2020 free agency thread

[RashanGary]

Bryan Bulaga
Tramon Williams
Mason Crosby
Jared Veldheer
Geronimo Allison
Marcedes Lewis
Jason Spriggs
Ryan Grant
Blake Martinez
Kyler Fackrell
B.J. Goodson
Ibraheim Campbel
Tyler Ervin

Word is, if we cut Graham and Taylor we're 44M beneith the cap. What do we do with it? Who do we keep?

[RashanGary]

I'd keep Bulaga and Crosby.
Blake and Fackrell if they're cheap.

Let's say that's 20M

So we'd have like 24M to spend. Extend Jones and Clark early. Knocks it down to maybe 12M. Don't know if the rookie cap is a part of that. We might have room for 1 higher priced FA. Maybe 2.

[call_me_ishmael]

Bulaga and Lewis are must re-signs IMO. The rest can go and won't cost much anyway.

[Joemailman]

Unrestricted Free Agents. Should they stay or should they go:

Blake Martinez - Depends on his market value. He's the best Packers have, but not worth elite money.
Bryan Bulaga - Still one of the best. Sign him.
Kyler Fackrell - Valuable role player. Might have to let him go though if some team wants to pay him starter money.
Mason Crosby - Still one of the best, and a team leader.
Will Redmond - Doesn't cost anything. Probably worth bringing him back for a look.
Dan Vitale - Another guy who shouldn't cost much. Bring him back.
Tyler Ervin - Bring him back. Stabilized the return game, and showed some promise on offense.
Ryan Grant - Who knows? Never saw the guy play.
Ibraheim Campbell - Decent role player. Bring him back.
Jason Spriggs - A failed high pick. Let him go.
Marcedes Lewis - Best blocking Tight End and a team leader. Bring him back.
Geronimo Allison - Need more speed at WR and he regressed this year. Let him go.
Jared Veldheer - Nice backup option. Bring him back.
BJ Goodson. Let him go. Need an upgrade here.
Tramon Williams - Let him go unless he wants to play for significantly less money.

Exclusive Rights Free Agents:

Allen Lazard - A real find. Sign him.
Tyler Lancaster - Probably need an upgrade here. Maybe sign him for minimum.
Robert Tonyan - Worth another look. Sign him.
Chandon Sullivan - Same as Tonyan
Jake Kumerow - Better than Allison. Bring him back.

Some guys who are not Free Agents:

Jimmy Graham - Not worth the money. Save 8 million by cutting him.
Lane Taylor - Let him go. Save 4.5 million by cutting him.
Aaron Jones - Offense revolves around him. Sign him to extension.
Kenny Clark - Best defensive lineman. Sign him to extension.

[mraynrand]

^^^ So what you're really saying here is that you didn't drink much whiskey last night.

[Patler]

I doubt they will cut Taylor early in the off season. Carrying him through the off season isn't expensive, just a $250K workout bonus.
On the other hand, Turner has a roster bonus of $3M and a workout bonus of $350K during the off season.

When healthy, I think Taylor is a slightly better player, although that now goes back two years. I would rather stop the cash and cap hemorrhaging at the $11M already spent for Turner, rather than paying the additional almost $5.5M for another year of a mediocre guard. Taylor's cash cost for '20 is only $4.5, and his contract is up.

Keep Taylor and cut Turner, unless the plan is to move Turner to RT and not re-sign Bulaga.

[ThunderDan]

I doubt they will cut Taylor early in the off season. Carrying him through the off season isn't expensive, just a $250K workout bonus.
On the other hand, Turner has a roster bonus of $3M and a workout bonus of $350K during the off season.

When healthy, I think Taylor is a slightly better player, although that now goes back two years. I would rather stop the cash and cap hemorrhaging at the $11M already spent for Turner, rather than paying the additional almost $5.5M for another year of a mediocre guard. Taylor's cash cost for '20 is only $4.5, and his contract is up.

Keep Taylor and cut Turner, unless the plan is to move Turner to RT and not re-sign Bulaga.

Cutting Turner, while saving the Packers cash, doesn't even clear $1,000,000 in cap space for 2020.

[Joemailman]

I think it's doubtful that Taylor in a zone blocking scheme is a better player than Turner. He was losing snaps to Jenkins even before he got hurt. Plus, Turner's ability to play Tackle gives him more value than Taylor.

[run pMc]

Unrestricted Free Agents. Should they stay or should they go:

Blake Martinez - Depends on his market value. He's the best Packers have, but not worth elite money.
Bryan Bulaga - Still one of the best. Sign him.
Kyler Fackrell - Valuable role player. Might have to let him go though if some team wants to pay him starter money.
Mason Crosby - Still one of the best, and a team leader.
Will Redmond - Doesn't cost anything. Probably worth bringing him back for a look.
Dan Vitale - Another guy who shouldn't cost much. Bring him back.
Tyler Ervin - Bring him back. Stabilized the return game, and showed some promise on offense.
Ryan Grant - Who knows? Never saw the guy play.
Ibraheim Campbell - Decent role player. Bring him back.
Jason Spriggs - A failed high pick. Let him go.
Marcedes Lewis - Best blocking Tight End and a team leader. Bring him back.
Geronimo Allison - Need more speed at WR and he regressed this year. Let him go.
Jared Veldheer - Nice backup option. Bring him back.
BJ Goodson. Let him go. Need an upgrade here.
Tramon Williams - Let him go unless he wants to play for significantly less money.

Exclusive Rights Free Agents:

Allen Lazard - A real find. Sign him.
Tyler Lancaster - Probably need an upgrade here. Maybe sign him for minimum.
Robert Tonyan - Worth another look. Sign him.
Chandon Sullivan - Same as Tonyan
Jake Kumerow - Better than Allison. Bring him back.

Some guys who are not Free Agents:

Jimmy Graham - Not worth the money. Save 8 million by cutting him.
Lane Taylor - Let him go. Save 4.5 million by cutting him.
Aaron Jones - Offense revolves around him. Sign him to extension.
Kenny Clark - Best defensive lineman. Sign him to extension.

Clark, Jones, Lazard, Crosby, and Bulaga if the money/contract is ok. Sullivan, Redmond, and Ervin can be brought back cheap. They probably want Campbell and Veldheer back too.
The rest are replaceable except for Martinez and Fackrell. I could see some team like DET throwing some money at Fackrell (Patricia thinking he can Kyle Van Noy him or get 10.5 sacks from him), and Martinez taking over for Kuechley in CHA for $6M+.
Martinez was pretty emotional after the game, I think he knows there's a good chance he's gone.

Graham is a likely cap casualty, and I'd see what I could get for Taylor in a trade to an AFC team with a bad OL.
I think this year they won't wade very deep into the FA waters. The Smiths + Amos cost them a chunk of change, and extending Clark will be a priority.

