'll be tragic, but it won't be because the Packers signed him.

In fact, a goal-oriented, structured environment where he can be productive, coached and supported, is the best possible environment for Koren. This environment will MINIMIZE his chances for relapse.

And it won't hurt the Packers team, when you compare it to today (without him returning kicks), if/when they lose his services for some amount of time.

And mraynrand, to make illogical allusions to romantic memories of past perceptions, then insinuate that this guy drives through neighborhoods, running red lights and picking off children is a gross mischaracterization of the situation, and a gross mischaracterization of the perceptions of those who don't agree with you. He doesn't do that, and has never done that. You can't (legitimately) make stuff up to support your perspective, and you can't demean those who disagree with you as simplistic rubes. You are the one who oversimplifies things when you do that.

Koren Robinson was driving fast on a divided highway just before 11PM during a time when there was low traffic. Those are the facts. He didn't run over anyone. What many people have used to make their argument against him DIDN'T HAPPEN. It can't be any simpler than that.

Also, comparing Koren Robinson to Terrell Owens in terms of "low moral character" is illogical and missing the point entirely. Terrell Owens' ego has proven to break up teams and turn them into individuals out for themselves - fatal for teams' success.

I've heard NOTHING WHATEVER to suggest that Koren Robinson is bad for team chemistry. But I'm open to hearing it if it's true.

That would definitely change my opinion of this situation, but I have yet to hear anything but that he is a GOOD teammate.

Those that are dead-set against this signing, as I see it, are either oversimplifying, have the facts wrong, are being illogical, or simply philosophically disagree about the role that an employer can and should play in a situation like this.

My opinion is that PACKER PEOPLE should support and assist someone with maturity and health problems - not throw them to the curb. The fact that he' skilled enough to earn a paycheck with the team is what puts him in position for the team to be able to do that. That's lucky for him.

[MadtownPacker]

Great post Vince.

At this point, if KR flies straight (enough) he can help the team and that is the bottom line. If he screws up and TT does nothing then its on the Packers.

[mission]

... and with vince's post comes the end of the thread.



















[you have reached the end of this thread. proceed no further. - mgmt.]





:razz:

[Rastak]

Remember when drunks used to be so much FUN? Like Uncle Billy in "It's a wonderful life", stumbling over garbage can's yelling "I'm all right, I'm all right." on his way home to blissful oblivion.


Where it's really fun is when your friend gets clobbered by a drunk driving 90 mph through a red light, killing her husband and two children, and you get to be the one to tell her about when she wakes up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Why are you telling her and not her family (Parents and sisters)? Well, they were all killed by a drunk when she was in college. So yes, I'm all in favor of the Koren Robinson aquisition, who cares if the happy-go-lucky guy wants to party it up and drived stoned - just so long as he can catch a TD pass on Sunday. Yay Packers!


Someone who gets it.

Let me just say this, he's a great guy. Wouldn't it make sense to wait until he serves his prison time and get's this shit right? I'll try and get off the subject now.....I don't get TT that's all....
Rastak, because some people disagree with your perspective doesn't mean that they don't "get it." Attempting to diminish other posters' intelligence isn't a very effective tactic. I know it's tempting to believe your position is the only plausible opinion on this, but you're, quite simply, wrong about that.

The fact that the Packers signed a guy with a drinking problem has nothing whatever to do with whether or not the Packers are in favor of drinking and driving. They're not.

This is a company-employee relationship, not a parent-child relationship. It is not the Green Bay Packers' responsibility, or even within their ethical boundaries, to play BIG BROTHER here.

We live in a society (and I thank God we do) that zealously defends freedom, but with that freedom comes risk. People are free to make bad choices, and we, as a society, can't do anything until after the fact.

I have no doubt that the Packers will take all reasonable steps, not to keep him from drinking - they can't and shouldn't - but to give him the support structure he needs to KEEP HIMSELF from drinking. If they thought that he wasn't motivated to change, they wouldn't sign him. And if he does relapse, that'll be tragic, but it won't be because the Packers signed him.

In fact, a goal-oriented, structured environment where he can be productive, coached and supported, is the best possible environment for Koren. This environment will MINIMIZE his chances for relapse.

And it won't hurt the Packers team, when you compare it to today (without him returning kicks), if/when they lose his services for some amount of time.

And mraynrand, to make illogical allusions to romantic memories of past perceptions, then insinuate that this guy drives through neighborhoods, running red lights and picking off children is a gross mischaracterization of the situation, and a gross mischaracterization of the perceptions of those who don't agree with you. He doesn't do that, and has never done that. You can't (legitimately) make stuff up to support your perspective, and you can't demean those who disagree with you as simplistic rubes. You are the one who oversimplifies things when you do that.

Koren Robinson was driving fast on a divided highway just before 11PM during a time when there was low traffic. Those are the facts. He didn't run over anyone. What many people have used to make their argument against him DIDN'T HAPPEN. It can't be any simpler than that.

Also, comparing Koren Robinson to Terrell Owens in terms of "low moral character" is illogical and missing the point entirely. Terrell Owens' ego has proven to break up teams and turn them into individuals out for themselves - fatal for teams' success.

I've heard NOTHING WHATEVER to suggest that Koren Robinson is bad for team chemistry. But I'm open to hearing it if it's true.

That would definitely change my opinion of this situation, but I have yet to hear anything but that he is a GOOD teammate.

Those that are dead-set against this signing, as I see it, are either oversimplifying, have the facts wrong, are being illogical, or simply philosophically disagree about the role that an employer can and should play in a situation like this.

My opinion is that PACKER PEOPLE should support and assist someone with maturity and health problems - not throw them to the curb. The fact that he' skilled enough to earn a paycheck with the team is what puts him in position for the team to be able to do that. That's lucky for him.


Wow, I'm speachless. It's 11 pm so it's okay or minimized? How about the police chasing the dude and their safety...look, whatever. What could be more structured than training camp? You think Seattle and Minnesota didn't do what they could for the guy? You are fooling yourself with wishful thinking. I will say this, if Harlen and the board don't care about the bad pub then why should you or I.......


Frankly, and I'll be honest here, if he does his time and gets his shit straight I hope he get's another chance and succeeds...the timing of this is laughable IMO.

[gureski]

I hate this move. It's a disgrace. In my book, this is strike 2 against Thompson. Big deal. He might help to win a game on a kickoff return. We win 5 or 6 games--instead of 4 or 5. Mike McCarthy talks about Packer People and we bring in this guy. Brad Childress and the Vikings say they are going to clean house, and they cut guys like this and suspend Dwight Smith for a game for getting a citation. You don't win in the long run with guys like this. He may be a great guy, but he's failed a drug test, had two DUIs, and ran from police at over 100 MPHs. There's also been reports that he showed up for his DUI trial drunk and other things. He's an alcholic who needs to get his life in order--rather than be coddled yet again.

I have two words for you..

Chris Carter

There's nothing wrong with Thompson giving Robinson a chance when you realize that Thompson is one of the guys who drafted Robinson and has been around him his whole career. There is a connection there that you cannot ignore. This isn't Steve Howe and the Yankees. This is Thompson trying to turn the life and career around of a guy who he has been around for years. It can work and if you want proof, look at Chris Carter. Troubled players who get into the right environment CAN turn their life and career around. Nothing wrong with Thompson giving this a shot. This isn't a stranger to Thompson. This is a guy he has been around and is connected to.

[swede]

K-Rob = bad character move.

What get's me is that in the offseason, TT wouldn't make a move for any other character risks with high talent - such as the most profound WR in the league (T.O.) :crazy: Or how about some O-Line, weren't there some vet's with talent but questionable personalities?

If I'm taking a risk on a high talent low character guy - why in the f'n hell does it have to be this guy? :crazy:

Exactly!

[the_idle_threat]

I have no doubt that the Packers will take all reasonable steps, not to keep him from drinking - they can't and shouldn't - but to give him the support structure he needs to KEEP HIMSELF from drinking. If they thought that he wasn't motivated to change, they wouldn't sign him. And if he does relapse, that'll be tragic, but it won't be because the Packers signed him.

It will be the Packers' fault if the tragedy occurs in Wisconsin. There's no reason to believe he would be here if he were not playing for the Pack.



In fact, a goal-oriented, structured environment where he can be productive, coached and supported, is the best possible environment for Koren. This environment will MINIMIZE his chances for relapse.


Perhaps this argument would hold more water if he didn't screw up despite several chances with the Seahawks, and then screw up again only a month ago while in training camp with the 'queens. He has clearly demonstrated that a structured team environment does not keep him on the straight and narrow.



Koren Robinson was driving fast on a divided highway just before 11PM during a time when there was low traffic. Those are the facts. He didn't run over anyone. What many people have used to make their argument against him DIDN'T HAPPEN. It can't be any simpler than that.


He was driving drunk and was driving over 100mph at night on a highway that had cross-traffic. This is reckless and criminal behavior. Nobody was hurt, but Koren cannot control whether there are other vehicles on the road when he goes on a bender. Lucky for him that there wasn't any cross-traffic this time.



Those that are dead-set against this signing, as I see it, are either oversimplifying, have the facts wrong, are being illogical, or simply philosophically disagree about the role that an employer can and should play in a situation like this.

My opinion is that PACKER PEOPLE should support and assist someone with maturity and health problems - not throw them to the curb. The fact that he' skilled enough to earn a paycheck with the team is what puts him in position for the team to be able to do that. That's lucky for him.

I don't like the signing, because it fails the cost-benefit analysis: the potential for enormous harm is large enough that it outweighs the likelihood that he probably will help the team win a game or three.

Koren has had a number of chances ... he has been fined, suspended, and fired by his team before ... and all this happened before the incident this summer. Eventually you have to realize that he's one of thse guys who might make nice for a while, but isn't going to change.

Packer people can't fix him. Maybe professional help can, but he won't have much time for that when he's busy practicing, traveling and playing for a pro football team. His free time will be late at night after practices and games ... the perfect time for him to get in more trouble.

But the decision has been made, so I'll hope he keeps it together until his inevitable one-year suspension.

[MadtownPacker]

Now Rastak, I recall you defending moss when he was pushing a traffic cop with his car and a fat sack of that cush.

Im sure i talked bad about KR and I will still take shots at him but the Pack looked terrible on Sunday so any help, even if it is a convist on weekend work furlough, will be accepted.

[Rastak]

I hate this move. It's a disgrace. In my book, this is strike 2 against Thompson. Big deal. He might help to win a game on a kickoff return. We win 5 or 6 games--instead of 4 or 5. Mike McCarthy talks about Packer People and we bring in this guy. Brad Childress and the Vikings say they are going to clean house, and they cut guys like this and suspend Dwight Smith for a game for getting a citation. You don't win in the long run with guys like this. He may be a great guy, but he's failed a drug test, had two DUIs, and ran from police at over 100 MPHs. There's also been reports that he showed up for his DUI trial drunk and other things. He's an alcholic who needs to get his life in order--rather than be coddled yet again.

I have two words for you..

Chris Carter

There's nothing wrong with Thompson giving Robinson a chance when you realize that Thompson is one of the guys who drafted Robinson and has been around him his whole career. There is a connection there that you cannot ignore. This isn't Steve Howe and the Yankees. This is Thompson trying to turn the life and career around of a guy who he has been around for years. It can work and if you want proof, look at Chris Carter. Troubled players who get into the right environment CAN turn their life and career around. Nothing wrong with Thompson giving this a shot. This isn't a stranger to Thompson. This is a guy he has been around and is connected to.


I guess I forgot about Cris's felonies....oh that's right, he didn't commit them.....it's a similar case but there are many differences. Key differences.
I'd list them but this subject is getting old.

