Preparing the Packers for the 2020 Season.

[Radagast]

Many threads are available to discuss either players or coaches or schedules or etc. related to the 2020 Season. This thread any and all areas related to the Packers next season

1st: Maintaining key personal like the GM, the HC. the OC, and the DC will give the Packers a strong foundation to build on as the 2019/20 season is put to rest. Now is the time to evaluate the past season and make decisions about making GB a better team for the 2020 Regular Season.

2nd: Maintaining key player personal like Rodgers, Jones, Adams, Martinez, the "Smiths" and others must be solid before additional building can take place. When this is accomplished, the available assets will be in better focus.

3rd: Identifying vacancies and/or weaknesses with players/staff must be identified. Research may need to be accomplished before hiring say a DB coach or what it would require to trade with another team for a desired player. In other words "Homework" will need to be done. From what I've seen, being unprepared does not seem to be an issue.

4th: An evaluation of every play run in the 2019/20 season needs to be undertaken. It will identify the strengths/weaknesses of not just players, but also how say an OT with exceptional blocking skills might fit better with the LaFleur Offense. How a real deep threat WR could open the field more for other WRs and TEs. How a better ILB could help address other defensive problems.


Much goes on behind the scenes prior to the draft or the opening of the FA market. Just pointing a finger at one player or one coach and exclaiming that they are to blame for this or that is foolish. I'd agree that changes do and often need to take place, but rushing to judgement over a player /coach does not resolve a problem unless the root causes ore identified. What kind/type of player would work best for the "team" and why must be known.

IMO, GB's greatest weaknesses/needs are:

1. WR
2. ILB
3. ORT
4. TE

The order does not place one need over any other, but does list where I believe GB must and will focus greater attention. These needs may be addressed through the Draft or through FA, or through both.

GB had a great W/L record in 2019/20. The challenge now is to move forward and not backwards.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm surprised you left off D Line among the weaknesses/needs. We also could use a top level Corner IMO.

[Radagast]

I'm surprised you left off D Line among the weaknesses/needs. We also could use a top level Corner IMO.

I don't ever expect that my observations/opinions will be universally agreed with. That is why you and others are alaway free to express their thoughts. If you see need at CB or or on the D-Line that's just fine. Be always ready however to explain/back up your post.

Which player/s on the D-Line are you unhappy with? Why?

Which CB/s are you unhappy with? Why?

Should these needs be addressed through the draft, FA, trades?

IMO, GB's Defense was much better than the 2018 version. That said I do believe that obtaining a proven FA ILB would add greatly for 2020. GB needs to build a Defense that can stop teams like NO, SF, Seattle and others. Simply defeating teams like Washington, Detroit, and Arizona while nice is not like trashing the Eagles or eating the Chiefs lunch (with Mahomes).

[MadtownPacker]

Really, everyone is free to express their thoughts with you?

[Radagast]

Really, everyone is free to express their thoughts with you?

I'm not able to put you on the ignore list. Go smoke your dope and stop trying to keep up with the clear thinking members.

[MadtownPacker]

What no racist comments today moron? Yeah you can’t block me stupid mfer. You really can’t do shit but sit on your high horse and tell others what you think is ok for them to do. Must be TONS of fun at parties (thanks Zool).

Blocking is a wimp move, especially for someone as brilliant as you.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/im-not-arrogant-08529d4d3c.jpg

[Joemailman]

I don't ever expect that my observations/opinions will be universally agreed with. That is why you and others are alaway free to express their thoughts. If you see need at CB or or on the D-Line that's just fine. Be always ready however to explain/back up your post.

Which player/s on the D-Line are you unhappy with? Why?

Which CB/s are you unhappy with? Why?

Should these needs be addressed through the draft, FA, trades?

IMO, GB's Defense was much better than the 2018 version. That said I do believe that obtaining a proven FA ILB would add greatly for 2020. GB needs to build a Defense that can stop teams like NO, SF, Seattle and others. Simply defeating teams like Washington, Detroit, and Arizona while nice is not like trashing the Eagles or eating the Chiefs lunch (with Mahomes).

Much of what you said is starting now. This is when the coaches get to spend a lot of time on self-review because hey're not busy preparing for he next opponent. On offense they'll be looking at which players fit into LaFleur's offense and which don't.

[Radagast]

Much of what you said is starting now. This is when the coaches get to spend a lot of time on self-review because hey're not busy preparing for he next opponent. On offense they'll be looking at which players fit into LaFleur's offense and which don't.

True enough Joe. However many don't have as good an understanding of what goes on in the "off season". Sure players go on vacations or party or just rest during the off season, but for the coaches and management the next year begins with the last game played. Additionally, most players have work out clauses in their contracts that add extra $. Much unseen work takes place on all NFL teams during the off season.

I identified some of these off season concerns and asked for independent opinions.

[MadtownPacker]

True enough? Can’t you just say “you’re right Joe”. Are you the only person that knows everything?

You are wealthy per you correct? That must be how you have all day to study the NFL. You should really be on ESPN with your amazing wit and radiant charm! :lol:

[Radagast]

True enough? Can’t you just say “you’re right Joe”. Are you the only person that knows everything?

You are wealthy per you correct? That must be how you have all day to study the NFL. You should really be on ESPN with your amazing wit and radiant charm! :lol:


I can say that a few English classes would do you no harm. It's easy to see that a high wage earner your not. You can't seen to form a sentence correctly, your rhetoric is random, and I can't remember the last time that you focused on a threads subject, but instead you feel the need to engage others in some personal attack contest.

Additionally, I've been an informed fan for longer than you've been alive. So yes I do know a bit about the different aspects of the game/business.I actually saw the 60's Packers play live on Sundays. I've seen every Super Bowl game ever played. I saw Johnny Unitas play for the Baltimore Colts, the 85 Bears, and even when OJ Simpson was just a RB for Buffalo. Yes I can see when a team needs WRs or a QB or CBs. I can distinguish between a good O-Line and a poor one. I also know that others also have opinions and (even if they are wrong) they too deserve to be heard as well

Enjoy your day off, that job at the dump is only a day away.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha Give the guy a break, Madtown. I think he's trying to be fairly civil.

As for my reply to your reply to my comments, Radagast, obviously Lowery and Lancaster, along with M. Adams. Keke has looked fairly good, but based on how little he has played, he must be behind the other three. Kenny Clark is a near-superstar. This apparently is a good year for quality D Line free agents. Let's get one.

As for Corners, I've said this more than a few times, Kevin King doesn't even rise to the level of mediocre in man coverage, although I think he would do all right in zone, and he seems like he could do well as a Safety. Alexander just doesn't seem as good in coverage as last year either. He would be great as a second Corner, but he hasn't been all that great shutting down teams' top WRs. As they say, you can never have too many good Corners. Unlike D Line, where it takes a few years to reach your peak and thus, free agency probably is the way to go, Corners straight out of college usually are as good in coverage as they are ever gonna get. So I'd give serious thought to drafting yet another one early.

[MadtownPacker]

Civil? I talk shit to him about his better than thou attitude. He brings race into it and not in a trash talk way like Red or anyone else does. Of course YOU would give him a break. Birds of a feather after all right? Both know-it-alls who think they're superior to others.