[Joemailman]

They restructured Rodgers' contract to give them 11M more salary cap space this year. They didn't need to do that unless they were going to be active in FA. It won't be like last year when they went out and signed 4 starters, but they will be active.

[Patler]

Cutting Turner, while saving the Packers cash, doesn't even clear $1,000,000 in cap space for 2020.

Maybe. I think teams can still designate a couple terminated contracts to be split over two season's caps, like the old pre-/post June release date did if they wanted it to. If that is still the case, Turner's dead money cap hit could be split over '20 and '21 if they want to free up money for 2020.

Long and short of it is that money already paid to the players and that paid in 2020 will hit the caps the next one, two or three seasons one way or another. Going forward with just one of them for just one more season costs less if they keep Taylor and cut Turner than if they keep Turner and cut Taylor. They will have some control over how and when it hits the caps.

[Patler]

There is a lot they can do to free up more cap space in 2020 if they need it, albeit at the expense of cap space in future years. Smth I, Smith II and Amos have nearly $20M in roster bonuses due this year. Guaranteeing some portion of that will allow it to be split over the remaining contract years.

Cap space shouldn't be an issue.

(Cutting Rodgers won't generate immediate cap space this year, but next year it will! :-) )

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't cut either Taylor or Turner until they figure out who the right tackle is going to be. Bulaga did a nice job gimping his way through the season without any horrific injury. If I was him I would retire, his body is significantly damaged. As fans we aren't supposed to feel this way about players, but I sincerely hope he thinks long and hard about hanging it up. Either way the Packers have squeezed just about all the juice out of Bulaga as possible, and need to move on. He isn't worth a long term deal or the headaches of counting on him as the starting right tackle.

Lewis shouldn't be too expensive, and would piece well with Tonyan and Sternberger.

Allison should not be resigned for more than the expectation that he is fighting for a roster spot in fall camp. There are better and more dynamic players already on the Packers roster.

When I clicked on this thread I thought it was going to be who the Packers should go after in free agency, not who they should resign.

Packer Needs
2020 Free Agency

WR: Adams is as legit of a #1 guy than any other receiver in the league, but the Packers at this point lack a true number 2 receiver. I like what they have in Lazard and he has the ability to push to be a number 2, but he in all reality is a number 3 guy. Packers have to look hard at finding a veteran or attack the draft looking to find talent that can push for starters reps.
Break the Bank Option:
1. Amari Cooper WR Dallas: Not sure about the fit in Green Bay, I honestly think he is a bit of an under achiever, but he is young and as the top free agent on the market he will command a big contract
2. Robby Anderson WR NYJ - Not entirely a Break the Bank option but teams might pursue him for more than he is worth due to his age, and early production.
One and Done options
1. AJ Green WR Cincinnati - Probably a one or two year deal, front loaded
2. Emmanuel Sanders WR San Fran - Packers probably should have pursued him a little bit harder last year
3. Demeryius Thomas WR NYJ - Not a legitimate #2 receiver in this league. I don't know why the Packers would pursue him
Possible Gambles
1. Breshad Perriman WR Tampa Bay - He had a pretty darn good December catching 25 balls for around 500 yards. He is a younger guy that has under performed for a first round draft pick. 2019 was a his best season.

DL
The Packers were exposed this season in the run game ranking in the bottom half of the league. Obviously the Packers decided to build a team around stopping the pass with adding pass rushers and attacking the secondary in the draft. The 49ers utterly exposed them in the NFC Championship. The Packer have a great player in Kenny Clark but need two more run stuffers to complete their 3-4 front. The Packers cut Daniels is in the off season and didn't exactly replace him with a proven player. They can't count on Adams to take the next step and Keke doesn't have the resume to demonstrate that he was a hidden gem of the 2019 draft. Lancaster and Lowry are just bodies.
Break the Bank
1. Chris Jones DE KC - Packers probably can't afford him, he would be a franchise cornerstone, but they have so much already invested in their front seven.
2. Leonard Williams DE NYG - His numbers are not eye popping, but his overall size and athleticism would make an intriguing signing for the Packers.
3. DJ Reader DE/NT Houston - That boy is THICK. He could be the block eater that the Packers need
4. Javon Hargrave NT Pittsburgh - Active on the Defensive line, more of a gap shooter than a block eater, could pair well in the Packers Nickel scheme with Kenny Clark.
Mid Tier Value
1. Shelby Harris DE Denver - Milwaukee kid that made it in the league as a 7th round pick. He had 6 sacks in 2019 but 5 of them came in two games.
2. Gerald McCoy DT Carolina - At 31 the guy is still active and talented. He would be a guy that would fit well in the Nickel scheme. He might not be the best fit as a run stuffer, but a very quality player and teammate.
3. Micheal Brockers DE Rams - Big framed defensive end that has played next to the best defensive player over the last 5 years. Sort of a down year for him in 2019.
4. Derek Wolfe DE Denver - Gritty defensive end that has more sacks than anyone on the list.
5. Micheal Pierce DT Baltimore - Squatty nose tackle
6. Andrew Billings DT Cincinnati - Very young, just finished his 3rd season and will be 24 in 2020. Because of age he might have the most potential.
7. Quinton Jefferson DE Seattle - 3 tech DT in Seattle but would be playing End in the Packers base 3-4.

ILB
Packers have their own free agent in Blake Martinez. Martinez is a viable candidate to come back to the Packers for the right price. He is a student of the game, but his overall athleticism gets exposed at times, especially when he needs to cover backs. He was also exposed in the heavy run scheme of the 49ers. If he does come back he needs a running mate.
Free Agency Options
1. Cory Littleton LB Rams - signed as a rookie free agent 4 seasons ago. smaller framed guy that has to be protected by the guys up front. We was restricted free agent last year that the Rams protected with a second round tag, and signed him for 3 million dollars to a one year deal.
2. Joe Schobert LB Browns - Wisconsin kid that has a similar game to Blake Martinez, although Shobert has more athleticism to offer the position.
3. Danny Trevathan LB Chicago - Packers should have signed him 4 years ago. No he might be past his prime.

OT
Packers should move on from Bulaga as previous stated. Currently the Packers have no viable options to replace him. This a very short list as there isn't many options considering age.
Expensive
1. Jack Conklin OT Tennessee- He probably fits in well with the base principles of Lafluer's offense as he was the offensive coach in 2018 for Tennessee.
2. Anthony Castanzo OT Indianapolis- he is 32 and has missed parts of seasons due to leg injuries. He could be seen as a hold over until a younger player could make progress. Castanzo has played mostly left tackle in his career so he might be the right fit.

[Tony Oday]

Need two ILBs, 2 run stuffing D Linemen, #2 and #3 WR, not really a huge list.

Imagine this offense but add AJ Green!