[footballfever]

Being a recovering alcoholic myself of 4 years and being only 24 years old I understand the pressures in life that he is facing. Living in Wisconsin where every social event is planned around drinking its not an easy life, he's still a young man and has a lot of growing up to do and he faces a disease that's hard to understand and hard to contain. I give him a lot of credit for what he has accomplished thus far, there's always gonna be bumps in the road he just has to get up and dust himself off. I know I went from wanting to die every morning or afternoon when I woke up to living a very successful life now after walking the path of sobriety, so hopefully he can do the same. There are many success stories like mine amongst the sober circle and if he's willing he can do the same. It's okay that I broke my anonymity because I did it anonymously lol.

[Patler]

I'll be honest, I have a real hard time deciding how a chronic alcoholic, and specifically Koran Robinson in this situation, should be treated by his employer in comparison to, for example, the following:

illegal drug addict
prescription drug addict evolved from a legitimate medical use
obese chronic over-eater
anorexic/bulimic
someone with aids
someone with cancer
person with multiple non-alcohol related significant driving offenses

Is he really different than the chronically obese over-eater or the anorexic/bulimic?
Does he simply have a disease like the person with aids or cancer?
Should he be treated the same for his driving violations as he would if his BA level was 0.00?
Or should he be treated simply like the illegal drug addict?

I don't know. My opinion changes as I think of different factors.

I personally know a man, dead now from alcoholism via liver disease, who was a very talented and successful business man, never missed or was late for work, gave enormous amounts of time to charities, fund raisers, every community activity you could think of, but drank himself to sleep every single night, without fail. He was a wonderful, kind and valuable person who could not control his drinking problem. Thankfully, he drank mostly at home, and after a few close calls mostly gave up driving whenever he had his first drink of the day. This was not an evil man. No matter how hard he tried, he simply could not control one aspect of his life. Ultimately, he resigned himself to it, and managed it the best way that he could, by drinking at home.

I have no idea where Koran Robinson falls an the good vs. evil scale as a person. I surely don't know how alcoholism should be treated compared to other diseases or addictions. Heck, I don't even know if I agree with the Packers signing him or not. The only thing I do know is that he does have to be held accountable for whatever actions he is ultimately convicted of.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have two words for you..

Chris Carter

I think Cris Carter is a weak comparison. Cris didn't have near the history that this guy has. I'm all for giving guys second and third chances, but this guy has had his first, second, and third chances: 1) Failed drug test, 2) first DUI, 3) second DUI with police chase.

The big thing for me is the timing. If they did this once he gets back from his next suspension, then fine. They believe in him. Right now, he has a yearlong suspension looming over him. When that will be, I don't know. It could be in 6 weeks. It could be at the end of the year.

I don't think he's the magic cure for what ails us. We had four poor drafts from 2001-2004, so we have few guys that are in their 3rd-5th years--which are what championship teams are built on. We are young (29 first and second year players), so competing this year is very unlikely--with or without KoRo. For this team, the move doesn't make sense to me.

Well, now that he is signed, I'm going to hope for the best. I'm not going to overly concern myself with this anymore. I said my peace.

[MJZiggy]

I joked about this earlier in the thread, but the earlier questions as to whether this would be good for KRob got me thinking (always iffy). I think that his chances for recovery in an NFL that is buried neck-deep in money (our money :neutral: ) can offer him all of the rehab and support he needs to a level he will not find anywhere else. We joke about him coming to Wisconsin, but the fact is that he's coming to a team that really needs him right now, and although they lose nothing financially if he fails, his teammates will be motivated to do their best to help him work through this situation. Not only that, but one of his teammates has been through it. KRob's got someone to talk to if needed without going to his bosses. Also, I daresay Minneapolis is a bigger place than Green Bay. It's easier to get lost there. Not only are his teammates going to be motivated to help him, but the whole community here bleeds for this team and will know him by sight. Maybe a reminder of what he's got to lose as he walks into the bar will help. I'd be willing to bet that there will be people that will do everything in their power to keep him out of his car if he has been drinking. I see bartenders calling cabs and threatening to call cops if he gets in his car. That might not happen in any other football town in the NFL, but I truly could see it happening in GB. And if you're looking for the reason TT signed him instead of signing someone else weeks ago, he just wasn't quite desperate enough yet and you have to admit, if he stays clean, this is one hell of a bargain. I know, it's a big if, but that's the risk he's taking.

[mngolf19]

I hate this move. It's a disgrace. In my book, this is strike 2 against Thompson. Big deal. He might help to win a game on a kickoff return. We win 5 or 6 games--instead of 4 or 5. Mike McCarthy talks about Packer People and we bring in this guy. Brad Childress and the Vikings say they are going to clean house, and they cut guys like this and suspend Dwight Smith for a game for getting a citation. You don't win in the long run with guys like this. He may be a great guy, but he's failed a drug test, had two DUIs, and ran from police at over 100 MPHs. There's also been reports that he showed up for his DUI trial drunk and other things. He's an alcholic who needs to get his life in order--rather than be coddled yet again.

I agree with you Harv, 100%. I loved the guy as a player and person in general. But he has had his second chance and blown it. I don't want to hear any Packer fans ever talk about being the "great" organization anymore and the Vikings being the "classless" ones.

[Patler]

I agree with you Harv, 100%. I loved the guy as a player and person in general. But he has had his second chance and blown it. I don't want to hear any Packer fans ever talk about being the "great" organization anymore and the Vikings being the "classless" ones.

Should all alcoholics be fired from their jobs?
Or just alcoholics who drive 100 mph?
How about the nonalcoholic who drives 100 mph?

These questions trouble me, and I really would like to hear others comments.

[vince]

It will be the Packers' fault if the tragedy occurs in Wisconsin. There's no reason to believe he would be here if he were not playing for the Pack.
Philosophical disagreement. It will not be the Packers fault if he kills ANYONE, ANYWHERE. It will be Koren Robinson's fault. Some basic tenets of our society are personal freedom and individual responsibility. The Packers can't and shouldn't take that away from anyone. Society can, and that will run its course - outside of the Packers control.

And what makes Wisconsonians genetically or morally superior to people in other states?



Perhaps this argument would hold more water if he didn't screw up despite several chances with the Seahawks, and then screw up again only a month ago while in training camp with the 'queens. He has clearly demonstrated that a structured team environment does not keep him on the straight and narrow.

Illogical argument. Because he has screwed up in the past in a structured environment does not mean that an unstructured environment is better for him. A person with low discipline needs more DISCIPLINE. That's logical. A structured environment gives him the best chance for success. Will he fail again? Maybe, but he might succeed too. His best chance for success is within a structured environment.


He was driving drunk and was driving over 100mph at night on a highway that had cross-traffic. This is reckless and criminal behavior. Nobody was hurt, but Koren cannot control whether there are other vehicles on the road when he goes on a bender. Lucky for him that there wasn't any cross-traffic this time.

Exactly right. Lucky for him THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN! His wreckless behavior will be dealt with legally.


I don't like the signing, because it fails the cost-benefit analysis: the potential for enormous harm is large enough that it outweighs the likelihood that he probably will help the team win a game or three.

Cost/Benefit Analysis: I see this as a huge WIN. I don't agree that ENORMOUS HARM will be done. How?


Koren has had a number of chances ... he has been fined, suspended, and fired by his team before ... and all this happened before the incident this summer. Eventually you have to realize that he's one of thse guys who might make nice for a while, but isn't going to change.
The first part of your argument is correct. He's had chances before, and he's screwed them up. The second part, I disagree with. Time will tell, but he is 26 years old, and his problem is one that millions of people conquer. He has a good environment in which to succeed.


Packer people can't fix him. Maybe professional help can, but he won't have much time for that when he's busy practicing, traveling and playing for a pro football team. His free time will be late at night after practices and games ... the perfect time for him to get in more trouble.
This is EXACTLY where Packer People CAN help him. I'll go out on a limb and say his influential Packer teammates (I'm guessing that Driver, Jennings will be his buddies...) won't be renting boats for latenight parties...(cheap shot, I know, but the point is valid). These guys are family men and Koren will do well for himself to hang with these guys.


But the decision has been made, so I'll hope he keeps it together until his inevitable one-year suspension.
You and me both.

[the_idle_threat]

Once again, I agree with ol' Cliffy ...



Shame, shame on Thompson and the Packers

Posted: Sept. 11, 2006
by Cliff Christl

http://www.jsonline.com/graphics/sports/art/mugs/1cliffchristl.jpg


Green Bay - What happens if Koren Robinson kills somebody in Wisconsin driving drunk or fleeing the police?

Green Bay Packers general manager Ted Thompson wore a smile late Monday afternoon as he prepared to meet the media in the Lambeau Field atrium to announce the signing of wide receiver and kick returner Koren Robinson. When that was the first question fired at Thompson following his brief introductory remarks, he turned ashen and somber as he tried to collect himself and provide an answer.

"Oh, I can't answer anything like that," Thompson said after a two-second pause. "There's issues in his past that obviously he's made some mistakes, but most of those issues are covered under the confidentiality of the NFL and the NFLPA. There's programs set up and that sort of thing, and that's where that lies."

Maybe if Thompson had given that potential tragedy some thought prior to that moment, he might have come to his senses and not been standing there. Because he hadn't, he should have answered, "The blood, or at least some splattering of it, will be on my hands."

Chilling?

You bet it's a chilling thought. When the local professional football team signs a player less than a month after he has been arrested for allegedly driving drunk at more than 100 miles an hour and refusing to stop for police, that is what should be foremost on the minds of the people of Wisconsin, most of whom are good, loyal fans of the Packers. We shouldn't be thinking about whether this troubled player can help this troubled team win an extra game or two.

This was a move that deserves no mercy when it comes to criticism and only a chilling look at what could be the most chilling consequences of it.

Maybe there's little risk if Robinson merely suffers a relapse with his alcohol addiction. But if that relapse leads to death, something that Thompson apparently viewed as the unthinkable, the damage done to the Packers will be tsunami-like.

Is Thompson really that stupid to risk the reputation, the kindred spirit and the good will that one of the most storied franchises in sports has built with its community and its fans over 80-some years?

Could Thompson not figure out beforehand that if Robinson goes astray in any way that gives the Packers a black eye he might erase almost all of the positive feelings that were created under his mentor, Ron Wolf, following the bleak 1980s, when the Packers were habitual losers both on and off the field?

Why didn't chief executive officer Bob Harlan, chief operating officer John Jones and the executive committee overrule Thompson in the case?

Is Harlan willing to risk his legacy during his final year in office on Koren Robinson not tarnishing the image of the franchise? Have the members of the committee completely lost their spine?

This is a player who has at least two strikes against him in the NFL's substance-abuse program. This is a player who has had repeated problems with alcohol over his six years in the league, perhaps leaving him on pace to become football's version of Steve Howe.

Yes, it's best if the executive committee doesn't interfere with football decisions. And, yes, it always has been pretty much a rubber stamp for whatever the general manager and coach want.

But this was more than just a football decision.

Again, and it can't be emphasized enough, this was a decision to sign a player who within the last month endangered lives in one of the most reckless ways possible.

A player who was released by the rival Minnesota Vikings because they no longer wanted to deal with the problems he created.

How many mothers and fathers, or any of you for that matter, want this player living in your neighborhood or driving your streets at night?

True enough, the National Football League isn't the Boy Scouts. It's automatically assumed that if a city has a franchise, it's going to be harboring players with arrest records, convictions, you name it.

If the Packers, or any other teams for that matter, limited itself to signing only good citizens, they couldn't compete in what some, in an attempt at dark humor, have called the National Felony League.

Nor would most people be naïve enough in these parts to believe that since the days of Johnny Blood there haven't been Packers going out at night, imbibing too much and driving. Probably most of us who live in this state, at least those of us 21 and older, have driven at some time or another after having too much to drink.