The good news is you can probably get a group rate to Thailand! ;)

[MadtownPacker]

I can say that a few English classes would do you no harm. It's easy to see that a high wage earner your not. You can't seen to form a sentence correctly, your rhetoric is random, and I can't remember the last time that you focused on a threads subject, but instead you feel the need to engage others in some personal attack contest.

Additionally, I've been an informed fan for longer than you've been alive. So yes I do know a bit about the different aspects of the game/business.I actually saw the 60's Packers play live on Sundays. I've seen every Super Bowl game ever played. I saw Johnny Unitas play for the Baltimore Colts, the 85 Bears, and even when OJ Simpson was just a RB for Buffalo. Yes I can see when a team needs WRs or a QB or CBs. I can distinguish between a good O-Line and a poor one. I also know that others also have opinions and (even if they are wrong) they too deserve to be heard as well

Enjoy your day off, that job at the dump is only a day away.How do you know what I earn or own you pathetic bigot? I don’t work as a garbage man. But when they come by to pickup I always say hi to them if I’m outside. They are hard working Americans, union, and get paid well from what I understand. Most would probably beat your elitist ass to the ground but you wouldn’t talk shit to them in person. Pathetic that you look down on anyone’s job. I was poor growing up and value hard work and the things I have earned in this life.

What do you do for a living and can you prove it? Let’s see some proof. Otherwise you are just a well spoken phony.

[hoosier]

I think "elitist" is a bit of a stretch in this case. Elitist wanna be, that I could see.

[MadtownPacker]

Hoosier meet radagast:


https://youtu.be/uwOCOm9Z0YE

[pbmax]

Had no idea Johnny Unitas played for the 85 Bears.

[texaspackerbacker]

Civil? I talk shit to him about his better than thou attitude. He brings race into it and not in a trash talk way like Red or anyone else does. Of course YOU would give him a break. Birds of a feather after all right? Both know-it-alls who think they're superior to others.

The good news is you can probably get a group rate to Thailand! ;)

Yeah, I know what you mean, and it rubs me the wrong way too, but in this thread (and maybe otherwise occasionally hahahaha), he seemed to be trying to be a little bit Good and Normal. You gotta admit, he ain't as bad as sharpcheddar hahahahaha.

And hell no, you shouldn't compare me to him hahahahaha. I'm as easy going and tolerant and civil as a guy can be with maybe 3 or 4 exceptions in here who deserve whatever shit I give them.

[hoosier]

Hoosier meet radagast:


https://youtu.be/uwOCOm9Z0YE

Nah, that ain't him, that's a northern Virginian from Arlington. Your guy's a rube from downstate.

[RashanGary]

Some good stuff touched upon in here. Radagast needs some compassion and maybe a new soul. Madtown needs a new job away from the dump. The rest of us need an off-season laugh, so it's working out!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Much of what you said is starting now. This is when the coaches get to spend a lot of time on self-review because hey're not busy preparing for he next opponent. On offense they'll be looking at which players fit into LaFleur's offense and which don't.

Yep. The coaching staff goes through their self scouting and they all start doing their due diligence for the draft. Pretty standard off-season stuff.

[Sparkey]

I don't agree with you in placing Martinez in the key personnel listing. If he is the best you can do at linebacker, then the same issues that we saw this year in the middle of the field defense will happen again. He has too many flaws that can not be covered up with a scheme as we saw in both 49er games, among the others.

[pbmax]

I don't agree with you in placing Martinez in the key personnel listing. If he is the best you can do at linebacker, then the same issues that we saw this year in the middle of the field defense will happen again. He has too many flaws that can not be covered up with a scheme as we saw in both 49er games, among the others.

I think he can play most downs. But if he is your best coverage 'backer, you have a problem.

If Pettine's system expects you to corral the run while you one gap your way to the QB, he still needs to develop playing downhill (though he was better this year).

At a minimum, he needs speedy relief.

[Bretsky]

BLAKE MARTINEZ; listened to a very interesting interview at end of year. Almost seemed like an exit interview. Clearly he wants to stay in Green Bay. He thanked everybody, and noted how much he loves Lambeau and the invironment ant the fans.

GOT ME THINKING...............HOW MUCH WOULD WE PAY THE GUY AND BE HAPPY ????????????

He's about the only ILB who makes a loot of tackles and plays. But I don't think GB can really pay him his value as measured in free agency.

I'd embrace signing him for 6MIL/Year. My gut tells me that's about what GB wants, and he's about to get 8 to 10, and he knows her his agent he's played his last game as a Packer.



P.S. ANYBODY think there could be a ray of hope Rashan Gary could play ILB ?

[texaspackerbacker]

BLAKE MARTINEZ; listened to a very interesting interview at end of year. Almost seemed like an exit interview. Clearly he wants to stay in Green Bay. He thanked everybody, and noted how much he loves Lambeau and the invironment ant the fans.

GOT ME THINKING...............HOW MUCH WOULD WE PAY THE GUY AND BE HAPPY ????????????

He's about the only ILB who makes a loot of tackles and plays. But I don't think GB can really pay him his value as measured in free agency.

I'd embrace signing him for 6MIL/Year. My gut tells me that's about what GB wants, and he's about to get 8 to 10, and he knows her his agent he's played his last game as a Packer.



P.S. ANYBODY think there could be a ray of hope Rashan Gary could play ILB ?

They should pay him $8 million. If it goes to $10 million or more, let him walk and sign somebody about as good.

Gary would make a good 4-3 DE. Zadarius would also be a good 4-3 DE, but he'd be decent as a 4-3 OLB too. Preston and Gary at DE, Clark and Reader (FA) at DT, Zadarius and Fackrell at OLB with Martinez at MLB in the 4-3 - my wish, even though it's unlikely to happen.

[Radagast]

As much as I appreciate the ILB/LB discussion, I rate it 2nd or 3rd on the priority list. GB needs WRs that can offer a deep threat and another that can work the middle of the field. Adams best at the sideline routes and some deep ones. If Gute can't manage a trade up in the next draft to take a WR, then he certainly will go after a FA or try a trade for one with another team. KC could spare one it's deep threat WRs.

As for the trash talk, most can't form a valad football opinion and can't debate against one. Also, not all realize what takes place with NFL teams at this time of the year. Vacations, sure, but most know that the better prepared a team is the better they do in the FA and Draft that will be here before we know it.

Rashan Gary was/is a bust and a waste of of a 1st round draft pick.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I think he can play most downs. But if he is your best coverage 'backer, you have a problem.

If Pettine's system expects you to corral the run while you one gap your way to the QB, he still needs to develop playing downhill (though he was better this year).

At a minimum, he needs speedy relief.

I'd think at a minimum, he needs a better ILB partner. It's been a revolving dumpster fire next to him.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers are built for a 3-4 defense. The Smith's are prototypical outside linebackers/Edge rushers in the NFL. you would be hindering their ability by asking them to play with their hand in the ground. Could they do it? Probably, but why sign them to a shit ton of money and then ask them to play a foreign position when they have excelled as outside edge rushers in a 3-4?

The base in the NFL doesn't really matter any more, as teams are constantly running personnel out on the field. to get 5 defensive backs on the field just about every team has a different packages of defensive linemen and linebackers to do it.

Packers need to improve the middle of their defense, learn from the mistakes in 2019 and continue to get better.

Rashan Gary is not an inside linebacker, he went from a 5 tech defensive end to an outside linebacker/Edge rusher. He would have no idea how to play inside linebacker.