[bobblehead]

Bryan Bulaga
Tramon Williams
Mason Crosby
Jared Veldheer
Geronimo Allison
Marcedes Lewis
Jason Spriggs
Ryan Grant
Blake Martinez
Kyler Fackrell
B.J. Goodson
Ibraheim Campbel
Tyler Ervin

Word is, if we cut Graham and Taylor we're 44M beneith the cap. What do we do with it? Who do we keep?
You have to keep Bulaga. I'd keep Fackrell if its reasonable. Doesn't have to be dirt cheap, just reasonable. Someone will overpay Blake. No one else on that list is important. You use the money to pay for Hunter Henry or Austin Hooper. Maybe Emanual Sanders to be the slot. I would beef up the DL if anyone is available. I think the defense is a large man away from being good. After this season I am where I was with Favre in 2008. I don't think ARod is worth his salary and headache anymore. I would move on for draft capital if possible. Many teams have won with game managers, but none win with game managers making 30 million. Bring in guys who have won with talented rosters. Blake Bortles, Tannehill now. I'm sure andy dalton will be available. Won't happen, but should.

[Joemailman]

You have to keep Bulaga. I'd keep Fackrell if its reasonable. Doesn't have to be dirt cheap, just reasonable. Someone will overpay Blake. No one else on that list is important. You use the money to pay for Hunter Henry or Austin Hooper. Maybe Emanual Sanders to be the slot. I would beef up the DL if anyone is available. I think the defense is a large man away from being good. After this season I am where I was with Favre in 2008. I don't think ARod is worth his salary and headache anymore. I would move on for draft capital if possible. Many teams have won with game managers, but none win with game managers making 30 million. Bring in guys who have won with talented rosters. Blake Bortles, Tannehill now. I'm sure andy dalton will be available. Won't happen, but should.

Rodgers would have a cap hit of 50 million if they traded him right now. Rodgers cap hit next year is only 21 million. They will have some money this year to fill some more holes in free agency. Winning it next year might be their best chance before Rodgers' cap hit jumps to the mid 30's in 2021.

[Tony Oday]

AR is a packer for life.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

AR is a packer for life.

That's what I thought about Favre. I just hope approach this the same way, its a business, you do what is best for the team's chances of winning the big one.

[pbmax]

Clearly PackerRats are not ready for the offseason.

We cannot even agree on what to do with Bulaga.

[texaspackerbacker]

There's a lot on that list not worth keeping, but at least a few who are. As some said, being active in free agency from other teams again is a good idea.

First of all, four of the five Exclusive Rights Free Agents: Lazard, Tonyan, Sullivan, and Kumerow, should be kept. Lancaster, hell no.

As for the list:

I think for the same or less money, we can do better than Crosby. It seems to me, 2/3 or more teams have better kickers.
I don't have a very high an opinion of Ervin. There ought to be several dozen draftable players who are faster and better. He only seems good compared to the crap we had before him.
Bulaga played surprisingly well and hopefully we keep him, but not for very much money. He also only seems good compared to mediocrity around him, not to mention the health thing.
Fackrell has always been better than a lot of people give him credit for. Hopefully nobody else sees him that way and pays him accordingly.
Vitale could be better replaced by a TE. Forget him.
Lewis, keep him if he is cheap.
Redmond, yeah, if dirt cheap, keep him.
Allison, the roster spot could be better used - much better.
Grant and Goodson, a couple of nothings - lose them.
Veldheer did good, but I suspect he is an injury time bomb. Maybe keep him if the doctors say he's good for a whole season.
Tramon did good. I hope they can keep him money-wise.

Martinez: I could be wrong, but I see him as a high quality player. We should only fail to sign him if we can sign somebody even better from another team.

I wish they could make a deal to restructure Graham - he still was the best TE we had, but not worth what he was and would be paid. I doubt that will happen, though. Whether it's a FA or a draft pick, it sure would be nice to find a good one.

Lane Taylor or Billy Turner? Can we just lose them both?

Yes, extend Clark; Maybe wait a while and see if Jones continues to be good before extending him for too much.

[ThunderDan]

I think for the same or less money, we can do better than Crosby. It seems to me, 2/3 or more teams have better kickers.

This is what I love about you. Absolutely no basis in fact or taking any time to look at what actually happened during the season before making a stupid blanket statement.

Crosby missed 3 kicks all year. Two FGs and one extra point. If you don't count Cody Parkey who only attempted 3 FGs for the year Crosby ranked 6th in the league at 92%.

[texaspackerbacker]

Take yesterday, for example, would we even have attempted that 54 yard kick Gould made? And he's old too. Crosby had a good year within the limitations of his leg strength. I say again, for a lot less money, I'm pretty sure we could find somebody as good or better. Game after game, it seems like he is the second best kicker on the field.

[Joemailman]

Take yesterday, for example, would we even have attempted that 54 yard kick Gould made? And he's old too. Crosby had a good year within the limitations of his leg strength. I say again, for a lot less money, I'm pretty sure we could find somebody as good or better. Game after game, it seems like he is the second best kicker on the field.

Really? Game by game which kickers the Packers faced are better than Crosby? Provide some information or admit you're just making this shit up.

[Patler]

Take yesterday, for example, would we even have attempted that 54 yard kick Gould made? And he's old too. Crosby had a good year within the limitations of his leg strength. I say again, for a lot less money, I'm pretty sure we could find somebody as good or better. Game after game, it seems like he is the second best kicker on the field.

Maybe it seemed that way, but he wasn't.

Crosby - 22 of 24
Opponents - 27 of 32.

Same fields, same conditions, same days. Crosby 91.67%. Opponents 84.38%

[ThunderDan]

Crosby had his best year kicking percentagewise and in kickoff distance of his career.

[Deputy Nutz]

We are seriously talking about the kicker?

[Patler]

We are seriously talking about the kicker?

Actually, I would like to discuss the longsnapper. Bradley needs to be replaced. He was just as inconsistent this year as last. Again, not horrible, but not deadly accurate either. Scott saved his bacon several times on both placekicks and punts.

[texaspackerbacker]

I said "it seems", and I included salary in the equation. One who really stands out, though, is Matt Prater. Also Dan Bailey. Butker of K.C. for sure, and maybe Badgely of S.D., Hopkins of Washington, Slye of Carolina, Elliott of Philly, to name a few. Prater makes almost as much as Crosby. I'm pretty sure most of the rest make a lot less money than Crosby.

[mraynrand]

Clearly PackerRats are not ready for the offseason.

We cannot even agree on what to do with Bulaga.

put him on IR. That's my stock answer.

[ThunderDan]

I said "it seems", and I included salary in the equation. One who really stands out, though, is Matt Prater. Also Dan Bailey. Butker of K.C. for sure, and maybe Badgely of S.D., Hopkins of Washington, Slye of Carolina, Elliott of Philly, to name a few. Prater makes almost as much as Crosby. I'm pretty sure most of the rest make a lot less money than Crosby.