Had the Packers signed Randy Moss or Terrell Owens or any other malcontent or controversial figure, it would have drawn no quarrel here. The 1996 Super Bowl champs included players with troubled pasts. Andre Rison, Tyrone Williams, even Brett Favre come to mind.

But Robinson, at least for now, so soon after his most recent incident, can't offer anything but hollow promises that he'll get his life together and not repeat his senseless behavior that had him racing back to the Vikings' training camp in Mankato with an alleged 0.11 blood-alcohol content.

That's why Thompson and the Packers will be culpable for any calamities or tragedies that Robinson might bring to pass here. Under almost any other circumstances, it would be unfair to blame Thompson or the Packers for trouble caused by their players.

They're employers, not babysitters.

But they wouldn't deserve impunity in this case. They certainly couldn't plead ignorance.

The potential downside here so outweighs the potential gains that somebody, somewhere in the organization with any kind of authority should have had the good sense to speak up and short-circuit the move.

Then again, maybe that's why this team appears to be in a free fall and is even willing to once again risk becoming the squalor it was back in the days when no player symbolized it any better than Mossy Cade.

[cpk1994]

Anyone know what the blood alcohal legal limit is in MN?

The stuff I've seen says that every state in the union is at .08 now. Minnesota was one of the last to go to the .08 limit, but that's what it is now, according to my sources.
Yes. The federal government blackmailed all the states into changing to .08 by witholding highway funds from any state who refused. And also remember that Ray Lewis was thought to be fucked as well but as we can all see he is still playing. Koren's suspension is not an automatic guarnatee. I like the signing only because they can cut him with no penalty if he is suspended or screws up once. And he can't be any worse than Fergie, can he?

[Fosco33]

I agree with you Harv, 100%. I loved the guy as a player and person in general. But he has had his second chance and blown it. I don't want to hear any Packer fans ever talk about being the "great" organization anymore and the Vikings being the "classless" ones.

Should all alcoholics be fired from their jobs?
Or just alcoholics who drive 100 mph?
How about the nonalcoholic who drives 100 mph?

These questions trouble me, and I really would like to hear others comments.

On top of that - how bout people who speed while on their cell phones? That's just as bad as light D&D, IMO.

If you have a contract that stipulates that you won't drink and you do, you could be fired - I know a lot of my brother's co-workers (electricians) who've been canned for coming into work still drunk (after a bender).

Brett and Chewy used to be the biggest drunks in town and probably got away with a few things in their days. Then Brett got hooked on the pills and played high - granted he's cleaned up since but there were at least two 'character' strikes against our most beloved player in 3 decades of Packer football.

Is this thread getting to the :beat: yet?

[vince]

Being a recovering alcoholic myself of 4 years and being only 24 years old I understand the pressures in life that he is facing. Living in Wisconsin where every social event is planned around drinking its not an easy life, he's still a young man and has a lot of growing up to do and he faces a disease that's hard to understand and hard to contain. I give him a lot of credit for what he has accomplished thus far, there's always gonna be bumps in the road he just has to get up and dust himself off. I know I went from wanting to die every morning or afternoon when I woke up to living a very successful life now after walking the path of sobriety, so hopefully he can do the same. There are many success stories like mine amongst the sober circle and if he's willing he can do the same. It's okay that I broke my anonymity because I did it anonymously lol.
Thanks for sharing that footballfever.

[Rastak]

" ones.

Should all alcoholics be fired from their jobs?
Or just alcoholics who drive 100 mph?
How about the nonalcoholic who drives 100 mph?

These questions trouble me, and I really would like to hear others comments.

Fired? No...put in prison, yes....Robinson was fired and you know what's on deck....

[Guiness]

Wow - lots of opinions here, valid ooints on both sides.

As far as the 'character risk' think, I think all teams have to manage that. Football is a vicously violent sport, and the personalities types that it takes to play it well are going to lean towards extreme ones.

I think a team has to look at their recent history, and strength of character on the team, and current PR standing to decide if they can affoard another incident. And sometimes they gamble on risks too much, and cross the line - witness the Bengals current situation - that's a powder keg, and despite a talented team, it could really blow up on them.

IMO If the Vikins hadn't had a bad run lately (ya, ya, the boat party, some other small stuff) they would've held onto KRob - he is a probowl player, after all. But they looked at the situation, and decided their PR position wasn't a good one. I think Viking fans are kidding themselves if they think it was done for purely honorable intentions.

The Pack looked at their situation, which has been pretty good. Cory Rodger and Carrol's minor arrests, and decided the potential fallout from another hit was acceptable.

[Oscar]

I've just read the posts here but maby I'll take my shot. I don't have a problem picking this guy up. Hell, I've had many second and even third chances in life. I have alot of first hand experience on the effects that alcohol can have on ones life. I have drove my car well over 100 mph drunk with three of my best friends with me. I thank God everyday that I kept it between the white lines and we didn't get caught. Not one of my proud moments in life... If this guy can get into a program.. Hit a few AA meetings a week and prove to himself that he wants to be sober things may work out. It's a one day at a time kinda deal. Hope Koren gets it right this time. And the not wanting us Packer fans to talk about our great organization....on a Packer forum... :crazy:

[Patler]

Fired? No...put in prison, yes....Robinson was fired and you know what's on deck....

Yes I do. A prolonged legal battle that may not have a decision until next off season, and at that has an uncertain result (again, not that I agree with that, just the reality of it).

[jack's smirking revenge]

And here's to you, Mr. Robinson
Teddy loves you more than you do know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mr. Robinson
The Hall holds a place for those who play
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files
We'd like to help you learn to help yourself
Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes
Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home

And here's to you, Mr. Robinson
Teddy loves you more than you do know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mr. Robinson
The Hall holds a place for those who play
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

Hide it in a hiding place where no one ever goes
Put it in your pantry with your creatine
It's a little secret, just the Robinsons' affair
Most of all, you've got to hide it from the fans

Coo, coo, ca-choo, Mr. Robinson
Teddy loves you more than you do know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mr. Robinson
The Hall holds a place for those who play
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
Watching NFL on the dish
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
Ev'ry way you look at it, you lose

Where have you gone, Vince Lombardi
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you (Woo, woo, woo)
What's that you say, Mr. Robinson
Saint Vince has left and gone away
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

[red]

I agree with you Harv, 100%. I loved the guy as a player and person in general. But he has had his second chance and blown it. I don't want to hear any Packer fans ever talk about being the "great" organization anymore and the Vikings being the "classless" ones.

Should all alcoholics be fired from their jobs?
Or just alcoholics who drive 100 mph?
How about the nonalcoholic who drives 100 mph?

These questions trouble me, and I really would like to hear others comments.

100% agree with you here patler.

i almost made the exact same post earlier

[Pack0514]

I did not read this whole thread so if it was discussed, I apologize...... but who did the Packers release to make room for Robinson?

[red]

I did not read this whole thread so if it was discussed, I apologize...... but who did the Packers release to make room for Robinson?
i don't think we ever got that far.

right off the bat this turned into a discusion about how nfl players that drink and drive should be given the chair and never be allowed to work again. even though the rest of the world is allowed to go on living when they do it, with little more then a slap on the wrist

[Harlan Huckleby]

And here's to you, Mr. Robinson
Teddy loves you more than you do know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mr. Robinson
The Hall holds a place for those who play
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files
We'd like to help you learn to help yourself
Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes
Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home

Not too shabby, not too shabby at all.
But I might have stood firm with the original "Heaven holds a place for those who pray" line, since he'll undoubtably be steered into the 12-step routine.

[red]

if the nfl wants to make alcohol out to be this big banned substance that they are willing to suspend a player for a whole year if he chooses to do. then IMO they need to test every player everyday, and they need to stop letting beer companies advertise during games and at stadiums. and you know what, they need to stop selling at games, because i can promise you there are thousands of very drunk people driving around on the streets of green bay and every other nfl city after a game.

but then nfl wouldn't do that, even if it would keep people safe and safe lives, because they would lose 100's of millions of dollars

[Terry]

Well, all that's needed next for good ole boy Cliff Christl is to call for a lynching. What an irrational and hysterical pile of pablum. People like him remind me that there's a good reason Joe McCarthy came from Wisconsin.



Rastak, because some people disagree with your perspective doesn't mean that they don't "get it." Attempting to diminish other posters' intelligence isn't a very effective tactic. I know it's tempting to believe your position is the only plausible opinion on this, but you're, quite simply, wrong about that.

Well, if you think about it, Rastak has an emotional investment in his point of view. This is pretty normal, I think, and something that is common to most all of us. If I may use a more b&w extreme example to illustrate the point, if a judge condemns a man to execution, you can be sure that he'll naturally be a lot less receptive to considerations of the merit of such a sentence afterward than he might have been beforehand.



In fact, a goal-oriented, structured environment where he can be productive, coached and supported, is the best possible environment for Koren. This environment will MINIMIZE his chances for relapse.

I have to comment on this. All in all, Vince, I thought you wrote a superb post and, all in all, I am ok with the signing. In fact, I hoped the Packers would do this.

Having said that, in the above quote, I think you are making the same mistake at the opposite end of the spectrum that idle makes further down the page. I'm not a psychologist or a social worker and even if I were, I would want the consensus opinion of a dozen of the most brilliant in their fields - and even then, if there was but one dissenting opinion, I would pay especially close attention to it. The actual fact is that you and idle and I don't know if being signed will be good for Koren or bad for Koren. The way you put it, it sounds like it will be good and indeed, perhaps it will be. It could also be argued, maybe, that the buzz, the hype, the fan adulation, the noise of controversies, the fickleness of fans, etc, etc, etc could be just about the worst thing for Koren Robinson right now.

I think the answer to that question is a very important one. In the end, it's probably still someone's best guess.

[Patler]

I did not read this whole thread so if it was discussed, I apologize...... but who did the Packers release to make room for Robinson?

No one yet. I started a thread about it. Robinson has not yet been signed, they only "agreed to terms." The Packers always word press releases very carefully.

I speculated that they are trying to trade a defensive tackle, probably Cory Williams, for a draft pick to open a roster spot to sign Robinson.

[jack's smirking revenge]

And here's to you, Mr. Robinson
Teddy loves you more than you do know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mr. Robinson
The Hall holds a place for those who play
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files
We'd like to help you learn to help yourself
Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes
Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home

Not too shabby, not too shabby at all.
But I might have stood firm with the original "Heaven holds a place for those who pray" line, since he'll undoubtably be steered into the 12-step routine.

I wanted to throw the whole lyrics up there without many edits (of course I'd have to change the Mrs. to Mr.), but thought I'd be cute. And, the changes I made, I just did in a two-minute drill before posting. So, in hindsight, I'd probably keep the "Heaven" line, per your suggestion.

My main point was to lighten the discussion. I'm personally on the fence. I can see pros and cons to his signing. Seems like this is a pretty heated argument and all of the important points have been made on either side.

tyler

[Zool]

Coo coo ca choo Jack Yankovic. Nice one. I also am on the fence. The man makes some mighty horrible decisions off the field, but anything to help my Packers right now is welcome. I suppose thats selfish.

[Terry]

It will be the Packers' fault if the tragedy occurs in Wisconsin. There's no reason to believe he would be here if he were not playing for the Pack.

Well, Vince already addressed this, so I can drop two thirds of the thoughts that came to mind when I read it. I'll just say this: By that logic, if we didn't sign him, it could equally be argued that it would be the Packers' fault if a tragedy happened outside of Wisconsin.

The point is that it presupposes that signing him will in some way be a factor in the development of a tragedy. Maybe so, of course. But the inverse is also true.