[Bretsky]

I'm surprised you left off D Line among the weaknesses/needs. We also could use a top level Corner IMO.


Alexander is a top level CB

[Bretsky]

Many threads are available to discuss either players or coaches or schedules or etc. related to the 2020 Season. This thread any and all areas related to the Packers next season

1st: Maintaining key personal like the GM, the HC. the OC, and the DC will give the Packers a strong foundation to build on as the 2019/20 season is put to rest. Now is the time to evaluate the past season and make decisions about making GB a better team for the 2020 Regular Season.

2nd: Maintaining key player personal like Rodgers, Jones, Adams, Martinez, the "Smiths" and others must be solid before additional building can take place. When this is accomplished, the available assets will be in better focus.

3rd: Identifying vacancies and/or weaknesses with players/staff must be identified. Research may need to be accomplished before hiring say a DB coach or what it would require to trade with another team for a desired player. In other words "Homework" will need to be done. From what I've seen, being unprepared does not seem to be an issue.

4th: An evaluation of every play run in the 2019/20 season needs to be undertaken. It will identify the strengths/weaknesses of not just players, but also how say an OT with exceptional blocking skills might fit better with the LaFleur Offense. How a real deep threat WR could open the field more for other WRs and TEs. How a better ILB could help address other defensive problems.


Much goes on behind the scenes prior to the draft or the opening of the FA market. Just pointing a finger at one player or one coach and exclaiming that they are to blame for this or that is foolish. I'd agree that changes do and often need to take place, but rushing to judgement over a player /coach does not resolve a problem unless the root causes ore identified. What kind/type of player would work best for the "team" and why must be known.

IMO, GB's greatest weaknesses/needs are:

1. WR
2. ILB
3. ORT
4. TE

The order does not place one need over any other, but does list where I believe GB must and will focus greater attention. These needs may be addressed through the Draft or through FA, or through both.

GB had a great W/L record in 2019/20. The challenge now is to move forward and not backwards.

LOTS OF GOOD INFO

Captain Obvious Post, but Denver was trying to move down last year; we shouldn't have let Pittsuburg jump us. We had our ILB right in our wheelhouse........same colleget as the Baconator; he just produced

[texaspackerbacker]

Alexander is a top level CB

He wasn't able to adequately cover the top receivers of most teams this past season - he seemed to regress from the year before. And even if you assume he is top level, King is not even close to adequate as the second Corner. The only time the Packers had decent coverage is when they went all in for pass rush, and the Corners only had to cover for a really short time.

Corners usually are as good as they are ever gonna get as rookies (unlike D Line and a lot of other positions). Even with the various other needs, I wouldn't mind seeing us get another at least as good as Alexander.

As for trading up for a WR, no. There are just so many good ones this year that second or even third round should be good enough. Duvernay of Texas is the one I'd like to see us get.

I disagree that the Packers are built for a 3-4. The Smiths are basically playing like 4-3 DEs now without having any OLBs behind them. Who says nowadays that DEs need to play with their hand in the ground? After seeing Z. Smith in the Pro Bowl, though, I think I'd prefer him at OLB even in a 4-3. He'd have less resistance and more element of surprise rushing from there, and he certainly could do the traditional job of a OLB. Gary also is best suited IMO for 4-3 DE.

The idea of letting Martinez walk scares the hell out of me unless we have a deal in place for Littleton or somebody as good as either of those two. People whine about him making tackles a few yards downfield; Well, those tackles in a lot of cases wouldn't be made by lesser LBs. He does need more gap discipline and reading rather than guessing on run plays, though.

[MadtownPacker]

I can say that a few English classes would do you no harm. It's easy to see that a high wage earner your not. You can't seen to form a sentence correctly, your rhetoric is random, and I can't remember the last time that you focused on a threads subject, but instead you feel the need to engage others in some personal attack contest.You're probably right my grammar is jacked. Glad a genius is here to point that out.
Hold up are some of these misspelled? Is this a run on sentence? Asking so I can learn since you have taken a few English classes.

[Smidgeon]

You're probably right my grammar is jacked. Glad a genius is here to point that out.
Hold up are some of these misspelled? Is this a run on sentence? Asking so I can learn since you have taken a few English classes.

Hahahahahaha!

[run pMc]

I think King is just ok. I think this year was a year of growth for him - he managed to stay fairly healthy. Snaps for young DBs are invaluable -- they will often get tested and picked on, especially their rookie year, and then they get steadier. Having a 6-3 CB is nice against bigger receivers, but I didn't get the sense he played to his measurables. He and Alexander also dropped a few picks. Not sad Jason Simmons left -- I think they could find someone to further develop those guys.
I was surprised Hollman never got on the field, and never heard exactly what happened with Tony Brown (punched Holmgren?), but Sullivan was a decent find and I think he'll get better, which helps offset Josh Jackson. CB is a spot where you want several good ones. Pass rush helps too.

Trading up for a WR seems like a weird proposition -- I wouldn't be shocked if Gute pulls another 2018 and drafts mid-rounds for WRs. There will be a lot of WRs going in R5 that normally would go one or two rounds earlier. If Jeudy or Lamb falls into the early 20's I might think about a move up, but even then they have so many other needs, I almost wonder if they will be better off trading down 5-6 spots and picking up an extra R4 to double up on WRs there. They will need 2 more IMO.

OT and ILB are likely higher priorities if you're going by need. If they bring back Bulaga I'd still draft a developmental guy. With the money they have spent on the OL (Bahk-Turner-Linsley Overdrive) I could see them going for a high round pick and trying to talk Veldheer into starting the 1st 4 games until the new guy gets his legs under him. I wonder if Summers can replace most of what Martinez did, and then drafting a speedy 3 down guy who can cover to help. Burks can become a ST demon, but I don't have faith he'll be playing a lot of snaps on D.

Keke will leapfrog Adams on the depth chart and Adams might not make it out of TC. Lancaster is ok vs. the run but they can do a lot better. I don't think they can play Clark 80% of the snaps as a long term solution.

Not sure moving to a 4-3 is a good idea. They would have to revamp parts of their roster, and Pettine is at heart a 3-4 guy. It looks like they play a 4-3 but it's really a 2-4-5 nickel, and Preston will drop into coverage sometimes. The Smiths aren't 4-3 DEs. Honestly, getting another good DL to help Clark, and teaching these guys how to fill run fits would go a long way.

[pbmax]

I can get behind Bach-Ton Turner Overdrive.

I understand listing ILB ahead of WR, but with the exception of the 49er games, the Packers demonstrated their D could function with less than stellar play there. If you prioritize ILB in the first round, you can get a decent WR in second.

And, of course, a Pro Bowl OL in the fourth round.

[Vincenzo]

Lol, what I’d like to know is what the fuck is wrong with being a garbage man. That’s a rock solid, secure job here in Canada.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think King is just ok. I think this year was a year of growth for him - he managed to stay fairly healthy. Snaps for young DBs are invaluable -- they will often get tested and picked on, especially their rookie year, and then they get steadier. Having a 6-3 CB is nice against bigger receivers, but I didn't get the sense he played to his measurables. He and Alexander also dropped a few picks. Not sad Jason Simmons left -- I think they could find someone to further develop those guys.
I was surprised Hollman never got on the field, and never heard exactly what happened with Tony Brown (punched Holmgren?), but Sullivan was a decent find and I think he'll get better, which helps offset Josh Jackson. CB is a spot where you want several good ones. Pass rush helps too.


hahahaha Just ok like in a GEICO commercial. King did snag some interceptions. I think he would do better in zone coverage or maybe as a Safety. Hopefully (but not likely) a replacement for Simmons would bring in some zone. Honestly, when I heard Simmons left, I thought "who's Simmons" - I thought Joe Whitt was still the DB coach. I agree, the new guy needs to coach up Hollman and maybe even figure out something for Josh Jackson.