Just so you know actual facts:
Prater - 84%
Bailey - 93%
Butker - 90%
Badgley - 81%
Hopkins - 83%
Slye - 78%
Elliott - 85%

[pbmax]

Actually, I would like to discuss the longsnapper. Bradley needs to be replaced. He was just as inconsistent this year as last. Again, not horrible, but not deadly accurate either. Scott saved his bacon several times on both placekicks and punts.

I did not see a bad snap yesterday, but was that the cause of the bad punt?

[pbmax]

put him on IR. That's my stock answer.

Bulaga is the pitcher that the baseball team puts on 14 day IR. Retroactive to 9 days ago.

[Gotarace]

I would like to see the Packers make a run for Nick Kwiatkoski ILB from the bears...Kid played lights out when stepping in for R.Smith when he was injured and would hurt the Bears while getting us some inside linebacker help.

[Joemailman]

I would like to see the Packers make a run for Nick Kwiatkoski ILB from the bears...Kid played lights out when stepping in for R.Smith when he was injured and would hurt the Bears while getting us some inside linebacker help.

Kwiatkowski and Danny Trevathan are both UFA's for the Bears. Probably can't sign both. My guess they will prioritize Kwiatkowski who is younger and less injury prone. Would be a nice guy to get though.

[MadtownPacker]

I don’t give a fuck what any of you say. Sign Antonio Brown. Rodgers can handle him.

[Teamcheez1]

How much are the Pack willing to pay to keep Bulaga and Martinez?

Bulaga did well this year, but his age and injuries may rear their head next year.
Martinez is dependable, but nothing flashy.

Are you willing to pay $8M+ to each player, or will they take a discount?

[Gotarace]

I don’t give a fuck what any of you say. Sign Antonio Brown. Rodgers can handle him.
Lol Your Hommie took up a rapping career...No Antonio For You...
https://www.tmz.com/2020/01/18/antonio-brown-rap-first-show-concert-throws-money/

[texaspackerbacker]

Bulaga better be a lot cheaper than that. Martinez might be more expensive. I could see signing A. Brown if we get the word he ain't gonna be suspended. That's more sure than drafting somebody that may or may not pan out.

[Joemailman]

Brown is a complete nut case at this point. Maybe due to playing too much football. Drew Rosenhaus just cut ties with him. Sign A.J. Green if you want to spend big bucks on a big name WR.

[mraynrand]

Brown is a complete nut case at this point. Maybe due to playing too much football. Drew Rosenhaus just cut ties with him. Sign A.J. Green if you want to spend big bucks on a big name WR.

That's funny because OBJ is the same, except he plays too little football.

[run pMc]

We are seriously talking about the kicker?

Crosby is worth keeping IMO at the right price. Teams were desperate for finding serviceable kickers. Sam Ficken (GB camp body) ended up kicking for the Jets, last year MIN cut their rookie draft pick kicker in week 2 to sign journeyman Dan Bailey off the couch... and do we need to talk about the Bears kickers?

[pbmax]

Crosby is worth keeping IMO at the right price. Teams were desperate for finding serviceable kickers. Sam Ficken (GB camp body) ended up kicking for the Jets, last year MIN cut their rookie draft pick kicker in week 2 to sign journeyman Dan Bailey off the couch... and do we need to talk about the Bears kickers?

You are begging the question: what is the right price?



Player Team Age Total Value Avg./Year Total G'teed Fully G'teed FA
Justin Tucker Ravens 31 $20,000,000 $5,000,000 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 '24 UFA
Robbie Gould 49ers 38 $19,000,000 $4,750,000 $10,500,000 $10,500,000 '23 UFA
Graham Gano Panther 33 $17,000,000 $4,250,000 $9,000,000 $8,000,000 '22 UFA
S Gostkowski Patriot 36 $8,500,000 $4,250,000 $3,700,000 $3,700,000 '21 UFA
Chris Boswell Steeler 29 $16,806,000 $4,201,500 $7,295,000 $7,295,000 '23 UFA
Harrison Butker Chiefs 25 $20,275,000 $4,055,000 $9,100,000 $6,490,000 '25 UFA
Wil Lutz Saints 26 $20,250,000 $4,050,000 $9,200,000 $9,200,000 '24 UFA
Mason Crosby Packers 36 $16,100,000 $4,025,000 $5,000,000 $5,000,000 '20 UFA
Ryan Succop Titans 34 $20,000,000 $4,000,000 $7,500,000 $7,500,000 '23 UFA
Adam Vinatieri Colts 48 $3,875,000 $3,875,000 $2,000,000 $2,000,000 '20 UFA

[Tony Oday]

I would rather spend $1 million too much on a kicker than not enough.

[call_me_ishmael]

Meh, I feel like a rookie free agent would do just fine and hit 80% of the kicks. If you save 4-5M doing that, that feels like a win to me.

[Zool]

Until he misses 2 game winning kicks against the Lions and the Packers end up 11-5 getting swept by the Lions.

[Gotarace]

Meh, I feel like a rookie free agent would do just fine and hit 80% of the kicks. If you save 4-5M doing that, that feels like a win to me.
Sometimes you have to save a buck where you can...with Aaron eating up so much of the cap you have to get creative and frugal at other positions.

[pbmax]

Going cheap on the kicker is not the way to do this. Not if the window is now.

Rodgers and Crosby have really spoiled Packer fans. Which is remarkable at this late stage, because each has been terrible for a year in recent memory.

My fantasy GM really recommends Lutz or Gould, but they don't look like options in the Reality Football League.

[texaspackerbacker]

I disagree with that. Bringing in 3 or 4 decent strong-legged college kickers as UDFAs, and keeping the best and maybe another on the practice squad should get us at least as good a kicker as Crosby has been over the last 2 or 3 seasons, and with a fair amount of extra cap space to use elsewhere.

There's well over a hundred college teams, each with a kicker. Probably about 1/4 of those graduate each year. It shouldn't be that hard to find a few good ones.

[run pMc]

There's well over a hundred college teams, each with a kicker. Probably about 1/4 of those graduate each year. It shouldn't be that hard to find a few good ones.
And yet teams hang onto Goulds, Gostkowskis, and Crosbys of the world for a reason... when you need to hit a 47 yard FG with :03 on the clock in December winds on Lambeau field, you don't want some UDFA rookie kicker from Central Florida Tech kicking it. Most don't have the leg combined with the accuracy, to say nothing of the mental fortitude. Say, what's Blair Walsh doing these days? The Colts are probably finally done with Vinatieri, who at age 47 missed some key kicks and went 17-25 on FGs.

You can get away with paying less for your backups and even on a punter, but once you find a NFL quality kicker you keep them. 7/10 in pb's list above are over 30...GMs would happily replace them with a cheaper player if they thought they had one (and will bring in camp bodies to find out).
If Gute can sign Mason for 2 more years at 4.5M/yr that would be good value IMO.

[pbmax]

I disagree with that. Bringing in 3 or 4 decent strong-legged college kickers as UDFAs, and keeping the best and maybe another on the practice squad should get us at least as good a kicker as Crosby has been over the last 2 or 3 seasons, and with a fair amount of extra cap space to use elsewhere.