Perhaps this argument would hold more water if he didn't screw up despite several chances with the Seahawks, and then screw up again only a month ago while in training camp with the 'queens. He has clearly demonstrated that a structured team environment does not keep him on the straight and narrow.

That doesn't follow - that is, that something not working twice before means it won't work a third time. If it did follow, we wouldn't have all those cute aphorisms in our culture about persistance. Furthermore, no two situations are the same.

Having said that, I would agree that a structured environment is not sufficient for people getting their lives together. Maybe for many, but some - and certainly for the most troubled - are just as likely to react adversely in such contexts. If that weren't so, the best sure cure for all of us would be the military.

However, structure and discipline are certainly normally elements of any sort of rehab program. If you study the routines and techniques of places like the Betty Ford clinic on down to the local rehab centre at the edge of town, discipline and structure are very much part of the program in all cases. There are good reasons for this, which we needn't expand upon here. But obviously there are also other things involved in any rehab process. As I said to vince, it's entirely possible that the environment of a football team surrounded by huge fans could be quite counter-productive to Koren's development. I think that's the important question. But I don't think it is one that we can answer. All such answers in this context are pure speculation.

[Terry]

Postscript: something I forgot to mention.



Nobody was hurt, but Koren cannot control whether there are other vehicles on the road when he goes on a bender.

I think this subject is one that merits some care in the choice of language. I've seen that word - bender - on a number of occasions in these discussions on different forums.

Does anyone know just exactly how much alcohol it takes to produce a blood alcohol level of 0.11?

I don't know. I've heard anywhere from "a couple of beers" to about 4 or 4.5 drinks. Neither of which constitutes a bender. It depends on many things, including constitution and built up resistance. Some alcoholics need a few drinks in the morning to even be able to behave soberly. Many drinkers and alcoholics can down 4 drinks without any noticeable effect - others will be on their asses. My guess would be that in the case of a large, strong, healthy, athletic alcoholic, 4 drinks would be a long way from a 'bender'.

[the_idle_threat]

Vince and Terry,

There are types of structured environments other than a football team in the NFL. What I'm saying is, the football kind of structure obviously hasn't worked for Koren ... maybe it's time to try something else. Do you remember the definition of insanity? :wink:

Add the factor that WI enjoys recreational drinking as a point of civic pride, and it really seems we're trying to rehabilitate a wolf in a henhouse. I really don't think this logic is too tough to handle...

RE: the Packers being at fault, you have so completely missed the point that it would take an enormous amount of time to explain ... time I do not have. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

For that matter, we will have to agree to disagree on the whole thing, really. What's done is done. I'm not happy about it, and I hope Koren gets lucky again when he melts down in the future.

[mraynrand]

right off the bat this turned into a discusion about how nfl players that drink and drive should be given the chair and never be allowed to work again. even though the rest of the world is allowed to go on living when they do it, with little more then a slap on the wrist

I think it's more important to stop enabling drunks and drunk drivers by repeated slaps on the wrist until they kill someone - and often, even after they kill someone. The fact that K-Rob is an NFL player just makes the problem more visible. But it is a major problem. An incredibly high percentage of traffic fatalities and life-changing injuries result from alcohol-related accidents.

This comment was sponsored by KoorsLite - please drink responsibly. Right.

[Patler]

[quote=red]
.

This comment was sponsored by KoorsLite - please drink responsibly. Right.

I've always thought they should say what they really mean, "...please drink responsibly, BUT MAKE SURE YOU DRINK!" Just a little honesty in advertizing.

[NewsBruin]

Red, do you think that's been the mindset of those on this board, or would you like me to draw a similarly exaggerated opposing viewpoint.

There are folks here who just don't think this is the best thing for Koren Robinson right now, and who have questioned what effect it will have on the lockerroom.

[woodbuck27]

It will be the Packers' fault if the tragedy occurs in Wisconsin. There's no reason to believe he would be here if he were not playing for the Pack.

Well, Vince already addressed this, so I can drop two thirds of the thoughts that came to mind when I read it. I'll just say this: By that logic, if we didn't sign him, it could equally be argued that it would be the Packers' fault if a tragedy happened outside of Wisconsin.

The point is that it presupposes that signing him will in some way be a factor in the development of a tragedy. Maybe so, of course. But the inverse is also true.



Perhaps this argument would hold more water if he didn't screw up despite several chances with the Seahawks, and then screw up again only a month ago while in training camp with the 'queens. He has clearly demonstrated that a structured team environment does not keep him on the straight and narrow.

That doesn't follow - that is, that something not working twice before means it won't work a third time. If it did follow, we wouldn't have all those cute aphorisms in our culture about persistance. Furthermore, no two situations are the same.

Having said that, I would agree that a structured environment is not sufficient for people getting their lives together. Maybe for many, but some - and certainly for the most troubled - are just as likely to react adversely in such contexts. If that weren't so, the best sure cure for all of us would be the military.

However, structure and discipline are certainly normally elements of any sort of rehab program. If you study the routines and techniques of places like the Betty Ford clinic on down to the local rehab centre at the edge of town, discipline and structure are very much part of the program in all cases. There are good reasons for this, which we needn't expand upon here. But obviously there are also other things involved in any rehab process. As I said to vince, it's entirely possible that the environment of a football team surrounded by huge fans could be quite counter-productive to Koren's development. I think that's the important question. But I don't think it is one that we can answer. All such answers in this context are pure speculation.

There appears to be two distinct sides to this possible addition of Koren Robinson to OUR 53 Man roster. Well three.

1.) The YES. . ASAP as OUR Team is in dire straits.The SELFISH response.

The " Quick Fix is in" approach.

2. The NO . . NO DAM WAY !! . . as he's an ALCOHOLIC and will screw-up inevitably and embarass Packer fans and the PACKER ORGANIZATION.

I'll start and end with the third one:

a) The third one is on the basis of a purely ethical / logical response by Packer GM Ted Thompson.(to or not to) bring Koren Robinson in?

Here - is where we get a fix on OUR GM Ted Thompson the REAL Man.

The test is before "this mystery man" to me as I stand. What will TT do as a response to Koren Robinson will reveal his strong and consequent STRONK or WEAK suits as a MAN.

This really interests me. :mrgreen:

My take on this possible addition to OUR Packers. Not GM Ted Thompson's Packers. OURS !!

If " the Vikings " and " the Seahawks " passed on Koren Robinson and considering the question of:

Didn't the Seahawks and OUR GM Ted Thompson (while there) see and suffer the issue's of KR and respond as they felt necessary after TT came to Green Bay in Jan. 2005? That decision by the Seahawks Organization can't be second guessed based on all we realize about Koren TODAY.

The Seahawks were correct in releasing Koren Robinson despite his draft status, talent...

and potential +ve to them/and any team...

as a versatile and acknowledged personable football player with added versatility @ WR/KR/PR.

WHY ?

It has to be weighed (strongly as an OVERRIDING (ALL ELSE) NEGATIVE) ...
" the fact of Koren Robinson's illness/disease...called ALCOHOLIM ".

TODAY... and for whatever TIME it takes... for proper treatment tomorrows... ALCOHOLISM in Koren Robinson still WINS !!

THE PACKERS response or ted thompson's response mut be isolated to assisting Koren Robinson in dealing with ALCOHOLISM as a first and ONLY priorityand absolutely must not for the immediate future entertain any serious measure to allow Koren Robinson to play football for us wit this aside.

If Ted Thompson goes there he must via Contract prepare a TOTAL and reasonable timeline support FOR Koren Robinson. he can't use and abuse him with any neglect as an ethical response to Koren Robinson. i

It's one of those time to pay the Piper situations.packer fans and Rastak. Without treatmeent it's not a matter of will he screw up and do something else destructive but when will that take place.

Not a label but a fact. Koren Robinson is an ALCOHOLIC ! He will always be. . an ALCOHOLIC. Koren Robinson is sick with a disease /illness termed ALCHOLISM.It's symptoms mired in destructive behaviors and consequent damage/destruction of various degrees and consequences.

ALCOHOLISM iin my studies is related often to "an addictive personality" and often genetically predisposed. ALCOHOLISM cannot just up and disappear with treatment. It will remain with the ALCOHOLIC and be destructive /self-destructive without the ALCOHOLIC admitting he/she is powerless when using alcohol

Koren Robinson therefore must enter treatment to dry out and incorporate the BEST ALCOHOLISM and Long Term CARE on a 100% consistent basis from the time he recovers in the best theraputic environment we as the green bay packers can avail to him ASAP.

He can't play football for "the Packers" untill he is cured of Alcoholism and set on the CORRECT path.Otherwise the ALCOHOLISM will go ALL OFF on him and "the Green Bay Packers".

If ted Thompson even seriously considered putting Koren robinson on the field after maybe a day or so of thought in that dieection ?

That wouls be STUPID on ted's part.That would demonstrate to me that Ted Thompsonis weak as a person.That would demonstrate to me clearly that ted thompson can't be trusted as an ethical /moral person.

That would clearly define to me that Ted Thompson isn't. . ' to use his term" Packer People. How could I trust ted thompson as the GMof my team?

I couldn't.

Turning to my immediate concern as a human being;

NFL former Football player Koren Robinson

The PROGRAM for any Alcoholic and therefore Koren Robinson is this:

1. KR must ( NO LONGER !) deny that he has any control of alcohol use in his personal life. He is afflicted with "the DISEASE / IllNESS called ALCOHOLISM and Koren must realize that admitting that. . . is far from anything shameful. The 1st Step of the 12 - Step Program for any Addiction or desructive Lifestyle via acting addictively.

2. KR must have a REAL and determined desire to clean up (DRY OUT !!) and absolutely STOP his symptoms like destructive and self-destructive behaviors that are more or less guranteed through any alcohol use.

3. Koren Robinson needs support not judgement.

Koren Robinson has to go public with his ALCOHOLISM.

Koren's in the limelight and not low profile. He's an NFL player now under a microscope.

Any attempt to hide embarassment by him is folly (counter-productive) and conditions more criticism's and judgement and the shame/guilt>>>addictive Cycle will win.

Koren Robinson will not be able to have ant REAL chance of overcoming the destruction of alcoholism, without proper support fron non judgementle and non ignorant people.

Koren doesn't need a judging reaction from people once he arrives at 1.) and 2.) above.

Koren needs proper and consistent +ve and realistic support. That means a proper TREATMENT Fascility ASAP and cannot be added to the Packers as an immediate need fulfillled alternative.He's very sick.he needs help not more pressure under the limelight of playing for "the Packers".

Koren won't be useful to us on an ethical basis until he answers to himself and the Legal System " the Courts ". ALL that will stress him in addition to the stress inherant in trying to help a really bad football team get back on some more even keel.

3. In treatment and after proper recovery in a confined setting (Treatment Fascility) Maybe, Koren will learn and understand the negative impact " of the addictive personality " as a possible contributing factor in his damaged LIFE? I make reference in possibly channeling the disease of Alcoholism to other destructive addictive pursuits in his (Koren's) future.

After a Pro Bowl Season (2005) and " the Vikings " trying to clean up their house. KR's last brush with fate and not dealing with his problem, again demanded that KR be turned out.

The NFL is in the business of winning at football and not rehabilitation generally.

As a NFL fan i hate it that Koren robinson has been left out there on his own (with an agent of course ) but stuck in his ALCOHOLISM.

TWO rejections by Solid NFL Organizations predispose Koren robinson's future as an NFL player.That fact trumps all else.

Will the green PBay packers step up and assist Koren robinson and is it possible that ted thompson is genuinely a decent man who drafted Koren robinson and feels compassion for Koren/

Will Ted use his position to reach out as necessary to his BOSS"s to offer help. .REAL TREATMENT HELP for KOREN ROBINSON.