[pbmax]

Lol, what I’d like to know is what the fuck is wrong with being a garbage man. That’s a rock solid, secure job here in Canada.

I'd answer, but then I'd have to remove or edit my post.

Mostly, Radagast is an insufferable loon.

[George Cumby]

King's decent to good.

It'd be nice to keep Martinez, if we had another stud in front of him, there's a lot of folks who would be singing a different tune.

Changing to a 4-3 makes no sense at all.

Lots of reasons to be concerned about Gary, but anyone calling him a bust at this point doesn't really have a valad football point.

A plug and play WR capable of taking the top off the defense and another front 7 stud would be nice.

[George Cumby]

Mostly, Radagast is an insufferable loon.

Kind of like Woodbuck's insane, mean spirited, racist, drunken uncle?

[pbmax]

I just don't get Gary's game.

Jamal Reynolds was too small, too small framed, to get by anyone and his speed was not all that impressive around the edge. He was reduced to ducking around a corner on tackles.

KGB had similar speed, perhaps better AND he could leverage around the tackle with good bend or lean. It was all he could do, but he did it pretty well. He had no bull rush to speak of.

Gary doesn't get around a corner like KGB but his speed is WAY better. Its Matthews like. But when he gets close to finishing, he just doesn't get there. His bull rush is OK too. He needs a finishing move AND a counter to speed to the inside.

My worry is that I have never seen someone develop the finishing move as a pro. Usually, its getting to that point that is the problem.

[Zool]

I just don't get Gary's game.

Jamal Reynolds was too small, too small framed, to get by anyone and his speed was not all that impressive around the edge. He was reduced to ducking around a corner on tackles.

KGB had similar speed, perhaps better AND he could leverage around the tackle with good bend or lean. It was all he could do, but he did it pretty well. He had no bull rush to speak of.

Gary doesn't get around a corner like KGB but his speed is WAY better. Its Matthews like. But when he gets close to finishing, he just doesn't get there. His bull rush is OK too. He needs a finishing move AND a counter to speed to the inside.

My worry is that I have never seen someone develop the finishing move as a pro. Usually, its getting to that point that is the problem.

He also gets no where near starter snaps because there's $100M in front of him. How much did he play up in college? I recall him playing down lineman in all the films I saw. Maybe he really is just learning.

Z had a good rookie year, then had 1 sack in year 2 with 4 QB hits. Better year 3, then a very good year 4.
Preston had 8 sacks as a rookie on 10 QB hits. That's Frackle level.

Now, they were 4th and 2nd round picks but here's still hope. My only wonder is that he's Nick Perry 2.0 and always is just okay.

[pbmax]

He also gets no where near starter snaps because there's $100M in front of him. How much did he play up in college? I recall him playing down lineman in all the films I saw. Maybe he really is just learning.

Z had a good rookie year, then had 1 sack in year 2 with 4 QB hits. Better year 3, then a very good year 4.
Preston had 8 sacks as a rookie on 10 QB hits. That's Frackle level.

Now, they were 4th and 2nd round picks but here's still hope. My only wonder is that he's Nick Perry 2.0 and always is just okay.

Could be. Its also the problem with the developmental guy in the first round after you spend a boatload in cash on starters.

[Bretsky]

Could be. Its also the problem with the developmental guy in the first round after you spend a boatload in cash on starters.


And it could be that his measurable s are just far superior to his play and they are going to be sucker GM's that fall for what. I don't understand why so many just ignore his college production; this year should be no surprise to anybody who followed Big Ten Football . I am being lazy here; and I don't feel like looking the hippy up but it would not surprise me at all if Winnovich was the better Rookie OLB this year. He produced more in college. Gary's measurable s are crazy insane and coaches think they can coach that up. But history is against us. . But he disappointed as a Wolverine and Packer so far. . Everybody thinks they can make a star out of the freak athletes.

Just sux that we could have went so many ways with that pick that coudl have really inpacted out future at a bunch of positions on need. We won't see a number 12 pick for a long time now. What a great opportunity

[Bretsky]

Could be. Its also the problem with the developmental guy in the first round after you spend a boatload in cash on starters.

a Valid point and another reason to pass on him. On a win now team he wasn't good enough to beat out Fackrell. Plenty of picks after him would have.

[hoosier]

Kind of like Woodbuck's insane, mean spirited, racist, drunken uncle?

Stop stealing my material!!!!!!!!!

[bobblehead]

BLAKE MARTINEZ; listened to a very interesting interview at end of year. Almost seemed like an exit interview. Clearly he wants to stay in Green Bay. He thanked everybody, and noted how much he loves Lambeau and the invironment ant the fans.

GOT ME THINKING...............HOW MUCH WOULD WE PAY THE GUY AND BE HAPPY ????????????

He's about the only ILB who makes a loot of tackles and plays. But I don't think GB can really pay him his value as measured in free agency.

I'd embrace signing him for 6MIL/Year. My gut tells me that's about what GB wants, and he's about to get 8 to 10, and he knows her his agent he's played his last game as a Packer.



P.S. ANYBODY think there could be a ray of hope Rashan Gary could play ILB ?

If Rashan develops footballs instincts maybe. I see his career shaping out as a 3rd down pass rush specialist and that is about all. That has value if he gets really good at it.

I think blake at $5 million is about it, but I could stomach 6. Someone will pay him more though.

[bobblehead]

I just don't get Gary's game.

Jamal Reynolds was too small, too small framed, to get by anyone and his speed was not all that impressive around the edge. He was reduced to ducking around a corner on tackles.

KGB had similar speed, perhaps better AND he could leverage around the tackle with good bend or lean. It was all he could do, but he did it pretty well. He had no bull rush to speak of.

Gary doesn't get around a corner like KGB but his speed is WAY better. Its Matthews like. But when he gets close to finishing, he just doesn't get there. His bull rush is OK too. He needs a finishing move AND a counter to speed to the inside.

My worry is that I have never seen someone develop the finishing move as a pro. Usually, its getting to that point that is the problem.

Cameron Wake and James Harrison. Wake's arm swat karate move is incredible. Harrison was a practice squad guy who developed an arsenal.

[bobblehead]

And it could be that his measurable s are just far superior to his play and they are going to be sucker GM's that fall for what. I don't understand why so many just ignore his college production; this year should be no surprise to anybody who followed Big Ten Football . I am being lazy here; and I don't feel like looking the hippy up but it would not surprise me at all if Winnovich was the better Rookie OLB this year. He produced more in college. Gary's measurable s are crazy insane and coaches think they can coach that up. But history is against us. . But he disappointed as a Wolverine and Packer so far. . Everybody thinks they can make a star out of the freak athletes.

Just sux that we could have went so many ways with that pick that coudl have really inpacted out future at a bunch of positions on need. We won't see a number 12 pick for a long time now. What a great opportunity

Winovich was a player this year. I can't quote stats, but I watched about 5 games this year and I noticed him. I watched 18 packer games and noticed Gary 2x.