There's well over a hundred college teams, each with a kicker. Probably about 1/4 of those graduate each year. It shouldn't be that hard to find a few good ones.

Rookie kickers are terrible normally.

[Freak Out]

Crosby can stay. He's pretty damn good. Plus the Bears would grab him in a heartbeat.

[RashanGary]

Sign DJ Reader NT
Draft fast ILB with 1st pick
Resign Martinez to average deal as second ILB


Clark and Reader would be a great one two inside. A little more speed behind them and Lowry/Lancaster/Adams as just rotation players instead of starters

[RashanGary]

What about letting Martinez go and bringing in the Vikings Anthony Harris to play safety and making Amos an every down ILB. 6'1 220. Just

[Joemailman]

Some pretty good DT's who are set to become UFA's. Of course, some will likely be signed by current teams before free agency begins.

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2020DT.php



Chris Jones, DT, Chiefs. Age: 26.
Aside from Aaron Donald, Chris Jones is the best defensive tackle in the NFL. Jones can single-handedly dominate the trenches. He stuffs the run and puts heavy pressure on opposing quarterbacks. He's also just 26 as of July, so his best years are probably still ahead of him.

D.J. Reader, NT, Texans. Age: 26.
D.J. Reader is one of the top nose tackles in the NFL. He's a monster when it comes to stuffing the run, and he's also pretty decent at applying pressure on the quarterback. He won't be 27 until the 2021 offseason, so the sky is the limit for him.




Leonard Williams, DE/DT, Giants. Age: 26.
Leonard Williams failed to log a single sack in 2019, but that's not indicative of how well he played. Williams was a force in the trenches, as both a pass rusher and a run stuffer.

Javon Hargrave, NT, Steelers. Age: 27.
Javon Hargrave is a monster nose tackle. He stuffs the run and gets decent pressure on the quarterback. He's still young, so he could improve his game even more.

Arik Armstead, DE/DT, 49ers. Age: 26.
Arik Armstead didn't live up to his first-round billing for four years, but he was excellent this past season. He's a late bloomer, but there's also a chance that Armstead was simply playing for a new contract.




Michael Pierce, NT, Ravens. Age: 27.
Michael Pierce is a massive run plugger. He's coming off a bit of a down year because he was dealing with an ankle injury. He should bounce back with a strong 2020 campaign.

Michael Brockers, DT, Rams. Age: 29.
Michael Brockers is a monstrous force against the run, and he can get to the quarterback on occasion. He'll turn 30 in December.

Quinton Jefferson, DT, Seahawks. Age: 27.
Quinton Jefferson was one of the biggest surprises for the Seahawks this past season. He emerged as a potent force in the interior of the trenches, stuffing the run well and generating some pressure on opposing quarterbacks.




Ndamukong Suh, DT, Buccaneers. Age: 33.
Ndamukong Suh is no longer a dominant interior pass-rushing presence, but he's terrific at stopping the run. He was one of the reasons why Tampa was elite against ground attacks in 2019.

Timmy Jernigan, DT, Eagles. Age: 27.
Timmy Jernigan is an impactful defensive interior presence when he's on the field, but he has a very checkered injury history.

Andrew Billings, DT, Bengals. Age: 25.
Andrew Billings has been a stout nose tackle for the Bengals over the past couple of years. He's only 25, so he still has plenty of room for growth.





Christian Covington, DE/DT, Cowboys. Age: 26.
Christian Covington is one of the top run-stuffing defensive linemen in the NFL. His pass-rushing skills need work, but he's still 26, so he has plenty of time to develop moves to get to the quarterback.

Shelby Harris, DT, Broncos. Age: 29.
Shelby Harris has always played the run well, but he improved his pass-rushing ability this past season. He logged six sacks in 2019.

Mike Daniels, DE/DT, Lions. Age: 31.
Mike Daniels was once one of the top 3-4 defensive ends in the NFL, but he had an injury-ravaged 2019 campaign after the Packers released him last offseason. He turns 31 this offseason and should continue to decline.





rris (RFA), DE/DT, Bears. Age: 27.
Roy Robertson-Harris was a strong presence on Chicago's defensive line this past season. He doesn't have much experience, so he should continue to improve.

Xavier Williams, DT, Chiefs. Age: 28.
Xavier Williams is normally a stud run-stuffer, but he struggled in 2019 because he labored through an ankle injury.




Johnathan Hankins, NT, Raiders. Age: 28.
Johnathan Hankins' pass-rushing ability has declined in recent years, but he's still a monstrous run stuffer.

Tyeler Davison, DT, Falcons. Age: 27.
Tyeler Davison is a solid run-plugger, but doesn't offer much as far as pass-rushing ability is concerned.

[Joemailman]

A few interesting ILB's.



Cory Littleton, LB, Rams. Age: 26.
Cory Littleton has transformed from a special-teams standout to a stellar linebacker. Littleton is spectacular in coverage and holds up well against the run.

Joe Schobert, LB, Browns. Age: 26.
Joe Schobert played very well at times last year, even winning AFC Defensive Player of the Week at one point. He's a do-it-all linebacker who won't turn 27 until November.




Blake Martinez, LB, Packers. Age: 26.
Blake Martinez is an excellent coverage linebacker. He struggled in run support last year, but he's still very young and can improve in that regard.

Nick Kwiatkoski, LB, Bears. Age: 27.
Danny Trevathan got hurt during the season, but it didn't matter very much because Nick Kwiatkoski stepped in and played on a high level. He'll be entering just his fifth year in the league, so there's definitely reason to believe he could continue to improve.

Danny Trevathan, LB, Bears. Age: 30.
Danny Trevathan never looked quite healthy last year, but could that have been a symptom of age? The 30-year-old will need to rebound from a disappointing 2019 campaign.




Kevin Pierre-Louis, LB, Bears. Age: 28.
Kevin Pierre-Louis performed very well when given a chance to start late in the year. Perhaps this will convince someone to give him a chance to start next year.

Kamalei Correa, LB, Titans. Age: 26.
Kamalei Correa is a well-rounded linebacker who can play both outside and inside in 3-4 formations.

Haason Reddick, LB, Cardinals. Age: 25.
Haason Reddick has largely struggled since being chosen in the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft. He was terrible this past season. However, he's still just 25, so there is a glimmer of hope for him.




Nick Vigil, ILB, Bengals. Age: 27.
Nick Vigil is a solid cover linebacker, but he gets bulldozed in run support. He should just be playing in sub packages, but he's pretty good at what he does best.

Vontaze Burfict, LB, Raiders. Age: 29.
Vontaze Burfict is shockingly not even 30 yet, but he has regressed in recent seasons. He was also suspended for a whole year, so that's a problem.

Josh Bynes, LB, Ravens. Age: 31.
Josh Bynes is a solid, two-down linebacker who specializes in run support.