To ask WR/KR/PR Koren Robinson. . . to be an active Packer ...to go on the field within the next 3-4 months (this season) is TOTALLY and BLATANLY WRONG.
If Ted Thompson on behalf of "the GREEN BAY PACKERS' offers the REAL HELP Koren Robinson needs . .THAT will be impressive.

After treatment there is no gurantee. Maybe ( just maybe ) Koren Robinson may be a productive Packer for OUR future?

[It's just that or let go of Koren Robinson.

DO WHAT's RIGHT and ONLY weighed for the HONOR of the GREEN BAY PACKERS ORGANIZATION. . GM Ted Thompson.

Ted. ONLY ONE OPTION with Koren Robinson.

There's ONLY the " the possibility of what goes around comes around" in a decision to assist Koren Robinson in a FULL Re-Habilitation PROGRAM.

[Football's OUT for Koren Robinson till he gets HELP.

[RashanGary]

I say we should just use him as long as he's not suspended, only pay him for the weeks we use like TT did with the contract and then cut him when we no longer have use for him if it gets to that.

Forget about fixing this guy. If he wants help, he can get it himself. We have no risk here. Use him for what he's worth *alot on ST's and maybe in teh offense* and allow him to be choose his own path.

I'm a firm believer in people need to help themselves. Robinson has that chacne. It's nto up to the GB Packers to force him into anything. That is his choice. If he hit's bottom he'll do it. IF not, he'll keep going. Nobody can force it.

I want him returning punts and kicks this week and starting to play offense the followign week. He's an asset right now. When he gets suspended, cut him if it's for a full year.

[Guiness]

if the nfl wants to make alcohol out to be this big banned substance that they are willing to suspend a player for a whole year if he chooses to do. then IMO they need to test every player everyday, and they need to stop letting beer companies advertise during games and at stadiums. and you know what, they need to stop selling at games, because i can promise you there are thousands of very drunk people driving around on the streets of green bay and every other nfl city after a game.

but then nfl wouldn't do that, even if it would keep people safe and safe lives, because they would lose 100's of millions of dollars

Red - the NFL does not want to make alcohol a 'big banned substance'. Actually, as far as I can tell, they could care less if the average player gets falling down drunk every day. It's a legal substance, and that's that. The NFL does not punish players for drinking alcohol, they punish players for related offenses i.e. drunk driving.



The Commissioner will review and may impose a fine, suspension, or other appropriate discipline if a player is convicted of or admits to a violation of the law relating to the use of alcohol.

Alcohol is not one of their regularly tested substances. It only becomes so after a player enters the substance abuse program.


Moreover, the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players
in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy.

Of course, KRob is already in the program

Both of these quotes are from the official NFLPA policy at http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/rulesandregs/Drug_Policy_2005.pdf
Took me a bit to find it, but it's a good read if you've been following this thread.

[mngolf19]

Very well put, Woody.

[Guiness]

Something else surprised me from the policy


(2)Discipline for Second Failure to Comply in Stage Two: A player who has two Positive Tests in Stage Two; or fails twice, as determined by the Medical Director, to comply with his Treatment Plan in Stage Two; or has a Positive Test and fails to comply with his Treatment Plan, as determined by the Medical Director, will incur:

(a) A suspension for the period of time to cover four consecutive regular and post season games (including the Pro Bowl, if selected) without pay if the player was fined pursuant to Section E.2.b.(1)(a) above; and

(b) A suspension for the period of time to cover six consecutive regular and post season games (including the Pro Bowl, if selected) without pay if the player was suspended pursuant to Section E.2.b.(1)(b) above.”

So it's not really a 3 strike program. You actually get a strike 2 1/2.

Once again, this is academic in this case. KRob was on probation, and will likely go to jail if he's convicted, so an NFL suspension is of less consequence, I'd guess.

[woodbuck27]

Very well put, Woody.

Thank YOU Packer fan.

and ....GregJennings sorry... but you are not right man.

You are about using a human being, as once the owners of slaves once operated and why your great Nation stood devided in the Right's and GOOD of and for " the common man". Koren Robinson is sick Gregjennings.

To use him as you (GregJennings) propose is cruel - sickness.

INCOMPETENT on TT's behalf to GO THERE.

You never learned from your Nations History GregJennings.

Your ignorance stands against your better interests as a human being holistically.

You might consider more carefully what is right from wrong, as this issue stands for or against "the Green Bay Packer Organization" ??

What is bigger? YOU or THE RIGHT RESPONSE ?

May you GregJennings arrive... as I TRUST you will? :?: for YOU.

GOOD LUCK GregJennings. :mrgreen:

THE GREEN BAY PACKER - ORGANIZATION !!

[mngolf19]

I'm a Viking fan, Woody. But that's ok, I know what your saying. :lol:

[woodbuck27]

I'm a Viking fan, Woody. But that's ok, I know what your saying. :lol:

I apologize to you mngolf19. Of course, your a Viking fan.

What a difference between you and rastak and BEARMAN.

When willl BEARMAN hibernate? :mrgreen:

Congratulations on a hard fought win last night mngolf19 and Rastak.

I was at an establishment here in the Montreal area for supper last night and watched alot of that game.

I thought Brad Johnson looked very good.

Nice win over a decent team. :mrgreen:

GO PACK GO. Fan Faith for 2006 !

[MJZiggy]

Woody, the Bearman, as we speak is probably spewing trash all over the Lions' fan forum. He will be back to see us if they lose to try and soote his wounded feelings by rubbing in our last encounter.

[red]

if the nfl wants to make alcohol out to be this big banned substance that they are willing to suspend a player for a whole year if he chooses to do. then IMO they need to test every player everyday, and they need to stop letting beer companies advertise during games and at stadiums. and you know what, they need to stop selling at games, because i can promise you there are thousands of very drunk people driving around on the streets of green bay and every other nfl city after a game.

but then nfl wouldn't do that, even if it would keep people safe and safe lives, because they would lose 100's of millions of dollars



Red - the NFL does not want to make alcohol a 'big banned substance'. Actually, as far as I can tell, they could care less if the average player gets falling down drunk every day. It's a legal substance, and that's that. The NFL does not punish players for drinking alcohol, they punish players for related offenses i.e. drunk driving.



The Commissioner will review and may impose a fine, suspension, or other appropriate discipline if a player is convicted of or admits to a violation of the law relating to the use of alcohol.

Alcohol is not one of their regularly tested substances. It only becomes so after a player enters the substance abuse program.


Moreover, the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players
in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy.

Of course, KRob is already in the program

Both of these quotes are from the official NFLPA policy at http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/rulesandregs/Drug_Policy_2005.pdf
Took me a bit to find it, but it's a good read if you've been following this thread.

i did go on the nflpa site last night and found this same stuff. and i think you have two different things here

the first quote you gave is for breaking every day rules, and are on a case by case basis. like for instance you shoot someone, or break some other law. speeding and running from the cops while drunk would fall in this category. after the player is tried, AND if the player is found guilty, the comish then decides how big the fine or suspension would be. could be a game, could be for, could be a whole season, whatever the commish wants.

but then we get to the substance abuse and this line

“The illegal use of drugs and the abuse of prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, and alcohol (hereinafter referred to as "substances of abuse") is prohibited [ftnt 1] for players in the National Football League ("NFL"). Moreover, the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy."

then it gets sticky IMO. it says right there that alcohol in some cases is just as bad as illegal drugs, and certain players are prohibited. but does a test done by someone other then the nfl count? and if this goes to trial and the DWI gets thrown out, will it still count with the nfl? and will the nfl go as far as to suspend a guy for a whole year for drinking a few beers just like almost every other nfl player does?

the only difference is that k-rob has been caught being drunk a few times, and they haven't the nfl could put 85-90% of their players in the substance abuse program for drinking a few beers if they want too


Red, do you think that's been the mindset of those on this board, or would you like me to draw a similarly exaggerated opposing viewpoint.

There are folks here who just don't think this is the best thing for Koren Robinson right now, and who have questioned what effect it will have on the lockerroom.

i'm not sure what you're commenting on, but i'll take a guess.

rastak is calling a few of us a bunch of idiot jackasses because we can't see that k-rob has broke the law and will be locked up suspended for a year. myself and patler are arguing back, that this is america, and anything can happen. you are innocent until proven guilty, there are false police reports, there are plea bargains, there are tons of ways that this isn't an open and shut case that he will be locked up and suspended. OJ was found guilty in a civil trial of murder, yet he is free to walk. this is america, if you have the lawyers and the money, you can beat our legal system

[Rastak]

if the nfl wants to make alcohol out to be this big banned substance that they are willing to suspend a player for a whole year if he chooses to do. then IMO they need to test every player everyday, and they need to stop letting beer companies advertise during games and at stadiums. and you know what, they need to stop selling at games, because i can promise you there are thousands of very drunk people driving around on the streets of green bay and every other nfl city after a game.

but then nfl wouldn't do that, even if it would keep people safe and safe lives, because they would lose 100's of millions of dollars



Red - the NFL does not want to make alcohol a 'big banned substance'. Actually, as far as I can tell, they could care less if the average player gets falling down drunk every day. It's a legal substance, and that's that. The NFL does not punish players for drinking alcohol, they punish players for related offenses i.e. drunk driving.



The Commissioner will review and may impose a fine, suspension, or other appropriate discipline if a player is convicted of or admits to a violation of the law relating to the use of alcohol.

Alcohol is not one of their regularly tested substances. It only becomes so after a player enters the substance abuse program.


Moreover, the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players
in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy.

Of course, KRob is already in the program

Both of these quotes are from the official NFLPA policy at http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/rulesandregs/Drug_Policy_2005.pdf
Took me a bit to find it, but it's a good read if you've been following this thread.

i did go on the nflpa site last night and found this same stuff. and i think you have two different things here

the first quote you gave is for breaking every day rules, and are on a case by case basis. like for instance you shoot someone, or break some other law. speeding and running from the cops while drunk would fall in this category. after the player is tried, AND if the player is found guilty, the comish then decides how big the fine or suspension would be. could be a game, could be for, could be a whole season, whatever the commish wants.

but then we get to the substance abuse and this line

“The illegal use of drugs and the abuse of prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, and alcohol (hereinafter referred to as "substances of abuse") is prohibited [ftnt 1] for players in the National Football League ("NFL"). Moreover, the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy."

then it gets sticky IMO. it says right there that alcohol in some cases is just as bad as illegal drugs, and certain players are prohibited. but does a test done by someone other then the nfl count? and if this goes to trial and the DWI gets thrown out, will it still count with the nfl? and will the nfl go as far as to suspend a guy for a whole year for drinking a few beers just like almost every other nfl player does?

the only difference is that k-rob has been caught being drunk a few times, and they haven't the nfl could put 85-90% of their players in the substance abuse program for drinking a few beers if they want too


Red, do you think that's been the mindset of those on this board, or would you like me to draw a similarly exaggerated opposing viewpoint.

There are folks here who just don't think this is the best thing for Koren Robinson right now, and who have questioned what effect it will have on the lockerroom.

i'm not sure what you're commenting on, but i'll take a guess.

rastak is calling a few of us a bunch of idiot jackasses because we can't see that k-rob has broke the law and will be locked up suspended for a year. myself and patler are arguing back, that this is america, and anything can happen. you are innocent until proven guilty, there are false police reports, there are plea bargains, there are tons of ways that this isn't an open and shut case that he will be locked up and suspended. OJ was found guilty in a civil trial of murder, yet he is free to walk. this is america, if you have the lawyers and the money, you can beat our legal system


Red, I never called you that by the way. It's a forum and I gave you my opinion. You have yours, I have mine. Proven guilty? The DUI needs to be proven but the felony is self evident for all to see. Also, my understanding is that his trial doesn't need to happen for the NFL to lay down the one year suspension.