[Radagast]

If Rashan develops footballs instincts maybe. I see his career shaping out as a 3rd down pass rush specialist and that is about all. That has value if he gets really good at it.

I think blake at $5 million is about it, but I could stomach 6. Someone will pay him more though.


Do you think Rashan Gary might have any trade value? Could GB recover even a small bit of the resources wasted on this 1st round draft bust?

[Patler]

I can say that a few English classes would do you no harm. It's easy to see that a high wage earner your not. You can't seen to form a sentence correctly, your rhetoric is random, and I can't remember the last time that you focused on a threads subject, but instead you feel the need to engage others in some personal attack contest.

Additionally, I've been an informed fan for longer than you've been alive. So yes I do know a bit about the different aspects of the game/business.I actually saw the 60's Packers play live on Sundays. I've seen every Super Bowl game ever played. I saw Johnny Unitas play for the Baltimore Colts, the 85 Bears, and even when OJ Simpson was just a RB for Buffalo. Yes I can see when a team needs WRs or a QB or CBs. I can distinguish between a good O-Line and a poor one. I also know that others also have opinions and (even if they are wrong) they too deserve to be heard as well

Enjoy your day off, that job at the dump is only a day away.

Re: First Paragraph - Complaining about about the literary compositions of others while having routine errors in your own compositions makes you look a little foolish/pompous.

Re: Second Paragraph - None of that makes you very unique on this board. In fact, if those are your best qualifications, you are well behind many who contribute here.

Re: Your last sentence - Civility goes a long way.

[Bretsky]

Do you think Rashan Gary might have any trade value? Could GB recover even a small bit of the resources wasted on this 1st round draft bust?


Should we take volunteers for who wants to make the phone calls ?

[Patler]

I think I have higher opinions of King and Martinez than many on here do. I'm not saying they are All Pros, but I think they are valuable contributors. My opinion of Alexander probably is a bit lower than many others' opinions of him. I think he is good, but no where near a true shutdown guy. I think King and Alexander are not that much separated in over all "value" to the defense.

A defense can always use a tackling machine. Martinez is that.

Basically, the defense has no impact players, except in pass rush. The Smiths come across as somewhat one-dimensional. They make plays behind the Los, but not at it or beyond. No one makes an impact in coverage; they are just OK. Collectively they make little impact in interceptions, none in forced fumbles. There is no stud against the run.

Just a lot of "OK" players.

[Patler]

I'm not ready to give up on Gary, yet.

[Deputy Nutz]

Do you think Rashan Gary might have any trade value? Could GB recover even a small bit of the resources wasted on this 1st round draft bust?
I will take my chances replying to you and this post. Trading guys after their rookie year is rare, besides right now you could maybe trade him for a day 3 pick in the draft and his potential still outpaces that of a late round draft pick. The Gary pick didn't make sense at the time, it still doesn't. He was a top 5 athlete in the 2019 draft but huge question marks after his production at Michigan and interviews at the Combine. If you look at the pick inside a vacuum it's a risk vs high reward if he pays off, but it didn't happen in a vacuum. The Packers signed two high profile edge rushers that received the majority of the snaps while Rashan Gary had to take limited snaps. He was also recovering from off season shoulder injury. If he had the snaps some of the other edge rushers had in this draft and if he was completely healthy I think on just his athleticism he could have gotten 6 or 7 sacks this season, and our outlook would be vastly different.

Were there better prospects in the 2019 draft? Possibly. I just recognized how much overall athletic ability and talent Gary actually has compared some of the other talent at the Edge position. Here was draft break down of the group last year.

Edge Rushers: Whether this is a defensive end or a a rush OLB I will rank them here. Top heavy group, where talent goes down hill quickly after the top few guys.

Tier 1
1. Nick Bosa DE Ohio St - Bosa is a down rusher and I wouldn't want to see a team use him any other way. He has a great explosion off the snap and wins most of the battles he has because of how fast he gets out of his stance. He has several different rush moves that he combine to also rush the passer and give offensive tackles fits. Quick change of direction helps him play the run just as well.

2. Clelin Ferrell DE/OLB Clemson - Young player coming into this draft and physically hasn't fully developed, but he is a student of the game and uses great and violent hands. Ran a below average 40 at his Pro Day (4.8) which I think has him falling in the first round by the draft experts. I think he has good change of direction, decent feet and a good motor. He needs to add strength to his lower body.

3. Brian Burns OLB Florida St - He has to play OLB at the next level, he doesn't have the frame to play DE in the NFL as an every down player. At this point I would characterize him as a speed rusher with the potential to develop other aspects of his game. He has a tremendous motor and is a high energy kid.

4. Josh Allen OLB Kentucky - Only true outside linebacker in this group. Has a chiseled physique and with a great combine he is now rated as a top 5 player. He can rush the passer, play the run, and drop in to coverage. My biggest question with him are his instincts and whether or not he plays just on his athleticism or does he watch film to help his recognition skills? To me he is still sort of a project with a really high ceiling and no basement.

Tier 2
5. Montez Sweat DE Mississippi St - Tall defensive end that absolutely crushed the combine with a very rare combination of size and speed. I didn't see the athleticism translate on film all the time. He is what I call a peeker. He needs to see whats going on in the backfield to gain knowledge instead of reading the tackles block. That recognition takes time, and by the time he realizes what is happening the offensive tackle has engulfed him. He doesn't have much for secondary pass rush moves. He runs very stiff and looks awkward on film when he is in chase mode.

6. Rashan Gary DE Michigan - Gary has all the physical traits you look for in a defensive end and then more. His biggest question mark during the draft process is his lack of production on film. He might have been playing out of position as a DT, but for the number 1 rated high school player you wouldn't think it would slow his production that much. His motor has serious question marks, but his ability and potential are sky high.

7. Chase Winovich DE/OLB Michigan - Tweener. Teams will have to find out if he can play in space or if he will best be suited as an undersized defensive end. High motor kid that works extremely hard at playing the game of football. Great combine shot him up the draft boards, which in a way confirmed that he just doesn't get by on his motor that there is a good athlete under all that hair.

Tier 3
8. Jaylon Ferguson DE/OLB Louisiana Tech - He is the all time leader in sacks at the NCAA level. He had 26 tackles for a loss last season, but when he went against offensive tackles at the senior bowl his pass rush was nullified. He has the size to play as a down end in the NFL. Needs to play with better pad level and improve his counter attack.

9.Oshane Ximines OLB/DE Old Dominion - Small school kid which brings forth a lot of questions about how he can match up against NFL caliber talent. He has the size you are looking for but he had a less than ideal combine that raised question about his athleticism. So the small school competition and the athleticism are issues that teams are going to struggle with. On film he does a decent job of rushing the passer with several pass rushing moves. He doesn't rely on just one or two moves. He has quality hands and is agile enough with his feet. The negative on film is that he needs to anchor better against the run and not get engulfed by offensive linemen.

10. LJ Collier DE Texas Christian - Great anchor and has some of the best violent hands in the draft. He has exceptionally long arms and hand size considering his height. Has great recognition skills pre snap and can gain an edge rushing the passer. I would like to see him get off the snap quicker and play with better bend in the lower body.

Others: Austin Bryant Clemson, Charles Omenthihu Texas, D'Andre Walker Georgia, Christian Miller Alabama.