Sean Lee, LB, Cowboys. Age: 34.
Sean Lee's effectiveness has plummeted over the past couple of seasons, thanks to the high number of injuries he has suffered. He can still be a great backup, however.

Wesley Woodyard, LB, Titans. Age: 34.
Wesley Woodyard used to be a terrific linebacker in all facets. He's still stout versus the run, but he's been getting abused in coverage. This is not a surprise, given his age (34 in July).

[RashanGary]

DJ Reader would be perfect next to Clark

[RashanGary]

Burafict is a really good player. Better than Martinez.

[Joemailman]

Burflict is a suspension waiting to happen. No thanks. I'd rather have Kwiatkowski.

[call_me_ishmael]

Suh would be a huge upgrade over Lancaster. He's perfect for that end spot. Leonard Williams will be cheap and I'd say he's worth a looksie.

ILB I prefer they'd look to the draft. Then again, I think it's a very hard position to predict success at. I have no opinion of who they should take there.

[GB-Brandon]

Players to be targeted =

FA Seahawks, DE Quinton Jefferson 3 year 18 million, 6 per or FA Rams DE Michael Brockers 2 year 16 mill, 8 mill per

FA Rams, ILB Cory Littleton , 4 year 50 million, 12.5 mill per

FA Bengals, WR AJ Green, 2 year 18 mill, 9 mill per

Key Resigns- Bulaga, Crosby, M. Lewis

Key cuts -Graham, Lane Taylor

Extend-Kenny Clark

Round 1 -WR Jalen Reagor TCU

https://youtu.be/gubmQmwqjIA

Round 2-ILB Jordan Brooks Texas Tech

https://youtu.be/7_vcSX6fxx4

Round 3-best OL on board

Round 4-WR Quintez Cephus, Wisconsin

https://youtu.be/kjl_Q1kR0qM

Round 5-7, Fill in depth.

That’s what is needed. Not sure if I posted it in right place.

Plenty of SPEED!!!

[Sparkey]

Blake Martinez, LB, Packers. Age: 26.
Blake Martinez is an excellent coverage linebacker.

Did they write that after watching him cover Marcedes Lewis in practice ?

Martinez is everything that is wrong with the team. A step slow, terrible in zone coverage, unable to cover in man coverage and just not good sideline to sideline.

Honestly, if he is starting next year, the defense in the middle of the field will be as bad as it always is.

[Rutnstrut]

Those of you that think decent kickers are a dime a dozen must not watch much football. This sounds a lot like everyone thinking it would be a snap to find a good center when TT was letting good ones walk.

[call_me_ishmael]

Those of you that think decent kickers are a dime a dozen must not watch much football. This sounds a lot like everyone thinking it would be a snap to find a good center when TT was letting good ones walk.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=KICKING&opp=0&sort=4&qualified=1&sortOrder=0

The stats don't lie. Let's say the difference between good and bad is 20% or ~4 field goals. How many of those are in close enough games to matter? I am not at all sold on the idea of paying a kicker or a punter big bucks.

Only 5 kickers hit 90% or better last year, but 22 hit 80% or better. If the difference is having Lane Taylor as a back-up guard vs some UNFA or a premium kicker, I'm taking the guard all day personally.

[pbmax]

I wonder about Walter Football's analyst after I read this:


Blake Martinez, LB, Packers. Age: 26.
Blake Martinez is an excellent coverage linebacker. He struggled in run support last year, but he's still very young and can improve in that regard.

In some ways, complaining about ILBs in a passing league is a given. They can be abused with matchups. Same with safeties.

The few who can do both are rare and highly coveted. Martinez, to me, seems capable but limited. I thought he got better this year at filling and working downhill but he and his teammates missed a few. If your D line is good, and the Packers at times was not, Martinez can help but won't be dominant against the run.

In coverage, he simply doesn't have the speed to cover a crosser against a back man to man. Its not terrible speed, but its not enough. I did think he was one of the better players in zone. He wasn't bad at dropping and then coming up and tackling a check down. Though he's not the best open field tackler either.

If your Defense needs to go all in on the D line according to scheme, Martinez might be your guy. If you need him to dominate, not so much.

[pbmax]

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=KICKING&opp=0&sort=4&qualified=1&sortOrder=0

The stats don't lie. Let's say the difference between good and bad is 20% or ~4 field goals. How many of those are in close enough games to matter? I am not at all sold on the idea of paying a kicker or a punter big bucks.

Only 5 kickers hit 90% or better last year, but 22 hit 80% or better. If the difference is having Lane Taylor as a back-up guard vs some UNFA or a premium kicker, I'm taking the guard all day personally.

That's 5-6 misses if you attempts are between 25 and 30, which most kickers get.

The problem with assessing kickers because they ONLY miss 5-6 more than counterparts is that you can't control when the misses happen. Might cost you winning versus the spread against the Lions one year. Might cost you a Divisional Round playoff game versus Dallas the next.

They already were paying Crosby Top 10 money, I have no problem with them doing it again with a pay as you go deal.

He isn't Justin Tucker, but he might be Gould.

[mraynrand]

I wonder about Walter Football's analyst after I read this:



In some ways, complaining about ILBs in a passing league is a given. They can be abused with matchups. Same with safeties.

The few who can do both are rare and highly coveted. Martinez, to me, seems capable but limited. I thought he got better this year at filling and working downhill but he and his teammates missed a few. If your D line is good, and the Packers at times was not, Martinez can help but won't be dominant against the run.

In coverage, he simply doesn't have the speed to cover a crosser against a back man to man. Its not terrible speed, but its not enough. I did think he was one of the better players in zone. He wasn't bad at dropping and then coming up and tackling a check down. Though he's not the best open field tackler either.

If your Defense needs to go all in on the D line according to scheme, Martinez might be your guy. If you need him to dominate, not so much.

That's why they took a flier on Burks, hoping he'd develop into a Shazier. You need the physical (and mental) freak who will tackle like an inside linebacker, but can run with WRs (or at least the speediest RBs and TEs). If you cheat with a safety, you get destroyed in the run game; put in an average speed LB, they pass you to death.

As an aside, the Packers are in a similar sit. as the Cowboys/SF of the early 90's - they may be looking at a way to win a game against the one team they can't get past. The trick is to do it without overreacting so you don't destroy your team balance. The most effective way is probably what both Dallas and SF ended up doing - steal/buy your opponents' best player....

[Deputy Nutz]

That's why they took a flier on Burks, hoping he'd develop into a Shazier. You need the physical (and mental) freak who will tackle like an inside linebacker, but can run with WRs (or at least the speediest RBs and TEs). If you cheat with a safety, you get destroyed in the run game; put in an average speed LB, they pass you to death.

As an aside, the Packers are in a similar sit. as the Cowboys/SF of the early 90's - they may be looking at a way to win a game against the one team they can't get past. The trick is to do it without overreacting so you don't destroy your team balance. The most effective way is probably what both Dallas and SF ended up doing - steal/buy your opponents' best player....