I just thought of something....I wonder if his case in Washington will be heard by a die hard Seahawk fan and his felony trial in Minnesota will be heard by a die hard Viking fan....? I'm 99% kidding on that, although a goofy judge isn't out of the realm of possibility.

[vince]

There appears to be two distinct sides to this possible addition of Koren Robinson to OUR 53 Man roster. Well three....

post condensed for space

Ted. ONLY ONE OPTION with Koren Robinson.

There's ONLY the " the possibility of what goes around comes around" in a decision to assist Koren Robinson in a FULL Re-Habilitation PROGRAM.

[Football's OUT for Koren Robinson till he gets HELP.
Woody, thanks for that great response. While it makes great sense, I personally don't see the Packers responsibility extending that far into an employee's personal freedoms, and I would be very surprised if the Packers go to the lengths you believe they must go to act in an "honorable" way. Many people believe (I'm one of them) that the "honorable" thing to do - in general terms - is to respect people's freedoms and right of self-determination.

It is not the Packers role, nor should it be, to act as any individual's judge. That is the role of our judicial system, and that is what Koren will need to deal with.

As an "honorable" organization, who cares for the well-being of their "people", I see your point, but as has been stated, Koren needs to want to kick alcoholism HIMSELF. Nothing that the Packers can dictate to him will eliminate his freedom and free will to do what he wants to do. All the Packers can do (and some would say - should) is provide him compensation for services rendered. That's the employer-employee relationship at its core. Will they go farther than that? I bet they do. Will they go as far as you believe they must? I doubt it. And I don't believe they should...

In any event, I definitly benefited from your very well-presented position. Thanks again.

[Terry]

Yes, idle, I remember the definition of insanity that you refer to. That definition could of course be reworked to read, "If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again and ye shall be adjudged insane."

In actuality, I don't really dispute, in some black and white sense, the team's culpability should things go very wrong. It's just a concept that is very difficult to quantify and cuts too many fine lines, imo, for this whole issue. My problem with it is how it sounds to people. Furthermore, it's just tenuous enough that people will apply it as it suits them. One cannot write laws (or should not) in a republic based on such concepts. As a practical matter, I don't think the Packers are culpable in the manner of which you speak. As a moral matter, that is a matter between them and something else - whether we think in terms of conscience, karma, universe, God, or any other name for divinity one wishes.



OJ was found guilty in a civil trial of murder, yet he is free to walk. this is america, if you have the lawyers and the money, you can beat our legal system

That's very misleading. Of course he is free to walk - he was found NOT guilty in a criminal trial with a jury of his peers. Personally, I always felt that the civil trial was a way to work around our system in terms of double jeopardy. For a democracy and a republic, it was a very dangerous precedent, imo. It undermines everything the Founding Fathers stood for.

I do agree with your second quoted statement here. That's the way it's always been, everywhere.

[Tarlam!]

O.K. I read all 11 pages and I listened to the K-Rob video on Packers.com.

I sincerely hope the holier-than-thou posters never face serious adversity combined with alcohol.

Serious adversity can come in various forms, like massive success. Massive, unexpected success can rock your boat in ways you never dreamed. Coping with it is tougher than you might think. There is a reason why power-ball winners are offered ongoing payments of their winnings - namely, so that they can grow accustomed to being filthy rich. It is not an easy adjustment.

I live in Germany. The vast majority of lotto winners (the equivalent of power-ball) have at best, pissed away their money by the 3rd year. At worst, they in hocked up to their eyeballs.

I also read about a corporate accounts guy on an early page saying he uses alcohol with his clients. I am in the same game, I used to joke about having a liver transplant option put into my employment contract.

I don't know how old you are, but, I advise you to start drinking Perrier. I could show you a before and after shot of me. If you are young enough, you would stop immediately. Alcohol is a fun drug, but it takes control when you least expect it.

Robinson has a disease, like me. He is an alcoholic. Like me. He probably started drinking quite innocently, or, cause that's what one does.

He blew 1.1. That's a frigging laughable number for a liver that is used to digesting half a bottle of Johnnie Walker per day. 4 beers for a heavy drinker is nothing. Nothing.

I know you have speed limits on your motorways. Some of you know, most of our motorways have no speed limits. So, I drive to work at 220 kmh. 120 Mph is "normal" around here.

Clearly, though, the guy is sick. TT has known this kid since college. TT, IMO, believes the player and the club can help each other cope with their respective deficiencies. In terms of dollars and cents, TT made sure the club has the high ground.

In the battle of the moral high ground, TT knew the shit would hit the fan. TT has put himself in an almost can't win situation with this signing; if Krob screws up, TT is a bad judge of character. If he doesn't play well, he is a poor judge of player potential. If Krob cops a year off, TT wasted a 2006/7 roster spot. If he gets off, TT will have manipulated something.

If Krob has any success, pundits from across the league will always use the byline "...but, how long before he visits the pub?"....

TT showed a lot of guts with this signed.

Ras, I really like you, but your opinions on this sound like a disappointed fan that went through the same torturous debate, probably accepted the signing only to be disappointed. I know how that feels in family related issues, I recognize the symptoms.

[Patler]

OJ was found guilty in a civil trial of murder, yet he is free to walk. this is america, if you have the lawyers and the money, you can beat our legal system

That's very misleading. Of course he is free to walk - he was found NOT guilty in a criminal trial with a jury of his peers. Personally, I always felt that the civil trial was a way to work around our system in terms of double jeopardy. For a democracy and a republic, it was a very dangerous precedent, imo. It undermines everything the Founding Fathers stood for.
.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Civil trials following criminal trials have happened forever. Different issues, different standards of proof. It is not that unusual for someone to be both "not guilty" when the standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the verdict must be unanimous; and found civilly liable for damages ($) when the standard is some form of a "preponderance of evidence" and the verdict requires only a simple majority of the jurors.

[red]

patler, i didn't understand a word you just said

[J-Rok]

My only question: Can the guy get open?

[oregonpackfan]

O.K. I read all 11 pages and I listened to the K-Rob video on Packers.com.

I sincerely hope the holier-than-thou posters never face serious adversity combined with alcohol.

Serious adversity can come in various forms, like massive success. Massive, unexpected success can rock your boat in ways you never dreamed. Coping with it is tougher than you might think. There is a reason why power-ball winners are offered ongoing payments of their winnings - namely, so that they can grow accustomed to being filthy rich. It is not an easy adjustment.

I live in Germany. The vast majority of lotto winners (the equivalent of power-ball) have at best, pissed away their money by the 3rd year. At worst, they in hocked up to their eyeballs.

I also read about a corporate accounts guy on an early page saying he uses alcohol with his clients. I am in the same game, I used to joke about having a liver transplant option put into my employment contract.

I don't know how old you are, but, I advise you to start drinking Perrier. I could show you a before and after shot of me. If you are young enough, you would stop immediately. Alcohol is a fun drug, but it takes control when you least expect it.

Robinson has a disease, like me. He is an alcoholic. Like me. He probably started drinking quite innocently, or, cause that's what one does.

He blew 1.1. That's a frigging laughable number for a liver that is used to digesting half a bottle of Johnnie Walker per day. 4 beers for a heavy drinker is nothing. Nothing.

I know you have speed limits on your motorways. Some of you know, most of our motorways have no speed limits. So, I drive to work at 220 kmh. 120 Mph is "normal" around here.

Clearly, though, the guy is sick. TT has known this kid since college. TT, IMO, believes the player and the club can help each other cope with their respective deficiencies. In terms of dollars and cents, TT made sure the club has the high ground.

In the battle of the moral high ground, TT knew the shit would hit the fan. TT has put himself in an almost can't win situation with this signing; if Krob screws up, TT is a bad judge of character. If he doesn't play well, he is a poor judge of player potential. If Krob cops a year off, TT wasted a 2006/7 roster spot. If he gets off, TT will have manipulated something.

If Krob has any success, pundits from across the league will always use the byline "...but, how long before he visits the pub?"....

TT showed a lot of guts with this signed.

Ras, I really like you, but your opinions on this sound like a disappointed fan that went through the same torturous debate, probably accepted the signing only to be disappointed. I know how that feels in family related issues, I recognize the symptoms.

Tarlam,

Thank you for your insightful and revealing post.

In an earlier post, I posed the question: What is the best course of action for Koren Robinson in dealing with his disease of alcoholism?

Do you feel he should be in an intensive alcohol rehab center to focus on his recovery and not play pro football? Or is it your opinion that he receive private out-patient alcohol counseling and continue to play for the Packers?

I am aware that Robinson already has been in alcohol rehab at least once, if not, a couple of times. It is my understanding that some alcoholics/substance abusers need several rehab stints to finally become sober/clean.

Your input would be appreciated, Tarlam.

OPF

[Patler]

patler, i didn't understand a word you just said

Sorry, let me try again.


First, red wrote:

"OJ was found guilty in a civil trial of murder, yet he is free to walk. this is america, if you have the lawyers and the money, you can beat our legal system"

to which Terry responded;

"That's very misleading. Of course he is free to walk - he was found NOT guilty in a criminal trial with a jury of his peers. Personally, I always felt that the civil trial was a way to work around our system in terms of double jeopardy. For a democracy and a republic, it was a very dangerous precedent, imo. It undermines everything the Founding Fathers stood for."
.

I was responding to Terry's comment, "Personally, I always felt that the civil trial was a way to work around our system in terms of double jeopardy. For a democracy and a republic, it was a very dangerous precedent, imo. It undermines everything the Founding Fathers stood for."

I'm not quite sure what Tery meant by it. Civil trials have followed criminal trials for the same deeds forever. This was not something new in the OJ situation, and it really did not set any precedant.

Criminal trials and civil trials have different issues and different standards of proof for success. It is not that unusual for someone to be both "not guilty" in the criminal trial yet found liable in a civil trial for the same activity.

In a criminal trial the government is trying to punish the person for what was done. he might go to prison,be fined, etc. The criminal trial has a standard of proof of "beyond a reasonable doubt". The juror must believe he did it "beyond a reasonable doubt" before voting "guilty" and the verdict must be unanimous, all jurors agreeing to it for the guy to be convicted.

In a civil trial the people that were injured (the plaintiffs) are suing for compensation for the injury inflicted. The standard of proof is some form of a "preponderance of evidence", "more likely than not" etc. This is much lower than the criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt". The civil trial verdict requires only that a simple majority of the jurors agree for the person to be held liable..

The standard is much higher in the criminal trial because the guy can be sent to prison or in some way punished by the state. The standard is lower in a civil trial when all he has to do is pay money to compensate the people that were injured.

The difference between the OJ criminal trial and the later civil trial filed by the family was not surprising at all.

[gbpackfan]

I don't care about K-Rob's off the field issues. I'm sorry, I don't.

I want to win. I don't want to be embarassed. I don't want to lose to the Bears.

K-Rob can help. End of story.

Christl needs to get off his soap box and shut the fuck up! Should the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel fire him when he screws up outside of work? I bet that guy has a million skeletons in his closet. It's just a shame that no one writes stories about him. Oh that's right, NO ONE CARES ABOUT CRUSTY CHRISTL! What an ass wipe.