[Radagast]

D Nutz, your post is interesting. No arguments with your opinions, but I would like to know where you got the player evaluations from? Additionally, as GB did address the need at edge rusher with FAs, a WR or ILB could have been a better use of the fairly good 1st round 2019 Draft pick.

This 2020 NFL DRAFT will see GB pick at likely the 30th spot. I continue to hear that good WRs will be available. IMO, if a real deep threat WR is still on the board for the Packers, then they should take him. Failing that, if an Offensive Tackle is still on the board that won't just polish the bench, then go with him.

[pbmax]

If Rashan develops footballs instincts maybe. I see his career shaping out as a 3rd down pass rush specialist and that is about all. That has value if he gets really good at it.

I think blake at $5 million is about it, but I could stomach 6. Someone will pay him more though.

I think even if all teams think his tackle numbers are partially fraudulent, he is getting more than that somewhere.

[pbmax]

Cameron Wake and James Harrison. Wake's arm swat karate move is incredible. Harrison was a practice squad guy who developed an arsenal.

Harrison I'll give you as a developmental guy but was it the finishing move he developed? Or did he just get bigger and stronger?

Wake's swat is what gives him separation but I wouldn't say its a finishing move.

But perhaps Gary needs ANY move and some more strength and then problem solved. He just never seems to get to the QB quickly. Its all rounded off corners, like a bad route by a receiver.

[Deputy Nutz]

D Nutz, your post is interesting. No arguments with your opinions, but I would like to know where you got the player evaluations from? Additionally, as GB did address the need at edge rusher with FAs, a WR or ILB could have been a better use of the fairly good 1st round 2019 Draft pick.

This 2020 NFL DRAFT will see GB pick at likely the 30th spot. I continue to hear that good WRs will be available. IMO, if a real deep threat WR is still on the board for the Packers, then they should take him. Failing that, if an Offensive Tackle is still on the board that won't just polish the bench, then go with him.

I watched film and and created the tiers myself. The draft is based on the value of player based on the organizations big board balanced on the needs of the organization.

Obviously there were receivers and tackles of considerable value at the 12th selection in last year's draft. Looking at how the draft played out teams either didn't have receiver valued as high or they didn't want to be the first team to draft out of the top tier which was stacked. There were some questions about Metcalf, similar to Gary about his college production. Metcalf was the top rated receiver on many draft boards for the media talking heads.

[RashanGary]

He just never seems to get to the QB quickly. Its all rounded off corners, like a bad route by a receiver.

His pass rush is perplexing. Runs the long way around a chipping tight end and then the next play runs square into a 330 pound OT.

It's really hard for me to wrap my mind around what he's trying to do.

It's like he hes spacially retarded. All my kids by the age of 6 could comprehend taking the short route or that when they were the bigger kid they could push through a smaller one. So to see a grown adult not understand a basic spacial concept like distance or a basic physical concept like strength through a smaller player. It's really hard for me to understand how it's possible to be so stupid .

[RashanGary]

Garys spacial sense is less than a normal 6 year old. I'm convinced he's clinically retarded. And I know that sounds insensitive and cruel, but it's just a fact. Rashan Gary has the spatial sense of a 5 year old.

[RashanGary]

The positives of Gary is that hes big, fast, strong and tries really hard. He really wants to succeed .

The downside is that he's stunted mentally . Especially spacially. Thats hard to overcome in football, even if you are bigger faster stronger and try harder. At some point you have to understand basic angles

[Deputy Nutz]

I know you are trying to be funny, but you do know that the word "retarded" fell out of favor as a medical diagnoses decades ago. I have no issue with the use of the word "retard" as a simile for the word "stupid", or "dumb". Some people are very offended by the word "retard" because it was used as a diagnoses years ago and people with Intellectual disabilities were then referred to as "retards" or they are "retarded". It became a very negative word and a hurtful word to people with disabilities both intellectual and physical.

Obvious Rashan Gary is not "intellectually disabled" or as you refer to him as "clinically retarded". He has more physical gifts than you could ever imagine. He struggled this year with adapting to the NFL game and the correct angles he needed to take to get the QB. I would think with his abilities he could figure it out, but he will need the reps to start building his muscle memory. Of the first round pass rushers he was probably at the low end of meaningful snaps in the 2019 season. The Packers didn't need him to play 50 snaps a game. The most snaps he ever got in a game was 22, the lowest was 3 in the NFC Championship game.

[RashanGary]

Zadarius has such a feel for space, he stutter steps one way, then does a bull fighter ole the other way while the OL attacks air. Straight three step route to the QB.

Guys like kuekly and Darrius Leanard understand their gap so well, rather than shooting straight to it, they bait the RB into thinking it's open by hiding behind the DL while flowing and then they appear in the Gap at the last second and destroy the RB. They hide and flow and know where they're going the whole.time.

Gary is the opposite. I guarantee the average 6 year old would out wit Gary in a spacial test.

I'm 5'10 and 200 pounds. Fairly athletic even at 38 years. I could block Gary on a lot of plays because he literally doesn't understand the basic concept that he's bigger than me and he would try to run 7 yards around me. He blocks himself with stupidity

[RashanGary]

Nutz, there is no polite way to say it. He is touched.

[Deputy Nutz]

I'm 5'10 and 200 pounds. Fairly athletic even at 38 years. I could block Gary on a lot of plays because he literally doesn't understand the basic concept that he's bigger than me and he would try to run 7 yards around me. He blocks himself with stupidity

He would fuck you up 100 times out of 100 times. You now have zero validation on any of this if you actually think you could come even remotely close to blocking a 6'5" 265lb man that can run a 4.5 forty.

[run pMc]

Gary is mostly bull rush right now, which is likely why you hear some think he should put on 10 pounds and rush inside -- to push the pocket. I think OLB is new to him and he's learning it and the pro game. Learning it from Holy Fackarolly and the Smiths isn't a bad way to do it your frosh year. I think the Year 2 leap will be important, but I also wonder if he's such a project that it will actually take until Year 3. Either way, you do NOT trade your #12 pick away after their rookie season. You're selling low before you even know what you have (he's not a finished product, and rookies rarely dominate).

[run pMc]

He would fuck you up 100 times out of 100 times. You now have zero validation on any of this if you actually think you could come even remotely close to blocking a 6'5" 265lb man that can run a 4.5 forty.

You forgot to mention he benched 225 26 times in a row at the combine with an iffy shoulder. Pretty sure he could ragdoll and throw most of us like Chewbacca throws a droid.

[Patler]

If Gary was as unsuccessful as some of you suggest, how do you explain the fact that near or at the end of the year he had averaged a QB pressure in less than every 10 snaps? This was better than anyone in 2018, including Fackrell, who had 10 sacks.

Per Cheesehead TV:

By the time the Packers had played their 10th game of the season, Gary had nine total pressures, six solo tackles, and a sack. Certainly not eye-popping numbers by any means but he was making progress. According to Pro Football Focus, from week 6 to week 10, Gary was the Packers' most improved defensive player as his overall grade jumped 27.3 points during that span.
From his knowledge of the defense to his overall technique, Gary was making strides in the right direction and eventually the production was going to follow. And it looks like over the last three weeks, we are at that point.
Against Washington, Chicago, and Minnesota, Gary has recorded five total pressures, with one sack and eight total tackles, two of which have been for a loss. He also put together the best game of his short career when facing the Bears as he totaled three tackles, one of which was for a loss, along with a sack. Oh, and did I mention that he did all of that with just 46 total defensive snaps over the last three games? Both as a pass-rusher and as a run defender, Gary is getting better at just the right time for this Green Bay Packers team.