Shazier was a first round pick if I am remembering right, Oren Burks wasn't even on the radar when the Packers moved up in the 3rd round to draft him. If you want a dynamic player in the middle of the field you have to draft them in the first or second round. If the Packers want a linebacker to stay on the field for all three downs they need to invest and not take flyers on guys at the end of the draft. I also think that the Packers had really high hopes that Josh Jones was going to work out as a hybrid nickel and dime linebacker and that guy flaked himself out of the league.

As far as free agency goes, there are not many options that are going to offer more quality than Martinez. The Packers can find a cheaper option, but they will have to really consider addressing the MLB spot in the first couple rounds of the draft. The more I start to dig there is probably one maybe two guys that have a 1st round grade at the position, but you never really know until after the combine.

[Smidgeon]

Players to be targeted =

FA Seahawks, DE Quinton Jefferson 3 year 18 million, 6 per or FA Rams DE Michael Brockers 2 year 16 mill, 8 mill per

FA Rams, ILB Cory Littleton , 4 year 50 million, 12.5 mill per

FA Bengals, WR AJ Green, 2 year 18 mill, 9 mill per

Key Resigns- Bulaga, Crosby, M. Lewis

Key cuts -Graham, Lane Taylor

Extend-Kenny Clark

Round 1 -WR Jalen Reagor TCU

https://youtu.be/gubmQmwqjIA

Round 2-ILB Jordan Brooks Texas Tech

https://youtu.be/7_vcSX6fxx4

Round 3-best OL on board

Round 4-WR Quintez Cephus, Wisconsin

https://youtu.be/kjl_Q1kR0qM

Round 5-7, Fill in depth.

That’s what is needed. Not sure if I posted it in right place.

Plenty of SPEED!!!

Well, hello there.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnselfishAliveAmazondolphin-size_restricted.gif

[pbmax]

That's why they took a flier on Burks, hoping he'd develop into a Shazier. You need the physical (and mental) freak who will tackle like an inside linebacker, but can run with WRs (or at least the speediest RBs and TEs). If you cheat with a safety, you get destroyed in the run game; put in an average speed LB, they pass you to death.

As an aside, the Packers are in a similar sit. as the Cowboys/SF of the early 90's - they may be looking at a way to win a game against the one team they can't get past. The trick is to do it without overreacting so you don't destroy your team balance. The most effective way is probably what both Dallas and SF ended up doing - steal/buy your opponents' best player....


Shazier was a first round pick if I am remembering right, Oren Burks wasn't even on the radar when the Packers moved up in the 3rd round to draft him. If you want a dynamic player in the middle of the field you have to draft them in the first or second round. If the Packers want a linebacker to stay on the field for all three downs they need to invest and not take flyers on guys at the end of the draft. I also think that the Packers had really high hopes that Josh Jones was going to work out as a hybrid nickel and dime linebacker and that guy flaked himself out of the league.

As far as free agency goes, there are not many options that are going to offer more quality than Martinez. The Packers can find a cheaper option, but they will have to really consider addressing the MLB spot in the first couple rounds of the draft. The more I start to dig there is probably one maybe two guys that have a 1st round grade at the position, but you never really know until after the combine.

Agree on all fronts. Burks was a flier for athletic freakishness, but in the 3rd round plus a trade up was WAY too high a price. A flyer should cost the pick alone, I suspect.

FA might be the best route to solve the 49er/Cowboy of the 90s dilemma on defense. I thought Brandon Chillar actually did some good things in the time he was here and not hurt. But there is no guarantee that guy is out there.

You can go 2nd round for a WR or 4th for a swing OL, but a stud DL or 3 down ILB will need to be earlier.

[pbmax]

Hello Brandon, and welcome. Thanks for doing the work PLUS the vids. Appreciated.



Players to be targeted =

FA Seahawks, DE Quinton Jefferson 3 year 18 million, 6 per or FA Rams DE Michael Brockers 2 year 16 mill, 8 mill per

FA Rams, ILB Cory Littleton , 4 year 50 million, 12.5 mill per

FA Bengals, WR AJ Green, 2 year 18 mill, 9 mill per

Key Resigns- Bulaga, Crosby, M. Lewis

Key cuts -Graham, Lane Taylor

Extend-Kenny Clark

Round 1 -WR Jalen Reagor TCU

https://youtu.be/gubmQmwqjIA

Round 2-ILB Jordan Brooks Texas Tech

https://youtu.be/7_vcSX6fxx4

Round 3-best OL on board

Round 4-WR Quintez Cephus, Wisconsin

https://youtu.be/kjl_Q1kR0qM

Round 5-7, Fill in depth.

That’s what is needed. Not sure if I posted it in right place.

Plenty of SPEED!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I had been saying go D Line in the first round, but after reading about Chris Jones, Reader, and several other outstanding D Lineman that are free agents, I'm thinking/hoping Gutekunst will go that route and draft something else in the first round, I wouldn't rule out getting another Corner, as King isn't good enough and Alexander seemed to regress from his rookie year.

I still say, most of the negativity about Martinez is unjustified. For most of the season, he did a good job stopping the run, and the poor gap discipline in the SF game may have somehow been on the coaches. I wish the Packers would use more zone pass coverage. I doubt there was a big enough sample to say Martinez was poor in that, and as somebody said, expecting an ILB cover speedy skill position players is a lot to ask. In addition, Martinez was basically one guy doing the job of two ILBs in the scheme most of the time. The only way we should lose him is if we can get a FA who is better, and most of those mentioned IMO are not better.

[run pMc]

Agree on all fronts. Burks was a flier for athletic freakishness, but in the 3rd round plus a trade up was WAY too high a price. A flyer should cost the pick alone, I suspect.

FA might be the best route to solve the 49er/Cowboy of the 90s dilemma on defense. I thought Brandon Chillar actually did some good things in the time he was here and not hurt. But there is no guarantee that guy is out there.

You can go 2nd round for a WR or 4th for a swing OL, but a stud DL or 3 down ILB will need to be earlier.

Chillar was a bit underrated. As for Burks, IIRC he had one season at LB after being a S. I had high hopes for him, but he didn't get many snaps on D. He did become a core ST guy, so there's that, but... a R3+ is pricey for that. I agree that a flier should cost the pick alone. Giving up picks to move up for a specific pet project can really backfire, as the Spriggs pick haunted for years.

Martinez isn't a bad player - smart, available, he was Hawk 2.0 at the right price (maybe even better), but some team is going to overpay for him and I'd rather it not be GB. A true 3 down ILB would be great find, but is probably a 1st rounder. Some think ILB is traditionally a low value position, but the way offenses attack now I wonder. What about signing Kwiatkowski to replace Martinez and drafting a S-LB tweener like Kyle Duggar to play the other LB? I'm not sure if Ty Summers is ready (or any good). There's the possibility they go with same solution of a vet minimum run stuffer and then a big safety at the other spot...Campbell will be a full year removed from his ACL and Greene will be back too.