[FritzDontBlitz]

just got home. was originally intending to avoid every packer site because i got so tired of all the mindless venting yesterday, but i couldn't stay away. i saw on jso that k-rob got signed. i say good move. i know he has a checkered past but no one knows that better than tt. i sincerely hope tt's right, and not just because i think k-rob has serious talent (i was hoping green bay would have drafted him but holmgren snatched him first). alcoholism is a disease that requires two things: treatment and a positive environment full of people who encourage you to stay clean rather than "enable" you (allow it to happen by covering for you, making excuses to rationalize/condone abuse or just looking the other way). k-rob obviously was in the wrong environment in minnesota. i believe green bay will be good for him as a person. remember donald driver's comments when asked if k-rob would be welcome on the team? driver gave an enthusiastic yes and said the guys on the team are all married for the most part and would be a good support group for him. if i had a say in who k-rob should hang out with i would suggest batman for his tireless work ethic and i'd sic kgb on him to try to evangelize him - trust me guys, the drinking is an obvious sign to fill a void in k-rob's life and that's what evangelism is about (my apologies to the forum moderators if religion is not allowed here). but, you get my point: k-rob needs the right influences around him to steer him away from his self-destructive tendencies. i believe the ONLY reason tt didn't sign k-rob last week was because he didn't want to eat his previous contract, NOT because he was desperate for help after the loss to the bears. i welcome the guy and hope he does a good job both on and off the field.

as for the incredibly hypocritical question "what if he had killed somebody while he was driving?" i think whoever asked that should ask every nfl team the same question because every stadium let's thousands of fans drive home drunk after every game. and cliff christl has to be the biggest hypocrite in the state of wisconsin - the guy has the classic LOOK of a closet lush...

[Guiness]

Red, I never called you that by the way. It's a forum and I gave you my opinion. You have yours, I have mine. Proven guilty? The DUI needs to be proven but the felony is self evident for all to see. Also, my understanding is that his trial doesn't need to happen for the NFL to lay down the one year suspension.

I asked that earlier - saying I was surprised that the NFL hadn't acted more quickly on what seems to be a pretty self evident conclusion - the answer was that for the most part, the NFL will wait until he is proven guilty before assessing their own punishment.

I guess the reasoning would be what others are pointing out - shit can happen

[devil's advocate]What if the NFL suspends him (taking away his livelihood), he goes to court, and it gets found out that the cop who charged him is some college DB that he burnt badly in college, and still holds a grudge? And he chased KRob down in an attempt at vengence?[/devil's advocate]


I just thought of something....I wonder if his case in Washington will be heard by a die hard Seahawk fan and his felony trial in Minnesota will be heard by a die hard Viking fan....? I'm 99% kidding on that, although a goofy judge isn't out of the realm of possibility.

You have goofy judges down there? Come on, it's all good, isn't it?

[Guiness]

My only question: Can the guy get open?

BOMNF!!!

[Guiness]

I know you have speed limits on your motorways. Some of you know, most of our motorways have no speed limits. So, I drive to work at 220 kmh. 120 Mph is "normal" around here.


Just a comment Tarlam - as far as I know, this wasn't a motorway/freeway designed for high speed driving. It was a surface road with crossing intersections.

Anyone familiar with the section of road he was arrested on? What exactly is it like?

[vince]

I know you have speed limits on your motorways. Some of you know, most of our motorways have no speed limits. So, I drive to work at 220 kmh. 120 Mph is "normal" around here.


Just a comment Tarlam - as far as I know, this wasn't a motorway/freeway designed for high speed driving. It was a surface road with crossing intersections.

Anyone familiar with the section of road he was arrested on? What exactly is it like?
It was a highway with a 55 mph speed limit.

[Rastak]

I know you have speed limits on your motorways. Some of you know, most of our motorways have no speed limits. So, I drive to work at 220 kmh. 120 Mph is "normal" around here.


Just a comment Tarlam - as far as I know, this wasn't a motorway/freeway designed for high speed driving. It was a surface road with crossing intersections.

Anyone familiar with the section of road he was arrested on? What exactly is it like?
It was a highway with a 55 mph speed limit.


Just for accuracy, once he got into town it was 40-50 through stop signs on city streets.....per stuff I read. I'm sure the trial will get that into the public domain....

[Tarlam!]

Tarlam,

Thank you for your insightful and revealing post.

In an earlier post, I posed the question: What is the best course of action for Koren Robinson in dealing with his disease of alcoholism?

Do you feel he should be in an intensive alcohol rehab center to focus on his recovery and not play pro football? Or is it your opinion that he receive private out-patient alcohol counseling and continue to play for the Packers?

I am aware that Robinson already has been in alcohol rehab at least once, if not, a couple of times. It is my understanding that some alcoholics/substance abusers need several rehab stints to finally become sober/clean.

Your input would be appreciated, Tarlam.

OPF

OPF, thanks for asking. I think each alcoholic has their own issues and symptoms.

I read a poster that now enjoys success and sobriety saying he wanted to die every morning and every night while trying to kick it.

Y'know, I have never had physical symptoms. Ever. There are various forms of alcoholism. Regular binge drinkers are, in fact, alcoholics. Yet they do not require alcohol every day. They need a good blast every now and again and, society actually condones even applauds such behaviour.

I drink every day. But I have had lengthy periods of abstinance. I am a little more impatient than ususual during those periods. I am also not an aggressive alcoholic. I do know, however, that I am vastly shortening my life span by drinking the amounts that I do, and that weighs me down. Despite this knowledge, I drink. And I smoke, too.

Moral apostles that have chosen not to understand the disease sweep every alcoholic with the same broom. The fact is, this disease is very cunning. My advice to anyone here is to deepen your understanding of the disease before you start throwing stones at Krob.

I don't know what his issues were/are. I don't know if he can enjoy sobriety or if he will have the feeling something is missing from his otherwise complete life.

At the end of the day, Krob is responsible for Krob. I am responsible for me. I didn't get the sense Krob was blaming anybody but himself for his situation. Neither do I.

Success can lead you to the bottle, just as quickly as failure in life. I can promise you that.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I say we should just use him as long as he's not suspended, only pay him for the weeks we use like TT did with the contract and then cut him when we no longer have use for him if it gets to that.

Forget about fixing this guy. If he wants help, he can get it himself.

This sounds a little cold, but accurately reflects what's going on. Thompson made a judgement that the kid won't be disruptive, and he took a chance.

[MadtownPacker]

This sounds a little cold, but accurately reflects what's going on. Thompson made a judgement that the kid won't be disruptive, and he took a chance.
Jennings (the poster) is a whacked in the head chump who turns his back on his supposed team after one game. That is the lowest of the low IMO. At least the bears trolls and Rastak the sinless are fans of thier teams.

I have 0 respect for a punk like GJ and I hope he goes to a PR get together at one of the games so I can tell him to his face.

[Harlan Huckleby]

try breathing into a paper bag.

[Rastak]

That is the lowest of the low IMO. At least the bears trolls and Rastak the sinless are fans of thier teams.


Rastak the sinless.....LOL...... :mrgreen:

[MadtownPacker]

try breathing into a paper bag.OK and you try breathing into a plastic one.

I will be stopping by your house too so clean it up and start digging your Buffalo Bob style hole for me like on Silence of the Lambs.


Rastak - Yes the sinless.

I cant understand why people wont give KR his last chance cuz this will most likely be his last. Like I said in a earlier post, he could have killed someone but didnt. Little from the Rams, straight up killed someone. Not hurt, killed. I read the SI article a long time ago. Made me want to puke. he didnt understand why the family wouldnt accept his apology. Guess he figured getting another DUI after all that would make them feel better that he took a wife and mothers life and yet not only is he a free man, he is a very rich one too!

KR didnt but he is a lost man right now. Maybe going to GB can help him, maybe he can change. I feel he will likely fail but I am willing to let him try. Have any of you ever failed or been a let down?

[Rastak]

try breathing into a paper bag.OK and you try breathing into a plastic one.

I will be stopping by your house too so clean it up and start digging your Buffalo Bob style hole for me like on Silence of the Lambs.


Rastak - Yes the sinless.

I cant understand why people wont give KR his last chance cuz this will most likely be his last. Like I said in a earlier post, he could have killed someone but didnt. Little from the Rams, straight up killed someone. Not hurt, killed. I read the SI article a long time ago. Made me want to puke. he didnt understand why the family wouldnt accept his apology. Guess he figured getting another DUI after all that would make them feel better that he took a wife and mothers life and yet not only is he a free man, he is a very rich one too!

KR didnt but he is a lost man right now. Maybe going to GB can help him, maybe he can change. I feel he will likely fail but I am willing to let him try. Have any of you ever failed or been a let down?



Hey, it was you Mad who said HAHAHAHAHAHA if I recall correctly.....and I do!

Hey, I've been let down....by this very guy just a few weeks ago. He let down his entire team but he's your problem now.

[jack's smirking revenge]

That is the lowest of the low IMO. At least the bears trolls and Rastak the sinless are fans of thier teams.


Rastak the sinless.....LOL...... :mrgreen:

It's a longhair thing... :wink:

tyler

[mraynrand]

I think you just hire a really good PR (not Packer Rats, Public Relations) firm and have them available when K-Rob runs someone over after a bender. The PR firm can do a character assassination of the victim (guy LIKED to walk in front of cars going 100 MPH, he smelled bad, his three kids won't REALLY miss him because he was a tough disciplinarian, you know, that sort of thing), play up the K-Rob has a disease angle, TT is actually up for sainthood for giving the guy another chance, etc. I don't think K-Rob's 'problem' is really serious until he gets 10 or so DUIs. And a lot of 'well-respected' judges agree with me.

[Rastak]

That is the lowest of the low IMO. At least the bears trolls and Rastak the sinless are fans of thier teams.


Rastak the sinless.....LOL...... :mrgreen:

It's a longhair thing... :wink:

tyler

I'm lucky I didn't get convicted of "Walking while drunk" last Sunday.

[MadtownPacker]

Hey, it was you Mad who said HAHAHAHAHAHA if I recall correctly.....and I do!

Hey, I've been let down....by this very guy just a few weeks ago. He let down his entire team but he's your problem now.
Yes but that is when something bad happened. Now something good is happening to him and I have to back the Pack. This move is either gonna blow up in TT face or help the team greatly.

While he was a bad guy with the purple he was productive. I wanna see what he does with Favre.

[Rastak]

Hey, it was you Mad who said HAHAHAHAHAHA if I recall correctly.....and I do!

Hey, I've been let down....by this very guy just a few weeks ago. He let down his entire team but he's your problem now.
Yes but that is when something bad happened. Now something good is happening to him and I have to back the Pack. This move is either gonna blow up in TT face or help the team greatly.

While he was a bad guy with the purple he was productive. I wanna see what he does with Favre.


If he's using he probably won't be but if not he's pretty talented.

[Harlan Huckleby]

try breathing into a paper bag.OK and you try breathing into a plastic one.

I will be stopping by your house too so clean it up and start digging your Buffalo Bob style hole for me like on Silence of the Lambs.


I don't know what this shit means, but I think Mad is coming to stay with me and is going to rape me. Whatever, I'll just go with the flow.

[Joemailman]

With Koren Robinson on the team, are the Packers going to have to stop running beer commercials on the scoreboard during timeouts at Lambeau?

[MadtownPacker]

I think you just hire a really good PR (not Packer Rats, Public Relations) firm and have them available when K-Rob runs someone over after a bender. The PR firm can do a character assassination of the victim (guy LIKED to walk in front of cars going 100 MPH, he smelled bad, his three kids won't REALLY miss him because he was a tough disciplinarian, you know, that sort of thing), play up the K-Rob has a disease angle, TT is actually up for sainthood for giving the guy another chance, etc. I don't think K-Rob's 'problem' is really serious until he gets 10 or so DUIs. And a lot of 'well-respected' judges agree with me.Can you answer this question.

Have you EVER drove after having a a few brews? Maybe more then a few? Maybe tore up? Maybe something besides drinking?

[Packers4Ever]

This is terrible news. Now I know it's gonna be a looooooooooong season.

I know a guy who worked security at the players entrances when K-Rob was with Seattle. The guy was always the last player thru the entrance on game day,always. Always showing up with bloodshot eyes and looking like he just woke up (that's secret code for obviously on weed) and smelling like alchohol.