Extrapolating from those 46 snaps the final 3 games to a season's snaps as a starter/regular you get some pretty good numbers.

I don't think this year really answered any questions about Gary. The Packers didn't use Gary because they didn't have to. They had a luxury teams don't always get with first round draft picks.

[RashanGary]

I like some of the worst players who've ever played in Green Bay because I dont value human beings based on how they play football or on if they understand basic concepts that apply to football. I'm horrible at some things, like I could snap and kill someone of I feel threatened or whatever. People can label me however they want. Psycho, bad, dangerous, whatever. So when I see someone who's lacking in an area, I lack in areas too. It just is what it is.

[RashanGary]

He would fuck you up 100 times out of 100 times. You now have zero validation on any of this if you actually think you could come even remotely close to blocking a 6'5" 265lb man that can run a 4.5 forty.

They could tell Gary before the play, "if that guy is blocking you, throw him into the QB" and he'd still, half of the time try to run 7 yards around me. That's just who he is

[gbgary]

He wasn't able to adequately cover the top receivers of most teams this past season - he seemed to regress from the year before.

i don't recall alexander being half the problem king was. a slip here and there taken away and he's our shut down guy. think about all the sacks we got this year too. how many of those were due to the qb having to hold the ball a tick or two longer due to coverage?

[Radagast]

You forgot to mention he benched 225 26 times in a row at the combine with an iffy shoulder. Pretty sure he could ragdoll and throw most of us like Chewbacca throws a droid.

Sounds like a WWF Superstar rather than an NFL player. Gary the Chewbacca Warrier? LOL

[Zool]

I'm 5'10 and 200 pounds. Fairly athletic even at 38 years. I could block Gary on a lot of plays because he literally doesn't understand the basic concept that he's bigger than me and he would try to run 7 yards around me. He blocks himself with stupidity

Nope

Go to the 42 second mark of the below video. He engages a TE and moves him backwards 4 feet on contact. That's the closest I've found to him hitting someone close to your size. He's 6'3" and 240. This guy practices football and lifts weights daily. He hits tackles and they go backwards at 300+ pounds.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz5eDZcHg8k

This would be you


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G7ifCtIquQ

[pbmax]

I would feel better about any diagnosis offered if the Doctor knew it was spelled “spatial” or “spatially”.

Spacial might put you between the Earth and Moon though.

[Bretsky]

If Gary was as unsuccessful as some of you suggest, how do you explain the fact that near or at the end of the year he had averaged a QB pressure in less than every 10 snaps? This was better than anyone in 2018, including Fackrell, who had 10 sacks.

Per Cheesehead TV:


Extrapolating from those 46 snaps the final 3 games to a season's snaps as a starter/regular you get some pretty good numbers.

I don't think this year really answered any questions about Gary. The Packers didn't use Gary because they didn't have to. They had a luxury teams don't always get with first round draft picks.



To me there are some easy responses. He was playing a lot of garbage time snaps, some against backups when the games are over. But with that being said, I saw flashes of little. Want to see an EDGE Rookie ? Watch film on Brian Burns. Remember a Packer coach noted he thought he was the best ED

To me, what is more telling, why did the coaching staff have so little confidence in him to play him so minimal. If he was a playmaker....they would have found spots for him to play on the key downs. Kyle Bloody Fackrell's snap count does not crush his. I don't care about the Smith brothers. If Gary was dominant all three of them would have been on the field nearly every pass down.

And If we drafted him as a luxury (which I clearly do not believe we did), then that was just plain stupid.

We have a shitload of needs on this team that we failed to address last year.

IF we could just have a do ever we could have used that pick to fill one of many

[pbmax]

I agree that his pressure rate is a positive indication.

But his usage rate is a negative. Coaches don’t trust something.

[George Cumby]

I agree that his pressure rate is a positive indication.

But his usage rate is a negative. Coaches don’t trust something.

His spacious awhereness.

[hoosier]

I agree that his pressure rate is a positive indication.

But his usage rate is a negative. Coaches don’t trust something.

Obviously his lack of spacial awareness is preventing him from becoming spetial--you know, a difference maker.

[Deputy Nutz]

To me there are some easy responses. He was playing a lot of garbage time snaps, some against backups when the games are over. But with that being said, I saw flashes of little. Want to see an EDGE Rookie ? Watch film on Brian Burns. Remember a Packer coach noted he thought he was the best ED

To me, what is more telling, why did the coaching staff have so little confidence in him to play him so minimal. If he was a playmaker....they would have found spots for him to play on the key downs. Kyle Bloody Fackrell's snap count does not crush his. I don't care about the Smith brothers. If Gary was dominant all three of them would have been on the field nearly every pass down.

And If we drafted him as a luxury (which I clearly do not believe we did), then that was just plain stupid.

We have a shitload of needs on this team that we failed to address last year.

IF we could just have a do ever we could have used that pick to fill one of many

Why are you so angry? Did you expect 3 tech/5 tech defensive lineman to just morph into a dominant outside linebacker? The Packers possibly stunted his growth this season sitting him behind the Smiths. You are complaining like the Packers are in a rebuild mode, when they ended the season in the NFC Championship Game. I recognize they could have drafted a receiver at 12. They didn't because they had over estimated the year two production from MVS, and the expected growth of some of the other younger receivers. Through all the draft prep I did, I never had the Packers taking a receiver with the 12 pick. I was aiming at edge rusher and inside linebacker with the 12th pick, and then possibly receiver, safety, or tackle with the 29th pick.

Now to really try to grasp why Gary didn't play as many snaps as he probably should have considering his athleticism and where he was drafted. Like most rookies he might have really struggled with the scheme along with the position change. The second reason is he had veterans a head of him. Say what you will about Frackrell but he had 10.5 sacks just a year ago. The Smiths where high profile talent that was brought in and they didn't disappoint. The last thing I can think of, is although he was healthy enough to play, a possible injury might have slowed his progress.

Regardless, Bretsky doesn't have to be so damn angry all the time, and finally Gary should be judged on his 3 year progression. I will have serious question marks if he is still only receiving 15% of the snaps in 2021. Either it's coaching, or Gute missed badly, and should be held accountable, but like a good GM he protected himself at the position by drafting high, and going after free agents.

[esoxx]

His spacious awhereness.

This is a specious argument.

[George Cumby]

This is a specious argument.

27

[Bretsky]

Why are you so angry? Did you expect 3 tech/5 tech defensive lineman to just morph into a dominant outside linebacker?

Now to really try to grasp why Gary didn't play as many snaps as he probably should have considering his athleticism and where he was drafted. Like most rookies he might have really struggled with the scheme along with the position change. The second reason is he had veterans a head of him. Say what you will about Frackrell but he had 10.5 sacks just a year ago. The Smiths where high profile talent that was brought in and they didn't disappoint. The last thing I can think of, is although he was healthy enough to play, a possible injury might have slowed his progress.

Regardless, Bretsky doesn't have to be so damn angry all the time, and finally Gary should be judged on his 3 year progression. I will have serious question marks if he is still only receiving 15% of the snaps in 2021. Either it's coaching, or Gute missed badly, and should be held accountable, but like a good GM he protected himself at the position by drafting high, and going after free agents.


ANGRY ? I'm STILL ANGRY that some asshat came into a gas station screaming GO BEARS after they just upset up out our infamous Packerrat Outing. That Asshat will not be named, but he should be forever condemned to ridicule. And maybe I'm ornery cause I'm all doped up from a knee replacement surgery 7 days ago.

So maybe you are right, maybe wrong. Playing the injury card...the lack of experience...the Smith brothers.....MAN....what an apologist. If you love Tarzan and loved him as a player at Michigan just say so. But I don't think you are saying that. And it's a good thing we don't babytreat the other producing draft picks like we do Gary. Because if we had to wait three ears for production from our better picks last year, we'd have been in deep shit. Pl.S. I'd want you as my NFL GM.


Cheers,
Bretsky

[pbmax]

Knee replacement surgery?

I remember when we were all young.

Well, most of us were.

Hope it goes well B. Get off those pain meds soon. :D


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51HrUpLvnuL.jpg

[Bossman641]

Guys giving up on Gary are probably the same guys who gave up on Nick Collins or Davante Adams. If he doesn't show progression next year sure? But to knock him for not getting more snaps on a team that spent huge money on two Olb's is insane.

[Radagast]

Using an honest and fair evaluation of the 2019/20 Packers should lead to a better 2020/21 Packer team.

Let's start with the 13 - 3 regular season Packer record. We all celebrated the wins, but few were dominating victories. I don't like to say they won ugly, but few style points were earned over the season. In fact, had KC's QB Mahomes played, the result could have been very different. With the exception of D. Adams, the WRs and TEs were unreliable. They caused Rodgers to have to scramble too often. Too much blame has been put on Coaches and Rodgers, when pass protection fell short. The bright star on offense was Aaron Jones.

The Packer Defense was a great improvement over the previous season. IMO, the weakest link was ILB. Martinez is just one player and can't do it all by himself. GB needs to trade for or acquire an ILB that can not just start , but Star on day one. Otherwise I feel that next season will see a more experienced GB defense.

GB's greatest needs are WR,ORT, and ILB. Correct these positions and GB will look and be a better team.

Blake Martinez needs a new contract, give him a good one.

I would not mind it if GB were to trade up in the next draft to get a great WR or OT.

[pbmax]

We all celebrated the wins, but few were dominating victories. I don't like to say they won ugly, but few style points were earned over the season. In fact, had KC's QB Mahomes played, the result could have been very different. .

Advanced analytics indicate that if Mahomes played versus the Packers, the chances greatly increase for the Packers to be 12-4 rather than 13-3.

[pbmax]

Guys giving up on Gary are probably the same guys who gave up on Nick Collins or Davante Adams. If he doesn't show progression next year sure? But to knock him for not getting more snaps on a team that spent huge money on two Olb's is insane.

Or Greg Jennings (Chad Jackson!).

This is known as the Brian Williams rule to me.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Or Greg Jennings (Chad Jackson!).

This is known as the Brian Williams rule to me.

Why you gotta bring him into this?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Brian_Williams_2011_Shankbone.JPG/220px-Brian_Williams_2011_Shankbone.JPG

[Deputy Nutz]

ANGRY ? I'm STILL ANGRY that some asshat came into a gas station screaming GO BEARS after they just upset up out our infamous Packerrat Outing. That Asshat will not be named, but he should be forever condemned to ridicule. And maybe I'm ornery cause I'm all doped up from a knee replacement surgery 7 days ago.

So maybe you are right, maybe wrong. Playing the injury card...the lack of experience...the Smith brothers.....MAN....what an apologist. If you love Tarzan and loved him as a player at Michigan just say so. But I don't think you are saying that. And it's a good thing we don't babytreat the other producing draft picks like we do Gary. Because if we had to wait three ears for production from our better picks last year, we'd have been in deep shit. Pl.S. I'd want you as my NFL GM.


Cheers,
Bretsky

I have always been indifferent to the Gary pick. The lack of production in college compared to his freak athletic ability has had me stumped. But when I look at film of him in college he always seems to do the right things with his technique and his awareness on the field. He just didn't make many plays. It wasn't a effort thing. I think this might have been an interesting year for his development as for the past 7 years of high school and college football he had the spotlight on him as the number one player in the country. It might have been nice for him to work at his craft in the darkness for once. I will be very aware and interested in his career going forward.

[George Cumby]

Advanced analytics indicate that if Mahomes played versus the Packers, the chances greatly increase for the Packers to be 12-4 rather than 13-3.

lol

[Radagast]

Perhaps the 54th SB is diverting attention from the Packers or fragmenting the larger picture. This is understandable and easily corrected.

Current offseason topics now include, but are not limited too:

The firing and replacement of the Defensive Backs Coach.

The firing and replacement of the Wide Receivers Coach.

A new contract for Blake Martinez.

Opinions on GB's first round selection in the upcoming 2020 NFL Draft. What position should GB look to draft? What College player/s would you like to see the Packers draft? Should GB trade up n the draft to get WR or OT?

What FAs should the Packers bid on? Should GB trade with another team for a wanted star player?

What changes/policies would you like to see the Packers make for 2020?

[MadtownPacker]

What makes you think anything here needs your correction? It’s SB bowl weekend, the also-rans always get forgotten. :lol:

[Radagast]

What makes you think anything here needs your correction? It’s SB bowl weekend, the also-rans always get forgotten. :lol:

I've come to expect low class behavior from you. You've managed to set a new low.

Shouldn't you be working at the dump. You can't find those throwaway specials by sitting on the couch and smoking dope.

[mraynrand]

I've come to expect low class behavior from you. You've managed to set a new low.

Shouldn't you be working at the dump.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you look down on the people who take care of your trash.

[mraynrand]

Let's start with the 13 - 3 regular season Packer record. We all celebrated the wins, but few were dominating victories.

So what? At the end of the season they clearly belonged right where they were. As 'ol scoops McGinn used to say: "you are what your record says." Very few teams sneak their way to a championship in the NFL. It is among the strictest of meritocracies.

BTW, I don't really recall you celebrating many victories. You seemed a reluctant, recalcitrant victor.

[hoosier]

He's a pathetic old fool who wishes he were an elitist. Shoulda been a Redskins fan

[Radagast]

He's a pathetic old fool who wishes he were an elitist. Shoulda been a Redskins fan

You and your fellow slugs would not know proper respect and civil behavior even if it walked up and punched you right in the nose. I'm glad I live in Virginia and not some backwater cornfield like Indiana.

You shoulda been a Colts fan.

[George Cumby]

You and your fellow slugs would not know proper respect and civil behavior even if it walked up and punched you right in the nose. I'm glad I live in Virginia and not some backwater cornfield like Indiana.

You shoulda been a Colts fan.

Nothing says "respect" like assault and battery.

I think Virginia is closer to Baltimore than Indiana, maybe YOU shoulda been a Colts fan.

[pbmax]

He's a pathetic old fool who wishes he were an elitist. Shoulda been a Redskins fan

I must only know the other end of Washington's fan base :lol:

[hoosier]

I must only know the other end of Washington's fan base :lol:

It is a diverse bunch, believe me, especially when you move out of the District and northern VA suburbs. George Preston Marshall's legacy still runs deep in the south.