It seemed like the run fits were off at times in the NFCC -- like they didn't know which gaps to plug, or maybe they were panicking and playing hero-ball by gambling/cheating into a gap. That the most base 3-4 they've played in a game all year, leaving better coaching and execution wanting.
I wouldn't be shocked if MLF has Pettine emphasize run defense more in camp.

[GB-Brandon]

According to PFF and the “eye test” Martinez clearly isn’t the guy for us in this scheme that Pettine wants to run and since Pettine is coming back(which I hate) we definitely need an upgrade. This is not to take anything away from Martinez as he is a good football player but he is clearly in over his head in what he is asked to do. Ultimately, the death blow for Martinez will be the salary he will most likely command heading into free agency. With that said the current scheme we run needs more speed and explosion with the ability to cover from that position and ability to get sideline to sideline. Isiah Simmons(Clemson) would be the perfect scheme fit but we’re not gonna have a shot at him in the draft.

The Niners clearly showed us who “The New Sheriff In Town” is and we are quickly approaching the end of our window so beggars can’t be choosy. Getting Littleton isn’t my favorite move all time by far but the inability too upgrade this position since Desmond Bishop has left us somewhat stranded. We have to go now and there is zero margin for error.

Yes, we need a 3-4 run stopping DE which isn’t the end of the world. There are many affordable options available. If they would of drafted Jeffery Simmons instead of R. Gary we would already have that out of the way. Instead we’re left with a player that nobody really has a clear view of what to do with.

[pbmax]

It seemed like the run fits were off at times in the NFCC -- like they didn't know which gaps to plug, or maybe they were panicking and playing hero-ball by gambling/cheating into a gap. That the most base 3-4 they've played in a game all year, leaving better coaching and execution wanting.
I wouldn't be shocked if MLF has Pettine emphasize run defense more in camp.

That is the question I have for the coaches. La Fleur said he wasn't sure of the intensity level, which could mean anything,

But a lot of players just got blocked or fell down. Not sure intensity explains it.

I almost wish they had lost that game at Lambeau because my head keeps looking for California and scheduling solutions.

[pbmax]

Yes, we need a 3-4 run stopping DE which isn’t the end of the world. There are many affordable options available. If they would of drafted Jeffery Simmons instead of R. Gary we would already have that out of the way. Instead we’re left with a player that nobody really has a clear view of what to do with.

And he is behind two other guys who are committed for 3 years. You can't have enough pass rush, but the solution for a team with a window might not be draft and develop with other front 7 position needs.

Very much like ILB, not sure they are breaking the bank for a new guy, so is it wrong player for scheme? Position coach?

[pbmax]

My one solid cause for optimism is that I don't buy the Packers were lucky all year. They played well at crucial times. I don't buy people figuring the officials. I would buy health of the team.

The 13-3 season seems like a good reason for optimism. But we will know next year. Nagy's first year effect wore off quickly.

[GB-Brandon]

And he is behind two other guys who are committed for 3 years. You can't have enough pass rush, but the solution for a team with a window might not be draft and develop with other front 7 position needs.

Very much like ILB, not sure they are breaking the bank for a new guy, so is it wrong player for scheme? Position coach?

I don’t believe it is a coaching issue in regards to Gary. I believe Gary’s natural position is as a 4-3 defensive end so I never really liked the pick(was actually scratching my head when he was selected). I never thought Gary was gonna excel at “playing in space” in the NFL but of course the jury is still out. I projected him being better with his hand in the dirt. You also have to remember there were production issues with Gary at Michigan. So yes, I believe the ultimate mistake was taking this elite talent to develop with a team conducting in a shorter window.

Nevertheless, massive draft capital was used on him so to not be getting much return early is a disappointment IMO. At some point there gonna have to find a way to get him on the field and probably sooner then later which could mean beefing him up 20lb’s and using him at DE in our defense. The results could equal the next JJ Watt, or hopefully not for us the next Datone Jones. At least what I’m hearing is he won’t need surgery which is a positive.

[pbmax]

I don’t believe it is a coaching issue in regards to Gary. I believe Gary’s natural position is as a 4-3 defensive end so I never really liked the pick(was actually scratching my head when he was selected). I never thought Gary was gonna excel at “playing in space” in the NFL but of course the jury is still out. I projected him being better with his hand in the dirt. You also have to remember there were production issues with Gary at Michigan. So yes, I believe the ultimate mistake was taking this elite talent to develop with a team conducting in a shorter window.

Nevertheless, massive draft capital was used on him so to not be getting much return early is a disappointment IMO. At some point there gonna have to find a way to get him on the field and probably sooner then later which could mean beefing him up 20lb’s and using him at DE in our defense. The results could equal the next JJ Watt, or hopefully not for us the next Datone Jones. At least what I’m hearing is he won’t need surgery which is a positive.

I generally agree with the synopsis of Gary.

But when I mentioned coaching issue, I meant the general play of the D line outside of Clark against the run this year.

[Joemailman]

My one solid cause for optimism is that I don't buy the Packers were lucky all year. They played well at crucial times. I don't buy people figuring the officials. I would buy health of the team.

The 13-3 season seems like a good reason for optimism. But we will know next year. Nagy's first year effect wore off quickly.

In Nagy's 1st year the Bears lived off turnovers, forcing 36. That shortened the field for the Bears offense. They were 9th in scoring despite being 21st in yards. That level of turnovers not surprisingly proved impossible to duplicate as they fell to 19 in 2019. I'm not sure the Packers have a statistical performance category that will inevitably have a big drop off in 2020.

[GB-Brandon]

My one solid cause for optimism is that I don't buy the Packers were lucky all year. They played well at crucial times. I don't buy people figuring the officials. I would buy health of the team.

The 13-3 season seems like a good reason for optimism. But we will know next year. Nagy's first year effect wore off quickly.

I believe there is a lot of reason for optimism “IF” Gute uses available resources to shore up this roster successfully . We have all but ignored getting elite offensive firepower for years in favor of building and rebuilding this defense only to rebuild it again followed by getting ran off the field once again when it mattered. . At this stage of the game it is my opinion that the direction be to plug holes on defense with cost effective free agents(maybe one more big move) and add elite talent to the offense through the draft.

[GB-Brandon]

I generally agree with the synopsis of Gary.

But when I mentioned coaching issue, I meant the general play of the D line outside of Clark against the run this year.

It’s a Lowry and Lancaster issue along with playing one LB most of the time who isn’t a “world beater” by any means. It’s “smoke and mirrors” and while it worked well at times it got trucked by a physical team that can run at you as well as on the edge. They ran Daniels off with nobody as good as him to take his place and it came back to bite us.

If your gonna go out there and run two DL against a team like the niners they better be both of the level of Kenny Clark with a Bobby Wagner type behind them.