I'd rather have Hunt Walker and Jackson back than this guy regardless of talent. Bad move TT. Bad move.

:sad:

K-Rob was with Seattle for 4 years frequently observed in that condition and the whole Seahawks organization allowed it to go on? They must be a lenient crowd out there! :wink:

[GBRulz]

Man, I wish some of you would come here and see half the players that are out and about getting pissed up on any given night.

Robinson has been busted for it and others haven't, so of course we don't hear about others. I could tell you countless stories of Favre being out and about, back in the day. We're talking fall down drunk, causing fights, grabbing women, having bathrooms sealed off so he could get it on with chics, etc. Now, he is the golden child of GB.

So, here we have another person with a drinking problem coming toGB. Favre came here and turned his life around. Why can't Koren? I mean how many of you were calling for Wolf's head when he traded our #1 pick for some drunk kid from Atlanta?

Right now this team needs all the help it can get. If Koren is the answer and cleans up his act, so quickly will some of you change your tune. Except rastak who of course has his own bitterness and emotions, for good reason.

Ok, not an apples to apples comparison, but if you are all so concerned with drinking and driving violations, go join MADD. that's MADD, not MAD :wink:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Give me a break. I'm going to beat my head up against this wall.

[Fosco33]

'I'm going to beat' :beat:


Just thought this was funny - nothing to do with you Harv.

[MadtownPacker]

Careful you dont break through it. I doubt you have one of those high quality trailers. :razz:

[mraynrand]

I think you just hire a really good PR (not Packer Rats, Public Relations) firm and have them available when K-Rob runs someone over after a bender. The PR firm can do a character assassination of the victim (guy LIKED to walk in front of cars going 100 MPH, he smelled bad, his three kids won't REALLY miss him because he was a tough disciplinarian, you know, that sort of thing), play up the K-Rob has a disease angle, TT is actually up for sainthood for giving the guy another chance, etc. I don't think K-Rob's 'problem' is really serious until he gets 10 or so DUIs. And a lot of 'well-respected' judges agree with me.Can you answer this question.

Have you EVER drove after having a a few brews? Maybe more then a few? Maybe tore up? Maybe something besides drinking?
--------

The answer is NO. I'm no saint, but I don't drink and drive. If I know I'm going to drink, I get someone else to drive. And I cover for friends who are going to get ripped. And I've never touched any non-prescription drugs other than alcohol. That's the truth. Maybe there's some people out there that have seen up close what drinking and driving can do, what alcoholism can do, and they'll know where I'm coming from. I've seen both, seen the carnage and the destroyed lives and it just isn't worth it.

[Partial]

Man, I wish some of you would come here and see half the players that are out and about getting pissed up on any given night.

Robinson has been busted for it and others haven't, so of course we don't hear about others. I could tell you countless stories of Favre being out and about, back in the day. We're talking fall down drunk, causing fights, grabbing women, having bathrooms sealed off so he could get it on with chics, etc. Now, he is the golden child of GB.

So, here we have another person with a drinking problem coming toGB. Favre came here and turned his life around. Why can't Koren? I mean how many of you were calling for Wolf's head when he traded our #1 pick for some drunk kid from Atlanta?

Right now this team needs all the help it can get. If Koren is the answer and cleans up his act, so quickly will some of you change your tune. Except rastak who of course has his own bitterness and emotions, for good reason.

Ok, not an apples to apples comparison, but if you are all so concerned with drinking and driving violations, go join MADD. that's MADD, not MAD :wink:

This guy has shown what he can do in the league though and it is just not worth it. Brett also didn't get caught multiple times and face a year suspension. Brett recognized he had a problem and cleaned his act up. Koren has recognized it many times and failed to do clean up his act. I am not ignorant and I do believe they guys go out drinking all the time, boning every chick willing to do so, and smoking all the pot in the world. However, mature, good players learn their lesson after the first time, and definitely the second time.

[Terry]

I cant understand why people wont give KR his last chance cuz this will most likely be his last. Like I said in a earlier post, he could have killed someone but didnt. Little from the Rams, straight up killed someone. Not hurt, killed. I read the SI article a long time ago. Made me want to puke. he didnt understand why the family wouldnt accept his apology. Guess he figured getting another DUI after all that would make them feel better that he took a wife and mothers life and yet not only is he a free man, he is a very rich one too!

I'm not against the signing, but just for the sake of proper perspective, Little isn't really a legitimate comparison. Little had no background of such behaviour. He screwed up big time and paid his penalty. He has devoted more community service (and still does, I think) than the judge sentenced him to, following his jail time. He seems quite shaken by what happened, as most of us would be, and this will probably haunt him his entire life. Little represents an entirely different kind of scenario.

[Terry]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Civil trials following criminal trials have happened forever. Different issues, different standards of proof. It is not that unusual for someone to be both "not guilty" when the standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the verdict must be unanimous; and found civilly liable for damages ($) when the standard is some form of a "preponderance of evidence" and the verdict requires only a simple majority of the jurors.

Yes, Patler, I'm aware of the differences. And perhaps I exaggerated. Furthermore, if the history of jurisprudence in America prior to, say, 1980, is filled with the occasional but regular occurences of an acquitted murder suspect being sued successfully by families of victims, I stand corrected. I didn't know this.

If you are talking primarily about convicted murderers or other type criminals then also being sued for the families to get recompense, I think that's an entirely different type of situation.

So let me rephrase. In the OJ case, with all the high publicity, what disturbed me was exemplified by what Red wrote - the public perception that a murderer was convicted and still is able to walk around free. That's not the case.

[MadtownPacker]

I'm not against the signing, but just for the sake of proper perspective, Little isn't really a legitimate comparison. Little had no background of such behaviour. He screwed up big time and paid his penalty. He has devoted more community service (and still does, I think) than the judge sentenced him to, following his jail time. He seems quite shaken by what happened, as most of us would be, and this will probably haunt him his entire life. Little represents an entirely different kind of scenario.He had no background or had just never been caught? How much jail time did he serve? If he was so shaken why did he get ANOTHER DUI after?

[MadtownPacker]

The NFL suspended him for ONLY eight games (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/1999/11/09/little_rams_ap/) and he was sentenced to 90 days in a halfway house. For killing someone??

6 years later he got another DUI! Is say he has quite a background now.

Little, 29, was arrested shortly before 4 a.m. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/rams/2004-04-26-little-charged_x.htm) Saturday after police in the St. Louis suburb of Ladue pulled him over for reportedly traveling 78 mph in a 55-mph zone on Interstate 64

[Fosco33]

The NFL suspended him for ONLY eight games (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/1999/11/09/little_rams_ap/) and he was sentenced to 90 days in a halfway house. For killing someone??

6 years later he got another DUI! Is say he has quite a background now.

Little, 29, was arrested shortly before 4 a.m. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/rams/2004-04-26-little-charged_x.htm) Saturday after police in the St. Louis suburb of Ladue pulled him over for reportedly traveling 78 mph in a 55-mph zone on Interstate 64

'Authorities said Little's blood alcohol level was nearly twice the legal limit.'

So, this guy gets suspended for half a year for driving at about .16 and killing someone - how can Robinson get suspended for a year for .09 and speeding/evading? I could see like 4 games as reasonable with these standards.

[Rastak]

The NFL suspended him for ONLY eight games (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/1999/11/09/little_rams_ap/) and he was sentenced to 90 days in a halfway house. For killing someone??

6 years later he got another DUI! Is say he has quite a background now.

Little, 29, was arrested shortly before 4 a.m. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/rams/2004-04-26-little-charged_x.htm) Saturday after police in the St. Louis suburb of Ladue pulled him over for reportedly traveling 78 mph in a 55-mph zone on Interstate 64

'Authorities said Little's blood alcohol level was nearly twice the legal limit.'

So, this guy gets suspended for half a year for driving at about .16 and killing someone - how can Robinson get suspended for a year for .09 and speeding/evading? I could see like 4 games as reasonable with these standards.


Where was Little in the subastance abuse program? Strike 1 2 3 or 4?
Robinson's next suspension is MANDATED at one year I think. He already did his 4 game suspension and couldn't be bothered with complying with the terms laid down by the league.


By the way, I'm amazed Little didn't get a nice stretch in the brick shithouse for what he did. League suspension is nothing.

[Terry]

He had no background or had just never been caught? How much jail time did he serve? If he was so shaken why did he get ANOTHER DUI after?

Well, I dunno what he hasn't been caught at. I also don't know that what a felon does not get caught at worries me any more than what anyone else doesn't get caught at.

Why don't we walk into some school anywhere, pick some male teacher at random (preferably a single one), and start asking students, "How do we know he's not homosexual?" and then keep watch for a year or two to see how much damage can be done to a human being by 'only' asking a question about possibilities?

I didn't know he had another DUI six years after. But I didn't say he wasn't stupid, I just said he was shaken. Nothing about having another DUI contradicts that.

[MadtownPacker]

Well, I dunno what he hasn't been caught at. I also don't know that what a felon does not get caught at worries me any more than what anyone else doesn't get caught at.

Why don't we walk into some school anywhere, pick some male teacher at random (preferably a single one), and start asking students, "How do we know he's not homosexual?" and then keep watch for a year or two to see how much damage can be done to a human being by 'only' asking a question about possibilities?

I didn't know he had another DUI six years after. But I didn't say he wasn't stupid, I just said he was shaken. Nothing about having another DUI contradicts that.How do we know "he's not homosexual"??? Since when is that illegal? I think you have answered many questions with that comment.

My point that you are obviously missing is that KR messed up, yes, but Little has done much worse then violate the NFLs little policy and he still plays.

Talk to me when KR has actually hurt someone but keep avoiding that Little has KILLED someone.

Dont say its not the same cuz both where driving and both where drunk.

[Patler]

So let me rephrase. In the OJ case, with all the high publicity, what disturbed me was exemplified by what Red wrote - the public perception that a murderer was convicted and still is able to walk around free. That's not the case.

I don't think Red had it wrong, except for perhaps the use of the term "guilty". The civil trial did find OJ responsible for the deaths, hence the award of damages to the plaintiffs. In my perception most people think he was guilty, should have been convicted, but was acquitted because of a combination of police not doing their best, prosecuters being out matched by OJ's defense team, the defense team confusing the issues, celebrities rarely being convicted, etc. The civil trial merely adds credibility to that belief.

I often wonder how that trial would go today. DNA evidence was quite new when they used it at the OJ trial. I wonder if the prosecuters would have handled it better. He probably still would have walked, based on the celebrity factor. I always wondered why the state didn't put someone on the stand to explain that if you mishandle evidence it might destroy DNA evidence, but it doesn't turn someone else's DNA into OJ's.

[Rastak]

Well, I dunno what he hasn't been caught at. I also don't know that what a felon does not get caught at worries me any more than what anyone else doesn't get caught at.

Why don't we walk into some school anywhere, pick some male teacher at random (preferably a single one), and start asking students, "How do we know he's not homosexual?" and then keep watch for a year or two to see how much damage can be done to a human being by 'only' asking a question about possibilities?

I didn't know he had another DUI six years after. But I didn't say he wasn't stupid, I just said he was shaken. Nothing about having another DUI contradicts that.How do we know "he's not homosexual"??? Since when is that illegal? I think you have answered many questions with that comment.

My point that you are obviously missing is that KR messed up, yes, but Little has done much worse then violate the NFLs little policy and he still plays.

Talk to me when KR has actually hurt someone but keep avoiding that Little has KILLED someone.

Dont say its not the same cuz both where driving and both where drunk.


Hey Mad, do the world of criminals a favor and don't ever become a defense lawyer....


Your honor, my client may be an asshole but this other guy is even worse....


:wink: